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On December 08 2012 02:57 felisconcolori wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2012 02:39 Doodsmack wrote:
So many people with poor reading comprehension in this world. Get it through your skulls that DoA claimed the OGN-Kespa negotiation regarding an English cast had fallen through, and all but blamed Kespa for it. Kespa now reveals that negotiations were merely extended, AND ARE STILL ONGOING AS DOA HIMSELF NOW SAYS IN HIS CORRECTION WHERE HE ADMITS HE MISUNDERSTOOD. Therefore DoA gave incorrect information.
I'm sure the same people theorizing that Kespa is throwing DoA under the bus in order to cover up for its own mistake are the same ones who claimed yesterday that MLG had conspired with Kespa to push OGN out and secure the English cast for MLG. In some people's minds big companies are always guilty until proven innocent, even if there's no concrete evidence to go on - only a theoretical possibility. Just please understand that it doesn't do this community any good. Please learn to understand - KeSPA is not a big company. It's an official organ of the Ministry of Culture, Sports, and Tourism. Technically speaking, an NGO. It is not organized for efficiency. The official organization chart indicates that the actual gaming and organization of gaming is the smallest part of its functions, whereas the largest are marketing and legal. OGN is not producing English broadcast for Proleague, in part because negotiations are being "extended" according to KeSPA. (KeSPA is likewise a single source, able to shade language and shape a statement to its own purposes.) Those negotiations, according to KeSPA, ARE NOT FOR ENGLISH BROADCASTS. Reading comprehension ftw. Those negotiations are for the formation of a consortium between KeSPA, IEG, and OGN, for the specific purposes stated in the KeSPA statement. There are still disagreements, thus the negotiations are extended. Until there is a finalized agreement, OGN has indicated they will not produce English broadcasts for PL. This is OGN exerting pressure on KeSPA/IEG during the negotiation process. Why, we don't know. Maybe IEG is balking, or maybe it's KeSPA, or maybe someone is asking too much of OGN. We don't know. ... but historically, I'm thinking that KeSPA is saying "This is how it will happen" and one or both of the other organizations are disagreeing over one or more items. So KeSPA says negotiations are extended - they are still talking to each other, someone trying to convince someone else that something is good for everything. We don't know who, what or where. But the consequence is OGN is not doing the PL English casts. Who told the foreign community this (with some emotional bias) was DoA - and only after that does the MLG doing English for PL come up. And that was what... the same week as the opening match?? Surely, MLG was in talks for months to do this. Which is why we heard about it this week. TRANSPARENCY. Or hell, information. Getting it nailed down in advance, announcing things like this, it's good. We like information. It's our friends.
1) you're nitpicking re Kespa being a NGO. The people concocting conspiracy theories are treating Kespa as big organization in the same way they treat MlG as a big organization - guilty until proven innocent. My point stands.
2) the three way consortium talks are for the specific purpose of international broadcast services. English casting is a central part of that. So yeah, you completely misunderstood that portion of the op if you dont think the talks were concerning english casting. Also, see how you admit negotiations are ongoing? That means DoA was incorrect in claiming negotiations broke down, thus the entire point I was making still stands. For you to go on about the negotiations when you think you're refuting my argument just demonstrates that you didnt understand the point of my argument.
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On December 08 2012 03:39 kc2siq wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2012 03:26 ZerglingTwins wrote:On December 08 2012 02:48 kc2siq wrote:
Serious question, did DoA sign an NDA?
B/c whether or not he can be held responsible seems to be dependent on any confidentiality terms and agreements. If he didn't sign one then that's bad business sense by an organization like KESPA and OGN. ..... Do you know anything about working for other people? There are plenty of reasons to fire people, or no reason at all. NDA is a serious issue, that's the reason to sue people, fire and sue are completely different. If you get sued by employer, you are surely already fired. Let alone, this is just a criticize from KeSPA, and OGN certainly is not happy with DoA's post also. Yes sir, I've worked full time in a large company for almost a year and have had internship experience in research and middle market firms where I've had to sign such agreements. Of course, I also know that when someone goes to the press, suing and firing is a matter of PR. Also, please calm down. I don't mean to be offensive, that was a serious question. I wasn't insinuating something and I was really asking. I can understand if you feel like I'm stupid and I'll apologize for being stupid if you calmly illustrate your points so I can better learn and improve myself and sound smarter when I discuss NDAs. Thanks in advance if you decide to give me your insights into it. =]
Don't be polite, I hate that. Say what you want to say.
I presented my opinions multiple times in this thread, if you want to look, you can search them. Or not, don't care.
NDA has absolutely nothing to do with this issue, you shouldn't bring it up and discredit KeSPA based on that, that's my point about your post.
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I was half expecting this when I saw DoA post about it, I think he has some growing up to do really if he reacts like that to something he hasnt even fully investigated, looking forward to the cast tonight even more now, as the commentators may actually be half decent.
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I think DoA did what was necessary
without what he did we would have never gotten a response
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On December 08 2012 04:06 Doodsmack wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2012 02:57 felisconcolori wrote:On December 08 2012 02:39 Doodsmack wrote:
So many people with poor reading comprehension in this world. Get it through your skulls that DoA claimed the OGN-Kespa negotiation regarding an English cast had fallen through, and all but blamed Kespa for it. Kespa now reveals that negotiations were merely extended, AND ARE STILL ONGOING AS DOA HIMSELF NOW SAYS IN HIS CORRECTION WHERE HE ADMITS HE MISUNDERSTOOD. Therefore DoA gave incorrect information.
I'm sure the same people theorizing that Kespa is throwing DoA under the bus in order to cover up for its own mistake are the same ones who claimed yesterday that MLG had conspired with Kespa to push OGN out and secure the English cast for MLG. In some people's minds big companies are always guilty until proven innocent, even if there's no concrete evidence to go on - only a theoretical possibility. Just please understand that it doesn't do this community any good. Please learn to understand - KeSPA is not a big company. It's an official organ of the Ministry of Culture, Sports, and Tourism. Technically speaking, an NGO. It is not organized for efficiency. The official organization chart indicates that the actual gaming and organization of gaming is the smallest part of its functions, whereas the largest are marketing and legal. OGN is not producing English broadcast for Proleague, in part because negotiations are being "extended" according to KeSPA. (KeSPA is likewise a single source, able to shade language and shape a statement to its own purposes.) Those negotiations, according to KeSPA, ARE NOT FOR ENGLISH BROADCASTS. Reading comprehension ftw. Those negotiations are for the formation of a consortium between KeSPA, IEG, and OGN, for the specific purposes stated in the KeSPA statement. There are still disagreements, thus the negotiations are extended. Until there is a finalized agreement, OGN has indicated they will not produce English broadcasts for PL. This is OGN exerting pressure on KeSPA/IEG during the negotiation process. Why, we don't know. Maybe IEG is balking, or maybe it's KeSPA, or maybe someone is asking too much of OGN. We don't know. ... but historically, I'm thinking that KeSPA is saying "This is how it will happen" and one or both of the other organizations are disagreeing over one or more items. So KeSPA says negotiations are extended - they are still talking to each other, someone trying to convince someone else that something is good for everything. We don't know who, what or where. But the consequence is OGN is not doing the PL English casts. Who told the foreign community this (with some emotional bias) was DoA - and only after that does the MLG doing English for PL come up. And that was what... the same week as the opening match?? Surely, MLG was in talks for months to do this. Which is why we heard about it this week. TRANSPARENCY. Or hell, information. Getting it nailed down in advance, announcing things like this, it's good. We like information. It's our friends. 1) you're nitpicking re Kespa being a NGO. The people concocting conspiracy theories are treating Kespa as big organization in the same way they treat MlG as a big organization - guilty until proven innocent. My point stands. 2) the three way consortium talks are for the specific purpose of international broadcast services. English casting is a central part of that. So yeah, you completely misunderstood that portion of the op if you dont think the talks were concerning english casting. Also, see how you admit negotiations are ongoing? That means DoA was incorrect in claiming negotiations broke down, thus the entire point I was making still stands. For you to go on about the negotiations when you think you're refuting my argument just demonstrates that you didnt understand the point of my argument.
1) Nitpicking, no. A major corporation has a strong profit motive driven by a product for sale. An NGO may have a profit motive, but it is often not the primary motive behind their actions. KeSPA as an NGO has as a primary motive that is not related to profit, but to their stated purpose. (Which is here.) They also have a stance (possibly because of their NGO status) that KeSPA is, should be, and must be, the sole driving and guiding force in their industry. Their history consists in part of strong arm tactics intended to cause other organizations to join with them, subject to their decisions. That there is a negotiation to create a consortium (of which, I have no doubt KeSPA will head) that can impact the PL broadcast is a little telling here. They already have a relationship with IEG and OGN. Why is this consortium negotiation's status affecting the English broadcast? What about that negotiation touches on or is causing OGN to not provide English broadcast services to someone already a partner?
2) Again, reading comprehension. The consortium negotiations are NOT solely for the specific purpose of international broadcast services. Otherwise, they would have stated it in those terms. They instead said, specifically, "By bundling the Starleague and Proleague, the goal was to prevent cannibalization of the market between the two, and create synergy to stabilize international broadcast services." They are creating a single package in which OSL and PL are, more or less, a solo tournament and a team league, packaged and delivered together. They are reducing competition between OSL and PL, gaining PL something which apparently they didn't have (an English broadcast ability) and had little preparation for, and are creating a relationship far closer than their past partnerships. What about international broadcast services requires stabilization from OGN? They already have the capability and demonstrated ability. KeSPA doesn't. Neither does IEG. What actually needs to be stabilized? Except that it will reduce any pressure on IEG/KeSPA due to a lack of such ability, and eliminate the need for OGN and IEG/KeSPA to compete against each other in a global audience.
I think I can sum up your point quite succinctly - "Guys, KeSPA is a lovely organization and DoA messed up. KeSPA would not do the kinds of things people are saying they do, and they aren't being mean to DoA for causing a fuss."
Given that I expect KeSPA to have reasonably decent translators on staff, I imagine the word choice in their statement is deliberate even if they don't wholly understand the connotations connected. From a historical perspective, I think that it's quite possible for KeSPA to be engaging in shenanigans, that there was an intent to respond very harshly towards DoA. They claim DoA has apologized - something DoA has stated quite firmly he has not done. Yes, DoA might have been incorrect, but be realistic - KeSPA's own actions in the past make it entirely too believable that they are continuing in this tradition to the future.
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On December 08 2012 04:51 leo23 wrote:
I think DoA did what was necessary
without what he did we would have never gotten a response
There was no need for response in the first place, there was/will have english cast, just not from ogn. Hence, drama from nothing.
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SC2 community stirring shit up for nothing, what else is new.
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On December 08 2012 05:04 jinorazi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2012 04:51 leo23 wrote:
I think DoA did what was necessary
without what he did we would have never gotten a response There was no need for response in the first place, there was/will have english cast, just not from ogn. Hence, drama from nothing.
Actually, for opening day, DoA and Montecristo will be casting. It will not be OGN, though. They are doing it as a favor to IEG, I think. (At least, that's how it sounded from DoA.)
Random, unrelated topic - lots of very low post individuals commenting in this thread without actually taking part in the conversation - just short notes along the lines of "blah blah is a horrible person and wrong to have done this" or "this organization sucks".
I think I read a blog about something like that awhile back...
Hmmmmmm....
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Does anyone know if the streams / videos are going to be available for the whole world, or if it's going to be limited for Koreans as was the case with the MvP invitational?
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Yeah, I don't really get why people are so much on DoA's side on this.. He clearly wrote the post based on without all the information, and probably off the frustration of not knowing much. That HAS to be seen as unprofessional, especially if you have been working with the organization that you are going to be "exposing".
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Yup, clearly all Doas fault. KeSpa is not trying to take control over broadcasting with IEG.. oh wait.
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On December 08 2012 04:21 Connor987 wrote:
I was half expecting this when I saw DoA post about it, I think he has some growing up to do really if he reacts like that to something he hasnt even fully investigated, looking forward to the cast tonight even more now, as the commentators may actually be half decent.
The problem with Doa currently, and it's a problem in a lot of the community, is that there are a lot of people who give the community power. That the community frankly has no place in.
Esports, and sc2, are different from traditional sports in that we involve our community a lot. And some of the involvement of our community is good. Some of the power in our community is good. But when that is appropriate and when the community really has no place at all is still a very grey area. This was an example of a time when the community didn't deserve to know anything and really had no place to feel like they should have deciding authority on anything, especially with half-cocked information.
It's something that will continue to develop, just like "how to market" Sc2 and esports is still developing, and "how to advertise to these people" is still developing.
Doa fucked up. We're still having an english broadcast. Every top league organization still isn't playing well with eachother and that's still not unique to KESPA. It's raining outside. The sky is still blue. We're growing. Calm down.
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What's irksome to me about harshing on DoA is that he was basically the "last guy to know" in this situation. If KeSPA had English-language plans, for OGN to be proceeding as they have and have the lights turned off like that, no, KeSPA can EABOD.
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korean cast is better anyways
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Can't we just be glad that there is still development towards English casting and viewing on twitch instead of hating on the Kespa / DoA. The entire community is full of prima donnas. If something resolved itself or if people are working towards resolving something you don't continually shit on their progress, as if you want things to fail just to prove your own selfish point.
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DoA was just saying what he understood to be the situation - let it go!
Just be glad KeSPA is going to have an English cast for those of us who don't want the Korean cast, I'm still unbelievably pumped for Proleague and the unveiling of the Unholy Alliance
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On December 08 2012 05:17 Tapppi wrote:
Yeah, I don't really get why people are so much on DoA's side on this.. He clearly wrote the post based on without all the information, and probably off the frustration of not knowing much. That HAS to be seen as unprofessional, especially if you have been working with the organization that you are going to be "exposing".
Because one shouldn't trust what Kespa says at face value. And what Kespa said didn't actually contradict anything DoA said, either (from what I can tell).
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Canada1637 Posts
On December 08 2012 04:51 leo23 wrote:
I think DoA did what was necessary
without what he did we would have never gotten a response
Pretty sure the shitstorm from Alex Garfield and Nazgul behind the scenes would mean much more to KeSPA.
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Them harping on DOA is pretty bullshit, if he didn't post anything would they have even thought about having an English broadcast? I doubt it.
As much as I've loved PL over the years and the TL-EG combo if there's no english, it won't be watched by this guy.
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The first rule of Kespa Club is: you do not talk about Kespa Club!
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EPT
