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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On September 02 2014 20:15 fenix404 wrote:
flash is 48-13, let's take that in...
Here's my opinion on Flashs position. Let's say Snute wins the final game and defeats Flash 3-2. I feel that a lot of people would think that holding the #3 position would be too high and it would be very likely he'd end up lower. Can one map really hold that much influence on his overall strength? I think that would still be the case if he had lost to Taeja or Zest. Interestingly, if you make the assumption he loses one of those series his overall statistics still look mighty impressive. But because he didn't lift the trophy peoples perception of his strength changes.
I think that's the issue that's at hand here. Rain/maru have been fairly out of the spotlight in August while Flash's latest accomplishment (and a significant one at that) was literally last weekend. I think that lack of attention is the greatest reason why people have a problem with Flash at 3 and not 1. In reality all three are extremely close at the moment -- to illustrate, maru and flash are 2-2 in the last 5 weeks (2-1 to flash and 1-0 to maru) -- and as such good arguments can be made for any permutation of the three.
Lastly let's remember what the power rank is really about; it's about working out a list of players you hope to god aren't in your side of the bracket, the players that make their contemporaries hearts sink when they get paired together, the players who are most likely to win Bo5/Bo7's against anyone else in the world. Results play a significant role in working that stuff out, but that doesn't mean staying out of the spotlight and playing less games for a bit means you're any less dangerous.
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On September 01 2014 23:56 Thax wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2014 23:53 Greenei wrote:
How you can not agree with putting Flash as #1 is beyond me. WTF? Best winrate, brought his team to a proleaguevictory, did well in GSL and won IEM. WHAT IS HE SUPPOSED TO DO? Maybe he needs to do a handstand while playing to appease the mighty TL writers? Do more than just perform good for a month or 2?
I like such comments on a _monthly_ power rank.
This list is weird.
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On September 02 2014 21:14 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2014 20:15 fenix404 wrote:
flash is 48-13, let's take that in... Here's my opinion on Flashs position. Let's say Snute wins the final game and defeats Flash 3-2. I feel that a lot of people would think that holding the #3 position would be too high and it would be very likely he'd end up lower. Can one map really hold that much influence on his overall strength? I think that would still be the case if he had lost to Taeja or Zest. Interestingly, if you make the assumption he loses one of those series his overall statistics still look mighty impressive. But because he didn't lift the trophy peoples perception of his strength changes. I think that's the issue that's at hand here. Rain/maru have been fairly out of the spotlight in August while Flash's latest accomplishment (and a significant one at that) was literally last weekend. I think that lack of attention is the greatest reason why people have a problem with Flash at 3 and not 1. In reality all three are extremely close at the moment -- to illustrate, maru and flash are 2-2 in the last 5 weeks (2-1 to flash and 1-0 to maru) -- and as such good arguments can be made for any permutation of the three. Lastly let's remember what the power rank is really about; it's about working out a list of players you hope to god aren't in your side of the bracket, the players that make their contemporaries hearts sink when they get paired together, the players who are most likely to win Bo5/Bo7's against anyone else in the world. Results play a significant role in working that stuff out, but that doesn't mean staying out of the spotlight and playing less games for a bit means you're any less dangerous.
I disagree, that one map really had that much influence as it was the difference between a mediocre placement +losing to a foreigner, and winning the entire thing. if he lost to taeja or zest he would still have a somewhat respectable result, and while that would probably weigh in his rankings, it definitely wouldn't as much as the series against snute.
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Not bad rankings but Flash is without a doubt playing better than Maru. Also it bears mentioning Polt recently lost a best of 7 to Stephano. (I'm not joking about this.) He's playing great, especially given that he's in school, but he doesn't belong anywhere near the top 10. I just refuse to believe that if Polt were in Korea he could even hope to regularly qualify for the GSL, let alone advance deep into the tournament or manage a +.500 record in Proleague. Cure also is playing significantly better than Polt.
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Oh yeah, Rain is the king again.
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Flash is the #1 player right now. This weekends tournament had that feel of BW all over again where players would just collapse against him and make mistakes they dont usually make. Only other person that could do that to people was Jaedong in BW.
The list of players on his streak is insane and the fact he even avenged the only 2 series loses vs MC and Zest makes it indisputable.
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The monthly power rank really doesn't make any sense in the current SC2 scene. For every player it is basically about "were there any significant events in the area where I get to play". The fact that people view Flash's 3rd place as low is the ultimate testament to that. OK, great, so he won a tourney on the last weekend of the month and thus we are going to instantly forget that he has been a complete failure in individual tourneys until now? Or is it just because he used to be really good in a game that requires a significantly different skillset?
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On September 02 2014 21:46 opisska wrote:
The monthly power rank really doesn't make any sense in the current SC2 scene. For every player it is basically about "were there any significant events in the area where I get to play". The fact that people view Flash's 3rd place as low is the ultimate testament to that. OK, great, so he won a tourney on the last weekend of the month and thus we are going to instantly forget that he has been a complete failure in individual tourneys until now? Or is it just because he used to be really good in a game that requires a significantly different skillset?
You don't get it that it is a monthy power rank either, right? In this month, he was the best player.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On September 02 2014 02:59 Zealously wrote:
The fact that this is the first Power Rank since December made me hesitant to just cut off at August 1 and exclusively count results from August. Since this ranking is the first in a while, I put slightly more emphasis on consistency and past results. That said, I would not make any major changes even if I didn't.
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Zealousy, will this be a monthly feature again, or periodic?
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On September 02 2014 21:58 IntoTheheart wrote:
Zealousy, will this be a monthly feature again, or periodic?
Monthly, to come out on the 1st of every month unless a tournament concludes on the 2nd.
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On September 02 2014 18:38 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2014 18:17 Franky92 wrote:
I suppose Rain paid TL writers to gain 1st place, and Maru paid even more. Flash has done all you said about Rain (Proleague, Kespa Cup qualifiers, 1st in GSL group), and he also won IEM. How the hell must he do to gain 1st spot? Will Kespa Cup and GSL be enough? Sure, I reckon winning one of them would be enough. What I'd like to see from Flash in order for him to reach #1 is consistency. He was a beast in August, but so was Rain (to a slightly lesser extent), and Rain has been in great form for much longer.
Rain has been in great form for much longer? Based on what? What has he won? What result does he have? What does "A lot longer" mean? From that line of thinking Zest has far better results for a lot longer. What is the time frame for this statement? 2 months? 3? 6?
My criticism is only designed to flsh out a more thorough methodology for the list. There's a lot of ambiguity regarding it like "A lot longer" - which is an almost useless statement. Maybe a set of guidelines for the time frame considered would be helpful. It would bring more clarity for the TL community regarding the decision making.
And don't flame me for criticism. Healthy criticism can help make improvements if everyone doesn't get too defensive about it.
"but in doing all of the above Rain looked indomitable"
Statements like this appear over the top for a guy who hasn't won anything in a couple years. Maybe MVP could have been considered indomitable in his hay day, but certainly not Rain. And Flash has been most indomitable the last 6 weeks.
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The GSL group ceremonies also sum up what people are thinking of Flash right now. Not even the cocky Parting was willing to pick Flash and so he ended up being the last guy selected. No one wants to play this guy right now.
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On September 02 2014 21:59 viperattack999 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2014 18:38 Zealously wrote:On September 02 2014 18:17 Franky92 wrote:
I suppose Rain paid TL writers to gain 1st place, and Maru paid even more. Flash has done all you said about Rain (Proleague, Kespa Cup qualifiers, 1st in GSL group), and he also won IEM. How the hell must he do to gain 1st spot? Will Kespa Cup and GSL be enough? Sure, I reckon winning one of them would be enough. What I'd like to see from Flash in order for him to reach #1 is consistency. He was a beast in August, but so was Rain (to a slightly lesser extent), and Rain has been in great form for much longer. Rain has been in great form for much longer? Based on what? What has he won? What result does he have? What does " A lot longer" mean? From that line of thinking Zest has far better results for a lot longer. What is the time frame for this statement? 2 months? 3? 6? My criticism is only designed to flsh out a more thorough methodology for the list. There's a lot of ambiguity regarding it like "A lot longer" - which is an almost useless statement. Maybe a set of guidelines for the time frame considered would be helpful. It would bring more clarity for the TL community regarding the decision making. And don't flame me for criticism. Healthy criticism can help make improvements if everyone doesn't get too defensive about it. "but in doing all of the above Rain looked indomitable"Statements like this appear over the top for a guy who hasn't won anything in a couple years. Maybe MVP could have been considered indomitable in his hay day, but certainly not Rain. And Flash has been most indomitable the last 6 weeks.
Watch some of Rain's recent games and you'll understand.
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United Kingdom31935 Posts
INno at 9 is fair imo pretty good pr cant wait till next months
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On September 02 2014 22:18 ZAiNs wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2014 21:59 viperattack999 wrote:On September 02 2014 18:38 Zealously wrote:On September 02 2014 18:17 Franky92 wrote:
I suppose Rain paid TL writers to gain 1st place, and Maru paid even more. Flash has done all you said about Rain (Proleague, Kespa Cup qualifiers, 1st in GSL group), and he also won IEM. How the hell must he do to gain 1st spot? Will Kespa Cup and GSL be enough? Sure, I reckon winning one of them would be enough. What I'd like to see from Flash in order for him to reach #1 is consistency. He was a beast in August, but so was Rain (to a slightly lesser extent), and Rain has been in great form for much longer. Rain has been in great form for much longer? Based on what? What has he won? What result does he have? What does " A lot longer" mean? From that line of thinking Zest has far better results for a lot longer. What is the time frame for this statement? 2 months? 3? 6? My criticism is only designed to flsh out a more thorough methodology for the list. There's a lot of ambiguity regarding it like "A lot longer" - which is an almost useless statement. Maybe a set of guidelines for the time frame considered would be helpful. It would bring more clarity for the TL community regarding the decision making. And don't flame me for criticism. Healthy criticism can help make improvements if everyone doesn't get too defensive about it. "but in doing all of the above Rain looked indomitable"Statements like this appear over the top for a guy who hasn't won anything in a couple years. Maybe MVP could have been considered indomitable in his hay day, but certainly not Rain. And Flash has been most indomitable the last 6 weeks. Watch some of Rain's recent games and you'll understand.
ehhh. I think my post came off too negative. Not my intent.
Rain needs to win something that's all. Nothing besides winning a big tournament will change my opinion.
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On September 02 2014 21:59 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2014 21:58 IntoTheheart wrote:
Zealousy, will this be a monthly feature again, or periodic? Monthly, to come out on the 1st of every month unless a tournament concludes on the 2nd.
Thanks! Guess you have that mad passion. :O
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On September 02 2014 21:50 gTank wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2014 21:46 opisska wrote:
The monthly power rank really doesn't make any sense in the current SC2 scene. For every player it is basically about "were there any significant events in the area where I get to play". The fact that people view Flash's 3rd place as low is the ultimate testament to that. OK, great, so he won a tourney on the last weekend of the month and thus we are going to instantly forget that he has been a complete failure in individual tourneys until now? Or is it just because he used to be really good in a game that requires a significantly different skillset? You don't get it that it is a monthy power rank either, right? In this month, he was the best player.
Maybe you shouldn't call people out on "not getting something" when you obviously fail in reading comprehension. I said that the monthly power rank does not make sense, not that this is not the right monthly power rank. The question of "who was the best player this month" is nonsensical, that is the problem. A month is just too short of a time with 3 WCS seasons a year. One month you will judge people on results from random tournaments, which depend mainly on who had enough sponsorship to go there, whereas the other month you have GSL finals ...
On September 02 2014 21:52 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2014 02:59 Zealously wrote:
The fact that this is the first Power Rank since December made me hesitant to just cut off at August 1 and exclusively count results from August. Since this ranking is the first in a while, I put slightly more emphasis on consistency and past results. That said, I would not make any major changes even if I didn't.
Making the high position for a player who won one single tournament in his whole career even more absurd.
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On September 02 2014 22:57 opisska wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2014 21:50 gTank wrote:On September 02 2014 21:46 opisska wrote:
The monthly power rank really doesn't make any sense in the current SC2 scene. For every player it is basically about "were there any significant events in the area where I get to play". The fact that people view Flash's 3rd place as low is the ultimate testament to that. OK, great, so he won a tourney on the last weekend of the month and thus we are going to instantly forget that he has been a complete failure in individual tourneys until now? Or is it just because he used to be really good in a game that requires a significantly different skillset? You don't get it that it is a monthy power rank either, right? In this month, he was the best player. Maybe you shouldn't call people out on "not getting something" when you obviously fail in reading comprehension. I said that the monthly power rank does not make sense, not that this is not the right monthly power rank. The question of "who was the best player this month" is nonsensical, that is the problem. A month is just too short of a time with 3 WCS seasons a year. One month you will judge people on results from random tournaments, which depend mainly on who had enough sponsorship to go there, whereas the other month you have GSL finals ... Show nested quote +On September 02 2014 21:52 Zealously wrote:On September 02 2014 02:59 Zealously wrote:
The fact that this is the first Power Rank since December made me hesitant to just cut off at August 1 and exclusively count results from August. Since this ranking is the first in a while, I put slightly more emphasis on consistency and past results. That said, I would not make any major changes even if I didn't. Making the high position for a player who won one single tournament in his whole career even more absurd.
This.
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EPT
