The goal of any mapper is simply to see their map played and enjoyed by people, but they dream of seeing their maps used at the highest level of competition. The first TeamLiquid map contest allowed Cloud Kingdom, Ohana and Korhal Compound to be played on the ladder, and provided a pathway for the first two maps to become tournament staples. The results are in for the second season of TLMC, and we have the privilege of giving a new set of maps the chance to shine on the ladder and/or in tournaments.
In addition to this opportunity, the top three maps will receive the following prizes thanks to Blizzard and TeamLiquid:
1st Place: Mega Bloks Battlecruiser signed by the SC2 Dev Team, Razer Peripheral Set, $100 2nd Place: Kerrigan Action Figure signed by the SC2 Dev Team, Razer Peripheral Set, $50 3rd Place: HotS box art Poster signed by the SC2 Dev Team and Razer Banshee Headset
I know you're eager to see the results, so here they are:
Honorable Mention: TPW Keru, TPW Koprulu by Meerel and Monitor
Keru and Koprulu are 5th and 4th place respectively in this tournament. Koprulu is a highly experimental map featuring the 'double sided expo' idea that was made famous by the Brood War map 'Outsider'. The map is so radically different to anything that we've had before that no one is quite sure how this map will end up - broken? balanced? aggressive? defensive? Welmu, the winner of the TLMC Open, seems to think it will be an aggressive map that will allow for some crazy games. Keru, on the other hand, is clearly an aggressive map. The positioning of the thirds and difficulty of the fourth means that aggression will largely dominate the mid-late game with harass and timing attacks likely to be the strongest strategies on this map.
Third Place: DF Yeonsu by eTcetRa
Yeonsu is a beautiful map. The texturing on this map makes the map look like an alpine environment defrosting after a cold winter. That alone is a huge accomplishment, but beauty isn't the only factor which made this map place so highly. While the main-nat-third setup seems fairly standard, there are a few twists to make things interesting. Firstly, there is a 'forward' base designed to either be a fourth or a third - a Terran may choose to take this forward base against Zerg so that they can better stage attacks against a Zerg's third/fourth. Secondly, there is an island expansion which is something that we haven't seen in a while. Sure, Metropolis had some, but because they were blocked off we rarely saw them taken. With these island bases not blocked it isn't clear how they will be used in HotS -- will Terrans just float CCs over there very early? Will Zergs employ nydus strats to take them? What about Protoss? Expect this map to play out standardly until the mid-late game and then we'll see some interesting things happen.
Runner-up: ESV Ravage by IronManSC
IronManSC, for the second time, places second in the TLMC -- truly a great achievement and a testament to his skill as a mapper. Ravage is a map which is dominated by a central high-ground spanning the entirety of the map. The last time a feature like this was used was in the infamous map 'Jungle Basin', although we're sure that this map will turn out far more balanced than that! The map has a standard main-nat-third setup, with the third being more exposed than most maps. While the fourth base is close by, it is very open allowing harass to be very effective. Players may choose to take the high-ground bases as a fourth instead, so that they can better control the high-ground going into the late game. Ravage is a refreshing twist on standard maps and we're eager to see how it turns out.
Winner: CruX Frost by Semmo
Frost clearly won the public vote and narrowly edged out Ravage to win the pro vote as well. This maps appeal stems from the fact that the unique architecture of the map allows close spawns and cross spawns to have similar rush distances. All three types of spawns will provide for slightly different games and expansion patterns. There are two choices for third bases and players will choose which one to take based on their race, their spawn positions and their opponents spawn positions; both locations are viable in certain situations. Each potential third base has a 'backdoor' of some sorts which allows for harass to be effective. These backdoors are essential to minimise the power of Daybreak-esque turtle/macro strategies and giving the map a skill gradient which gives better players more opportunity to outplay lesser players. Frost is a worthy successor to Cloud Kingdom and winner of TLMC2. Congratulations!
Full Results
Rank
Pro Vote
Public Vote
1
Frost
Frost
2
Ravage
Yeonsu
3
Yeonsu
Ravage
4
Koprulu
Electric Circuit
5
Keru
Koprulu
6
Strangewood
Keru
7
Electric Circuit
Strangewood
8
Khalim's Will
Insidious
9
Insidious
Khalim's Will
The TeamLiquid map contest is only half over -- we still have the teamplay portion of the contest to play out. Originally we planned for a TL Open to test these maps but regrettably there isn't a timeslot for us to do this. Teamplay is inherently a casual/fun format and is meant to be played with friends. To maximise the number of entrants the tournament needs to be held on a weekend. However, the next three weekends are stacked full of top tier tournament action (Dreamhack, Homestory Cup, MLG Anaheim) which means that people would have to choose between watching a tournament and playing in a TL Open. We don't want to force people to make that decision, so we've come up with an alternative.
After the conclusion of Homestory Cup on the 23rd June, we will broadcast a special inter-TL staff tournament played out on these maps. The four teams are: TL Strategy, TL Writers, Liquipedia and TL General. They will compete in a GSL style bracket with the two "advancing" teams playing a best of 5 match to determine the winner. This way everyone will still be able to see the team play maps in action and won't have to commit a whole day to test them out. The precise details of this event will be posted next week once all the teams have been finalised.
In the mean time, please join me in congratulating our winners! I look forward to seeing these maps used in the future.
Congrats semmo! I knew frost would win, it's a helluva good map!
Just to let everyone know, a new version of ravage will be sent to blizzard if they want it on ladder. The new version contains design changes to the 3rd and 4th bases. So please don't let this current version scare you!
On June 11 2013 12:15 FabledIntegral wrote: Is there any reasons start spawns aren't shown and that you can't click the maps to view the enlarged version?
Whoops, I'll add the large images. Visibility of the SPs depends on the image taken of the map, these images don't have them.
while Frost deserves the win, it's bugging me that the more standard ones like Ravage & Yeonsu place so high. Coupled with the reaction in that new ladder maps thread, it seems that people still very much resist innovation and rather stick to conventional standard play Sry Ironman but I hope Ravage wont make ladder
On June 11 2013 12:55 Arceus wrote: while Frost deserves the win, it's bugging me that the more standard ones like Ravage & Yeonsu place so high. Coupled with the reaction in that new ladder maps thread, it seems that people still very much resist innovation and rather stick to conventional standard play Sry Ironman but I hope Ravage wont make ladder
No harm taken. Your opinion is respected. I've learned from Ohana that I can't please everybody. If ravage does make ladder it'll look a little different than what you're seeing right now (3rd and 4th re-designed). I can at least tell you that.
[Yay! I finally created an account after following this site for 6months+...] Nice results. A few questions if I may: How many public votes were they? I think I voted for Yeonsu...
I'm very curious to know about the pros' votes. Which pros does it include (only part of TL?.. Who aren't too busy with proleague and other events? Or anybody who made it to GM can be considered pro? Or GSL-winners only? :p ) How many votes? fanboy question: did HerO vote? What did he vote for? ^^ I'm also very surprised to see such similar results between the pros and amateurs. Personnally, my choice was mainly aesthetic and some small considerations to see if the map wasn't clearly favored to some race; + 1 game against AI to see if it looked fun... I'm low masters (and I'm terrible) so I can see SOME stuff that could be a problem like tank positioning, defendable third etc... However, for pros, it could mean the difference between winning a 10k$+ tournament or losing early to some cheese only allowed by this map because of this or that reason... Then again, I suppose the pros didn't check for every detail on every map and their vote was only after a couple of games and they didn't play 1000 on each... yet
My guess is that the public's vote is actually pretty 'pro' as in, together, we have as good a hindsight as any pro. Also, I'd say that part of the result is that there are few newbish/random votes that mess up the count, but I seriously wonder about that, and I'd like another's opinion (I hadn't created an account when I voted, but it was still taken into consideration, right? are votes weighed? how are they weighed?...)
Finally, if someone could link me the previous TLMC(s?), that'd be great
Anyways, I really hope to see the winners included in the ladder map pool at some point in time, and even more so in major tournaments. Congrats' to the winners!
Voting seems to reflect that most people are scared of change and just want standard maps. The most standard of the mix were 1/2/3 in voting on pro and public poll.
Of course, if we are going to have a standard map then I'm pretty cool with Frost, it's very solid.
After the conclusion of Homestory Cup on the 23rd June, we will broadcast a special inter-TL staff tournament played out on these maps. The four teams are: TL Strategy, TL Writers, Liquipedia and TL General. They will compete in a GSL style bracket with the two "advancing" teams playing a best of 5 match to determine the winner
Some suggestion for improvements: 1. Kick TL General team 2. Ask Take to nominate the 4 most drunk people at HSC and call them Loopie Lui team.
On June 11 2013 12:55 Arceus wrote: while Frost deserves the win, it's bugging me that the more standard ones like Ravage & Yeonsu place so high. Coupled with the reaction in that new ladder maps thread, it seems that people still very much resist innovation and rather stick to conventional standard play Sry Ironman but I hope Ravage wont make ladder
No harm taken. Your opinion is respected. I've learned from Ohana that I can't please everybody. If ravage does make ladder it'll look a little different than what you're seeing right now (3rd and 4th re-designed). I can at least tell you that.
Could you give a preview on how it's going to end up?
Oh gee, I wonder who will win the TL Team Tornament? + Show Spoiler +
Obviously strategy. I think them and the writers will be the only competitive ones (cuz Pokebunny) but in the end strategy is going to rape because they can actually field at least two un-terrible players.
On June 11 2013 14:18 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote: Oh gee, I wonder who will win the TL Team Tornament? + Show Spoiler +
Obviously strategy. I think them and the writers will be the only competitive ones (cuz Pokebunny) but in the end strategy is going to rape because they can actually field at least two un-terrible players.
Congrats to the top 3. I don't think they're a great top 3 but it is what it is. I'm happy for an honorable mention! In my perfect world, Mereel's maps got 2nd and 3rd and Strangewood gets an honorable mention (Frost still winning). But I think all of these maps are good community maps so it is reason to celebrate.
Great choices. I hope these maps will be included in an upcoming ladder season so we can try them out extensively. Cloud Kingdom was the best map of WoL and it's all thanks to Blizzard putting it on ladder that we got to find out about it. Who knows, maybe one of these is the CK of HotS?
the best map (solid and interesting) won. one could find all kind of arguments why the three maps won that differ the least from what we currently have in a competition that was said to search for meta-game changing maps. still quite happy that frost at least took the win over ohana2.0+rocks. that would have been a nightmare, just ask ironman =D
On June 11 2013 15:25 Samro225am wrote: the best map (solid and interesting) won. one could find all kind of arguments why the three maps won that differ the least from what we currently have in a competition that was said to search for meta-game changing maps.
Sigh, the three maps I didn't think should have won, won. Well that's dissapointing and now I'm going to have to waste a veto on Ravage. :/
I think I'm just salty as we finally had some maps that could have been good for mech play go into the pool and none of them got in. I guess I'll have to play another season where the majority of the maps are bad for mech.
I really wish Keru, Korpulu or Electric Circuit won, I mean Yeonsu is alright but I'd have easily preffered any of the others. Grats to the winners though.
I dont want to be a downer, since everyone put so much effort and work into their maps, but i feel sad that we have so many standard maps in the high rankings that also still have/use Watchtowers (especially since BLizz wanted to have more experimental maps, no?) Really surprised about the results, reading the voting thread i expected a totally different outcome ^ _ ^
Anywho, congratulations to the top 3 : Yeonsu, Ravage and Frost. PS: was interesting to see ironman make ravage on his stream.
Keep in mind that Ravage will look quite different if it appears on ladder. There are multiple balance changes that I've been working on.. for example:
On June 11 2013 16:55 IronManSC wrote: Keep in mind that Ravage will look quite different if it appears on ladder. There are multiple balance changes that I've been working on.. for example:
Just one of several other changes. I'm trying my best to make Ravage a little more eye-appealing and more interesting.
So you're changing one genuinly interesting part of Ravage in the fact it had a harder to take third? I'm confused, why enter with one map then have it completely different after the contest is over.
On June 11 2013 16:55 IronManSC wrote: Keep in mind that Ravage will look quite different if it appears on ladder. There are multiple balance changes that I've been working on.. for example:
Just one of several other changes. I'm trying my best to make Ravage a little more eye-appealing and more interesting.
So you're changing one genuinly interesting part of Ravage in the fact it had a harder to take third? I'm confused, why enter with one map then have it completely different after the contest is over.
Balance criticism. Lots of it. Until the day comes when, or if, it reaches ladder, it should be fixed up as much as possible. Don't forget what Ohana had to go through from TLMC to ladder. That was a nightmare that i'm trying to avoid this time around by just putting all the updated stuff in one file and then not worrying about it after that.
I'm not too too surprised with the results. The maps that received the pro votes are closest to what we consider standard, but with enough new twists to not only make them interesting but still keep them balanced.
While Electric Circuit got a lot of public votes because people like the radical new base layout, I anticipated a lot of problems regarding early timing pushes with tanks or blink stalker play, because the architecture of the map allows the one controlling the high ground to potentially control the main and 3rd while also constricting access to the nat, a potential imbalance, but we haven't seen enough games on it to be sure.
Keru and Koprulu have other problems, on Keru because of the difficulty of taking and holding the 3rd and then the 4th, I kind of expect the map to quickly devolve to 2 base timings from all races which will get boring quite quickly if its the only thing people do. Koprulu while it allows more macro play, I believe is fundamentally flawed because no matter where you expand towards, two bases can be harassed at the same time from behind the mineral wall. And while normal that would be fine, it actually is a big problem because terrans and tosses have more ranged units and styles and zerg is primarily melee units or low range units. That factor coupled with the new mobility of terran will make the map very difficult for zerg to play at the highest level.
Overall happy with the results, looking forward to seeing the top 3 in tournaments and hopefully on ladder.
On June 11 2013 17:04 Destructicon wrote: I'm not too too surprised with the results. The maps that received the pro votes are closest to what we consider standard, but with enough new twists to not only make them interesting but still keep them balanced.
While Electric Circuit got a lot of public votes because people like the radical new base layout, I anticipated a lot of problems regarding early timing pushes with tanks or blink stalker play, because the architecture of the map allows the one controlling the high ground to potentially control the main and 3rd while also constricting access to the nat, a potential imbalance, but we haven't seen enough games on it to be sure.
Keru and Koprulu have other problems, on Keru because of the difficulty of taking and holding the 3rd and then the 4th, I kind of expect the map to quickly devolve to 2 base timings from all races which will get boring quite quickly if its the only thing people do. Koprulu while it allows more macro play, I believe is fundamentally flawed because no matter where you expand towards, two bases can be harassed at the same time from behind the mineral wall. And while normal that would be fine, it actually is a big problem because terrans and tosses have more ranged units and styles and zerg is primarily melee units or low range units. That factor coupled with the new mobility of terran will make the map very difficult for zerg to play at the highest level.
Overall happy with the results, looking forward to seeing the top 3 in tournaments and hopefully on ladder.
The mineral wall wouldn't be a problem for zerg either as they've got mutalisks which are pretty common in pretty much every situation.
On June 11 2013 17:04 Destructicon wrote: I'm not too too surprised with the results. The maps that received the pro votes are closest to what we consider standard, but with enough new twists to not only make them interesting but still keep them balanced.
While Electric Circuit got a lot of public votes because people like the radical new base layout, I anticipated a lot of problems regarding early timing pushes with tanks or blink stalker play, because the architecture of the map allows the one controlling the high ground to potentially control the main and 3rd while also constricting access to the nat, a potential imbalance, but we haven't seen enough games on it to be sure.
Keru and Koprulu have other problems, on Keru because of the difficulty of taking and holding the 3rd and then the 4th, I kind of expect the map to quickly devolve to 2 base timings from all races which will get boring quite quickly if its the only thing people do. Koprulu while it allows more macro play, I believe is fundamentally flawed because no matter where you expand towards, two bases can be harassed at the same time from behind the mineral wall. And while normal that would be fine, it actually is a big problem because terrans and tosses have more ranged units and styles and zerg is primarily melee units or low range units. That factor coupled with the new mobility of terran will make the map very difficult for zerg to play at the highest level.
Overall happy with the results, looking forward to seeing the top 3 in tournaments and hopefully on ladder.
The mineral wall wouldn't be a problem for zerg either as they've got mutalisks which are pretty common in pretty much every situation.
Mutas are very common in ZvT, but they are starting to get phased out in ZvZ after the spore change, and they are choice in ZvP, the map would kind of force only mutas in most cases just to deal with this threat, which would, again, get dull quickly if it was the only thing people did. Also mutas are bad for straight up fights, when the only rapid response to a terran drop is mutas, you know you're in a world or pain, it would take a simple double drop behind the mineral wall with 6 marines and 1 mine each to not only cause significant damage to the mineral lines but also deal terrible, terrible damage to the mutas that come to defend. If the zerg sends ground units back there to potentially defend then they are opening themselves up to pushes and drops in other areas.
Damn, I was rooting for Khalim's will... felt like it could push the meta.
Congratulations to all the mapmakers and whoever submitted, the community and whoever vote. I believe this contest make the game better. Hoping for a TLMC #3! + Show Spoiler +
Prediction for TL clash: strategy first, writers last. >_>
Good job Yeonsu and Frost. Would have liked at least one of EC, mereel's maps, or samros in the top 3 but you just can't depend on the pro vote, can you? But Frost/Yeonsu on ladder will be great. :D
On June 11 2013 18:41 EatThePath wrote: Good job Yeonsu and Frost. Would have liked at least one of EC, mereel's maps, or samros in the top 3 but you just can't depend on the pro vote, can you? But Frost/Yeonsu on ladder will be great. :D
you have to note pro vote is not that far away from public vote!
consider what many posters already offered as a reason: why vote for something that "might" be off the usual path when you can vote for something considerable interesting enough?
also you are totally biased (: towards "design", e.g. maps with very specific features that challenge the meta-game (and might break it for some matchups) as well as maps that are based on decisions which first and foremost are interesting from the producer standpoint. Some design decisions just cannot be appreciated really, example - I can only speak for my map (Strangewood) - what pro player would want a map where the game plan would depend on the spawn? How do you not auto-veto a map where it depends on chance if you get a macro or an aggressive early game?
Biggest difference between Frost and Strangewood? Frost offers fairly similar distances whereas Strangewood creates bigger devations. How does Frost do this? Far away outside path and one linear connection through the middle no matter where you spawn. Totally not a fan of such an element where you cut options for the sake of linearity. It still is the best map here and it is based on some very good design decisions.
In the end such competitions highlight only few maps out of many very good maps (there are some very good maps most have never heard of and which just did not finish top9 and will be gone forever), i guess i am happy about 6th place. in my opinion the winning maps represent the smartest design choices overall (monk:"baby steps")
I will learn from this experience and will tend to pick the safer options next time =D
Hi. I played these maps, and felt some inconveniences as 3/4th placing in the map contest tournament. Many popular picks have vacant spaces to place overlords, in intention to allow overlords to be placed without being sniped before 5 minute mark, which I see lacking in most of new maps. Although I love new maps and concepts, maybe it's good to consider modding it little bit.
gg, all the polls did was filter out the most standard maps to become top 3. This community (including the pros) is soo conservative and hates change apparently. That's why in Korea they just say fuck it and put out Gwandelli Beach and Anaconda without asking anyone in the public and in TLMC (like this) we will only ever erase any possibility for non-standard and innovative maps to go anywhere.
Truly sad about the results and not looking forward to TLMC 3 now.
P.S.: My rant isn't about Frost which is a deserved winner, congrats Semmmo for making the first good 4p mirrored map in SC2!!
"There are two choices for third bases and players will choose which one to take based on their race, their spawn positions and their spawn positions" I guess one of those is meant to say "their opponents spawn positions"
I can't believe that the most boring map of them all won the hole thing. Even the new ladder maps are more experimental Why on earth are most people on this world so conservative....really blows my mind.
Any chance for a link to the VODs (and Replays) in the OP? The links on Liquipedia are dead, unfortunately.
These maps look gorgeous and to all those complaining that they are too standard: if you do something completely out there, it will not find tournament use. These map are just different enough to be fresh without being totally weirdo, at least that is my gut feeling without having seen games played on it (stupid buis trip last week).
On June 11 2013 12:10 Tosster wrote: Electric Circuit on 7#? Who the fuck voted?
So much this. I really really wanted ec to make top 3 really really badly, and I actually played a lot of customs on it with friends and thought it worked quiet well for star 2...
Other than that gratz to the winners, I only really like ravage out of the top 3 though...
On June 11 2013 21:12 ACrow wrote: Any chance for a link to the VODs (and Replays) in the OP? The links on Liquipedia are dead, unfortunately.
These maps look gorgeous and to all those complaining that they are too standard: if you do something completely out there, it will not find tournament use. These map are just different enough to be fresh without being totally weirdo, at least that is my gut feeling without having seen games played on it (stupid buis trip last week).
On June 11 2013 12:22 NewSunshine wrote: Koreans win everything man. I told people, but they wouldn't listen. :/
This'll probably appear more racist than I intend it. But I've noticed that most Koreans have pretty bad English compared to Europeans, so where did Semmo get his English from?
All the Koreans with flawless English that I've seen are either professional translators or businesspeople in the latter profession good English is of course a must.
On June 11 2013 21:12 ACrow wrote: Any chance for a link to the VODs (and Replays) in the OP? The links on Liquipedia are dead, unfortunately.
These maps look gorgeous and to all those complaining that they are too standard: if you do something completely out there, it will not find tournament use. These map are just different enough to be fresh without being totally weirdo, at least that is my gut feeling without having seen games played on it (stupid buis trip last week).
DF Yeonsu is the best one imo, made for some really epic games in the TL Open. Frost just won because of the tile set and cause its a good map, but mainly cause of the tile set
Very happy with the top 3 results! These are the maps that had the most balanced and interesting games that I saw! Congrats to Semmo, IronmanSc, and eTcetRa on being the top 3 finishers.
I'm not sure it's advisable to reflexively vote for the most out there maps, even though I did vote for Koprulu. These maps are to be considered for the ladder, and since in my opinion there is a lack of quality/fresh standard maps there, it is very sensible to have several new candidates to fill this role. Cloud Kingdom was a standard map but it served the competitive scene well for a long time. I think it's more important to have high quality maps than to have more innovative maps, so I think that while Star Station and Akilon Wastes are in the map pool the actual votes for this contest were sensible.
Congrats to the winners! I hope we get some of these on ladder as well as some of the team maps. Its too bad there won't be a bigger tourney for the team maps, but the entertainment factor being crucial in team maps the format that was chosen should be a lot of fun
On June 11 2013 20:14 Ragoo wrote: gg, all the polls did was filter out the most standard maps to become top 3. This community (including the pros) is soo conservative and hates change apparently. That's why in Korea they just say fuck it and put out Gwandelli Beach and Anaconda without asking anyone in the public and in TLMC (like this) we will only ever erase any possibility for non-standard and innovative maps to go anywhere.
I think this is true for the most part, anytime you have voting like this you will end up getting the consensus. Part of the problem is that judging non standard maps is not an easy task since often times the features of that map haven't been seen in high level play before at all. Everyone will have a different opinion on what non-standard features will work v what will not, and so the polls will tend to go more towards what people know already. I think if you want to have more non-standard maps chosen, you must eliminate this tendency towards finding the consensus amongst a large pool of potential maps. Thats what the Koreans did, (Although Gwandelli Beach and Anaconda are weird to say the least o.O )
On June 11 2013 12:10 Tosster wrote: Electric Circuit on 7#? Who the fuck voted?
So much this. I really really wanted ec to make top 3 really really badly, and I actually played a lot of customs on it with friends and thought it worked quiet well for star 2...
Other than that gratz to the winners, I only really like ravage out of the top 3 though...
there's a pathing issue at the choke point imo on electric circuit. at least the TLMC version. i hope the RSL version fixed it.
On June 11 2013 23:31 TheFish7 wrote: Congrats to the winners! I hope we get some of these on ladder as well as some of the team maps. Its too bad there won't be a bigger tourney for the team maps, but the entertainment factor being crucial in team maps the format that was chosen should be a lot of fun
On June 11 2013 20:14 Ragoo wrote: gg, all the polls did was filter out the most standard maps to become top 3. This community (including the pros) is soo conservative and hates change apparently. That's why in Korea they just say fuck it and put out Gwandelli Beach and Anaconda without asking anyone in the public and in TLMC (like this) we will only ever erase any possibility for non-standard and innovative maps to go anywhere.
I think this is true for the most part, anytime you have voting like this you will end up getting the consensus. Part of the problem is that judging non standard maps is not an easy task since often times the features of that map haven't been seen in high level play before at all. Everyone will have a different opinion on what non-standard features will work v what will not, and so the polls will tend to go more towards what people know already. I think if you want to have more non-standard maps chosen, you must eliminate this tendency towards finding the consensus amongst a large pool of potential maps. Thats what the Koreans did, (Although Gwandelli Beach and Anaconda are weird to say the least o.O )
Non-standard maps are likely to be plain worse than the standard ones, because you could say that a standard map is just another iteration of a proven concept and that therefore it's likely that each new generation of standard maps will be an improvement. A map like Koprulu does not have this luxury, it has to break a lot of new ground on its own and has a high risk of leading to one-dimensional gameplay once the playerbase learns to abuse some of its unique features.
I think it's not a bad thing that Koprulu did not make it. The interest was there, it was reasonably close to getting top three and I think it's likely that we'll see future use of some of its concepts. (as long as tournament organizers pay attention to these type of contests and conversations) It has been tested a little bit and I'm sure that map makers now have a more thorough understanding of what makes e.g. the double base mineral blockers work and that in the feature maps like this will be even better.
A little bummed Strangewood didn't make it in the top because I really felt that map was standard enough yet had enough cool innovative features to make it feel fresh. Also I think I would have liked to see some more Electronic Circuit games to see how that played out, especially since the TLMC Tournament ended up using wrong versions of it multiple times.
Overall, I'm still not that huge of a fan of Frost, but it's still a solid map. Yeonsu & Ravage are both great as well.
It'd be nice to get these 3 maps on ladder next season, then I could spend my vetos on the other shitty maps (Star Station, Derelect, Red City, etc etc)
I want to explain why i think frost is boring... not because its a "standard" map and has no new feature but -)the main is on the highground nat on the middle with a small choke point and no way to get a reaper in the base (to make sure everything is 100% safe) -) the map is huge (to make sure that there is no rush before 20 min) -) 70% of the map are on the low ground, (well no one wants to run unprepaired into an army) -)no overlord spots ( ahhh zerg has creep so why bother, not to forget there are 2 watchtowers that see almost everything) -)in those narrow paths at 3,6,9 and 12 there is no way to flank so the only thing you can do is counterattack
I don't see what makes the map interesting or better than others so please can someone explain to me why its a good map.
I think the main is a little too small on Frost, especially in lategame scenarios there's not a lot of space to build imo. Other than that i think the map is very interesting, although TvZ on cross positions might be quite hard.
On June 12 2013 10:38 MythZero wrote: So do we get to see Frost in ladder next season? :D
Just like last time, Blizzard mentioned that any map will be considered for ladder. In TLMC1, the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place maps were all put on ladder. I assume it will be the same agenda for this year's TLMC, but I could be wrong. Who knows, they may look at the top 9 instead of the top 3 this time. I think it's safe to say that Frost will definitely be on ladder, and mabye some of the other maps if blizzard deems it best.
Hi guys! this is Semmo. I just wanted to let you know that I decided to remove the watchtower on Frost; it wasn't that good, I agree. Also, I'll be doing an aesthetic update very soon! Stay tuned
On June 11 2013 12:55 Arceus wrote: while Frost deserves the win, it's bugging me that the more standard ones like Ravage & Yeonsu place so high. Coupled with the reaction in that new ladder maps thread, it seems that people still very much resist innovation and rather stick to conventional standard play Sry Ironman but I hope Ravage wont make ladder
No harm taken. Your opinion is respected. I've learned from Ohana that I can't please everybody. If ravage does make ladder it'll look a little different than what you're seeing right now (3rd and 4th re-designed). I can at least tell you that.
Actually I am so happy that Ravage is nb2. Shows that you are on the right path. I love design and light colors, really sick of those dark depressing and unviewable maps ( i can't play dark maps while sun is shining into my room). Thank You and i hope we will see Ravage @ ladder.
ps. Would be possible to move destructible plates to the other side of the ramp, not sure if currently they do not obstruct fe untirush spine place?
On June 12 2013 10:38 MythZero wrote: So do we get to see Frost in ladder next season? :D
Just like last time, Blizzard mentioned that any map will be considered for ladder. In TLMC1, the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place maps were all put on ladder. I assume it will be the same agenda for this year's TLMC, but I could be wrong. Who knows, they may look at the top 9 instead of the top 3 this time. I think it's safe to say that Frost will definitely be on ladder, and mabye some of the other maps if blizzard deems it best.
Actually I think they were mainly focusing on 2v2, 3v3, and 4v4. I don't expect any of the 1v1s to be on ladder. The most I hope for is being in WCS.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/M8uXDCh.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/tY3mKrg.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/do0yxE8.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/PEDEHka.jpg)
and cause its a good map, but mainly cause of the tile set![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/maps/508_Sniper%20Ridge.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/uJtR4N5.jpg)
