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[TLMC4] Finalists and Voting - Page 10

Forum Index > SC2 General
193 CommentsPost a Reply
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Olli
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Austria24417 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-02 19:48:57
May 02 2014 16:51 GMT
#181
Ok so after playing on all of them here's a more detailed post and ranking.

1) Kamala Park.

Not only is this one of the most visually beautiful maps I've ever seen, it also fits right into solid standard play while still staying "fresh" through being a 2-maps-in-1 design.

- Bottom right and top left allow for more aggressive gameplay (mostly in PvZ because zerg has to take the forward base) but you can also break down the rocks in your natural and take a very safe third base. I love the little blinkable spots in the back of the main base. Makes blink a viable harass option without being another one of those maps. The forward third base is surprisingly open and you have to go up a ramp to get to it if you take the direct route so even though it is a bit more exposed, it should be defendable for zergs. If protoss attacks into the area between natural and third base, that's where they can really utilize forcefields well so any sort of 2-3 base aggressive play against that third base is still definitely viable. The way the main base is "pointed" at your opponent makes it a good target for drop play all game long and also gives terran lots of room to kite inside the base.

- Bottom left/top right are veeeery safe starting locations with three easily defended bases. Immortal all ins look stronger in these spawns actually since it's harder to set up flanks/no ramp you have to walk up - just attack right into the natural which is very forcefieldy. But the high ground from third base should allow zergs to set up enough of a concave with high ground advantage to deflect an attack like that with good control. Still definitely a build to watch out for.
As for TvP, blink isn't an option in these positions as the main base isn't blinkable at all. If you drop the main base as terran you get right to the mineral line, making that a must-defend location for protoss. Otherwise though every base you'll end up taking is pretty straight forward to defend.

Verdict: This map has a perfect natural flow to it and fits right in. You also have to play on it to realize just how GODDAMN beautiful it is.

2) Foxtrot.

First of all congrats to Uvantak for getting both my top ranks. I played on this map against a zerg teammate and had a super fun game. As it says in the OP, this map really pushes for non-standard map features such as the gold minerals in the middle, the base layouts and the two high ground lanes in the middle. It reminded me a lot of Cloud Kingdom, my favorite map of all time, once you go past the three base stage. The high ground lanes were the key locations we tried to gain control over as they obviously give high ground advantage to the one who controls it, making it easier to defend/discourage/stall frontal attacks as the defender (especially in the middle) - the attacker has to walk up a ramp at some point to reach your bases.

One thing to note is that since it's not forced cross spawns (only forced non-vertical spawns), the flight distance from main to natural (for example bottom right main -> bottom left natural) in horizontal spawns might favor one player in some situations.

Verdict: Way too many strategical options for me to write down. This is a map that might take ages to fully explore but what I've seen of it so far feels very fun and dynamic.

3) Catallena.

I only played one game on this so far. The initial three base layout (and the way the map plays out overall) worked a bit like a smaller version of Whirlwind with a bit less focus on the middle area initially. As the game goes longer, the octopus seems to be the main point of contention. I like that blink is viable on this map but the surface area to blink in from the forward third base and the travel distance between there and natural shouldn't make it too strong. This seems like a very good immortal all in map. Two forcefield natural ramp makes it extremely easy to be greedy as protoss.

Worth noting, in case people are wondering, the ledge above the natural can NOT be dropped. Same with the one above the third.

The third base is VERY susceptible to any sort of forcefield attack (and very easy to defend with them as well). It takes four FFs to completely seal off the choke leading to it, three FFs to use the third itself as a wall, two FFs to block the ramp leading up to it. Meanwhile the army can take position behind the gas geysers. Overall I think any playstyle involving forcefields, but especially a blink stalker/sentry/colossus playstyle would be extremely hard to break on this map. Overall the map may be a bit too protoss favored.

Looks like a really good mech map too.

Verdict: The most interesting aspect of this map to me is that it's very easy to punish army positioning through gaining high ground advantages all over the map, even in the center - only exception is the third base.

4) Deadwing.

I don't think taking 10 bases has ever been as easy as it is on this map. Four bases - extremely easy to defend in terms of army positioning - main point of contention is the "entry" to your initial four bases. And then, the further you expand (say you spawn top left and continue expanding downward), there's never more than 2 key locations to cover all your bases at once (except from drops and potential runbys through the backdoor bridge). The way the watchtowers are positioned makes that exact scenario even more potent.

Very good map for protoss deathballs and big mech armies (tank drops are possible at the west/east bases which could be cool). Worth noting though is that while army positioning may be easy, the map is still very wide open and doesn't really favor forcefields at all.

Verdict: Seems like a very standard, Alterzim-esque map with very straight forward army movement and positioning.

5) CJ Biome.

I didn't like this map at all playing on it to be honest. It seems too forced, it only really has one attack path through the middle which is really wide open and 360° airspace doesn't really make up for it.

The map is a lot smaller than it looks, the rush distance from your third to theirs is really small (it takes a probe 25 ingame seconds). I don't like the initial 4 base layout for reasons that have been mentioned - really easy to sit your army in one place and cover all of them.
PvZ has issues very similar to Daedalus - it encourages 2 base attacks because of the rush distance but discourages them because of how open the center is. And if you don't attack you're taking a third base towards the zerg, making it incredibly easy for them to mass up a strong roach/hydra army off 3 bases, move out and be right at your door.

360° airspace around the main for air units to fly around in, mineral lines toward the edges at your natural, third and 4th base where you can't chase air units with a ground army make it incredibly easy to fly in, pick off workers and get out safely.

Taking a 5th base forces you into the middle. There's no way around it, no pathways to move your army to outlying bases without exposing it in the middle. Once you do that it's very easy for your opponent to run around the other side of the hole in the middle and avoid your army to send units into your initial 4 bases. At that point the game does open up and creates dynamic harass possibilities but it happens very late in the game.

Worth noting is also that visually it looks by far the least appealing out of all these maps.

Verdict: Very easy to turtle on 4 bases once you have a strong army, very hard to recover from failed early aggression because of how close the rush distance to your third base is. Gets a lot better past the 4 base stage though.
Administrator"Declaring anything a disaster because aLive popped up out of nowhere is just downright silly."
Yorkie
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States12612 Posts
May 02 2014 17:23 GMT
#182
Agreed. I especially love the top two. i really wish I liked CJ Biome, the concept is sorta cool. There's just a few too many things wrong with it for the coolness factor to carry it through
Hwang Kang Hooooooooooo. Follow mah boy Shellshock @Shellshock1122
shin ken
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Germany612 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-02 23:55:40
May 02 2014 22:46 GMT
#183
CJ Biome reminds me of an old Dawn of War map which looked kinda similar. Although resembling an obscure Dawn of War map is actually not a very positive trait (don't get me wrong - Dawn of War is awesome, but some of the maps were kinda bad).

Voted Kamala Park because of the beautiful doodads!
Samro225am
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany982 Posts
May 02 2014 23:31 GMT
#184
quite telling that the 2in1 maps are favorites.
MrInocence
Profile Joined February 2010
United States172 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-03 01:16:35
May 03 2014 01:11 GMT
#185
KTV Kamala Park all the way.

I'm interested in seeing how those ramp choke points are going to change how battles are fought. Currently most big battles are very one dimensional i.e. a mutalingbane TvZ on King Sejong plays very similarly to a mutalingbane on Frost. This sort of map architecture creates never-before-seen choke points and cool micro scenarios.

Also it's nice and rectangular. Circular maps just mindfuck me.

CJ Biome would be a great pick if it had restricted air routes. The 360 air route thing shoulda been put on a more standard map first. I feel air routes will completely overshadow the uniqueness of the ground route architecture.

KTV Foxtrot has all the stylistic points that I like about KTV Kamala Park except it's too large. It will be a great map once Kamala Park gets figured out. Before that, keep the changes 1 at a time.
MrInocence, Monday, 1st of March 2010 - Tuesday, 2nd of October 2015
pure.Wasted
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada4701 Posts
May 03 2014 07:39 GMT
#186
I settled on Kamala Park, because smaller maps need to start being all the rage again, and it's even better looking than Foxtrot, which looks plenty great to begin with.

I hope, hope, hope that this doesn't happen, but I have this dreadful suspicion that the people who like Uvantek's maps are gonna split their votes between two maps, but might not give one an edge over the other... and then some other map is gonna take it. Put another way, Uvantek might have had a better shot of winning had he only gotten one map into the top 5.

But hopefully justice will prevail.
INna Maru-da-FanTa, Bbaby, TY Dream that I'm Flashing you
CutTheEnemy
Profile Joined November 2013
Canada373 Posts
May 03 2014 08:06 GMT
#187
They all look reasonable, but nothing grabs my interest. No votes then.

I think a person should have to play the map to vote anyways.
Can we help spread the word and create pressure to get Rob Pardo to replace Browder as head of Sc2? Pardo led the team for broodwar, frozen throne, and wow/BC. We need to make this a thing before LotV development starts. Think about it.
EatThePath
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States3943 Posts
May 03 2014 09:31 GMT
#188
On May 03 2014 17:06 CutTheEnemy wrote:
They all look reasonable, but nothing grabs my interest. No votes then.

I think a person should have to play the map to vote anyways.

Would be nice, eh?
Comprehensive strategic intention: DNE
tomastaz
Profile Joined January 2013
United States976 Posts
May 03 2014 21:04 GMT
#189
Everyone should vote!!
No church in the wild --- @tzhang0126
[F_]aths
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Germany3947 Posts
May 03 2014 21:05 GMT
#190
ALL maps look very good. This contest could finally bring the maps we always needed to more diverse gameplay.
You don't choose to play zerg. The zerg choose you.
j1nzo
Profile Joined February 2012
Germany367 Posts
May 04 2014 22:12 GMT
#191
watch out space shark on cloud kingdom, incomes the octopus (with only 7 legs;)) on catellana
♞ rest in peace Madiba ♞
Plexa
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
Aotearoa39261 Posts
May 05 2014 00:10 GMT
#192
Thanks for voting everyone! I will publish the results as soon as possible.
Administrator~ Spirit will set you free ~
Uvantak
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Uruguay1381 Posts
May 05 2014 00:56 GMT
#193
Oh my! :3
@Kantuva | Mapmaker | KTVMaps.wordpress.com | Check my profile to see my TL map threads, and you can search for KTV in the Custom Games section to play them.
Amazonic
Profile Joined September 2010
Sweden239 Posts
May 06 2014 12:48 GMT
#194
Liking Biome, really don't like 2-in-1 type maps though this one looks bearable. Hope a few of these make it to the ladder pool.
"Amazing how something so simple as a fat person and gravity can be so amusing. Classic!"
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