In response to an OSEN article that suggested the lack of KeSPA players at IPL5 was due to a boycott, KeSPA made an unusually detailed statement regarding their communications with IGN, and publicly revealed their policies regarding international tournament participation for KeSPA players.
IPL never contacted the KeSPA office regarding the invitation of KeSPA players through official or unofficial channels. On October 13th, a person claiming to be affiliated with IPL contacted the teams KT and SKT individually to inquire if specific players could be sent. The Association declined direct contact with the teams, and requested that they negotiate regarding participating and scheduling through a KeSPA channel. There was no response from IPL towards KeSPA afterward.
Participation standards regarding international and non-KeSPA tournaments
Through the KeSPA strategic committee, KeSPA teams are resolved to not send players to accept individual invitations to international tournaments without prior negotiation regarding scheduling, conditions, and support for the invited players. This is to protect the KeSPA hosted leagues such as the Starleague and Proleague, the players, and pro-game teams. We agreed that the automatic participation in IPL through the GSL would not be subject to these conditions [Note: this regards Innovation/Bogus]. KeSPA is presently negotiating with several international tournament organizers regarding the participation of players in their tournaments, and this information has been shared with Blizzard, with a way of cooperation being discussed.
KeSPA's position on issues regarding participation in other tournaments
There have been multiple instances such as IPL5 or the recent 2012 GSL Tour Grand Final [Note: GSL's year end event to which KeSPA player Rain has been invited] where KeSPA players have been given seeds and invited without prior agreement with KeSPA. We officially request that the organizations cooperate with KeSPA, and we will not recognize procedures where KeSPA players are unilaterally announced as participants in tournament through media announce and such.
TL;DR: All inquiries and negotiations regarding KeSPA player participation must be done through KeSPA, not the individual teams.
I don't think it's a good thing that everything has to be done through KeSPA, but that's probably how it has always been. Although in broodwar there might not have been as much international tournament participation.
I wish kespa was sall, "Hey guys, you can do international tournaments without contacting us because I think it should be your free will to go to tournaments you want to go to assss long as you practice."
Nothing surprising here. KeSPA is a player organization and wants organizations to contact them regarding their players. More information from tournament organizations or KeSPA about their policies (what is enough player support) will determine how fair or preferential these policies may be.
On December 01 2012 02:15 Picklebread wrote: I wish kespa was sall, "Hey guys, you can do international tournaments without contacting us because I think it should be your free will to go to tournaments you want to go to assss long as you practice."
Yea but it costs alot of money to send players to tournaments that they didnt even qualify for. You're basically banking on the fact that they can get through the open bracket and up onwards through the tourny.
I am thinking more and more that the right response of the world is to just start ignoring KeSPA and their players altogether. So you wanna have your nice closed leagues with your private superstars? Cool. We can have fun without you.
On December 01 2012 02:27 opisska wrote: I am thinking more and more that the right response of the world is to just start ignoring KeSPA and their players altogether. So you wanna have your nice closed leagues with your private superstars? Cool. We can have fun without you.
I don't think they want to have their closed leagues where only their players can compete and the players can compete only there. They only want to have control over "their" players, however, I don't know if that's a good thing or not.
On December 01 2012 02:18 TrickyGilligan wrote: So, they want to receive invitations to open tournaments? Then get butt-hurt and release statements when they don't get them.
Cool.
wat. Im really curious of the thought process here to come up with this post.
On December 01 2012 02:19 Mirhi wrote: This is not true. IPL both directly and indirectly contacted KeSPA. We contacted the following sources:
KeSPA officials KeSPA teams KeSPA players OGN
All about trying to get KeSPA players for IPL Fight Club and IPL5, and future events.
Uh oh.. then someone is lying.
Now we need proof, a chat log or whatever. Put on the role of Detective Jessica and let the festivities commence!
Mirhi deleted his comment. I wonder why.
Different possibilies. Could for example be that he #1 has no proof, could be that they #2 will do a better announcement or could be #3 that it's wrong. I think it's either #1 or #2.
On December 01 2012 02:27 opisska wrote: I am thinking more and more that the right response of the world is to just start ignoring KeSPA and their players altogether. So you wanna have your nice closed leagues with your private superstars? Cool. We can have fun without you.
Any players in real professional team league sports are not free to attend any tournament or commercials in their own will. They are all the best leagues.
KeSPA still hasn't realized that SC2 is nothing like BW. Without foreign support they seriously wouldn't last long. Eventually they will see that there closed mindedness doesn't work now and will come around once their numbers turn to total shit.
I know as a good TL poster I'm supposed to hate KeSPA but all these things sound extraordinarily reasonable considering KeSPA's sole reason for existance
On December 01 2012 02:30 Stress wrote: KeSPA still hasn't realized that SC2 is nothing like BW. Without foreign support they seriously wouldn't last long. Eventually they will see that there closed mindedness doesn't work now and will come around once their numbers turn to total shit.
Kespa care only about returns for the following companies: KT, SKT, CJ, STX, Samsung, Woongjin
Only one of those (Samsung) would care about international exposure.
Any players who are on Kespa teams that want foreign exposure should join an ESF or foreign team that has an incentive to do so.
On December 01 2012 02:30 Stress wrote: KeSPA still hasn't realized that SC2 is nothing like BW. Without foreign support they seriously wouldn't last long. Eventually they will see that there closed mindedness doesn't work now and will come around once their numbers turn to total shit.
It's more like they want to strong-arm both the Korean and foreign scene at once. Truth is, I doubt they will succeed, not only for SC2, but LoL as well. KeSPA don't have many LoL teams of their own. Most of them belongs to ESF or foreign powers.
On December 01 2012 02:30 Stress wrote: KeSPA still hasn't realized that SC2 is nothing like BW. Without foreign support they seriously wouldn't last long. Eventually they will see that there closed mindedness doesn't work now and will come around once their numbers turn to total shit.
Kespa care only about returns for the following companies: KT, SKT, CJ, STX, Samsung, Woongjin
Only one of those (Samsung) would care about international exposure.
Any players who are on Kespa teams that want foreign exposure should join an ESF or foreign team that has an incentive to do so.
Samsung should join ESF and be done with it, to be perfectly honest.
On December 01 2012 02:30 Stress wrote: KeSPA still hasn't realized that SC2 is nothing like BW. Without foreign support they seriously wouldn't last long. Eventually they will see that there closed mindedness doesn't work now and will come around once their numbers turn to total shit.
"there closed mindedness" thats what you got from reading that? man one of us is way off on his reading comprehension, English is my third language so its probably me.
On December 01 2012 02:30 Stress wrote: KeSPA still hasn't realized that SC2 is nothing like BW. Without foreign support they seriously wouldn't last long. Eventually they will see that there closed mindedness doesn't work now and will come around once their numbers turn to total shit.
"there closed mindedness" thats what you got from reading that? man one of us is way off on his reading comprehension, English is my third language so its probably me.
Just one of those ESF fan boys who thinks they walk on water. Will attack KESPA even in situations where there isn't a need. He wasn't around when there was nothing. Wasn't around when KESPA made a real eSPORT not this SC2 chaos (good, but still chaos).
On December 01 2012 02:35 achan1058 wrote: Samsung should join ESF and be done with it, to be perfectly honest.
Because ESF membership has so many benefits that a company like Samsung would "join it".
Yes it does, at least it's not a sinking ship. KeSPA is dying. Leave the sinking ship.
only the SC2 side is dying
Is Najin in KeSPA? Azubu probably isn't, and CJ Entus last time I check was even worse than IM"s team. It's not like KeSPA actually has a real grip on LoL.
well, KESPA is trying to hold on to the sole justification of its existence in this day and age, which is understandable. they should, however, recognize that times have changed and that the sc2 scene isnt korea-dominated and korea-based anymore, so that a shady monopoly over the whole proscene like the one KESPA used to have in bw is impossible.
regarding the argument that most kespa teams dont care about anything else than exposure in korea itself: well, while this is true, it is also true that sc2 is no big success in korea so far. if the companies behind kespa teams want to increase the effect of the their sponsorship of sc2 teams in korea, it is in their utmost interest to increase the success of sc2 in their home market. this, however, can only be achieved if the quality of sc2 as a spectator sport is increased. while this would require many parties to play their role, for example blizzard to improve the game, a first step would be to use the immense talent of the kespa players to its full potential all around the world. what kespa is aiming for right now, on the other hand, is strengthening the divide of the sc2 scene among the ogn vs gom, mlg vs ipl, kespa vs esf lines, which will do the exact opposite of that.
basically, kespa is still acting like the schoolyard bully that tries to oppress all competition. in bw, this was possible as the foreigner scene was non-existent, but in sc2 its the other way round. one could also say that the bullied kid has had a burst of growth over the summer and the former bully now tries to push around someone that is actually an inch taller than himself. not gonna work out.
realistically though, I think that there is no hope for this whole mess to end well. imho, the divide that I mentioned before will deepen and in the end, the kespa companies will pull their funding, leaving sc2 as an international sport whose revenues are mainly generated in NA and EU, but whose playerbase is - for historical reasons - recruited mainly from korea.
On December 01 2012 02:27 opisska wrote: I am thinking more and more that the right response of the world is to just start ignoring KeSPA and their players altogether. So you wanna have your nice closed leagues with your private superstars? Cool. We can have fun without you.
Any players in real professional team league sports are not free to attend any tournament or commercials in their own will. They are all the best leagues.
That doesn't mean the we have to neccessarily copy this model. Only because it is so widespread does not mean that it is somehow transcendentaly "better". It leads to many undesired consequences, such as corruption, doping (when relevant) and other underground methods - becuase in the closed competition, everyone has the other one's back.
I think that most players can't (realistically) go to a tournament without team approval. This isn't specific to KeSPA so I don't really see the issue as KeSPA, more the system in general (if one even wanted to open up the possibility for criticism).
On December 01 2012 02:35 achan1058 wrote: Samsung should join ESF and be done with it, to be perfectly honest.
Because ESF membership has so many benefits that a company like Samsung would "join it".
Yes it does, at least it's not a sinking ship. KeSPA is dying. Leave the sinking ship.
Kespa is as alive as companies behind it (including Samsung) deem reasonable to invest in the esports side of things. Even if the ship is sinking, it's simply because Samsung & co have many other ships they prefer investing in.
On December 01 2012 02:55 KookyMonster wrote: I think that most players can't (realistically) go to a tournament without team approval. This isn't specific to KeSPA so I don't really see the issue as KeSPA, more the system in general (if one even wanted to open up the possibility for criticism).
Kespa aren't a team, the team's are required to get KESPA's approval.
On December 01 2012 02:30 Stress wrote: KeSPA still hasn't realized that SC2 is nothing like BW. Without foreign support they seriously wouldn't last long. Eventually they will see that there closed mindedness doesn't work now and will come around once their numbers turn to total shit.
"there closed mindedness" thats what you got from reading that? man one of us is way off on his reading comprehension, English is my third language so its probably me.
No, I just don't think KeSPA should be ruling the players with an iron fist. If a player is invited to a foreign tournament I don't see why he/she shouldn't be able to participate unless it conflicts with an already scheduled match. The decision should then come down to his/her team and the player, not KeSPA organizational body. This statement that was just released says that they have final say over everything. So, for example, lets say DH does something that pisses KeSPA off, KeSPA has the power to control and stop all players from participating in select tournament(s). Do you really think KeSPA should have that kind of control over the players/teams?
On December 01 2012 02:35 achan1058 wrote: Samsung should join ESF and be done with it, to be perfectly honest.
Because ESF membership has so many benefits that a company like Samsung would "join it".
Yes it does, at least it's not a sinking ship. KeSPA is dying. Leave the sinking ship.
Kespa is as alive as companies behind it (including Samsung) deem reasonable to invest in the esports side of things. Even if the ship is sinking, it's simply because Samsung & co have many other ships they prefer investing in.
I am not referring to the companies, but rather the hold they have on the scene. They don't have anywhere near the kind of grip they had in the past, in SC2 or LoL.
On December 01 2012 02:35 achan1058 wrote: Samsung should join ESF and be done with it, to be perfectly honest.
Because ESF membership has so many benefits that a company like Samsung would "join it".
Yes it does, at least it's not a sinking ship. KeSPA is dying. Leave the sinking ship.
Kespa is as alive as companies behind it (including Samsung) deem reasonable to invest in the esports side of things. Even if the ship is sinking, it's simply because Samsung & co have many other ships they prefer investing in.
I am not referring to the companies, but rather the hold they have on the scene. They don't have anywhere near the kind of grip they had in the past, in SC2 or LoL.
I'll rephrase it in your terms then - they have as much hold as they want to have or think is worth having.
On December 01 2012 02:35 achan1058 wrote: Samsung should join ESF and be done with it, to be perfectly honest.
Because ESF membership has so many benefits that a company like Samsung would "join it".
Yes it does, at least it's not a sinking ship. KeSPA is dying. Leave the sinking ship.
Kespa is as alive as companies behind it (including Samsung) deem reasonable to invest in the esports side of things. Even if the ship is sinking, it's simply because Samsung & co have many other ships they prefer investing in.
I am not referring to the companies, but rather the hold they have on the scene. They don't have anywhere near the kind of grip they had in the past, in SC2 or LoL.
I'll rephrase it in your terms then - they have as much hold as they want to have or think is worth having.
Rather, they have as much hold as they can have without making unreasonably sacrifices. They might be richer than Red Bull, but KeSPA's pocket isn't infinite.
On December 01 2012 02:27 opisska wrote: I am thinking more and more that the right response of the world is to just start ignoring KeSPA and their players altogether. So you wanna have your nice closed leagues with your private superstars? Cool. We can have fun without you.
Any players in real professional team league sports are not free to attend any tournament or commercials in their own will. They are all the best leagues.
That doesn't mean the we have to neccessarily copy this model. Only because it is so widespread does not mean that it is somehow transcendentaly "better". It leads to many undesired consequences, such as corruption, doping (when relevant) and other underground methods - becuase in the closed competition, everyone has the other one's back.
There's a reason why that model is widespread. Owners will only invest money in teams when they feel safe, and get control, they will not invest in freelancers who do whatever they want.
eSF teams got sponsors, they don't have owners, basically they are just clan of freelancers.
We can copy the tennis model into SC2, but I doubt SC2 scene got the mojo and money for that kind of model. Even in tennis, low ranked players still struggle hard, not like in team sports.
On December 01 2012 03:04 Xcobidoo wrote: Kespa and OGN is like the NHL of eSports
Kespa has samsung and very popular Korean brands that back it. Meanwhile GOMTV is sponsored by one of the least popular energy drinks in Korea and iirc a Korean travel agency one season? Are you kidding me?
Then again I expect to read this shit from idiots in these threads and I still read them.
On December 01 2012 02:35 achan1058 wrote: Samsung should join ESF and be done with it, to be perfectly honest.
Because ESF membership has so many benefits that a company like Samsung would "join it".
Yes it does, at least it's not a sinking ship. KeSPA is dying. Leave the sinking ship.
Kespa is as alive as companies behind it (including Samsung) deem reasonable to invest in the esports side of things. Even if the ship is sinking, it's simply because Samsung & co have many other ships they prefer investing in.
I am not referring to the companies, but rather the hold they have on the scene. They don't have anywhere near the kind of grip they had in the past, in SC2 or LoL.
I'll rephrase it in your terms then - they have as much hold as they want to have or think is worth having.
Rather, they have as much hold as they can have without making unreasonably sacrifices. They might be richer than Red Bull, but KeSPA's pocket isn't infinite.
They see no real benefit for them to invest more in esports, so obviously investing more would be unreasonable. Either way, they're as strong as they want to be.
If esports had greater potential and it paid off for them to invest into overseas tournaments, they easily have the financial potential to do so. If they wanted to own the entirety of the Korean scene and ESF as a whole, they could. But the investment wouldn't be justified.
Though we have gone through several avenues in speaking to KeSPA, we have been unsuccessful in reaching KeSPA in the past. Now we have their attention we would like to extend the invitation again. We welcome KeSPA players in all IPL events, present and future.
I laugh at kids thinking eSF environment (or "model") is better. As the one above me points out, eSF teams are a bunch of sponsored "free" gamers. When the sponsors pull out, they are done for. Meanwhile KeSPA players are basically employees of Korean corporations, governed by a body that has a tie with the country's ministry. It's a no brainer which one is the professional here. no offense but the way ppl ditched GSL for something else multiple of times show how amateurish it was.
On December 01 2012 03:24 Arceus wrote: I laugh at kids thinking eSF environment (or "model") is better. As the one above me points out, eSF teams are a bunch of sponsored "free" gamers. When the sponsors pull out, they are done for. Meanwhile KeSPA players are basically employees of Korean corporations, governed by a body that has a tie with the country's ministry. It's a no brainer which one is the professional here. no offense but the way ppl ditched GSL for something else multiple of times show how amateurish it was.
To the last part of your post. They ditched the GSL to attend a foreign event for one reason. That reason is to gain foreign fans and hopefully land on a foreign team. They don't care about the GSL or OSL they just want to leave their current and land on a team that actually pays money.
On December 01 2012 02:35 achan1058 wrote: Samsung should join ESF and be done with it, to be perfectly honest.
Because ESF membership has so many benefits that a company like Samsung would "join it".
Yes it does, at least it's not a sinking ship. KeSPA is dying. Leave the sinking ship.
only the SC2 side is dying
Is Najin in KeSPA? Azubu probably isn't, and CJ Entus last time I check was even worse than IM"s team. It's not like KeSPA actually has a real grip on LoL.
KT Rolster's 2nd team is on top of the OGN league right now (although they really just picked up StarTale's disbanded team).
HerpDeDerp that is obvious no? I mean, if IPL are QQn cuz none of them turned up or whatever, why they not think i know lets go through there governing body and ask them if they want to send anyone specifically or if IPL had a list of who they wanted to agree it with them.
lets hope they can survive with this much unneccesary beurocracy. whole hat with kespa players pretty much died down already. they dont levirage enough to force this.
On December 01 2012 03:18 Mirhi wrote: Though we have gone through several avenues in speaking to KeSPA, we have been unsuccessful in reaching KeSPA in the past. Now we have their attention we would like to extend the invitation again. We welcome KeSPA players in all IPL events, present and future.
Alright. Then you should definitely try to go through whatever official "channels" they are talking about, and keep a log of the conversation so that you can be sure and have the proof should you need it.
Am I missing something from the ESF bandwagon? Are ESF supporters(typically I'm one of them) supposed to rip on KeSPA at every opportunity? All I see is KeSPA setting a precedent for their policy regarding international tournaments. You want KeSPA players, talk to KeSPA first. There will be an OSL/Proleague interlapping with a foreign tournament at some point. You will have to talk to KeSPA to see if they can or are willing to make adjustments to let their players play. There just setting a precedent, their policy on foreign tournaments. And its a pretty rational policy. Our tourneys come before international tourneys for our players. Talk to us first.
There's really no reason to rip on KeSPA unless there is some proof of dishonesty. Which there isn't as of right now. Can we stop the drama please?
Afaik kespa is an organisation overseeing their members' rights and priviliges not unlike a trade union or another universal governing body like the olympic commitee or FIA. The problem with this is that unlike olympic commitee, FIA or even trade unions they have power over only a marginal group of an excessive industry so their actions how beneficial they may be are left quite inconsequitial. They mostlikely are indeed working for the sole benefit (or atleast mainly to benefit) their members in ways most of us can't see and understand as the community of esports is world wide and they mainly only exist in korea and also majority of us aren't even professionals, just very commited fans. The policy of all negotiations going through official channels are very likely to ensure, especially when an international tournament of which there hasn't been much experience beforehand, to discuss how and who is responsible of areas in which are needed to concern while having sent players abroad to ensure their well being. Stuff like accomodation, food expenditure, travel, if something goes wrong who is responsible over insurace etc. and going all the way through to how is the organization going to guarantee payoff in the eventuality of one of the players winning (seen a number of threads about people not reciving their prizemoney). ESports as a concept though is not at all like any industry seen really before as there is no real sole governing body (which I think it rather needs) but alliances that control their own sections holding various events without much coordination or communication.
The reason for my post though was just to express my view on how kespa is and why it does what it does, though I can't say I'm an expert having only so much experience with it so far, but I think the views mostly about it are some what narrowminded and one dimensional but mostly I think that's in kespas fault not being transparent enough in their actions and not having communicated enough to public.
The thing that need to be clear is : will Kespa transmit foreign invites to teams ? If yes, then no problem. If they claim they never had any contact when they had, problem. They say IPL never contacted them in this press release.
On December 01 2012 02:35 achan1058 wrote: Samsung should join ESF and be done with it, to be perfectly honest.
Because ESF membership has so many benefits that a company like Samsung would "join it".
Yes it does, at least it's not a sinking ship. KeSPA is dying. Leave the sinking ship.
only the SC2 side is dying
Is Najin in KeSPA? Azubu probably isn't, and CJ Entus last time I check was even worse than IM"s team. It's not like KeSPA actually has a real grip on LoL.
KT Rolster's 2nd team is on top of the OGN league right now (although they really just picked up StarTale's disbanded team).
lol...... StarTale made a real mistake there, then. They should have negotiated harder with Red Bull or something, but it isn't news that ST coach is prone to make mistakes.
On December 01 2012 04:12 MrCon wrote: The thing that need to be clear is : will Kespa transmit foreign invites to teams ? If yes, then no problem. If they claim they never had any contact when they had, problem. They say IPL never contacted them in this press release.
KeSPA is board of team owners, what do you think? If KeSPA knows, team owners know.
For example, team 8 is sponsored by KeSPA, but basically it is the other 7 teams providing support for them. Just like New Orlean Hornets.
On December 01 2012 03:45 Markwerf wrote: This whole stuff is retarded, Kespa is a completely unneccesary organisation that needlessly complicates communication and the like.
Seems perfectly logical to me. It does help their schedule and if the big leagues cooperated more like this it would probably benefit all the players in the future. If you contact the heads of the leagues and work out any scheduling prior to invites it prevents any cases where a player needs to pick between tournaments such as when Rain left GSL to compete in MLG.
There's so many retarded posts in this thread it's ridiculous. Kespa is the governing entity over "their" teams. It's their league and their players therefore attendance for Kespa events is critical as it would be the same for any other sport. Imagine Kobe Bryant going overseas to Europe to play in some tournament while his team is playing in the regular season in the United States. Even if the team managers were cool with it, the NBA committee wouldn't be because prior approval wasn't granted. I don't see anything wrong here as the whole approval thing is about scheduling. Kespa manages the players and asking to know the who, what, when, and where before approving it is not a bad thing like a lot of these posts are making it out to be.
On December 01 2012 03:45 Markwerf wrote: This whole stuff is retarded, Kespa is a completely unneccesary organisation that needlessly complicates communication and the like.
KeSPA is the only reason Jaedong still has a job.
Oh please. If KeSPA doesn't keep Jaedong paid, ESF or foreign teams will gladly pick him up.
On December 01 2012 03:45 Markwerf wrote: This whole stuff is retarded, Kespa is a completely unneccesary organisation that needlessly complicates communication and the like.
KeSPA is the only reason Jaedong still has a job.
Oh please. If KeSPA doesn't keep Jaedong paid, ESF or foreign teams will gladly pick him up.
and give him some place 2 eat and sleep and practice? :D great.
On December 01 2012 03:45 Markwerf wrote: This whole stuff is retarded, Kespa is a completely unneccesary organisation that needlessly complicates communication and the like.
KeSPA is the only reason Jaedong still has a job.
Oh please. If KeSPA doesn't keep Jaedong paid, ESF or foreign teams will gladly pick him up.
Kespa chose to do that before ESF was even established.
On December 01 2012 04:38 ArvickHero wrote: KeSPA wants outsider leagues to negotiate with KeSPA directly so there's no conflict with OSL or PL .. uhh what's the problem here again?
That's what I'm saying dog. There shouldn't be a Problem here. People are making something out of nothing.
On December 01 2012 03:45 Markwerf wrote: This whole stuff is retarded, Kespa is a completely unneccesary organisation that needlessly complicates communication and the like.
KeSPA is the only reason Jaedong still has a job.
Oh please. If KeSPA doesn't keep Jaedong paid, ESF or foreign teams will gladly pick him up.
On December 01 2012 03:45 Markwerf wrote: This whole stuff is retarded, Kespa is a completely unneccesary organisation that needlessly complicates communication and the like.
KeSPA is the only reason Jaedong still has a job.
Oh please. If KeSPA doesn't keep Jaedong paid, ESF or foreign teams will gladly pick him up.
Jaedong earns more than all eSF combined.
Jaedong can retire.
Not that he wants to, but my point is he certainly has enough money to live on for quite a while.
Ignoring whether KeSPA's policies are ideal, whenever they're stated like this, it helps create a peaceful, coordinated SC2 ecosystem. Only when KeSPA's cards are on the table should we spend much effort on getting it to play nicely with the rest of the scene. Another card is on the table now, so I see that as a good thing.
On December 01 2012 02:18 Antisocialmunky wrote: Kespa is destroying esports by depriving it of needless drama and putting out a reasonable statement. :p
This is madness! What a joke, first Kespa generates much drama and creates much controversy, and now they don't? They can't even stick to their policies or methodologies! How dare they respond to criticism from the community and approve on themselves as an organization?
Everything KeSPA said is perfectly reasonable. Their players are bound by much bigger sponsor contracts than anyone in the eSF or foreign scene, so obviously Proleague and OSL have to be their priorities. They're just saying that they need approval from the sponsor board to go to foreign events.
On December 01 2012 04:38 ArvickHero wrote: KeSPA wants outsider leagues to negotiate with KeSPA directly so there's no conflict with OSL or PL .. uhh what's the problem here again?
People like useless drama. I think Kespa Claim is quite logical.
On December 01 2012 03:45 Markwerf wrote: This whole stuff is retarded, Kespa is a completely unneccesary organisation that needlessly complicates communication and the like.
KeSPA is the only reason Jaedong still has a job.
Oh please. If KeSPA doesn't keep Jaedong paid, ESF or foreign teams will gladly pick him up.
another kespa team would buy him 100% in the event that t8 disbanded. it's not like foreign teams have the money to buy jaedong to begin with, EG would literally have to release every other sc2 player on their team to afford him.
On December 01 2012 02:27 opisska wrote: I am thinking more and more that the right response of the world is to just start ignoring KeSPA and their players altogether. So you wanna have your nice closed leagues with your private superstars? Cool. We can have fun without you.
Which means growing local talent, but everyone wants to see the best players ...
I'm with KeSPA on this one. IPL's parent company is owned by Rupert Murdoc. Man is known for his business prowess (read: cutthroat ) I too would be nervous and cautious if I were KeSPA.
But I think KeSPA really needed to do this sooner. Release a formal statement regarding their player policies, etc. ahead of time in anticipation of other tournaments/companies throwing them under the bus. Tsk Tsk. Poor business sense.
Say what you want about Kespa, but at least they're putting the reputation of the organization, leagues and teams first. It's no different than what any other pro sports organization would (and does) do.
In many ways, it would make more sense if there were other organizations that represented players and teams like this. It would make for a better overall scene.
Am I the only one who just wants KeSPA to die quickly? I don't get why people adore them so much, they're full of drama, full of bullshit, and always think they're in the right.
On December 01 2012 07:18 Jamial wrote: Am I the only one who just wants KeSPA to die quickly? I don't get why people adore them so much, they're full of drama, full of bullshit, and always think they're in the right.
so you have hundreds of pros without a job? and most likely insta kill SC2 in korea? sure.
but the fact that people see drama or whatever in this. just shows that people only blindly hate them.
Sounds reasonable. This helps avoid schedule conflicts with OSL and especially with Proleague, which will have an extremely rigorous schedule that will be impacted by the plethora of international tournaments that are constantly occurring. If everything is organized and discussed thoroughly in time beforehand, we may avoid situations like Rain falling out of Code S for MLG.
On December 01 2012 07:18 Jamial wrote: Am I the only one who just wants KeSPA to die quickly? I don't get why people adore them so much, they're full of drama, full of bullshit, and always think they're in the right.
Most of the time people hate on Kespa, not agree with them, so you're wrong on the adoration bit. Second, any successful sprots league has an organization that has rules that may on the outside (or even inside) seem draconian but overall are necessary to help the sport thrive. Kespa has at least shown that they can play that necessary evil successfully.
On December 01 2012 07:18 Jamial wrote: Am I the only one who just wants KeSPA to die quickly? I don't get why people adore them so much, they're full of drama, full of bullshit, and always think they're in the right.
Compared to the esf which has never been involved in any drama *COUGH NASL COUGH* of *COUGH everything involving Slayers ever COUGH* course.
The entire esports scene is a dramafest of epic proporitions. Kespa is comparitively quiet. When's the last time you heard of Kespa managers bitching out their players in public (which is to say, in media such as twitter etc.)?
On December 01 2012 03:18 Mirhi wrote: Though we have gone through several avenues in speaking to KeSPA, we have been unsuccessful in reaching KeSPA in the past. Now we have their attention we would like to extend the invitation again. We welcome KeSPA players in all IPL events, present and future.
I'm sorry, but how can one organization be "uncessfull in reaching" another organization. Don't organizations have like... communication people that are responsible for reaching and being reached? Either Kespa is plain out lying and IPL does not want to name&shame to keep future participation possibilities, or IPL has really failed with engaging in communication.
I personally really dislike KeSpa, and get a strong vibe of them always vying for status/power at too high of collateral costs. I hope as eSports is becoming dependent on the 'west' (incl. Europe), that KeSpa is forced to adapt or become obsolete.
So. KESPA is the bad guy for making sure their players are prepared and NOT jet lagged so their league is as good as possible? Clearly, I am killing eSports. Shame on me.
im alittle confused.. if the kespa statement is true why is there so much hate towards kespa? they stated clearly that they werent contacted about participation? can some one please explain to me how this is cause hate towards them?
On December 01 2012 08:29 psychotics wrote: im alittle confused.. if the kespa statement is true why is there so much hate towards kespa? they stated clearly that they werent contacted about participation? can some one please explain to me how this is cause hate towards them?
cause like always. people just hate KeSPA for the sake of hating them.
On December 01 2012 08:29 psychotics wrote: im alittle confused.. if the kespa statement is true why is there so much hate towards kespa? they stated clearly that they werent contacted about participation? can some one please explain to me how this is cause hate towards them?
in this particular thread, the complaints and hate are spoken by naive/ignorant haters. no need to be confused, either join the hate wagon which entertains me and the likes or just ignore those posts.
seriously though, the way kespa relates with any outside organization is stupider than jr high couples. they are always such babies about everything, they never want to talk directly and are always on some HE SAID, SHE SAID kinda shit. i hope that as sc2 grows that they will stop being such wusses about everything, it would be great for the game, not having to deal with tremendous talents missing out on so many opportunities just because kespa wants to flex their muscles in front of everyones faces.
i guess IPL could have tried a little harder, but kespa shouldn't make the people trying to give them opportunities chase them and jump through hoops just to talk to them, ridiculous.
Hmm. Seems fair to me. Good on Kespa to release this.
On December 01 2012 08:34 urbaNo wrote: puro pinche chisme on this forum.
seriously though, the way kespa relates with any outside organization is stupider than jr high couples. they are always such babies about everything, they never want to talk directly and are always on some HE SAID, SHE SAID kinda shit. i hope that as sc2 grows that they will stop being such wusses about everything, it would be great for the game, not having to deal with tremendous talents missing out on so many opportunities just because kespa wants to flex their muscles in front of everyones faces.
i guess IPL could have tried a little harder, but kespa shouldn't make the people trying to give them opportunities chase them and jump through hoops just to talk to them, ridiculous.
What hoops? If what they said is true, IPL did not contact Kespa directly period.
On December 01 2012 08:34 urbaNo wrote: puro pinche chisme on this forum.
seriously though, the way kespa relates with any outside organization is stupider than jr high couples. they are always such babies about everything, they never want to talk directly and are always on some HE SAID, SHE SAID kinda shit. i hope that as sc2 grows that they will stop being such wusses about everything, it would be great for the game, not having to deal with tremendous talents missing out on so many opportunities just because kespa wants to flex their muscles in front of everyones faces.
i guess IPL could have tried a little harder, but kespa shouldn't make the people trying to give them opportunities chase them and jump through hoops just to talk to them, ridiculous.
How is it stupider than jr high couples? Their statement basically is as cut and dry business as you can get in pretty much any sector.
They aren't making anyone jump through hoops or anything. They are saying if you want participation from their work force, you should talk to their head office and not the individual team. To steal from a previous post, it is like if I worked for a company and was the best in the business, another business should talk to my boss if it is possible for me to go work for you on a contractual basis. If my boss is okay with it because it doesn't get in the way of my own work...then no problem. If it gets in the way of my obligations to my paid job...then it'll be denied. You don't go straight to the employee that is under contract.
On December 01 2012 07:05 plogamer wrote: I'm with KeSPA on this one. IPL's parent company is owned by Rupert Murdoc. Man is known for his business prowess (read: cutthroat ) I too would be nervous and cautious if I were KeSPA.
that's not how business works in the real world. For some reason I don't think IPL is trying to scam money out of kespa..
i dont really get it... technically bogus/innovation was there for the GSL ro4, and IPL5 open bracket was just a bonus to him, did IPL5 even "invited" bogus to play in their tournament?
On December 01 2012 03:45 Markwerf wrote: This whole stuff is retarded, Kespa is a completely unneccesary organisation that needlessly complicates communication and the like.
KeSPA is the only reason Jaedong still has a job.
Oh please. If KeSPA doesn't keep Jaedong paid, ESF or foreign teams will gladly pick him up.
another kespa team would buy him 100% in the event that t8 disbanded. it's not like foreign teams have the money to buy jaedong to begin with, EG would literally have to release every other sc2 player on their team to afford him.
Lololol I love how people speak with such certainty on things they literally have 0 clue on
On December 01 2012 07:05 plogamer wrote: I'm with KeSPA on this one. IPL's parent company is owned by Rupert Murdoc. Man is known for his business prowess (read: cutthroat ) I too would be nervous and cautious if I were KeSPA.
that's not how business works in the real world. For some reason I don't think IPL is trying to scam money out of kespa..
Never said anything about scams. Just that IPL will do what it needs with no regard to KeSPA's interests, which is fair. And that KeSPA is right to protect its own interests.
well kespa ónly hurting their player by too many useless restirctions. overall there are enough koreans at ipl so not that big of a deal if only flash would have been there...
On December 01 2012 09:41 RyF wrote: well kespa ónly hurting their player by too many useless restirctions. overall there are enough koreans at ipl so not that big of a deal if only flash would have been there...
Last Time i checked, BW was runnin for good 10 years, while in the West we already failed to run an eSport- like events in the past, so I think your point is useless.
On December 01 2012 03:45 Markwerf wrote: This whole stuff is retarded, Kespa is a completely unneccesary organisation that needlessly complicates communication and the like.
KeSPA is the only reason Jaedong still has a job.
Oh please. If KeSPA doesn't keep Jaedong paid, ESF or foreign teams will gladly pick him up.
another kespa team would buy him 100% in the event that t8 disbanded. it's not like foreign teams have the money to buy jaedong to begin with, EG would literally have to release every other sc2 player on their team to afford him.
Lololol I love how people speak with such certainty on things they literally have 0 clue on
Well, I still kinda believe that EG has more money than some teams in KesPA (Woongjin comes to my mind).
On December 01 2012 09:41 RyF wrote: well kespa ónly hurting their player by too many useless restirctions. overall there are enough koreans at ipl so not that big of a deal if only flash would have been there...
Last Time i checked, BW was runnin for good 10 years, while in the West we already failed to run an eSport- like events in the past, so I think your point is useless.
I don't agree, it's different times, and LoL is growing everywhere to way bigger scale than BW ever did in the west. The Koreans need to expand their mindset, need to accept that they actually have to deal and respect these foreign companies. Yes, I said LoL, this is an SC2 thread, but the argument is the same.
On December 01 2012 09:50 fuzzylogic44 wrote: I thought MLG had exclusivity on Kespa players in foreign tournaments anyway?
Now, it is clear from this statement and Bogus in IPL, they are not exclusive.
I don't see this as clear at all. The deal was publicly announced, so I have trouble believing everyone was just lying. They're allowed to send people to other tournaments - it's just that they need MLG's permission to do so. I think this statement is mostly just a way to seem reasonable. I think you'll get nice cooperation on some tournaments, but IPL (which is the most directly competing with MLG) probably has very little shot.
On December 01 2012 03:45 Markwerf wrote: This whole stuff is retarded, Kespa is a completely unneccesary organisation that needlessly complicates communication and the like.
KeSPA is the only reason Jaedong still has a job.
Oh please. If KeSPA doesn't keep Jaedong paid, ESF or foreign teams will gladly pick him up.
another kespa team would buy him 100% in the event that t8 disbanded. it's not like foreign teams have the money to buy jaedong to begin with, EG would literally have to release every other sc2 player on their team to afford him.
Lololol I love how people speak with such certainty on things they literally have 0 clue on
On December 01 2012 07:18 Jamial wrote: Am I the only one who just wants KeSPA to die quickly? I don't get why people adore them so much, they're full of drama, full of bullshit, and always think they're in the right.
Compared to the esf which has never been involved in any drama *COUGH NASL COUGH* of *COUGH everything involving Slayers ever COUGH* course.
The entire esports scene is a dramafest of epic proporitions. Kespa is comparitively quiet. When's the last time you heard of Kespa managers bitching out their players in public (which is to say, in media such as twitter etc.)?
Dear, would you like me to make you some chicken noodle soup? I think you may be coming down with a cold.
On December 01 2012 03:45 Markwerf wrote: This whole stuff is retarded, Kespa is a completely unneccesary organisation that needlessly complicates communication and the like.
KeSPA is the only reason Jaedong still has a job.
Oh please. If KeSPA doesn't keep Jaedong paid, ESF or foreign teams will gladly pick him up.
another kespa team would buy him 100% in the event that t8 disbanded. it's not like foreign teams have the money to buy jaedong to begin with, EG would literally have to release every other sc2 player on their team to afford him.
Lololol I love how people speak with such certainty on things they literally have 0 clue on
Well, I still kinda believe that EG has more money than some teams in KesPA (Woongjin comes to my mind).
On December 01 2012 03:45 Markwerf wrote: This whole stuff is retarded, Kespa is a completely unneccesary organisation that needlessly complicates communication and the like.
KeSPA is the only reason Jaedong still has a job.
Oh please. If KeSPA doesn't keep Jaedong paid, ESF or foreign teams will gladly pick him up.
another kespa team would buy him 100% in the event that t8 disbanded. it's not like foreign teams have the money to buy jaedong to begin with, EG would literally have to release every other sc2 player on their team to afford him.
Lololol I love how people speak with such certainty on things they literally have 0 clue on
Lololol I love how people who are in the know literally say nothing.
Leave us to speculation unless you want to say something definite.
On December 01 2012 03:45 Markwerf wrote: This whole stuff is retarded, Kespa is a completely unneccesary organisation that needlessly complicates communication and the like.
KeSPA is the only reason Jaedong still has a job.
Oh please. If KeSPA doesn't keep Jaedong paid, ESF or foreign teams will gladly pick him up.
another kespa team would buy him 100% in the event that t8 disbanded. it's not like foreign teams have the money to buy jaedong to begin with, EG would literally have to release every other sc2 player on their team to afford him.
Lololol I love how people speak with such certainty on things they literally have 0 clue on
On December 01 2012 09:50 fuzzylogic44 wrote: I thought MLG had exclusivity on Kespa players in foreign tournaments anyway?
Now, it is clear from this statement and Bogus in IPL, they are not exclusive.
I don't see this as clear at all. The deal was publicly announced, so I have trouble believing everyone was just lying. They're allowed to send people to other tournaments - it's just that they need MLG's permission to do so. I think this statement is mostly just a way to seem reasonable. I think you'll get nice cooperation on some tournaments, but IPL (which is the most directly competing with MLG) probably has very little shot.
from what i understand, people assumed kespa-mlg lock, apparently there isnt one
I don't see what the big deal is... You didn't get to see KeSPA players at IPL.. Okay then enjoy watching the bunch of people that are playing. Goodness.
Sounds like bullshit to me. I really hope that the people who signed these contract read them well,because that's basically lifting the finger to freedom.
This is a very korean approach,i can't understand that as an european.
I don't see the issue with thisat all. If I ran kespa I would have the same policies. I put money into a league and teams, and I'll make sure I protect that league. The players are free to go so long as there is good notice and the scheduling can be arranged. What the fuck is wrong with that? I swear people who weren't even around in brood war jump on the kespas evil band wagon and say stupid shit like these posts.
I know Kespa is right in this. But the scene doesn't work around Kespa. I feel this kind of route for esports hurts it. Kespa has every right to do this but as the fans. I still haven't seen any Kespa players other then in the GSL or MLG. I do not intend to purchase their ticket for vods either. I've bought gsl every season since release and paying for both just seems like a lot. Many sc2 players have been gsl fans and Kespa is hiding their players away, it helps them improve but they remain in the shadows. Kespa really needs to step up and be more friendly also to be taking the initiative to get players in these tournaments. I would be curious to see how low the foreign viewer numbers hold up for them since anytime someone says Kespa we all go "whats the problem this time?"
On December 01 2012 11:46 MateShade wrote: I don't see the issue with thisat all. If I ran kespa I would have the same policies. I put money into a league and teams, and I'll make sure I protect that league. The players are free to go so long as there is good notice and the scheduling can be arranged. What the fuck is wrong with that? I swear people who weren't even around in brood war jump on the kespas evil band wagon and say stupid shit like these posts.
Agreed. There is nothing incriminating about their statement.
I feel weird saying this, but it's more plausible to me that the foreign community went off half-cocked than that kespa is full of shit.
On December 01 2012 07:18 Jamial wrote: Am I the only one who just wants KeSPA to die quickly? I don't get why people adore them so much, they're full of drama, full of bullshit, and always think they're in the right.
so you have hundreds of pros without a job? and most likely insta kill SC2 in korea? sure.
but the fact that people see drama or whatever in this. just shows that people only blindly hate them.
sc2 would be fine without kespa. was fine for 2 years haha
On December 01 2012 11:46 MateShade wrote: I don't see the issue with thisat all. If I ran kespa I would have the same policies. I put money into a league and teams, and I'll make sure I protect that league. The players are free to go so long as there is good notice and the scheduling can be arranged. What the fuck is wrong with that? I swear people who weren't even around in brood war jump on the kespas evil band wagon and say stupid shit like these posts.
Agreed. There is nothing incriminating about their statement.
I feel weird saying this, but it's more plausible to me that the foreign community went off half-cocked than that kespa is full of shit.
Yeah, I need to go shower now.
As a fan of brood, I also took it badly that they dropped my game and switched totally for sc2. It's not that surprising that they go hated by the foreign community by applying their strict regulation, but men, they created e-sport you know... SC2 shouldn't ignore KeSPA, but instead create KeSPA-like association to protect the players' rights because that's the only way you make people become from geeky kids to real pro.
On December 01 2012 12:27 IamZieK wrote: I know Kespa is right in this. But the scene doesn't work around Kespa. I feel this kind of route for esports hurts it. Kespa has every right to do this but as the fans. I still haven't seen any Kespa players other then in the GSL or MLG. I do not intend to purchase their ticket for vods either. I've bought gsl every season since release and paying for both just seems like a lot. Many sc2 players have been gsl fans and Kespa is hiding their players away, it helps them improve but they remain in the shadows. Kespa really needs to step up and be more friendly also to be taking the initiative to get players in these tournaments. I would be curious to see how low the foreign viewer numbers hold up for them since anytime someone says Kespa we all go "whats the problem this time?"
Kespa is also heavily invested in their own leagues, which if nothing else get to play the "we were here first" card. Satisfying fans' curiosity about their hyped players by sending them out to foreign events in droves is just bad business.
Since you haven't payed for (the impressively inexpensive) OSL, you're kind of proving their point. You can just watch GSL and see the best kespa has to offer and that's fine, right? From their standpoint, that's lost business. It's a fine line between advertising your content in other events and just giving up your market to the competition.
But more importantly, at least to me, they have a culture they want to protect. That, and they have become uncharacteristically cooperative, civil, and transparent since the sc2 transition. Not that I'd use them as a roll model for any of those things, but considering where they've come from? I'm happy to fork up the extra cash as a vote of confidence.
And about the whole hurting esports thing, if you can't afford it you can't afford it. I've been there (didn't watch a lot of gsl vods in college), and no one should feel bad about it. But nothing hurts esports more than fans who aren't willing to purchase content. + Show Spoiler +
Except maybe fans who send torch and pitchfork emails to sponsors. :p
Just saying, IPL is not the the MLG IEM Dreamhack partnership but IPL 5 has the most good plyers and they also have the backing of GOM... This is a weird standoff and i feel they should just all work together in some way or another
I wonder what would happen if there was a tournament with a $500,000 + grand prize, and that tournament didn't even bother contacting Kespa, and refused to deal with Kespa. The response from the teams and the players would be very interesting.
On December 01 2012 11:46 shid0x wrote: Sounds like bullshit to me. I really hope that the people who signed these contract read them well,because that's basically lifting the finger to freedom.
This is a very korean approach,i can't understand that as an european.
because like nada got 600k for 2-3 years flash jangbi fantasy etc, they get like the 10 times as much money as any non kespa team would pay
kespa has right and power because its where the money is
On December 01 2012 11:46 shid0x wrote: This is a very korean approach,i can't understand that as an european.
You can't understand how professional sports and associations work in Europe? -_-
There's nothing "Korean" about this at all. Kespa as an association is just operating on a more organized and serious level compared to the west, a level much closer to how professional sports work.
It's insane to demand that players should be able to choose the tournaments they play in and manage their own work time while contracted to a professional team.
On December 01 2012 22:42 Liquid`Ret wrote: I doubt that Kespa players could even play in IPL. The MLG and Kespa partnership is still valid. One of the 2 would block it from happening.
Yeah, I thought that Kespa players were not allowed to participate in international events that weren't MLG. I guess there was an exception for players with automatic qualification, which is why Bogus could play. The statement says that Kespa didn't need to be approached regarding inviting Bogus because he qualified automatically but didn't explain why this didn't conflict with their MLG partnership, but I presume the reason is similar.
But if Kespa has an agreement with MLG then why not just state that here? They explain how they want non-Kespa tournaments to go about inviting/negotiating with Kespa players, but even if IGN had approached Kespa would they have got any answer besides "Not possible"?
I don't want to make any judgements on this yet. All I know is that Kespa claim they were never approached by IGN while Mirhi says otherwise.
On December 01 2012 03:18 Mirhi wrote: Though we have gone through several avenues in speaking to KeSPA, we have been unsuccessful in reaching KeSPA in the past. Now we have their attention we would like to extend the invitation again. We welcome KeSPA players in all IPL events, present and future.
I don't know if I should take Mirhi's post as an official statement from IGN or not though. Whatever the case may be, I hope Kespa comes to an agreement with other tournament organisers.
On December 01 2012 03:45 Markwerf wrote: This whole stuff is retarded, Kespa is a completely unneccesary organisation that needlessly complicates communication and the like.
KeSPA is the only reason Jaedong still has a job.
Oh please. If KeSPA doesn't keep Jaedong paid, ESF or foreign teams will gladly pick him up.
another kespa team would buy him 100% in the event that t8 disbanded. it's not like foreign teams have the money to buy jaedong to begin with, EG would literally have to release every other sc2 player on their team to afford him.
EG has a lot of money. They just gave incontrol a raise. I'm sure if they can afford that, they have some money left over for jaedong.
I wonder when some of the kespa player contracts expire and if they will stay on kespa or seek esf/foreign opportunity. I could especially see the latter happening.
On December 03 2012 18:15 Daswollvieh wrote: I wonder when some of the kespa player contracts expire and if they will stay on kespa or seek esf/foreign opportunity. I could especially see the latter happening.
I'm just gonna wait for someone else to jump on you. Have been pretty inactive in following starcraft and TL these days. I log on to see something about kespa under SC2 general, click on it, start reading some posts and very quickly find extreme difficulty in deciding which opinion to take seriously.
On December 03 2012 18:15 Daswollvieh wrote: I wonder when some of the kespa player contracts expire and if they will stay on kespa or seek esf/foreign opportunity. I could especially see the latter happening.
As long as Kespa teams still have those huge sponsors behind them i doubt many will even think of leaving Kespa. With the exeption of B team players and rare exceptions. Then again that already happend in some way when Sc2 was released so i doubt much will change unless the money goes away or somewhere else.
As long as they keep showing them the money. I don't see the big names leaving anytime soon. Foreign teams would be able to get a steal on the not so big names like Sea.
If you aren't a top guy (kind of weird to say because it's a different game) you aren't making a whole lot either way. At least we'll see more competitive salaries now. If the KeSPA teams don't want to pony up the dough then someone else will.
KeSPA's still in good standing though as the guy right above said. They have the money. It's just a question of do they want to drop more money into it is the question.
On December 01 2012 03:45 Markwerf wrote: This whole stuff is retarded, Kespa is a completely unneccesary organisation that needlessly complicates communication and the like.
KeSPA is the only reason Jaedong still has a job.
Oh please. If KeSPA doesn't keep Jaedong paid, ESF or foreign teams will gladly pick him up.
another kespa team would buy him 100% in the event that t8 disbanded. it's not like foreign teams have the money to buy jaedong to begin with, EG would literally have to release every other sc2 player on their team to afford him.
Lololol I love how people speak with such certainty on things they literally have 0 clue on
On December 01 2012 03:45 Markwerf wrote: This whole stuff is retarded, Kespa is a completely unneccesary organisation that needlessly complicates communication and the like.
KeSPA is the only reason Jaedong still has a job.
Oh please. If KeSPA doesn't keep Jaedong paid, ESF or foreign teams will gladly pick him up.
another kespa team would buy him 100% in the event that t8 disbanded. it's not like foreign teams have the money to buy jaedong to begin with, EG would literally have to release every other sc2 player on their team to afford him.
Lololol I love how people speak with such certainty on things they literally have 0 clue on
On December 01 2012 03:45 Markwerf wrote: This whole stuff is retarded, Kespa is a completely unneccesary organisation that needlessly complicates communication and the like.
KeSPA is the only reason Jaedong still has a job.
Oh please. If KeSPA doesn't keep Jaedong paid, ESF or foreign teams will gladly pick him up.
another kespa team would buy him 100% in the event that t8 disbanded. it's not like foreign teams have the money to buy jaedong to begin with, EG would literally have to release every other sc2 player on their team to afford him.
On December 01 2012 03:45 Markwerf wrote: This whole stuff is retarded, Kespa is a completely unneccesary organisation that needlessly complicates communication and the like.
KeSPA is the only reason Jaedong still has a job.
Oh please. If KeSPA doesn't keep Jaedong paid, ESF or foreign teams will gladly pick him up.
another kespa team would buy him 100% in the event that t8 disbanded. it's not like foreign teams have the money to buy jaedong to begin with, EG would literally have to release every other sc2 player on their team to afford him.
Lololol I love how people speak with such certainty on things they literally have 0 clue on
EPT
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