EPTHyuN owed $23,000 in back pay and prize money by Quantic -…
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soerenman
Germany6 Posts
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tar
Germany991 Posts
On January 01 2014 21:43 NEEDZMOAR wrote: this makes me so angry. this is why Esports isnt legit yet.... It sure doesn't help the reputation of eSports in general. However, judging from my experience working for a German district court, many and more small businesses are run in a terrible way and even bigger ones often try to cover up mistakes they did instead of just solving the issue at hand. | ||
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mouzChase
Germany66 Posts
On January 01 2014 20:56 aTnClouD wrote: Well honestly Alternate owes me a lot of money too which they refuse to pay for no reason and to other players too, and I know many other players haven't been paid by their teams. Esport business is still very shady. The problem is that other than bringing the facts to public attention the players have no power to do anything. And these swindling teams don't really give a fuck. I don't get it. Players need to sign contracts, in these contracts should be written facts about payment and rules for prizemoney, so why has a player not chance to fight for himself ?! I, as a player would go all the way to get what i earned ! And thats what Hyun should do too. | ||
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
On January 01 2014 21:55 soerenman wrote: don't understand why dreamhack use a team payment system even though they know about the problems that players don't get their contractual money.. unprofessional cycle goes its way. gl Because a lot of teams have agreements where they take a cut of prize winnings over a certain amount. The simplist solution is almost always for prize money to be sent to the team, the process it and pay it out. It works fine in 99/100 cases. This is the 1 | ||
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aTnClouD
Italy2428 Posts
On January 01 2014 21:58 mouzChase wrote: I don't get it. Players need to sign contracts, in these contracts should be written facts about payment and rules for prizemoney, so why has a player not chance to fight for himself ?! I, as a player would go all the way to get what i earned ! And thats what Hyun should do too. I don't know Hyun's situation, but as far as I understand he should definitely go for legal measures, considering the amount of money is that big. For my and other Alternate players case they were doing some stuff not legally to begin with and we were completely unaware of it, and that messed up all the terms of the contract for us. Also would it be smart to bring to court this stuff against a big company and spend lots of time and money to get back a few thousand euros? I can imagine it works the same for other players. The money owed is simply not enough to invest the time and cash to hire a lawyer and get it back, and most of them are too young and unexperienced or they don't have the resources to get what they deserve. The teams are perfectly aware of this and for this reason some of them don't care about the players condition or what is owed to them. edit: point is that all progamers come from a place of scarcity because of gaming background and they are all very young, so teams know they can get away with lots of shit without much repercussion | ||
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Kleinmuuhg
Vanuatu4091 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439685¤tpage=6#112 | ||
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soiii
Germany266 Posts
 DON'T RETIRE HYUN!! | ||
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tar
Germany991 Posts
On January 01 2014 22:04 aTnClouD wrote: I don't know Hyun's situation, but as far as I understand he should definitely go for legal measures, considering the amount of money is that big. For my and other Alternate players case they were doing some stuff not legally to begin with and we were completely unaware of it, and that messed up all the terms of the contract for us. Also would it be smart to bring to court this stuff against a big company and spend lots of time and money to get back a few thousand euros? I can imagine it works the same for other players. The money owed is simply not enough to invest the time and cash to hire a lawyer and get it back, and most of them are too young and unexperienced or they don't have the resources to get what they deserve. The teams are perfectly aware of this and for this reason some of them don't care about the players condition or what is owed to them. If you don't claim the things that you are entitled to, it is obvious, that the opposite side will go on exploiting you and others. and btw, a few thousands Euros is already more than what most cases at local courts are about  | ||
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AWalker9
United Kingdom7229 Posts
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StegOo
Germany8 Posts
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Bumblebee
3237 Posts
MLG also offers to pay out to both, but as a standard they pay the players directly. If you are from outside the US, they are forced to keep 30 % of your prizemoney in America (or at least the States that are relevant for MLG) so here nothing can be done unless your team has an American company that they could pay out to and that way it would allow the player to pay taxes in his own country. Without continuing to write about every organization, there's always been an option everywhere from the events to pay it to the team or the player(s). As Kennigit said that makes sense because some contracts will have a clause about a percentage of the prizemoney won goes to the team. | ||
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Brett
Australia3820 Posts
GL to Hyun. | ||
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boxerfred
Germany8360 Posts
On January 01 2014 13:08 JoeEastham wrote: Hi everyone, I'd like to start by wishing everyone a happy new year. It's a shame that the news came out like this but Simon's (Quantic Sambuca) action forced our hand. Firstly, I'd like to thank all the players and members of staff in Quantic. This shines all of them in a bad light (myself included) but in reality they are all innocent. The vast majority of staff in Quantic did their jobs for free, or rather "for eSports". It's an odd concept, but the satisfaction of success is a great reward. Try sitting on a train whilst watching one of your players win Dreamhack Valencia on your phone and not react/feel proud. It is unfair to blame any of these people, from Fuji the COO to me as wrongfully taking HyuN's money was all Simon's doing. It obviously hurts the Quantic brand, and we are working to decide what we can do. I urge you not to blame the sponsors as they were doing their best to get in contact with Simon too and had the players interests at heart as much as their own investments. Simon's intentions were never clear, but he would come up with some great ideas - most of which failed to materialise, despite careful planning. The largest problem was the "immature" way he ran the team. Everything had to be done by himself. Even after brining the extremely talented John Clark to help market the team, he wouldn't give John the control/information he needed to do his job. The vast majority of staff and players got on really well, with Skype chats full of fun. I believe it is unfair to pin hate on the organisation as all of the staff were extremely dedicated and put up with Simon despite his "flaws". Myself and Curse talked with HyuN to work out how much money was owed and did our best to get Simon to pay but it is far too easy to disapear from the internet these days. I hope Simon will eventually come to his senses and pay HyuN and any others he may owe money to (if they want to make their matters public, it is down to them. I will not reveal any names!) RenSC2 says this well here - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=20513870 I'd like to thank Curse, John Clark, JM Dualan, Patrick Smiley, Fujikura and all the other excellent people I've worked with in the reformed Quantic. About me - I'm a Computer Science student that has been volunteering for Quantic for about 3 years. I've done everything from writing to managing media, streams, graphic designers, marketing, and sponsor announcements. Essentially, I'm the guy in every Quantic group chat. Thanks for reading, Joe (@Joe_Eastham/Joe@QuanticGaming.com) Too late, internet rage inc. And well deserved for Simon. The danger is indeed that all Quantic gets blamed, so PLEASE add this statement to the op. | ||
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Greendotz
United Kingdom2053 Posts
On January 01 2014 22:09 Kleinmuuhg wrote: this post should be added to the OP http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439685¤tpage=6#112 I think the donation thread on reddit would be a better addition to the OP http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/1u5003/donations_for_hyun_saving_hyun_he_may_continue/ (obviously read carefully and be sure you totally understand everything before sending any money over). Quite frankly this whole incident is just sickening. It does make me wonder why anyone would want to be a progammer. This is not an isolated incident either, it happens ALL THE FUCKING TIME in this scene. I'm fucking sick of it, even if this human-waste 'Simon' comes out of the woodworks and actually pays Hyun (which won't happen, but we can dream) I still think Hyun should just move on. To give 8 years of your life to something and have it end like this is not good for anyone's mental state. | ||
dravernor
Netherlands6186 Posts
I sincerely hope this gets resolved. Good luck HyuN, I hope you keep playing. | ||
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Technique
Netherlands1542 Posts
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Fjodorov
5007 Posts
This Simon sickens me. God, I feel so depressed right now. This is so shitty | ||
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Dr.Sin
Canada1126 Posts
Good luck Hyun, this is not the last time we heard about Quantic, hopefully it will be the last. With so many players on their own at the start of 2014, I hope they fall on their feet. This is a rough start for the near year. | ||
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KingWilhelm
11 Posts
Hyun should look at his contract. The contract is (probably) with some kind of company. So he must just sue the company. (No need to find Simon at all. If he has taken money from the company for his own spending and now is hiding, it should be a case of defalcation and as such the Canadian government will find him for you )Next is the act of suing. I'm no expert in Canadian law but normally it should be enough to get a title against the company. So they will get a letter from court with your demands (and normally he can get this money at this point, c if not it will be really expensive for quantic in the long run ... you guys all say "the long process and all" so it is not worth the trouble, but quantic has the same problem, how often has quantic be sued till now... probably 0 times.. you are not dealing with a big company with a own legal department here, they too don't have the money for a long law case. ) So he should get a lawyer who can say him what he has to do to get a title against quantic. This should not cost to much around 100$ for Germany. If quantic now defaults he has at leased a paper which guarantees his money (if there is any at all). At this point is is interesting to know which type of company quantic is. In the best case for Hyun Simon is personally liable in which case Hyun should get all his money. (But this is most unlikely if Simon is not a total retard XD ) For a lawyer it should not matter which type of businesses it is. esport or not the Canadian laws are still unchanged. That the money comes from outside Canada doesn't matter at all (If it is already payed. If it is not payed, even better ask DH to send it to Hyun.) THE BEST THING WOULD BE IF A CANADIAN COULD PHONE A LAWYER AND JUST ASK HIM WHAT TO DO (AND IF HE MAYBE WOULD TAKE SUCH A CASE OR WHO WOULD TAKE SUCH A CASE AND HOW MUCH IT WOULD COST). (asking is still free and more than saying I don't have the time right now will not happen, they don't eat you alive via phone) SO CAN ANYBODY MAKE THIS ONE PHONE CALL PLEASE AND POST HIS FINDINGS HERE. C ALL WHAT YOU GUY SAY IS NOBODY WILL TAKE THE JOB BEFORE YOU EVEN ASKED. -.-' | ||
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NervO
Netherlands511 Posts
Isn't super common to just keep it for a long time before paying out though, lol. | ||
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