On September 11 2014 11:28 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: [quote]
Even iNcontroL has hit 3K a few times recently, although he's usually more around 1.5-2K.
Also, some of the top tier Koreans barely get any viewers because they either stream on a shitty non-Twitch site, or their stream has no commentary/ barely any music. It seems that a lot more people prefer the more entertaining mid-level pros/ foreigners, that they can better relate to and interact with.
I don't know too much about Winter (I've watched his stream a few times), but he's very entertaining and interactive with his audience. He's also a good Random player and he provides commentary and analysis.
EDIT: And he also looks and sounds like Bo Burnham. lol.
This is always brought up as a defense of his very suspicious view pattern. It doesnt do a single thing to address how odd his numbers are. He could get his views for streaming naked in makeup while speaking for pig latin for all I care. But when he gets those views that are way higher than even a lot of non starcraft streamers at a time where people are either working or asleep (12 -6am EST), a dead chat (chats 1/10 as large are twice as active), and weird fluctuations of numbers (500 to 3000 in 10 minutes) then Im going to be suspicious.
One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
He himself said he was being view-botted by someone else at times, twitch does not ban for that reason because you can't tell if the person is view-botting themselves or if someone else is doing it.
If that would happen on a daily basis i am pretty sure he would get banned, so again: Why didn't he? People literally think he has now viewers whatsoever, how can he make over 4k on donations pretty much every month then? I guess this is also only fake? Absolutely ridiculous and i don't even watch him that often, but this bs has to stop (when i read things like this i am not surprised people don't stream into the sc2 scene)
On September 11 2014 12:12 CursOr wrote:
On September 11 2014 12:05 NovemberstOrm wrote:
On September 11 2014 12:01 The_Red_Viper wrote:
On September 11 2014 11:55 Apollo_Shards wrote: [quote]
This is always brought up as a defense of his very suspicious view pattern. It doesnt do a single thing to address how odd his numbers are. He could get his views for streaming naked in makeup while speaking for pig latin for all I care. But when he gets those views that are way higher than even a lot of non starcraft streamers at a time where people are either working or asleep (12 -6am EST), a dead chat (chats 1/10 as large are twice as active), and weird fluctuations of numbers (500 to 3000 in 10 minutes) then Im going to be suspicious.
One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
He himself said he was being view-botted by someone else at times, twitch does not ban for that reason because you can't tell if the person is view-botting themselves or if someone else is doing it.
The guy is a great streamer IMO. No one else talks that much while they are playing. If he doesn't actually have that many viewers, he certainly deserves some, and I don't really care if some are botted. I fail to see why people get so heated.
The only reason this rumor is still in the room is cause people think he doesn't deserve it. Whenever he is brought up anywhere his "haters" will keep spreading this lie and new people will pick it up as a fact. Obama could say he doesn't bot and people still would think he does.
i'm not saying anything bad just speaking what i understand from the situation
Yeah i see, the problem is that people keep refering to "he said it himself". AFAIK he said it happened at the beginning a few times. These "few times" are the source for pretty much all the haters out there, without any context. To be fair, maybe he chanmaned his way into the scene, i don't know and nobody else does i guess. But at this point i just don't see how he could do it without twitch reacting to it. Incontrol said on the last unfiltered episode that his "connections" at twitch said they don't see anything wrong with winter and he seems to be legit.
On September 11 2014 12:25 Apollo_Shards wrote:
On September 11 2014 12:01 The_Red_Viper wrote:
On September 11 2014 11:55 Apollo_Shards wrote:
On September 11 2014 11:28 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On September 11 2014 08:07 Dingodile wrote:
On September 11 2014 07:13 SuperHofmann wrote: [quote] [...] - Progamers who streams never reach 3k viewers. INnoVation, Jaedong, Grubby, Stephano, Snute, no one of these. But he can, everytime (EVERYTIME) he streams. Mh? [...]
Everybody knows it
Wrong, as far I know Grubby and Stephano hit 3k very often this year. Stephano at good days 4,5k. Grubby could have always 3k but he often choices bad times to stream (very often time clash with WCS EU/NA etc).
Even iNcontroL has hit 3K a few times recently, although he's usually more around 1.5-2K.
Also, some of the top tier Koreans barely get any viewers because they either stream on a shitty non-Twitch site, or their stream has no commentary/ barely any music. It seems that a lot more people prefer the more entertaining mid-level pros/ foreigners, that they can better relate to and interact with.
I don't know too much about Winter (I've watched his stream a few times), but he's very entertaining and interactive with his audience. He's also a good Random player and he provides commentary and analysis.
EDIT: And he also looks and sounds like Bo Burnham. lol.
This is always brought up as a defense of his very suspicious view pattern. It doesnt do a single thing to address how odd his numbers are. He could get his views for streaming naked in makeup while speaking for pig latin for all I care. But when he gets those views that are way higher than even a lot of non starcraft streamers at a time where people are either working or asleep (12 -6am EST), a dead chat (chats 1/10 as large are twice as active), and weird fluctuations of numbers (500 to 3000 in 10 minutes) then Im going to be suspicious.
One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
Well it woudnt be true.
Yeah i am sure everything you say is automatically true, if someone denys your authority for any specific topic he has to be wrong. Nice to know random user on the internet.
Ok what part did I say was wrong.
I don't have to prove you are wrong, you first have to prove your "points". But i already see there is no way someone can argue with you, you are one of those fanatics who will keep hating no matter what. Read my comment you quoted and try to go from there if you really want though...
Point 2 http://imgur.com/uVkJHk9 - inactive chat, look at someone with half the viewers and see how active it is. I tried doing the same thing for a CS guy who had 1700 viewers but I lost my time marks because the chat was so active.
WTF are you even trying to say with these pictures? I guess Kespa Cup does viewbot like crazy too then? You are absolutely ridiculous, pls answer my question (cause you ignored it the last few times): Why didn't he get banned yet?
On September 11 2014 11:55 Apollo_Shards wrote: [quote]
This is always brought up as a defense of his very suspicious view pattern. It doesnt do a single thing to address how odd his numbers are. He could get his views for streaming naked in makeup while speaking for pig latin for all I care. But when he gets those views that are way higher than even a lot of non starcraft streamers at a time where people are either working or asleep (12 -6am EST), a dead chat (chats 1/10 as large are twice as active), and weird fluctuations of numbers (500 to 3000 in 10 minutes) then Im going to be suspicious.
One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
He himself said he was being view-botted by someone else at times, twitch does not ban for that reason because you can't tell if the person is view-botting themselves or if someone else is doing it.
If that would happen on a daily basis i am pretty sure he would get banned, so again: Why didn't he? People literally think he has now viewers whatsoever, how can he make over 4k on donations pretty much every month then? I guess this is also only fake? Absolutely ridiculous and i don't even watch him that often, but this bs has to stop (when i read things like this i am not surprised people don't stream into the sc2 scene)
On September 11 2014 12:12 CursOr wrote:
On September 11 2014 12:05 NovemberstOrm wrote:
On September 11 2014 12:01 The_Red_Viper wrote: [quote] One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
He himself said he was being view-botted by someone else at times, twitch does not ban for that reason because you can't tell if the person is view-botting themselves or if someone else is doing it.
The guy is a great streamer IMO. No one else talks that much while they are playing. If he doesn't actually have that many viewers, he certainly deserves some, and I don't really care if some are botted. I fail to see why people get so heated.
The only reason this rumor is still in the room is cause people think he doesn't deserve it. Whenever he is brought up anywhere his "haters" will keep spreading this lie and new people will pick it up as a fact. Obama could say he doesn't bot and people still would think he does.
i'm not saying anything bad just speaking what i understand from the situation
Yeah i see, the problem is that people keep refering to "he said it himself". AFAIK he said it happened at the beginning a few times. These "few times" are the source for pretty much all the haters out there, without any context. To be fair, maybe he chanmaned his way into the scene, i don't know and nobody else does i guess. But at this point i just don't see how he could do it without twitch reacting to it. Incontrol said on the last unfiltered episode that his "connections" at twitch said they don't see anything wrong with winter and he seems to be legit.
On September 11 2014 08:07 Dingodile wrote: [quote] Wrong, as far I know Grubby and Stephano hit 3k very often this year. Stephano at good days 4,5k. Grubby could have always 3k but he often choices bad times to stream (very often time clash with WCS EU/NA etc).
Even iNcontroL has hit 3K a few times recently, although he's usually more around 1.5-2K.
Also, some of the top tier Koreans barely get any viewers because they either stream on a shitty non-Twitch site, or their stream has no commentary/ barely any music. It seems that a lot more people prefer the more entertaining mid-level pros/ foreigners, that they can better relate to and interact with.
I don't know too much about Winter (I've watched his stream a few times), but he's very entertaining and interactive with his audience. He's also a good Random player and he provides commentary and analysis.
EDIT: And he also looks and sounds like Bo Burnham. lol.
This is always brought up as a defense of his very suspicious view pattern. It doesnt do a single thing to address how odd his numbers are. He could get his views for streaming naked in makeup while speaking for pig latin for all I care. But when he gets those views that are way higher than even a lot of non starcraft streamers at a time where people are either working or asleep (12 -6am EST), a dead chat (chats 1/10 as large are twice as active), and weird fluctuations of numbers (500 to 3000 in 10 minutes) then Im going to be suspicious.
One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
Well it woudnt be true.
Yeah i am sure everything you say is automatically true, if someone denys your authority for any specific topic he has to be wrong. Nice to know random user on the internet.
Ok what part did I say was wrong.
I don't have to prove you are wrong, you first have to prove your "points". But i already see there is no way someone can argue with you, you are one of those fanatics who will keep hating no matter what. Read my comment you quoted and try to go from there if you really want though...
Point 2 http://imgur.com/uVkJHk9 - inactive chat, look at someone with half the viewers and see how active it is. I tried doing the same thing for a CS guy who had 1700 viewers but I lost my time marks because the chat was so active.
This guy is so ugly that he doesn't stop viewbot during one of the most important event in the year. Zero passion for him.
Obviosly also the donations are fake. I'm imaging when he think "mmmh... Ok... No real viewers today... Ok! Let's give myself same fake moneys and I'll be a cool player!"
...
Yes i am sure he fakes them, that makes perfectly sense to me. Obviously he doesn't need real money to support himself now that he afaik streams fulltime.
Thank you again Conti for putting the work into the post, the numbers and fact checking as always. I know there are plenty of people who don't like me, my stream, my content, or anything surrounding it. Honestly I would rarely watch my own stream, I prefer Mingun, Polt, Innovation, etc. I do enjoy streaming and talking with people who enjoy my stream, which is why I've done it for almost 3 years.
I don't deserve viewers more than Polt or Innovation, I don't have a higher level or skill or better content. Honestly all I have is brute force and an ability to talk for hours on end. Conti pointed out earlier some major viewer jumps in both December and April of these past few months.
December(jump from about 200 avg viewers to 500): I finished school for the semester about a week into December. From that point I streamed 233 hours that month(about 10 hours a day after the first week), only taking a day off for Christmas. This was a time when there were very few tournaments and no WCS, so a lot of the time I was able to be on the front page of starcraft twitch, and I was lucky enough to pick up a twitch partnership and also a subscriber button.
April(jump from about 600 to 1300 viewers): I went back to school for Winter semester, so I could not stream as much, as consistently or for the length of time that I did over December break. WCS, many tournaments and other things started back up again for the year, so I wasn't able to see any real growth besides subscribers/followers throughout.
2 things lined up again after. First, I finished school in mid April, and second I fixed my ISP issues. For over a year I had an issue with my ISP where it would go offline for 5-15 seconds at a time every 1-2 hours, taking the stream offline and usually 25-40% of my viewers with it. I finally was able to work out settings that would avoid most of these reconnects and instead of continually dropping and gaining viewers throughout the night I was able to build. Since I was off school again I streamed for 25 days in a row between mid april and early May, once again not with a huge display of skill or a tournament win, just lucky enough to be near the top of twitch and pick up some viewers that might for one reason or another be interested in other streams. On top of that I was featured on teamliquid near the very end of the month which helped a bit more as well.
This is what happened to increase my viewers. I stream in a way that allows me to stream for long periods of time, which is usually smurfing. I don't have the skill or stamina to play at my top level and commentate for the 8+ hours that I stream at, and I don't pretend to be competitive or an authority on strategy or the game. I have content that some people like to watch, and I like interacting with those people. There is a base out there of people just looking for someone to talk about the game, without a regard to being a top pro, which is what makes people like Totalbiscuit so entertaining. I listened to WCRadio shows about lore and dungeons even though I was exclusively a competitive PvP player back in World of Warcraft because people talking is entertaining.
As for social media metrics which has been pointed out before, I just recently became anywhere close to active. My facebook only has 1700likes, my twitter only 1600. Another point here, I lost access to my previous twitter account(email issues) @WinterStarcraft last year when I had around 500 followers. That twitter account now has almost 450 more followers(with 0 tweets since September), while the twitter account I created in December to replace it @StarcraftWinter has 1600. My youtube channel has gained over 2500 subscibers in the past 2 months while being under 2000 for almost 2 years. I probably could do more with social media but honestly I've never really been involved.
As for the claims of viewbots, yes they have happened on my stream just like other streams all across twitch. I stream for more than most streamers as I'm able to commit so much time, so I am stuck with them proportionally more often. As for on a regular basis, I have doubled my subscriber count from 250-500 in the past 6-8 weeks along with a nearly equal increase in donations and follows as well. If all of these things are botted that would be extremely demoralizing, just like being repeatedly accused of it.
I don't feel entitled to viewers, I don't even really find my own content particularly entertaining or educational. All I do is produce enough of that content on a regular basis that enough people seemed to be interested in to allow me to comfortably make it a full time career. Viewbots don't pay my bills, I dont run ads on my stream. If you don't enjoy my content, I understand. If you don't like me, I definitely understand that as well. Please don't feel obligated to defend me if you enjoy the stream, constructive criticism is always preferred. Thanks for reading. Also sorry Conti for hijacking your thread.
TL;DR: I just sit at home and talk at internet people a lot.
This is a quote from the May thread of the exact same context being accused by Totalbiscuit for similar reasons. The reason for the spike in recent viewers has been a premium partnership with Twitch(the first sc2 streamer in over a year to get one, after being questioned and cleared for viewbots), as well as front page twitch.tv featuring which I use to promote the game and much better players than me. Accuse me all you'd like, but I love this game and I would love for more people to play it, that is all I want.
On September 11 2014 11:28 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: [quote]
Even iNcontroL has hit 3K a few times recently, although he's usually more around 1.5-2K.
Also, some of the top tier Koreans barely get any viewers because they either stream on a shitty non-Twitch site, or their stream has no commentary/ barely any music. It seems that a lot more people prefer the more entertaining mid-level pros/ foreigners, that they can better relate to and interact with.
I don't know too much about Winter (I've watched his stream a few times), but he's very entertaining and interactive with his audience. He's also a good Random player and he provides commentary and analysis.
EDIT: And he also looks and sounds like Bo Burnham. lol.
This is always brought up as a defense of his very suspicious view pattern. It doesnt do a single thing to address how odd his numbers are. He could get his views for streaming naked in makeup while speaking for pig latin for all I care. But when he gets those views that are way higher than even a lot of non starcraft streamers at a time where people are either working or asleep (12 -6am EST), a dead chat (chats 1/10 as large are twice as active), and weird fluctuations of numbers (500 to 3000 in 10 minutes) then Im going to be suspicious.
One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
He himself said he was being view-botted by someone else at times, twitch does not ban for that reason because you can't tell if the person is view-botting themselves or if someone else is doing it.
If that would happen on a daily basis i am pretty sure he would get banned, so again: Why didn't he? People literally think he has now viewers whatsoever, how can he make over 4k on donations pretty much every month then? I guess this is also only fake? Absolutely ridiculous and i don't even watch him that often, but this bs has to stop (when i read things like this i am not surprised people don't stream into the sc2 scene)
On September 11 2014 12:12 CursOr wrote:
On September 11 2014 12:05 NovemberstOrm wrote:
On September 11 2014 12:01 The_Red_Viper wrote:
On September 11 2014 11:55 Apollo_Shards wrote: [quote]
This is always brought up as a defense of his very suspicious view pattern. It doesnt do a single thing to address how odd his numbers are. He could get his views for streaming naked in makeup while speaking for pig latin for all I care. But when he gets those views that are way higher than even a lot of non starcraft streamers at a time where people are either working or asleep (12 -6am EST), a dead chat (chats 1/10 as large are twice as active), and weird fluctuations of numbers (500 to 3000 in 10 minutes) then Im going to be suspicious.
One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
He himself said he was being view-botted by someone else at times, twitch does not ban for that reason because you can't tell if the person is view-botting themselves or if someone else is doing it.
The guy is a great streamer IMO. No one else talks that much while they are playing. If he doesn't actually have that many viewers, he certainly deserves some, and I don't really care if some are botted. I fail to see why people get so heated.
The only reason this rumor is still in the room is cause people think he doesn't deserve it. Whenever he is brought up anywhere his "haters" will keep spreading this lie and new people will pick it up as a fact. Obama could say he doesn't bot and people still would think he does.
i'm not saying anything bad just speaking what i understand from the situation
Yeah i see, the problem is that people keep refering to "he said it himself". AFAIK he said it happened at the beginning a few times. These "few times" are the source for pretty much all the haters out there, without any context. To be fair, maybe he chanmaned his way into the scene, i don't know and nobody else does i guess. But at this point i just don't see how he could do it without twitch reacting to it. Incontrol said on the last unfiltered episode that his "connections" at twitch said they don't see anything wrong with winter and he seems to be legit.
On September 11 2014 07:13 SuperHofmann wrote: [quote] [...] - Progamers who streams never reach 3k viewers. INnoVation, Jaedong, Grubby, Stephano, Snute, no one of these. But he can, everytime (EVERYTIME) he streams. Mh? [...]
Everybody knows it
Wrong, as far I know Grubby and Stephano hit 3k very often this year. Stephano at good days 4,5k. Grubby could have always 3k but he often choices bad times to stream (very often time clash with WCS EU/NA etc).
Even iNcontroL has hit 3K a few times recently, although he's usually more around 1.5-2K.
Also, some of the top tier Koreans barely get any viewers because they either stream on a shitty non-Twitch site, or their stream has no commentary/ barely any music. It seems that a lot more people prefer the more entertaining mid-level pros/ foreigners, that they can better relate to and interact with.
I don't know too much about Winter (I've watched his stream a few times), but he's very entertaining and interactive with his audience. He's also a good Random player and he provides commentary and analysis.
EDIT: And he also looks and sounds like Bo Burnham. lol.
This is always brought up as a defense of his very suspicious view pattern. It doesnt do a single thing to address how odd his numbers are. He could get his views for streaming naked in makeup while speaking for pig latin for all I care. But when he gets those views that are way higher than even a lot of non starcraft streamers at a time where people are either working or asleep (12 -6am EST), a dead chat (chats 1/10 as large are twice as active), and weird fluctuations of numbers (500 to 3000 in 10 minutes) then Im going to be suspicious.
One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
Well it woudnt be true.
Yeah i am sure everything you say is automatically true, if someone denys your authority for any specific topic he has to be wrong. Nice to know random user on the internet.
Ok what part did I say was wrong.
I don't have to prove you are wrong, you first have to prove your "points". But i already see there is no way someone can argue with you, you are one of those fanatics who will keep hating no matter what. Read my comment you quoted and try to go from there if you really want though...
Point 2 http://imgur.com/uVkJHk9 - inactive chat, look at someone with half the viewers and see how active it is. I tried doing the same thing for a CS guy who had 1700 viewers but I lost my time marks because the chat was so active.
On September 11 2014 11:55 Apollo_Shards wrote: [quote]
This is always brought up as a defense of his very suspicious view pattern. It doesnt do a single thing to address how odd his numbers are. He could get his views for streaming naked in makeup while speaking for pig latin for all I care. But when he gets those views that are way higher than even a lot of non starcraft streamers at a time where people are either working or asleep (12 -6am EST), a dead chat (chats 1/10 as large are twice as active), and weird fluctuations of numbers (500 to 3000 in 10 minutes) then Im going to be suspicious.
One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
He himself said he was being view-botted by someone else at times, twitch does not ban for that reason because you can't tell if the person is view-botting themselves or if someone else is doing it.
If that would happen on a daily basis i am pretty sure he would get banned, so again: Why didn't he? People literally think he has now viewers whatsoever, how can he make over 4k on donations pretty much every month then? I guess this is also only fake? Absolutely ridiculous and i don't even watch him that often, but this bs has to stop (when i read things like this i am not surprised people don't stream into the sc2 scene)
On September 11 2014 12:12 CursOr wrote:
On September 11 2014 12:05 NovemberstOrm wrote:
On September 11 2014 12:01 The_Red_Viper wrote: [quote] One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
He himself said he was being view-botted by someone else at times, twitch does not ban for that reason because you can't tell if the person is view-botting themselves or if someone else is doing it.
The guy is a great streamer IMO. No one else talks that much while they are playing. If he doesn't actually have that many viewers, he certainly deserves some, and I don't really care if some are botted. I fail to see why people get so heated.
The only reason this rumor is still in the room is cause people think he doesn't deserve it. Whenever he is brought up anywhere his "haters" will keep spreading this lie and new people will pick it up as a fact. Obama could say he doesn't bot and people still would think he does.
i'm not saying anything bad just speaking what i understand from the situation
Yeah i see, the problem is that people keep refering to "he said it himself". AFAIK he said it happened at the beginning a few times. These "few times" are the source for pretty much all the haters out there, without any context. To be fair, maybe he chanmaned his way into the scene, i don't know and nobody else does i guess. But at this point i just don't see how he could do it without twitch reacting to it. Incontrol said on the last unfiltered episode that his "connections" at twitch said they don't see anything wrong with winter and he seems to be legit.
On September 11 2014 08:07 Dingodile wrote: [quote] Wrong, as far I know Grubby and Stephano hit 3k very often this year. Stephano at good days 4,5k. Grubby could have always 3k but he often choices bad times to stream (very often time clash with WCS EU/NA etc).
Even iNcontroL has hit 3K a few times recently, although he's usually more around 1.5-2K.
Also, some of the top tier Koreans barely get any viewers because they either stream on a shitty non-Twitch site, or their stream has no commentary/ barely any music. It seems that a lot more people prefer the more entertaining mid-level pros/ foreigners, that they can better relate to and interact with.
I don't know too much about Winter (I've watched his stream a few times), but he's very entertaining and interactive with his audience. He's also a good Random player and he provides commentary and analysis.
EDIT: And he also looks and sounds like Bo Burnham. lol.
This is always brought up as a defense of his very suspicious view pattern. It doesnt do a single thing to address how odd his numbers are. He could get his views for streaming naked in makeup while speaking for pig latin for all I care. But when he gets those views that are way higher than even a lot of non starcraft streamers at a time where people are either working or asleep (12 -6am EST), a dead chat (chats 1/10 as large are twice as active), and weird fluctuations of numbers (500 to 3000 in 10 minutes) then Im going to be suspicious.
One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
Well it woudnt be true.
Yeah i am sure everything you say is automatically true, if someone denys your authority for any specific topic he has to be wrong. Nice to know random user on the internet.
Ok what part did I say was wrong.
I don't have to prove you are wrong, you first have to prove your "points". But i already see there is no way someone can argue with you, you are one of those fanatics who will keep hating no matter what. Read my comment you quoted and try to go from there if you really want though...
Point 2 http://imgur.com/uVkJHk9 - inactive chat, look at someone with half the viewers and see how active it is. I tried doing the same thing for a CS guy who had 1700 viewers but I lost my time marks because the chat was so active.
You realize literally every major twitch stream has this same occurence. I challenge you to go to Destiny, Grubby, Demuslim, Lirik, Sodapoppin etc, and tell me that twitch viewer numbers are always consistent and reliable and useful for a good photoshop. If that is your evidence than you might want to try a somalian court.
On September 11 2014 12:01 The_Red_Viper wrote: [quote] One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
He himself said he was being view-botted by someone else at times, twitch does not ban for that reason because you can't tell if the person is view-botting themselves or if someone else is doing it.
If that would happen on a daily basis i am pretty sure he would get banned, so again: Why didn't he? People literally think he has now viewers whatsoever, how can he make over 4k on donations pretty much every month then? I guess this is also only fake? Absolutely ridiculous and i don't even watch him that often, but this bs has to stop (when i read things like this i am not surprised people don't stream into the sc2 scene)
On September 11 2014 12:12 CursOr wrote:
On September 11 2014 12:05 NovemberstOrm wrote: [quote] He himself said he was being view-botted by someone else at times, twitch does not ban for that reason because you can't tell if the person is view-botting themselves or if someone else is doing it.
The guy is a great streamer IMO. No one else talks that much while they are playing. If he doesn't actually have that many viewers, he certainly deserves some, and I don't really care if some are botted. I fail to see why people get so heated.
The only reason this rumor is still in the room is cause people think he doesn't deserve it. Whenever he is brought up anywhere his "haters" will keep spreading this lie and new people will pick it up as a fact. Obama could say he doesn't bot and people still would think he does.
i'm not saying anything bad just speaking what i understand from the situation
Yeah i see, the problem is that people keep refering to "he said it himself". AFAIK he said it happened at the beginning a few times. These "few times" are the source for pretty much all the haters out there, without any context. To be fair, maybe he chanmaned his way into the scene, i don't know and nobody else does i guess. But at this point i just don't see how he could do it without twitch reacting to it. Incontrol said on the last unfiltered episode that his "connections" at twitch said they don't see anything wrong with winter and he seems to be legit.
On September 11 2014 11:28 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: [quote]
Even iNcontroL has hit 3K a few times recently, although he's usually more around 1.5-2K.
Also, some of the top tier Koreans barely get any viewers because they either stream on a shitty non-Twitch site, or their stream has no commentary/ barely any music. It seems that a lot more people prefer the more entertaining mid-level pros/ foreigners, that they can better relate to and interact with.
I don't know too much about Winter (I've watched his stream a few times), but he's very entertaining and interactive with his audience. He's also a good Random player and he provides commentary and analysis.
EDIT: And he also looks and sounds like Bo Burnham. lol.
This is always brought up as a defense of his very suspicious view pattern. It doesnt do a single thing to address how odd his numbers are. He could get his views for streaming naked in makeup while speaking for pig latin for all I care. But when he gets those views that are way higher than even a lot of non starcraft streamers at a time where people are either working or asleep (12 -6am EST), a dead chat (chats 1/10 as large are twice as active), and weird fluctuations of numbers (500 to 3000 in 10 minutes) then Im going to be suspicious.
One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
Well it woudnt be true.
Yeah i am sure everything you say is automatically true, if someone denys your authority for any specific topic he has to be wrong. Nice to know random user on the internet.
Ok what part did I say was wrong.
I don't have to prove you are wrong, you first have to prove your "points". But i already see there is no way someone can argue with you, you are one of those fanatics who will keep hating no matter what. Read my comment you quoted and try to go from there if you really want though...
Point 2 http://imgur.com/uVkJHk9 - inactive chat, look at someone with half the viewers and see how active it is. I tried doing the same thing for a CS guy who had 1700 viewers but I lost my time marks because the chat was so active.
You realize literally every major twitch stream has this same occurence. I challenge you to go to Destiny, Grubby, Demuslim, Lirik, Sodapoppin etc, and tell me that twitch viewer numbers are always consistent and reliable and useful for a good photoshop. If that is your evidence than you might want to try a somalian court.
On September 11 2014 12:05 NovemberstOrm wrote: [quote] He himself said he was being view-botted by someone else at times, twitch does not ban for that reason because you can't tell if the person is view-botting themselves or if someone else is doing it.
If that would happen on a daily basis i am pretty sure he would get banned, so again: Why didn't he? People literally think he has now viewers whatsoever, how can he make over 4k on donations pretty much every month then? I guess this is also only fake? Absolutely ridiculous and i don't even watch him that often, but this bs has to stop (when i read things like this i am not surprised people don't stream into the sc2 scene)
On September 11 2014 12:12 CursOr wrote: [quote] The guy is a great streamer IMO. No one else talks that much while they are playing. If he doesn't actually have that many viewers, he certainly deserves some, and I don't really care if some are botted. I fail to see why people get so heated.
The only reason this rumor is still in the room is cause people think he doesn't deserve it. Whenever he is brought up anywhere his "haters" will keep spreading this lie and new people will pick it up as a fact. Obama could say he doesn't bot and people still would think he does.
i'm not saying anything bad just speaking what i understand from the situation
Yeah i see, the problem is that people keep refering to "he said it himself". AFAIK he said it happened at the beginning a few times. These "few times" are the source for pretty much all the haters out there, without any context. To be fair, maybe he chanmaned his way into the scene, i don't know and nobody else does i guess. But at this point i just don't see how he could do it without twitch reacting to it. Incontrol said on the last unfiltered episode that his "connections" at twitch said they don't see anything wrong with winter and he seems to be legit.
On September 11 2014 11:55 Apollo_Shards wrote: [quote]
This is always brought up as a defense of his very suspicious view pattern. It doesnt do a single thing to address how odd his numbers are. He could get his views for streaming naked in makeup while speaking for pig latin for all I care. But when he gets those views that are way higher than even a lot of non starcraft streamers at a time where people are either working or asleep (12 -6am EST), a dead chat (chats 1/10 as large are twice as active), and weird fluctuations of numbers (500 to 3000 in 10 minutes) then Im going to be suspicious.
One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
Well it woudnt be true.
Yeah i am sure everything you say is automatically true, if someone denys your authority for any specific topic he has to be wrong. Nice to know random user on the internet.
Ok what part did I say was wrong.
I don't have to prove you are wrong, you first have to prove your "points". But i already see there is no way someone can argue with you, you are one of those fanatics who will keep hating no matter what. Read my comment you quoted and try to go from there if you really want though...
Point 2 http://imgur.com/uVkJHk9 - inactive chat, look at someone with half the viewers and see how active it is. I tried doing the same thing for a CS guy who had 1700 viewers but I lost my time marks because the chat was so active.
You realize literally every major twitch stream has this same occurence. I challenge you to go to Destiny, Grubby, Demuslim, Lirik, Sodapoppin etc, and tell me that twitch viewer numbers are always consistent and reliable and useful for a good photoshop. If that is your evidence than you might want to try a somalian court.
Are you sure youre talking to the right person?
I may have misinterpreted your message, but I do get dozens of messages every day claiming the random drops in viewer counts that happen across twitch are indication of bots on my channel instead of twitch being twitch on every channel, and was unfairly biased by the volume of those complaints, I apologize.
On September 11 2014 12:12 The_Red_Viper wrote: [quote] If that would happen on a daily basis i am pretty sure he would get banned, so again: Why didn't he? People literally think he has now viewers whatsoever, how can he make over 4k on donations pretty much every month then? I guess this is also only fake? Absolutely ridiculous and i don't even watch him that often, but this bs has to stop (when i read things like this i am not surprised people don't stream into the sc2 scene)
[quote] The only reason this rumor is still in the room is cause people think he doesn't deserve it. Whenever he is brought up anywhere his "haters" will keep spreading this lie and new people will pick it up as a fact. Obama could say he doesn't bot and people still would think he does.
i'm not saying anything bad just speaking what i understand from the situation
Yeah i see, the problem is that people keep refering to "he said it himself". AFAIK he said it happened at the beginning a few times. These "few times" are the source for pretty much all the haters out there, without any context. To be fair, maybe he chanmaned his way into the scene, i don't know and nobody else does i guess. But at this point i just don't see how he could do it without twitch reacting to it. Incontrol said on the last unfiltered episode that his "connections" at twitch said they don't see anything wrong with winter and he seems to be legit.
On September 11 2014 12:01 The_Red_Viper wrote: [quote] One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
Well it woudnt be true.
Yeah i am sure everything you say is automatically true, if someone denys your authority for any specific topic he has to be wrong. Nice to know random user on the internet.
Ok what part did I say was wrong.
I don't have to prove you are wrong, you first have to prove your "points". But i already see there is no way someone can argue with you, you are one of those fanatics who will keep hating no matter what. Read my comment you quoted and try to go from there if you really want though...
Point 2 http://imgur.com/uVkJHk9 - inactive chat, look at someone with half the viewers and see how active it is. I tried doing the same thing for a CS guy who had 1700 viewers but I lost my time marks because the chat was so active.
You realize literally every major twitch stream has this same occurence. I challenge you to go to Destiny, Grubby, Demuslim, Lirik, Sodapoppin etc, and tell me that twitch viewer numbers are always consistent and reliable and useful for a good photoshop. If that is your evidence than you might want to try a somalian court.
Are you sure youre talking to the right person?
I may have misinterpreted your message, but I do get dozens of messages every day claiming the random drops in viewer counts that happen across twitch are indication of bots on my channel instead of twitch being twitch on every channel, and was unfairly biased by the volume of those complaints, I apologize.
On September 11 2014 12:05 NovemberstOrm wrote: [quote] He himself said he was being view-botted by someone else at times, twitch does not ban for that reason because you can't tell if the person is view-botting themselves or if someone else is doing it.
If that would happen on a daily basis i am pretty sure he would get banned, so again: Why didn't he? People literally think he has now viewers whatsoever, how can he make over 4k on donations pretty much every month then? I guess this is also only fake? Absolutely ridiculous and i don't even watch him that often, but this bs has to stop (when i read things like this i am not surprised people don't stream into the sc2 scene)
On September 11 2014 12:12 CursOr wrote: [quote] The guy is a great streamer IMO. No one else talks that much while they are playing. If he doesn't actually have that many viewers, he certainly deserves some, and I don't really care if some are botted. I fail to see why people get so heated.
The only reason this rumor is still in the room is cause people think he doesn't deserve it. Whenever he is brought up anywhere his "haters" will keep spreading this lie and new people will pick it up as a fact. Obama could say he doesn't bot and people still would think he does.
i'm not saying anything bad just speaking what i understand from the situation
Yeah i see, the problem is that people keep refering to "he said it himself". AFAIK he said it happened at the beginning a few times. These "few times" are the source for pretty much all the haters out there, without any context. To be fair, maybe he chanmaned his way into the scene, i don't know and nobody else does i guess. But at this point i just don't see how he could do it without twitch reacting to it. Incontrol said on the last unfiltered episode that his "connections" at twitch said they don't see anything wrong with winter and he seems to be legit.
On September 11 2014 11:55 Apollo_Shards wrote: [quote]
This is always brought up as a defense of his very suspicious view pattern. It doesnt do a single thing to address how odd his numbers are. He could get his views for streaming naked in makeup while speaking for pig latin for all I care. But when he gets those views that are way higher than even a lot of non starcraft streamers at a time where people are either working or asleep (12 -6am EST), a dead chat (chats 1/10 as large are twice as active), and weird fluctuations of numbers (500 to 3000 in 10 minutes) then Im going to be suspicious.
One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
Well it woudnt be true.
Yeah i am sure everything you say is automatically true, if someone denys your authority for any specific topic he has to be wrong. Nice to know random user on the internet.
Ok what part did I say was wrong.
I don't have to prove you are wrong, you first have to prove your "points". But i already see there is no way someone can argue with you, you are one of those fanatics who will keep hating no matter what. Read my comment you quoted and try to go from there if you really want though...
Point 2 http://imgur.com/uVkJHk9 - inactive chat, look at someone with half the viewers and see how active it is. I tried doing the same thing for a CS guy who had 1700 viewers but I lost my time marks because the chat was so active.
You realize literally every major twitch stream has this same occurence. I challenge you to go to Destiny, Grubby, Demuslim, Lirik, Sodapoppin etc, and tell me that twitch viewer numbers are always consistent and reliable and useful for a good photoshop. If that is your evidence than you might want to try a somalian court.
Are you sure youre talking to the right person?
I think he's just replying to the general dialogue. It's pretty obvious who his response is aimed at, based on context.
On September 11 2014 12:12 The_Red_Viper wrote: [quote] If that would happen on a daily basis i am pretty sure he would get banned, so again: Why didn't he? People literally think he has now viewers whatsoever, how can he make over 4k on donations pretty much every month then? I guess this is also only fake? Absolutely ridiculous and i don't even watch him that often, but this bs has to stop (when i read things like this i am not surprised people don't stream into the sc2 scene)
[quote] The only reason this rumor is still in the room is cause people think he doesn't deserve it. Whenever he is brought up anywhere his "haters" will keep spreading this lie and new people will pick it up as a fact. Obama could say he doesn't bot and people still would think he does.
i'm not saying anything bad just speaking what i understand from the situation
Yeah i see, the problem is that people keep refering to "he said it himself". AFAIK he said it happened at the beginning a few times. These "few times" are the source for pretty much all the haters out there, without any context. To be fair, maybe he chanmaned his way into the scene, i don't know and nobody else does i guess. But at this point i just don't see how he could do it without twitch reacting to it. Incontrol said on the last unfiltered episode that his "connections" at twitch said they don't see anything wrong with winter and he seems to be legit.
On September 11 2014 12:01 The_Red_Viper wrote: [quote] One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
Well it woudnt be true.
Yeah i am sure everything you say is automatically true, if someone denys your authority for any specific topic he has to be wrong. Nice to know random user on the internet.
Ok what part did I say was wrong.
I don't have to prove you are wrong, you first have to prove your "points". But i already see there is no way someone can argue with you, you are one of those fanatics who will keep hating no matter what. Read my comment you quoted and try to go from there if you really want though...
Point 2 http://imgur.com/uVkJHk9 - inactive chat, look at someone with half the viewers and see how active it is. I tried doing the same thing for a CS guy who had 1700 viewers but I lost my time marks because the chat was so active.
You realize literally every major twitch stream has this same occurence. I challenge you to go to Destiny, Grubby, Demuslim, Lirik, Sodapoppin etc, and tell me that twitch viewer numbers are always consistent and reliable and useful for a good photoshop. If that is your evidence than you might want to try a somalian court.
Are you sure youre talking to the right person?
I think he's just replying to the general dialogue. It's pretty obvious who his response is aimed at, based on context.
On September 11 2014 04:54 Nirel wrote: Who is winter? I keep seeing his stream high in the ranking but I have no idea who it is.
For me this is a mystery. This guy isn't highly ranked (I think he is plat or gold ?), he isn't that much entertaining neither (Grubby for instance is better), he isn't someone who was notorious before (as it would be the case for a caster for instance). So why does he have so many viewers ? Just wondering...
EDIT: didn't see this thread was already talking about that. Nothing against u Winter, just surprised as much as many others here who know the players and the tournaments. It's more than 30% viewers who prefer your stream to PL for instance.
On September 11 2014 12:01 The_Red_Viper wrote: [quote] One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
He himself said he was being view-botted by someone else at times, twitch does not ban for that reason because you can't tell if the person is view-botting themselves or if someone else is doing it.
If that would happen on a daily basis i am pretty sure he would get banned, so again: Why didn't he? People literally think he has now viewers whatsoever, how can he make over 4k on donations pretty much every month then? I guess this is also only fake? Absolutely ridiculous and i don't even watch him that often, but this bs has to stop (when i read things like this i am not surprised people don't stream into the sc2 scene)
On September 11 2014 12:12 CursOr wrote:
On September 11 2014 12:05 NovemberstOrm wrote: [quote] He himself said he was being view-botted by someone else at times, twitch does not ban for that reason because you can't tell if the person is view-botting themselves or if someone else is doing it.
The guy is a great streamer IMO. No one else talks that much while they are playing. If he doesn't actually have that many viewers, he certainly deserves some, and I don't really care if some are botted. I fail to see why people get so heated.
The only reason this rumor is still in the room is cause people think he doesn't deserve it. Whenever he is brought up anywhere his "haters" will keep spreading this lie and new people will pick it up as a fact. Obama could say he doesn't bot and people still would think he does.
i'm not saying anything bad just speaking what i understand from the situation
Yeah i see, the problem is that people keep refering to "he said it himself". AFAIK he said it happened at the beginning a few times. These "few times" are the source for pretty much all the haters out there, without any context. To be fair, maybe he chanmaned his way into the scene, i don't know and nobody else does i guess. But at this point i just don't see how he could do it without twitch reacting to it. Incontrol said on the last unfiltered episode that his "connections" at twitch said they don't see anything wrong with winter and he seems to be legit.
On September 11 2014 11:28 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: [quote]
Even iNcontroL has hit 3K a few times recently, although he's usually more around 1.5-2K.
Also, some of the top tier Koreans barely get any viewers because they either stream on a shitty non-Twitch site, or their stream has no commentary/ barely any music. It seems that a lot more people prefer the more entertaining mid-level pros/ foreigners, that they can better relate to and interact with.
I don't know too much about Winter (I've watched his stream a few times), but he's very entertaining and interactive with his audience. He's also a good Random player and he provides commentary and analysis.
EDIT: And he also looks and sounds like Bo Burnham. lol.
This is always brought up as a defense of his very suspicious view pattern. It doesnt do a single thing to address how odd his numbers are. He could get his views for streaming naked in makeup while speaking for pig latin for all I care. But when he gets those views that are way higher than even a lot of non starcraft streamers at a time where people are either working or asleep (12 -6am EST), a dead chat (chats 1/10 as large are twice as active), and weird fluctuations of numbers (500 to 3000 in 10 minutes) then Im going to be suspicious.
One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
Well it woudnt be true.
Yeah i am sure everything you say is automatically true, if someone denys your authority for any specific topic he has to be wrong. Nice to know random user on the internet.
Ok what part did I say was wrong.
I don't have to prove you are wrong, you first have to prove your "points". But i already see there is no way someone can argue with you, you are one of those fanatics who will keep hating no matter what. Read my comment you quoted and try to go from there if you really want though...
Point 2 http://imgur.com/uVkJHk9 - inactive chat, look at someone with half the viewers and see how active it is. I tried doing the same thing for a CS guy who had 1700 viewers but I lost my time marks because the chat was so active.
You realize literally every major twitch stream has this same occurence. I challenge you to go to Destiny, Grubby, Demuslim, Lirik, Sodapoppin etc, and tell me that twitch viewer numbers are always consistent and reliable and useful for a good photoshop. If that is your evidence than you might want to try a somalian court.
That is a fair point and I concede that. However that was definitely the weakest of my three and the other two have had no explanations.
As for your response to TB, I dont really care how you get viewers or why they stay which that was addressing I believe (more time to stream, being featured, etc). Social media,I dont care about that either or think that can be used as an argument. The only thing Im "concerned" about is that when you do stream, it seems really odd the numbers you get seem contrary to what every other streamer gets and in chat it feels like Im in a ghost town.
edit: Although Im fairly certain this thing is never going to get resolved and no one will really know.
On September 11 2014 20:28 BreAKerTV wrote: I'm thinking that because of the WEC, I might be in the top 50 for September unless I am somehow "phased out" (I am not a featured streamer, after all).
The lists only show player streams, not casters or tournaments, since the viewer numbers for the latter vary wildly based on what tournaments are being played and thus it's not quite ideal to compare those month to month.
Thank you again Conti for putting the work into the post, the numbers and fact checking as always. I know there are plenty of people who don't like me, my stream, my content, or anything surrounding it. Honestly I would rarely watch my own stream, I prefer Mingun, Polt, Innovation, etc. I do enjoy streaming and talking with people who enjoy my stream, which is why I've done it for almost 3 years.
I don't deserve viewers more than Polt or Innovation, I don't have a higher level or skill or better content. Honestly all I have is brute force and an ability to talk for hours on end. Conti pointed out earlier some major viewer jumps in both December and April of these past few months.
December(jump from about 200 avg viewers to 500): I finished school for the semester about a week into December. From that point I streamed 233 hours that month(about 10 hours a day after the first week), only taking a day off for Christmas. This was a time when there were very few tournaments and no WCS, so a lot of the time I was able to be on the front page of starcraft twitch, and I was lucky enough to pick up a twitch partnership and also a subscriber button.
April(jump from about 600 to 1300 viewers): I went back to school for Winter semester, so I could not stream as much, as consistently or for the length of time that I did over December break. WCS, many tournaments and other things started back up again for the year, so I wasn't able to see any real growth besides subscribers/followers throughout.
2 things lined up again after. First, I finished school in mid April, and second I fixed my ISP issues. For over a year I had an issue with my ISP where it would go offline for 5-15 seconds at a time every 1-2 hours, taking the stream offline and usually 25-40% of my viewers with it. I finally was able to work out settings that would avoid most of these reconnects and instead of continually dropping and gaining viewers throughout the night I was able to build. Since I was off school again I streamed for 25 days in a row between mid april and early May, once again not with a huge display of skill or a tournament win, just lucky enough to be near the top of twitch and pick up some viewers that might for one reason or another be interested in other streams. On top of that I was featured on teamliquid near the very end of the month which helped a bit more as well.
This is what happened to increase my viewers. I stream in a way that allows me to stream for long periods of time, which is usually smurfing. I don't have the skill or stamina to play at my top level and commentate for the 8+ hours that I stream at, and I don't pretend to be competitive or an authority on strategy or the game. I have content that some people like to watch, and I like interacting with those people. There is a base out there of people just looking for someone to talk about the game, without a regard to being a top pro, which is what makes people like Totalbiscuit so entertaining. I listened to WCRadio shows about lore and dungeons even though I was exclusively a competitive PvP player back in World of Warcraft because people talking is entertaining.
As for social media metrics which has been pointed out before, I just recently became anywhere close to active. My facebook only has 1700likes, my twitter only 1600. Another point here, I lost access to my previous twitter account(email issues) @WinterStarcraft last year when I had around 500 followers. That twitter account now has almost 450 more followers(with 0 tweets since September), while the twitter account I created in December to replace it @StarcraftWinter has 1600. My youtube channel has gained over 2500 subscibers in the past 2 months while being under 2000 for almost 2 years. I probably could do more with social media but honestly I've never really been involved.
As for the claims of viewbots, yes they have happened on my stream just like other streams all across twitch. I stream for more than most streamers as I'm able to commit so much time, so I am stuck with them proportionally more often. As for on a regular basis, I have doubled my subscriber count from 250-500 in the past 6-8 weeks along with a nearly equal increase in donations and follows as well. If all of these things are botted that would be extremely demoralizing, just like being repeatedly accused of it.
I don't feel entitled to viewers, I don't even really find my own content particularly entertaining or educational. All I do is produce enough of that content on a regular basis that enough people seemed to be interested in to allow me to comfortably make it a full time career. Viewbots don't pay my bills, I dont run ads on my stream. If you don't enjoy my content, I understand. If you don't like me, I definitely understand that as well. Please don't feel obligated to defend me if you enjoy the stream, constructive criticism is always preferred. Thanks for reading. Also sorry Conti for hijacking your thread.
TL;DR: I just sit at home and talk at internet people a lot.
This is a quote from the May thread of the exact same context being accused by Totalbiscuit for similar reasons. The reason for the spike in recent viewers has been a premium partnership with Twitch(the first sc2 streamer in over a year to get one, after being questioned and cleared for viewbots), as well as front page twitch.tv featuring which I use to promote the game and much better players than me. Accuse me all you'd like, but I love this game and I would love for more people to play it, that is all I want.
Well at least this doesn't hurt and I am thankful for that promotion. Cannot comment on the rest, I am still surprised of all those viewers you get but I guess I m just not able to see how nice your stream is.
On September 11 2014 12:05 NovemberstOrm wrote: [quote] He himself said he was being view-botted by someone else at times, twitch does not ban for that reason because you can't tell if the person is view-botting themselves or if someone else is doing it.
If that would happen on a daily basis i am pretty sure he would get banned, so again: Why didn't he? People literally think he has now viewers whatsoever, how can he make over 4k on donations pretty much every month then? I guess this is also only fake? Absolutely ridiculous and i don't even watch him that often, but this bs has to stop (when i read things like this i am not surprised people don't stream into the sc2 scene)
On September 11 2014 12:12 CursOr wrote: [quote] The guy is a great streamer IMO. No one else talks that much while they are playing. If he doesn't actually have that many viewers, he certainly deserves some, and I don't really care if some are botted. I fail to see why people get so heated.
The only reason this rumor is still in the room is cause people think he doesn't deserve it. Whenever he is brought up anywhere his "haters" will keep spreading this lie and new people will pick it up as a fact. Obama could say he doesn't bot and people still would think he does.
i'm not saying anything bad just speaking what i understand from the situation
Yeah i see, the problem is that people keep refering to "he said it himself". AFAIK he said it happened at the beginning a few times. These "few times" are the source for pretty much all the haters out there, without any context. To be fair, maybe he chanmaned his way into the scene, i don't know and nobody else does i guess. But at this point i just don't see how he could do it without twitch reacting to it. Incontrol said on the last unfiltered episode that his "connections" at twitch said they don't see anything wrong with winter and he seems to be legit.
On September 11 2014 11:55 Apollo_Shards wrote: [quote]
This is always brought up as a defense of his very suspicious view pattern. It doesnt do a single thing to address how odd his numbers are. He could get his views for streaming naked in makeup while speaking for pig latin for all I care. But when he gets those views that are way higher than even a lot of non starcraft streamers at a time where people are either working or asleep (12 -6am EST), a dead chat (chats 1/10 as large are twice as active), and weird fluctuations of numbers (500 to 3000 in 10 minutes) then Im going to be suspicious.
One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
Well it woudnt be true.
Yeah i am sure everything you say is automatically true, if someone denys your authority for any specific topic he has to be wrong. Nice to know random user on the internet.
Ok what part did I say was wrong.
I don't have to prove you are wrong, you first have to prove your "points". But i already see there is no way someone can argue with you, you are one of those fanatics who will keep hating no matter what. Read my comment you quoted and try to go from there if you really want though...
Point 2 http://imgur.com/uVkJHk9 - inactive chat, look at someone with half the viewers and see how active it is. I tried doing the same thing for a CS guy who had 1700 viewers but I lost my time marks because the chat was so active.
You realize literally every major twitch stream has this same occurence. I challenge you to go to Destiny, Grubby, Demuslim, Lirik, Sodapoppin etc, and tell me that twitch viewer numbers are always consistent and reliable and useful for a good photoshop. If that is your evidence than you might want to try a somalian court.
That is a fair point and I concede that. However that was definitely the weakest of my three and the other two have had no explanations.
As for your response to TB, I dont really care how you get viewers or why they stay which that was addressing I believe (more time to stream, being featured, etc). Social media,I dont care about that either or think that can be used as an argument. The only thing Im "concerned" about is that when you do stream, it seems really odd the numbers you get seem contrary to what every other streamer gets and in chat it feels like Im in a ghost town.
I am going against every principle I've held for the past two year replying to this, but this is TeamLiquid, not reddit, so I have to respect that. I hold the people who watch my stream to my principles. Kappa spam is banned(sorry nathanias). Avilo is a banned word, (not sorry avilo), you cannot debate futle balance complaints, you cannot debate irrelevant political issues or you will be timeouted/banned by my trusted mods of several years. I want a chat where someone with a legitimate question about sc2 can ask that question without being either drowned out or strangled by your average twitch chatter, and i am HAPPY that the average twitch chatter is angry about everything surrounding my stream, because that means it is effective.
EDIT: For reference, I currently have almost 10K people banned in my stream chat.
On September 11 2014 12:05 NovemberstOrm wrote: [quote] He himself said he was being view-botted by someone else at times, twitch does not ban for that reason because you can't tell if the person is view-botting themselves or if someone else is doing it.
If that would happen on a daily basis i am pretty sure he would get banned, so again: Why didn't he? People literally think he has now viewers whatsoever, how can he make over 4k on donations pretty much every month then? I guess this is also only fake? Absolutely ridiculous and i don't even watch him that often, but this bs has to stop (when i read things like this i am not surprised people don't stream into the sc2 scene)
On September 11 2014 12:12 CursOr wrote: [quote] The guy is a great streamer IMO. No one else talks that much while they are playing. If he doesn't actually have that many viewers, he certainly deserves some, and I don't really care if some are botted. I fail to see why people get so heated.
The only reason this rumor is still in the room is cause people think he doesn't deserve it. Whenever he is brought up anywhere his "haters" will keep spreading this lie and new people will pick it up as a fact. Obama could say he doesn't bot and people still would think he does.
i'm not saying anything bad just speaking what i understand from the situation
Yeah i see, the problem is that people keep refering to "he said it himself". AFAIK he said it happened at the beginning a few times. These "few times" are the source for pretty much all the haters out there, without any context. To be fair, maybe he chanmaned his way into the scene, i don't know and nobody else does i guess. But at this point i just don't see how he could do it without twitch reacting to it. Incontrol said on the last unfiltered episode that his "connections" at twitch said they don't see anything wrong with winter and he seems to be legit.
On September 11 2014 11:55 Apollo_Shards wrote: [quote]
This is always brought up as a defense of his very suspicious view pattern. It doesnt do a single thing to address how odd his numbers are. He could get his views for streaming naked in makeup while speaking for pig latin for all I care. But when he gets those views that are way higher than even a lot of non starcraft streamers at a time where people are either working or asleep (12 -6am EST), a dead chat (chats 1/10 as large are twice as active), and weird fluctuations of numbers (500 to 3000 in 10 minutes) then Im going to be suspicious.
One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
Well it woudnt be true.
Yeah i am sure everything you say is automatically true, if someone denys your authority for any specific topic he has to be wrong. Nice to know random user on the internet.
Ok what part did I say was wrong.
I don't have to prove you are wrong, you first have to prove your "points". But i already see there is no way someone can argue with you, you are one of those fanatics who will keep hating no matter what. Read my comment you quoted and try to go from there if you really want though...
Point 2 http://imgur.com/uVkJHk9 - inactive chat, look at someone with half the viewers and see how active it is. I tried doing the same thing for a CS guy who had 1700 viewers but I lost my time marks because the chat was so active.
You realize literally every major twitch stream has this same occurence. I challenge you to go to Destiny, Grubby, Demuslim, Lirik, Sodapoppin etc, and tell me that twitch viewer numbers are always consistent and reliable and useful for a good photoshop. If that is your evidence than you might want to try a somalian court.
That is a fair point and I concede that. However that was definitely the weakest of my three and the other two have had no explanations.
As for your response to TB, I dont really care how you get viewers or why they stay which that was addressing I believe (more time to stream, being featured, etc). Social media,I dont care about that either or think that can be used as an argument. The only thing Im "concerned" about is that when you do stream, it seems really odd the numbers you get seem contrary to what every other streamer gets and in chat it feels like Im in a ghost town.
edit: Although Im fairly certain this thing is never going to get resolved and no one will really know.
Definitely this. Many persons like me may be surprised or even suspicious but anyway this is probably not gonna get resolved so I guess this discussion should end. GLHF Winter.
On September 11 2014 12:12 The_Red_Viper wrote: [quote] If that would happen on a daily basis i am pretty sure he would get banned, so again: Why didn't he? People literally think he has now viewers whatsoever, how can he make over 4k on donations pretty much every month then? I guess this is also only fake? Absolutely ridiculous and i don't even watch him that often, but this bs has to stop (when i read things like this i am not surprised people don't stream into the sc2 scene)
[quote] The only reason this rumor is still in the room is cause people think he doesn't deserve it. Whenever he is brought up anywhere his "haters" will keep spreading this lie and new people will pick it up as a fact. Obama could say he doesn't bot and people still would think he does.
i'm not saying anything bad just speaking what i understand from the situation
Yeah i see, the problem is that people keep refering to "he said it himself". AFAIK he said it happened at the beginning a few times. These "few times" are the source for pretty much all the haters out there, without any context. To be fair, maybe he chanmaned his way into the scene, i don't know and nobody else does i guess. But at this point i just don't see how he could do it without twitch reacting to it. Incontrol said on the last unfiltered episode that his "connections" at twitch said they don't see anything wrong with winter and he seems to be legit.
On September 11 2014 12:01 The_Red_Viper wrote: [quote] One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
Well it woudnt be true.
Yeah i am sure everything you say is automatically true, if someone denys your authority for any specific topic he has to be wrong. Nice to know random user on the internet.
Ok what part did I say was wrong.
I don't have to prove you are wrong, you first have to prove your "points". But i already see there is no way someone can argue with you, you are one of those fanatics who will keep hating no matter what. Read my comment you quoted and try to go from there if you really want though...
Point 2 http://imgur.com/uVkJHk9 - inactive chat, look at someone with half the viewers and see how active it is. I tried doing the same thing for a CS guy who had 1700 viewers but I lost my time marks because the chat was so active.
You realize literally every major twitch stream has this same occurence. I challenge you to go to Destiny, Grubby, Demuslim, Lirik, Sodapoppin etc, and tell me that twitch viewer numbers are always consistent and reliable and useful for a good photoshop. If that is your evidence than you might want to try a somalian court.
That is a fair point and I concede that. However that was definitely the weakest of my three and the other two have had no explanations.
As for your response to TB, I dont really care how you get viewers or why they stay which that was addressing I believe (more time to stream, being featured, etc). Social media,I dont care about that either or think that can be used as an argument. The only thing Im "concerned" about is that when you do stream, it seems really odd the numbers you get seem contrary to what every other streamer gets and in chat it feels like Im in a ghost town.
edit: Although Im fairly certain this thing is never going to get resolved and no one will really know.
Most streamers who gain their views through being entertaining (as in not being professional players) do seem to have much more active chat communities. For example, QueenE usually has maybe 1/10th to 1/5th of the viewers that Winter has, yet her chat is always a lot more active.
EDIT:
And in counter to the above, it isn't more active because of Kappa spam or other such BS.
I had more active chatters at 200-500 viewers as well, people feel as if they are more interactive, more noticeable, more enticing. That is something I legitimately miss. The only reasons I still stream on twitch was the partnership offer they proposed to me after switching to hitbox.tv.
I was legitimately switching to hitbox, and taking 500+ viewers with me(more than the vast majority of english streams on hitbox), and twitch contacted me about retaining those viewers. I chose to add front page twitch time to promoting starcraft, and I still stand true to promoting that. That is the vast majority of my purpose on twitch atm. I think at that moment I decided I would no longer intend to strive for pro level but strive to demonstrate the skills of those at a top pro level, and I still want to do that, and that's why I dedicate literally every waking hour to streaming or something surrounding it(and sometimes dreaming about sc2 while sleeping, I literally can't help it it is terrible.).
On September 11 2014 12:12 The_Red_Viper wrote: [quote] If that would happen on a daily basis i am pretty sure he would get banned, so again: Why didn't he? People literally think he has now viewers whatsoever, how can he make over 4k on donations pretty much every month then? I guess this is also only fake? Absolutely ridiculous and i don't even watch him that often, but this bs has to stop (when i read things like this i am not surprised people don't stream into the sc2 scene)
[quote] The only reason this rumor is still in the room is cause people think he doesn't deserve it. Whenever he is brought up anywhere his "haters" will keep spreading this lie and new people will pick it up as a fact. Obama could say he doesn't bot and people still would think he does.
i'm not saying anything bad just speaking what i understand from the situation
Yeah i see, the problem is that people keep refering to "he said it himself". AFAIK he said it happened at the beginning a few times. These "few times" are the source for pretty much all the haters out there, without any context. To be fair, maybe he chanmaned his way into the scene, i don't know and nobody else does i guess. But at this point i just don't see how he could do it without twitch reacting to it. Incontrol said on the last unfiltered episode that his "connections" at twitch said they don't see anything wrong with winter and he seems to be legit.
On September 11 2014 12:01 The_Red_Viper wrote: [quote] One question: Why didn't he get banned from twitch? He has to do this like a year now if you would believe the gossip people keep spreading. Also you make statement without any proof whatsover, i could basically say the total opposite and it would be worth just as much: nothing.
Well it woudnt be true.
Yeah i am sure everything you say is automatically true, if someone denys your authority for any specific topic he has to be wrong. Nice to know random user on the internet.
Ok what part did I say was wrong.
I don't have to prove you are wrong, you first have to prove your "points". But i already see there is no way someone can argue with you, you are one of those fanatics who will keep hating no matter what. Read my comment you quoted and try to go from there if you really want though...
Point 2 http://imgur.com/uVkJHk9 - inactive chat, look at someone with half the viewers and see how active it is. I tried doing the same thing for a CS guy who had 1700 viewers but I lost my time marks because the chat was so active.
You realize literally every major twitch stream has this same occurence. I challenge you to go to Destiny, Grubby, Demuslim, Lirik, Sodapoppin etc, and tell me that twitch viewer numbers are always consistent and reliable and useful for a good photoshop. If that is your evidence than you might want to try a somalian court.
That is a fair point and I concede that. However that was definitely the weakest of my three and the other two have had no explanations.
As for your response to TB, I dont really care how you get viewers or why they stay which that was addressing I believe (more time to stream, being featured, etc). Social media,I dont care about that either or think that can be used as an argument. The only thing Im "concerned" about is that when you do stream, it seems really odd the numbers you get seem contrary to what every other streamer gets and in chat it feels like Im in a ghost town.
I am going against every principle I've held for the past two year replying to this, but this is TeamLiquid, not reddit, so I have to respect that. I hold the people who watch my stream to my principles. Kappa spam is banned(sorry nathanias). Avilo is a banned word, (not sorry avilo), you cannot debate futle balance complaints, you cannot debate irrelevant political issues or you will be timeouted/banned by my trusted mods of several years. I want a chat where someone with a legitimate question about sc2 can ask that question without being either drowned out or strangled by your average twitch chatter, and i am HAPPY that the average twitch chatter is angry about everything surrounding my stream, because that means it is effective.
EDIT: For reference, I currently have almost 10K people banned in my stream chat.
On September 11 2014 11:07 Hider wrote: The part that doens't make sense for Winterstarcraft is that he consistently can get around 3k viewers, but only has 1k Twitter followers. How do you explain that?
He doesn't push it?
Eh? He is pretty active on twitter, thus it seems he would like to have more followers. As a comparison Avilo has 2k followers. If you consistnely have so many viewers as WintherStarcraft has that just automatically watches his stream, then it's rreally unlikely you wuoldn't also have more followers on twitter.
I would say given that Avilo has twice as many followers, he probably should have close to twice as many viewers as well. Thus, Wintherstarcraft actually just has around 500-600 viewers, which kinda makes sense because that was what he used to have.
If we look at Avilo's rise from being a relatively unknown streamer, his road to "success" was very slow and gradual. Wintherstarcraft followed almost the same path, but then he just suddenly went from 500 to 2.5k in 2 weeks or so. As a comparison gained much less when he became featured (as I remember it, it was definitely less than a 50% increase in the 2-3 weeks after he became featured).
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/IIT9HGW.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/xFZggxz.png)
