Sometimes I feel like Starcraft II has lost its luster for me, and this thread has led me to believe maps may be the root.
As much as it's not a highly regarded opinion, maps like Scrap Station, Xel'naga Caverns, Tal'darim Altar, Kulas Ravine, and Desert Oasis bring interesting variety to the game. Like thezanursic put it:
On March 09 2013 16:26 thezanursic wrote: WOL= It's a different map. How can I play the same style slightly differently on this map?
In order to bring life to the game, we can add new unit and abilities, etch out new strategies and lines of thought for each race, or add new maps which add real decisions to be made.
It seems like what the community wants is a map which offers no resistance, and makes their choices easy. Oh, there's my third. Here's the way I'm going to attack his natural. My old strategies work on this new map; good.
What I'm not saying is that any of the maps I mentioned are better than a map like Cloud Kingdom.
Desert Oasis, for example, is a prototype of its genre. It has imbalances (many), but it marks the foundation of a number of maps which could be influenced by it. Cloud Kingdom is an excellently designed map and has its own flavor. But if I can make an analogy to flavors: Cloud Kingdom and other maps like it are vanilla-flavored, and a map like Desert Oasis would be strawberry flavored. Both can be good! I'd even be willing to say I like vanilla more than strawberry! But variety is important. Building and executing new and intricate strategies is the most fun part of Starcraft.
On March 09 2013 12:40 Azelja wrote: A zerg icon... hmm... That certainly explains some of the picks.
Yup, I was thinking that as well.
Personally, I find Cloud Kingdom to be a very average map, it's ok i guess, but certainly no way #1.
Barrin is a highly respected mapper and has a vast amount of experience when it comes to creating and analyzing maps. tldr; he knows his shit! While you may not agree with his list, I can understand why he has ranked things the way he has purely from a mapping point of view.
Sorry Plexa.. but.....
just because someone is "respected" and has experience, does not mean they cannot be biased. By his map choices, it is CLEAR that his choices are biased somewhat.
He's got decent choices, but the choices are not reflective of all races.
I would have loved to have seen map veto's from tournaments, race matching, etc. That data we will never be able to get our hands on. That would speak volumes.
On March 09 2013 12:40 Azelja wrote: A zerg icon... hmm... That certainly explains some of the picks.
Yup, I was thinking that as well.
Personally, I find Cloud Kingdom to be a very average map, it's ok i guess, but certainly no way #1.
Barrin is a highly respected mapper and has a vast amount of experience when it comes to creating and analyzing maps. tldr; he knows his shit! While you may not agree with his list, I can understand why he has ranked things the way he has purely from a mapping point of view.
Sorry Plexa.. but.....
just because someone is "respected" and has experience, does not mean they cannot be biased. By his map choices, it is CLEAR that his choices are biased somewhat.
He's got decent choices, but the choices are not reflective of all races.
I would have loved to have seen map veto's from tournaments, race matching, etc. That data we will never be able to get our hands on. That would speak volumes.
His choices don't seem biased to me at all... If you see it as zerg-favored somehow I think you're the biased one. I guess metal and Crossfire ended up kinda Z favored but not at all times. Metal was at one point the most solid map in the pool, and for Crossfire the racial balance changed a lot through the life of the map as the metagame shifted. And the reason it was hard PvZ was because the map makers fixed the PvZ imbalance by making maps with easy thirds, instead of waiting for Blizzard to fix it, so the map became imbalanced.
The other ones in the top five weren't really Z favored at all aside from the general Z favor in recent time in WoL.
He didn't even but Steppes in the worst maps list.
I very much agree with the list, especially when taking into account the times the maps were in the scene. I don't fully understand the extreme list but I liked a good number of them. Maybe bump Crossfire from the best list and throw Belshir Beach up there. Antiga Shipyard might have fairly balanced map stats but the flow flaws you mentioned made it a complete bore to watch and play.
The issue with putting Bel'shir Beach in the best list is pretty much every single game led to a basetrade, especially against zerg. It was one of those maps that was "big" in the wrong sense and there were two paths quite far away from each other. With the bases so cllose to each other too, you might as well just go base trade as by the time your army can get back you've lost 3 bases.
Having "Crossfire" as one of the "best" maps makes me wanna scream. This map basically robbed Genius of a Code S win against DRG. Yes DRG is awesome and all, but I still have a sour memory of this GSL final.
that proleague map with rocks and minerals at every edge of the corner was my favorite map by far. Thing about map is we should not try to find one that is the most balance, but one that gives the most interesting game play.
I have seen shit played on that map that doesn't exist anywhere else.
Maps can also be very powerful tools for balancing. I have no idea why blizz still uses WoL maps for HOTS when things have changed
EPT
