• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 14:17
CEST 20:17
KST 03:17
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12
Community News
GSTL Returns in 2026!21Weekly Cups (Aug 3-9): Protoss get shut out7RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-2212Weekly Cups (July 27-Aug 2): SHIN's big week0SC4ALL II: Brood War - $2500 - Dec 5-611
StarCraft 2
General
GSTL Returns in 2026! SC4ALL: II Talent Announcement! Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Protoss AoE skill expression Weekly Cups (Aug 3-9): Protoss get shut out
Tourneys
PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) 2026 KungFu Cup Announcement Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 538 Media Blackout The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 537 Hostile Territory Mutation # 536 Railroad Switch
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ ASL22 General Discussion Best Games Kespa era BW General Discussion StarCraft 64 is coming to Philly at SC4ALL II
Tourneys
Escore Tournament - Season 3 Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues SC4ALL II: Brood War - $2500 - Dec 5-6
Strategy
Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Fighting Spirit mining rates Any training maps people recommend? Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Anyone here play Quakeworld back in the day? Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread EVE Corporation General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread The Letting Off Steam Thread
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
LOCKPICKING NOOB
LUCKY_NOOB
Chinese Gen Z: Between Dream…
TrAiDoS
Cathedral Of CS And NY pizza a…
FuDDx
Please support my new stand…
Peanutsc
Hello guys!
LIN1s
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 4711 users

[WCS] Race point analysis

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Astro_Peasant
Profile Joined November 2013
6 Posts
November 14 2013 10:39 GMT
#1
Since there is a never-ending discussion on balance in Starcraft II, an objective measure would be very useful. This is where the WCS comes in handy. I analysed the points per race to see if there are any significant differences. Because many players are included and points can be earned over several seasons, not just in a single tournament, I think the WCS gives a good picture of pro-level play. I do not mean to generalise these results to other levels of play, and of course in-depth discussions are necessary too, as this analysis says nothing about certain match-ups, builds, units, etc.

Because the points were not distributed normally (very skewed towards the low-end), I ran Kruskal-Wallis tests in PASW 18. With this kind of test, the absolute points are irrelevant, only the relative position is used. The median is therefore a better representative of average race performance than the mean.

Protoss
43 players
Mean: 1400
SEM: 200
Median: 875

Terran
38 players
Mean: 1555
SEM: 274
Median: 800

Zerg
42 players
Mean: 1314
SEM: 200
Median: 700

Race differences
The Kruskal-Wallis test using the Monte Carlo method did not yield a significant result (H(2) = 0.038, p = 0.98). This is almost as close to absence of a difference as possible. I got similar results with an ANOVA, which would be invalid anyway because the assumptions are not met.

Region differences
I also did the analyses per region, and again found no race differences. America: H(2) = 1.38, p = 0.51. Europe: H(2) = 0.68, p = 0.72. Korea: H(2) = 0.15, p = 0.93.The number of players per race per region is about 14, so the sample size is a lot smaller and thus less reliable. However, given the high p-values I think we can be fairly certain there are no race differences, regardless of region.
Finally, I looked at whether certain regions performed better and found no difference (H(2) = 0.96, p = 0.63). I didn't test for differences between nationalities, because Koreans are over-represented.

Thus, all races performed strikingly similar in the WCS.

Note: I posed this on other forums before, but couldn't do so here earlier because of the 3 day waiting period.
Daswollvieh
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
5553 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-11-14 11:02:05
November 14 2013 11:01 GMT
#2
Your stats say nothing about "deserved" wins.

EDIT: Great effort though. Always nice to get some numbers out.
Cereb
Profile Joined November 2011
Denmark3388 Posts
November 14 2013 11:24 GMT
#3
Yay statistics! <3

What a great idea! Wish I had come up with that! I might just repeat your analysis just for fun

Yeah, those data are skewed a lot! Which of course isn't really a surprise.

Two things: Why is your n=123 when there are 125 player datas available on wcs.battle.net. Also that list seems to cut players off who made less than 250 points. Dunno if that is a noticable sample at all but it's of course highly unlike to change the outcome of your analysis at all, if we are even at all interesting in that level of play of course =)


Very nice analysis in general! Thanks for the effort!


Also, why is this in the tournament section? This should probably just be SC2 general.
"Until the very very top in almost anything, all that matters is how much work you put in. The only problem is most people can't work hard even at things they do enjoy, much less things they don't have a real passion for. -Greg "IdrA" Fields
XtreMe_au
Profile Joined August 2012
Australia412 Posts
November 14 2013 11:31 GMT
#4
fantastic analysis! the game really does seem balanced (at the moment...)
Astro_Peasant
Profile Joined November 2013
6 Posts
November 14 2013 11:33 GMT
#5
On November 14 2013 20:24 Cereb wrote:
Yay statistics! <3

What a great idea! Wish I had come up with that! I might just repeat your analysis just for fun

Yeah, those data are skewed a lot! Which of course isn't really a surprise.

Two things: Why is your n=123 when there are 125 player datas available on wcs.battle.net. Also that list seems to cut players off who made less than 250 points. Dunno if that is a noticable sample at all but it's of course highly unlike to change the outcome of your analysis at all, if we are even at all interesting in that level of play of course =)


Very nice analysis in general! Thanks for the effort!


Also, why is this in the tournament section? This should probably just be SC2 general.


I'm glad you liked it! Please feel free to do it as well, you know the importance of replication!

When I collected the data a few days ago, the number 125 was actually number 123 (124 and 125 were missing). It looks like it's fixed on the website now, but they just cut off the list at 125 anyway. Is there a longer list then?

I put it in tournaments because it is about a tournament, otherwise people start to complain again it's not representative of "SC2 general", but I think it would fit in there too.
Markwerf
Profile Joined March 2010
Netherlands3728 Posts
November 14 2013 11:47 GMT
#6
Could even justify this by doing simple t-tests, 40ish players is probably enough to make the distribution of the mean relatively normal. Anyway just looking at the numbers it's pretty obvious this wouldn;t give any significant result no matter what test you do.
It's an interesting idea for a test though because it elegantly uses the data of a whole year of HotS and it's actually independent datapoints. The general problem I frown about with lot of these statistical approaches to balance is that they are often coming from a tournament here and there where the data is not independent at all; the good players play more matches and highly influence the data.
I still wish they would just post winrates from grandmaster corrected for skill, that is still the best single way to look at the balance I think.
Cereb
Profile Joined November 2011
Denmark3388 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-11-14 11:55:58
November 14 2013 11:49 GMT
#7
On November 14 2013 20:33 Astro_Peasant wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 14 2013 20:24 Cereb wrote:
Yay statistics! <3

What a great idea! Wish I had come up with that! I might just repeat your analysis just for fun

Yeah, those data are skewed a lot! Which of course isn't really a surprise.

Two things: Why is your n=123 when there are 125 player datas available on wcs.battle.net. Also that list seems to cut players off who made less than 250 points. Dunno if that is a noticable sample at all but it's of course highly unlike to change the outcome of your analysis at all, if we are even at all interesting in that level of play of course =)


Very nice analysis in general! Thanks for the effort!


Also, why is this in the tournament section? This should probably just be SC2 general.


I'm glad you liked it! Please feel free to do it as well, you know the importance of replication!

When I collected the data a few days ago, the number 125 was actually number 123 (124 and 125 were missing). It looks like it's fixed on the website now, but they just cut off the list at 125 anyway. Is there a longer list then?

I put it in tournaments because it is about a tournament, otherwise people start to complain again it's not representative of "SC2 general", but I think it would fit in there too.



Ah, ok! Makes sense! Don't know where to find a longer list, but honestly, I feel it's very much reasonable to just use the top 125, especially since it's not just some arbitrary cut-off, but because that is what Blizzard listed, and it's a pretty decent sample size for the chosen analysis regardless

Hehe, yeah it's not easy selecting the "right" forum! It seems though that "SC2 Tournaments" is mostly for the actual tournaments and their matches, whereas SC2 general is more for discussion overall results of those and this really encompasses the entirety of last season =)

On November 14 2013 20:47 Markwerf wrote:
Could even justify this by doing simple t-tests, 40ish players is probably enough to make the distribution of the mean relatively normal. Anyway just looking at the numbers it's pretty obvious this wouldn;t give any significant result no matter what test you do.
It's an interesting idea for a test though because it elegantly uses the data of a whole year of HotS and it's actually independent datapoints. The general problem I frown about with lot of these statistical approaches to balance is that they are often coming from a tournament here and there where the data is not independent at all; the good players play more matches and highly influence the data.
I still wish they would just post winrates from grandmaster corrected for skill, that is still the best single way to look at the balance I think.


Indeed! But how would you actually adjust for skill? As it's a very ambiguous term I feel. I can't think of anything other than adjusting for MMR which I think they claim to be doing already.
"Until the very very top in almost anything, all that matters is how much work you put in. The only problem is most people can't work hard even at things they do enjoy, much less things they don't have a real passion for. -Greg "IdrA" Fields
Astro_Peasant
Profile Joined November 2013
6 Posts
November 14 2013 12:03 GMT
#8
On November 14 2013 20:47 Markwerf wrote:
Could even justify this by doing simple t-tests, 40ish players is probably enough to make the distribution of the mean relatively normal. Anyway just looking at the numbers it's pretty obvious this wouldn;t give any significant result no matter what test you do.
It's an interesting idea for a test though because it elegantly uses the data of a whole year of HotS and it's actually independent datapoints. The general problem I frown about with lot of these statistical approaches to balance is that they are often coming from a tournament here and there where the data is not independent at all; the good players play more matches and highly influence the data.
I still wish they would just post winrates from grandmaster corrected for skill, that is still the best single way to look at the balance I think.


So the data was far removed from normality (K-S test), and other assumptions like homogeneity of variance was not met either. ANOVA is basically a t-test for multiple groups, which as I said, had similar results to the nonparametric test.

The good players play more matches because they are better, and thus have more points. And since there are about the same number of players for each race, this is not an issue.

How would one correct for skill in grandmaster? There are many interesting analyses that could be done with ladder data, especially if you include multiple levels like match-ups and match duration, which would give a more detailed picture. But that would take a lot of work to collect unless someone already has a well-ordered dataset.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Big Brain Bouts
16:00
#126
Nicoract vs Neeb
TriGGeR vs ShoWTimE
RotterdaM751
IndyStarCraft 183
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 751
PiGStarcraft556
IndyStarCraft 183
ProTech65
MindelVK 38
UpATreeSC 0
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 27849
actioN 419
Soma 334
Rush 261
Mong 71
ZZZero.O 33
Terrorterran 27
Sexy 25
Rock 21
Sacsri 9
Dota 2
qojqva4247
XaKoH 438
BananaSlamJamma346
canceldota50
Counter-Strike
fl0m5058
Other Games
Grubby2571
Beastyqt677
B2W.Neo191
Liquid`VortiX159
ArmadaUGS136
Livibee77
KnowMe75
C9.Mang073
QueenE59
Mew2King43
Trikslyr39
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 55
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Michael_bg 8
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV740
League of Legends
• Nemesis1492
• Jankos1355
• TFBlade566
Other Games
• imaqtpie787
• Shiphtur406
Upcoming Events
CranKy Ducklings
15h 43m
PiG Sty Festival
17h 43m
herO vs Krystianer
Solar vs Cure
IPSL
21h 43m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 15h
PiG Sty Festival
1d 17h
Maru vs Shameless
Reynor vs TriGGeR
IPSL
1d 21h
OSC
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Rush vs Hm
Bisu vs Shuttle
WardiTV Weekly
2 days
The Patches Monday
2 days
[ Show More ]
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Sharp vs Shinee
Action vs Shine
PiGosaur Cup
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
BeSt vs Paralyze
Jaedong vs Speed
Kung Fu Cup
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
KCM Race Survival
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
PiG Sty Festival
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-08-13
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
Acropolis #5
Escore Tournament S3: W7
RSL Revival: Season 6
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
Esports World Cup 2026
Esports World Cup 2026: LCQ
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026

Upcoming

CSLAN 4
ASL Season 22
Escore Tournament S3: W8
Acropolis #5 - TRS
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Acropolis #5 - GSA
Acropolis #5 - GSB
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1
META DYMY #4
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.