If you read my Twitter and Facebook, or if you watch any of the various shows I appear on, you may have heard me over the course of the past several months mention a project that has been in the making for quite a while now. Well, I am excited to share the details behind this project with you as we are finally ready to launch! Today, I am proud to announce the SC2L (StarCraft® II League), Powered by D-Link! Our goal with the SC2L is to create a consistent, high-quality team league for the organizations in the West. We want the SC2L to become the Western world's premier team league.
Why the team format? Well, while we are fortunate enough to have plenty of great 1v1 tourneys and leagues available to us in the West, the landscape for team-based competition isn't nearly as strong. We feel it is important to support and feature the West's best team organizations, and in doing so help improve the quality of competition in the West, and the Western scene at large. This is why we are pushing as hard as we can to be the premier team league in the West.
SC2L's first season will be about two months long, and it will feature eight of the West's top teams (including Western team organizations that have Korean players) competing in the traditional ProLeague format (best of 7 rounds, one map per round). Joining us this season will be Liquid, ROOT, MouseSports, Acer, Axiom, EG, and Na`Vi, with Dignitas and compLexity competing as one joint team. Season 1 will be a single round-robin (meaning every team plays every other team once), leading into an online playoff. The final two teams standing after the online playoff will receive travel and hotel stipends to compete for the SC2L Season 1 Championship at DreamHack Bucharest, September 14th & 15th! With our Grand Finals match co-produced with DreamHack, so you can expect the same top-notch production value we've seen from DreamHack Open events over the years.
Our casting lineup for this season is really cool. SC2L Season 1 will be hosted and casted by some of the finest in the biz. I'll be your regular, everyday host and commentator and will be joined on a weekly basis by an amazing rotation of co-casters, which includes djWHEAT, Day[9], and Artosis. I'll be bringing the casts to you live from our studio in San Francisco, with our co-casters joining me remotely via voice and webcam.
Additionally, we are really excited and grateful to have D-Link as a new sponsor for SC2L Season 1. Without their support, we wouldn't be able to bring you the high-quality production and casters that will help make this league one of the best. Additionally, with D-Link's support, we are also proud to announce that SC2L Season 1 will feature one of the first crowd-sourced prize pools in StarCraft II.
How does that work, exactly? It's really simple. D-Link's coming out with an awesome new gaming router, and for every router our tournament's viewers pre-order, D-Link will add $10 to the prize pool. So while SC2L's prize pool will open at $10K, it can be doubled to $20K with the help of our viewers!
If you like what you've read so far, I'd ask that you please check out D-Link's new gaming router by visiting its Newegg.com profile page. If you're interested in purchasing it, make sure to enter promo code "DLNKGAME5" when you check out. By using this code, you'll get a discount on your purchase, and you'll add $10 to the SC2L prize pool!
SC2L's first broadcast will be tonight, July 9th, at 9PM PDT, featuring Day[9] and myself. I hope you'll all join us as we kick off what we hope will be an awesome team league! Also, if you'd like to read more about SC2L, check out our website at www.SC2L.gg !
Sick idea I must say, not that I'll ever buy a D-link router again after the 2 failures i've had unfortunately, but good luck and i'll be sure to watch this.
I think it is a bit silly that it was a invite only format for a team league, there should at least be 2 Open Qualifiers (1 for EU, 1 for Americas). Whatever though, cool idea I guess.
This is great news, I've really been enjoying team leagues lately (mainly because of my team being awesome) so I welcome this and will be fun to cheer for a western team. Cool that D-Link is getting involved as well and putting this up with such a great set of casters, the finals incorporation with DH Bucharest is icing on the cake!
I hope they aren't looking to sell too many routers off of this... $200 is quite the pricey router, and for most people it wouldn't make a big enough difference over a $50 router. Hopefully some people buy it instead of having an embarrassingly low addition to the prize pot :\
Sheth is on the list, is he comming backkk?? I know he stated that he is not even near comming back yet, but that mention on the site alone gave me hope! :D
"SC2L" Is that even allowed? lol I would think that StarCraft 2 League was used already but w.e Oh right D2L -.-
Seems cool, I like more team leagues in the scene, also why isn't EG-Liquid a team for this. Just cuz coLdig is a thing, doesn't mean you can skip out on us. Besides, one of you might screen look!
So.. in order to increase the prize pool by $10, we need to buy a $200 (or $194 with their... $6 discount) router.. that looks like a garbage can. It literally looks like a garbage can. :|
If we want the prize pool to hit $20,000, 1,000 people will need to buy the router. Pretty silly.
That's a pretty original name for a SC2 league. But while I like to see a new team league, I think it's kinda disappointing that it's an invite-only one. :/
competing in the traditional ProLeague format (best of 7 rounds, one map per round)
So, we will have 6 fixed matches Bo1 and then an Ace Match which two chosen players play. Atleast that's what I think you mean with ProLeague format.
But on the schedule on the website (http://www.sc2l.gg/Schedule/) there are only given 5 fixed matches. Is that the format now or is the site still a bit buggy?
Also will the games be casted from replays like the MCSL or will it be played live like ATC (and D2L)?
On July 10 2013 09:14 anonymitylol wrote: So.. in order to increase the prize pool by $10, we need to buy a $200 (or $194 with their... $6 discount) router.. that looks like a garbage can. It literally looks like a garbage can. :|
If we want the prize pool to hit $20,000, 1,000 people will need to buy the router. Pretty silly.
Nice league! So how does coL academy knock coL main roster out and take their spot or will this be exclusively invite only for its entirety(s2, s3 etc..)?
competing in the traditional ProLeague format (best of 7 rounds, one map per round)
So, we will have 6 fixed matches Bo1 and then an Ace Match which two chosen players play. Atleast that's what I think you mean with ProLeague format.
But on the schedule on the website (http://www.sc2l.gg/Schedule/) there are only given 5 fixed matches. Is that the format now or is the site still a bit buggy?
Also will the games be casted from replays like the MCSL or will it be played live like ATC (and D2L)?
By the way, if it's confirmed that they use the Proleague format, I don't know how Axiom can align 6 players when they have only 4.
On July 10 2013 09:17 Serinox wrote: Awesome, but I have two questions :
In the announcement it says:
competing in the traditional ProLeague format (best of 7 rounds, one map per round)
So, we will have 6 fixed matches Bo1 and then an Ace Match which two chosen players play. Atleast that's what I think you mean with ProLeague format.
But on the schedule on the website (http://www.sc2l.gg/Schedule/) there are only given 5 fixed matches. Is that the format now or is the site still a bit buggy?
Also will the games be casted from replays like the MCSL or will it be played live like ATC (and D2L)?
By the way, if it's confirmed that they use the Proleague format, I don't know how Axiom can align 6 players when they have only 4.
If you look at the schedule site, there are players scheduled to play multiple maps per match.
On July 10 2013 09:17 Serinox wrote: Awesome, but I have two questions :
In the announcement it says:
competing in the traditional ProLeague format (best of 7 rounds, one map per round)
So, we will have 6 fixed matches Bo1 and then an Ace Match which two chosen players play. Atleast that's what I think you mean with ProLeague format.
But on the schedule on the website (http://www.sc2l.gg/Schedule/) there are only given 5 fixed matches. Is that the format now or is the site still a bit buggy?
Also will the games be casted from replays like the MCSL or will it be played live like ATC (and D2L)?
By the way, if it's confirmed that they use the Proleague format, I don't know how Axiom can align 6 players when they have only 4.
If you look at the schedule site, there are players scheduled to play multiple maps per match.
Awesome announcement! Really cool to see these casters as a line-up really often, too. Hopefully we can see the lesser-knowns on the teams get their spotlight.
I like this concept "buy a router, increase the prizepool". I think Totalbiscuit did something similar in his tournaments when viewers were able to tip the players they were rooting for or who they thought played well and therefore increased the overall prizemoney that a single player could make. Both ideas are interactive and makes you feel youre part of the tournament aswell. Also, great caster lineup. I think its hard to establish a new "best" teamleague but who knows. I'll be watching
On July 10 2013 09:25 Musicus wrote: Live or replay? Didn't see anything on that.
Treehugger says it's replays. He should know, they've probably played a match already then.
Geoff Robinson @EGiNcontroL 46s @treehuggertl @SaintSnorlax As well as live actually.. what games cannot be played live will have to be replayed due to schedule.
Really great to have a teamleague in all timezones now. But I really wonder how many routers will be selled, since everybody watching this tournament should already have one. But gl, hf, really looking forward to it.
On July 10 2013 09:31 Musicus wrote: Really great to have a teamleague in all timezones now. But I really wonder how many routers will be selled, since everybody watching this tournament should already have one. But gl, hf, really looking forward to it.
There's probably a few people out there who can afford it and will buy a new router if it means helping increase the prize pool. Be interesting to see by how much it goes up though.
Geoff Robinson @EGiNcontroL 46s @treehuggertl @SaintSnorlax As well as live actually.. what games cannot be played live will have to be replayed due to schedule.
Hm ok, so they'll try as much live as possible I guess?
On July 10 2013 09:26 trada wrote: I like this concept "buy a router, increase the prizepool". I think Totalbiscuit did something similar in his tournaments when viewers were able to tip the players they were rooting for or who they thought played well and therefore increased the overall prizemoney that a single player could make. Both ideas are interactive and makes you feel youre part of the tournament aswell. Also, great caster lineup. I think its hard to establish a new "best" teamleague but who knows. I'll be watching
It's more similar to what Valve is doing for The International 3. Buy a $10 "Compendium" and $2.50 goes to the tournament prize pot. Except that's 25% off $10, instead of $5% off $200. Like what they did with the pizzas was cool, discounted pizza AND some of the money went to players/teams. I mean... $6 for a pizza! Good deal. Lots of people did that, so even if it was just $.50/pizza that went to a player, it would add up more than $10 off $200 :\ I would love for 1000 people to preorder these things with that code and bring the prize pot up to $20k, I just don't see it happening. I'd honestly be surprised if they get 100.
team leagues are cool and casters are awesomes but : - the name of the league is really misleading, it should be Evil Geniuses MCSL - it's in concurrence with AcerTeamStory but smaller. - why col-dgnitas team and not other, and team like Millenium deserve maybe more (maybe they deny invite I don't know), it should have incorporate a qualifier. - prize pool is smaller than AcerTeamStory Cup (20,000€) and this phrase make no sense "We want the SC2L to become the Western world's premier team league." for know it's still a random EG MCSL online team cup with modest prizepool.
On July 10 2013 09:21 Glon wrote: Why not Quantic?
this
It is public that SirScoots did not like some of the Quantic management back before they disbanded/re-merged with whoever. I guess that bled into the other guys at EG
On July 10 2013 09:25 Musicus wrote: Live or replay? Didn't see anything on that.
Treehugger says it's replays. He should know, they've probably played a match already then.
Geoff Robinson @EGiNcontroL 46s @treehuggertl @SaintSnorlax As well as live actually.. what games cannot be played live will have to be replayed due to schedule.
Hm ok, so they'll try as much live as possible I guess?
Thats what it sounds like. Understandable decision to be honest.
On July 10 2013 09:33 Chloroplaste wrote: team leagues are cool and casters are awesomes but : - the name of the league is really misleading, it should be Evil Geniuses MCSL - it's in concurrence with AcerTeamStory but smaller. - why col-dgnitas team and not other, and team like Millenium deserve maybe more (maybe they deny invite I don't know), it should have incorporate a qualifier. - prize pool is smaller than AcerTeamStory Cup (20,000€) and this phrase make no sense "We want the SC2L to become the Western world's premier team league." for know it's still a random EG MCSL online team cup with modest prizepool.
Well, one big thing this tournament has over ATC is consistent premier English casting. There are days for ATC where there isn't even an English stream.
Did they slap the word "gamer" to this router to overprice it, while not being different from every other router in existence, or is it actually better? Objectivity please.
On July 10 2013 09:35 MajOr wrote: arent the replays of this event like 6 months old? who would like to watch a 6 month old game lol
On July 10 2013 09:36 Zenbrez wrote: Did they slap the word "gamer" to this router to overprice it, while not being different from every other router in existence, or is it actually better? Objectivity please.
Just slapped the gamer tag on it, I havent looked at the page where you have to purchase it but im sure its full of buzzwords
On July 10 2013 09:35 MajOr wrote: arent the replays of this event like 6 months old? who would like to watch a 6 month old game lol
what? It's a new league.
nah aits been running for atleast 3months if not more just announced until today
well somebody is getting fired...
o wait theres nobody to fire you. Thanks for destroying any hype it had though
sure no problem i just find it disgusting when someone announces a league and try to scam their fans into thinking their games are fresh, its fine to do an event based on replays as long as the replays arent 3 months. but w.e
On July 10 2013 09:35 MajOr wrote: arent the replays of this event like 6 months old? who would like to watch a 6 month old game lol
what? It's a new league.
nah aits been running for atleast 3months if not more just announced until today
well somebody is getting fired...
o wait theres nobody to fire you. Thanks for destroying any hype it had though
sure no problem i just find it disgusting when someone announces a league and try to scam their fans into thinking their games are fresh, its fine to do an event based on replays as long as the replays arent 3 months. but w.e
I love you Major! But really this lessens the value a lot, gotta love ATC being 100% live even more.
Interesting plan making the crowd sourcing based off buying the sponsors product. Will be fun to see how much that totals in the end, finally an "okay" reading on ROI.
On July 10 2013 09:35 MajOr wrote: arent the replays of this event like 6 months old? who would like to watch a 6 month old game lol
what? It's a new league.
nah aits been running for atleast 3months if not more just announced until today
well somebody is getting fired...
o wait theres nobody to fire you. Thanks for destroying any hype it had though
sure no problem i just find it disgusting when someone announces a league and try to scam their fans into thinking their games are fresh, its fine to do an event based on replays as long as the replays arent 3 months. but w.e
I love you Major! But really this lessens the value a lot, gotta love ATC being 100% live even more.
They started a league about 6 months ago and then cancelled it when we were almost half way through group stage making all the games we had played utterly pointless, and this one started a month or so ago :/
More SC2Leagues is always a good thing, and I like that the prize pool isn't ridiculously huge (I'm hoping that's a sign of sustainability). In future seasons, it would be *awesome* to have a more direct form of crowdfunding, because buying a $200 router where 5% of that goes to the prize pool is not very efficient
On July 10 2013 09:35 MajOr wrote: arent the replays of this event like 6 months old? who would like to watch a 6 month old game lol
what? It's a new league.
nah aits been running for atleast 3months if not more just announced until today
well somebody is getting fired...
o wait theres nobody to fire you. Thanks for destroying any hype it had though
sure no problem i just find it disgusting when someone announces a league and try to scam their fans into thinking their games are fresh, its fine to do an event based on replays as long as the replays arent 3 months. but w.e
I love you Major! But really this lessens the value a lot, gotta love ATC being 100% live even more.
They started a league about 6 months ago and then cancelled it when we were almost half way through group stage making all the games we had played utterly pointless, and this one started a month or so ago :/
Wait, so they started playing out a WoL tournament right before HotS launch and then cancelled it when HotS launched? What kind of terrible planning is that?
On July 10 2013 09:35 MajOr wrote: arent the replays of this event like 6 months old? who would like to watch a 6 month old game lol
what? It's a new league.
nah aits been running for atleast 3months if not more just announced until today
well somebody is getting fired...
o wait theres nobody to fire you. Thanks for destroying any hype it had though
sure no problem i just find it disgusting when someone announces a league and try to scam their fans into thinking their games are fresh, its fine to do an event based on replays as long as the replays arent 3 months. but w.e
I love you Major! But really this lessens the value a lot, gotta love ATC being 100% live even more.
They started a league about 6 months ago and then cancelled it when we were almost half way through group stage making all the games we had played utterly pointless, and this one started a month or so ago :/
a month old is still bad and is not acceptable in this day and age where almost all starcraft content is live.
On July 10 2013 09:35 MajOr wrote: arent the replays of this event like 6 months old? who would like to watch a 6 month old game lol
what? It's a new league.
nah aits been running for atleast 3months if not more just announced until today
well somebody is getting fired...
o wait theres nobody to fire you. Thanks for destroying any hype it had though
sure no problem i just find it disgusting when someone announces a league and try to scam their fans into thinking their games are fresh, its fine to do an event based on replays as long as the replays arent 3 months. but w.e
I love you Major! But really this lessens the value a lot, gotta love ATC being 100% live even more.
They started a league about 6 months ago and then cancelled it when we were almost half way through group stage making all the games we had played utterly pointless, and this one started a month or so ago :/
Wait, so they started playing out a WoL tournament right before HotS launch and then cancelled it when HotS launched? What kind of terrible planning is that?
It fits. One of the EG content guys told me they'd start the new EGMCSL season in January but it never came. Was wondering what happened, but I didn't know they actually had started to play out the games already.
On July 10 2013 09:35 MajOr wrote: arent the replays of this event like 6 months old? who would like to watch a 6 month old game lol
what? It's a new league.
nah aits been running for atleast 3months if not more just announced until today
well somebody is getting fired...
o wait theres nobody to fire you. Thanks for destroying any hype it had though
sure no problem i just find it disgusting when someone announces a league and try to scam their fans into thinking their games are fresh, its fine to do an event based on replays as long as the replays arent 3 months. but w.e
I love you Major! But really this lessens the value a lot, gotta love ATC being 100% live even more.
They started a league about 6 months ago and then cancelled it when we were almost half way through group stage making all the games we had played utterly pointless, and this one started a month or so ago :/
I think that this is a totally awesome idea for a tournament and I'm so excited for the casters. I'm glad they have popel casting who know what they are doing.
On July 10 2013 09:55 Lukeeze[zR] wrote: Millenium should be there D:
I can kinda understand EG, the last time they had Millenium in the league, Millenium simply didn't give a shit. Walkovers from single players or the entire team all day. They weren't invited to the last edition of MCSL either.
On July 10 2013 09:58 Grettin wrote: So whos bullshitting who?
We (Acer) played our first match vs mouz same date as we played them in ATC (may 30) Axiom have been busy with travel and such so they are a little behind other teams in team leagues, so it's not too surprising they havent started yet
This is 100% untrue. The oldest replays are from this first very match and they are at max 4 weeks.
We didn't feel comfortable re-requesting the teams to replay the games. We had to get official approval from a number of sources before launching this league and it delayed our original announcement date.
On July 10 2013 10:04 CuteZergling wrote: Regarding replays, from iamlectR:
This is 100% untrue. The oldest replays are from this first very match and they are at max 4 weeks.
We didn't feel comfortable re-requesting the teams to replay the games. We had to get official approval from a number of sources before launching this league and it delayed our original announcement date.
On July 10 2013 09:35 MajOr wrote: arent the replays of this event like 6 months old? who would like to watch a 6 month old game lol
what? It's a new league.
nah aits been running for atleast 3months if not more just announced until today
well somebody is getting fired...
o wait theres nobody to fire you. Thanks for destroying any hype it had though
sure no problem i just find it disgusting when someone announces a league and try to scam their fans into thinking their games are fresh, its fine to do an event based on replays as long as the replays arent 3 months. but w.e
I love you Major! But really this lessens the value a lot, gotta love ATC being 100% live even more.
They started a league about 6 months ago and then cancelled it when we were almost half way through group stage making all the games we had played utterly pointless, and this one started a month or so ago :/
We did cancel the previous start of the SC2L, but not when the games were "almost halfway through." Teams at max had played two weeks worth of games, and the teams who had done that were only like 2-3 of the 8. We cancelled it out of respect to the teams because we realized we could not yet broadcast the games.
On July 10 2013 10:04 CuteZergling wrote: Regarding replays, from iamlectR:
This is 100% untrue. The oldest replays are from this first very match and they are at max 4 weeks.
We didn't feel comfortable re-requesting the teams to replay the games. We had to get official approval from a number of sources before launching this league and it delayed our original announcement date.
On July 10 2013 09:35 MajOr wrote: arent the replays of this event like 6 months old? who would like to watch a 6 month old game lol
what? It's a new league.
nah aits been running for atleast 3months if not more just announced until today
well somebody is getting fired...
o wait theres nobody to fire you. Thanks for destroying any hype it had though
sure no problem i just find it disgusting when someone announces a league and try to scam their fans into thinking their games are fresh, its fine to do an event based on replays as long as the replays arent 3 months. but w.e
I love you Major! But really this lessens the value a lot, gotta love ATC being 100% live even more.
They started a league about 6 months ago and then cancelled it when we were almost half way through group stage making all the games we had played utterly pointless, and this one started a month or so ago :/
We did cancel the previous start of the SC2L, but not when the games were "almost halfway through." Teams at max had played two weeks worth of games, and the teams who had done that were only like 2-3 of the 8. We cancelled it out of respect to the teams because we realized we could not yet broadcast the games.
respect? lol is that what you people call respect to gamers? okay
On July 10 2013 10:04 CuteZergling wrote: Regarding replays, from iamlectR:
This is 100% untrue. The oldest replays are from this first very match and they are at max 4 weeks.
We didn't feel comfortable re-requesting the teams to replay the games. We had to get official approval from a number of sources before launching this league and it delayed our original announcement date.
On July 10 2013 10:04 CuteZergling wrote: Regarding replays, from iamlectR:
This is 100% untrue. The oldest replays are from this first very match and they are at max 4 weeks.
We didn't feel comfortable re-requesting the teams to replay the games. We had to get official approval from a number of sources before launching this league and it delayed our original announcement date.
I don't think this is a "valid defense" of the issue because the Koreans have to play at bizarre hours too. I think casting from replays simply creates a much easier experience, both from a punctuality perspective on the part of EG while making it much easier on teams to schedule their matches among themselves.
On July 10 2013 09:35 MajOr wrote: arent the replays of this event like 6 months old? who would like to watch a 6 month old game lol
what? It's a new league.
nah aits been running for atleast 3months if not more just announced until today
well somebody is getting fired...
o wait theres nobody to fire you. Thanks for destroying any hype it had though
sure no problem i just find it disgusting when someone announces a league and try to scam their fans into thinking their games are fresh, its fine to do an event based on replays as long as the replays arent 3 months. but w.e
thanks for being awesome, all terran games will be irrelevant for sure after this next patch, we'll see how it goes.
On July 10 2013 09:35 MajOr wrote: arent the replays of this event like 6 months old? who would like to watch a 6 month old game lol
what? It's a new league.
nah aits been running for atleast 3months if not more just announced until today
well somebody is getting fired...
o wait theres nobody to fire you. Thanks for destroying any hype it had though
sure no problem i just find it disgusting when someone announces a league and try to scam their fans into thinking their games are fresh, its fine to do an event based on replays as long as the replays arent 3 months. but w.e
I love you Major! But really this lessens the value a lot, gotta love ATC being 100% live even more.
They started a league about 6 months ago and then cancelled it when we were almost half way through group stage making all the games we had played utterly pointless, and this one started a month or so ago :/
We did cancel the previous start of the SC2L, but not when the games were "almost halfway through." Teams at max had played two weeks worth of games, and the teams who had done that were only like 2-3 of the 8. We cancelled it out of respect to the teams because we realized we could not yet broadcast the games.
If there's 8 teams in a round robin format 3 out of 7 matches is almost halfway through the group stage I hope in the future this league will be cast as close to live as possible But was disappointed about what happened with the previous attempt
Really pumped to see this, great NA talent with TOP tier casters. I've missed Geoff's casting since the EG Master's Cup ended. Also happy that I can actually see some good NA players go each other, as opposed to Code B level Koreans (WCS NA).
You can't to be the best tournament without the best teams... but i can understand, it's important for EG with their tonne of money to beat few teams...
I am okay with replay casts if the replays are less than 1 week old (67)
42%
I am not okay with replay casts in any form (52)
32%
I am okay with replay casts if the replays are less than 2 days old (29)
18%
I am okay with replay casts no matter how old the games are (13)
8%
161 total votes
Your vote: On the top of replays in broadcasts
(Vote): I am not okay with replay casts in any form (Vote): I am okay with replay casts if the replays are less than 2 days old (Vote): I am okay with replay casts if the replays are less than 1 week old (Vote): I am okay with replay casts no matter how old the games are
Interested to see what the community opinion is on this, personally I would say It's fine if they are less than 2 days old. It can be hard to schedule all the games to be live with players from KR, AM and EU all playing in the tournament.
On July 10 2013 10:13 fuzzylogic44 wrote: I'm happy about this, but I must say "Starcraft 2 League" might be the most boring, uncreative name in the history of the universe.
If EG ties their name to the league then its not really fair to the other teams in terms of exposure, might have been a sticking point. But I agree it is a pretty boring name atm
On July 10 2013 10:13 fuzzylogic44 wrote: I'm happy about this, but I must say "Starcraft 2 League" might be the most boring, uncreative name in the history of the universe.
On July 10 2013 09:35 MajOr wrote: arent the replays of this event like 6 months old? who would like to watch a 6 month old game lol
what? It's a new league.
nah aits been running for atleast 3months if not more just announced until today
well somebody is getting fired...
o wait theres nobody to fire you. Thanks for destroying any hype it had though
sure no problem i just find it disgusting when someone announces a league and try to scam their fans into thinking their games are fresh, its fine to do an event based on replays as long as the replays arent 3 months. but w.e
I love you Major! But really this lessens the value a lot, gotta love ATC being 100% live even more.
They started a league about 6 months ago and then cancelled it when we were almost half way through group stage making all the games we had played utterly pointless, and this one started a month or so ago :/
We did cancel the previous start of the SC2L, but not when the games were "almost halfway through." Teams at max had played two weeks worth of games, and the teams who had done that were only like 2-3 of the 8. We cancelled it out of respect to the teams because we realized we could not yet broadcast the games.
respect? lol is that what you people call respect to gamers? okay
I love that you're the one trying to call people out on respect, lol
On July 10 2013 10:11 LogiiK wrote: No Millenium ? shame, shame, shame.
You can't to be the best tournament without the best teams... but i can understand, it's important for EG with their tonne of money to beat few teams...
AcerTeam Story cup is more fair with qualifiers..
They don't even factor into the top 8 in my opinion. But we understand that your favorite team wasn't invited and you want to start some drama about it.
1 week is a fair amount of time for a team league aiming to be 'the' premier team league of the western hemisphere. If it's not enough time, then sadly the league is not important enough to the teams. Longer than that and many viewers will lose interests quickly. Live is understandably hard to pull off when you can have players from 3 different continents per match, replays are much smoother to broadcast.
On July 10 2013 10:11 LogiiK wrote: No Millenium ? shame, shame, shame.
You can't to be the best tournament without the best teams... but i can understand, it's important for EG with their tonne of money to beat few teams...
AcerTeam Story cup is more fair with qualifiers..
They don't even factor into the top 8 in my opinion. But we understand that your favorite team wasn't invited and you want to start some drama about it.
It's obviously because of Millenium's earlier issues in MCSL. Objectively, Millenium is a better team than at least ROOT, coL/Dignitas and Na'Vi by far.
On July 10 2013 10:11 LogiiK wrote: No Millenium ? shame, shame, shame.
You can't to be the best tournament without the best teams... but i can understand, it's important for EG with their tonne of money to beat few teams...
AcerTeam Story cup is more fair with qualifiers..
They don't even factor into the top 8 in my opinion. But we understand that your favorite team wasn't invited and you want to start some drama about it.
I don't see how you can even say that especially considering there is no way there are 8 teams that are better then them within the foreign scene. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Acer_TeamStory_Cup (i'm not arguing they deserve to be invited)
On July 10 2013 10:11 LogiiK wrote: No Millenium ? shame, shame, shame.
You can't to be the best tournament without the best teams... but i can understand, it's important for EG with their tonne of money to beat few teams...
AcerTeam Story cup is more fair with qualifiers..
They don't even factor into the top 8 in my opinion. But we understand that your favorite team wasn't invited and you want to start some drama about it.
It's obviously because of Millenium's earlier issues in MCSL. Objectively, Millenium is a better team than at least ROOT, coL/Dignitas and Na'Vi by far.
On July 10 2013 10:11 LogiiK wrote: No Millenium ? shame, shame, shame.
You can't to be the best tournament without the best teams... but i can understand, it's important for EG with their tonne of money to beat few teams...
AcerTeam Story cup is more fair with qualifiers..
They don't even factor into the top 8 in my opinion. But we understand that your favorite team wasn't invited and you want to start some drama about it.
I don't see how you can even say that especially considering there is no way there are 8 teams that are better then them within the foreign scene. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Acer_TeamStory_Cup (i'm not arguing they deserve to be invited)
Hmmm, they seem to be doing very well. I wasn't following that cup at all. Maybe they only have time for one team league. Personally, I am not going to throw a fit because one team didn't get invited to the party.
On July 10 2013 09:35 MajOr wrote: arent the replays of this event like 6 months old? who would like to watch a 6 month old game lol
what? It's a new league.
nah aits been running for atleast 3months if not more just announced until today
well somebody is getting fired...
o wait theres nobody to fire you. Thanks for destroying any hype it had though
sure no problem i just find it disgusting when someone announces a league and try to scam their fans into thinking their games are fresh, its fine to do an event based on replays as long as the replays arent 3 months. but w.e
I love you Major! But really this lessens the value a lot, gotta love ATC being 100% live even more.
They started a league about 6 months ago and then cancelled it when we were almost half way through group stage making all the games we had played utterly pointless, and this one started a month or so ago :/
We did cancel the previous start of the SC2L, but not when the games were "almost halfway through." Teams at max had played two weeks worth of games, and the teams who had done that were only like 2-3 of the 8. We cancelled it out of respect to the teams because we realized we could not yet broadcast the games.
respect? lol is that what you people call respect to gamers? okay
I don't think it's very respectful to the fans to say 6 months when it's actually 4-5 weeks.
Whether 4-5 weeks is okay is another issue entirely, though. I'm fine with it, but apparently a lot of people aren't.
On July 10 2013 09:35 MajOr wrote: arent the replays of this event like 6 months old? who would like to watch a 6 month old game lol
what? It's a new league.
nah aits been running for atleast 3months if not more just announced until today
well somebody is getting fired...
o wait theres nobody to fire you. Thanks for destroying any hype it had though
sure no problem i just find it disgusting when someone announces a league and try to scam their fans into thinking their games are fresh, its fine to do an event based on replays as long as the replays arent 3 months. but w.e
I love you Major! But really this lessens the value a lot, gotta love ATC being 100% live even more.
They started a league about 6 months ago and then cancelled it when we were almost half way through group stage making all the games we had played utterly pointless, and this one started a month or so ago :/
We did cancel the previous start of the SC2L, but not when the games were "almost halfway through." Teams at max had played two weeks worth of games, and the teams who had done that were only like 2-3 of the 8. We cancelled it out of respect to the teams because we realized we could not yet broadcast the games.
respect? lol is that what you people call respect to gamers? okay
I don't think it's very respectful to the fans to say 6 months when it's actually 4-5 weeks.
Whether 4-5 weeks is okay is another issue entirely, though. I'm fine with it, but apparently a lot of people aren't.
Except games were in fact played 6 months ago, but they will simply be completely ignored instead of broadcasted.
I'll stick with ATC as the team league I watch because it's live and the times are perfect for Europeans. But it is a great effort by EG, and for a NA-based league I assume this is the only possible way to pull this off and I'm very happy they decided to go through with it.
EGTL has the clear advantage in terms of casting, but in times of incredible saturation of content, I just can't get excited for VODs of (predominantly) replay-casts and I don't know when I should watch all of that anyway.
I'll click through some of the mouz matches for sure and watch some other games if there are interesting ones that catch my eye, but I don't expect that I'll follow the league closely.
On July 10 2013 09:36 NovemberstOrm wrote: [quote] what? It's a new league.
nah aits been running for atleast 3months if not more just announced until today
well somebody is getting fired...
o wait theres nobody to fire you. Thanks for destroying any hype it had though
sure no problem i just find it disgusting when someone announces a league and try to scam their fans into thinking their games are fresh, its fine to do an event based on replays as long as the replays arent 3 months. but w.e
I love you Major! But really this lessens the value a lot, gotta love ATC being 100% live even more.
They started a league about 6 months ago and then cancelled it when we were almost half way through group stage making all the games we had played utterly pointless, and this one started a month or so ago :/
We did cancel the previous start of the SC2L, but not when the games were "almost halfway through." Teams at max had played two weeks worth of games, and the teams who had done that were only like 2-3 of the 8. We cancelled it out of respect to the teams because we realized we could not yet broadcast the games.
respect? lol is that what you people call respect to gamers? okay
I don't think it's very respectful to the fans to say 6 months when it's actually 4-5 weeks.
Whether 4-5 weeks is okay is another issue entirely, though. I'm fine with it, but apparently a lot of people aren't.
Except games were in fact played 6 months ago, but they will simply be completely ignored instead of broadcasted.
He said the replays were 6 months old, then changed that to 3 months, when apparently a few of them are from 4-5 weeks...
So basically, no he pretty much made stuff up. Either that or he's completely uninformed. And either way, it's disrespectful to the fans, imo.
On July 10 2013 10:23 geno wrote: What about playing 2 different players twice each? Or more? This is quite confusing.
Would still like to know when these matches were played as well.
edit: Saw above answer about triple-playing.
This very first match is about 4-5 weeks old. Only one other match has been completed for the first week and it's less than two weeks old. The other half of matches are not even played yet.
So yeah, I think Major should have just kept his mouth shut.
On July 10 2013 10:13 fuzzylogic44 wrote: I'm happy about this, but I must say "Starcraft 2 League" might be the most boring, uncreative name in the history of the universe.
Please just ignore major for now >_< this is a thread discussing a team league.. you have to be on one to have proper information regarding it.
The games are a bit old (some 2 weeks one as many as 4) and that isn't great.. we aren't satisfied wit that and will do all we can to not repeat it. But as Lectr said and I agree: Making them replay those games due to OUR delays is unfair to the results. So we think this is the best balance!
nah aits been running for atleast 3months if not more just announced until today
well somebody is getting fired...
o wait theres nobody to fire you. Thanks for destroying any hype it had though
sure no problem i just find it disgusting when someone announces a league and try to scam their fans into thinking their games are fresh, its fine to do an event based on replays as long as the replays arent 3 months. but w.e
I love you Major! But really this lessens the value a lot, gotta love ATC being 100% live even more.
They started a league about 6 months ago and then cancelled it when we were almost half way through group stage making all the games we had played utterly pointless, and this one started a month or so ago :/
We did cancel the previous start of the SC2L, but not when the games were "almost halfway through." Teams at max had played two weeks worth of games, and the teams who had done that were only like 2-3 of the 8. We cancelled it out of respect to the teams because we realized we could not yet broadcast the games.
respect? lol is that what you people call respect to gamers? okay
I don't think it's very respectful to the fans to say 6 months when it's actually 4-5 weeks.
Whether 4-5 weeks is okay is another issue entirely, though. I'm fine with it, but apparently a lot of people aren't.
Except games were in fact played 6 months ago, but they will simply be completely ignored instead of broadcasted.
He said the replays were 6 months old, then changed that to 3 months, when apparently a few of them are from 4-5 weeks...
So basically, no he pretty much made stuff up. Either that or he's completely uninformed. And either way, it's disrespectful to the fans, imo.
It's neither.
Major knew they were playing games for this tourney 6 months ago - and they were, management confirmed that. However the games from 6 months ago were thrown out. They are not the ones being broadcasted here.
They started the tourney afresh a month ago, and so the oldest replays that are now intended to be broadcasted are a month old (4-5 weeks).
On July 10 2013 10:33 chindy wrote: What is sooo difficult about playing live ... ??? look at Take somehow they manage to do it.... ATC GOGOOGOGO!!!!!!!! Gotta love TakeTv for that
On July 10 2013 10:33 chindy wrote: What is sooo difficult about playing live ... ??? look at Take somehow they manage to do it.... ATC GOGOOGOGO!!!!!!!! Gotta love TakeTv for that
The difference is that it's NA based, not EU based. ATC starts at like 7AM in America. You can't sell that time to US sponsors and it isn't really ideal to produce a huge league at 6 or 7AM local time.
On July 10 2013 10:28 iNcontroL wrote: Please just ignore major for now >_< this is a thread discussing a team league.. you have to be on one to have proper information regarding it.
The games are a bit old (some 2 weeks one as many as 4) and that isn't great.. we aren't satisfied wit that and will do all we can to not repeat it. But as Lectr said and I agree: Making them replay those games due to OUR delays is unfair to the results. So we think this is the best balance!
Hope you all mostly agree <3
Seems fair given the circumstances. Does that mean that, once the league gets "caught up" (or something) that the games will be played live, or with less delay, or is it going to be run...parallel to the current time frame (i.e. games will be played tomorrow, and then casted in a few weeks)?
On July 10 2013 10:28 iNcontroL wrote: Please just ignore major for now >_< this is a thread discussing a team league.. you have to be on one to have proper information regarding it.
The games are a bit old (some 2 weeks one as many as 4) and that isn't great.. we aren't satisfied wit that and will do all we can to not repeat it. But as Lectr said and I agree: Making them replay those games due to OUR delays is unfair to the results. So we think this is the best balance!
Hope you all mostly agree <3
Seems fair given the circumstances. Does that mean that, once the league gets "caught up" (or something) that the games will be played live, or with less delay, or is it going to be run...parallel to the current time frame (i.e. games will be played tomorrow, and then casted in a few weeks)?
I think we will always strive for live but it may not happen as often as anyone would like given we have a fixed broadcast time AND we have eu/na/kr teams .. that would be very unfair for eu/kr teams and the quality of the games should be chief concern here.
Until we build esports city this is the best we can do if we want to be international!
I'm fine with Millenium not being invited. Last Mill's appearance in MCSL was pretty much a disaster with a lot of misunderstanding between the admins of both sides about the schedules afaik. This and Stephano who was either absent or doing terrible in his matches, it wasn't good at all. And I prefer them to focus on Acer TeamStory Cup.
But still, nowadays, no qualifiers is a lack in any league (team or individual). Teams like Empire, RoX.KIS, Clarity or Quantic could have been good pretenders to participate.
nah aits been running for atleast 3months if not more just announced until today
well somebody is getting fired...
o wait theres nobody to fire you. Thanks for destroying any hype it had though
sure no problem i just find it disgusting when someone announces a league and try to scam their fans into thinking their games are fresh, its fine to do an event based on replays as long as the replays arent 3 months. but w.e
I love you Major! But really this lessens the value a lot, gotta love ATC being 100% live even more.
They started a league about 6 months ago and then cancelled it when we were almost half way through group stage making all the games we had played utterly pointless, and this one started a month or so ago :/
We did cancel the previous start of the SC2L, but not when the games were "almost halfway through." Teams at max had played two weeks worth of games, and the teams who had done that were only like 2-3 of the 8. We cancelled it out of respect to the teams because we realized we could not yet broadcast the games.
respect? lol is that what you people call respect to gamers? okay
I don't think it's very respectful to the fans to say 6 months when it's actually 4-5 weeks.
Whether 4-5 weeks is okay is another issue entirely, though. I'm fine with it, but apparently a lot of people aren't.
Except games were in fact played 6 months ago, but they will simply be completely ignored instead of broadcasted.
He said the replays were 6 months old, then changed that to 3 months, when apparently a few of them are from 4-5 weeks...
So basically, no he pretty much made stuff up. Either that or he's completely uninformed. And either way, it's disrespectful to the fans, imo.
On July 10 2013 10:23 geno wrote: What about playing 2 different players twice each? Or more? This is quite confusing.
Would still like to know when these matches were played as well.
edit: Saw above answer about triple-playing.
This very first match is about 4-5 weeks old. Only one other match has been completed for the first week and it's less than two weeks old. The other half of matches are not even played yet.
So yeah, I think Major should have just kept his mouth shut.
He thought they were broadcasting those 6 month old games since they had in fact played games 6 months ago, but turns out they're just discarding them.
o wait theres nobody to fire you. Thanks for destroying any hype it had though
sure no problem i just find it disgusting when someone announces a league and try to scam their fans into thinking their games are fresh, its fine to do an event based on replays as long as the replays arent 3 months. but w.e
I love you Major! But really this lessens the value a lot, gotta love ATC being 100% live even more.
They started a league about 6 months ago and then cancelled it when we were almost half way through group stage making all the games we had played utterly pointless, and this one started a month or so ago :/
We did cancel the previous start of the SC2L, but not when the games were "almost halfway through." Teams at max had played two weeks worth of games, and the teams who had done that were only like 2-3 of the 8. We cancelled it out of respect to the teams because we realized we could not yet broadcast the games.
respect? lol is that what you people call respect to gamers? okay
I don't think it's very respectful to the fans to say 6 months when it's actually 4-5 weeks.
Whether 4-5 weeks is okay is another issue entirely, though. I'm fine with it, but apparently a lot of people aren't.
Except games were in fact played 6 months ago, but they will simply be completely ignored instead of broadcasted.
He said the replays were 6 months old, then changed that to 3 months, when apparently a few of them are from 4-5 weeks...
So basically, no he pretty much made stuff up. Either that or he's completely uninformed. And either way, it's disrespectful to the fans, imo.
from the LR thread:
On July 10 2013 10:26 EG.lectR wrote:
On July 10 2013 10:23 geno wrote: What about playing 2 different players twice each? Or more? This is quite confusing.
Would still like to know when these matches were played as well.
edit: Saw above answer about triple-playing.
This very first match is about 4-5 weeks old. Only one other match has been completed for the first week and it's less than two weeks old. The other half of matches are not even played yet.
So yeah, I think Major should have just kept his mouth shut.
He thought they were broadcasting those 6 month old games since they had in fact played games 6 months ago, but turns out they're just discarding them.
So he was uninformed...
which is why I think he should have at least been less inflammatory.
Games broadcasted off of replays? some of the previous matches not counting? players breaking the news? One of the worst league name ever? Well this is off to a great start...
I was hoping this will sort of replace IPTL's place, but now I'm doubting if it will even last 1 season. NA eSports organization is so top notch.
On July 10 2013 10:45 Boucot wrote: I'm fine with Millenium not being invited. Last Mill's appearance in MCSL was pretty much a disaster with a lot of misunderstanding between the admins of both sides about the schedules afaik. This and Stephano who was either absent or doing terrible in his matches, it wasn't good at all. And I prefer them to focus on Acer TeamStory Cup.
But still, nowadays, no qualifiers is a lack in any league (team or individual). Teams like Empire, RoX.KIS, Clarity or Quantic could have been good pretenders to participate.
Eh, Roxkis would have trouble in a four player team league nowadays, don't even think about BO7 Proleague style. But yeah, I miss Empire. Always preferred them over Na'Vi/FXO.
On July 10 2013 10:45 teddyoojo wrote: atc2? is there anything that puts this sc2l ahead of the atc?
The english cast at least.
true, doesnt matter for me tho (cuz i speak german obv.)
also the replay thing, if replays are older than a week i dont give a shit so nothing to watch here anyhow
Well it's obvious that the main demographic for this team leauge is America, they can't catch ATC at 7am in the US, so it's just nice to have team leagues in all timezones now.
And we can still catch the Vods for free, if our favourite team played for example, you don't have to follow it actively like the ATC. Also the offline finals at DH will be nice.
I am okay with replay casts if the replays are less than 1 week old (67)
42%
I am not okay with replay casts in any form (52)
32%
I am okay with replay casts if the replays are less than 2 days old (29)
18%
I am okay with replay casts no matter how old the games are (13)
8%
161 total votes
Your vote: On the top of replays in broadcasts
(Vote): I am not okay with replay casts in any form (Vote): I am okay with replay casts if the replays are less than 2 days old (Vote): I am okay with replay casts if the replays are less than 1 week old (Vote): I am okay with replay casts no matter how old the games are
Interested to see what the community opinion is on this, personally I would say It's fine if they are less than 2 days old. It can be hard to schedule all the games to be live with players from KR, AM and EU all playing in the tournament.
For me, it's more about being able to get into it with the casters. I enjoy things the most live, but I watch gomtv vods and enjoy them as well, so it's certainly not a "live or nothing" thing for me. It really depends on the style of casting as well. If it's live, I'm ok with a mix of analytical and play by play, but play by play excitement just doesn't feel right when being cast from replays. I'd need some deep analysis and little to no play by play to enjoy casts from replays because play by play of replays feels fake (even when it may not be fake and the caster knows nothing of the results, you just can't tell).
I tend to go out of my way to watch stuff that's casted live (even if I myself don't catch it live and only get to watch the vods) but will only watch stuff casted from replays if I happen to be bored and it's on.
I'm happy to see the community grow though with dlink attempting this sort of league. I hope they get some sort of positive gain from this but that's going to be a hard sell to gamers with even limited knowledge of routers (most of us are happy with our $50 routers).
Also glad to see incontrol in a consistent casting spot again. Hopefully this is a success for dlink and they somehow either eventually make live casting happen or pull the play date in really close to the casting date so it's believable that the casters don't know the match results.
lol what a shady announcement, reminds me of NASL s01 with the shitty unprofessional homepage
also really cool not to mention that games are not played live in the op. and instead of lamenting on about the sponsor, one could have explained the organization behind this, i mean sup with the scrappy placed EG logo in the trailer?? lol
props to major and scarlett for keepin it real
"I'll be bringing the casts to you live from our studio in San Francisco, with our co-casters joining me remotely via voice and webcam. " LOL what a fucking scam, i guess this could go by as misleading the stakeholders in various jurisdictions, but hey, did not expect anything l o l
On July 10 2013 10:45 Boucot wrote: I'm fine with Millenium not being invited. Last Mill's appearance in MCSL was pretty much a disaster with a lot of misunderstanding between the admins of both sides about the schedules afaik. This and Stephano who was either absent or doing terrible in his matches, it wasn't good at all. And I prefer them to focus on Acer TeamStory Cup.
But still, nowadays, no qualifiers is a lack in any league (team or individual). Teams like Empire, RoX.KIS, Clarity or Quantic could have been good pretenders to participate.
Eh, Roxkis would have trouble in a four player team league nowadays, don't even think about BO7 Proleague style. But yeah, I miss Empire. Always preferred them over Na'Vi/FXO.
This is really cool to see, looking forward to watching it... though I hope it broadcasts a little earlier than it does tonight so I don't have to stay up that late.
On July 10 2013 11:14 Alexis_Evo wrote: I really hope they manage to keep it under a week delay between when games happen and when they are broadcasted ;(. 5 weeks is way too long!
Agreed.. and I can tell you we will do our best as it is in our best interest to make the games as current as possible!
On July 10 2013 11:03 Larkin wrote: This is really cool to see, looking forward to watching it... though I hope it broadcasts a little earlier than it does tonight so I don't have to stay up that late.
They can't broadcast it earlier because WCS America is on . Blizzard won't let anyone else compete with WCS.
People shouldn't expect a proleague with a different name, logistically it's impossible to have everyone in the same place for such a long period, unless that place is korea.
First of all, good job to all of the people that are involved in it. It is always a good thing to have teamleagues in the West. However Ive got a few criticism.(No confusion im mainly happy with what u guys did)
On July 10 2013 09:04 iNcontroL wrote: We want the SC2L to become the Western world's premier team league.
Isnt it kind of irrelevant, given that the ATC already exists ?
I mean, ATC is live, with a biggest prizepool and most importantly with qualifiers. And if you look at the overall rankings, the currents first 2 teams (Millenium and MVP) had to qualify...
The requirement to be called (according to the WCS system) a Premier Tournament is mainly prizepool and qualifiers spots in individual leagues... why should it be different in teamleagues ?
So what im feeling here is ATC >> SC2L in terms of relevance, but SC2L>>ATC in terms of hosts and venue (live finals).
Okay the hosts of this tournament kick ass, but with cheapest host (like ATC) you can (at the very least) double the prizepool. And cheapest host may be also more flexible so you can cast it live and you dont have this big issue of commentating an irrelevant metagame. You have also more time and can have qualifiers. Finally with other hosts you can give the opportunity to newcomers to begin their casting career.
On July 10 2013 11:17 v_lm wrote: First of all, good job to all of the people that are involved in it. It is always a good thing to have teamleagues in the West. However Ive got a few criticism.(No confusion im mainly happy with what u guys did)
On July 10 2013 09:04 iNcontroL wrote: We want the SC2L to become the Western world's premier team league.
Isnt it kind of irrelevant, given that the ATC already exists ?
I mean, ATC is live, with a biggest prizepool and most importantly with qualifiers. And if you look at the overall rankings, the currents first 2 teams (Millenium and MVP) had to qualify...
The requirement to be called (according to the WCS system) a Premier Tournament is mainly prizepool and qualifiers spots in individual leagues... why should it be different in teamleagues ?
So what im feeling here is ATC >> SC2L in terms of relevance, but SC2L>>ATC in terms of hosts and venue (live finals).
Okay the hosts of this tournament kick ass, but with cheapest host (like ATC) you can (at the very least) double the prizepool.
Im kinda disappointed : you should do either a bigger thing than what already exists or find a partnership with them. Even if its just about having some kind of common ranking to seed teams in the two leagues.
On July 10 2013 11:17 v_lm wrote: First of all, good job to all of the people that are involved in it. It is always a good thing to have teamleagues in the West. However Ive got a few criticism.(No confusion im mainly happy with what u guys did)
On July 10 2013 09:04 iNcontroL wrote: We want the SC2L to become the Western world's premier team league.
Isnt it kind of irrelevant, given that the ATC already exists ?
I mean, ATC is live, with a biggest prizepool and most importantly with qualifiers. And if you look at the overall rankings, the currents first 2 teams (Millenium and MVP) had to qualify...
The requirement to be called (according to the WCS system) a Premier Tournament is mainly prizepool and qualifiers spots in individual leagues... why should it be different in teamleagues ?
So what im feeling here is ATC >> SC2L in terms of relevance, but SC2L>>ATC in terms of hosts and venue (live finals).
Okay the hosts of this tournament kick ass, but with cheapest host (like ATC) you can (at the very least) double the prizepool.
Im kinda disappointed : you should do either a bigger thing than what already exists or find a partnership with them. Even if its just about having some kind of common ranking to seed teams in the two leagues.
ATC has offline finals with the top 4 teams going there, not only top 2
On July 10 2013 11:14 Alexis_Evo wrote: I really hope they manage to keep it under a week delay between when games happen and when they are broadcasted ;(. 5 weeks is way too long!
Agreed.. and I can tell you we will do our best as it is in our best interest to make the games as current as possible!
Awesome news :3. I think 1-2 weeks is a reasonable amount of time, and really look forward to it if you guys can manage this!
On July 10 2013 11:17 Aggnog wrote: People shouldn't expect a proleague with a different name, logistically it's impossible to have everyone in the same place for such a long period, unless that place is korea.
I don't think anyone expects a live in person tournament for this, especially with such a small prize pool. It just isn't logistically possible, lol. But broadcasting 5 week old replays is pretty awful, imagine 5 more weeks of Hellbats ;(.
On July 10 2013 10:45 teddyoojo wrote: atc2? is there anything that puts this sc2l ahead of the atc?
A good english stream!
Also the format, if it is indeed Proleague style with six 1v1 games with a possible ace match. That is by far the best format for team league that benefits teams with a deep roster rather than one or two good players. Pure all-kill format I can take or leave, but ATC has the silly revive rule and getting a second (or third) life for the ace match and it's just too much.
To all the people whining about the age of the replays..... please stop. You didn't even know about this league 4 hours ago.
There's people in this community constantly trying to do what they can to produce content. People that spend the very majority of their time trying to make the scene grow. Trying to satisfy the fans. Without these people we wouldn't have MLG. We wouldn't have DreamHack. We wouldn't have NASL. We wouldn't have SC2L. We wouldn't have any huge tournaments or leagues.
When a league, tournament, event, or anything along those lines, are being announced - it's always going to be some hicups. Who are we to bash the people doing what they can to give us, and note this, free entertainment? How can a thing as positive as a new fucking league become negative, because some of the matches are old?
Yes, 5 weeks is a lot. Yes, it would be better if it was live. I'd take 5 weeks old replays over no content any day of the week. And I'm 100% positive the people actually managing this would prefer a 100% live format, and that they will do their best to at least try to come closer to this format.
It's also been explained (if i understand it correctly), that the matches being 5 weeks old are that old due to delays of the tournament it self. This should prevent future matches from being this delayed, which would mean we're talking about 1-2 matches.
Just be happy there's a new league and stop focusing on this one little detail.
On July 10 2013 11:29 Ajaco92 wrote: To all the people whining about the age of the replays..... please stop. You didn't even know about this league 4 hours ago.
There's people in this community constantly trying to do what they can to produce content. People that spend the very majority of their time trying to make the scene grow. Trying to satisfy the fans. Without these people we wouldn't have MLG. We wouldn't have DreamHack. We wouldn't have NASL. We wouldn't have SC2L. We wouldn't have any huge tournaments or leagues.
When a league, tournament, event, or anything along those lines, are being announced - it's always going to be some hicups. Who are we to bash the people doing what they can to give us, and note this, free entertainment? How can a thing as positive as a new fucking league become negative, because some of the matches are old?
Yes, 5 weeks is a lot. Yes, it would be better if it was live. I'd take 5 weeks old replays over no content any day of the week. And I'm 100% positive the people actually managing this would prefer a 100% live format, and that they will do their best to at least try to come closer to this format.
It's also been explained (if i understand it correctly), that the matches being 5 weeks old are that old due to delays of the tournament it self. This should prevent future matches from being this delayed, which would mean we're talking about 1-2 matches. After that there should be no issues like this, really. ~1 week is expected, unless they manage to do it live (which I believe would be very difficult unless it's lan).
On July 10 2013 11:17 v_lm wrote: First of all, good job to all of the people that are involved in it. It is always a good thing to have teamleagues in the West. However Ive got a few criticism.(No confusion im mainly happy with what u guys did)
On July 10 2013 09:04 iNcontroL wrote: We want the SC2L to become the Western world's premier team league.
Isnt it kind of irrelevant, given that the ATC already exists ?
I mean, ATC is live, with a biggest prizepool and most importantly with qualifiers. And if you look at the overall rankings, the currents first 2 teams (Millenium and MVP) had to qualify...
The requirement to be called (according to the WCS system) a Premier Tournament is mainly prizepool and qualifiers spots in individual leagues... why should it be different in teamleagues ?
So what im feeling here is ATC >> SC2L in terms of relevance, but SC2L>>ATC in terms of hosts and venue (live finals).
Okay the hosts of this tournament kick ass, but with cheapest host (like ATC) you can (at the very least) double the prizepool.
Im kinda disappointed : you should do either a bigger thing than what already exists or find a partnership with them. Even if its just about having some kind of common ranking to seed teams in the two leagues.
Well clearly they should cancel the league or put together some crazy partnership. And its time to complain that this could be have so much cooler if they had gotten a loan from the US government to fund the game and had all the players play live from the roof of a skyscraper. If they are not going to blow it out of the park and be larger than the Super Bowl, why even bother.
Personally, I am disappointed that Artosis and DJWheat won't be flying out and living with Geoff to make sure the casting is top notch. Living with him will allow for the highest level of synergy and allow for the best quality case. I mean, I am aware they have children and families and Anna will have to move out, but they should put casting first.
I was expecting more from EG, like Geoff casting while sitting in the hand of the giant robot from Pacific Rim. I am just disappointed now.
On July 10 2013 11:17 v_lm wrote: First of all, good job to all of the people that are involved in it. It is always a good thing to have teamleagues in the West. However Ive got a few criticism.(No confusion im mainly happy with what u guys did)
On July 10 2013 09:04 iNcontroL wrote: We want the SC2L to become the Western world's premier team league.
Isnt it kind of irrelevant, given that the ATC already exists ?
I mean, ATC is live, with a biggest prizepool and most importantly with qualifiers. And if you look at the overall rankings, the currents first 2 teams (Millenium and MVP) had to qualify...
The requirement to be called (according to the WCS system) a Premier Tournament is mainly prizepool and qualifiers spots in individual leagues... why should it be different in teamleagues ?
So what im feeling here is ATC >> SC2L in terms of relevance, but SC2L>>ATC in terms of hosts and venue (live finals).
Okay the hosts of this tournament kick ass, but with cheapest host (like ATC) you can (at the very least) double the prizepool.
Im kinda disappointed : you should do either a bigger thing than what already exists or find a partnership with them. Even if its just about having some kind of common ranking to seed teams in the two leagues.
ATC entire playoffs will be live in germany
Yeah but live from a specific venue ? With specific casters ? Anyway all I meant is that while ATC is giving more importance to the competition and is basically rewarding performance, S2L is betting on having more exposure with star-casters and a live finals at Dreamhack. As a fan it is very frustrating to have both. Even more frustrating than GSTL/Proleague because in the end no teams are competing in both of those.
actually im really curious about axiom here, either they get atleast 2 new players (which they kinda shouldve already had because as i understood the first games have been played weeks before that), or they use standins (or genna and john play lolo)
I was expecting more from EG, like Geoff casting while sitting in the hand of the giant robot from Pacific Rim. I am just disappointed now.
You make fun of me but the main reason the prizepool is not that high and that they have huge schedule trouble which results in commentating 1 month old replays and not having qualifiers is that they focus on having star casters.
On July 10 2013 11:29 Ajaco92 wrote: To all the people whining about the age of the replays..... please stop. You didn't even know about this league 4 hours ago.
There's people in this community constantly trying to do what they can to produce content. People that spend the very majority of their time trying to make the scene grow. Trying to satisfy the fans. Without these people we wouldn't have MLG. We wouldn't have DreamHack. We wouldn't have NASL. We wouldn't have SC2L. We wouldn't have any huge tournaments or leagues.
When a league, tournament, event, or anything along those lines, are being announced - it's always going to be some hicups. Who are we to bash the people doing what they can to give us, and note this, free entertainment? How can a thing as positive as a new fucking league become negative, because some of the matches are old?
Yes, 5 weeks is a lot. Yes, it would be better if it was live. I'd take 5 weeks old replays over no content any day of the week. And I'm 100% positive the people actually managing this would prefer a 100% live format, and that they will do their best to at least try to come closer to this format.
It's also been explained (if i understand it correctly), that the matches being 5 weeks old are that old due to delays of the tournament it self. This should prevent future matches from being this delayed, which would mean we're talking about 1-2 matches.
Just be happy there's a new league and stop focusing on this one little detail.
Oh my goodness this 100%. I'm just super stoked we are getting a new team league. I don't have any problems with them being cast from replays, especially if it means more Starcraft.
I was expecting more from EG, like Geoff casting while sitting in the hand of the giant robot from Pacific Rim. I am just disappointed now.
You make fun of me but the main reason the prizepool is not that high and that they have huge schedule trouble which results in commentating 1 month old replays and not having qualifiers is that they focus on having star casters.
I am mocking you because your expectations are unreasonable and deserve to be mocked. They are using old replays because of a delay in production, nothing more. Stop trolling up the thread by comparing it to another league that has nothing to do with it and saying they should have even tried because it won't be the "best thing ever".
On July 10 2013 11:29 Ajaco92 wrote: To all the people whining about the age of the replays..... please stop. You didn't even know about this league 4 hours ago.
There's people in this community constantly trying to do what they can to produce content. People that spend the very majority of their time trying to make the scene grow. Trying to satisfy the fans. Without these people we wouldn't have MLG. We wouldn't have DreamHack. We wouldn't have NASL. We wouldn't have SC2L. We wouldn't have any huge tournaments or leagues.
When a league, tournament, event, or anything along those lines, are being announced - it's always going to be some hicups. Who are we to bash the people doing what they can to give us, and note this, free entertainment? How can a thing as positive as a new fucking league become negative, because some of the matches are old?
Yes, 5 weeks is a lot. Yes, it would be better if it was live. I'd take 5 weeks old replays over no content any day of the week. And I'm 100% positive the people actually managing this would prefer a 100% live format, and that they will do their best to at least try to come closer to this format.
It's also been explained (if i understand it correctly), that the matches being 5 weeks old are that old due to delays of the tournament it self. This should prevent future matches from being this delayed, which would mean we're talking about 1-2 matches.
Just be happy there's a new league and stop focusing on this one little detail.
Oh my goodness this 100%. I'm just super stoked we are getting a new team league. I don't have any problems with them being cast from replays, especially if it means more Starcraft.
Except, after 3 years of SC2, we shouldn't have to "settle" anymore.
On July 10 2013 11:29 Ajaco92 wrote: To all the people whining about the age of the replays..... please stop. You didn't even know about this league 4 hours ago.
There's people in this community constantly trying to do what they can to produce content. People that spend the very majority of their time trying to make the scene grow. Trying to satisfy the fans. Without these people we wouldn't have MLG. We wouldn't have DreamHack. We wouldn't have NASL. We wouldn't have SC2L. We wouldn't have any huge tournaments or leagues.
When a league, tournament, event, or anything along those lines, are being announced - it's always going to be some hicups. Who are we to bash the people doing what they can to give us, and note this, free entertainment? How can a thing as positive as a new fucking league become negative, because some of the matches are old?
Yes, 5 weeks is a lot. Yes, it would be better if it was live. I'd take 5 weeks old replays over no content any day of the week. And I'm 100% positive the people actually managing this would prefer a 100% live format, and that they will do their best to at least try to come closer to this format.
It's also been explained (if i understand it correctly), that the matches being 5 weeks old are that old due to delays of the tournament it self. This should prevent future matches from being this delayed, which would mean we're talking about 1-2 matches.
Just be happy there's a new league and stop focusing on this one little detail.
Oh my goodness this 100%. I'm just super stoked we are getting a new team league. I don't have any problems with them being cast from replays, especially if it means more Starcraft.
Except, after 3 years of SC2, we shouldn't have to "settle" anymore.
I am sorry, after three years did we invent time travel or the ability to control the sun? Little has change in how time moves and that all these players are not in the same place.
Im not expecting "the best thing ever". But im expecting "the best thing ever with what theyve got", or, if you will, "the best philosophy ever". I think ATC is way closest to the best philosophy ever than S2L is. I think its always good to compare.
PS : If they want to run "The Premier Teamleague int the West" of course. If they want to run a fun league with great hosts and nice shows, Im OK with that.
On July 10 2013 09:04 iNcontroL wrote: We want the SC2L to become the Western world's premier team league.
Well, good luck with that
It's great to see more teams leagues, but:
-no qualifier / only invited teams. Where is Millenium actually first in ATC? what about Quantic?
-Broadcast hour is horrible for Europeans, even worse than Korean leagues
-Axiom got only 4 players, so they are allowed to play more than 1 map per player? what will stop Liquid to put HerO on each map (just an example)?
The broadcast hour is actually terrible for anywhere but US west coast. I am US east and will try to watch but will probably fall asleep during the first game. Guess its difficult with WCS around, I kinda wish there was a bit more of an offseason.
On July 10 2013 11:29 Ajaco92 wrote: To all the people whining about the age of the replays..... please stop. You didn't even know about this league 4 hours ago.
There's people in this community constantly trying to do what they can to produce content. People that spend the very majority of their time trying to make the scene grow. Trying to satisfy the fans. Without these people we wouldn't have MLG. We wouldn't have DreamHack. We wouldn't have NASL. We wouldn't have SC2L. We wouldn't have any huge tournaments or leagues.
When a league, tournament, event, or anything along those lines, are being announced - it's always going to be some hicups. Who are we to bash the people doing what they can to give us, and note this, free entertainment? How can a thing as positive as a new fucking league become negative, because some of the matches are old?
Yes, 5 weeks is a lot. Yes, it would be better if it was live. I'd take 5 weeks old replays over no content any day of the week. And I'm 100% positive the people actually managing this would prefer a 100% live format, and that they will do their best to at least try to come closer to this format.
It's also been explained (if i understand it correctly), that the matches being 5 weeks old are that old due to delays of the tournament it self. This should prevent future matches from being this delayed, which would mean we're talking about 1-2 matches.
Just be happy there's a new league and stop focusing on this one little detail.
Oh my goodness this 100%. I'm just super stoked we are getting a new team league. I don't have any problems with them being cast from replays, especially if it means more Starcraft.
Except, after 3 years of SC2, we shouldn't have to "settle" anymore.
I'm just curious if you feel like you're entitled to this kind of content? Because your statement really makes me wonder if you're taking all this for granted. Expecting nothing but perfect, while in reality you don't really contribute anything.
On July 10 2013 09:04 iNcontroL wrote: We want the SC2L to become the Western world's premier team league.
Well, good luck with that
It's great to see more teams leagues, but:
-no qualifier / only invited teams. Where is Millenium actually first in ATC? what about Quantic?
-Broadcast hour is horrible for Europeans, even worse than Korean leagues
-Axiom got only 4 players, so they are allowed to play more than 1 map per player? what will stop Liquid to put HerO on each map (just an example)?
The broadcast hour is actually terrible for anywhere but US west coast. I am US east and will try to watch but will probably fall asleep during the first game. Guess its difficult with WCS around, I kinda wish there was a bit more of an offseason.
It's pretty good for KR time zone and nearby. So it's alright with me :p
On July 10 2013 11:44 v_lm wrote: Im not expecting "the best thing ever". But im expecting "the best thing ever with what theyve got", or, if you will, "the best philosophy ever". I think ATC is way closest to the best philosophy ever than S2L is. I think its always good to compare.
You didn't compare, you shit on the entire event. You opened with:
"Isnt it kind of irrelevant, given that the ATC already exists ?"
and then processed to complain about the qualifiers, teams, prize poll, how relevant the tournament is and so on. That's not comparing, you are just insulting the event because you can.
So if you like ATC more, great. Go watch it and stop complaining.
On July 10 2013 11:29 Ajaco92 wrote: To all the people whining about the age of the replays..... please stop. You didn't even know about this league 4 hours ago.
There's people in this community constantly trying to do what they can to produce content. People that spend the very majority of their time trying to make the scene grow. Trying to satisfy the fans. Without these people we wouldn't have MLG. We wouldn't have DreamHack. We wouldn't have NASL. We wouldn't have SC2L. We wouldn't have any huge tournaments or leagues.
When a league, tournament, event, or anything along those lines, are being announced - it's always going to be some hicups. Who are we to bash the people doing what they can to give us, and note this, free entertainment? How can a thing as positive as a new fucking league become negative, because some of the matches are old?
Yes, 5 weeks is a lot. Yes, it would be better if it was live. I'd take 5 weeks old replays over no content any day of the week. And I'm 100% positive the people actually managing this would prefer a 100% live format, and that they will do their best to at least try to come closer to this format.
It's also been explained (if i understand it correctly), that the matches being 5 weeks old are that old due to delays of the tournament it self. This should prevent future matches from being this delayed, which would mean we're talking about 1-2 matches.
Just be happy there's a new league and stop focusing on this one little detail.
Oh my goodness this 100%. I'm just super stoked we are getting a new team league. I don't have any problems with them being cast from replays, especially if it means more Starcraft.
Except, after 3 years of SC2, we shouldn't have to "settle" anymore.
I am sorry, after three years did we invent time travel or the ability to control the sun? Little has change in how time moves and that all these players are not in the same place.
Ok, but 4-5 weeks or more is somehow acceptable for what is trying to be touted as a "premier" league? No, it isn't. I get that this is a special circumstance and it looks like we probably won't have to deal with more than a week (which is totally acceptable) but this is not a great launch.
There's so much other great SC2 content out there, why should I have to settle for an inferior product? Especially one that's on at a horrendous time for my time zone?
Look, I want a league like this to do well, I think growing NA scene is good, but I just think the start of this league is not a very good one. Maybe when/if replays get caught up this season I'll start watching.
On July 10 2013 11:48 deceptionx wrote: 5 week old replays is pretty ridiculous. Nice of you to organize this but TBH there's really no interest to me with replays that old.
Only the first team match is that old and then the other one is 2 weeks old or so. The other matches after that have not been played and will be a lot fresher.
On July 10 2013 11:48 deceptionx wrote: 5 week old replays is pretty ridiculous. Nice of you to organize this but TBH there's really no interest to me with replays that old.
On July 10 2013 11:29 Ajaco92 wrote: To all the people whining about the age of the replays..... please stop. You didn't even know about this league 4 hours ago.
There's people in this community constantly trying to do what they can to produce content. People that spend the very majority of their time trying to make the scene grow. Trying to satisfy the fans. Without these people we wouldn't have MLG. We wouldn't have DreamHack. We wouldn't have NASL. We wouldn't have SC2L. We wouldn't have any huge tournaments or leagues.
When a league, tournament, event, or anything along those lines, are being announced - it's always going to be some hicups. Who are we to bash the people doing what they can to give us, and note this, free entertainment? How can a thing as positive as a new fucking league become negative, because some of the matches are old?
Yes, 5 weeks is a lot. Yes, it would be better if it was live. I'd take 5 weeks old replays over no content any day of the week. And I'm 100% positive the people actually managing this would prefer a 100% live format, and that they will do their best to at least try to come closer to this format.
It's also been explained (if i understand it correctly), that the matches being 5 weeks old are that old due to delays of the tournament it self. This should prevent future matches from being this delayed, which would mean we're talking about 1-2 matches.
Just be happy there's a new league and stop focusing on this one little detail.
Oh my goodness this 100%. I'm just super stoked we are getting a new team league. I don't have any problems with them being cast from replays, especially if it means more Starcraft.
Except, after 3 years of SC2, we shouldn't have to "settle" anymore.
I am sorry, after three years did we invent time travel or the ability to control the sun? Little has change in how time moves and that all these players are not in the same place.
Ok, but 4-5 weeks or more is somehow acceptable for what is trying to be touted as a "premier" league? No, it isn't. I get that this is a special circumstance and it looks like we probably won't have to deal with more than a week (which is totally acceptable) but this is not a great launch.
There's so much other great SC2 content out there, why should I have to settle for an inferior product?
For one week and they admitted it was a mistake on their part. People make mistakes and then we forgive them and move on. They also said they would like to become a "premier" league in the future.
And your right, you don't have to settle, because you don't have to watch. If the 5 week old replay offends you that much, I recommend you avoid the first week and come back when it is up to your high standards. No one is forcing you.
And it is in a terrible time zone for me too, but I accept that everything will not be in a good time zone for me(Dreamhack)
You didn't compare, you shit on the entire event. You opened with:
"Isnt it kind of irrelevant, given that the ATC already exists ?"
and then processed to complain about the qualifiers, teams, prize poll, how relevant the tournament is and so on. That's not comparing, you are just insulting the event because you can.
So if you like ATC more, great. Go watch it and stop complaining.
I was answering to IncontroL saying "We want it to be the Premier Teamleague in the West". So yeah, it IS irrelevant, in my opinion, and I found relevant to say that. Now, I dont "shit on them" or blame them... whatever.
In fact I cant blame them their sponsors must have say "OK we want to run a teamleague with Day9 Artosis and DJwheat casting. We give you XXXXX dollars" So with the busy schedules of the star casters they couldnt run it live neither run qualifiers, and with the amount of money that is the casters salary they had to give a really modest prizepool. So OK its nice to have a teamleague but the philosophy of the S2L is clearly : "Lets have some fun and exposure with starcasters, lets invite our friend TBs team Axiom even if they dont have the required number of players to compete, lets say its a Premier Teamleague". And I dont agree with that.
On July 10 2013 11:29 Ajaco92 wrote: To all the people whining about the age of the replays..... please stop. You didn't even know about this league 4 hours ago.
There's people in this community constantly trying to do what they can to produce content. People that spend the very majority of their time trying to make the scene grow. Trying to satisfy the fans. Without these people we wouldn't have MLG. We wouldn't have DreamHack. We wouldn't have NASL. We wouldn't have SC2L. We wouldn't have any huge tournaments or leagues.
When a league, tournament, event, or anything along those lines, are being announced - it's always going to be some hicups. Who are we to bash the people doing what they can to give us, and note this, free entertainment? How can a thing as positive as a new fucking league become negative, because some of the matches are old?
Yes, 5 weeks is a lot. Yes, it would be better if it was live. I'd take 5 weeks old replays over no content any day of the week. And I'm 100% positive the people actually managing this would prefer a 100% live format, and that they will do their best to at least try to come closer to this format.
It's also been explained (if i understand it correctly), that the matches being 5 weeks old are that old due to delays of the tournament it self. This should prevent future matches from being this delayed, which would mean we're talking about 1-2 matches.
Just be happy there's a new league and stop focusing on this one little detail.
Oh my goodness this 100%. I'm just super stoked we are getting a new team league. I don't have any problems with them being cast from replays, especially if it means more Starcraft.
Except, after 3 years of SC2, we shouldn't have to "settle" anymore.
I am sorry, after three years did we invent time travel or the ability to control the sun? Little has change in how time moves and that all these players are not in the same place.
Ok, but 4-5 weeks or more is somehow acceptable for what is trying to be touted as a "premier" league? No, it isn't. I get that this is a special circumstance and it looks like we probably won't have to deal with more than a week (which is totally acceptable) but this is not a great launch.
There's so much other great SC2 content out there, why should I have to settle for an inferior product?
For one week and they admitted it was a mistake on their part. People make mistakes and then we forgive them and move on. They also said they would like to become a "premier" league in the future.
And your right, you don't have to settle, because you don't have to watch. If the 5 week old replay offends you that much, I recommend you avoid the first week and come back when it is up to your high standards. No one is forcing you.
And it is in a terrible time zone for me too, but I accept that everything will not be in a good time zone for me(Dreamhack)
It's just not a great start. After 3 freaking years of SC2, standards SHOULD be high. If people keep saying "well, this is good enough just appreciate what we have!" things will just remain stagnant. It's not about being entitled (as one other poster already called me, lol) it's about wanting things done right from the start and then continuously improving. SC2 has been around long enough to expect that, especially for a league that wants to become "premier".
Having said that, team leagues for western teams (with an NA focus) can only be good for NA SC2. I just hope it comes together better.
Actually, I think my biggest problem with all this is Blizzard saying that this absolutely cannot be broadcast at a time that interferes with WCS. ?????? Way to grow NA scene by forcing out everything that isn't WCS KR #2
Also, I highly doubt a $200 "gaming" router would really make much difference to the generic viewer. It -might- be good for something like a team house, but honestly, I think a good ol' $50 router would suffice with zero problems. Even at $174 (includes the $6 discount and the $20 newegg credit), it's far too steep for the average consumer...
Nice seeing a new -cough- team league though.
@Krazy Honestly, the SC2 scene isn't really that large. Plus, this isn't like a huge tournament. It's a fairly large western team league, but this isn't Pro-League. There aren't tons of people being paid to keep everything looking nice and clean. I'd agree that some things could be improved upon quite easily, but does it -really- matter? The matches and fun casting should be the biggest concern.
On July 10 2013 11:59 Blargh wrote: wtf the discount was only $6.00...
Also, I highly doubt a $200 "gaming" router would really make much difference to the generic viewer. It -might- be good for something like a team house, but honestly, I think a good ol' $50 router would suffice with zero problems. Even at $174 (includes the $6 discount and the $20 newegg credit), it's far too steep for the average consumer...
Nice seeing a new -cough- team league though.
Yea that router is insanely overpriced. There have been "gaming" routers in the past, they really don't do anything special that a regular $50 linksys can't do.
Reminds me of all those gaming NIC cards that claimed you got higher fps and lower ping.
On July 10 2013 11:29 Ajaco92 wrote: To all the people whining about the age of the replays..... please stop. You didn't even know about this league 4 hours ago.
There's people in this community constantly trying to do what they can to produce content. People that spend the very majority of their time trying to make the scene grow. Trying to satisfy the fans. Without these people we wouldn't have MLG. We wouldn't have DreamHack. We wouldn't have NASL. We wouldn't have SC2L. We wouldn't have any huge tournaments or leagues.
When a league, tournament, event, or anything along those lines, are being announced - it's always going to be some hicups. Who are we to bash the people doing what they can to give us, and note this, free entertainment? How can a thing as positive as a new fucking league become negative, because some of the matches are old?
Yes, 5 weeks is a lot. Yes, it would be better if it was live. I'd take 5 weeks old replays over no content any day of the week. And I'm 100% positive the people actually managing this would prefer a 100% live format, and that they will do their best to at least try to come closer to this format.
It's also been explained (if i understand it correctly), that the matches being 5 weeks old are that old due to delays of the tournament it self. This should prevent future matches from being this delayed, which would mean we're talking about 1-2 matches.
Just be happy there's a new league and stop focusing on this one little detail.
Oh my goodness this 100%. I'm just super stoked we are getting a new team league. I don't have any problems with them being cast from replays, especially if it means more Starcraft.
Except, after 3 years of SC2, we shouldn't have to "settle" anymore.
I am sorry, after three years did we invent time travel or the ability to control the sun? Little has change in how time moves and that all these players are not in the same place.
Ok, but 4-5 weeks or more is somehow acceptable for what is trying to be touted as a "premier" league? No, it isn't. I get that this is a special circumstance and it looks like we probably won't have to deal with more than a week (which is totally acceptable) but this is not a great launch.
There's so much other great SC2 content out there, why should I have to settle for an inferior product?
For one week and they admitted it was a mistake on their part. People make mistakes and then we forgive them and move on. They also said they would like to become a "premier" league in the future.
And your right, you don't have to settle, because you don't have to watch. If the 5 week old replay offends you that much, I recommend you avoid the first week and come back when it is up to your high standards. No one is forcing you.
And it is in a terrible time zone for me too, but I accept that everything will not be in a good time zone for me(Dreamhack)
It's just not a great start. After 3 freaking years of SC2, standards SHOULD be high. If people keep saying "well, this is good enough just appreciate what we have!" things will just remain stagnant. It's not about being entitled (as one other poster already called me, lol) it's about wanting things done right from the start and then continuously improving. SC2 has been around long enough to expect that, especially for a league that wants to become "premier".
Having said that, team leagues for western teams (with an NA focus) can only be good for NA SC2. I just hope it comes together better.
Eh, just admit it your being a little unforgiving for their first week out. Expecting things to be prefect is nice, but I don't see people jumping up and down on Dreamhack when that spinning logo goes up for the 43rd time or they have 3 hours of downtime.
Yes it has been three years and stuff in NA is a still a little behind the ball. But maybe we should save the criticism until after the first broadcast.
You didn't compare, you shit on the entire event. You opened with:
"Isnt it kind of irrelevant, given that the ATC already exists ?"
and then processed to complain about the qualifiers, teams, prize poll, how relevant the tournament is and so on. That's not comparing, you are just insulting the event because you can.
So if you like ATC more, great. Go watch it and stop complaining.
I was answering to IncontroL saying "We want it to be the Premier Teamleague in the West". So yeah, it IS irrelevant, in my opinion, and I found relevant to say that. Now, I dont "shit on them" or blame them... whatever.
In fact I cant blame them their sponsors must have say "OK we want to run a teamleague with Day9 Artosis and DJwheat casting. We give you XXXXX dollars" So with the busy schedules of the star casters they couldnt run it live neither run qualifiers, and with the amount of money that is the casters salary they had to give a really modest prizepool. So OK its nice to have a teamleague but the philosophy of the S2L is clearly : "Lets have some fun and exposure with starcasters, lets invite our friend TBs team Axiom even if they dont have the required number of players to compete, lets say its a Premier Teamleague". And I dont agree with that.
Luck for you, you do not need to watch. It is clearly a league focused on a few specific leagues that have their roots in NA and if you don't like it, there is plenty of other leagues for you to enjoy.
On July 10 2013 11:29 Ajaco92 wrote: To all the people whining about the age of the replays..... please stop. You didn't even know about this league 4 hours ago.
There's people in this community constantly trying to do what they can to produce content. People that spend the very majority of their time trying to make the scene grow. Trying to satisfy the fans. Without these people we wouldn't have MLG. We wouldn't have DreamHack. We wouldn't have NASL. We wouldn't have SC2L. We wouldn't have any huge tournaments or leagues.
When a league, tournament, event, or anything along those lines, are being announced - it's always going to be some hicups. Who are we to bash the people doing what they can to give us, and note this, free entertainment? How can a thing as positive as a new fucking league become negative, because some of the matches are old?
Yes, 5 weeks is a lot. Yes, it would be better if it was live. I'd take 5 weeks old replays over no content any day of the week. And I'm 100% positive the people actually managing this would prefer a 100% live format, and that they will do their best to at least try to come closer to this format.
It's also been explained (if i understand it correctly), that the matches being 5 weeks old are that old due to delays of the tournament it self. This should prevent future matches from being this delayed, which would mean we're talking about 1-2 matches.
Just be happy there's a new league and stop focusing on this one little detail.
Oh my goodness this 100%. I'm just super stoked we are getting a new team league. I don't have any problems with them being cast from replays, especially if it means more Starcraft.
Except, after 3 years of SC2, we shouldn't have to "settle" anymore.
I am sorry, after three years did we invent time travel or the ability to control the sun? Little has change in how time moves and that all these players are not in the same place.
Ok, but 4-5 weeks or more is somehow acceptable for what is trying to be touted as a "premier" league? No, it isn't. I get that this is a special circumstance and it looks like we probably won't have to deal with more than a week (which is totally acceptable) but this is not a great launch.
There's so much other great SC2 content out there, why should I have to settle for an inferior product?
For one week and they admitted it was a mistake on their part. People make mistakes and then we forgive them and move on. They also said they would like to become a "premier" league in the future.
And your right, you don't have to settle, because you don't have to watch. If the 5 week old replay offends you that much, I recommend you avoid the first week and come back when it is up to your high standards. No one is forcing you.
And it is in a terrible time zone for me too, but I accept that everything will not be in a good time zone for me(Dreamhack)
It's just not a great start. After 3 freaking years of SC2, standards SHOULD be high. If people keep saying "well, this is good enough just appreciate what we have!" things will just remain stagnant. It's not about being entitled (as one other poster already called me, lol) it's about wanting things done right from the start and then continuously improving. SC2 has been around long enough to expect that, especially for a league that wants to become "premier".
Having said that, team leagues for western teams (with an NA focus) can only be good for NA SC2. I just hope it comes together better.
Eh, just admit it your being a little unforgiving for their first week out. Expecting things to be prefect is nice, but I don't see people jumping up and down on Dreamhack when that spinning logo goes up for the 43rd time or they have 3 hours of downtime.
Yes it has been three years and stuff in NA is a still a little behind the ball. But maybe we should save the criticism until after the first broadcast.
I will not admit this.
Anyway, standard TL. "Agree with the hive mind or else!" Nothing surprising here
Lol, like somebody already mentioned, this is basically those old EG Masters Cups Leagues that nobody honestly really cared about. The fact that in this current climate of SC2 tournaments and the general scene as it is, that they will be casting from replays is just so ridiculous. Heh, "hype" indeed.
You didn't compare, you shit on the entire event. You opened with:
"Isnt it kind of irrelevant, given that the ATC already exists ?"
and then processed to complain about the qualifiers, teams, prize poll, how relevant the tournament is and so on. That's not comparing, you are just insulting the event because you can.
So if you like ATC more, great. Go watch it and stop complaining.
I was answering to IncontroL saying "We want it to be the Premier Teamleague in the West". So yeah, it IS irrelevant, in my opinion, and I found relevant to say that. Now, I dont "shit on them" or blame them... whatever.
In fact I cant blame them their sponsors must have say "OK we want to run a teamleague with Day9 Artosis and DJwheat casting. We give you XXXXX dollars" So with the busy schedules of the star casters they couldnt run it live neither run qualifiers, and with the amount of money that is the casters salary they had to give a really modest prizepool. So OK its nice to have a teamleague but the philosophy of the S2L is clearly : "Lets have some fun and exposure with starcasters, lets invite our friend TBs team Axiom even if they dont have the required number of players to compete, lets say its a Premier Teamleague". And I dont agree with that.
Luck for you, you do not need to watch. It is clearly a league focused on a few specific leagues that have their roots in NA and if you don't like it, there is plenty of other leagues for you to enjoy.
On July 10 2013 11:17 v_lm wrote: First of all, good job to all of the people that are involved in it. It is always a good thing to have teamleagues in the West. However Ive got a few criticism.(No confusion im mainly happy with what u guys did)
On July 10 2013 09:04 iNcontroL wrote: We want the SC2L to become the Western world's premier team league.
Isnt it kind of irrelevant, given that the ATC already exists ?
I mean, ATC is live, with a biggest prizepool and most importantly with qualifiers. And if you look at the overall rankings, the currents first 2 teams (Millenium and MVP) had to qualify...
The requirement to be called (according to the WCS system) a Premier Tournament is mainly prizepool and qualifiers spots in individual leagues... why should it be different in teamleagues ?
So what im feeling here is ATC >> SC2L in terms of relevance, but SC2L>>ATC in terms of hosts and venue (live finals).
Okay the hosts of this tournament kick ass, but with cheapest host (like ATC) you can (at the very least) double the prizepool.
Im kinda disappointed : you should do either a bigger thing than what already exists or find a partnership with them. Even if its just about having some kind of common ranking to seed teams in the two leagues.
Well clearly they should cancel the league or put together some crazy partnership. And its time to complain that this could be have so much cooler if they had gotten a loan from the US government to fund the game and had all the players play live from the roof of a skyscraper. If they are not going to blow it out of the park and be larger than the Super Bowl, why even bother.
Personally, I am disappointed that Artosis and DJWheat won't be flying out and living with Geoff to make sure the casting is top notch. Living with him will allow for the highest level of synergy and allow for the best quality case. I mean, I am aware they have children and families and Anna will have to move out, but they should put casting first.
I was expecting more from EG, like Geoff casting while sitting in the hand of the giant robot from Pacific Rim. I am just disappointed now.
You pretty much made my day with this. This level of sarcasm and humor combined is pretty much art. Bravo. Also i don't know of any of these leagues that for their initial broadcast was perfect and high lvl. even the mlg's and dreamhacks had to start somewhere and grow. Also its not like this league was kickstarted so i don't feel people have a right to Demand anything from it. As to me I'll watch it if axiom is there and i adore djwheat, day9 and artosis, and incontrol. If they threw in Totalbiscuit that would be like my casting dream stream. Having a nice english stream with fun matches...hell yeah!
You didn't compare, you shit on the entire event. You opened with:
"Isnt it kind of irrelevant, given that the ATC already exists ?"
and then processed to complain about the qualifiers, teams, prize poll, how relevant the tournament is and so on. That's not comparing, you are just insulting the event because you can.
So if you like ATC more, great. Go watch it and stop complaining.
I was answering to IncontroL saying "We want it to be the Premier Teamleague in the West". So yeah, it IS irrelevant, in my opinion, and I found relevant to say that. Now, I dont "shit on them" or blame them... whatever.
In fact I cant blame them their sponsors must have say "OK we want to run a teamleague with Day9 Artosis and DJwheat casting. We give you XXXXX dollars" So with the busy schedules of the star casters they couldnt run it live neither run qualifiers, and with the amount of money that is the casters salary they had to give a really modest prizepool. So OK its nice to have a teamleague but the philosophy of the S2L is clearly : "Lets have some fun and exposure with starcasters, lets invite our friend TBs team Axiom even if they dont have the required number of players to compete, lets say its a Premier Teamleague". And I dont agree with that.
Luck for you, you do not need to watch. It is clearly a league focused on a few specific leagues that have their roots in NA and if you don't like it, there is plenty of other leagues for you to enjoy.
Axiom & Acer have so deep roots in NA
TB is in NA and came up with the idea to sponsor Korea players while Crank stayed at his house after an MLG. That's enough for me, even if all the players are in Korea.
You didn't compare, you shit on the entire event. You opened with:
"Isnt it kind of irrelevant, given that the ATC already exists ?"
and then processed to complain about the qualifiers, teams, prize poll, how relevant the tournament is and so on. That's not comparing, you are just insulting the event because you can.
So if you like ATC more, great. Go watch it and stop complaining.
I was answering to IncontroL saying "We want it to be the Premier Teamleague in the West". So yeah, it IS irrelevant, in my opinion, and I found relevant to say that. Now, I dont "shit on them" or blame them... whatever.
In fact I cant blame them their sponsors must have say "OK we want to run a teamleague with Day9 Artosis and DJwheat casting. We give you XXXXX dollars" So with the busy schedules of the star casters they couldnt run it live neither run qualifiers, and with the amount of money that is the casters salary they had to give a really modest prizepool. So OK its nice to have a teamleague but the philosophy of the S2L is clearly : "Lets have some fun and exposure with starcasters, lets invite our friend TBs team Axiom even if they dont have the required number of players to compete, lets say its a Premier Teamleague". And I dont agree with that.
Luck for you, you do not need to watch. It is clearly a league focused on a few specific leagues that have their roots in NA and if you don't like it, there is plenty of other leagues for you to enjoy.
Axiom & Acer have so deep roots in NA
TB is in NA and came up with the idea to sponsor Korea players while Crank stayed at his house after an MLG. That's enough for me, even if all the players are in Korea.
You didn't compare, you shit on the entire event. You opened with:
"Isnt it kind of irrelevant, given that the ATC already exists ?"
and then processed to complain about the qualifiers, teams, prize poll, how relevant the tournament is and so on. That's not comparing, you are just insulting the event because you can.
So if you like ATC more, great. Go watch it and stop complaining.
I was answering to IncontroL saying "We want it to be the Premier Teamleague in the West". So yeah, it IS irrelevant, in my opinion, and I found relevant to say that. Now, I dont "shit on them" or blame them... whatever.
In fact I cant blame them their sponsors must have say "OK we want to run a teamleague with Day9 Artosis and DJwheat casting. We give you XXXXX dollars" So with the busy schedules of the star casters they couldnt run it live neither run qualifiers, and with the amount of money that is the casters salary they had to give a really modest prizepool. So OK its nice to have a teamleague but the philosophy of the S2L is clearly : "Lets have some fun and exposure with starcasters, lets invite our friend TBs team Axiom even if they dont have the required number of players to compete, lets say its a Premier Teamleague". And I dont agree with that.
Luck for you, you do not need to watch. It is clearly a league focused on a few specific leagues that have their roots in NA and if you don't like it, there is plenty of other leagues for you to enjoy.
Axiom & Acer have so deep roots in NA
TB is in NA and came up with the idea to sponsor Korea players while Crank stayed at his house after an MLG. That's enough for me, even if all the players are in Korea.
you sure are ready for everything and anything
I am the lord of retaining useless facts(note, I may have gotten the specifics of Axiom inception off a bit) and Esports is filled with useless stuff. And I am from Boston, there isn't a single player on the Bruins that is from the US, but we keep acting like they are our team.
On July 10 2013 12:09 v_lm wrote: "if you don't like it, there is plenty of other leagues for you to enjoy." No actually.
There is ATC, you said. You can watch that when it is on, because it is of the quality you enjoy. Everyone gets the product they want.
I just want to see esports growing in the right direction "as a whole". At the risk of investing time and money they should run it differently (I think).
Just saw the line-up on the Day[9] daily for the first match, and it looks like they can play a player twice in every match, because ROOT is sending out YuGiOh twice, unless the lineup he has is incorrect.
On July 10 2013 12:19 SnowfaLL wrote: hmmm any coincidence/relation to the famous WC3L?? Probably the best team league ever not run by Kespa.. I think this could be a big success.
Nah I dont think so, maybe just a coincidence. SC2L is probably the substitute for the EGMCTL, I say that because the formats of the sites are almost identical.
My name is Dustin -- I'm the Web Marketing Manager at D-Link (if mods would like credentials to legitimize this -- please just ask, I will provide.)
I'm also a master level Zerg player (still pretty scrubby) and an enormous fan of eSports. I wanted to post this for a few reasons:
1. I want to give D-Link eSports a face and some sort of transparency. Yes, we are a large corporation. But there are real, hardcore gamers on our core consumer marketing team. We aren't drones. When I heard the Gaming Router was in the pipeline, I knew it was our chance to take our first step into the world of eSports, a world I have been a part of since 1998. I fought for this budget and I am so thrilled and proud to be able to help sponsor an event I believe in, and a passion that I know we all share.
2. I want to answer questions about our Gaming Router as truthfully as I possibly can. This is the internets, and so I know I will get trolled and our router will at times be mocked; however, this is an exciting product that will make a tangible difference on your (and your family's / gf's / bf's / roomie's) online experiences. We are the first networking company to partner with Qualcomm to use their new StreamBoost chip. It is not just a buzzword -- there are demos of its abilities vs. other leading routers on the web. I don't want to be a slick salesman -- I want to answer questions should you have them.
3. We are looking to sponsor LAN parties and events, big and small -- feel free to contact me here.
4. Finally, I just wanted to say I hope this is the beginning of a long and fruitful relationship between D-Link and eSports. I, for one, am in it for the long-haul and will always fight for budget, visibility, and increased participation.
Feel free to PM or ask questions related to the Gaming Router if you so please. I'll check this thread and my inbox often. I'm going to leave all SC2L matters in the very capable hands of the EG staff. Can't wait to tune in tonight and rage against the efficiency of bio/mine (salty).
Bad idea to have the finals at Dreamhack. It will just get overshadowed in the same way the WCG America finals were overshadowed at MLG (i think it was MLG) 2 years ago.
On July 10 2013 09:21 Glon wrote: Why not Quantic?
this
It is public that SirScoots did not like some of the Quantic management back before they disbanded/re-merged with whoever. I guess that bled into the other guys at EG
SirScoots was far enough back that this doesn't really make sense- and the people he had problems with are not directly linked to our SC2 division.
It just seems silly - I don't think I'm overestimating that our top 5 players would make up one of the three best teams in theis league.
Next season, I guess. Hopefully they at least do qualifiers or something of the sort.
On July 10 2013 12:35 DLink_Esports wrote: 2. I want to answer questions about our Gaming Router as truthfully as I possibly can. This is the internets, and so I know I will get trolled and our router will at times be mocked; however, this is an exciting product that will make a tangible difference on your (and your family's / gf's / bf's / roomie's) online experiences. We are the first networking company to partner with Qualcomm to use their new StreamBoost chip. It is not just a buzzword -- there are demos of its abilities vs. other leading routers on the web. I don't want to be a slick salesman -- I want to answer questions should you have them.
1) Why is this more than just simple QoS, which I can do on my $40 Linksys router? I've read the product page, but as a developer, it all sounds like buzzwords and that it doesn't offer much, if anything, above normal QoS. 2) Why is it so god damned expensive? If anything will be this product's downfall, it's the price. I don't see many, if any, hardcore gamers dropping $200 on this. 3) Why is it so ugly? It looks about as awful as the new Mac Pro.
Edit: Oh, and you should really see about fixing the images on your Newegg description. The jpeg artifacts look like ass
On July 10 2013 12:35 DLink_Esports wrote: Hi TL -
My name is Dustin -- I'm the Web Marketing Manager at D-Link (if mods would like credentials to legitimize this -- please just ask, I will provide.)
I'm also a master level Zerg player (still pretty scrubby) and an enormous fan of eSports. I wanted to post this for a few reasons:
1. I want to give D-Link eSports a face and some sort of transparency. Yes, we are a large corporation. But there are real, hardcore gamers on our core consumer marketing team. We aren't drones. When I heard the Gaming Router was in the pipeline, I knew it was our chance to take our first step into the world of eSports, a world I have been a part of since 1998. I fought for this budget and I am so thrilled and proud to be able to help sponsor an event I believe in, and a passion that I know we all share.
2. I want to answer questions about our Gaming Router as truthfully as I possibly can. This is the internets, and so I know I will get trolled and our router will at times be mocked; however, this is an exciting product that will make a tangible difference on your (and your family's / gf's / bf's / roomie's) online experiences. We are the first networking company to partner with Qualcomm to use their new StreamBoost chip. It is not just a buzzword -- there are demos of its abilities vs. other leading routers on the web. I don't want to be a slick salesman -- I want to answer questions should you have them.
3. We are looking to sponsor LAN parties and events, big and small -- feel free to contact me here.
4. Finally, I just wanted to say I hope this is the beginning of a long and fruitful relationship between D-Link and eSports. I, for one, am in it for the long-haul and will always fight for budget, visibility, and increased participation.
Feel free to PM or ask questions related to the Gaming Router if you so please. I'll check this thread and my inbox often. I'm going to leave all SC2L matters in the very capable hands of the EG staff. Can't wait to tune in tonight and rage against the efficiency of bio/mine (salty).
<3, D-Link/Dustin
EDIT: Spelling and such.
Welcome to TL brave marketing man. There is a part of me that is amazing that your marketing department let you make an account on TL in the first place, but we live in the future. I am pumped you are sponsoring the event and that your a fan of SC2. Also, props for use of the words " internets", "trolled" and "mocked" in your very office post. We have all of those things here at TL.
On July 10 2013 12:35 DLink_Esports wrote: 2. I want to answer questions about our Gaming Router as truthfully as I possibly can. This is the internets, and so I know I will get trolled and our router will at times be mocked; however, this is an exciting product that will make a tangible difference on your (and your family's / gf's / bf's / roomie's) online experiences. We are the first networking company to partner with Qualcomm to use their new StreamBoost chip. It is not just a buzzword -- there are demos of its abilities vs. other leading routers on the web. I don't want to be a slick salesman -- I want to answer questions should you have them.
1) Why is this more than just simple QoS, which I can do on my $40 Linksys router? I've read the product page, but as a developer, it all sounds like buzzwords and that it doesn't offer much, if anything, above normal QoS. 2) Why is it so god damned expensive? If anything will be this product's downfall, it's the price. I don't see many, if any, hardcore gamers dropping $200 on this. 3) Why is it so ugly? It looks about as awful as the new Mac Pro.
To be fair to them, I have stopped buying $40 routers because they flake out after a year or so(normally). I have moved up a higher prices point for better quality and connection range. But I have to cover a whole house and back yard with my router.
I think this league is getting the hate because of the missed potential. It has a legit title sponsor with a respectable $10k prize pool. It has one of the most popular casting lineups out there. It has a lot of the fan favorite teams. A live finals. It's even run by one of the more organized organizations out there and yet it still has some major issues: broadcast time, skyped broadcast, (old) replays, invite only, small scope (EGMC VIII was 12 teams).
I read in the opening that this is supposed to be the premier western league. Yet, I see something that isn't up to what IPTL was. It's just another EGMC with a different name. If this is the premier western league, we've regressed.
Hopefully, SC2L Season 1 will be like NASL Season 1... something that they will learn from and use to get better in the future.
On July 10 2013 12:48 Alexis_Evo wrote: 1) Why is this more than just simple QoS, which I can do on my $40 Linksys router? I've read the product page, but as a developer, it all sounds like buzzwords and that it doesn't offer much, if anything, above normal QoS. 2) Why is it so god damned expensive? If anything will be this product's downfall, it's the price. I don't see many, if any, hardcore gamers dropping $200 on this. 3) Why is it so ugly? It looks about as awful as the new Mac Pro.
Hello Sir -
Thanks for the questions. I certainly don't want to completely hijack this thread but I'll try to answer these.
1. StreamBoost utterly destroys traditional QoS. QoS is pretty horrible in general (if you have experience with it, I'm sure you'll agree). It just does a mediocre job. StreamBoost is device AND app aware, so it dynamically applies bandwidth in real time as apps (Netflix, iTunes, torrent clients) and devices (console, tablet gaming, pc) do different things. There are head-to-head demos vs our competition's top-level AC offerings (and their QoS) -- it's not close. If you're by yourself -- yeah, it's not going to make THAT big of a difference (although it's still fast as hell, has gig ports, etc.). If you have bandwidth-hog roomies, a downloading gf, active siblings/parents, StreamBoost will give you the best experience you can have. Check out the demos. I have an early model and I love it, as do my roomies.
2. It is our premium router with our best available traffic shaping tech. You can definitely get a cheaper router and get decent performance. This is for gamers (and streamers) who want something superior.
3. We have won design awards multiple years in a row for our cylindrical design, but it seems like a "love it or hate it" thing. I think it looks sleek, but I am of course drinking the Kool Aid.
4. I'll get our NewEgg channel marketer to fix the jpeg, good catch.
Hope that answered your questions -- feel free to PM if you have additional ones.
On July 10 2013 12:49 Plansix wrote:
Welcome to TL brave marketing man. There is a part of me that is amazing that your marketing department let you make an account on TL in the first place, but we live in the future. I am pumped you are sponsoring the event and that your a fan of SC2. Also, props for use of the words " internets", "trolled" and "mocked" in your very office post. We have all of those things here at TL.
Thanks brotha man! I have a personal TL account with around 2.5k posts so I can at least moderately hang in this heathen land of trolls and tomfoolery. Appreciate the enthusiasm.
On July 10 2013 12:48 Alexis_Evo wrote: 1) Why is this more than just simple QoS, which I can do on my $40 Linksys router? I've read the product page, but as a developer, it all sounds like buzzwords and that it doesn't offer much, if anything, above normal QoS. 2) Why is it so god damned expensive? If anything will be this product's downfall, it's the price. I don't see many, if any, hardcore gamers dropping $200 on this. 3) Why is it so ugly? It looks about as awful as the new Mac Pro.
Hello Sir -
Thanks for the questions. I certainly don't want to completely hijack this thread but I'll try to answer these.
1. StreamBoost utterly destroys traditional QoS. QoS is pretty horrible in general (if you have experience with it, I'm sure you'll agree). It just does a mediocre job. StreamBoost is device AND app aware, so it dynamically applies bandwidth in real time as apps (Netflix, iTunes, torrent clients) and devices (console, tablet gaming, pc) do different things. There are head-to-head demos vs our competition's top-level AC offerings (and their QoS) -- it's not close. If you're by yourself -- yeah, it's not going to make THAT big of a difference (although it's still fast as hell, has gig ports, etc.). If you have bandwidth-hog roomies, a downloading gf, active siblings/parents, StreamBoost will give you the best experience you can have. Check out the demos. I have an early model and I love it, as do my roomies.
2. It is our premium router with our best available traffic shaping tech. You can definitely get a cheaper router and get decent performance. This is for gamers (and streamers) who want something superior.
3. We have won design awards multiple years in a row for our cylindrical design, but it seems like a "love it or hate it" thing. I think it looks sleek, but I am of course drinking the Kool Aid.
4. I'll get our NewEgg channel marketer to fix the jpeg, good catch.
Hope that answered your questions -- feel free to PM if you have additional ones.
Welcome to TL brave marketing man. There is a part of me that is amazing that your marketing department let you make an account on TL in the first place, but we live in the future. I am pumped you are sponsoring the event and that your a fan of SC2. Also, props for use of the words " internets", "trolled" and "mocked" in your very office post. We have all of those things here at TL.
Thanks brotha man! I have a personal TL account with around 2.5k posts so I can at least moderately hang in this heathen land of trolls and tomfoolery. Appreciate the enthusiasm.
Could you link to some tests and demos? Would like to see some data, just for curiosity.
On July 10 2013 13:05 DLink_Esports wrote: Hello Sir -
>
On July 10 2013 13:05 DLink_Esports wrote: 1. StreamBoost utterly destroys traditional QoS. QoS is pretty horrible in general (if you have experience with it, I'm sure you'll agree). It just does a mediocre job. StreamBoost is device AND app aware, so it dynamically applies bandwidth in real time as apps (Netflix, iTunes, torrent clients) and devices (console, tablet gaming, pc) do different things. There are head-to-head demos vs our competition's top-level AC offerings (and their QoS) -- it's not close. If you're by yourself -- yeah, it's not going to make THAT big of a difference (although it's still fast as hell, has gig ports, etc.). If you have bandwidth-hog roomies, a downloading gf, active siblings/parents, StreamBoost will give you the best experience you can have. Check out the demos. I have an early model and I love it, as do my roomies.
This doesn't really explain how it works, but I guess that's a bit too off topic for this thread :p. I will have to wait for more reviews to come out comparing it to QoS. Thanks for the reply!
On July 10 2013 13:18 Esoterikk wrote: Something really needs to be done about this overlay, it is one of the worst I have ever seen, there is less game than overlay.
I don't think it's *that* bad. Just way too bright and blue. It'd be wonderful if they were playing on GH or something, though.
On July 10 2013 13:18 Esoterikk wrote: Something really needs to be done about this overlay, it is one of the worst I have ever seen, there is less game than overlay.
I don't think it's *that* bad. Just way too bright and blue. It'd be wonderful if they were playing on GH or something, though.
On July 10 2013 13:09 sparklyresidue wrote: That overlay is ... gigantic
On July 10 2013 13:10 negativedge wrote: it would be nice if the overlay didn't cover the entire screen
Seriously this. Producers really need to look at how other leagues have used the new interface tools to minimise dead space. This is the worst I've seen in recent memory. Still excited though, its only early days.
We'll definitely change it soon. We were put in a weird place where we had developed a private GameHeart-esque mod which was going to be very simplistic in style, but when the teams requested we use replays (versus live games), we had to go back to the drawing boards in order to fit our sponsor and broadcast needs. We did look at some of the common observer UI options out there, but really didn't like them very much.
Expect a new one within 2-3 weeks.
Layout is because it's cast from replays instead of live
On July 10 2013 13:18 Esoterikk wrote: Something really needs to be done about this overlay, it is one of the worst I have ever seen, there is less game than overlay.
Agreed, there's just too much of it. The SC2L.GG and SC2L banner at the bottom right just don't need to be there. I'm all for supporting sponsors but this overlay is actually more distracting than helpful.
On July 10 2013 13:29 heartlxp wrote: they can't use GH because it's cast from replays
Ah I wasn't aware of this, then it's fine hopefully it improves.
*Edit* wait why did teams request this be done from replays?
Because some teams live in different time zones, and players don't want to stay up until 5am (European teams) to play games live. It's much more convenient for an online team league with participants from different countries.
Teamliquid vs ROOT was played in like, May, right? Since HerO said he just got back from NY, and Kane talked about how he just got back from NY from Shoutcraft America which ended around May 21 or something like that? I guess we will have to watch un-nerfed hellbats getting dropped for quite some time until the games catches up to the current patch (and meta)... League looks really great and exciting otherwise. Will follow.
Fuck yes. But I do have to agree with the people worried about the prospects of many buys for the router...it's fairly expensive, and routers aren't like pizzas (Papa John's I'm lookin' at you); not everyone needs a router every day. Everyone needs food everyday. Hard to sell them.
But, nonetheless, I am tuning in now and it's already very impressive. Loving it, thank you ControlGod.
I saw a post about the overlay so I decided to check it out really fast and... uhm.. >.>...
Incontrol and Day9 making it entertaining as always but this turned out a lot different than my initial expectations. Hope it works out for them either way though~
On July 10 2013 13:43 Nuclease wrote: Fuck yes. But I do have to agree with the people worried about the prospects of many buys for the router...it's fairly expensive, and routers aren't like pizzas (Papa John's I'm lookin' at you); not everyone needs a router every day. Everyone needs food everyday. Hard to sell them.
But, nonetheless, I am tuning in now and it's already very impressive. Loving it, thank you ControlGod.
Hi Nuclease -
I agree a router is in another bracket entirely than a pizza. I think what we at D-Link are hoping for is that people will see that we are passionate about eSports; they will check out our Gaming Router; they will be convinced of its power and ability to shape traffic; and, for those who haven't purchased a new router since 2006, they will consider upgrading. The more ROI I can show at the end of this campaign, the more funding I can secure for eSports. That's just a stone cold truth. I am trying to convince dinosaurs that this eSports thing isn't just a fad they read about in Forbes.
In short, EG has been great to work with and I want to continue to do so in the future. So those of you who can, take a look at our Gaming Router and see if it seems right for you. I think it will.
On July 10 2013 13:43 Nuclease wrote: Fuck yes. But I do have to agree with the people worried about the prospects of many buys for the router...it's fairly expensive, and routers aren't like pizzas (Papa John's I'm lookin' at you); not everyone needs a router every day. Everyone needs food everyday. Hard to sell them.
But, nonetheless, I am tuning in now and it's already very impressive. Loving it, thank you ControlGod.
Hi Nuclease -
I agree a router is in another bracket entirely than a pizza. I think what we at D-Link are hoping for is that people will see that we are passionate about eSports; they will check out our Gaming Router; they will be convinced of its power and ability to shape traffic; and, for those who haven't purchased a new router since 2006, they will consider upgrading. The more ROI I can show at the end of this campaign, the more funding I can secure for eSports. That's just a stone cold truth. I am trying to convince dinosaurs that this eSports thing isn't just a fad they read about in Forbes.
In short, EG has been great to work with and I want to continue to do so in the future. So those of you who can, take a look at our Gaming Router and see if it seems right for you. I think it will.
It's too bad the router being promoted for this isn't actually available so there isn't any user reviews yet. I can't imagine pre-ordering something like a router, especially at this premium price. I think people looking for a router like this would definitely want to see tech site reviews and user reviews. Anyway good luck with the tournament and marketing.
On July 10 2013 13:43 Nuclease wrote: Fuck yes. But I do have to agree with the people worried about the prospects of many buys for the router...it's fairly expensive, and routers aren't like pizzas (Papa John's I'm lookin' at you); not everyone needs a router every day. Everyone needs food everyday. Hard to sell them.
But, nonetheless, I am tuning in now and it's already very impressive. Loving it, thank you ControlGod.
Hi Nuclease -
I agree a router is in another bracket entirely than a pizza. I think what we at D-Link are hoping for is that people will see that we are passionate about eSports; they will check out our Gaming Router; they will be convinced of its power and ability to shape traffic; and, for those who haven't purchased a new router since 2006, they will consider upgrading. The more ROI I can show at the end of this campaign, the more funding I can secure for eSports. That's just a stone cold truth. I am trying to convince dinosaurs that this eSports thing isn't just a fad they read about in Forbes.
In short, EG has been great to work with and I want to continue to do so in the future. So those of you who can, take a look at our Gaming Router and see if it seems right for you. I think it will.
It's too bad the router being promoted for this isn't actually available so there isn't any user reviews yet. I can't imagine pre-ordering something like a router, especially at this premium price. I think people looking for a router like this would definitely want to see tech site reviews and user reviews. Anyway good luck with the tournament and marketing.
Totally get it that some will want to wait to see reviews. The Gaming Router was a CNET finalist for Best of CES this year, and it has received very high praise from PC World already -- however, that's not the same as a review, I realize. Hopefully people will read and see enough to believe in the product. I have it. It is awesome and I can't tell you the immense pleasure I get out of seeing bandwidth adjust in real time. Thanks for the good wishes. Hope you enjoy these games. Go Ret.
Few questions... One being why the clunky overlay? My second concerning how old these replays are (seeing as Daybreak is in the map pool) and why maps such as Daybreak are being used at all when they've been phased out.
So instead of taking the best NA team ( Quantic - HyuN, Center, Apoc, Venus, HwangSin ) they merge complexity and dignitas? wtf? They want it to be the "western worlds premier team league? yet exclude, arguably, the best western team? They also have no qualifiers.. it's just EGMC with a new sponsor they want us to buy from.
Whilst more team leagues is great for the scene, I have two concerns:
a) One of the things that most legitimizes the quality of the player pool, is qualifiers. I understand you not wanting to invite Millenium due to their previous lack of commitment, but what if they really wanted to be dedicated to the event this time, just like they're doing in ATC? They are one of the best foreign teams at the moment, so you can't really afford to not have them in if you want to be the premier team league in the West. It would have been great if you had a couple of qualifier spots.
Secondly, I don't understand why coL and Dignitas are being allowed to participate together. Both have enough players to participate, and both have a ton of sponsors to back them up. It's not like they're playing Proleague or GSTL and need all the help they can get.
The fact that we're approaching near 24 hour SC2 coverage is awesome, but give a guy a chance! I want to watch everything :'(
I like the graphical style of the UI and background thus far. A couple of minor technical hiccups, but I like the way this is going thus far. As time goes on, this could be a very good tournament. <3
On July 10 2013 13:43 Nuclease wrote: Fuck yes. But I do have to agree with the people worried about the prospects of many buys for the router...it's fairly expensive, and routers aren't like pizzas (Papa John's I'm lookin' at you); not everyone needs a router every day. Everyone needs food everyday. Hard to sell them.
But, nonetheless, I am tuning in now and it's already very impressive. Loving it, thank you ControlGod.
Hi Nuclease -
I agree a router is in another bracket entirely than a pizza. I think what we at D-Link are hoping for is that people will see that we are passionate about eSports; they will check out our Gaming Router; they will be convinced of its power and ability to shape traffic; and, for those who haven't purchased a new router since 2006, they will consider upgrading. The more ROI I can show at the end of this campaign, the more funding I can secure for eSports. That's just a stone cold truth. I am trying to convince dinosaurs that this eSports thing isn't just a fad they read about in Forbes.
In short, EG has been great to work with and I want to continue to do so in the future. So those of you who can, take a look at our Gaming Router and see if it seems right for you. I think it will.
Thanks for replying.
I understand your convictions, and I really want to support you. I sincerely do. It's just the fact that the support of this tournament relies on a $200 purchase, of a non-released router. Very hard to see it doing well. Maybe the convincing of the dinosaurs shouldn't have been predicated upon such a pricey and unlikely purchase? Just an idea for the future.
Agreed Nuclease, I would love to support Dlink (and likely will on my own terms) but I just can't afford 200$ for a router, here is hoping that other people can so we can prove that esports is worth it.
I am quite surprised Axiom is in this with only 4 players on their roster. They are far behind schedule in ATC already. It does not make much sense inviting them this way. A partnership (like Col-Dignitas) seems more reasonable.
That is one very expensive home router. If it has the intelligence they claim it has, it will be useful for people who have (1) multiple users on their home network, (2) don't know networking, and (3) have money to burn. It kind of reminds me of that one company that sold a network card that claimed it would boost your network performance way back when. I feel sorry for the people who bought into that. I say, "kind of", because this router might actually do what it claims to do. Newegg ratings will tell the truth eventually.
As for the team league itself, I'm excited to see how it goes.
EDIT: Hmm, so I have to have a Day9 subscription to watch the VODs? Bummer.
no quantic is sad and dignitas/col only have col playes in lineup confuses me ^^
edit: how long for the vods to be uploaded ? 6am is to early xD
also axiom with so less players would perhaps like in gstl better as axiom acer so then we could have also quantic but hey, ltes hope they not mess up that much playdays ^^
On July 10 2013 16:17 ZeroPageX wrote: Where is the twitch channel?
Online team leagues are vastly less interesting than LAN team leagues such as Proleague and GSTL. I love that there is finally a league that focuses solely on the top tier of Western teams... but, it just won't be the same. As such, it will generate less interest/viewership. Just a thought/opinion/critique. Regardless, I do want to see this league succeed. It has the potential to do a lot of good things for the community.
It was a nice casting but I think I prefer just watching you play iNcontroL
- it was really weird listening to sean talk but not ever seeing him (I guess he didn't want to throw on a dress shirt? If his green screen gets working nice you could just composite yourselves side by side.)
- I felt like there was no actual action to the tournament. It really needs either more casters with discussion or maybe interviews with the players.
- It was very sad to watch the promotion bar never go up by even $1
Couple of things, - What was the team selection method? because some choices seem very strange - There are currently already player stats (winrate, ace winrate) on the site, where are these stats from? - What are the exact rules? Because yugioh and mana are both fielded twice in the first 5 maps. Can you field them 3 times? Can you field multiple players twice? etc
I have a D-Link Wlan stick, works great since practicly ever (5-6years?). I also bought a high end netgear router 2 years ago for 130$, one would think the prices would go down. The only difference for higher priced netgears routers for private usage were more Lan connections.
Also, this is tech, people following Esports usually are rather smart, who buys something that is not on the market yet and has no reviews? Maybe sails will come in once it is released, but it reads like the deal is only for pre-orders. Really? Pre-Order something that sensitiv for 200$ when there are proved and tested alternatives? Hate to bust anyones bubble, but that seems sooo unlikely.
Also, if 40 people donate 200$ to Sc2L we can add 10.000 to the pricepool, instead of 1.000 people making a risky buy for 196$. Of course, that is not how it works, and we wanna show our love to the sponsors, but that just is a crazy deal(not the good kind of crazy). Esport is not a fad you read about in forbes, we are not that desperate... i think.
Great for esports and the teams to have another team league. looking forward to it, even if it's casted from replays.
Major - once again you behave like a dick, you could have said the same things and not come out like a total and uninformed jerk! GJ.. fits the profile
Scarllet . Ok, we get it allready! You prefer your own league, sponsored by ACER! 0_0
I never understood complaints about this. People in other timezones want SC2, too. Why is it so hard for people to accept that? There is nothing anyone can do until TLO invents the time machine in a horrible lab accident.
About offline vs offline:
On July 10 2013 18:59 esReveR wrote: Online team leagues are vastly less interesting than LAN team leagues such as Proleague and GSTL. I love that there is finally a league that focuses solely on the top tier of Western teams... but, it just won't be the same. As such, it will generate less interest/viewership. Just a thought/opinion/critique. Regardless, I do want to see this league succeed. It has the potential to do a lot of good things for the community.
Well, this is simply impossible for the West. Online league into offline playoffs is the best we can get and a very good compromise in my opinion.
About live vs replays:
For me, it's like that:
Live (with or without stream delay): Great!
Casted from replay within an hour: Good, but already a little bit less excitement around the game
Within one or two days: Meh, little excitement around the game
Within a week: Only watch favorite team or must-see games, no excitement around the game
More than that: Won't watch and probably won't watch the rest of the league if it occurs regularly.
The feeling is amplified when watching from VODs. I really hope the VOD system is good and gets updated quickly.
I am not sure how strong the efforts really are to make live games. The (symbolic) opening match is weeks old already and the broadcasting schedule is really rigid. And given that the league has started play already weeks ago, I don't see many teams trying or being able to accomodate the schedule.
Be that as a may and despite my general dislike towards replay casting: Content producers, embrace the situation! You have more possibilities around replays than with live casting. Prepare analysis for some replays between the games, extract stats from the replay that can be shown during the games, etc. etc.
About the crowdsourced prize pool:
Personally, it feels a little bit dishonest to me to have a star lineup of casters and at the same time let the community pay to complete the prize pool. It doesn't feel like something that the community wants to do (like for that DotA 2 tournament) but as a me-too-marketing gimmick.
About no open qualifiers:
Yes, that is sad. But I really have to blame the real Western league organizers for not creating an prestigious, long-running team league. The conflicts of one sponsor or one team running such things are obvious.
Closing comments:
Nevertheless, I am happy for every serious effort to establish a team league in the West. The EGMCS was my favorite team league in the past before they moved to the "virtual studio".
I hope there is some friendly rivalry between this and the ATC that pushes both leagues to do better. At the same time, I don't think that the leagues will cannibalize each other, as the timeslots are very different and the formats are different. And teams will gain more prestige by competing in one or both of these leagues. More prestigious and healthy teams are beneficial for the whole scene.
im all for product placement in Esports but EG need to make me a bigger sales pitch if they want me to chip in for a new router, why exactly do i want a Dlink router when im happy with what i have? if they could do a bit of a product demo on a stream or something i think i would be a lot more tempted.
Western teams (yay) iNcontroL casting (superb) Day[9], DjWheat and Artosis joining him (effing awesome)
-> Can this get better, I need to check this out -> Click site -> Check hours
(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻ Fuck this shit. 06AM is really unwatchable for me. Why did I get so fucking hyped? Let me reread the damn thread:
Why the team format? Well, while we are fortunate enough to have plenty of great 1v1 tourneys and leagues available to us in the West, the landscape for team-based competition isn't nearly as strong. We feel it is important to support and feature the West's best team organizations, and in doing so help improve the quality of competition in the West, and the Western scene at large. This is why we are pushing as hard as we can to be the premier team league in the West.
Yeah, fuck the West. This is for NA. Not for Europe, European viewers can go and fuck themselves with these hours.
Anyway, I don't see too many negative comments yet. So I guess I must be missing something here. Because it really is unwatchable for Europeans and isn't it pretty late for East Coast of America?
Why the team format? Well, while we are fortunate enough to have plenty of great 1v1 tourneys and leagues available to us in the West, the landscape for team-based competition isn't nearly as strong. We feel it is important to support and feature the West's best team organizations, and in doing so help improve the quality of competition in the West, and the Western scene at large. This is why we are pushing as hard as we can to be the premier team league in the West.
Yeah, fuck the West. This is for NA. Not for Europe, European viewers can go and fuck themselves with these hours.
Anyway, I don't see too many negative comments yet. So I guess I must be missing something here. Because it really is unwatchable for Europeans and isn't it pretty late for East Coast of America?
It is super late, but the WCS restrictions limit when it can be on and they also have to consider Arotsis as well. I am exicited for the leauge and will watch the VODs when I can. Hopefully they end up on youtube, since that is the best for mobile or getting it on my tablet.
On July 10 2013 21:59 ThePlagueJG wrote: Axiom only 4 guys?? Wish they could partner up with Alliance for [A]xiom :D(Dreams...)
Oh, so that's why they have they have players playing more than once. *sigh* So silly when they don't have enough players to be competing in a team league. This wouldn't have been a problem if they stuck with the old WGTour format like they did with the Masters Cup.
Don't think it's a good idea to advertise your new league while at the same time doing the stream for it the same day. I would have watched but because I didn't go on TL when I got home I had no idea.
Next time maybe give us at least a few days notice?
On July 10 2013 21:52 Koshi wrote: This is how reading this post went for me
Western teams (yay) iNcontroL casting (superb) Day[9], DjWheat and Artosis joining him (effing awesome)
-> Can this get better, I need to check this out -> Click site -> Check hours
(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻ Fuck this shit. 06AM is really unwatchable for me. Why did I get so fucking hyped? Let me reread the damn thread:
Why the team format? Well, while we are fortunate enough to have plenty of great 1v1 tourneys and leagues available to us in the West, the landscape for team-based competition isn't nearly as strong. We feel it is important to support and feature the West's best team organizations, and in doing so help improve the quality of competition in the West, and the Western scene at large. This is why we are pushing as hard as we can to be the premier team league in the West.
Yeah, fuck the West. This is for NA. Not for Europe, European viewers can go and fuck themselves with these hours.
Anyway, I don't see too many negative comments yet. So I guess I must be missing something here. Because it really is unwatchable for Europeans and isn't it pretty late for East Coast of America?
It is super late, but the WCS restrictions limit when it can be on and they also have to consider Arotsis as well. I am exicited for the leauge and will watch the VODs when I can. Hopefully they end up on youtube, since that is the best for mobile or getting it on my tablet.
I am not a big fan of watching VODs, but I think this league might be more interesting than Code A on some days. VODs it will be...
I personally hate tournaments with replays unless they're very recent, a week at most. So I'll probably the first round or so (there is only so much starcraft I can watch).
$200 is a bit steep for a router, hopefully quite a few of them sell so we can show D-Link that esports is a good investment
On July 10 2013 22:27 Butterednuts wrote: Don't think it's a good idea to advertise your new league while at the same time doing the stream for it the same day. I would have watched but because I didn't go on TL when I got home I had no idea.
Next time maybe give us at least a few days notice?
On July 10 2013 22:27 Butterednuts wrote: Don't think it's a good idea to advertise your new league while at the same time doing the stream for it the same day. I would have watched but because I didn't go on TL when I got home I had no idea.
Next time maybe give us at least a few days notice?
Really taking a lot from its big sister D2L, I must say. The names are a bit bland and in the case of the SC2L not really telling of the team aspect, but I guess it doesn't really matter that much. Instead of Ayesee, it will now be Geoff sitting at the big studio mic in SF (Hopefully, there will not be the same terrible video frame drops. xD).
Both non-Swedish DreamHack events (Valencia, Bucharest) are now hosting the finals of an EG tournament. I guess DHBoss and iNcontroL weren't just eating icecream cones and fending off aggressive seagulls in Stockholm.
On July 10 2013 21:52 Koshi wrote: This is how reading this post went for me
Western teams (yay) iNcontroL casting (superb) Day[9], DjWheat and Artosis joining him (effing awesome)
-> Can this get better, I need to check this out -> Click site -> Check hours
(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻ Fuck this shit. 06AM is really unwatchable for me. Why did I get so fucking hyped? Let me reread the damn thread:
Why the team format? Well, while we are fortunate enough to have plenty of great 1v1 tourneys and leagues available to us in the West, the landscape for team-based competition isn't nearly as strong. We feel it is important to support and feature the West's best team organizations, and in doing so help improve the quality of competition in the West, and the Western scene at large. This is why we are pushing as hard as we can to be the premier team league in the West.
Yeah, fuck the West. This is for NA. Not for Europe, European viewers can go and fuck themselves with these hours.
Anyway, I don't see too many negative comments yet. So I guess I must be missing something here. Because it really is unwatchable for Europeans and isn't it pretty late for East Coast of America?
It is super late, but the WCS restrictions limit when it can be on and they also have to consider Arotsis as well. I am exicited for the leauge and will watch the VODs when I can. Hopefully they end up on youtube, since that is the best for mobile or getting it on my tablet.
I am not a big fan of watching VODs, but I think this league might be more interesting than Code A on some days. VODs it will be...
I am not a huge fan of VOD's either, but I have a busy life and can't watch everything live. Even if it was on at 9 pm my time, I still wouldn't be able to catch it most of the time. It is nice to watch solid league with a few games each night on my tablet while while hanging out with my girlfriend.
I'm really happy that we'll have more leagues based in the West. We've been in need of some really good top end team leagues since NASTL and IPTL ended. Can't wait to see how the rest of the season goes!
the thing that is worrying is that incontrols op is missing infos which i had to get reading the comments here. i just hope u had to just paste it here and are not really involved and just the poster boy for this cuz u should know better
besides that the name isnt half bad, it reminds me of the best wc3 team league which was actually pretty exciting for na / eu scene. but it was much closer to what atc is than "this" ~_~ not liking it, and not having it live is just like watching youtube videos, if it hasnt kpop in it its not exciting to me
You dont need to have "gaming router" to use the internet to game. Weve been using regular routers for years, what has suddenly changed? What is so magical about frequencies that you guys do for $200 that a $50 cant?
Sad way to try to market this really. I feel like they are trying to go down the PapaJohns route. Except, no saving and you dont have a greasy pizza to satisfy your $15 investment. I feel the person who thought of this idea think were all idiots(or is an idiot himself) and will throw money at anything with the word "gaming" in it.
This just in I have a "gaming" pen for sale. Trust me this will make your gaming experience awesome when you are writing down your builds from the the pro players.
1. What are the rules about using players twice? As it is a Bo7 and some of the teams don't have 7 players ( Axiom for example)
2. Why do the EG players already have winrates? Esp. winrates with 84 matches? Which matches are these? Also winrates not from the SC2L dont seem very important for the league itself.
On July 10 2013 21:28 turdburgler wrote: im all for product placement in Esports but EG need to make me a bigger sales pitch if they want me to chip in for a new router, why exactly do i want a Dlink router when im happy with what i have? if they could do a bit of a product demo on a stream or something i think i would be a lot more tempted.
This is coming, I promise. We're sending additional units to the EG Lair for testimonials, demos, and more. A great idea and an absolutely necessary part of this.
On July 11 2013 01:27 Eggi wrote: You dont need to have "gaming router" to use the internet to game. Weve been using regular routers for years, what has suddenly changed? What is so magical about frequencies that you guys do for $200 that a $50 cant?
Sad way to try to market this really. I feel like they are trying to go down the PapaJohns route. Except, no saving and you dont have a greasy pizza to satisfy your $15 investment. I feel the person who thought of this idea think were all idiots(or is an idiot himself) and will throw money at anything with the word "gaming" in it.
This just in I have a "gaming" pen for sale. Trust me this will make your gaming experience awesome when you are writing down your builds from the the pro players.
Hey Eggi -
I understand your skepticism. I think people have either a) been burned by QoS promises before, b) are happy with their current router, or c) don't understand the benefits of the new chip we are using. You're right -- you don't have to have a Gaming Router to game. You could use a $50 router and get decent performance.
The Gaming Router is the only router on the market that uses Qualcomm's new StreamBoost chip. It's specifically made for households where there are many simultaneous users. At my place, I have a roomie downloading torrent files, I'm playing ladder, my gf is streaming Netflix, someone's making a Facetime call, etc. Simply put -- the Gaming Router will obliterate all other routers (including high-end AC routers) in head-to-head multi-user scenarios. It's not even close. Those are just words until we get additional demos up -- I just wanted to let you know where we're coming from. This isn't just legacy router with some lipstick on it. StreamBoost is the first QoS to actually make a tangible difference to your experience. If you live by yourself, you probably don't need it.
Dlink routers are very popular in Romania.Actually they might be the most popular router where I live.Glad to see that they support esports.If they would extend this offer to all dlink products I am sure they will sell a lot more.
That's an expensive router... I have a $20 DLink router but there's no way I'm buying a $200 router to only contribute $10 to the prize pool... how about a tip jar ;D
On July 10 2013 21:28 turdburgler wrote: im all for product placement in Esports but EG need to make me a bigger sales pitch if they want me to chip in for a new router, why exactly do i want a Dlink router when im happy with what i have? if they could do a bit of a product demo on a stream or something i think i would be a lot more tempted.
This is coming, I promise. We're sending additional units to the EG Lair for testimonials, demos, and more. A great idea and an absolutely necessary part of this.
On July 11 2013 01:27 Eggi wrote: You dont need to have "gaming router" to use the internet to game. Weve been using regular routers for years, what has suddenly changed? What is so magical about frequencies that you guys do for $200 that a $50 cant?
Sad way to try to market this really. I feel like they are trying to go down the PapaJohns route. Except, no saving and you dont have a greasy pizza to satisfy your $15 investment. I feel the person who thought of this idea think were all idiots(or is an idiot himself) and will throw money at anything with the word "gaming" in it.
This just in I have a "gaming" pen for sale. Trust me this will make your gaming experience awesome when you are writing down your builds from the the pro players.
Hey Eggi -
I understand your skepticism. I think people have either a) been burned by QoS promises before, b) are happy with their current router, or c) don't understand the benefits of the new chip we are using. You're right -- you don't have to have a Gaming Router to game. You could use a $50 router and get decent performance.
The Gaming Router is the only router on the market that uses Qualcomm's new StreamBoost chip. It's specifically made for households where there are many simultaneous users. At my place, I have a roomie downloading torrent files, I'm playing ladder, my gf is streaming Netflix, someone's making a Facetime call, etc. Simply put -- the Gaming Router will obliterate all other routers (including high-end AC routers) in head-to-head multi-user scenarios. It's not even close. Those are just words until we get additional demos up -- I just wanted to let you know where we're coming from. This isn't just legacy router with some lipstick on it. StreamBoost is the first QoS to actually make a tangible difference to your experience. If you live by yourself, you probably don't need it.
D-Link Marketing Man,
I would recommend that you folks surface this information more in your marketing, specifically the part about about multi-users. I think a lot of gamers don't have the issue of several people all connecting to their wireless system and bogging down their router, unless they live with 4-5 people who are also super internet users. It will go a long way to getting rid of the skeptics that see this thing as another standard item with the word "Gaming" on the box with some LED lights.
On July 10 2013 10:28 iNcontroL wrote: Please just ignore major for now >_< this is a thread discussing a team league.. you have to be on one to have proper information regarding it.
Woah, Geoff, a little manner maybe? I assume you don't like it when people make comments like that towards Greg.
On July 10 2013 13:54 DLink_Esports wrote: The more ROI I can show at the end of this campaign, the more funding I can secure for eSports. That's just a stone cold truth. I am trying to convince dinosaurs that this eSports thing isn't just a fad they read about in Forbes.
It's a shame then that you guys didn't go a little more broad with this thing, since the appeal of a $200 router is extremely limited, even if it is as great as you say. I assume you won't be able to attribute a general uptick in sales across all D-Link products to your company's involvement in this venture, since there are no codes being used. A 5%-off-everything coupon might have provided a lot more tangible info to take to the bosses.
On July 10 2013 10:28 iNcontroL wrote: Please just ignore major for now >_< this is a thread discussing a team league.. you have to be on one to have proper information regarding it.
Woah, Geoff, a little manner maybe? I assume you don't like it when people make comments like that towards Greg.
No, read the thread a bit more. Major was spouting totally incorrect information about how old the replays were and generally being wrong. It was pretty stupid.
How were the teams chosen? I'm particularly thinking about the absence of Millenium. I'm obviously biased but their current ranking in the ATC speaks for itself.
On July 11 2013 03:11 schimmetje wrote: @DLink_Esports I do not envy your job good sir. Rest assured they're not always like th.. well.. It's a cool initiative anyway, hope it works out!
Thanks friend. I am an active TL user on my personal account so I knew what to expect -- the good and the bad, the noble and the troll. I actually understand the skepticism and hostility. The only thing I can do is to try to win people over because I want to keep doing this. <3
On July 11 2013 02:31 Plansix wrote: No, read the thread a bit more. Major was spouting totally incorrect information about how old the replays were and generally being wrong. It was pretty stupid.
Ever heard of hyperbole? His information was correct, he just exaggerated. And even if he wasn't right, it's no reason for a low-blow like "LOL, you recently got kicked off a team, you shouldn't be allowed to discuss team-leagues."
People should stop referring to this as the 'premier western team league" and saying things like "finally an NA based team league" when they excluded arguably the best NA ( Quantic ) and EU ( Millenium) teams. I really wish someone would comment about the chosen teams.
How do you decide to combine Complexity and Dignitas so they can field a roster and yet exclude much better teams? Then go on to dub yourselves as the 'premier western team league'. It's quite a joke IMO
On July 11 2013 02:31 Plansix wrote: No, read the thread a bit more. Major was spouting totally incorrect information about how old the replays were and generally being wrong. It was pretty stupid.
Ever heard of hyperbole? His information was correct, he just exaggerated. And even if he wasn't right, it's no reason for a low-blow like "LOL, you recently got kicked off a team, you shouldn't be allowed to discuss team-leagues."
No, I think he was just being uninformed and trolling up the thread with incorrect information. Or maybe he was just trolling. And Major is a big boy and can handle himself. If he is going to come in and troll up the announcement thread with a bunch of non-sense, he should expect a sharp response.
On July 11 2013 04:06 shinyA wrote: People should stop referring to this as the 'premier western team league" and saying things like "finally an NA based team league" when they excluded arguably the best NA ( Quantic ) and EU ( Millenium) teams. I really wish someone would comment about the chosen teams.
How do you decide to combine Complexity and Dignitas so they can field a roster and yet exclude much better teams? Then go on to dub yourselves as the 'premier western team league'. It's quite a joke IMO
So far in this forum, the people definitely haven't been calling SC2L the "premier western team league." The organizers have been catching a lot of flak for just about everything.
Also, incontrol didn't say it already is the "premier western team league." He said that is what they want it to become.
Also, I agree that Quantic, Millenium, and a few other teams should have been included and could be very competitive in the league. However, I don't think quantic is just way better than everyone else and it doesn't seem right to go around calling them "arguably the best NA team" when the quantic liquipedia page has 2 NA guys listed on the main roster, and I doubt they would see much playing time behind the 6 koreans.
On July 10 2013 10:28 iNcontroL wrote: Please just ignore major for now >_< this is a thread discussing a team league.. you have to be on one to have proper information regarding it.
Woah, Geoff, a little manner maybe? I assume you don't like it when people make comments like that towards Greg.
No, read the thread a bit more. Major was spouting totally incorrect information about how old the replays were and generally being wrong. It was pretty stupid.
Well, he wasn't entirely incorrect. They started a league six months ago, made the teams play like half of their matches and then said "Sorry, it was all for nothing, we're canceling the league without showing any of the matches you played for us."
Only thing he didn't know that they started the league anew instead of using the old games.
What i think would be a pretty cool idea is that at the end of every season make it so the bottom 2 teams in the standings are eliminated from the tournament and before every other season u host a qualifier to see who the next 2 teams would be seeing how ur missing some huge teams like Quantic and Mill and lots of others and even some up and coming teams.
I think that would be a pretty neat idea and something no other leagues are doing although it could also be a bad idea
On July 11 2013 08:39 RDaneelOlivaw wrote: They should really do a couple rebroadcasts..one for EU and one for East Coast....please, I'd really love to be able to watch lol
On July 11 2013 08:33 Kvz wrote: Just clarification:
If I spend 200 dollars on the dlink 'gaming' router then 10 dollars of my purchase will go to the prize pool for the league?
Seems like quite a small portion of my purchase
What are you talking about? That's 5% of the price of the router. How much do you think it costs to make one of those? I would say a conservative estimate is $75. Possibly as high as a $125. This could be anywhere from 8 to 15 percent of there total profits.
It's unfortunate that they are using an old school overlay. It's absolutely claustrophobic trying to watch the games. So much wasted screen space. Feels like a big D-Link ad too. Far too many negatives for this little experiment to pan out well.
I'm pretty excited with the concepts. I feel like a lot of people are so quick to point out things that need fixing rather than being excited that EG is always actively looking for more sponsors to enter the esports space in general, not just for themselves. Another point of coolness is the fact that they're using the virtual jersey concept, highlighting the title sponsors of the individual teams in addition to the event sponsors. I'll try to tune in as often as my schedule permits
On July 11 2013 08:33 Kvz wrote: Just clarification:
If I spend 200 dollars on the dlink 'gaming' router then 10 dollars of my purchase will go to the prize pool for the league?
Seems like quite a small portion of my purchase
What are you talking about? That's 5% of the price of the router. How much do you think it costs to make one of those? I would say a conservative estimate is $75. Possibly as high as a $125. This could be anywhere from 8 to 15 percent of there total profits.
As someone who imports electronics from shenzen, I can guarantee that the manufacturing cost for this is about 20$ if they have bought out a entire factory, and about 30$ if its sourced manufacturing.
I import only a few containers of sourced tablets and they cost me ~10$ each and they go for 149$ to consumer.
Dont kid yourself with such high estimates, the margins o electronics are about 1000% of production cost. Of course there are many other costs on they way, the biggest being taxes, but thats a general estimate.
Wow, great project. I'm so thankful to people like incontrol who put in so much time to the scene. And all while mantaining a top 50 gm spot... impressive.
On topic: I'd just like to show a couple of thumbs up for this project, just to compensate for some of the negative feedback. It's very obvious that there's been lots of hurdles to get this league started, and it's pretty obvious that iNcontroL and EG are doing the professional thing by taking responsibility for those hurdles (even though I'm speculating that lots of those hurdles were due to external factors out of their hands). I can easily imagine the amount of frustration they must've experienced with this project. First starting a league in January, not getting it done properly and having to scrap it. Then doing it again in June and running into additional problems so that this, too, gets delayed. Then, when it finally goes public, not only do they have to answer for the current problems, but they even receive flak for the first attempt, which wasn't good enough to be shown. It seems that you're not allowed to even try anything if it's now perfect form the get-go. It seems that a failed attempt at something awesome is far worse than just passive indifference. We wouldn't even have a community if people were too afraid to try something because the outrage if they fail is simply not worth it.
Personally, I'm really excited to see what SC2L can become. I remember the shitstorm with the first season of GSL, when the resolution was low and the connection bad. Or the early MLG's with their connection problems (and I think computer problems?). But today, these events represent the standard to which everyone else are compared, because they aimed high and kept going through the shitstorm until they had become as awesome as they first set out to be, on their nth attempt. By having really awesome casters, a huge sponsor and international teams, I see that SC2L aims high and I think we should support them in becoming what they envision rather than complaining about all the problems they've already had.
On July 11 2013 08:33 Kvz wrote: Just clarification:
If I spend 200 dollars on the dlink 'gaming' router then 10 dollars of my purchase will go to the prize pool for the league?
Seems like quite a small portion of my purchase
What are you talking about? That's 5% of the price of the router. How much do you think it costs to make one of those? I would say a conservative estimate is $75. Possibly as high as a $125. This could be anywhere from 8 to 15 percent of there total profits.
As someone who imports electronics from shenzen, I can guarantee that the manufacturing cost for this is about 20$ if they have bought out a entire factory, and about 30$ if its sourced manufacturing.
I import only a few containers of sourced tablets and they cost me ~10$ each and they go for 149$ to consumer.
Dont kid yourself with such high estimates, the margins o electronics are about 1000% of production cost. Of course there are many other costs on they way, the biggest being taxes, but thats a general estimate.
"Asymco analyst Horace Dediu used the "Nightline" report to estimate that Apple pays labor costs of between $12.50 and $30 for every iPhone it makes, which represents just 2-5% of the iPhone's sale price."
"So if the materials cost roughly $188, and Dediu has calculated that an additional $93 is spent on manufacturing its smartphone, (a cost that includes the labor costs, transportation, storage and warranty expenses) we reach a total of about $281 to manufacture an iPhone that retails at $649. This represents a profit for Apple of $368 per iPhone."
So even with a company like Apple, known for having some of the largest gross margins in the industry we don't see anywhere near 1000% markup. It's slightly under 200% for the iPhone according to these estimates. This also makes your comment about taxes being the largest factor clearly inaccurate.
for all the people complaining about them having 1000% mark up on their products you are all idiots who have not the slightest clue on the cost of running a large business.
the cost of staff, advertising, distribution, research and development, tax. insurance, the list goes on and on. then of course they are ment to start this huge operation all for your leisure how dare they make a profit, grow up you idiots and shut your mouths your lack of knowledge is embarrassing.
WTF is going on? Originally the schedule had Mouz vs Acer for last night, but then it got shifted to tonight. Now on the schedule on the website, there's NO game tonight, and Mouz vs Acer has been moved to Sunday, with nothing on tonight OR tomorrow?
This is really starting to bother me :|. I was pumped for Mouz vs Acer both last night AND tonight, wtf?
Might I suggest that your plan be a little more broad? I understand the $10 for a $200 router, but wouldn't it be more feasible to get everyone on board with D-Link and do $1 prize pool increase, regardless of the router type?
On July 13 2013 06:01 Waxangel wrote: this is on at such a terrible time for Korea
You replied almost exactly the same in the DH Valencia topic. We get it, but during the morning is still better than in the middle of the night (Europe), right? And Europe hasn't seen any serious team league on watchable times yet, so get in line :-).
On July 13 2013 06:01 Waxangel wrote: this is on at such a terrible time for Korea
You replied almost exactly the same in the DH Valencia topic. We get it, but during the morning is still better than in the middle of the night (Europe), right? And Europe hasn't seen any serious team league on watchable times yet, so get in line :-).
I love how the observers computer has lagged literally every single game they have broadcast. Funding didn't include any money for a decent gaming rig? :/
On July 13 2013 06:01 Waxangel wrote: this is on at such a terrible time for Korea
You replied almost exactly the same in the DH Valencia topic. We get it, but during the morning is still better than in the middle of the night (Europe), right? And Europe hasn't seen any serious team league on watchable times yet, so get in line :-).
EPT
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