Evil Geniuses' Marcus "ThorZaIN" Eklöf is the first ever foreigner to grab the honor of the MVP title for Proleague round one.
On January 3rd, 2013, reporters from all around put in their votes for the round one MVP for SC2 Proleague 2012-2013 and ThorZaIN won the first place spot.
Marcus Eklöf won against STX SouL's Classic in game five on Arkanoid on December 29th, 2012, and gave EG-TL the final needed victory. That victory put ThorZaIN into candidacy for the MVP spot for Proleague round one. In the end, ThorZaIN defeated Team 8's BaBy, EG-TL's Jaedong, and KT Rolster's Flash in the voting competition and grabbed the MVP title for round one.
ThorZaIN's victory was really special because his victory was the first foreigner victory against a Korean in over seven years and six months for Proleague. The last foreigner to win before ThorZaIN was back in 2006 during SKY Proleague where E-Nature Top's Legionnaire won against ClouD. Afterwards, no other foreigner took a victory, nor did they have opportunities to get sent out.
EG-TL's supervisor, Hwanni, stated that "ThorZaIN's victory in Proleague was the first foreigner victory in 2748 days so I think that's why it has been receiving a lot of recognition. I believe this achievement is not only a victory for ThorZaIN but for every other foreigner player out there as well."
P.S. According to Daily eSports, ThorZaIN has been given the nickname "Blue Eyed Warrior"
On January 10 2013 17:08 EG.Thorzain wrote: I don't really know how i was elected MVP, 1-3 stats in round 1. >______________< Thx tho
lol... watching thorzain win was cool and all but... they gave him MVP? I've never watched proleague before but doesn't this by itself kind of make the title completely useless...?
To be fair, this award has always been completely arbitrary, so it's not like they're making some sort of strange exception to give it to Thorzain here. Good on him~
That's odd, but it's interesting that a foreigner winning (in that amount of time) is significant to Koreans. Would have thought it's more of a big deal to us, and that be it.
Well i for one think its good that they decided to honor him in this way. A foreigner winning is a big deal since it hasn't happen in such a long time. And i guess this is also their way of saying now we are in even playing field? maybe koreans will take foreigners more seriously now.
So was there a second vote for actual MVP or do we just not have a real one for this round? There's players out there who have actually won multiple games, sometimes even in the same match.
interesting. This must be tough for Thorzain to express. Even if he feels unjustified, he may owe it to his sponsors to be cordial with the extra exposure.
Personally, I hate the feeling of my viewership being bought like this.
This is like Jordan carrying the Bulls into the championship game 6 and some random white player on his team scores the last 2 points to win it and getting MVP for the tournament just for winning the game and being white.
thorzain looked so boss on his stream yesterday that i took a screenshot and sent it to my pencil artist buddy. gonna frame the shit out of it and hang it on my wall.
On January 10 2013 13:37 gosublade wrote: thorzain looked so boss on his stream yesterday that i took a screenshot and sent it to my pencil artist buddy. gonna frame the shit out of it and hang it on my wall.
You are going to post the finished product in his fan club, eh?
This is their nod to the new team, the foreign fans, and Thorzain himself. It's not just about winning the most games. Thorzain represents what is valuable, now, to the Proleague...
MVP for round one because he took a game off Classic and he's the first foreigner to win a game of SC2 in Pro League? Sorry this is kind of a joke and they know it too. lol
On January 10 2013 13:35 wptlzkwjd wrote: This is like Jordan carrying the Bulls into the championship game 7 and some random white player on his team scores the last 2 points to win it and getting MVP for the tournament just for winning the game and being white.
No offense to Thorzain, but comparing Steve Kerr to him seems awfully kind to Thorzain.
This award does seem like it's just a white guy award though.
On January 10 2013 13:35 wptlzkwjd wrote: This is like Jordan carrying the Bulls into the championship game 7 and some random white player on his team scores the last 2 points to win it and getting MVP for the tournament just for winning the game and being white.
No offense to Thorzain, but comparing Steve Kerr to him seems awfully kind to Thorzain.
This award does seem like it's just a white guy award though.
Pretty much Jibba and someone really needs to tell KeSPA to stop trying to combining the stats of the two games. It's a running joke at this point.
This total stinks of marketing shanenigans to get more attention from foreigner viewers. I mean, it was an amazing accomplishment and a memorable day in SC2 history, but that doesn't elect you the MVP. It just doesn't. It's like playing in the NBA and winning the MVP because you scored 60 points in a game that gave your team a spot in the postseason.
It was either a marketing strategy or yet another proof that you don't ask the public to vote for anything.
On January 10 2013 13:35 wptlzkwjd wrote: This is like Jordan carrying the Bulls into the championship game 7 and some random white player on his team scores the last 2 points to win it and getting MVP for the tournament just for winning the game and being white.
No offense to Thorzain, but comparing Steve Kerr to him seems awfully kind to Thorzain.
This award does seem like it's just a white guy award though.
lol true Kerr had ring already by that time.
Oh well, I hope at least the Koreans won't complain too much as they were the ones that voted for him.
Koreans must think foreigners are the worst of the worst, when they give Foreigner MVP because he wins 1 Game... :D I can't wait if Stephano wins 2 Games in a Row... I bet he wins player of the Century!
Well as it's a vote, there may be things we're not seeing...maybe some of the voters feel he plays much better than we do? (even in his losses)
I think that it's most likely because A) he won the match for EG-TL which Koreans put more emphasis on TEAM results rather than INDIVIDUAL results. (and i'm sure there's a lot of pressure to go in late in the matchup and win for your team) and B) the whole foreigner not winning for 6 years probably just made him look more impressive to them.
I'm very happy Thorzain is competing in Proleague and the more foreigners that are competing in Korea the better regardless of whether it's GSL or Proleague, but...this is some charity for the foreign fans. Kinda lame imo.
Congrats to Thorzain, but honestly this does somewhat make the award lose a lot of credibility. Thorzain only won because he had the fortune to be born in Sweden and not Seoul.
Honestly, I feel kind of sad that they gave MVP to a foreigner for this. I see the achievement, but this game isn't Brood War, the skill level isn't that different. I'm a huge ThorZaiN fan btw.
On January 10 2013 14:05 Netsky wrote: I'm very happy Thorzain is competing in Proleague and the more foreigners that are competing in Korea the better regardless of whether it's GSL or Proleague, but...this is some charity for the foreign fans. Kinda lame imo.
Even after Legionnaire,some foreigner players tried to play in proleague these years, Idra,LX,PJ,etc.All of them failed. Couldn't win or just as a B-teamer.Finally ,Thorzain did it.
Maybe it's a marketing, but Thorzain really beyond something anyone else couldn't. and it's R1 MVP not the season's,why should win/lose rate be the only standard?
I agree with the people that it was kind of a pity MVP. Should have been Stats imo with his 5-0 which tied him for best map score difference (there was a few 6-1) but the only player to have a 100% win rate with more than 2 games played. Nonetheless, congrats Thorzain
Last season they gave Jaedong a weekly MVP for his legendary drone wall in his game vs. Flying. So yeah... I don't think they take the MVP award too seriously.
On January 10 2013 14:05 Netsky wrote: I'm very happy Thorzain is competing in Proleague and the more foreigners that are competing in Korea the better regardless of whether it's GSL or Proleague, but...this is some charity for the foreign fans. Kinda lame imo.
Even after Legionnaire,some foreigner players tried to play in proleague these years, Idra,LX,PJ,etc.All of them failed. Couldn't win or just as a B-teamer.Finally ,Thorzain did it.
Maybe it's a marketing, but Thorzain really beyond something anyone else couldn't. and it's R1 MVP not the season's,why should win/lose rate be the only standard?
Please... it's a different game. Those things aren't comparable.
On January 10 2013 14:26 freeshooter wrote: MVP for winning one game?
2010-2011,a proleague player very probable to grabs week MVP just by a win from defeated KT_Flash the God. no mattler how many he lost. Win rate never the only standard on week or round Mvp in proleague.
Totally undeserved Right now he's 1-5 in Proleague, and his only win came against Classic, and it wasn't even the ace match. I know he's the foreign hope blah blah blah but KeSPA could at least disguise this attempt to get more foreign viewers a little better.
On January 10 2013 14:26 freeshooter wrote: MVP for winning one game?
2010-2011,a proleague player very probable to grabs week MVP just by a win from defeated KT_Flash the God. no mattler how many he lost. Win rate never the only standard on week or round Mvp in proleague.
lol This guy is still trying to defend it. Yeah, he got the MVP for breaking Flash's streak. Much different than beating Classic lmao.
I like Thorzain, but I feel that it's rather silly to give him MVP. I understand the significance of symbolic gestures, but it just doesn't work when the recipient's PL record is overshadowed by so many other players.
Sadly he only got the reward because he's the only foreigner to win in so long. His 1 out of 4 wins isn't very impressive not to mention Classic isn't exactly the most top calibre player. I do enjoy the foreigner recognition though.
On January 10 2013 14:37 Whatson wrote: Totally undeserved Right now he's 1-5 in Proleague, and his only win came against Classic, and it wasn't even the ace match. I know he's the foreign hope blah blah blah but KeSPA could at least disguise this attempt to get more foreign viewers a little better.
Proleague is a real sports league.who has the authority to decide NBA season/month/week MVP?press group,not NBA.
In Proleague it's the same. Press group elected him,then he is. It's not KESPA's business.
On January 10 2013 14:37 Whatson wrote: Totally undeserved Right now he's 1-5 in Proleague, and his only win came against Classic, and it wasn't even the ace match. I know he's the foreign hope blah blah blah but KeSPA could at least disguise this attempt to get more foreign viewers a little better.
Proleague is a real sports league.who has the authority to decide NBA season/month/week MVP?press group,not NBA.
In Proleague it's the same. Press group elected him,then he is. It's not KESPA's business.
Since the article says that "reporters from all around" submitted their votes, I'd love to know who actually voted for Thorzain. And since you bring up the NBA
On January 10 2013 13:35 wptlzkwjd wrote: This is like Jordan carrying the Bulls into the championship game 6 and some random white player on his team scores the last 2 points to win it and getting MVP for the tournament just for winning the game and being white.
If Thorzain weren't the only white guy in Proleague, he would get zero recognition. Foreign bias at its finest right there.
That's nice and all, but I think it sounds more amazing than it actually is. Foreigners haven't played in Proleague for ages, of course there's opportunity to be the first foreigner to do such and such in Proleague. Not to take anything away from Thorzain, but the way a lot of these statements are made (I know this is just the translation) make it sound like so much more.
LOL thats so condescending towards foreigners. Dont get me wrong- I love thorzain but he went 1-3. How the hell does he deserve MVP? Taeja or JYP deserve it.
I wouldn't mind it if they gave ThorZain the biggest accomplishment award but MVP = Most Valuable Player...Is going 1-4 really the most valuable player on any team?
Not sure if this was the best decision by the voters to give an MVP award to someone who's won one game in the entire round. EG-TL was 3-4 in the first round btw. I mean there's guys like Stats, Wooki, Rain, Flash who are way more deserving but didn't get it because they're Korean. I think it would've been better to give ThorZain some kind of special award, like the Nestea award or something like that rather than sullying the MVP
One win and 3 loses does not make MVP status. It should have gone to Stats (5-0) or Rain (6-1 and 2-0ace). This reward is of no consequence, and foreigners should be pissed for being looked down upon.
Well done KeSPA, keep on cementing yourself as a joke organization. This is an insult!
On January 10 2013 15:23 kill619 wrote: How disrespectful would it be if he gave the award back? Surely Thorazine feels just a little bit patronized for only winning one game as a foreigner.
It's good for the team. I don't think EG would let him return the award.
On January 10 2013 15:23 kill619 wrote: How disrespectful would it be if he gave the award back? Surely Thorazine feels just a little bit patronized for only winning one game as a foreigner.
I think like Obama (remember, he got the Nobel Peace Prize just after he got elected), he just should accept it and say they'll work hard, etc.
I think it would be rude to reject it.
Plus it said the reporters voted for him, so KeSPA did not directly give him the reward.
On January 10 2013 15:39 Fyodor wrote: A symbolic award for a symbolic achievement.
I don't see a problem here.
Except it's not just a symbolic award.... It's an award that Dozens of other players deserved over him. If they gace him a trophy/award for being the first foreigner to win in PL after how many ever years then cool do that. But giving a rounds MVP award to a guy with 1 win is a fucking joke.
Lol thats pretty terrible. I was thinking it was MVP for foreinger or for EG-TL or something (still wouldn't make sense), but yeah, this is patronising as all hell.
In the end, ThorZaIN defeated Team 8's BaBy, EG-TL's Jaedong, and KT Rolster's Flash in the voting competition and grabbed the MVP title for round one.
It is MVP award, given arbitraly by voting. Not Most-Wins-Ratio-Award or Super-Awesome-Bonjwa-Award.
It was first foreigner win in PL after 7 years!! Thus, the voters thought that Thorzain should receive the award for this MILESTONE achievement, despite low win-ratio. Flash is better player than TZain, but Flash did only what Flash was expected to do. Remember that his All-Kill against EG-TL happened in Round 2.
The most memorable thing from Round 1 of PL after a year or so from now, won't be Rain win-streak, but the fact that in R1 was the first foreign victory after 7-years! Therefore comes the MVP award.
On January 10 2013 15:39 Fyodor wrote: A symbolic award for a symbolic achievement.
I don't see a problem here.
Except it's not just a symbolic award.... It's an award that Dozens of other players deserved over him. If they gace him a trophy/award for being the first foreigner to win in PL after how many ever years then cool do that. But giving a rounds MVP award to a guy with 1 win is a fucking joke.
I definitely agree that it is a bit ridiculous, but I think you are overreacting. It's clearly not a statistical award, or else they would not have needed to ask reporters what their opinion was. The fact that opinion was a factor on its own means that the symbolic value of the most valuable player must be considered. I don't even remember any previous "MVP of round x of Proleague" awards existing, nor can I find any now. Though if they do, I'd bet they are not just the best performer though.
Like I said, I can't find previous round MVP's, though if you know of the threads where they are mentioned, I'd love to see them.
When I saw the topic title I thought it was some parody post. Then it turned out to be really true. Wow talk about making the MVP award completely pointless. I like Thorzain a lot, but the MVP of round 1? Really? So basically Thorzain won the award for being a white guy playing SC2 in Korea. Grats on the pity award....I guess?
In the end, ThorZaIN defeated Team 8's BaBy, EG-TL's Jaedong, and KT Rolster's Flash in the voting competition and grabbed the MVP title for round one.
It is MVP award, given arbitraly by voting. Not Most-Wins-Ratio-Award or Super-Awesome-Bonjwa-Award.
It was first foreigner win in PL after 7 years!! Thus, the voters thought that Thorzain should receive the award for this MILESTONE achievement, despite low win-ratio. Flash is better player than TZain, but Flash did only what Flash was expected to do. Remember that his All-Kill against EG-TL happened in Round 2.
The most memorable thing from Round 1 of PL after a year or so from now, won't be Rain win-streak, but the fact that in R1 was the first foreign victory after 7-years! Therefore comes the MVP award.
You have a problem understanding the uproar. The vote in many people's eyes was a farce. We know how it works and once again let me remind you not to mix PL's because this is completely different. So drop the 7 year spiel. It was the first foreigner to win a SC2 PL game. The only reason Thorzain got the nod was because he's a foreigner. That's the only reason they voted for him and nothing more. It's a slap in the face of not just Thorzain but every other foreigner who wishes to compete in PL because they're knocking on foreigners. This isn't about Flash's all-kill in round 2 at all. Facepalm.
I'm going to requote Wax's response because it sums it up in one sentence:
On January 10 2013 15:05 Waxangel wrote: don't fucking patronize us
On January 10 2013 15:47 Ch3rry wrote: People here have a problem with reading stuff:
In the end, ThorZaIN defeated Team 8's BaBy, EG-TL's Jaedong, and KT Rolster's Flash in the voting competition and grabbed the MVP title for round one.
It is MVP award, given arbitraly by voting. Not Most-Wins-Ratio-Award or Super-Awesome-Bonjwa-Award.
It was first foreigner win in PL after 7 years!! Thus, the voters thought that Thorzain should receive the award for this MILESTONE achievement, despite low win-ratio. Flash is better player than TZain, but Flash did only what Flash was expected to do. Remember that his All-Kill against EG-TL happened in Round 2.
The most memorable thing from Round 1 of PL after a year or so from now, won't be Rain win-streak, but the fact that in R1 was the first foreign victory after 7-years! Therefore comes the MVP award.
You have a problem understanding the uproar. The vote in many people's eyes was a farce. We know how it works and once again let me remind you not to mix PL's because this is completely different. So drop the 7 year spiel. It was the first foreigner to win a SC2 PL game. The only reason Thorzain got the nod was because he's a foreigner. That's the only reason they voted for him and nothing more. It's a slap in the face of not just Thorzain but every other foreigner who wishes to compete in PL because they're knocking on foreigners. This isn't about Flash's all-kill in round 2 at all. Facepalm.
I agree with you, and I only wonder how ThorZain feels about it. I mean, I do respect his achievement...I'm just going to leave it at that. I'm glad he won a game, and I hope foreigners can continue to take games off of Koreans.
Eh that's hardly very significant at all. Maybe hypothetically in two years if Koreans have absolute domination over the scene once again and a foreigner takes a win it will be notable, but it isn't right now.
On January 10 2013 15:47 Ch3rry wrote: The most memorable thing from Round 1 of PL after a year or so from now, won't be Rain win-streak, but the fact that in R1 was the first foreign victory after 7-years! Therefore comes the MVP award.
I let myself drop the rest of your post. This parts sums it up and explains it best.
IMO, If, in time, we remember this season as "The foreign victory" then Thorzain is the Most Valuable Asset (Player) that Proleague had that season. He the one that most people will remember the season by.
I think this may be more of an insult than an award. Giving a foreigner such a prestigious award for winning 1 game (against Classic of all players) really shows their pity for foreigners in the Korean scene. I'm sure they meant well, and were only trying to give some encouragement to EGL, but it really gave the wrong message.
Grats to Thorzain! I still think Flash deserves a bit of spotlight after having the first all-kill against TL (it hurt to watch, and yet was awesome to watch...), but I can see how Thorzain earned it.
On January 10 2013 15:47 Ch3rry wrote: People here have a problem with reading stuff:
In the end, ThorZaIN defeated Team 8's BaBy, EG-TL's Jaedong, and KT Rolster's Flash in the voting competition and grabbed the MVP title for round one.
It is MVP award, given arbitraly by voting. Not Most-Wins-Ratio-Award or Super-Awesome-Bonjwa-Award.
It was first foreigner win in PL after 7 years!! Thus, the voters thought that Thorzain should receive the award for this MILESTONE achievement, despite low win-ratio. Flash is better player than TZain, but Flash did only what Flash was expected to do. Remember that his All-Kill against EG-TL happened in Round 2.
The most memorable thing from Round 1 of PL after a year or so from now, won't be Rain win-streak, but the fact that in R1 was the first foreign victory after 7-years! Therefore comes the MVP award.
We know how it works and once again let me remind you not to mix PL's because this is completely different. So drop the 7 year spiel.
You'll have to tell that to the Korean teams, e-sports journalists, casters, broadcasters, the maps...
It was the first foreigner to win a SC2 PL game.
That's true. Thorzain's win was the first foreigner SC2 win in Proleague. It also happened to be the first foreigner win in Proleague in 7 years.
In terms of raw results I think Flash should have been MVP. But his awesome, history re-making win against BaBy was pretty cool, too. People need to remember that there's like 7 more rounds of PL or something.
To be fair, a foreigner winning a game in proleague IS super valuable for any foreign team. This is a question of which player is the single most valuable player, not necessarily in terms of skill, but overall. I don't think anyone doubts how valuable a player ThorZaIN is to EG, and I know it's only because of EG-TL that I even really care about proleague this season.
It's quickly sounding like no-one is happy for Thorzain winning the award, or for Korean press for recognising foreign talent (the MVP is voted for by reporters, as it says in the OP). Lighten up
His achievement - be the first foreigner in 7 years to score a win in Proleague - is far more impressive than that of any other player that round. Well deserved.
Foreigners win games against koreans quite often, and SC2 proleague can't be compared to BW proleague. The whole "First foreigner since 2006" thing kind of ignores this fact. In fact, it cheapens the memory of BW and just how incredibly hard the professional scene in korea was.
On January 10 2013 17:17 figq wrote: His achievement - be the first foreigner in 7 years to score a win in Proleague - is far more impressive than that of any other player that round. Well deserved.
No it's not, because the only reason why it happened is because ITS A DIFFERENT GAME
It's not like thorzain accomplished something where all those other pros failed.. he accomplished something completely different, and much less notable. There are dozens of foreigners that could have accomplished the same given the opportunity, whereas in BW NOBODY could.
Funny how JD is in the list but not people who did better like Taeja or any number of players. Those were all by reputation.. Grats to Thorzain though!
On January 10 2013 17:17 figq wrote: His achievement - be the first foreigner in 7 years to score a win in Proleague - is far more impressive than that of any other player that round. Well deserved.
No it's not, because the only reason why it happened is because ITS A DIFFERENT GAME
It's not like thorzain accomplished something where all those other pros failed.. he accomplished something completely different, and much less notable. There are dozens of foreigners that could have accomplished the same given the opportunity, whereas in BW NOBODY could.
Ah, look, getting up there to the opportunity is part of the battle that he has already won in his career. Please don't undermine that.
Despite that, say what you want about the difference of the games - it's true, of course - but for Koreans, it's still like a miracle to see a foreigner beat them on their own turf, so they respect him a lot for that. And I respect them for being respectful.
kinda weird and awkward imo, i don't really know what they were hoping to accomplish with this, but i'm pretty sure most people will not be too happy about this (including myself). It also kinda takes away from future MVP title holders.
On January 10 2013 17:17 figq wrote: His achievement - be the first foreigner in 7 years to score a win in Proleague - is far more impressive than that of any other player that round. Well deserved.
Yeah, but this isn't a "most impressive achievement" award. It's the MVP.
That's nice. Two and a half years later Broodwar foreigners and Koreans are realizing what we've been yelling in their ear since sc2 release, mainly that Warcraft 3 players are not held back by some imaginary line that says some broodwar cultural thing that I can't even remember, something about if you're a korean something like that.
On January 10 2013 17:17 figq wrote: His achievement - be the first foreigner in 7 years to score a win in Proleague - is far more impressive than that of any other player that round. Well deserved.
Yeah, but this isn't a "most impressive achievement" award. It's the MVP.
There's also translation, so don't look for the most precise meaning; and this award has not always consistently represented the absolute best-performing player of the given period. It clearly takes other factors into account.
On January 10 2013 17:17 figq wrote: His achievement - be the first foreigner in 7 years to score a win in Proleague - is far more impressive than that of any other player that round. Well deserved.
Yeah, but this isn't a "most impressive achievement" award. It's the MVP.
There's also translation, so don't look for the most precise meaning; and this award has not always consistently represented the absolute best-performing player of the given period. It clearly takes other factors into account.
It's not the "absolute best-performing player of the given period" award either. I know that. It's the most valuable player award.
We all know Thorzain wasn't the absolute best-performing of all. Obviously. MVP is a bit more vague. But still.
This is like my sixth grade sewing teacher giving me an A because I was the only boy in the class. I couldn't knit a damn mitten, but I still got an A because I had a penis.
Anyways, why are people surprised? Yes, this is very condescending and destroys the meaning of MVP, but did you all forget who they gave the MVP to last season?
Was it:
Player A) 19-12 Player B) 19-6 Player C) 15-4 Player D) 18-11 and led his team to their first ever Proleague championship Player Jaedong) 15-15
They gave it to Jaedong.
These MVP awards are pretty meaningless when half the time they're given to a player with a good story instead of a player with good results.
On January 10 2013 17:56 Fionn wrote: This is like my sixth grade sewing teacher giving me an A because I was the only boy in the class. I couldn't knit a damn mitten, but I still got an A because I had a penis.
Anyways, why are people surprised? Yes, this is very condescending and destroys the meaning of MVP, but did you all forget who they gave the MVP to last season?
Was it:
Player A) 19-12 Player B) 19-6 Player C) 15-4 Player D) 18-11 and led his team to their first ever Proleague championship Player Jaedong) 15-15
They gave it to Jaedong.
These MVP awards are pretty meaningless when half the time they're given to a player with a good story instead of a player with good results.
B-b-b-but.... JD promotes fangirls. He's always the MVP D:
Congratulations Thorzain! Although you weren't the most impressive player from round 1 if we only look at the statistics, I don't think anyone can dismiss your achievement either. Being the first foreigner to win a Proleague match in over 7 years is a huge accomplishment.
On January 10 2013 17:56 Fionn wrote: This is like my sixth grade sewing teacher giving me an A because I was the only boy in the class. I couldn't knit a damn mitten, but I still got an A because I had a penis.
Anyways, why are people surprised? Yes, this is very condescending and destroys the meaning of MVP, but did you all forget who they gave the MVP to last season?
Was it:
Player A) 19-12 Player B) 19-6 Player C) 15-4 Player D) 18-11 and led his team to their first ever Proleague championship Player Jaedong) 15-15
They gave it to Jaedong.
These MVP awards are pretty meaningless when half the time they're given to a player with a good story instead of a player with good results.
Ahhh... that puts things in perspective.
IMO Maybe they should have added a "most memorable performance" award for each round instead. I don't think people will be this uncomfortable if he won that one.
I really think the talk of this being condescending is ridiculous.
If you think this is unfair and should have been awarded to someone with more positive results, that can totally make sense (although it is presumptuous to think you know better how to give an award, or what criteria should really be followed)
Saying that it is condescending makes no sense because what he did really is very meaningful and a first in a long time. Ever since this proleague season started people have been talking about why loads of the forreigners are better then loads of the Kespa players and why EG-TL getting dominated as hard as they have been, is the exception, but from the point of view of the league it is completely understandable imo. They have no reason to respect EG-TL as a better proleague team until they have done better in... proleague.
That's not to say they can't be a better team in other aspects but i think by now it's safe to just accept that in pro-league it is EG-TL and not the Kespa teams that have to "catch up"
Its funny how people throw hate so easy. And people talking about disrespect with all foreign players. But you forget that your "foreign" team is fielding almost only koreans. So if i was one of the voters, i would think the same way. "Even the foreign team isn´t fielding foreigners? So this Thorzain is a huge exception" Nobody talk about this topic eh? Foreign team = korean players
Even that i root against EGTL because of the excessive hype, congrats and well done TZ.
1-3 MVP ahahhah even Thorzain say that ! Some tabloid just want more view, close this thread it's a ridiculous article and an insult for other players.
How can foreigner taking a game in proleague can be considered important in SC2, Thorzain beat koreans every tournament. He didn't does well at all in proleague for now but I expect him to win more as he's really good.
On January 10 2013 18:05 lim1017 wrote: I don't like it.. they should have just created a special award for him rather then giving him something thats important
this pretty much.... MVP title just lost all the meaning.
To people comparing it with JD getting the MVP award when he was 15-15... this isn't even remotely similar. There was definitely logic behind JD getting it beyond trying to market it: after all, he did make a massive difference for his team, considering the circumstances arguably a bigger difference than what other players with their superior records did. Likewise someone like Speed or Jangbi would sort of make sense, but Thorzain (even though its obviously not a fault of his own) shouldn't have gotten it, lol.
What in the holiest of fucks. The first foreigner to win in 2768 days, and so he's honored for that GREAT accomplishment, and TL shits on him and Proleague. It's almost like people don't understand that history's been made. He broke an almost 8 year streak. This is a big deal for Proleague, so they honored it in the biggest way they could.
Also, you can't deny that this is probably a play to get us pumped and watching more of Proleague. Giving one of our favorite foreigners your top award isn't a bad way of getting people to tune in.
But seriously. Take the good and stop letting the bad turn you into generic SC2 shit-talkers. This is why people hate us. We can't take a good thing for what it is. A good thing. Instead, we shit on Thorzain and declare him unworthy of the award that Proleague obviously thought he was worthy of.
On January 10 2013 19:40 Mauldo wrote: What in the holiest of fucks. The first foreigner to win in 2768 days, and so he's honored for that GREAT accomplishment, and TL shits on him and Proleague. It's almost like people don't understand that history's been made. He broke an almost 8 year streak. This is a big deal for Proleague, so they honored it in the biggest way they could.
Maybe we can get the Olympics to start holding their 100m sprints underwater so we can be proud when a white guy wins that, too.
On January 10 2013 19:40 Mauldo wrote: What in the holiest of fucks. The first foreigner to win in 2768 days, and so he's honored for that GREAT accomplishment, and TL shits on him and Proleague. It's almost like people don't understand that history's been made. He broke an almost 8 year streak. This is a big deal for Proleague, so they honored it in the biggest way they could.
Maybe we can get the Olympics to start holding their 100m sprints underwater so we can be proud when a white guy wins that, too.
that makes no sense. More like we should commemorate the day that a white guy wins the 100m sprint, because it would be memorable...
On January 10 2013 19:40 Mauldo wrote: What in the holiest of fucks. The first foreigner to win in 2768 days, and so he's honored for that GREAT accomplishment, and TL shits on him and Proleague. It's almost like people don't understand that history's been made. He broke an almost 8 year streak. This is a big deal for Proleague, so they honored it in the biggest way they could.
Maybe we can get the Olympics to start holding their 100m sprints underwater so we can be proud when a white guy wins that, too.
that makes no sense. More like we should commemorate the day that a white guy wins the 100m sprint, because it would be memorable...
It makes sense actually. His point was the 2768 days argument should not be used since its not the same game in the same sense that running underwater is not the same as normal so you cannot simply use it.
Korean culture is weird in those aspects. A good way for this award to never be taken seriously again. I would feel pretty stupid if I got the award that way.
Sounds more like "I don't want to show any pride in the achievements of foreigners in SC2, i would rather belittle them at every opportunity, so that someone somewhere on the internet will be impressed by me"
On January 10 2013 19:40 Mauldo wrote: What in the holiest of fucks. The first foreigner to win in 2768 days, and so he's honored for that GREAT accomplishment, and TL shits on him and Proleague. It's almost like people don't understand that history's been made. He broke an almost 8 year streak. This is a big deal for Proleague, so they honored it in the biggest way they could.
Also, you can't deny that this is probably a play to get us pumped and watching more of Proleague. Giving one of our favorite foreigners your top award isn't a bad way of getting people to tune in.
But seriously. Take the good and stop letting the bad turn you into generic SC2 shit-talkers. This is why people hate us. We can't take a good thing for what it is. A good thing. Instead, we shit on Thorzain and declare him unworthy of the award that Proleague obviously thought he was worthy of.
This is really, really sad guys.
It would have been a amazing accomplishment if a foreigner would have won a match in BW Proleague, the fact of the matter is that it's not in SC2. There is a big difference between a foreigner winning in BW Proleague and SC2 Proleague.
On January 10 2013 19:59 Jockmcplop wrote: Sounds more like "I don't want to show any pride in the achievements of foreigners in SC2, i would rather belittle them at every opportunity, so that someone somewhere on the internet will be impressed by me"
Why would you show pride for winning one game in SC2? CombatEX took a game off Parting for god's sake.
Can't help but feel it's like a consolation prize. So many more valuable players in this round, but he gets it because he's a "pety" foreigner. I do agree that first foreigner over kespa pro win in Proleague is a huge deal, but is it worth an MVP position for entire round with a 1-3 score? Definitely not. Nice gesture from Kespa tho.
On January 10 2013 19:59 Jockmcplop wrote: Sounds more like "I don't want to show any pride in the achievements of foreigners in SC2, i would rather belittle them at every opportunity, so that someone somewhere on the internet will be impressed by me"
Why would you show pride for winning one game in SC2? CombatEX took a game off Parting for god's sake.
Because it is what it represents. Proleague, whether SC2 or BW has always been completely dominated by Koreans, to the point where you wouldn't think foreigners even play Starcraft competitively. For a foreigner to win represents a big breakthrough, and this award cements that this is a breakthrough that both foreigners and Koreans want to happen. So what if he wasn't literally the best player there? The point is that the award represents a particular milestone. Its not that hard to understand...
On January 10 2013 19:59 Jockmcplop wrote: Sounds more like "I don't want to show any pride in the achievements of foreigners in SC2, i would rather belittle them at every opportunity, so that someone somewhere on the internet will be impressed by me"
Why would you show pride for winning one game in SC2? CombatEX took a game off Parting for god's sake.
And i was fucking proud of him for doing so. He is a true champion.
On January 10 2013 19:40 Mauldo wrote: What in the holiest of fucks. The first foreigner to win in 2768 days, and so he's honored for that GREAT accomplishment, and TL shits on him and Proleague. It's almost like people don't understand that history's been made. He broke an almost 8 year streak. This is a big deal for Proleague, so they honored it in the biggest way they could.
Also, you can't deny that this is probably a play to get us pumped and watching more of Proleague. Giving one of our favorite foreigners your top award isn't a bad way of getting people to tune in.
But seriously. Take the good and stop letting the bad turn you into generic SC2 shit-talkers. This is why people hate us. We can't take a good thing for what it is. A good thing. Instead, we shit on Thorzain and declare him unworthy of the award that Proleague obviously thought he was worthy of.
This is really, really sad guys.
It would have been a amazing accomplishment if a foreigner would have won a match in BW Proleague, the fact of the matter is that it's not in SC2. There is a big difference between a foreigner winning in BW Proleague and SC2 Proleague.
You talking nonsense. SC2 Proleague is a direct succesor to BW Proleague.
ThorZain had the best foreign performance in 7 years. This MVP award was given for that one and only game when TZ wins.
And Rain? He performed very good, that is a fact. But I really doubt that in the future we will be talking about his performance in first round of PL.
Like it or not, that one simple ThorZain win was the history in the making!
On January 10 2013 19:59 Jockmcplop wrote: Sounds more like "I don't want to show any pride in the achievements of foreigners in SC2, i would rather belittle them at every opportunity, so that someone somewhere on the internet will be impressed by me"
Why would you show pride for winning one game in SC2? CombatEX took a game off Parting for god's sake.
Because it is what it represents. Proleague, whether SC2 or BW has always been completely dominated by Koreans, to the point where you wouldn't think foreigners even play Starcraft competitively. For a foreigner to win represents a big breakthrough, and this award cements that this is a breakthrough that both foreigners and Koreans want to happen. So what if he wasn't literally the best player there? The point is that the award represents a particular milestone. Its not that hard to understand...
But it's not any kind of a special milestone. Whether you like it or not, SC2 is not BW, it makes absolutely no sense to look at it as if it's the same thing. A foreigner winning in BW Proleague would be incredibly special because of how rare it was for a foreigner to win against a Korean pro. It was special because even the B-team practice partners of Korean pro teams were better than anyone in the foreign scene. SC2 is not the same game, the difference between Korean and foreign players isn't as big as it was in BW, foreigners winning against Koreans isn't nearly as big of a deal - if you respect the accomplishments of the foreign scene, you should be happy about that, and accept that it's not a big deal instead of trying to make some kind of a celebration out of it. By saying that Thorzain getting a single win in PL is 'special', you're pretty much going against what you want to believe yourself.
Also, MVP is not a 'breakthrough award' or 'special event' award...
On January 10 2013 19:40 Mauldo wrote: What in the holiest of fucks. The first foreigner to win in 2768 days, and so he's honored for that GREAT accomplishment, and TL shits on him and Proleague. It's almost like people don't understand that history's been made. He broke an almost 8 year streak. This is a big deal for Proleague, so they honored it in the biggest way they could.
Also, you can't deny that this is probably a play to get us pumped and watching more of Proleague. Giving one of our favorite foreigners your top award isn't a bad way of getting people to tune in.
But seriously. Take the good and stop letting the bad turn you into generic SC2 shit-talkers. This is why people hate us. We can't take a good thing for what it is. A good thing. Instead, we shit on Thorzain and declare him unworthy of the award that Proleague obviously thought he was worthy of.
This is really, really sad guys.
It would have been a amazing accomplishment if a foreigner would have won a match in BW Proleague, the fact of the matter is that it's not in SC2. There is a big difference between a foreigner winning in BW Proleague and SC2 Proleague.
Obviously not for the Koreans, as they voted The Blue Eyed Warrior as Mvp. I don't see why people are getting so worked up over it though, lol.
On January 10 2013 19:40 Mauldo wrote: What in the holiest of fucks. The first foreigner to win in 2768 days, and so he's honored for that GREAT accomplishment, and TL shits on him and Proleague. It's almost like people don't understand that history's been made. He broke an almost 8 year streak. This is a big deal for Proleague, so they honored it in the biggest way they could.
Also, you can't deny that this is probably a play to get us pumped and watching more of Proleague. Giving one of our favorite foreigners your top award isn't a bad way of getting people to tune in.
But seriously. Take the good and stop letting the bad turn you into generic SC2 shit-talkers. This is why people hate us. We can't take a good thing for what it is. A good thing. Instead, we shit on Thorzain and declare him unworthy of the award that Proleague obviously thought he was worthy of.
This is really, really sad guys.
It would have been a amazing accomplishment if a foreigner would have won a match in BW Proleague, the fact of the matter is that it's not in SC2. There is a big difference between a foreigner winning in BW Proleague and SC2 Proleague.
Obviously not for the Koreans, as they voted The Blue Eyed Warrior as Mvp. I don't see why people are getting so worked up over it though, lol.
Because TL has become a competition to see who can be the most cynical.
On January 10 2013 19:59 Jockmcplop wrote: Sounds more like "I don't want to show any pride in the achievements of foreigners in SC2, i would rather belittle them at every opportunity, so that someone somewhere on the internet will be impressed by me"
Why would you show pride for winning one game in SC2? CombatEX took a game off Parting for god's sake.
Because it is what it represents. Proleague, whether SC2 or BW has always been completely dominated by Koreans, to the point where you wouldn't think foreigners even play Starcraft competitively. For a foreigner to win represents a big breakthrough, and this award cements that this is a breakthrough that both foreigners and Koreans want to happen. So what if he wasn't literally the best player there? The point is that the award represents a particular milestone. Its not that hard to understand...
But it's not any kind of a special milestone. Whether you like it or not, SC2 is not BW, it makes absolutely no sense to look at it as if it's the same thing. A foreigner winning in BW Proleague would be incredibly special because of how rare it was for a foreigner to win against a Korean pro. It was special because even the B-team practice partners of Korean pro teams were better than anyone in the foreign scene. SC2 is not the same game, the difference between Korean and foreign players isn't as big as it was in BW, foreigners winning against Koreans isn't nearly as big of a deal - if you respect the accomplishments of the foreign scene, you should be happy about that, and accept that it's not a big deal instead of trying to make some kind of a celebration out of it. By saying that Thorzain getting a single win in PL is 'special', you're pretty much going against what you want to believe yourself.
Also, MVP is not a 'breakthrough award' or 'special event' award...
OK then... You win. I'm conflicted and confused, and Thorzain deserves nothing. Enjoy it, my friend
after read these 12 pages comment,I think maybe some misunderstanding happened here.
May I ask an important question guys?
Is this your virginal article about "MVP" in Proleague?
and u assumed it must be Most Valuable Player?
u made me laughed. I thought Teamliquid is biggest foreign site about BW ,some general knowledge widely known,I found I'm wrong.
Kespa has very official prizes at the ends of year,such as the best player,the best P/T/Z player,etc.strictly chosen by ability,win rate,titles,and something else can surely proof them the best players in proleague.
so in the middle of season,they do not need so serious."MVP"is not only focus on players' ability, "Memory-Valuable"players got them generally. Jaedong got one by "Drone Wall",and got another by tears.
this is why u guys so serious about this. but nothing strange to me.
welcome to proleage,both foreign players and u foreign viewers.
I think people are just getting their panties in a twist too much. It's not like Thorzain nominated himself for MVP and won in some sort of popularity contest online vote. Sure, he wasn't the strongest player by any means (by far, even) but it's probably far more memorable than anything else that happened in the first round. Not to sound jaded or anything, but Flash rolled face in Proleague and this is news to absolutely no one.
In addition there's the other smaller things; he's pretty modest, he tried out some Korean during his postgame interview, and he seems like a likeable guy. Since the award seems like it's just some sort of informal thing voted on by a couple of Korean guys, they probably just went with the one who made the strongest impression. It's not like being the MVP for the first round of Proleague is either some subtle backhanded insult by Korean sports writers or a vast conspiracy to nominate a foreigner to inflate stream views. It seems much more likely that a foreigner winning a Proleague match is much more "news" than the guys they've known for a long time crushing nerds as usual. Hence, the award.
This is no different from Obama winning the Nobel Peace Prize. Thorzain didn't ask for it but got it shoved down his throat, and Broodwar elitists are going to flame Thorzain for no reason whether he accepts or rejects the award.
On January 10 2013 20:39 ppshchik wrote: This is no different from Obama winning the Nobel Peace Prize. Thorzain didn't ask for it but got it shoved down his throat, and Broodwar elitists are going to flame Thorzain for no reason whether he accepts or rejects the award.
Nope, I think this is stupid (1-3 MVP?) but it is hardly Thorzain's fault.
On January 10 2013 20:19 starfinder wrote: Kespa has very official prizes at the ends of year,such as the best player,the best P/T/Z player,etc.strictly chosen by ability,win rate,titles,and something else can surely proof them the best players in proleague.
so in the middle of season,they do not need so serious."MVP"is not only focus on players' ability, "Memory-Valuable"players got them generally. Jaedong got one by "Drone Wall",and got another by tears.
this is why u guys so serious about this. but nothing strange to me.
welcome to proleage,both foreign players and u foreign viewers.
If this guy knows what he is talking about, then this makes complete sense imo
On January 10 2013 20:19 starfinder wrote: after read these 12 pages comment,I think maybe some misunderstanding happened here.
May I ask an important question guys?
Is this your virginal article about "MVP" in Proleague?
and u assumed it must be Most Valuable Player?
u made me laughed. I thought Teamliquid is biggest foreign site about BW ,some general knowledge widely known,I found I'm wrong.
Kespa has very official prizes at the ends of year,such as the best player,the best P/T/Z player,etc.strictly chosen by ability,win rate,titles,and something else can surely proof them the best players in proleague.
so in the middle of season,they do not need so serious."MVP"is not only focus on players' ability, "Memory-Valuable"players got them generally. Jaedong got one by "Drone Wall",and got another by tears.
this is why u guys so serious about this. but nothing strange to me.
welcome to proleage,both foreign players and u foreign viewers.
Yes, you are right (apart from the difficult to read English).
People overreact, not knowing at all what Kespa uses these short-period "MVP" awards for. It's just a very different type of award from what most people here expect.
On January 10 2013 17:08 EG.Thorzain wrote: I don't really know how i was elected MVP, 1-3 stats in round 1. >______________< Thx tho
looooool
I agree though, just cause it was a foreigner win, the difference in level between the kespa players and foreigners isn't as great as it was back then!
I feel like this shouldn't be called "MVP" 'cause that would usually mean a player who helped his team the most. Perhaps PotM = Player of the Month, which doesn't sound so results based to me
I think this is a result of BW. In that game Foreigners found it much harder to beat Korean pros and so it happened a lot less frequently. In SC2 it is not unusual to see Foreigners take a map from a Korean.
On January 10 2013 17:08 EG.Thorzain wrote: I don't really know how i was elected MVP, 1-3 stats in round 1. >______________< Thx tho
lol, gotta love Thorzain. As he said, not the most logical thing in the world but still gratz, it's cool to know he gets some recognition over there. Also, I love the nickname he's been given, go go blue-eyed warrior!!
Woo! You deserved it T-Funk! All the players had pass reputations in Proleague while many players didn't expect much from you, you managed to prove that you could win. Congrats!
While it's cool that they acknowledge Thorzains foreigner performance they should have kept that for the future, when foreigners will kill koreans on a regular basis.
So now Thorzain is the Blue Eyed Warrior Spoon Terran? I am proud of him for doing so well, but also think it shows something about his character that he brings up his record as well. Rather humble of him.
On January 10 2013 21:43 SgtCoDFish wrote: I feel like this shouldn't be called "MVP" 'cause that would usually mean a player who helped his team the most. Perhaps PotM = Player of the Month, which doesn't sound so results based to me
^THIS
Giving him the MVP award is simply stupid. There are so, so many players that did better in Round one that result disgusting.
It's not that he deserve (or not) an award, simply he doesn't deserve this one in particular.
I laughed at lot when I saw Thorzain's quote at the end. Although I do believe Flash is the true MVP of Round 1, what Thorzain had accomplished is enough grounds for him to be a candidate for the MVP election.
On January 10 2013 20:19 starfinder wrote: after read these 12 pages comment,I think maybe some misunderstanding happened here.
May I ask an important question guys?
Is this your virginal article about "MVP" in Proleague?
and u assumed it must be Most Valuable Player?
u made me laughed. I thought Teamliquid is biggest foreign site about BW ,some general knowledge widely known,I found I'm wrong.
Kespa has very official prizes at the ends of year,such as the best player,the best P/T/Z player,etc.strictly chosen by ability,win rate,titles,and something else can surely proof them the best players in proleague.
so in the middle of season,they do not need so serious."MVP"is not only focus on players' ability, "Memory-Valuable"players got them generally. Jaedong got one by "Drone Wall",and got another by tears.
this is why u guys so serious about this. but nothing strange to me.
welcome to proleage,both foreign players and u foreign viewers.
^
He's still fighting it lol. We're laughing at you and I'll have you know I've been following BW since the beginning so you don't have to lecture people like me or several other veterans who have posted stating how stupid the vote was. It goes back to foreigners being exotic and the voters totally writing off the foreigners because they're still living in the past when the foreigners have shown plenty of times (even in Korean GSTL/GSL) that they know how to play, hence the circus and laughter. Stop being so defensive about it. We know this isn't some big award like the weekly MVP so give it a rest.
I think it's ridiculous towards the Korean players... need to start seeing the best players and not where some1 is from... which doesn't matter at all in esports imo.
On January 10 2013 20:19 starfinder wrote: after read these 12 pages comment,I think maybe some misunderstanding happened here.
May I ask an important question guys?
Is this your virginal article about "MVP" in Proleague?
and u assumed it must be Most Valuable Player?
u made me laughed. I thought Teamliquid is biggest foreign site about BW ,some general knowledge widely known,I found I'm wrong.
Kespa has very official prizes at the ends of year,such as the best player,the best P/T/Z player,etc.strictly chosen by ability,win rate,titles,and something else can surely proof them the best players in proleague.
so in the middle of season,they do not need so serious."MVP"is not only focus on players' ability, "Memory-Valuable"players got them generally. Jaedong got one by "Drone Wall",and got another by tears.
this is why u guys so serious about this. but nothing strange to me.
welcome to proleage,both foreign players and u foreign viewers.
What a painful read, step up your english bro oO. You're also being pretty agressive and patronizing, and act like a veteran when you've been registered to TL for less than a year. gtfo already plz
On January 10 2013 20:19 starfinder wrote: after read these 12 pages comment,I think maybe some misunderstanding happened here.
May I ask an important question guys?
Is this your virginal article about "MVP" in Proleague?
and u assumed it must be Most Valuable Player?
u made me laughed. I thought Teamliquid is biggest foreign site about BW ,some general knowledge widely known,I found I'm wrong.
Kespa has very official prizes at the ends of year,such as the best player,the best P/T/Z player,etc.strictly chosen by ability,win rate,titles,and something else can surely proof them the best players in proleague.
so in the middle of season,they do not need so serious."MVP"is not only focus on players' ability, "Memory-Valuable"players got them generally. Jaedong got one by "Drone Wall",and got another by tears.
this is why u guys so serious about this. but nothing strange to me.
welcome to proleage,both foreign players and u foreign viewers.
^
He's still fighting it lol. We're laughing at you and I'll have you know I've been following BW since the beginning so you don't have to lecture people like me or several other veterans who have posted stating how stupid the vote was. It goes back to foreigners being exotic and the voters totally writing off the foreigners because they're still living in the past when the foreigners have shown plenty of times (even in Korean GSTL/GSL) that they know how to play, hence the circus and laughter. Stop being so defensive about it. We know this isn't some big award like the weekly MVP so give it a rest.
On January 11 2013 00:40 Bumblebee wrote: No offense towards ThorZaIN, but this is just silly..
I think we might not be taking this the right way. The point is the achievement for PL, that a foreigner WON, something that was previously thought as ridiculous. Now, the 1-3 record may not be striking, but the fact that he won is striking. That said, I don't think they should have given him a nickname since that is for the OSL, and I don't know if MVP was the right award to give. EDIT: apparently Starstruck has enlightened me, I thought this MVP was a big award, apparently this is a big joke :<.
Am i the only one seeing this as a slap to the foreign sc2 base? Becausr he won one game vs classic of all people; and ends up with a 1-3 record merits mvp? Seriously?? He deserves MVP over stats, soulkey, rain? Wonder what happens if satouri pulls off a 50% winrate which is quite probable in winner league. Probably end up being labelled as thr greatest thing in the world since sliced bread.
On January 11 2013 01:36 LighT. wrote: Am i the only one seeing this as a slap to the foreign sc2 base? Becausr he won one game vs classic of all people; and ends up with a 1-3 record merits mvp? Seriously?? He deserves MVP over stats, soulkey, rain? Wonder what happens if satouri pulls off a 50% winrate which is quite probable in winner league. Probably end up being labelled as thr greatest thing in the world since sliced bread.
This is a publicity stunt if anything
You don´t get the MVP award for good play. Different culture different meaning of MVP. This award has nothing to do with your skill
On January 11 2013 01:36 LighT. wrote: Am i the only one seeing this as a slap to the foreign sc2 base? Becausr he won one game vs classic of all people; and ends up with a 1-3 record merits mvp? Seriously?? He deserves MVP over stats, soulkey, rain? Wonder what happens if satouri pulls off a 50% winrate which is quite probable in winner league. Probably end up being labelled as thr greatest thing in the world since sliced bread.
This is a publicity stunt if anything
Seems like Kespa agrees with the majority of foreigners: White dude wins a game - greatest thing ever. Just look at Goms seeding system. Special treatment for foreigners is sad, but that's just how it seems to work in SC2.
On January 11 2013 01:36 LighT. wrote: Am i the only one seeing this as a slap to the foreign sc2 base? Becausr he won one game vs classic of all people; and ends up with a 1-3 record merits mvp? Seriously?? He deserves MVP over stats, soulkey, rain? Wonder what happens if satouri pulls off a 50% winrate which is quite probable in winner league. Probably end up being labelled as thr greatest thing in the world since sliced bread.
This is a publicity stunt if anything
Seems like Kespa agrees with the majority of foreigners: White dude wins a game - greatest thing ever. Just look at Goms seeding system. Special treatment for foreigners is sad, but that's just how it seems to work in SC2.
GOM also seeded Kespa players and Korean players who did well in foreign events (MLG exchange). OSL seeded eSF players... Etc etc
Proleague sure knows how to hype their league for foreign fans, too bad they still have less than good commentating and no real production for foreign viewers.
I dont think he deserve it. Giving a foreigner the MVP for 1-3 like its some achievement. Like they expected him to go 0-4. Its more like an insult than award. Clearly looking down on foreigners
On January 11 2013 01:36 LighT. wrote: Am i the only one seeing this as a slap to the foreign sc2 base? Becausr he won one game vs classic of all people; and ends up with a 1-3 record merits mvp? Seriously?? He deserves MVP over stats, soulkey, rain? Wonder what happens if satouri pulls off a 50% winrate which is quite probable in winner league. Probably end up being labelled as thr greatest thing in the world since sliced bread.
This is a publicity stunt if anything
Seems like Kespa agrees with the majority of foreigners: White dude wins a game - greatest thing ever. Just look at Goms seeding system. Special treatment for foreigners is sad, but that's just how it seems to work in SC2.
GOM also seeded Kespa players and Korean players who did well in foreign events (MLG exchange). OSL seeded eSF players... Etc etc
I am talking mostly about the seeds this year. Idra, Grubby and Huk(several times) were purely publicty, while the Kespa-Gom 'exchange' did atleast contribute to a somewhat united Korean scene. OSL without Esf-players and GSL without Kespa players would have been terrible.
On January 10 2013 14:26 freeshooter wrote: MVP for winning one game?
2010-2011,a proleague player very probable to grabs week MVP just by a win from defeated KT_Flash the God. no mattler how many he lost. Win rate never the only standard on week or round Mvp in proleague.
lol This guy is still trying to defend it. Yeah, he got the MVP for breaking Flash's streak. Much different than beating Classic lmao.
congrats Thorzain! Alot of people seem very mad about this for some reason and are working on the latest conspiracy theory. Why not just be happy for Thorzain and hope this gives him more confidence and makes him a even better player.
On January 11 2013 03:00 Fjodorov wrote: congrats Thorzain! Alot of people seem very mad about this for some reason and are working on the latest conspiracy theory. Why not just be happy for Thorzain and hope this gives him more confidence and makes him a even better player.
well, if you read thorzains quote, dunno how much confidence this will give him
On January 11 2013 01:36 LighT. wrote: Am i the only one seeing this as a slap to the foreign sc2 base? Becausr he won one game vs classic of all people; and ends up with a 1-3 record merits mvp? Seriously?? He deserves MVP over stats, soulkey, rain? Wonder what happens if satouri pulls off a 50% winrate which is quite probable in winner league. Probably end up being labelled as thr greatest thing in the world since sliced bread.
On January 11 2013 01:36 LighT. wrote: Am i the only one seeing this as a slap to the foreign sc2 base? Becausr he won one game vs classic of all people; and ends up with a 1-3 record merits mvp? Seriously?? He deserves MVP over stats, soulkey, rain? Wonder what happens if satouri pulls off a 50% winrate which is quite probable in winner league. Probably end up being labelled as thr greatest thing in the world since sliced bread.
This is a publicity stunt if anything
Seems like Kespa agrees with the majority of foreigners: White dude wins a game - greatest thing ever. Just look at Goms seeding system. Special treatment for foreigners is sad, but that's just how it seems to work in SC2.
There is a huge difference between naming a foreigner MVP for one win, and getting a Code S seed for good international showing (especially these days, when Koreans are going abroad to compete).
The latter is like Gom saying, "you've been doing great elsewhere, now we'll give you a chance to prove it in Code S." The former is the equivalent of the Koreans clapping really excitedly for a dog that managed to learn a command like "sit".
It's still special treatment of course, but the magnitude does make a difference.
What a joke, my mvp is Flash... I'm starting to really hate foreigner bias, like first tournaments drop in viewers when the last foreigner is out (like wtf thats when the games start to be good) and now even kespa shows such huge foreigner bias. I miss the days when being on the b team of a korean team made you the best foreigner...
In sports, a Most Valuable Player (MVP) award is an honor typically bestowed upon the best-performing player or players on a specific team, in an entire league, or for a particular contest or series of contests.
While I think it's acceptable that Thorzain's achievement merits to be noticed and honored, they gave him the wrong trophy.
Rather stupid, I must say. Some silly statistical fact isn't a valid excuse to give someone MVP award for a single game (losing every other game)... I want good games. I could care less whether they are Korean or not.
On January 11 2013 03:24 Moka wrote: MVP: Most Valuable Player,
In sports, a Most Valuable Player (MVP) award is an honor typically bestowed upon the best-performing player or players on a specific team, in an entire league, or for a particular contest or series of contests.
While I think it's acceptable that Thorzain's achievement merits to be noticed and honored, they gave him the wrong trophy.
But SC2 isn't sports. Heh. Valuable also has multiple connotations.
Good for him, hope it gives him some momentum trying to prove he can do much more. Maybe the name of the thing doesn't quite match up with the numbers, but so what. Use what you get.
Ehhh, I don't agree, a 25% WLR with only a win against Classic just seems like a PR stunt to me. Just because he is the first foreigner to win in PL in years does not put him in the running for MVP against people with WLR higher than 50% at least. I understand ThorZaIN is a huge part of the foreign scene, but one win does not equal a MVP.
So they give him the MVP for winning the first game as a foreigner in proleague for ages...IN A TOTAL DIFFERENT GAME. lol Koreans are nowhere near to dominating the scene as they did in bw. The proleague players also switched relativly recent. No comment.
Congrats. Though one could argue he doesn't deserve it, I'm glad they gave it to him.
It was always ambiguous to me how kespa (staff and korean followers alike) viewed foreigners, especially because of the horrible english stream, but I know now that they respect them and welcome the international scene, and I think that's their way of saying it. It's nice.
I love the condescending award. Especially considering its celebrating a foreigner>kespa win. There have been quite a few of foreigner>GOM player wins, and so far kespa players have been struggling in GOM leagues. Foreigners have been overrated for a long time, but kespa players shouldnt make the mistake of thinking they are the best, or that they are lumped in with the GOM players as "team korea"
On January 11 2013 09:12 IdrA wrote: thats fuckin racist
On January 11 2013 09:13 IdrA wrote: thanks for the pat on the head kespa. makes all the white guys happy.
I suppose so, just because ThorZaIN is a foreigner he does get a little special treatment. I'm pretty sure this was more of an informal award than a serious one, but nevertheless, there were better people who deserved it. I just hope you get the next one Greg.
Noo, this isn't good at all. I would rather see the actual most valuble player recieve it so that the MVP title actually brings pride. Now it's just a joke. I love ThorZain, he's my favorite player since Jinro retiered. But he's not MVP and everyone knows it.
Jaedong won MVP for hilariously almost losing to Flying because of an idiotic mistake. This is not a meaningful award, and it's implications aren't much. Please stop overreacting.
On January 11 2013 15:10 MountainDewJunkie wrote: Jaedong won MVP for hilariously almost losing to Flying because of an idiotic mistake. This is not a meaningful award, and it's implications aren't much. Please stop overreacting.
Racist as it may be :O
You should remind, that in the mentioned game Jaedong fought with half of his army for a good amount of time and he still looked good. :uglyface:
On January 11 2013 18:03 Mohdoo wrote: I think its kinda sad/cute how Korea has such deeply entrenched racism that they don't even see things like this as condescending.
It's not a serious award. If any of you watched the Gom Awards Ceremony you would know these things are about as credible as the Oscars.
They do have problems with racism, but this isn't indicative of that. It's just a random award that they give away for really dumb reasons.
On January 11 2013 19:09 myzael wrote: So, by that logic, the best foreigner in the round wins a MVP award?
Congrats to ThorZaIN I guess...
This time was special, because (by extending "proleague" to its BW history) there have been 7.5 years without a foreigner could take an official game from Koreans. Yes, in SC2 things are different, but proleague has its own history. Combined with these MVP awards by Kespa given more for story than for score, it's a completely normal choice for them.
Feels like a painfully obvious publicity thing unless he played really, really well in the games he lost (haven't been following PL).
Don't get me wrong, he's a great player but given that even ThorZaIN himself is confused over why he's been given it for this particular competition...yeah. Feels pretty condescending.
Given IdrA's comment two pages ago it'd have been pretty amusing if they'd just straight up given it to him. Would love to read his acceptance comments.
EPT
EG.ThorZaINRC![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Ja1ba.jpg)
Legionnaire won against 
