Jeffrey “Sjow” Brusi has been suspended without pay for a 30 days period. This decision was made by Eclypsia following the player’s breach of trust.
We are very sorry for the inconvenience it may cause but we feel strongly about punishing a player who has not honored any of the commitments he had signed up for. As you may have noticed (or unnoticed actually), Sjow has been absent from the European scene since he has joined Eclypsia. He has only played few tournaments and we can’t but regret his lack of results and motivation. Some may for example remember his elimination from the Battle at Ministry of Win in August right from the first group stage on a 0-2/1-4 score.
Sjow asked Eclypsia to have him join the Ministry of Win in September 2012. He had then committed to increase his gaming level and be more visible online. He was indeed supposed to stream his trainings.
We are today very sorry to admit none of these commitments were or are being honored. We really wish for this period to be enough to receive from our player a satisfying answer. We still hope to see Sjow at the top very soon.
Ruurk's statement:
Sjow at the moment is not playing SC2. This means we cannot pay him for being a SC2 player. If SjoW wants to come back and play we will be glad to continue. If he doesn't however he will not be a paid member of Eclypsia. We believe we can resolve the issue so at the moment we have just ordered a suspension rather than removal. If SjoW wants to leave the team he is free to go. If he wants to return he is more than welcome but as it stands we cannot pay somebody who is not playing the game they are paid for.
Whatever. I don't even see the need to make this public. Why don't you keep internal problems on the inside and not use this as an excuse to try and gain EC some publicity. Your public relations needs some training as we've seen in the past, and now present. Someone get a hold of Incontrol.
Jeffrey “Sjow” Brusi has been suspended without pay for a 30 days period. This decision was made by Eclypsia following the player’s breach of trust.
We are very sorry for the inconvenience it may cause but we feel strongly about punishing a player who has not honored any of the commitments he had signed up for. As you may have noticed (or unnoticed actually), Sjow has been absent from the European scene since he has joined Eclypsia. He has only played few tournaments and we can’t but regret his lack of results and motivation. Some may for example remember his elimination from the Battle at Ministry of Win in August right from the first group stage on a 0-2/1-4 score.
Sjow asked Eclypsia to have him join the Ministry of Win in September 2012. He had then committed to increase his gaming level and be more visible online. He was indeed supposed to stream his trainings.
We are today very sorry to admit none of these commitments were or are being honored. We really wish for this period to be enough to receive from our player a satisfying answer. We still hope to see Sjow at the top very soon.
Wants results... reads a bit further and see they are mad he didn't stream his training...
Jeffrey “Sjow” Brusi has been suspended without pay for a 30 days period. This decision was made by Eclypsia following the player’s breach of trust.
We are very sorry for the inconvenience it may cause but we feel strongly about punishing a player who has not honored any of the commitments he had signed up for. As you may have noticed (or unnoticed actually), Sjow has been absent from the European scene since he has joined Eclypsia. He has only played few tournaments and we can’t but regret his lack of results and motivation. Some may for example remember his elimination from the Battle at Ministry of Win in August right from the first group stage on a 0-2/1-4 score.
Sjow asked Eclypsia to have him join the Ministry of Win in September 2012. He had then committed to increase his gaming level and be more visible online. He was indeed supposed to stream his trainings.
We are today very sorry to admit none of these commitments were or are being honored. We really wish for this period to be enough to receive from our player a satisfying answer. We still hope to see Sjow at the top very soon.
Wants results... reads a bit further and see they are mad he didn't stream his training...
Well that's part of the contract you subscribe in order to live in the MoW. We'll have to wait for Sjow's statement though.
Hmm... Did you really need to air everything out like that?
You basically said: "This guy has been so bad and lazy since we signed him, so we're not paying him for a month".
Considering your PR history and the tone of of this announcement, all it seems to me is that you guys noticed how much attention the Stephano post is getting, and your PR guy of course decided that it would be a good idea to try something similar. It gives you an excuse not to pay your players too, so what a brilliant plan.
Keep it up Eclypsia, you never fail to live up to your reputations.
On October 24 2012 01:34 FuriousGool wrote: This team... my god.
Tbh, the team is really improving, and Sjow did not do anything relevant in the past months.
Doesn't change the fact that anything posted about Eclypsia or regarding Eclypsia has NEVER been good or positive. Aside from their opening post about the launch of the team :/
Sjow suspended because he's not good enough? Can you even do that? If a player doesn't perform it doesn't really matter, you signed the contract, you have to eat the cost. If you don't think he's good enough than release him after the contract expires, but suspending him because of poor results is not good enough grounds to not honour your contract.
learn to read dudes. he is suspended for not participating in any tournament, for not streaming, for not going to ministry of win house.... he doesn't even try. you can't pay a player who is afk, that's retarded.
On October 24 2012 01:44 soiii wrote: "Our player does no perform, so lets just suspend him and bash him in an official statement" - Eclypsia surely stays the biggest joke team out there.
If he's lazy and bad then he should be thankful that it is only a suspension.
More teams should do this IMO. So many contracted players just sit on their ass waiting for divine intervention to give them "teh skills".
Wow publically suspending their own player in public with something that could just be handled internally... I feel bad for Sjow. If hes having motivation problems, suspending him won't help things.
Is it not brutal to suspend a progamer considering majority of them if not all of them except 2-3 koreans at best do not make all that much money?
I understand agreements and such but 30 days without any pay in a field that already pays peanuts and a glass of water is pretty rough, hard to motivate people that way
Should be reworded, suspending a player for not showing poorly is sketchy, but I can't say it's completely unreasonable. However if you're going to announce a suspension, I would probably leave out the parts that are debatable if you have other, more mainstream reasons. For instance: Not streaming to prove an increased practice routine, if it was part of an agreement, is a considerably more reasonable explanation for a suspension.
Aside from creating publicity, I don't see any reason to announce a suspension unless it was brought upon by negative actions that need to be addressed by the player and/or management. Just creates more bad blood unnecessarily.
On October 24 2012 01:47 Tyree wrote: Is it not brutal to suspend a progamer considering majority of them if not all of them except 2-3 koreans at best do not make all that much money?
I understand agreements and such but 30 days without any pay in a field that already pays peanuts and a glass of water is pretty rough, hard to motivate people that way
The reverse is also true: If there's not much money to go around then sitting on your ass and not respecting commitments makes it a lot worse of an offense.
You want your players to stream their training, well that's a bad decision, Mr. Eclypsia. That's all I have to say about this. Unless your so-called training is mindless laddering.
@Sjow: you've become a puppet, man. Really unfortunate.
On October 24 2012 01:47 Insoleet wrote: learn to read dudes. he is suspended for not participating in any tournament, for not streaming, for not going to ministry of win house.... he doesn't even try. you can't pay a player who is afk, that's retarded.
Correct. Work on reading comprehension people. He's not being suspended for losing tournaments (LOL) he's being suspended because he agreed to be more active, and he isn't. If you tell your employer you're going to do something, and then you don't, you're not going to get paid. Simple as that.
edit: I don't necessarily agree with airing it out in public, but don't get the reasons wrong. I mean, yeah, it's Eclypsia, but try not and judge them too hard lol
On October 24 2012 01:34 FuriousGool wrote: This team... my god.
Tbh, the team is really improving, and Sjow did not do anything relevant in the past months.
Doesn't change the fact that anything posted about Eclypsia or regarding Eclypsia has NEVER been good or positive. Aside from their opening post about the launch of the team :/
Hmmm yeah fair point. In Eclypsia's position, suspending a player might be useless and only bad press yeah.
The problem is if they handle that internally Sjow can always come out and say hey they don't pay me like they are supposed to and they gonna look really bad even if they explain it like they did now so they were kind of forced to make this public given their reputation.
Regarding the suspension itself I am not sure if it's the right move. Sjow might have not given what he promised (streaming, practicing hard, etc) but I am not sure that you have to suspend him because of that. This should be the last step because it really hurts the relationship between team and player.
The only reason I can see for them doing this is to head off any claims from SjoW that they were not paying him. Or they are preparing for the moment when they have to cut him lose and want to avoid the blow back.
My thoughts on it, is that like, if they didn't post anything, say for instance Sjow makes a post about Eclypsia being shit etc etc and gives a bunch of stats like no pay etc. Then if Eclypsia were to contest it, it would probably look worse on them, so I guess bringing it out in the open just to sort of give them a leg to stand on if things get a bit out of hand. I'm not sure, either way I like Sjow and hope things work out for him.
On October 24 2012 01:47 Insoleet wrote: learn to read dudes. he is suspended for not participating in any tournament, for not streaming, for not going to ministry of win house.... he doesn't even try. you can't pay a player who is afk, that's retarded.
figures, only 3 people in this thread had this outlook on the situation, rather than the more likely "eclypsia is a joke" (which i agree with). 2 were from france.
i guess this is why french businesses in general and rules of contracts in france and between french entities and external entities are a fucking joke. they tolerate shitty behavior. is it a cultural thing in france that businesses are allowed to be fucking jokes and not play by any semblance of rules? i know businesses around the world break rules but they at least have to do it in secret and do get caught/punished. i see people from multiple countries including other europeans disgusted with their behavior.
Posting in tl for publicity for no reason is so unintelligible, u could just post it on your own website and hope someone posts it here, but now it makes you look very bad.
Also I do understand that EC wanted to hire sjow due his past achievements and his fame, but now he has not lived up to the former self at all.
On October 24 2012 01:47 Insoleet wrote: learn to read dudes. he is suspended for not participating in any tournament, for not streaming, for not going to ministry of win house.... he doesn't even try. you can't pay a player who is afk, that's retarded.
Correct. Work on reading comprehension people. He's not being suspended for losing tournaments (LOL) he's being suspended because he agreed to be more active, and he isn't. If you tell your employer you're going to do something, and then you don't, you're not going to get paid. Simple as that.
edit: I don't necessarily agree with airing it out in public, but don't get the reasons wrong. I mean, yeah, it's Eclypsia, but try not and judge them too hard lol
If you feel like that simply cut the ties and don't reveal the reason to the public. Every professional team does that. Hurting the player in such way is just childish.
Agree with this move if true... you deserve what you work for, and if that's nothing, then nothing is what you get. This is not about RESULTS per se, but that he doesn't even seem to be participating from what they're saying. We'll see if Sjow makes any response.
On October 24 2012 01:47 Insoleet wrote: learn to read dudes. he is suspended for not participating in any tournament, for not streaming, for not going to ministry of win house.... he doesn't even try. you can't pay a player who is afk, that's retarded.
Correct. Work on reading comprehension people. He's not being suspended for losing tournaments (LOL) he's being suspended because he agreed to be more active, and he isn't. If you tell your employer you're going to do something, and then you don't, you're not going to get paid. Simple as that.
edit: I don't necessarily agree with airing it out in public, but don't get the reasons wrong. I mean, yeah, it's Eclypsia, but try not and judge them too hard lol
If you feel like that simply cut the ties and don't reveal the reason to the public. Every professional team does that. Hurting the player in such way is just childisch.
The problem is that there is nothing to stop SjoW from bashing them in public if they cut him lose quietly. In a community where the person who speaks first can convince a lot of people that he is right, there is good reason to do this publicly.
I can understand the reasons, but I really don't think it's annoncement worthy. Just suspend him, tell him about it. The community is not tied to this, we don't need to know.
Because it's Eclypsia they're gonna get bashed but if was someone else it'd be alright. Sjow's struck me as the money-hungry type leaving Dignitas in search of a better salary, couldn't find one so he re-signs and then leaves them for greener grass. (not so green now) This is not public-worthy news, should of kept it internal.
On October 24 2012 01:40 imMUTAble787 wrote: Why are you bashing your own player in a public forum ? This does not seem worthy of a post at all.
Yea I don't get this.
The EG / Stephano stuff was damage control and PR. It was already public and they had to do something. This is just... I don't get it. Someone didn't do what they said they would do so you're not paying them for a month? Why is that public information?
Sjow at the moment is not playing SC2. This means we cannot pay him for being a SC2 player. If SjoW wants to come back and play we will be glad to continue. If he doesn't however he will not be a paid member of Eclypsia. We believe we can resolve the issue so at the moment we have just ordered a suspension rather than removal. If SjoW wants to leave the team he is free to go. If he wants to return he is more than welcome but as it stands we cannot pay somebody who is not playing the game they are paid for.
Jeffrey “Sjow” Brusi has been suspended without pay for a 30 days period. This decision was made by Eclypsia following the player’s breach of trust.
We are very sorry for the inconvenience it may cause but we feel strongly about punishing a player who has not honored any of the commitments he had signed up for. As you may have noticed (or unnoticed actually), Sjow has been absent from the European scene since he has joined Eclypsia. He has only played few tournaments and we can’t but regret his lack of results and motivation. Some may for example remember his elimination from the Battle at Ministry of Win in August right from the first group stage on a 0-2/1-4 score.
Sjow asked Eclypsia to have him join the Ministry of Win in September 2012. He had then committed to increase his gaming level and be more visible online. He was indeed supposed to stream his trainings.
We are today very sorry to admit none of these commitments were or are being honored. We really wish for this period to be enough to receive from our player a satisfying answer. We still hope to see Sjow at the top very soon.
Ruurk's statement:
Sjow at the moment is not playing SC2. This means we cannot pay him for being a SC2 player. If SjoW wants to come back and play we will be glad to continue. If he doesn't however he will not be a paid member of Eclypsia. We believe we can resolve the issue so at the moment we have just ordered a suspension rather than removal. If SjoW wants to leave the team he is free to go. If he wants to return he is more than welcome but as it stands we cannot pay somebody who is not playing the game they are paid for.
On October 24 2012 01:40 imMUTAble787 wrote: Why are you bashing your own player in a public forum ? This does not seem worthy of a post at all.
Yea I don't get this.
The EG / Stephano stuff was damage control and PR. It was already public and they had to do something. This is just... I don't get it. Someone didn't do what they said they would do so you're not paying them for a month? Why is that public information?
Jeffrey “Sjow” Brusi has been suspended without pay for a 30 days period. This decision was made by Eclypsia following the player’s breach of trust.
We are very sorry for the inconvenience it may cause but we feel strongly about punishing a player who has not honored any of the commitments he had signed up for. As you may have noticed (or unnoticed actually), Sjow has been absent from the European scene since he has joined Eclypsia. He has only played few tournaments and we can’t but regret his lack of results and motivation. Some may for example remember his elimination from the Battle at Ministry of Win in August right from the first group stage on a 0-2/1-4 score.
Sjow asked Eclypsia to have him join the Ministry of Win in September 2012. He had then committed to increase his gaming level and be more visible online. He was indeed supposed to stream his trainings.
We are today very sorry to admit none of these commitments were or are being honored. We really wish for this period to be enough to receive from our player a satisfying answer. We still hope to see Sjow at the top very soon.
Ruurk's statement:
Sjow at the moment is not playing SC2. This means we cannot pay him for being a SC2 player. If SjoW wants to come back and play we will be glad to continue. If he doesn't however he will not be a paid member of Eclypsia. We believe we can resolve the issue so at the moment we have just ordered a suspension rather than removal. If SjoW wants to leave the team he is free to go. If he wants to return he is more than welcome but as it stands we cannot pay somebody who is not playing the game they are paid for.
So wait, you haven't first told SjoW about the suspension and let him decide if he wants to leave the team? Instead you decide to post this publicly first?
Jeffrey “Sjow” Brusi has been suspended without pay for a 30 days period. This decision was made by Eclypsia following the player’s breach of trust.
We are very sorry for the inconvenience it may cause but we feel strongly about punishing a player who has not honored any of the commitments he had signed up for. As you may have noticed (or unnoticed actually), Sjow has been absent from the European scene since he has joined Eclypsia. He has only played few tournaments and we can’t but regret his lack of results and motivation. Some may for example remember his elimination from the Battle at Ministry of Win in August right from the first group stage on a 0-2/1-4 score.
Sjow asked Eclypsia to have him join the Ministry of Win in September 2012. He had then committed to increase his gaming level and be more visible online. He was indeed supposed to stream his trainings.
We are today very sorry to admit none of these commitments were or are being honored. We really wish for this period to be enough to receive from our player a satisfying answer. We still hope to see Sjow at the top very soon.
Ruurk's statement:
Sjow at the moment is not playing SC2. This means we cannot pay him for being a SC2 player. If SjoW wants to come back and play we will be glad to continue. If he doesn't however he will not be a paid member of Eclypsia. We believe we can resolve the issue so at the moment we have just ordered a suspension rather than removal. If SjoW wants to leave the team he is free to go. If he wants to return he is more than welcome but as it stands we cannot pay somebody who is not playing the game they are paid for.
That is a really cool story and whatnot, but WHY are you posting this publicly?
This really seems like a topic you just tell Sjow in private and MAYBE publicly annouce that he went inactive for now. I mean, what are you thinking?
On October 24 2012 01:30 FairForever wrote: Ironic, since Eclypsia seems to have had problems honouring agreements to its other ex-players in the past. Also the meme contest was pretty brutal.
Hope Sjow is able to leave and find a better team.
Don't blame them for this, he is the one who didn't uphold his contract. Sure they had some trouble in the past but you can't use that to justify other player's misconduct.
On October 24 2012 01:40 imMUTAble787 wrote: Why are you bashing your own player in a public forum ? This does not seem worthy of a post at all.
I completely agree... It's not like he did something that tarnished your name in any form. If he didnt follow your contract, punish him, everyone doesnt have to know about it. If anything, this actually just makes you look bad in my eyes...
Jeffrey “Sjow” Brusi has been suspended without pay for a 30 days period. This decision was made by Eclypsia following the player’s breach of trust.
We are very sorry for the inconvenience it may cause but we feel strongly about punishing a player who has not honored any of the commitments he had signed up for. As you may have noticed (or unnoticed actually), Sjow has been absent from the European scene since he has joined Eclypsia. He has only played few tournaments and we can’t but regret his lack of results and motivation. Some may for example remember his elimination from the Battle at Ministry of Win in August right from the first group stage on a 0-2/1-4 score.
Sjow asked Eclypsia to have him join the Ministry of Win in September 2012. He had then committed to increase his gaming level and be more visible online. He was indeed supposed to stream his trainings.
We are today very sorry to admit none of these commitments were or are being honored. We really wish for this period to be enough to receive from our player a satisfying answer. We still hope to see Sjow at the top very soon.
Ruurk's statement:
Sjow at the moment is not playing SC2. This means we cannot pay him for being a SC2 player. If SjoW wants to come back and play we will be glad to continue. If he doesn't however he will not be a paid member of Eclypsia. We believe we can resolve the issue so at the moment we have just ordered a suspension rather than removal. If SjoW wants to leave the team he is free to go. If he wants to return he is more than welcome but as it stands we cannot pay somebody who is not playing the game they are paid for.
So wait, you haven't first told SjoW about the suspension and let him decide if he wants to leave the team? Instead you decide to post this publicly first?
I have been missing Sjow's stream. I had it bookmarked for a while, but there wasn't much recently. Then again, I could have missed out on his streaming hours.
Jeffrey “Sjow” Brusi has been suspended without pay for a 30 days period. This decision was made by Eclypsia following the player’s breach of trust.
We are very sorry for the inconvenience it may cause but we feel strongly about punishing a player who has not honored any of the commitments he had signed up for. As you may have noticed (or unnoticed actually), Sjow has been absent from the European scene since he has joined Eclypsia. He has only played few tournaments and we can’t but regret his lack of results and motivation. Some may for example remember his elimination from the Battle at Ministry of Win in August right from the first group stage on a 0-2/1-4 score.
Sjow asked Eclypsia to have him join the Ministry of Win in September 2012. He had then committed to increase his gaming level and be more visible online. He was indeed supposed to stream his trainings.
We are today very sorry to admit none of these commitments were or are being honored. We really wish for this period to be enough to receive from our player a satisfying answer. We still hope to see Sjow at the top very soon.
Ruurk's statement:
Sjow at the moment is not playing SC2. This means we cannot pay him for being a SC2 player. If SjoW wants to come back and play we will be glad to continue. If he doesn't however he will not be a paid member of Eclypsia. We believe we can resolve the issue so at the moment we have just ordered a suspension rather than removal. If SjoW wants to leave the team he is free to go. If he wants to return he is more than welcome but as it stands we cannot pay somebody who is not playing the game they are paid for.
So wait, you haven't first told SjoW about the suspension and let him decide if he wants to leave the team? Instead you decide to post this publicly first?
Wow.
Where does it say they haven't told Sjow about it. It just says that they've suspended his contract because he's not playing SC2 and in the event that he decides he does want to re-commit to SC2 again they'll be happy to resume it.
As for this being posted publicly, meh I think it's fine. It's transparent (presuming it's not hideously biased; given the lack of Sjow anywhere it's not exactly surprising) and I don't see anything wrong with letting fans know the status of team/players, especially in circumstances like this.
wow... most teams in esports are so bad at business. looks like they watched what EG was doing (this part is a good idea if you wanna do better business) and tried to copy it without understanding the point of EG's move and how it differs from what they are doing even in the slightest.
On October 24 2012 01:47 Insoleet wrote: learn to read dudes. he is suspended for not participating in any tournament, for not streaming, for not going to ministry of win house.... he doesn't even try. you can't pay a player who is afk, that's retarded.
i guess this is why french businesses in general and rules of contracts in france and between french entities and external entities are a fucking joke. they tolerate shitty behavior. is it a cultural thing in france that businesses are allowed to be fucking jokes and not play by any semblance of rules? i know businesses around the world break rules but they at least have to do it in secret and do get caught/punished. i see people from multiple countries including other europeans disgusted with their behavior.
On October 24 2012 01:44 soiii wrote: "Our player does no perform, so lets just suspend him and bash him in an official statement" - Eclypsia surely stays the biggest joke team out there.
If he's lazy and bad then he should be thankful that it is only a suspension.
More teams should do this IMO. So many contracted players just sit on their ass waiting for divine intervention to give them "teh skills".
why talk about something you have NO effing clue of?
I have nothing to say about this really, except for:
People want no fluff and when they get it they cry about it, again. Learn to read. They're not bashing anyone. A lot of Sjow fans are interested in what he's doing.
On October 24 2012 02:22 Shadow_Dog wrote: People want no fluff and when they get it they cry about it, again. Learn to read. They're not bashing anyone. A lot of Sjow fans are interested in what he's doing.
They are publicly punishing him though. None of this needed to be heard. It could have been a simple "sjow goes inactive" thread. Internal problems that didn't start publicly don't need to be made public. It's between EC and Sjow. The fact that they made this public is so pathetic. They didn't get enough attention from sjow being on the team streaming so now they do this to get attention. So sad.
On October 24 2012 02:14 nihlon wrote: People want transparency and when they get it they still complain...
Transparency yes, when there is an argument at hand which consits of different accusations. This issue on the other hand is pretty straight forward and is 100% of clan-internal nature. Posting this, while beeing totally uncalled for, just has an attention-fishing tone to it.
I think a more professional way to act would be sth. like this:
>Inform the player in private, that you are not satisfied with his performance / activity lately >Tell him you cannot pay him in the current situation until he fullfills the (contracted) level of activeness again >Tell him, that you like to keep him on the roster if he does change. >Offer the player to be released from the team, if he wants to or if he stays inactive. >Wait for a response from the player, come to a bilateral agreement >THEN make a press release with the outcome and the consequences.
... and yeah, emphasizing bad results from your own player in recent tournaments is not that optimal.
On October 24 2012 01:40 imMUTAble787 wrote: Why are you bashing your own player in a public forum ? This does not seem worthy of a post at all.
This. What's the point of publicly bashing Sjow ? This is an internal issue imo...
A stated before they have to make something like this public otherwise the player can just turn on them and complain that he doesn't get paid. If a player is suspended from pay that's pretty normal to be public in other sports as well.
I don't know why people have a problem with this announcement. I like team transparency and it's refreshing to see. If you want to cry poor player, well that player shouldn't have done those things in the first place to warrant punishment. I don't have sympathy for people who came into a situation by their own doing and actions.
Eclypsia does have a poor reputation, but people are too quick to take the players side in everything. Players aren't always angels and teams aren't always the devil.
Step back and look at the big picture. There's way too many players currently signed onto teams for below-subsistence level wages, without any hope of producing results, without anywhere to go except maybe flipping burgers or their mom's basement. Ever since the SC2 speculation bubble burst there's no money in the pool anymore to support them anymore. Add to that the shadiness of team leadership and the youth of the players how can you not have drama.
On October 24 2012 02:37 reapsen wrote: I think a more professional way to act would be sth. like this:
>Inform the player in private, that you are not satisfied with his performance / activity lately >Tell him you cannot pay him in the current situation until he fullfills the (contracted) level of activeness again >Tell him, that you like to keep him on the roster if he does so. >Offer the player to be released from the team, if he wants to or if he stays inactive. >Wait for a response from the player, come to an bilateral agreement >THEN make a press release with the outcome and the consequences.
maybe all of this happened and we just dont know?
I wouldnt want to pay a player with a big name that doesnt play the game and doesnt show any results therefore for lots of months either.
On October 24 2012 01:40 imMUTAble787 wrote: Why are you bashing your own player in a public forum ? This does not seem worthy of a post at all.
This. What's the point of publicly bashing Sjow ? This is an internal issue imo...
A stated before they have to make something like this public otherwise the player can just turn on them and complain that he doesn't get paid. If a player is suspended from pay that's pretty normal to be public in other sports as well.
Um no. You come out with the details if that scenario were to occur. You don't shit on your player in public like this. Only in Eclypsia folks. ZzzZzzz
On October 24 2012 02:37 reapsen wrote: I think a more professional way to act would be sth. like this:
>Inform the player in private, that you are not satisfied with his performance / activity lately >Tell him you cannot pay him in the current situation until he fullfills the (contracted) level of activeness again >Tell him, that you like to keep him on the roster if he does so. >Offer the player to be released from the team, if he wants to or if he stays inactive. >Wait for a response from the player, come to an bilateral agreement >THEN make a press release with the outcome and the consequences.
From the statements made this seems to be exactly what happened.
Yeah sorry guys but why exactly are you doing this in public? I was sympathetic towards you after the advertisement drama with the stream instead of a banner, I thought that was just an interesting marketing move, but keep this kind of thing within the team. It just looks bad, why even talk about it?
On October 24 2012 02:37 reapsen wrote: I think a more professional way to act would be sth. like this:
>Inform the player in private, that you are not satisfied with his performance / activity lately >Tell him you cannot pay him in the current situation until he fullfills the (contracted) level of activeness again >Tell him, that you like to keep him on the roster if he does so. >Offer the player to be released from the team, if he wants to or if he stays inactive. >Wait for a response from the player, come to an bilateral agreement >THEN make a press release with the outcome and the consequences.
From the statements made this seems to be exactly what happened.
If you are correct, then the press release from EC is just badly worded. It reads a lot like they skipped steps 1 to 5 and went directly to step 6. Especially it seems like they skipped step 5! (Maybe we get a reaction from Sjow to this... where is Slasher if you need him?!)
Also if Steps 1 to 5 were made in private, a more discrete press release would have been way more adequate.
On October 24 2012 01:40 imMUTAble787 wrote: Why are you bashing your own player in a public forum ? This does not seem worthy of a post at all.
Yea I don't get this.
The EG / Stephano stuff was damage control and PR. It was already public and they had to do something. This is just... I don't get it. Someone didn't do what they said they would do so you're not paying them for a month? Why is that public information?
this reads as if the team is unhappy with sjows behaviour and instead of intensive talks with their player they make a decision and publish it. not the best solution, as it puts one party (sjow) in a defensive position. Creatures being attacked/forced in a corner, will either try to escape or attack you back - both is bad for mutual success.
On October 24 2012 02:47 Evangelist wrote: Congratulations on losing the only player anyone knows about. Have fun in your new team, SjoW.
this isn't Jan 2011, Welmu is waaaaaaaaaaaaay more valuable than Sjow.
I don't think a statement should have been made on TL but if the situation is what is described there, right decision imo.
Sjow has better offline results in 2012 according to tlpd than welmu though. Not sure how you chalk that up to being more valuable. Not to mention Sjow has already proven in the past that he can win a big offline tournament.
On October 24 2012 02:50 SilSol wrote: Wait what did i just read now? Why are you making these public first of all? Uhm. That's why dignitas has SjoW in their roster now?
On October 24 2012 01:34 FuriousGool wrote: This team... my god.
Tbh, the team is really improving, and Sjow did not do anything relevant in the past months.
Doesn't change the fact that anything posted about Eclypsia or regarding Eclypsia has NEVER been good or positive. Aside from their opening post about the launch of the team :/
A new low for Eclypsia. Sorry EC, but can you guys just disappear? Everything you guys touch fails, and it's getting annoying! NOT looking forward to next month's drama from this sorry excuse for a team.
This has got to be probably the worst foreign team in the game right now. Ethics in gaming teams are so low, it's hard to understand. People should really appreciate the gift that is Liquid and EG for doing things correctly no matter what the circumstance is. It trickles down from good guys like Victor and Alex.
On October 24 2012 01:34 FuriousGool wrote: This team... my god.
Tbh, the team is really improving, and Sjow did not do anything relevant in the past months.
Doesn't change the fact that anything posted about Eclypsia or regarding Eclypsia has NEVER been good or positive. Aside from their opening post about the launch of the team :/
How is Sjow not playing SC2 Eclypsia's fault?
This is my thoughts too :\
If you employed someone to do something, and they didn't do it you don't pay them. It's a pretty clear and simple answer to the problem at hand.
On October 24 2012 01:44 soiii wrote: "Our player does no perform, so lets just suspend him and bash him in an official statement" - Eclypsia surely stays the biggest joke team out there.
If he's lazy and bad then he should be thankful that it is only a suspension.
More teams should do this IMO. So many contracted players just sit on their ass waiting for divine intervention to give them "teh skills".
agreed, shame everyone is simply going to shit on EC
The funny thing is if that issue was kept quite and then went public somehow people would be going batshit crazy "We werent we told before, WE HAVE RIGHT TO KNOW". YOu cant satisfy everyone.
On October 24 2012 03:18 Koshi wrote: I don't understand why Eclypsia made a topic for this.
PR
Edit: It's kinda obvious. Any advertisement is an advertisement. For example, I forgot that such a team even existed, but now they reminded me of it. It works, actually. XD
On October 24 2012 03:18 Koshi wrote: I don't understand why Eclypsia made a topic for this.
PR
Not for PR, for attention. Eclypsia is the typical teenage attention whore, who will do and say anything to get people to look at them, regardless of what the end result may be.
I agree with most of the previous posts. A bit tired of this bashing of your own players. It would be one thing if you had removed him from your team and make a public statement. Keep internal stuff internal. Sure teams want publicity but keep this kind of stuff to your own webpage.
I hope to see SjoW return to practice and competition soon! He´s a awesome guy and interesting player!
On October 24 2012 03:18 Koshi wrote: I don't understand why Eclypsia made a topic for this.
PR
But just handle it internally? This hardly concerns anyone but the parties involved. It just makes sjow look bad and eclypsia like a shitty employer for bringing it out in public
On October 24 2012 03:18 Koshi wrote: I don't understand why Eclypsia made a topic for this.
Every major team in every major sport would release a press statement in regards to a suspension. This is the equivilent of a press statement. Team liquid while being a community/Forum/team is also "E-sports press".
On October 24 2012 03:18 Koshi wrote: I don't understand why Eclypsia made a topic for this.
PR
Not for PR, for attention. Eclypsia is the typical teenage attention whore, who will do and say anything to get people to look at them, regardless of what the end result may be.
Oh, I am sorry, I did not mean "public relations", it's just that this word became a synonim for advertisement in russian language >_<. But now I realised that it doesn't mean exactly that in english, woo, sorry. ^_^"
If he didn't follow his contract then he deserves to get suspended, and the public has an expectation of a right to know when suspensions happen.
People just hate on EC because it's fashionable now. Last year sure they did 3-4 things deserving of the very negative reactions they got, but now it's just "Oh, this thread is about Eclypsia? Well I'm gonna go talk shit on 'em because that's what everyone does."
On October 24 2012 01:49 Al Bundy wrote: You want your players to stream their training, well that's a bad decision, Mr. Eclypsia. That's all I have to say about this. Unless your so-called training is mindless laddering.
@Sjow: you've become a puppet, man. Really unfortunate.
Don't think you have seen a player contract. There are usually requirements of 20+ hours of weekly practice and they are fully able to punish him without his approval, which means he was a 'puppet' (atleast the way you seem to think of one) since he signed it.
I like how 97% of the post in this thread are like "Listen EC, i know my shit about business, i'll tell you how to do it" and 2 other % are "lololol EC shitty team because you suspended a player i like!"
Get real people, every team in any sport would make a public statement about a player who is being suspended, that's called transparency and it's a GOOD THING. So please, don't make assumptions and speculations when you don't know shit about what you're talking about...
IMO, it's a good move to make a statement, at least we will know the reasons behind Sjow's possible departure from the team or increase in streaming hours.
Everything I've read about them has been bad news, and I don't think they have done one good thing for the community, I just see shit that comes out of what they do. Nobody cares about them anymore, they have a terrible reputation...
Do people even want to see them on Teamliquid? I don't see how they can make any money since nobody likes them... I don't if they can just be expelled from the website in a similar way to CombatEX. Eclypsia handed this very unprofessionally, and I feel like this organization is run by a bunch of attention seeking 20 year olds.
I hope my dissatisfaction with the team doesn't come off as too hostile, but I'm just really upset with them, and don't think they bring any positive light to the community, or our respected players.
So the guy got inactive, stopped playing SC2 and the team no longer felt like they wanted to pay him. Why are you even making a public announcement about this?
On October 24 2012 03:27 DeepElemBlues wrote: If he didn't follow his contract then he deserves to get suspended, and the public has an expectation of a right to know when suspensions happen.
People just hate on EC because it's fashionable now. Last year sure they did 3-4 things deserving of the very negative reactions they got, but now it's just "Oh, this thread is about Eclypsia? Well I'm gonna go talk shit on 'em because that's what everyone does."
Lol in what retarded world do we have a right to know when disciplinary action is taken? Do you expect your bosses to announce it in the workplace when this sort of thing happens too?
"Crew, sally was late today so were gonna have to dock her pay this week. You are entitled to know this because her being late does not benefit or affect you at all."
good move from Eclypsia, players are employees and they need to behave like that, SjoW had problems with motivation like two years ago if I remeber correctly (question is why they even signed him in the first place?) hope EC will spend their money on players who actually want to play Stacraft ....
On October 24 2012 01:44 soiii wrote: "Our player does no perform, so lets just suspend him and bash him in an official statement" - Eclypsia surely stays the biggest joke team out there.
If he's lazy and bad then he should be thankful that it is only a suspension.
More teams should do this IMO. So many contracted players just sit on their ass waiting for divine intervention to give them "teh skills".
agreed, shame everyone is simply going to shit on EC
Well there's two problems with it.
1) They shouldn't be making a press statement about it, it just comes off as immature and a cheap attempt at some publicity. Not only that, it makes their player feel like shit. This is something that has to be resolved internally, and if it comes to a suspension then do it and keep it quiet.
2) One month without pay seems extreme for these pro gamers who don't make much money as it is. If these extreme punishment start becoming commonplace than esports quickly goes from getting paid doing what you love to all business. I don't want to hear about money, salaries, PPV's, etc... this is competitive gaming trying to grow it's too soon to get corporate!
It doesn't matter if he deserved it or not, it doesn't matter if you think, for some godforsaken reason, that you have a "right to know", its just classless to bash your own player and display his poor results like this.
On October 24 2012 03:27 DeepElemBlues wrote: If he didn't follow his contract then he deserves to get suspended, and the public has an expectation of a right to know when suspensions happen.
People just hate on EC because it's fashionable now. Last year sure they did 3-4 things deserving of the very negative reactions they got, but now it's just "Oh, this thread is about Eclypsia? Well I'm gonna go talk shit on 'em because that's what everyone does."
Lol in what retarded world do we have a right to know when disciplinary action is taken? Do you expect your bosses to announce it in the workplace when this sort of thing happens too?
"Crew, sally was late today so were gonna have to dock her pay this week. You are entitled to know this because her being late does not benefit or affect you at all."
Yeah, what you said carries no weight.
Yeah, what you said was mocking, condescending, and the best part is that it's stupid as hell. Sally the burger flipper is not an entertainer. No one outside of McDonald's #3344 cares if Sally is working or not. Someone else can flip the burgers if she's not there, it isn't a spectator sport.
Sjow is an entertainer. People watch him play Starcraft 2 for their enjoyment. If he just drops off the scene, people want to know why.
Somtimes I love this community. If a football player dosen't appear to the training and gets suspended, the fans have a right to hear about this! And its the same with this. Sjow dosen't fullfill his contract (as far as Eclipsia puts it) and get punished because of that. And you as the fans get informed about that. Where is the problem?
EG does it: Everyone thinks its ok Eclipsia does it: "Those motherf****" Funny :D
On October 24 2012 03:50 Vinc wrote: Somtimes I love this community. If a football player dosen't appear to the training and gets suspended, the fans have a right to hear about this! And its the same with this. Sjow dosen't fullfill his contract (as far as Eclipsia puts it) and get punished because of that. And you as the fans get informed about that. Where is the problem?
EG does it: Everyone thinks its ok Eclipsia does it: "Those motherf****" Funny :D
Sadly the mass crowd can't be trusted to put their blind hate-love aside. Most people already have EC on their black book and won't remove it unless .... hell i dont even know.
On October 24 2012 01:44 soiii wrote: "Our player does no perform, so lets just suspend him and bash him in an official statement" - Eclypsia surely stays the biggest joke team out there.
If he's lazy and bad then he should be thankful that it is only a suspension.
More teams should do this IMO. So many contracted players just sit on their ass waiting for divine intervention to give them "teh skills".
agreed, shame everyone is simply going to shit on EC
Well there's two problems with it.
1) They shouldn't be making a press statement about it, it just comes off as immature and a cheap attempt at some publicity. Not only that, it makes their player feel like shit. This is something that has to be resolved internally, and if it comes to a suspension then do it and keep it quiet.
2) One month without pay seems extreme for these pro gamers who don't make much money as it is. If these extreme punishment start becoming commonplace than esports quickly goes from getting paid doing what you love to all business. I don't want to hear about money, salaries, PPV's, etc... this is competitive gaming trying to grow it's too soon to get corporate!
I'm fore sure not a fan of EC after all the stunts they pulled in the past but this move I understand. Imagine the shitstorm if they didn't announce this and somehow there would be a post "EC don't pays Sjow" They could say what ever they want, nobody would believe them.
And if it's true that he didn't play/train I think it's ok to cut payments for a month, it seems Sjow didn't meet his requirements for a much longer time. Of course this is only ok if the reasons in the statement are realy true.
On October 24 2012 03:27 DeepElemBlues wrote: If he didn't follow his contract then he deserves to get suspended, and the public has an expectation of a right to know when suspensions happen.
People just hate on EC because it's fashionable now. Last year sure they did 3-4 things deserving of the very negative reactions they got, but now it's just "Oh, this thread is about Eclypsia? Well I'm gonna go talk shit on 'em because that's what everyone does."
Lol in what retarded world do we have a right to know when disciplinary action is taken? Do you expect your bosses to announce it in the workplace when this sort of thing happens too?
"Crew, sally was late today so were gonna have to dock her pay this week. You are entitled to know this because her being late does not benefit or affect you at all."
Yeah, what you said carries no weight.
Yeah, what you said was mocking, condescending, and the best part is that it's stupid as hell. Sally the burger flipper is not an entertainer. No one outside of McDonald's #3344 cares if Sally is working or not. Someone else can flip the burgers if she's not there, it isn't a spectator sport.
Sjow is an entertainer. People watch him play Starcraft 2 for their enjoyment. If he just drops off the scene, people want to know why.
This announcement is not about him dropping off the sc2 though. Not sure why you would even bring that up when it isn't even relevant to this thread? Also, Just because people have a want or a desire to know something, does not mean they have a right or are entitled. And how do you know that sally the burger flipper can't do amazing flip flopin' tricks that people won't be entertained by? Lol.
Strange how there were no problems when sjow was on dignitas but then as soon as he join Eclypsia a load of problems arise...hmmm i hope he finds a different team.
This kind of annoys me and reeks like a ploy to get rid of negative publicity in advance, once Sjow says something about not getting any pay this month.
Given Eclypsia's history, they probably did something stupid and are launching this as a preemptive strike against SjoW to defend themselves against coming accusations. Why else would you go public about a small scale thing like this? If they are prepared to welcome SjoW back like they say, why then post this and make one of their own players look bad?
Edit:
Also, in principle, suspending someone for not streaming according to agreement might be reasonable, but why would you also be complaining about his results (in quite a demeaning tone) in the same breath?
On October 24 2012 01:26 SarenS wrote: Some may for example remember his elimination from the Battle at Ministry of Win in August right from the first group stage on a 0-2/1-4 score.
On October 24 2012 04:00 DownOnMyNiece wrote: This kind of annoys me and reeks like a ploy to get rid of negative publicity in advance, once Sjow says something about not getting any pay this month.
You know.... maybe.... just maybe...... they are putting out this statement to clarify the situation and why Sjow is not getting his pay this month. If Sjow has an issue, he can make a post refuting them with his claims, until then Sjow probably accepts his mistake.
On October 24 2012 04:00 DownOnMyNiece wrote: This kind of annoys me and reeks like a ploy to get rid of negative publicity in advance, once Sjow says something about not getting any pay this month.
You know.... maybe.... just maybe...... they are putting out this statement to clarify the situation and why Sjow is not getting his pay this month. If Sjow has an issue, he can make a post refuting them with his claims, until then Sjow probably accepts his mistake.
That sounds reasonable, if we weren't talking about EC.
People in this thread are bashing Eclypsia because it's a team with a bad rep. If it was any other team, the decision would be logical. Why pay a player if he's not doing his job?
Well, maybe there's something else brewing in the background that I don't know of. Wouldn't suprise me anymore, since this scene cooks up drama every week.
This is completely stupid.... there's no reason that a team needs to announce disciplinary actions to a player in a public space. That should take place internally. Creating a forum topic is 100% unprofessional.
The only way it would be proper to do it is in Stephano's case in which he acted unprofessional in a public space and made comments that could reflect poorly on the team. In this case it's the team's responsibility to take action and ensure it tells the community that it doesn't condone that behavior.
SjoW not practicing has nothing to do with anybody but SjoW or Eclypsia.
You guys sure are efficient in finding new ways of not paying your players. Go join Apex at the kiddie table of esport teams and just stop picking up players already.
On October 24 2012 03:18 Koshi wrote: I don't understand why Eclypsia made a topic for this.
PR
But just handle it internally? This hardly concerns anyone but the parties involved. It just makes sjow look bad and eclypsia like a shitty employer for bringing it out in public
It hardly concerns anyone but the parties involved in professional sports too but they always release statements stating such and such has been fined and suspended for violating team rules or something along those lines. Are they shitty employers too? It's not totally outrageous that they did this. Seems like most of the people here just try to find any reason at all to bash Eclypsia.
This "press release" is uncomfortable on way too many levels. We don't really need to know, and you don't need us to know. And if this has a follow up, wait untill the follow up happens so you and your player can publicly announce any discord that happened together. And then you're also in a great position to announce the final resolution to the occurred problem.
On October 24 2012 02:57 SjoW wrote: Statement will come soon about my future with EC in a couple of days, stayed tuned ^^
So what's up man? This thread probably made people worry about you even more than about Eclypsia's PR department.
Let's assume the statements made by Eclipsia are true and not to biased, then we got the following situation:
1. Sjow is paid a salary by Eclipsia, and part of his contract is to stream and be an active sc2 player. 2. Sjow doesn't play (much) Starcraft 2 at the moment, and he does not stream, and hasn't streamed for the past few months.(which seems to be true, if you look at the viewer statistics here on TL, e.g the top 50 streamer list)
Conclusion => Eclipsia suspends him because he's not following his contract. I don't know where all the hate comes from again, but if you hire an employee and he doesn't show up for three consecutive months i wonder what you're going to do.
Regarding the fact that they made a public statement, i think that's the common way to do it in most sports. Because if you don't do it, and the player starts to go on a rant about it a few days later, you'll have a very hard time getting the facts right.
Because if you look at this threat and keep in mind that this isn't even drama worthy or shady at all, and the community still starts to bash a team blindy, you shouldn't really wonder why they want to state their opinion first.
And it doesn't even play the tiniest role what Eclipsia did in the past or did not do, a hired player needs to actually play the game, if he doesn't he gets fired, just because Eclipsia did poorly in the past doesn't make this decision wrong.
On October 24 2012 04:23 Nyxisto wrote: okay guys, its fact-check time!:
Let's assume the statements made by Eclipsia are true and not to biased, then we got the following situation:
1. Sjow is paid a salary by Eclipsia, and part of his contract is to stream and be an active sc2 player. 2. Sjow doesn't play (much) Starcraft 2 at the moment, and he does not stream, and hasn't streamed for the past few months.(which seems to be true, if you look at the viewer statistics here on TL, e.g the top 50 streamer list)
Conclusion => Eclipsia suspends him because he's not following his contract. I don't know where all the hate comes from again, but if you hire an employee and he doesn't show up for three consecutive months i wonder what you're going to do.
Regarding the fact that they made a public statement, i think that's the common way to do it in most sports. Because if you don't do it, and the player starts to go on a rant about it a few days later, you'll have a very hard time getting the facts right.
Because if you look at this threat and keep in mind that this isn't even drama worthy or shady at all, and the community still starts to bash a team blindy, you shouldn't really wonder why they want to state their opinion first.
people are stupid as fuck and have a bias against eclypsia because of previous problems so they believe that everything eclypsia does is wrong. im not a fan of eclypsia but reading the replies in this page gave me a headache. "why are u bashing ur own player?!??!" they're not. its just a press release.
edit: ps this isn't "drama". it's just something that happened. i wish people would stop calling everything drama.
He doesn't play enough so they suspend him so he plays even less? I don't get it. I would get if they would just not pay him if he isn't following through his part of the contract. Or even if the contract would be dissolved(or whatever the term is).
On October 24 2012 04:23 Nyxisto wrote: okay guys, its fact-check time!:
Let's assume the statements made by Eclipsia are true and not to biased, then we got the following situation:
1. Sjow is paid a salary by Eclipsia, and part of his contract is to stream and be an active sc2 player. 2. Sjow doesn't play (much) Starcraft 2 at the moment, and he does not stream, and hasn't streamed for the past few months.(which seems to be true, if you look at the viewer statistics here on TL, e.g the top 50 streamer list)
Conclusion => Eclipsia suspends him because he's not following his contract. I don't know where all the hate comes from again, but if you hire an employee and he doesn't show up for three consecutive months i wonder what you're going to do.
Regarding the fact that they made a public statement, i think that's the common way to do it in most sports. Because if you don't do it, and the player starts to go on a rant about it a few days later, you'll have a very hard time getting the facts right.
Because if you look at this threat and keep in mind that this isn't even drama worthy or shady at all, and the community still starts to bash a team blindy, you shouldn't really wonder why they want to state their opinion first.
And it doesn't even play the tiniest role what Eclipsia did in the past or did not do, a hired player needs to actually play the game, if he doesn't he gets fired, just because Eclipsia did poorly in the past doesn't make this decision wrong.
The hate comes from the fact that they made a public announcement. There's no need for this. They could have silently suspended him and be done with it, nobody would have known. Instead they damage their own player's reputation.
It was a non-public incident (how many of you knew that he stopped playing?), it should be a non-public response. Stephano was a public incident, and it got a public response. That's how it works.
On October 24 2012 04:23 Nyxisto wrote: okay guys, its fact-check time!:
Let's assume the statements made by Eclipsia are true and not to biased, then we got the following situation:
1. Sjow is paid a salary by Eclipsia, and part of his contract is to stream and be an active sc2 player. 2. Sjow doesn't play (much) Starcraft 2 at the moment, and he does not stream, and hasn't streamed for the past few months.(which seems to be true, if you look at the viewer statistics here on TL, e.g the top 50 streamer list)
Conclusion => Eclipsia suspends him because he's not following his contract. I don't know where all the hate comes from again, but if you hire an employee and he doesn't show up for three consecutive months i wonder what you're going to do.
Regarding the fact that they made a public statement, i think that's the common way to do it in most sports. Because if you don't do it, and the player starts to go on a rant about it a few days later, you'll have a very hard time getting the facts right.
Because if you look at this threat and keep in mind that this isn't even drama worthy or shady at all, and the community still starts to bash a team blindy, you shouldn't really wonder why they want to state their opinion first.
And it doesn't even play the tiniest role what Eclipsia did in the past or did not do, a hired player needs to actually play the game, if he doesn't he gets fired, just because Eclipsia did poorly in the past doesn't make this decision wrong.
The hate comes from the fact that they made a public announcement. There's no need for this. They could have silently suspended him and be done with it, nobody would have known. Instead they damage their own player's reputation.
It was a non-public incident (how many of you knew that he stopped playing?), it should be a non-public response. Stephano was a public incident, and it got a public response. That's how it works.
This guy knows what he is talking about. Other people need to get a clue(we are after all leaving them here in there, its not just random hate).
On October 24 2012 04:35 Soda-88 wrote: 9 pages and no mention of his Diablo 3 grinding?
Lol
who needs to get paid by their pro team when you can just earn money with the auction house.
i cant believe people are giving EC shit for this lol. sure theyve fucked up in the past but they are 100% in the right here, now, making a public statement about it is probably a bit silly ;p sure if the news was front page stuff they would need to respond. but i dont know if people should see every bit of dirty laundry.
On October 24 2012 04:58 Catatonic wrote: Untrustworthy team suspends a player for being untrustworthy? Oh the irony
what is it with all the hate about eclypsia? there wasnt a whole lot happening with the team, it was just the one thing where 3 players left at the same time which was months ago???
SjoW is hopping off and on teams all the time, plays 95% d3 as it seems and you guys defend him. To me it seems like SjoW has a contract with EC that he doesnt give a shit about while still gaining money from them. am i wrong?
EG set the standard of suspension punishments it seems. First EG then Liquid now EC. Pretty weird way to punish players who most of the time make barely enough money to get by as it is. I hope this doesn't become the standard means to resolve player/team conflicts.
On October 24 2012 01:40 imMUTAble787 wrote: Why are you bashing your own player in a public forum ? This does not seem worthy of a post at all.
Yea I don't get this.
The EG / Stephano stuff was damage control and PR. It was already public and they had to do something. This is just... I don't get it. Someone didn't do what they said they would do so you're not paying them for a month? Why is that public information?
My guess is they are doing a preemptive strike in case Sjow had the idea of creating a thread complaining about not getting paid...
The hate comes from the fact that they made a public announcement. There's no need for this. They could have silently suspended him and be done with it, nobody would have known. Instead they damage their own player's reputation.
It was a non-public incident (how many of you knew that he stopped playing?), it should be a non-public response. Stephano was a public incident, and it got a public response. That's how it works.
Well actually i think it's a public incident if you relate that to how well Sjow is known. He may not be one of the "superstars" of the scene, but he's definitely a known progamer, and i think many people noticed that he was playing a lot of d3 and wasn't streaming starcraft at all.
And regarding to "how it works", if you look at every other sport, Eclipsia did it exactly "they way it works". I don't know if you read my whole reply but if a player gets suspended and the team doesn't make a public announcement, and the player wants to drag them down afterwards, it just doesn't matter if he's right or not, the team will be in a very terrible position.
This whole topic is enough of a proof to show why a team wants to make their opinion public first, just imagine what kind of shitstorm would commence if a player who got suspended rightfully wants to start drama and post some totally biased version of what happened a few days afterwards.
Sjow...who ? Just kidding i know who this is and i agree with your decision to suspend him,not providing good results is one thing but his online visibility is bad these days,can't even see him in go4 or playhem,not to mention non-existent stream...
Yeah, I was looking forward to seeing him stream more after joining Eclypsia, he even streamed for a few days... and then he stopped. He is one of my favorite progamers, that's why I know. During those few days that he streamed, he always seemed kinda distracted and distant, one could tell his heart was not in it. I don't think he will practice sc2 any time soon.
On October 24 2012 05:13 theBlues wrote: My guess is they are doing a preemptive strike in case Sjow had the idea of creating a thread complaining about not getting paid...
It's not like that thread isn't gonna get posted anyway. It's a matter of time.
On October 24 2012 01:40 imMUTAble787 wrote: Why are you bashing your own player in a public forum ? This does not seem worthy of a post at all.
^ this. Hold yourself with some bloody dignity. We don't need to know if you're suspending a player unless it is so egregious that the community is already aware of why he is being suspended. You're hurting SjoW by publicly shaming him and hurting your team image even more by your lack of tact.
Unless you're doing it maliciously so he resigns..
Hard to blame him for being a no-sjow. On the one hand it sounds cool to make a living playing a game. But maybe not when that game is dying and neglected by its creator.
Not sure why the team is taking flak for this. Player fails to meet contractual obligations, player gets suspended. Granted Eclypsia has a spotty track record, but until SjoW responds, I see no reason to badmouth the team oO
I really don't understand why every conflict between management and players, the community sides with the players. Sure, they are good at Starcraft and entertain you with games, but management are the people who support them with income and fly them out to tournaments so that you get that entertainment. Not every player is a saint, just like not every management-type figure is a saint.
More and more incentive to the LoL scene... after watching Legend of the Swarm last night on GSL, even though it was a joke on the show, it was kind of ironic because many players are actually switching to LoL.
Eclypsia is the shittiest team I've ever heard of. You are taking a non-public matter and bashing your own player publicly for publicity. Suspending him is your own business, publicising it is bad business.
Fuck your stupid team. You won't be around that much longer.
one fckin game has so much drama TT im kinda sick of reading all this negative shit. i hope something positive pulls thru for the sc2 scene soon else the exodus will become much greater.
Imagine if a different team had posted something like this, everyone would praise them for their action and transparency. Our community really sucks sometimes.
This seems to be the right decision. If you breach the terms of your contract, you get punished.
i feel like this incident should have and could have been resolved internally. No one would have known anything about this and it is not like Sjow did something wrong publicly. Stupid team move...again.
On October 24 2012 04:09 herMan wrote: People in this thread are bashing Eclypsia because it's a team with a bad rep. If it was any other team, the decision would be logical. Why pay a player if he's not doing his job?
Well, maybe there's something else brewing in the background that I don't know of. Wouldn't suprise me anymore, since this scene cooks up drama every week.
Nobody is saying that they are wrong for suspending him. However, we are all saying its extremely unprofessional to shame him in public like this, and berate him for his poor results seriously wtf.
I am surprised to say the least, Sjow has always made a great impression on me especially for always acting professional. I'll wait for Sjow's statement and see whats up.
On October 24 2012 05:12 Gunz24 wrote: Thought it was pretty well known all he's been doing is playing Diablo. Not surprised by this at all.
then they should just drop him. he's no good right?
Yea but who knows what the terms of his contract are. Maybe they can't terminate him until the contract period is up and this is their best recourse. All I'm saying is every time another pro mentions him the words "Diablo 3" come out next.
On October 24 2012 05:59 Fuego wrote: Imagine if a different team had posted something like this, everyone would praise them for their action and transparency. Our community really sucks sometimes.
This seems to be the right decision. If you breach the terms of your contract, you get punished.
No, every single team on earth would be criticized for publishing a statement like this. And provided there would be an actual and urgent need to address an issue like this publicly, a professional statement would be characterized by at least:
Stressing that several attempts were made to discuss the issue with the player and that, preferably, both parties came to a mutual agreement.
A brief, clear, and non-dramatic way of writing; not mentioning unnecessary internal details and leaving little room for speculations.
Not degrading the player by, for example, pointing out his latest, subpar tournament results. Seriously, wtf?
In the present case, however, it is completely unclear whether or not there have been internal discussions and what Sjow's position in this entire situation is at all. An appropriate example for a public post would be the Team Liquid/Nony statement released recently.
On October 24 2012 05:35 jdsowa wrote: Hard to blame him for being a no-sjow. On the one hand it sounds cool to make a living playing a game. But maybe not when that game is dying and neglected by its creator.
LOL - I see what you did there... but I have to agree on all your points.
We certainly do hear about disciplinary actions in other sports (football, baseball, basketball, cycling, etc.). This should be no different.
It's a little bit strange to make it public. But at the same time I think it's not that bad to punish a player who is probably on salary for not training.
On October 24 2012 06:27 roym899 wrote: It's a little bit strange to make it public. But at the same time I think it's not that bad to punish a player who is probably on salary for not training.
Why? You hear about disciplinary actions in other sports all the damn time. Why does this one have to be different?
On October 24 2012 05:47 Epoch wrote: Eclypsia is the shittiest team I've ever heard of. You are taking a non-public matter and bashing your own player publicly for publicity. Suspending him is your own business, publicising it is bad business.
Fuck your stupid team. You won't be around that much longer.
This is exactly what I was thinking, couldn't have written it better myself (the first part anyways). In the EG case, they were making it public because people had to know why he wasn't entering tournaments. I don't get what pushed eclypsia to even make a thread about this.
So now teams start to punish players and Eclypsia jumps on that PR wagon, like every PR is good PR? This team has always been one of the most unprofessional teams out there, no wonder players lose their interest in playing for them.
On October 24 2012 05:47 Epoch wrote: Eclypsia is the shittiest team I've ever heard of. You are taking a non-public matter and bashing your own player publicly for publicity. Suspending him is your own business, publicising it is bad business.
Fuck your stupid team. You won't be around that much longer.
This is exactly what I was thinking, couldn't have written it better myself (the first part anyways). In the EG case, they were making it public because people had to know why he wasn't entering tournaments. I don't get what pushed eclypsia to even make a thread about this.
Well not so much because of him not entering tournaments but more so people wouldn't go whining to sponsors. In this case EC just had positive sponsor news, so it was obviously time.
Why would you publish that? To show that you dont tolerate if your players dont train: NO. Because the other players know so or so. To show tell him a lesson: NO. You do so by not paying him, To get a little bit attention and hope you can hop on the drama train: YES!
Im sorry. The train already left without you. Wait and try to get the next drama train. GL
On October 24 2012 06:52 TheBloodyDwarf wrote: IF EC WOULD NOT HAVE MADE THIS PUBLIC, THERE WOULD BE 1000 POST THREAD ASKING WHAT THE FUCK EC IS DOING AND NOT TELLING ABOUT IT ANYTHING.
What's so wrong to get this? If SjoW doesn't play, ofc he should not get salary. When this is public, it also helps other to know what's going on.
If ec would not make this public no one would give a shit. Wait... You are kind of right. So or so there is no diffrence.
On October 24 2012 01:32 ReachTheSky wrote: Whatever. I don't even see the need to make this public. Why don't you keep internal problems on the inside and not use this as an excuse to try and gain EC some publicity. Your public relations needs some training as we've seen in the past, and now present. Someone get a hold of Incontrol.
Now the funny thing is, Incontrol knows what actually happened, and it doesn't match up to this.
Sigh...Every time I have seen Eclypsia in a post, it's either a bad thing about a player or some screw up of management. If they are honestly trying to be taken seriously, they need to get their act together. The actions of the people you have signed does affect your public image, but I am not sure why you feel the need to publicize every tiny little piece of news. Frankly, it paints you in a very unprofessional light, not to mention how you have acted in the past.
so frustrating seeing people have these opportunities and wasting them. there's so many people that would kill to be on a team with a salary playing starcraft
On October 24 2012 08:14 Flamingo777 wrote: How long has Eclypsia even been around... I've only really just been hearing about them recently.
They started February this year by hosting a series of small tournaments but it wasn't really until around March that they started to pick up players for their teams. Since then, they've had a rather... disappointing image by running a meme contest and pulling perhaps one of the worst April Fools jokes of all time.
Tons of players have joined and left their organization if that says anything about what they used to be.
On October 24 2012 04:09 herMan wrote: People in this thread are bashing Eclypsia because it's a team with a bad rep. If it was any other team, the decision would be logical. Why pay a player if he's not doing his job?
Well, maybe there's something else brewing in the background that I don't know of. Wouldn't suprise me anymore, since this scene cooks up drama every week.
Nobody is saying that they are wrong for suspending him. However, we are all saying its extremely unprofessional to shame him in public like this, and berate him for his poor results seriously wtf.
it's the same eg and liquid did recently and it's normal in normal sports.
I could understand it a fair bit if it were for him going to certain tournaments or expected at them. But then again, at least people aren´t questioning why. But should´ve been keep internal.
On October 24 2012 08:02 mastergriggy wrote: Sigh...Every time I have seen Eclypsia in a post, it's either a bad thing about a player or some screw up of management.
Don't forget the april's fool where they just pretended that their management was deceptive and the team had massive communication problems. Eclypsia sure has a brilliant PR consultant.
On October 24 2012 05:59 Fuego wrote: Imagine if a different team had posted something like this, everyone would praise them for their action and transparency. Our community really sucks sometimes.
This seems to be the right decision. If you breach the terms of your contract, you get punished.
No, every single team on earth would be criticized for publishing a statement like this. And provided there would be an actual and urgent need to address an issue like this publicly, a professional statement would be characterized by at least:
Stressing that several attempts were made to discuss the issue with the player and that, preferably, both parties came to a mutual agreement.
A brief, clear, and non-dramatic way of writing; not mentioning unnecessary internal details and leaving little room for speculations.
Not degrading the player by, for example, pointing out his latest, subpar tournament results. Seriously, wtf?
In the present case, however, it is completely unclear whether or not there have been internal discussions and what Sjow's position in this entire situation is at all. An appropriate example for a public post would be the Team Liquid/Nony statement released recently.
So because they haven't worded their statement as professionally as other long running teams they deserve all this unconditional hate? I feel like I am being forced to play devil's advocate here because everyone is blowing this whole thing completely out of proportion.
On October 24 2012 08:02 mastergriggy wrote: Sigh...Every time I have seen Eclypsia in a post, it's either a bad thing about a player or some screw up of management. If they are honestly trying to be taken seriously, they need to get their act together. The actions of the people you have signed does affect your public image, but I am not sure why you feel the need to publicize every tiny little piece of news. Frankly, it paints you in a very unprofessional light, not to mention how you have acted in the past.
I love people taking Sjow's side on this... WTFWTFWTF mind blown.
Right thing to do gj Eclypsia. Not sure about making a public announcement but i guess you dodge the shitstorm if SjoW would've decided to make a silly post about not getting paid.
its just normal to suspend a player who is not doing his work. bosses dont pay their workers for doing nothing or doing anything else just not their job.
yeah my english sucks i hope you understand what im trying to say ^^
Why is it normal to make threads about players leaving/joining/being suspended from teams daily? I don't find anything interesting about it at all. Maybe if the players were getting paid real amounts of money....
I skimmed through the 13 pages, and I didn't see a single post expressing regret that Sjow is inactive, or showing any kind of support for Sjow to get his motivation back.
But after all, why post things like "Aww, Sjow! Common, we heart you get back to that ladder!!" or "I miss your stream, where are you??" or "go Sjow, we believe!!"
when you can post things like (randomly taking the oneliners from page 3) "my god, drama again, let's go" or "Suspending players is one way for Eclypsia to make news and seem relevant I suppose. Such a joke team." or "I didn't even know that he got paid in the first place, did this really require a public announcement?"
On October 24 2012 01:44 soiii wrote: "Our player does not perform, so lets just suspend him and bash him in an official statement" - Eclypsia surely stays the biggest joke team out there.
Sjow at the moment is not playing SC2. This means we cannot pay him for being a SC2 player. If SjoW wants to come back and play we will be glad to continue. If he doesn't however he will not be a paid member of Eclypsia. We believe we can resolve the issue so at the moment we have just ordered a suspension rather than removal. If SjoW wants to leave the team he is free to go. If he wants to return he is more than welcome but as it stands we cannot pay somebody who is not playing the game they are paid for.
well, if this statement is true then it seems fair to me
like, its not good for a team to punish a player for slumping and not producing results. everyone has dry spells. so at first i didnt really think it was fair, but in Ruurk's statement he says SjoW isnt even playing the game at all
nothing wrong with slumping and still getting paid to keep you afloat so you can get back up on the high horse, but if you're not even playing the game and practicing why get paid?
Anyone else feel like Eclypsia is constantly the example of what NOT to do if you're running a new team in SC2?
They've been a joke in my mind ever since April Fools. And I'm not one to normally criticize... As a matter of fact this is the first time I've ever posted anything about them as far as I can remember. :S
For clarification in this case the mistake is making this public. We don't need to know about this... Things like this are private matters.
On October 24 2012 08:55 sOOnMaNiAc wrote: its just normal to suspend a player who is not doing his work. bosses dont pay their workers for doing nothing or doing anything else just not their job.
yeah my english sucks i hope you understand what im trying to say ^^
yeah but the boss doesn't go on a fucking forum or a newspaper and make a press release about it
On October 24 2012 08:55 sOOnMaNiAc wrote: its just normal to suspend a player who is not doing his work. bosses dont pay their workers for doing nothing or doing anything else just not their job.
yeah my english sucks i hope you understand what im trying to say ^^
The problem here is not his suspension itself (even though there might be more story to it considering Sjow's post earlier in this thread), but that EC for some reason decided to make a public thread about it and did so in a pretty unprofessional manner:
we can’t but regret his lack of results and motivation. Some may for example remember his elimination from the Battle at Ministry of Win in August right from the first group stage on a 0-2/1-4 score.
This really isn't how you should be treating your players.
That explains why I haven't seen much of sjow lately. He hasn't even been playing. If what they are saying I'd true then the team is in the right; why pay a player who isn't playing?
I Agree with Eclypsia with the decision to suspend sjow (assuming what's been said is true and there's nothing deeper) but agree with the forum that this didn't need to be a thread (unless sjow has been bm'ing Eclypsia over it around the web)
Yeah.. If I played in a team that bashes me in public I would also feel more motivated.. What a joke. If he decides to continue playing SC2 I hope he will find a better team. Unfortunate that Eclypsia just keeps making bad public statements..
On October 24 2012 11:10 Seldentar wrote: Anyone else feel like Eclypsia is constantly the example of what NOT to do if you're running a new team in SC2?
They've been a joke in my mind ever since April Fools. And I'm not one to normally criticize... As a matter of fact this is the first time I've ever posted anything about them as far as I can remember. :S
For clarification in this case the mistake is making this public. We don't need to know about this... Things like this are private matters.
Well, i could put all my money line and say that if ec would not done this public there would be thread by SjoW or somebody else that he doesnt get paid. I know this community. This time ec was realy smart, they wanted less drama and shit talking about ec. If I would have been EC manager, I had make same.
On October 24 2012 09:22 Cascade wrote: I skimmed through the 13 pages, and I didn't see a single post expressing regret that Sjow is inactive, or showing any kind of support for Sjow to get his motivation back.
But after all, why post things like "Aww, Sjow! Common, we heart you get back to that ladder!!" or "I miss your stream, where are you??" or "go Sjow, we believe!!"
when you can post things like (randomly taking the oneliners from page 3) "my god, drama again, let's go" or "Suspending players is one way for Eclypsia to make news and seem relevant I suppose. Such a joke team." or "I didn't even know that he got paid in the first place, did this really require a public announcement?"
Good old SC2 General knows what's important.
I'm sorry but have you even read the whole thread or are you blatantly taking for granted that this is what happened?
Your post is incredibly ignorant and borderline stupid.
What is your opinion? Stop trolling and get real. READ what people are posting.
On October 24 2012 11:10 Seldentar wrote: Anyone else feel like Eclypsia is constantly the example of what NOT to do if you're running a new team in SC2?
They've been a joke in my mind ever since April Fools. And I'm not one to normally criticize... As a matter of fact this is the first time I've ever posted anything about them as far as I can remember. :S
For clarification in this case the mistake is making this public. We don't need to know about this... Things like this are private matters.
Well, i could put all my money line and say that if ec would not done this public there would be thread by SjoW or somebody else that he doesnt get paid. I know this community. This time ec was realy smart, they wanted less drama and shit talking about ec. If I would have been EC manager, I had make same.
Oh come on. If they wouldn't have made this public in the first place, it would be very stupid of Sjow to do so himself. And it would hardly look bad for the EC manager if they mad a single post saying exactly what this OP says in such a thread.
I'm so disappointed in this community. Normally I never comment on these things, I did earlier in this thread and then decided to just read what comes out. But it's impossible to keep quite when people are jumping to these stupid conclusions.
We are very sorry for the inconvenience it may cause but we feel strongly about punishing a player who has not honored any of the commitments he had signed up for.
SjoW is just lazy and plays Diablo instead of SC, he's not a good player anyway so I don't know why even bother making a deal out of this. And if you do blame SjoW and not his team, because he has actually been stupid enough to not play SC2 and only D3 lately.
While the action seems justified, I feel like this could have been dealt with differently. The management should have just sat down with him to talk about his plans and ambitions for SC2, and release him from his contract (with a clause that he won't sign for another team for a certain period) if he doesn't plan on playing SC2 seriously anymore. If this is just a temporary loss of motivation or discipline, they should be supporting and figuring out how to help him rather than penalising him so severely, and publicly at that. All this does is cast more negative light on Eclypsia, which we can all agree, they could do without.
On October 24 2012 01:47 Tyree wrote: Is it not brutal to suspend a progamer considering majority of them if not all of them except 2-3 koreans at best do not make all that much money?
I understand agreements and such but 30 days without any pay in a field that already pays peanuts and a glass of water is pretty rough, hard to motivate people that way
Just wanted to clafiry one part of what you say: Up until KeSPA teams entered SC2, I can assure you that non-korean Sc2 players were making SIGNIFICANTLY more money than Koreans, in salary.
Anyway, the way this was posted was incredibly un-professional - I didn't even realize it was an official statement lol
There should be links to their website, a statement from management, a statement from SjoW preferably, and more effort should have been put into this if they decided it was even worth mentioning in public.
It seems to me that they only released this information for the sake of publicity and to look more professional. This doesn't seem like something that can't be resolved privately without posting a passive-aggressive statement. I'm not even going to get into how unprofessional this looks.
Just because EG made a press release on suspending Stephano doesn't mean you had to make one about SjoW.
On October 24 2012 17:18 NexCa wrote: Correct choice if you ask me, same goes for normal ppl with normal jobs --> you're not working, you dont' get paid, easy as that
I think most people here are not discussing about the fact, but about the way they posted it.
I agree with the reason for the suspension, but the way they posted it... well, just doesn't fit at all.
On October 24 2012 17:18 NexCa wrote: Correct choice if you ask me, same goes for normal ppl with normal jobs --> you're not working, you dont' get paid, easy as that
What? You prolly dont have the same normal jobs I've had. As far as I know as long as you do the minimum required you'll be paid same amount as the guy who works his ass off.
That said just absolutely brutal post by Eclypsia. I don't see how it's good for anyone. It tells one of their top players don't care anymore, shows they suck at picking players who will help their team grow and just make the team look bad because they show they don't know how to manage a team.
Just coming from Eclypsia, I havent read everything about what happened with their first wave of players, but they don't look like the kind of team I'd want to work for not knowing if I'll actually be paid by them even if I do what I have to do.
The players really have no leverage at this point. They are basically puppet and teams can just do whatever they want with them. If you're not on a top team you never know if at the end of the month your team will disband, stop paying you have a few late payment. If the team stops making money players are the first paying the price. If companies can't make it work they just pack it up and move on,
Maybe the suspension is totally justified, but the thread just make everybody look bad in this not only Sjow. Hopefully it's been discussed internally and Slow really didn't show any effort to play and deserve his paycheck, but it didn't have to come out like this.
If Sjow has been afk and not honoring his contract then I cant blame his team for taking action. And I find it interesting that we as for more transparancy in e-sports and among the team but you get several pages of whine about the fact that they go public. I agree Eclypsia could have been more professional about it and gotten a comment from Sjow himself but I think its good that we know whats going on and not left wondering where Sjow is for a month.
well EC is right but the statement is just low it looks not even like one next time make it look more "official" but sure no work no money ... what you guys expect ? damn sensless ec bashing
On October 24 2012 09:22 Cascade wrote: I skimmed through the 13 pages, and I didn't see a single post expressing regret that Sjow is inactive, or showing any kind of support for Sjow to get his motivation back.
But after all, why post things like "Aww, Sjow! Common, we heart you get back to that ladder!!" or "I miss your stream, where are you??" or "go Sjow, we believe!!"
when you can post things like (randomly taking the oneliners from page 3) "my god, drama again, let's go" or "Suspending players is one way for Eclypsia to make news and seem relevant I suppose. Such a joke team." or "I didn't even know that he got paid in the first place, did this really require a public announcement?"
Good old SC2 General knows what's important.
I'm sorry but have you even read the whole thread or are you blatantly taking for granted that this is what happened?
I've read the first 5 pages or so,a nd skimmed the rest. Ie scrolled through and read first sentence or two of each post. Enough to get the gist fo most posts. As I wrote, I saw no post "expressing regret that Sjow is inactive, or showing any kind of support for Sjow to get his motivation back". If I missed any, feel free to show me. Even if there are a few, the fact that they are so few still makes my point valid.
Your post is incredibly ignorant and borderline stupid.
Ignorant of what? Of what happened between Sjow and EC in this case? Of how TL normally reacts to this kind of threads? I gladly admit ignorance in the first (as most others), but I think I know how these threads go normally (again, as do most others). And the main subject is usually not to help Sjow find his motivation for sc2 again.
Did you read and understand my post btw? Also no reason to point out that my IQ is below the TL average of 158 (and it seems you are well above that), that's just rude. You should be above that.
What is your opinion? Stop trolling and get real. READ what people are posting.
I don't care much for Sjow or EC, so I don't really care. I think part of my point is that no one else really care either. People are just attracted to drama and pitchforks, even if they don't care the slightest about the people involved. The fact that I read (skimmed) through 13 pages despite not caring makes me the same, which I'm not very proud of.
I'm so disappointed in this community. Normally I never comment on these things, I did earlier in this thread and then decided to just read what comes out. But it's impossible to keep quite when people are jumping to these stupid conclusions.
Yeah, it's very rare that posting in these threads give you much satisfaction. They move too fast, and people are often too angry at X, or convinced by Y, to stop and listen. Again, not saying I'm any different, and maybe it goes for you as well.
So well, essentially I'm just small talking with the rest of the mob here. How has your day been? Sharpened the pitchfork? I got this special torch ready that I thought I could use to put fire to something. :D
Good call by Eclypsia. Imagine this happening at your regular job. It would be really unfair to those playing daily, joining cups and streaming as much as possible if Eclypsia kept paying Sjow's salary, as in.. a total smack in the face. If you allow Sjow to slack and get paid, Eclypsia should allow everybody in the team to slack and get paid too.. I don't see how that is good for the team however ...
And for all the people asking for a link to the website:
Not sure if mentioned but........ Sjow playing some dota2 with Select on Sneyking's stream. I'm assuming we are going to expect a thread similar to SC and Select soon. (speculation, not fact!)
On October 24 2012 01:32 ReachTheSky wrote: Whatever. I don't even see the need to make this public. Why don't you keep internal problems on the inside and not use this as an excuse to try and gain EC some publicity. Your public relations needs some training as we've seen in the past, and now present. Someone get a hold of Incontrol.
Imo, they made the announcement public so that it could be explained properly. Had they decided to keep it to themselves, and somehow it got out that sjow wasnt getting paid for 30days people would freak out and the drama would be 10 times worse until eclypsia explained themselves. At least now people know up front that sjow is not being paid due to him not playing SC2.
Seems pretty pointless to tell the public about this internal matter. Seems like they are trying to put pressure on Sjow by taking it public. Very odd way to deal with a personnel matter in your organization lol. If Sjow didnt have advance warning this would be a public suspension that would make it even more bizarre. The Stephano situation only warranted a thread because he did something in public that he shouldn't have.
He should just retire. Can't stay on the fence forever, at one point you go to one side or the other. And there is nothing more to be had for Sjow on the professional Starcraft side of the fence.
Sjow is right now on stream at http://www.aftonbladet.se/nojesbladet/spela/esport/article15655870.ab saying how he has not been playing SC2 at all basically for quite some time. Seems like he is officially going to leave SC2 progaming very soon even though he is playing in this tournament. He said he just enjoys coming to the event for other reasons, not for playing.
Another free ticket not to play an amazing player such as Sjow. I hope that SC2 continues to die as the competitive scene is being overthrown by DOTA and LoL each and every day. Such a a shitty imbalanced game and people pour thousands of hours into the game yet they still get treated like a Chinese Sweat shop worker because they made a mistake like any human would.
On October 28 2012 05:05 ellirc wrote: Sjow is right now on stream at http://www.aftonbladet.se/nojesbladet/spela/esport/article15655870.ab saying how he has not been playing SC2 at all basically for quite some time. Seems like he is officially going to leave SC2 progaming very soon even though he is playing in this tournament. He said he just enjoys coming to the event for other reasons, not for playing.
Looks like people can put their pitchforks down and eclypsia was right in suspending sjow as it looks like he plans to quit anyways, so shouldn't be paid for not playing.
On October 28 2012 05:10 Sovern wrote: Another free ticket not to play an amazing player such as Sjow. I hope that SC2 continues to die as the competitive scene is being overthrown by DOTA and LoL each and every day. Such a a shitty imbalanced game and people pour thousands of hours into the game yet they still get treated like a Chinese Sweat shop worker because they made a mistake like any human would.
Sjow should switch ti DOTA, fuck SC2.
So if that's how you feel ... why are you posting on this site?
On October 28 2012 05:05 ellirc wrote: Sjow is right now on stream at http://www.aftonbladet.se/nojesbladet/spela/esport/article15655870.ab saying how he has not been playing SC2 at all basically for quite some time. Seems like he is officially going to leave SC2 progaming very soon even though he is playing in this tournament. He said he just enjoys coming to the event for other reasons, not for playing.
Looks like people can put their pitchforks down and eclypsia was right in suspending sjow as it looks like he plans to quit anyways, so shouldn't be paid for not playing.
I want to reiterate that I agree with the suspension, but not going public with it like this.
On October 28 2012 05:05 ellirc wrote: Sjow is right now on stream at http://www.aftonbladet.se/nojesbladet/spela/esport/article15655870.ab saying how he has not been playing SC2 at all basically for quite some time. Seems like he is officially going to leave SC2 progaming very soon even though he is playing in this tournament. He said he just enjoys coming to the event for other reasons, not for playing.
Looks like people can put their pitchforks down and eclypsia was right in suspending sjow as it looks like he plans to quit anyways, so shouldn't be paid for not playing.
I want to reiterate that I agree with the suspension, but not going public with it like this.
I like the transparency and it's a refreshing change for esports as most like to be cloak and dagger and keep things secret. Real sports publicize internal suspensions all the time.
On October 28 2012 05:05 ellirc wrote: Sjow is right now on stream at http://www.aftonbladet.se/nojesbladet/spela/esport/article15655870.ab saying how he has not been playing SC2 at all basically for quite some time. Seems like he is officially going to leave SC2 progaming very soon even though he is playing in this tournament. He said he just enjoys coming to the event for other reasons, not for playing.
Looks like people can put their pitchforks down and eclypsia was right in suspending sjow as it looks like he plans to quit anyways, so shouldn't be paid for not playing.
I want to reiterate that I agree with the suspension, but not going public with it like this.
I like the transparency and it's a refreshing change for esports as most like to be cloak and dagger and keep things secret. Real sports publicize internal suspensions all the time.
Like EG did with Stephano, although that was of course of a different nature.
This thread just shows that no matter what Eclypsia do, people here will hate on them. They are kind of fucked.
Dignitas manager Newman stated on the GD show that the reason they got rid of him was because he wanted more money + he was only playing Diablo 3 and wasn't practicing sc2 at all. So I'm not really suprised, I've also heard he hasnt showed for a lot of other tournaments he's been signed up to (for example esports-sm qualifiers).
tl is nothing different from reddit, 15 pages and just 2 of them have comments actually regarding the topic at hand, the other 13 are mindlessly bashing EC for things they are not to bash for.
in real life, if you don't do your job, you don't get paid. Sjow probably signed a contract that obliged him to train/stream which he didn't fulfill. you know in the real world you get fired faster than a photon particle if you simply stop doing your job. so in a way he is lucky that he is still in the team.
doesn't matter what the reputation of the team is (note that all the drama was basically caused by monkey level intelligent reddit and tl readers... like calling a VISIBLE stream auto play on the page a scam lol), and nobody cares that you like sjow, if he doesn't get money for doing nothing that is not a huge un-justice in the world.
reading the responses in this thread makes me realize what kind of retarded trash people write letters to sponsors etc.
I honestly don't know why they had to announce this. I agree with the consequences Sjow got, but I don't think it had to be announced. The announcement itself wasn't very professional either.
I mean, they used SarenS's account? Step it up, Eclypsia, if you want to improve your reputation.
Honestly, why do mods tolerate 15 pages full of people who can't read and understand what this is about and posting the same bullshit worded differently over and over? Eclypsia has good reason to suspend Sjow apparently and making it public is not wrong at all.
On October 24 2012 01:47 Insoleet wrote: learn to read dudes. he is suspended for not participating in any tournament, for not streaming, for not going to ministry of win house.... he doesn't even try. you can't pay a player who is afk, that's retarded.
figures, only 3 people in this thread had this outlook on the situation, rather than the more likely "eclypsia is a joke" (which i agree with). 2 were from france.
i guess this is why french businesses in general and rules of contracts in france and between french entities and external entities are a fucking joke. they tolerate shitty behavior. is it a cultural thing in france that businesses are allowed to be fucking jokes and not play by any semblance of rules? i know businesses around the world break rules but they at least have to do it in secret and do get caught/punished. i see people from multiple countries including other europeans disgusted with their behavior.
On October 30 2012 02:09 transcendent one wrote: lol so many stupid children here.
in real life, if you don't do your job, you don't get paid. Sjow probably signed a contract that obliged him to train/stream which he didn't fulfill. you know in the real world you get fired faster than a photon particle if you simply stop doing your job. so in a way he is lucky that he is still in the team.
doesn't matter what the reputation of the team is (note that all the drama was basically caused by monkey level intelligent reddit and tl readers... like calling a VISIBLE stream auto play on the page a scam lol), and nobody cares that you like sjow, if he doesn't get money for doing nothing that is not a huge un-justice in the world.
reading the responses in this thread makes me realize what kind of retarded trash people write letters to sponsors etc.
Have you read the thread and taken notice of what most people, including Jinro, were disliking about the OP?
Hm seems harsh for the terms of agreement, but 30 days is enough time to decide if one wants to continue to play. I'm sorry for his Sjow you are a nice and great player, all the best in convincing your team you deserve pay. *PS: Beat someone famous, Idra or Stephano, etc, and back into it *
Sounds like people would have preferred a thread with the same title, but an OP that said, "We're suspending SjoW temporarily..."
I like what they did: make a claim, then back it up. If they didn't give the back up, everyone would have just cried out about how they did it for no reason and how crappy of a team they are.
EPT
lol
but I have to agree on all your points.
