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Nice view on Starcraft, a bit naive and sketchy tho, as with the supraconductor stuff that followed. Nonetheless good publicity for our favorite game and TLO.
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Awesome video! I love how all the clips of TLO were from Liquid Rising :p
TLO fighting!
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Did they seriously call tlo one of the top gamers in the world....?
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wow that was the bomb...its another thing out in the main stream and who knows...it could help if its for science lol
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On December 05 2012 07:18 CrushDog5 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2012 07:02 Clout308 wrote:
How cool would it be to be part of that study?! You CAN be part of the study. SkillCraft is an ongoing research program investigating cognitive motor expertise through the analysis of game data. Our scientific paper is now out for review, and we're working on more projects (and awaiting results from grant applications). Our next project is a longitudinal study were players who have saved a large percentage of their replays can submit all their games to us for analysis. We're planning to be ready to collect data in February, before the HoTS release, so save your replays!
I have like 400 replays of myself saved from my progression from gold to diamond (more to come I hope  maybe that could be useful. Can't wait to see the future studies :D
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On December 05 2012 08:22 kraut wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2012 07:29 Mariosatr wrote:On December 05 2012 06:54 MWY wrote:On December 05 2012 05:25 Mariosatr wrote:On December 05 2012 04:41 SpikeStarcraft wrote:On December 05 2012 04:34 Willba wrote:On December 05 2012 04:26 SpikeStarcraft wrote:On December 05 2012 03:29 Kilby wrote:On December 05 2012 03:09 SpikeStarcraft wrote:I was expecting people on the tl forum to be able to use a proxy. I just use my standard program for it and im fine was kinda funny, tlo likes his role as a superhero^^ although hes not actually one of the top players in europe nor in Germany skillwise. Fanbase and Community wise hes one of the top foreigners, Not one of the top players in Germany? I would disagree with that. Please name five German players who are better than TLO. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_StarCraft_II_World_Championship_Series/Europe/Nationals/GermanyIn WCS Germany he placed 9-12th, losing to hasu obs and Jaxx. Players who placed better were Socke, Hasuobs, Darkforce, Krass, Heromarine, DBS, Jaxx and Kara. DBS, Jaxx and Kara are inactive at the moment. so there are 5 people left: Socke, Hasuobs, Darkforce, Krass and Heromarine being significantly better than TLO and still active. I would count Hanfy better too since he won the last german EPS against players like Hasu, Socke and Monchi. That would be 6 players being better. Then there are people roughly at the same level like Delphi and Tarrantius who placed 9-12th too at WCS and Goody which i wouldnt consider definetely inferior to TLO. But well, now that TLO lives in Berlin, Germany he could compete in the next season of the German EPS and show where hes at in the German scene skillwise. These results are 6 months old and TLO has improved a lot during this time. At this current point in time he is definitely one of the best German players. Hes not competing much against German players. Thats true. But what indicates that hes better than socke, hasuobs, darkforce, krass, heromarine or hanfy? He gets invited to a lot of tournaments and he has a big fanbase but thats no reason why I would consider him better. If he wants to be one of the top players in Germany he has to prove it yet. You need to give a reason why he would be better than those people i named. Its unfortunately that Darkforce didnt play WCG, i think he could have placed good. Hasuobs did do well at IEM singapore. TLO gets a lot of exposure everywhere, hes much more present than other players. but thats no indication of skill. TLO went 4-1 in his group at DH Winter, being the only player with HerO to take games off him in the entire tournament, let alone beat him. Now that may not be amazing, but he also beat DIMAGA, Bischu and TargA. That result alone places him above a lot of those players. Also, no offence but Heromarine and Krass are bettter? That's like saying KilleR and Suppy are better than Stephano because they placed higher in BWC. Heromarine and Krass don't have much going for them but a few German tournaments and WCS Germany; TLO competes mainly in international tournaments as opposed to German. Actually, they are becoming really really good now. I remember Hasu losing to Krass several times lately. I'm sure they could be improving, but still, the point was that TLO is a pretty high-tier foreigner. WCS Germany isn't the only viewpoint, and while DH Winter isn't too, you have to admit he's been doing a lot better recently; while KraSs may be getting better, I doubt he'll be able to compete on an international level like TLO does until atleast 2013. oh hai http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Multiplay_UK_i47
I stand corrected, but honestly, Multiplay UK isn't a "huge international tournament"; it's minor at best. That doesn't change anything about competing on an international level.
On December 05 2012 11:24 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2012 05:25 Mariosatr wrote:On December 05 2012 04:41 SpikeStarcraft wrote:On December 05 2012 04:34 Willba wrote:On December 05 2012 04:26 SpikeStarcraft wrote:On December 05 2012 03:29 Kilby wrote:On December 05 2012 03:09 SpikeStarcraft wrote:I was expecting people on the tl forum to be able to use a proxy. I just use my standard program for it and im fine was kinda funny, tlo likes his role as a superhero^^ although hes not actually one of the top players in europe nor in Germany skillwise. Fanbase and Community wise hes one of the top foreigners, Not one of the top players in Germany? I would disagree with that. Please name five German players who are better than TLO. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_StarCraft_II_World_Championship_Series/Europe/Nationals/GermanyIn WCS Germany he placed 9-12th, losing to hasu obs and Jaxx. Players who placed better were Socke, Hasuobs, Darkforce, Krass, Heromarine, DBS, Jaxx and Kara. DBS, Jaxx and Kara are inactive at the moment. so there are 5 people left: Socke, Hasuobs, Darkforce, Krass and Heromarine being significantly better than TLO and still active. I would count Hanfy better too since he won the last german EPS against players like Hasu, Socke and Monchi. That would be 6 players being better. Then there are people roughly at the same level like Delphi and Tarrantius who placed 9-12th too at WCS and Goody which i wouldnt consider definetely inferior to TLO. But well, now that TLO lives in Berlin, Germany he could compete in the next season of the German EPS and show where hes at in the German scene skillwise. These results are 6 months old and TLO has improved a lot during this time. At this current point in time he is definitely one of the best German players. Hes not competing much against German players. Thats true. But what indicates that hes better than socke, hasuobs, darkforce, krass, heromarine or hanfy? He gets invited to a lot of tournaments and he has a big fanbase but thats no reason why I would consider him better. If he wants to be one of the top players in Germany he has to prove it yet. You need to give a reason why he would be better than those people i named. Its unfortunately that Darkforce didnt play WCG, i think he could have placed good. Hasuobs did do well at IEM singapore. TLO gets a lot of exposure everywhere, hes much more present than other players. but thats no indication of skill. TLO went 4-1 in his group at DH Winter, being the only player with HerO to take games off him in the entire tournament, let alone beat him. Now that may not be amazing, but he also beat DIMAGA, Bischu and TargA. That result alone places him above a lot of those players. Also, no offence but Heromarine and Krass are bettter? That's like saying KilleR and Suppy are better than Stephano because they placed higher in BWC. Heromarine and Krass don't have much going for them but a few German tournaments and WCS Germany; TLO competes mainly in international tournaments as opposed to German. after watching his code A qualification games, I just can't say he is a good player at all. He tried to do cool strategies like nydus and roach drop against a mass thor terran and lost completely. he won a few games because of his scouting (clever scouting for proxy) and base trades. I don't remember he won any by standard games at all
Code A? The only time a foreigner wins in code A is if it's a fluke or occasionally NaNiwa; by your logic, people like ThorZaIN aren't good either.
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seems it is region locked in Europe.
-.- i hate this. No love for EU ever. Same with CBS.... And people are complaining about video piracy
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FWIW I cannot watch either and my ad block is off... I'm watching forGG's stream but I'm not seeing any of the 3+ ads he clicks after each game =p
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at least the ads aren't eurolocked that's very considerate of them
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That was a surprisingly good video. And a very interesting way to look at the skill level and learning progress.
And Dario funny as always xD
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On December 05 2012 16:38 Mariosatr wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2012 08:22 kraut wrote:On December 05 2012 07:29 Mariosatr wrote:On December 05 2012 06:54 MWY wrote:On December 05 2012 05:25 Mariosatr wrote:On December 05 2012 04:41 SpikeStarcraft wrote:On December 05 2012 04:34 Willba wrote:On December 05 2012 04:26 SpikeStarcraft wrote:On December 05 2012 03:29 Kilby wrote:On December 05 2012 03:09 SpikeStarcraft wrote:I was expecting people on the tl forum to be able to use a proxy. I just use my standard program for it and im fine was kinda funny, tlo likes his role as a superhero^^ although hes not actually one of the top players in europe nor in Germany skillwise. Fanbase and Community wise hes one of the top foreigners, Not one of the top players in Germany? I would disagree with that. Please name five German players who are better than TLO. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_StarCraft_II_World_Championship_Series/Europe/Nationals/GermanyIn WCS Germany he placed 9-12th, losing to hasu obs and Jaxx. Players who placed better were Socke, Hasuobs, Darkforce, Krass, Heromarine, DBS, Jaxx and Kara. DBS, Jaxx and Kara are inactive at the moment. so there are 5 people left: Socke, Hasuobs, Darkforce, Krass and Heromarine being significantly better than TLO and still active. I would count Hanfy better too since he won the last german EPS against players like Hasu, Socke and Monchi. That would be 6 players being better. Then there are people roughly at the same level like Delphi and Tarrantius who placed 9-12th too at WCS and Goody which i wouldnt consider definetely inferior to TLO. But well, now that TLO lives in Berlin, Germany he could compete in the next season of the German EPS and show where hes at in the German scene skillwise. These results are 6 months old and TLO has improved a lot during this time. At this current point in time he is definitely one of the best German players. Hes not competing much against German players. Thats true. But what indicates that hes better than socke, hasuobs, darkforce, krass, heromarine or hanfy? He gets invited to a lot of tournaments and he has a big fanbase but thats no reason why I would consider him better. If he wants to be one of the top players in Germany he has to prove it yet. You need to give a reason why he would be better than those people i named. Its unfortunately that Darkforce didnt play WCG, i think he could have placed good. Hasuobs did do well at IEM singapore. TLO gets a lot of exposure everywhere, hes much more present than other players. but thats no indication of skill. TLO went 4-1 in his group at DH Winter, being the only player with HerO to take games off him in the entire tournament, let alone beat him. Now that may not be amazing, but he also beat DIMAGA, Bischu and TargA. That result alone places him above a lot of those players. Also, no offence but Heromarine and Krass are bettter? That's like saying KilleR and Suppy are better than Stephano because they placed higher in BWC. Heromarine and Krass don't have much going for them but a few German tournaments and WCS Germany; TLO competes mainly in international tournaments as opposed to German. Actually, they are becoming really really good now. I remember Hasu losing to Krass several times lately. I'm sure they could be improving, but still, the point was that TLO is a pretty high-tier foreigner. WCS Germany isn't the only viewpoint, and while DH Winter isn't too, you have to admit he's been doing a lot better recently; while KraSs may be getting better, I doubt he'll be able to compete on an international level like TLO does until atleast 2013. oh hai http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Multiplay_UK_i47 I stand corrected, but honestly, Multiplay UK isn't a "huge international tournament"; it's minor at best. That doesn't change anything about competing on an international level. Show nested quote +On December 05 2012 11:24 ETisME wrote:On December 05 2012 05:25 Mariosatr wrote:On December 05 2012 04:41 SpikeStarcraft wrote:On December 05 2012 04:34 Willba wrote:On December 05 2012 04:26 SpikeStarcraft wrote:On December 05 2012 03:29 Kilby wrote:On December 05 2012 03:09 SpikeStarcraft wrote:I was expecting people on the tl forum to be able to use a proxy. I just use my standard program for it and im fine was kinda funny, tlo likes his role as a superhero^^ although hes not actually one of the top players in europe nor in Germany skillwise. Fanbase and Community wise hes one of the top foreigners, Not one of the top players in Germany? I would disagree with that. Please name five German players who are better than TLO. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_StarCraft_II_World_Championship_Series/Europe/Nationals/GermanyIn WCS Germany he placed 9-12th, losing to hasu obs and Jaxx. Players who placed better were Socke, Hasuobs, Darkforce, Krass, Heromarine, DBS, Jaxx and Kara. DBS, Jaxx and Kara are inactive at the moment. so there are 5 people left: Socke, Hasuobs, Darkforce, Krass and Heromarine being significantly better than TLO and still active. I would count Hanfy better too since he won the last german EPS against players like Hasu, Socke and Monchi. That would be 6 players being better. Then there are people roughly at the same level like Delphi and Tarrantius who placed 9-12th too at WCS and Goody which i wouldnt consider definetely inferior to TLO. But well, now that TLO lives in Berlin, Germany he could compete in the next season of the German EPS and show where hes at in the German scene skillwise. These results are 6 months old and TLO has improved a lot during this time. At this current point in time he is definitely one of the best German players. Hes not competing much against German players. Thats true. But what indicates that hes better than socke, hasuobs, darkforce, krass, heromarine or hanfy? He gets invited to a lot of tournaments and he has a big fanbase but thats no reason why I would consider him better. If he wants to be one of the top players in Germany he has to prove it yet. You need to give a reason why he would be better than those people i named. Its unfortunately that Darkforce didnt play WCG, i think he could have placed good. Hasuobs did do well at IEM singapore. TLO gets a lot of exposure everywhere, hes much more present than other players. but thats no indication of skill. TLO went 4-1 in his group at DH Winter, being the only player with HerO to take games off him in the entire tournament, let alone beat him. Now that may not be amazing, but he also beat DIMAGA, Bischu and TargA. That result alone places him above a lot of those players. Also, no offence but Heromarine and Krass are bettter? That's like saying KilleR and Suppy are better than Stephano because they placed higher in BWC. Heromarine and Krass don't have much going for them but a few German tournaments and WCS Germany; TLO competes mainly in international tournaments as opposed to German. after watching his code A qualification games, I just can't say he is a good player at all. He tried to do cool strategies like nydus and roach drop against a mass thor terran and lost completely. he won a few games because of his scouting (clever scouting for proxy) and base trades. I don't remember he won any by standard games at all Code A? The only time a foreigner wins in code A is if it's a fluke or occasionally NaNiwa; by your logic, people like ThorZaIN aren't good either.
naniwa never won in code A :D
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I think it's regional, people outside NA can't see it I think..
All people that I can see comment it does not work, are EU people. it does not work for me either.
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On December 05 2012 04:05 Chaloo wrote:Yes worked fine for me, thank you!
thanks indeed! works awesome!
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Just because youre competing internationally doesnt mean that you're better skillwise.
TLO can compete there because he has a funny personality and therefore a huge fanbase that wants to see his fancy strats, gets direct invites or is able to travel to the open bracket because he has a team that pays for his travel expenses and he has commited himself to be a fulltime pro gamer.
That has nothing to do with skill and its incredibly hard for unknown players to make it to international tournaments. You need to qualify for the event which isnt that easy compared to direct invites or open brackets (tlo failed yesterday in IEM Katowice qualification stage 1 against fuzer), you need a good team that is willing to pay for your travelling (really hard to find), you need a fanbase so you're more appealing for sponsors and you have to make the commitment to be a fulltime pro because if you still go to school or work you cant just travel around the world all the time.
That are just way harder obstacles than just being better skillwise. The only reason why you would consider him better is because hes competing internationally and you hear from him all the time. If you just compare results where you can draw a direct comparison (WCS, I47) theres no indication that tlo is actually better.
But well as i said, im looking forward for him to compete in EPS because then you can see how good he actually is in direct comparison to other German players.
I dont try to be mean or anything, i just think its unfair to player who struggle to get as much exposure to think that they must be worse skillwise, just because you dont hear as much from them.
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"and i'm going to look like a superhuman" haha <3 Dario
thanks for the link Kennigit!
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On December 05 2012 02:35 TheFlock wrote:Haha that was pretty funny, It seemed like the results for learning cognitive expertise were pretty lame and extremely obvious but I can't complain that I get to see TLO and SC2 on Discovery I was wondering why they put shots of HerO vs Puma and even Zenio, when i'm sure Dario has lots of exciting replays he could have pulled up for the cameras... Oh well GG WP Dario! Great TV spot
They're only obvious because you were already aware of them due to your expertise at the game! They are not obvious to the uninformed. Most games take a few hours to learn basic rules, and a maybe 20 hours to become proficient . Sc2 is a game with complex rules, implied rules, rules that are based on metagame, you can't learn the rules from the ground up even in a week. I've been playing religiously since release and I'm only high diamond. I do, however, think the scientist leading the study didn't emphasize the role of tier-by-tier skill set building enough.
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On December 05 2012 22:57 SpikeStarcraft wrote:
Just because youre competing internationally doesnt mean that you're better skillwise.
TLO currently is the best german player and one of the stronger foreigners. Look at the results Socke or HasuObs had in the last big tournaments: They got crushed in group stages sometimes not winning a single series. Only Darforce may be strong too, but wasnt at a major tournament lately.
TLO instead showed pretty strong games and good results lately. Sometimes it hurts a bit to watch him play too gimmicky and loose games he should won for sure. But right now he shows the strongest potential of all remaining Liquid Foreigners.
He may not be toptop korean level, but hes definatly one of the best foreigners..
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EPT
