On August 21 2014 23:51 Fuchsteufelswild wrote: I have no idea why these fads are popular, it's so...uneventful. It's like these people have never seen TerrOr. Do we even know how cold this water is? How do we know it's harsher than a cold shower even? Some animals, maybe people even, live in colder temperatures than a bucket of cold water. Tssk, tssk, I am disappointed.
You completely don't get the point, the whole Ice Bucket thing is to raise awareness for the ALS, Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis, a kind of neural degeneration that causes the sufferer to lose control of his muscle over time, it is one of the very few diseases that have no known prevention method and cure, and is one of the most painful ways to see your life devoured by it. The most famous sufferer of this disease would be theoretical physicist Stephen Hawking.
The Ice Bucket Challenge is to let people understand how these patient feel daily, because what you feel when freeze cold water is dumped on your head is very similiar to the feeling that ALS victims have everyday, the feel that your body isn't reacting to what your mind commands it. Comparing this to what Terror did is great embarrassment and disrespect to this cause.
Also, if you mix ice with water, the mixture will be zero degree celsius, it is freezing cold, way colder than a cold shower.
Thanks for the explanation. The only reason I mentioned the cold shower is that, I'm not convinced in this case because that really looked like very little the two Blizzard people had to deal with, only on them for less than a second, whereas a cold shower, while not as cold, could last as long as you want it to (longer than 1 second...). 0° isn't so bad, let alone for that short space in time. I've been in -6°C temperature and I'm sure many people have been in far, far worse in SK, Canada, Russia, northern Europe etc., so a small bucket that hits you so briefly doesn't sound very fearsome.
Say what you will about the ice bucket challenge, as much of a dead horse as the challenge itself may be, this has to have been one of the most successful viral marketing campaigns of all time. Some 15 million dollars in donations according to Forbes. So it is a bit annoying, and people will likely look back on this like they would any other fad, but some quantifiable good has been done in terms of funding.
Very catchy, very catty, Will. But the ALS Association has since said that it has raised $15.6 million as a result of the challenge, nine times what it normally raises in the same time frame. Another ALS charity, Project ALS, told the Washington Post that its donations were 50 times normal. ALS TDI, another ALS charity, says that has raised $580,000 since the beginning of August, 10 times what it normally receives.
can the OP please put in the reason for doing the ice bucket challenge, im really getting pissed at all these comments with people complaining about the ice bucket challenge. its for a good cause, its was started with you ether have the donate money to asl or dump a bucket of ice on your head, and for people who care they donate and dump the bucket of ice on them anyways to show that they care if you have no clue dont comment its not just a fad, again its for a good cause and to raise awareness about ASL. Honestly i dont get how people cant do a little research before talking shit about this really makes no sense
On August 22 2014 02:08 starslayer wrote: can the OP please put in the reason for doing the ice bucket challenge, im really getting pissed at all these comments with people complaining about the ice bucket challenge. its for a good cause, its was started with you ether have the donate money to asl or dump a bucket of ice on your head, and for people who care they donate and dump the bucket of ice on them anyways to show that they care if you have no clue dont comment its not just a fad, again its for a good cause and to raise awareness about ASL. Honestly i dont get how people cant do a little research before talking shit about this really makes no sense
The bold part is the important one. This challenge started as having to waste fresh water in order in order to not having to donate for charity. That is clearly nonsensical. The fact, that it worked doesn't make it less nonsensical, it just makes it nonsence with a good result.
To make an analogy in Starcraft terms: If a zerg scouts a proxy 2rax and then builds a third hatch before pool, that is technically a bad decesion. If he, for some reason, ends up holding the push, that doesn't make his build good in retrospect, taking 3 hatches before pool against a scouted 2rax can still be analyzed as an objectively wrong decesion.
The same goes for the ice bucket challenge: I think we all agree, that the raised awareness of ASL and the donations, who are conjuncted with that, are a good thing, but that shouldn't stop us from having our own thoughts about the methods used and it shouldn't stop us from critizising a concept, in which someone wastes fresh water in order to avoid donating for charity.
That being said, I think pretty highly of Mike Morhaime and Kim Phan and I think they stand behind the cause (because let's be honest here, there are people out there doing this just to grap attention), so thanks to them for helping to fight ASL, but I still wish, that they would have done it in a way, that makes more sence.
On August 22 2014 02:08 starslayer wrote: can the OP please put in the reason for doing the ice bucket challenge, im really getting pissed at all these comments with people complaining about the ice bucket challenge. its for a good cause, its was started with you ether have the donate money to asl or dump a bucket of ice on your head, and for people who care they donate and dump the bucket of ice on them anyways to show that they care if you have no clue dont comment its not just a fad, again its for a good cause and to raise awareness about ASL. Honestly i dont get how people cant do a little research before talking shit about this really makes no sense
The bold part is the important one. This challenge started as having to waste fresh water in order in order to not having to donate for charity. That is clearly nonsensical. The fact, that it worked doesn't make it less nonsensical, it just makes it nonsence with a good result.
To make an analogy in Starcraft terms: If a zerg scouts a proxy 2rax and then builds a third hatch before pool, that is technically a bad decesion. If he, for some reason, ends up holding the push, that doesn't make his build good in retrospect, taking 3 hatches before pool against a scouted 2rax can still be analyzed as an objectively wrong decesion.
The same goes for the ice bucket challenge: I think we all agree, that the raised awareness of ASL and the donations, who are conjuncted with that, are a good thing, but that shouldn't stop us from having our own thoughts about the methods used and it shouldn't stop us from critizising a concept, in which someone wastes fresh water in order to avoid donating for charity.
That being said, I think pretty highly of Mike Morhaime and Kim Phan and I think they stand behind the cause (because let's be honest here, there are people out there doing this just to grap attention), so thanks to them for helping to fight ASL, but I still wish, that they would have done it in a way, that makes more sence.
For the waste of water thing, in most of these places, a bucket of water is equivalent to... watering a garden/lawn or a water gun fight or washing a car. Arguably it isn't really that much of a "waste" compared to the regular "wastes" that happen on a regular basis. I am not saying its not a waste but I am saying its not significant enough to really warrant much concern.
People are getting way too caught up on the specifics of the challenge itself. Pouring ice water is actually rather irrelevant to what they are really trying to achieve.
The ice bucket challenge is just something unique that can be attributed to ALS, like pink is with breast cancer. It could have been doing 10 sit ups, singing a specific song while standing on one foot or any other unique thing. The goal is to have something that people can associate with the condition and when they see it they are reminded of the cause.
In this case it is throwing ice water over your head, and I think everyone can agree it has been a total success as now that act is consciously linked with ALS.
On August 22 2014 02:08 starslayer wrote: can the OP please put in the reason for doing the ice bucket challenge, im really getting pissed at all these comments with people complaining about the ice bucket challenge. its for a good cause, its was started with you ether have the donate money to asl or dump a bucket of ice on your head, and for people who care they donate and dump the bucket of ice on them anyways to show that they care if you have no clue dont comment its not just a fad, again its for a good cause and to raise awareness about ASL. Honestly i dont get how people cant do a little research before talking shit about this really makes no sense
The bold part is the important one. This challenge started as having to waste fresh water in order in order to not having to donate for charity. That is clearly nonsensical. The fact, that it worked doesn't make it less nonsensical, it just makes it nonsence with a good result.
To make an analogy in Starcraft terms: If a zerg scouts a proxy 2rax and then builds a third hatch before pool, that is technically a bad decesion. If he, for some reason, ends up holding the push, that doesn't make his build good in retrospect, taking 3 hatches before pool against a scouted 2rax can still be analyzed as an objectively wrong decesion.
The same goes for the ice bucket challenge: I think we all agree, that the raised awareness of ASL and the donations, who are conjuncted with that, are a good thing, but that shouldn't stop us from having our own thoughts about the methods used and it shouldn't stop us from critizising a concept, in which someone wastes fresh water in order to avoid donating for charity.
That being said, I think pretty highly of Mike Morhaime and Kim Phan and I think they stand behind the cause (because let's be honest here, there are people out there doing this just to grap attention), so thanks to them for helping to fight ASL, but I still wish, that they would have done it in a way, that makes more sence.
For the waste of water thing, in most of these places, a bucket of water is equivalent to... watering a garden/lawn or a water gun fight or washing a car. Arguably it isn't really that much of a "waste" compared to the regular "wastes" that happen on a regular basis. I am not saying its not a waste but I am saying its not significant enough to really warrant much concern.
Yes, sure, It's probably a lot less than washing a car in a car wash station. I was just analyzing the concept though, not talking about the actual impact on the world-wide water ressources. If it would be "buy a chicken burger at macdonals and throw it into the next dumpster", it would also be a burger-waste and a questionable concept, without it leading to a famine.
On August 22 2014 00:07 algue wrote: This ice bucket challenge is the most retarded thing i've ever seen.
I didn't really understand what it was about and was getting a little frustrated with seeing it everywhere. However I watched the following (I recommend watching it) and you get a greater appreciation for what it's about and I imagine if you have some level of compassion you might change your mind.
Watch whole thing through.
That's a great video! I'm also tired of the cynics complaining about the challenge calling it dumb or whatever. The challenge was never meant to be hard or anything, but was meant so anyone can do it so it could raise awareness and funds for ALS. He has it right in that vid when he says ALS isn't profitable for companies to research cause it doesn't affect enough people.
That's also another thing that grinds my gears when people want to tell other people what to spend their charity money on. Saw one person complaining on reddit that the money could be better used to give cows to africans. The thing is there will always be a better cause than another if you want to take the human element out of it and just break things down by strictly numbers. Africa is the most common go to charity to bring up whenever someone disagrees with someone's donation. Why don't we just divert 100% of all charitable funds in the world to Africa instead to make these people happy? That's just not a realistic thing to do, but it is always the snarky go to response when people say you can donate to a better cause for a charity they disagree with.
I've been having this raging internal debate as to whether or not to post this, I've decided to post it anyway just to provoke thinking. The cynicism is going to be strong in this post.
First off, I want to give props to those who partake in the challenge and those who donate. It raises awareness, it sends money to researchers. A lot of people are going to say that ice bucket is, objectively, a good thing. It has raised awareness and it has raised money to do research on a terrible disease. I think anyone arguing against this is delusional. In this sense, I think we can all firmly agree that the ice bucket challenge is a good thing.
Where I start to be less happy with the entire affair is that, without the water being dumped, the awareness of ALS wouldn't have gotten its boost. This is what I find distasteful. Yes, it IS good that positive things came out of this. However, why are we cherry picking a single problem like this and more importantly, why did it take a gimmick built on guilt trips to raise awareness? There are lots of nasty problems in the world. Take famine. Famine / undernourishment is arguably a more disgusting problem than ALS, given that humanity has the technical capacity to feed everyone on the planet until they were overweight. The reason that famine exists is because selfishness and ideologies get in the way of feeding the entire human population. What does that tell you? The gimmick of dousing someone with water was more successful that the gimmick of writing a song about African children? So, based on the success of a gimmick, one issue is going to get more attention than another. Of course, we can be pretty much sure that people are going to forget about ALS as soon as the fad around it is over.
Again, objectively, yes, this campaign is a success since it raised money and awareness about a nasty disease. My point is that if it takes a campaign like this to raise awareness around this issue and that all the rest of the world's problems are ignored, it's that we fundamentally don't give a fuck. Saying otherwise would, imo, be lying to ourselves. All this campaign does is remind me of how selfish humans can be. Especially since this particular gimmick is built around a guilt trip: either douse yourself or donate, if you don't do either you're an asshole.
On August 22 2014 00:07 algue wrote: This ice bucket challenge is the most retarded thing i've ever seen.
I didn't really understand what it was about and was getting a little frustrated with seeing it everywhere. However I watched the following (I recommend watching it) and you get a greater appreciation for what it's about and I imagine if you have some level of compassion you might change your mind.
It went viral, #Kony was the same thing and it did absolutely nothing but making people feel good about themselves, at least this time some are donating money at least.
I'm just how this thing has exploded, it started less than a week ago I think and now everyone all over the world is doing it. Whoever came up with this idea is going to have one hell of a thing to put on his/hers CV. Heck now even Kespa has done it, that's like if FIFA and Blatter would do it ... not really but still. It's completely mind blowing of how fast things spread nowadays.
On August 22 2014 02:08 starslayer wrote: can the OP please put in the reason for doing the ice bucket challenge, im really getting pissed at all these comments with people complaining about the ice bucket challenge. its for a good cause, its was started with you ether have the donate money to asl or dump a bucket of ice on your head, and for people who care they donate and dump the bucket of ice on them anyways to show that they care if you have no clue dont comment its not just a fad, again its for a good cause and to raise awareness about ASL. Honestly i dont get how people cant do a little research before talking shit about this really makes no sense
The bold part is the important one. This challenge started as having to waste fresh water in order in order to not having to donate for charity. That is clearly nonsensical. The fact, that it worked doesn't make it less nonsensical, it just makes it nonsence with a good result.
To make an analogy in Starcraft terms: If a zerg scouts a proxy 2rax and then builds a third hatch before pool, that is technically a bad decesion. If he, for some reason, ends up holding the push, that doesn't make his build good in retrospect, taking 3 hatches before pool against a scouted 2rax can still be analyzed as an objectively wrong decesion.
The same goes for the ice bucket challenge: I think we all agree, that the raised awareness of ASL and the donations, who are conjuncted with that, are a good thing, but that shouldn't stop us from having our own thoughts about the methods used and it shouldn't stop us from critizising a concept, in which someone wastes fresh water in order to avoid donating for charity.
That being said, I think pretty highly of Mike Morhaime and Kim Phan and I think they stand behind the cause (because let's be honest here, there are people out there doing this just to grap attention), so thanks to them for helping to fight ASL, but I still wish, that they would have done it in a way, that makes more sence.
For the waste of water thing, in most of these places, a bucket of water is equivalent to... watering a garden/lawn or a water gun fight or washing a car. Arguably it isn't really that much of a "waste" compared to the regular "wastes" that happen on a regular basis. I am not saying its not a waste but I am saying its not significant enough to really warrant much concern.
Yes, sure, It's probably a lot less than washing a car in a car wash station. I was just analyzing the concept though, not talking about the actual impact on the world-wide water ressources. If it would be "buy a chicken burger at macdonals and throw it into the next dumpster", it would also be a burger-waste and a questionable concept, without it leading to a famine.
It's already been explained. The momentary shivers that you get from being doused by ice water feels like what ALS sufferers go through everyday.
On August 22 2014 03:29 Canucklehead wrote: That's also another thing that grinds my gears when people want to tell other people what to spend their charity money on. Saw one person complaining on reddit that the money could be better used to give cows to africans. The thing is there will always be a better cause than another if you want to take the human element out of it and just break things down by strictly numbers. Africa is the most common go to charity to bring up whenever someone disagrees with someone's donation. Why don't we just divert 100% of all charitable funds in the world to Africa instead to make these people happy? That's just not a realistic thing to do, but it is always the snarky go to response when people say you can donate to a better cause for a charity they disagree with.
Agreed so much. Stupid people think we can easily solve famine and poverty in Africa by dumping food there. That actually makes things worse because you put the local African farmers out of business.
All these extremely poor countries all over the world (not just in Africa) have cultural, historical, social and religious beliefs that contribute to their poverty. Their traditions and norms get in the way. All we can do is very, very slowly change their beliefs and attitudes. Even then, there will still be millions who will complain about Western imperialism and how they want to go back to the old ways when they were starving. Some people just don't want to be helped.
Finding a cure for ALS sufferers is easy in comparison. Even if a cure isn't found, it is heartwarming to know that your donation is appreciated by the people you are trying to help.
On August 22 2014 03:54 Incognoto wrote: I've been having this raging internal debate as to whether or not to post this, I've decided to post it anyway just to provoke thinking. The cynicism is going to be strong in this post.
First off, I want to give props to those who partake in the challenge and those who donate. It raises awareness, it sends money to researchers. A lot of people are going to say that ice bucket is, objectively, a good thing. It has raised awareness and it has raised money to do research on a terrible disease. I think anyone arguing against this is delusional. In this sense, I think we can all firmly agree that the ice bucket challenge is a good thing.
Where I start to be less happy with the entire affair is that, without the water being dumped, the awareness of ALS wouldn't have gotten its boost. This is what I find distasteful. Yes, it IS good that positive things came out of this. However, why are we cherry picking a single problem like this and more importantly, why did it take a gimmick built on guilt trips to raise awareness? There are lots of nasty problems in the world. Take famine. Famine / undernourishment is arguably a more disgusting problem than ALS, given that humanity has the technical capacity to feed everyone on the planet until they were overweight. The reason that famine exists is because selfishness and ideologies get in the way of feeding the entire human population. What does that tell you? The gimmick of dousing someone with water was more successful that the gimmick of writing a song about African children? So, based on the success of a gimmick, one issue is going to get more attention than another. Of course, we can be pretty much sure that people are going to forget about ALS as soon as the fad around it is over.
Again, objectively, yes, this campaign is a success since it raised money and awareness about a nasty disease. My point is that if it takes a campaign like this to raise awareness around this issue and that all the rest of the world's problems are ignored, it's that we fundamentally don't give a fuck. Saying otherwise would, imo, be lying to ourselves. All this campaign does is remind me of how selfish humans can be. Especially since this particular gimmick is built around a guilt trip: either douse yourself or donate, if you don't do either you're an asshole.
jesus dude. no human has the capacity to constantly promote or suffer over every problem in the world, we would all kill ourselves. the way it tends to work is that people who have been personally affected by an illness or problem (domestic abuse, starvation, whatever) have a stronger motivation to start initiatives like this or get involved with them. so your friend whose grandpa had ALS will be drawn to volunteer for this whereas he may not have done so for a fund to feed african children. does that make him stupid or hypocritical or callous? no, it means he's spending his limited altruistic energy on something that he's experienced and has emotional triggers for, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that when you consider that most people don't do anything for any charity and that's generally considered fine and a personal choice
is this a "logical" system? no. but humanity doesn't work that way. we are passionate, feeling creatures, and we do what we feel. civilization isn't a computer hivemind that can decide to apportion overall charity based on merit of overall suffering. if you lend your brother 5 bucks to take a bus downtown, does that mean you think he deserves $5 more than a starving child? i can't imagine the purpose of judging every act of kindness as inferior compared to a hypothetical "greater" act of kindness, and i don't understand the purpose of sniping at initiatives like this. is it really because you find it unjust or unfair? if so, why don't you spend your energy going out and helping a cause you think is more important rather than sitting on a forum criticizing people who ARE doing something for what they believe in?
im sure you dont mean any offense by your post but it seems like a pointless masturbatory philosophy experiment which is kind of insulting to something that's actually making a difference in people's lives. who fucking cares if it's a "gimmick" or if people feel guilty? so people should only donate to charity when they're NOT feeling guilty? i mean what are you even arguing? how is this somehow worse than the gimmicks and brainwashing we all see in advertisements and billboards every day of our lives for the sole purpose of getting us to buy consumerist trash we don't need?
EPT
