EPT
Racial Balance in GSL (2010-2013 WoL) - Page 3
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Daswollvieh
5553 Posts
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Orek
1665 Posts
On March 09 2013 20:03 StarscreamG1 wrote: True. Added a graph.Just missed overall GSL graphs, but not bad. + Show Spoiler [overall winrate] + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/5cj1jTQ.png) | ||
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sitromit
7051 Posts
On March 09 2013 21:10 JazzNL wrote: Zerg OP, Protoss Underpowered, gosh really? Come on, this has been obvious for years, the only person actually believing Protoss was overpowered is IdrA because he felt he should win every game with mass Roaches, even versus Colossus, hence Protoss OP and you get many clueless idiots regurgitating IdrA's baseless opinion. What can I say, in the end it worked, his race has been ridiculously imbalanced for a long long time, all the while Zergs were still qqing about Protoss. His little endless rant paid off even though it wasn't good for the game, only made the worst race worse and the best race better (yet still, even as a Zerg player, he didn't book any results?) I don't dislike IdrA, I respect the guy a lot but I hate the role he's played in making the clueless loud idiots amongst us believe Protoss is OP (which it's not) and Zerg is shit (lol, best race since roachbuff by far). Blizzard failed hard, nothing new there as they've failed with every single one of their franchises for the past few years. The balance in WoL has been laughable, I hope HotS will bring a better game. You looked at those graphs and this is what you saw? LOL... User was warned for this post | ||
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redviper
Pakistan2333 Posts
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Poopi
France13022 Posts
Kinda sad for the protoss that their race relies that much on all-ins, hard to be consistent with a race like that. | ||
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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ShamW0W
160 Posts
Understandably at the time the thought process was to try and break up deathballs but surely there was a more elegant solution than buffing the Infestor. Let's see how HOTS goes and hope for the best! edit: An idea for the graph would be to add in any major balance changes that correlate with large shifts in the data. | ||
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covetousrat
2109 Posts
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thezanursic
5504 Posts
So I would argue that T is a little worse of than the graphs would indicated by a few percent | ||
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ShamW0W
160 Posts
On March 09 2013 21:59 thezanursic wrote: You are ignoring that many talented people got their career killed because T got nerfed. In terms of numbers the majority of Korean pros were Terran and this remains true (a lot of them are in code A/B now) So I would argue that T is a little worse of than the graphs would indicated by a few percent Based on what? This argument doesn't really make any sense. The same subjective argument could easily be made to refute it: "Terran OPness created many careers"... Not that I would agree with a statement like that but it makes as much sense as what you've said here. | ||
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keglu
Poland485 Posts
On March 09 2013 21:00 JJH777 wrote: The GSL right before that had them doing pretty badly too. DRG won but he had tons of extremely close calls and zerg had the worst overall representation in each round. DRG was pretty much the only zerg doing well in 2012 pre queen patch. I guess Nestea had his IPL4 run but that was just one example and IPL4 was a very bad tournament for zergs overall. It had 4 players in the top 20 and 3 of those players were guaranteed to get top 20 even if they lost every match. Curious was the only zerg who got out of the open bracket. MLGs had DRG doing very well but they were consistently the lowest represented in the top 16s and top 8s. So maybe you are the one with bias and judging results from 1 player? That's even worse than judging from 1 tournament. Nope, i judging from this, not from one player. http://i.imgur.com/0fwpyh.png | ||
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FrozenProbe
Italy276 Posts
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archonOOid
1983 Posts
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MateShade
Australia736 Posts
On March 09 2013 20:48 JJH777 wrote: Immediately before the queen patch Zerg had their worst GSL season ever. Only 2 in the ro16 and 0 in the ro8. They only had like 5-6 in the ro32 too. I wouldn't call that hitting perfect balance.. Obviously the queen patch wasn't the right answer but zerg was very weak before the queen patch. Yes, zerg had their worst season ever. 7 in the ro32, aside from that you are correct. The season previously was won by zerg (DRG) and leenock came runner up the season before that. The current imbalance is a result of knee-jerk patches. Protoss were becoming notably underpowered over the course of 6 months prior to this period. Protoss received several buffs (rightly so). this resulted in a saturation of protoss players in the top end of gsl, and zerg suffered for it (except the fact that leenock came 2nd and DRG won the gsl.. 'suffered' is a very harsh word for what really happened...). In the 6 months before the queen patch, the game was looking more balanced than it had ever been, and then a short drop for zerg happened at the end. There was no evidence to suggest that zerg actually needed any buffs, they went through a relatively short period (2-3 months) where zerg win rates dropped below the other races. And then came the queen buff.. way too quickly and way too unsubstantiated.. and then afterwards another long period of imbalance - similar to protoss - where terran is now the weakest race. Even though zerg is/was getting nerfed over the past 2 months (rightly so), zerg win rates continue to rise. This suggests to me that if the queen patch never happened, zerg would have recovered just fine. If the queen patch never happened we would be much closer to balance than what has happened now, which is basically the most imbalance sc2 has seen yet. | ||
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thezanursic
5504 Posts
And a lot of people would argue that KESPA's OMAT intentionally made a lot of maps favoring P/Z during that period to stop FlasH from winning everything, but that is a little bit to over the top for me personally. i am just trying to say that balance works a little differently in BW so it shouldn't be used as a comparison. I do hope that this changes and more ways are introduced into SC2 with which the player can express his skill and undermind balance (I am not saying there are none though) | ||
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samurai80
Japan4225 Posts
On March 09 2013 22:05 ShamW0W wrote: Based on what? This argument doesn't really make any sense. The same subjective argument could easily be made to refute it: "Terran OPness created many careers"... Not that I would agree with a statement like that but it makes as much sense as what you've said here. Almost exactly what I was about to say. | ||
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Serimek
France2274 Posts
It is a very good time to stop WoL imo. | ||
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Calliopee
Denmark151 Posts
Keep up the awesome work - and here's for a new start with HotS! Slightly OT; I kinda enjoy the 'OP'ness certain races experience - it makes it so much better when the 'underdogs' come out on top - alot of protossplayers comes to mind | ||
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thezanursic
5504 Posts
On March 09 2013 22:05 ShamW0W wrote: Based on what? This argument doesn't really make any sense. The same subjective argument could easily be made to refute it: "Terran OPness created many careers"... Not that I would agree with a statement like that but it makes as much sense as what you've said here. You are ignoring the influx of players at the begining and after terran got resonably balanced T players didn't switch their race because it's a gurantee career killer. Now if the influx of new players was constant and it weren't an demographic explosion into stagnation you'd be, right. The race that will be op at HoTs release will have a large representation for a long period of time even after getting balanced, the over-representation won't be as noticable as it was with WOL because a lot of the old skill won't switch regardless of balance, but don't be surprised if you see huge race swings at the beginning of hots and that race staying relatively strong regardless of balance. | ||
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Figgy
Canada1788 Posts
That destroyed pretty much everything. Also poor Protoss it's really unfortunate they don't QQ enough they've always done the worst since the start. | ||
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