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This is a heated issue, but please keep the debate civil.
Personal insult is not 'discussion' and will be moderated. -Page 17 |
On August 17 2013 02:19 SightlessGunner wrote:I'm pissed off coz i lost too much time today reading all this bs... ATC finals start tomorrow, so any statement should be given to community. And Genna let us know what happened. Best way she could (without Dennis' help). John would do the same, also without hiding any details.Did we get any words from Take? Check ATC website. I've got a quest for you: try to find ANY info about finals as offline event or anything about Axiom not coming... Someone said that Genna's statement was "not professional". Maybe if she were just a team manager... But she was more like a mother/auntie for this guys! There are so many good and bad feelings involved... Axiom story was all bout family and that's why it is so unique! GJ Genna! Thanks for everything! and GL John!  ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "I sort of assumed it would all be online only until it was revealed later the would be an offline finals." Genna Bain"Assumptions. Mothers of all screw ups" John Bain
Except for all the communications they DIDN'T reveal during the course of this.
They didn't reveal all the private communications, just some. Selective transparency isn't "without hiding any details".
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Canada11440 Posts
Alright people, this and blog have become pretty terrible. Time to take a deep breath and post more calmly.
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On August 17 2013 02:17 BronzeKnee wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2013 02:16 Sn0_Man wrote:On August 17 2013 02:13 BronzeKnee wrote:
In my experience in life, nothing that is done in private and can't be made public is anything honorable, honest, or ethical. I think that is a commentary on your life then, not on things done in private. Privacy, or more to the point, confidentiality, is a crucial aspect of trust, which in turn can be a crucial component of healthy business dealings. Give me a real life example. No theories here please. My wife and I have worked in many different industries (business, healthcare, technology, human services, charitable organizations), and private meetings are always the same (though in healthcare patient confidentiality and privacy are exceptions). Generally someone is getting screwed, and that is why it is private.
Without confidentiality parties will always be (over-)thoughtful of how to word every thing they bring forward, thus hindering the flow of the negotiations.
Also, think a company being really hard pressed for money at some point. In a confidential meeting they could explain their position and ask for terms considering their current financial situation.
In a day to day context: If we knew all our words could be put on twitter for everyone to see at any time, I think most conversations would look a lot different
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On August 17 2013 02:44 tar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2013 02:17 BronzeKnee wrote:On August 17 2013 02:16 Sn0_Man wrote:On August 17 2013 02:13 BronzeKnee wrote:
In my experience in life, nothing that is done in private and can't be made public is anything honorable, honest, or ethical. I think that is a commentary on your life then, not on things done in private. Privacy, or more to the point, confidentiality, is a crucial aspect of trust, which in turn can be a crucial component of healthy business dealings. Give me a real life example. No theories here please. My wife and I have worked in many different industries (business, healthcare, technology, human services, charitable organizations), and private meetings are always the same (though in healthcare patient confidentiality and privacy are exceptions). Generally someone is getting screwed, and that is why it is private. Without confidentiality parties will always be (over-)thoughtful of how to word every thing they bring forward, thus hindering the flow of the negotiations. Also, think a company being really hard pressed for money at some point. In a confidential meeting they could explain their position and ask for terms considering their current financial situation. In a day to day context: If we knew all our words could be put on twitter for everyone to see at any time, I think most conversations would look a lot different
In theory, confidentiality is great.
In practice, when it comes to businesses it is often, (not always) used to cover up for unethical, dishonest, and deceptive business practice where someone is getting screwed.
Which is why I asked for a real life example.
It is also not certain that what Genna did is illegal. In most countries, it is illegal to record a private conversation without the knowledge of one or both of the parties. But Genna didn't record anything, this is where it get's hairy. Take recorded it when he wrote what he wrote and sent it to Genna.
It is up to a judge (at least where I live) to decide if Take had a reasonable expectation for that conversation to remain private, or he could decide that the fact that he put it down in email and sent it to her makes it something that Genna could share. If someone writes me a letter, and I share, do I get in trouble? Often not. Take would have a tough case on his hands, did he make sure no one was looking over his shoulder when he wrote it or Genna when she recieved it (if you have "private conservation" on a street corner, courts often see that as a public conversation)? Did he tell her this was private and not to be shared. Probably not, I didn't see the disclaimer in the emails she posted (yes there is a reason for that disclaimer at the end of someone emails!). Again, that is up to the judge
This is why so much business is done face to face or over the phone.
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Totalbiscuit @Totalbiscuit 3m
@takesen I'm sorry that I lashed out at you in anger. You didn't deserve that, you do so much for the scene and I respect that massively.
All right, folks, TB apologized, lets all get a beer and make plans for the Season 2 finals next week.
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On August 17 2013 02:19 SightlessGunner wrote:I'm pissed off coz i lost too much time today reading all this bs... ATC finals start tomorrow, so any statement should be given to community. And Genna let us know what happened. Best way she could (without Dennis' help). John would do the same, also without hiding any details. Did we get any words from Take? Check ATC website. I've got a quest for you: try to find ANY info about finals as offline event or anything about Axiom not coming...
and here it is http://taketv.net/news/-12-08-13-7387
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On August 17 2013 02:53 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +Totalbiscuit @Totalbiscuit 3m
@takesen I'm sorry that I lashed out at you in anger. You didn't deserve that, you do so much for the scene and I respect that massively. All right, folks, TB apologized, lets all get a beer and make plans for the Season 2 finals next week.
I'm not one for continuing drama, but a simple twitter apology does not make anything that the two have done over the past several days at all acceptable, neither does it bring back any credibility to Axiom's head's leadership abilities when things go wrong. One twitter apology does not a drama diffusal make.
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That apology from TB looks to me a bit ironic
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On August 17 2013 02:59 docvoc wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2013 02:53 Plansix wrote:Totalbiscuit @Totalbiscuit 3m
@takesen I'm sorry that I lashed out at you in anger. You didn't deserve that, you do so much for the scene and I respect that massively. All right, folks, TB apologized, lets all get a beer and make plans for the Season 2 finals next week. I'm not one for continuing drama, but a simple twitter apology does not make anything that the two have done over the past several days at all acceptable, neither does it bring back any credibility to Axiom's head's leadership abilities when things go wrong. One twitter apology does not a drama diffusal make.
So basically the drama and internet outrage is over when you say its over, not before?
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On August 17 2013 02:59 docvoc wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2013 02:53 Plansix wrote:Totalbiscuit @Totalbiscuit 3m
@takesen I'm sorry that I lashed out at you in anger. You didn't deserve that, you do so much for the scene and I respect that massively. All right, folks, TB apologized, lets all get a beer and make plans for the Season 2 finals next week. I'm not one for continuing drama, but a simple twitter apology does not make anything that the two have done over the past several days at all acceptable, neither does it bring back any credibility to Axiom's head's leadership abilities when things go wrong. One twitter apology does not a drama diffusal make.
Agreed, but drama diffusion is done by the community turning its back on this incident and moving on. Let's see how long that takes.
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On August 17 2013 02:59 docvoc wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2013 02:53 Plansix wrote:Totalbiscuit @Totalbiscuit 3m
@takesen I'm sorry that I lashed out at you in anger. You didn't deserve that, you do so much for the scene and I respect that massively. All right, folks, TB apologized, lets all get a beer and make plans for the Season 2 finals next week. I'm not one for continuing drama, but a simple twitter apology does not make anything that the two have done over the past several days at all acceptable, neither does it bring back any credibility to Axiom's head's leadership abilities when things go wrong. One twitter apology does not a drama diffusal make.
You're not one for continuing drama yet you want to continue the drama. What is TB supposed to do? Cut off his ear and offer it to Take? It's way too late to resolve what the dispute was originally about, so at this point it's literally just drama.
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On August 17 2013 02:47 BronzeKnee wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2013 02:44 tar wrote:On August 17 2013 02:17 BronzeKnee wrote:On August 17 2013 02:16 Sn0_Man wrote:On August 17 2013 02:13 BronzeKnee wrote:
In my experience in life, nothing that is done in private and can't be made public is anything honorable, honest, or ethical. I think that is a commentary on your life then, not on things done in private. Privacy, or more to the point, confidentiality, is a crucial aspect of trust, which in turn can be a crucial component of healthy business dealings. Give me a real life example. No theories here please. My wife and I have worked in many different industries (business, healthcare, technology, human services, charitable organizations), and private meetings are always the same (though in healthcare patient confidentiality and privacy are exceptions). Generally someone is getting screwed, and that is why it is private. Without confidentiality parties will always be (over-)thoughtful of how to word every thing they bring forward, thus hindering the flow of the negotiations. Also, think a company being really hard pressed for money at some point. In a confidential meeting they could explain their position and ask for terms considering their current financial situation. In a day to day context: If we knew all our words could be put on twitter for everyone to see at any time, I think most conversations would look a lot different In theory, confidentiality is great. In practice, when it comes to businesses it is often, (not always) used to cover up for unethical, dishonest, and deceptive business practice where someone is getting screwed. Which is why I asked for a real life example. It is also not certain that what Genna did is illegal. In most countries, it is illegal to record a private conversation without the knowledge of one or both of the parties. But Genna didn't record anything, this is where it get's hairy. Take recorded it when he wrote what he wrote and sent it to Genna. It is up to a judge (at least where I live) to decide if Take had a reasonable expectation for that conversation to remain private, or he could decide that the fact that he put it down in email and sent it to her makes it something that Genna could share. If someone writes me a letter, and I share, do I get in trouble? Often not. Take would have a tough case on his hands, did he make sure no one was looking over his shoulder when he wrote it or Genna when she recieved it? Probably not. Again, that is up to the judge This is why so much business is done face to face or over the phone.
I can't give you a real life example...that would breach the privacy of the conversation....jk.
There are countless times in my work experience where actions have been taken private -- and not to "chastise" someone as you put it. Here are a few examples within the last year where I've had 1 on 1 conversations:
With Staff:
- To coach someone on an area where they were falling behind metrics
- To coach someone on the importance of communication (ie, if you're going to be out of office, let team know; or, if you're going to miss a deadline, send out an email letting me know it's going to be late)
- To help a staff member start the process for dealing with a sexual harassment violation from a client
With Clients:
- To discuss the hold up on certain contract terms
- To discuss certain individuals lack of cooperation with a project
- To discuss ending the business relationship
There are countless examples of private communication. That isn't to say that some sort of communication can't/shouldn't be made public. But it's up to both parties to agree on what that communication should be. If that's not done properly then there is a breach of trust and you potentially ruin future relationships as a result...and, if there's evidence that you breached the duty of care you could be on the hook for other repercussions.
I'm not sure why you have such a view that private = "screwed over" but believe it or not, the world is not out to get you.
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This saddens me a lot. I'm sorry that some elements of this community are so toxic. I've seen it myself, and in rare cases even been apart of it. Now, I've come to see why so many figures distance themselves from the audience of this scene, and that is because it can be so hurtful, so spiteful, and so, so childish. But we all, even when we realize this, stay because the reward we get from being apart of something so wonderful and representative of a new age, matches and exceeds the pain of such abuse.
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On August 17 2013 02:53 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +Totalbiscuit @Totalbiscuit 3m
@takesen I'm sorry that I lashed out at you in anger. You didn't deserve that, you do so much for the scene and I respect that massively. All right, folks, TB apologized, lets all get a beer and make plans for the Season 2 finals next week.
Don't forget the upcoming ATC Finals.
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On August 17 2013 03:21 ptbl wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2013 02:53 Plansix wrote:Totalbiscuit @Totalbiscuit 3m
@takesen I'm sorry that I lashed out at you in anger. You didn't deserve that, you do so much for the scene and I respect that massively. All right, folks, TB apologized, lets all get a beer and make plans for the Season 2 finals next week. Don't forget the upcoming ATC Finals.
Fuck it, watch all the SC2. Live, on from replay, audio recording or youtube file. Forget this noise and just watch some player try to destroy eachother
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On August 17 2013 02:59 docvoc wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2013 02:53 Plansix wrote:Totalbiscuit @Totalbiscuit 3m
@takesen I'm sorry that I lashed out at you in anger. You didn't deserve that, you do so much for the scene and I respect that massively. All right, folks, TB apologized, lets all get a beer and make plans for the Season 2 finals next week. I'm not one for continuing drama, but a simple twitter apology does not make anything that the two have done over the past several days at all acceptable, neither does it bring back any credibility to Axiom's head's leadership abilities when things go wrong. One twitter apology does not a drama diffusal make.
it doesnt, but theres nothing more to do here. just need people to get over it now and be excited for wcs
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Maybe TotalBiscuit should advertise the ATC finals through his various mediums as a goodwill gesture? I know he apologized, but I bet if he does this extra thing it will seal the deal.
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I still want a link to that apology tweet.
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On August 17 2013 03:28 ptbl wrote:
Maybe TotalBiscuit should advertise the ATC finals through his various mediums as a goodwill gesture? I know he apologized, but I bet if he does this extra thing it will seal the deal.
honestly if it wasn't for this drama i bet a lot of people would have missed the atc finals >.<
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This was a kinda embarassing episode. Everybody realizes this was stupid, apologies were given.
We should all just move on instead of trying to rub it in..
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EPT
