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smOOthMayDie
United States997 Posts
When looking at the brackets for group play for DreamHack EIZO Open: Bucharest, we can all see that there are no players representing apeX. Source: http://dhopen.binarybeast.com/xSC21210042#groups Am I the only one who's disappointed? I was really looking forward to a strong showing from the former oGs players. EDIT: The players who were supposed to go were Inca, Vines, Top, and Jookto. 
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Monochromatic
United States997 Posts
 Now who will make DTs? | ||
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SilSol
Sweden2744 Posts
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jakethesnake
Canada4948 Posts
Edit: in case anyone is wondering who was planning on going, it was jookTo, Inca, TOP, and VINES. | ||
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xuanzue
Colombia1747 Posts
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Atrbyg
United States513 Posts
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nOlifeTERRAN
United States153 Posts
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Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
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SHOOG
United States1639 Posts
Would really like to know what caused this. I hope it's nothing sketchy. We don't need anymore drama right now. | ||
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TR
2320 Posts
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Kznn
Brazil9072 Posts
thats sad | ||
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Jaaaaasper
United States10225 Posts
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smOOthMayDie
United States997 Posts
According to their facebook: "Sorry for the Lack of Updates, but its really hard to get Wi-Fi over here at EGL8, Manchester. :S All apeX Players and Teams could win their Matches so far, we´ll update you further as soon as we´re going to have Wi-Fi again!" But this alone doesn't say much, it's not hard to go to a local internet cafe, or somewhere with accessible wifi. :/ | ||
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garlicface
Canada4196 Posts
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kixer
Germany33 Posts
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nihlon
Sweden5581 Posts
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GumBa
United Kingdom31935 Posts
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Skelith
Sweden101 Posts
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SfynX
United Kingdom83 Posts
Hofven strikes again | ||
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Acronysis
872 Posts
Is it because they couldn't accomodate their transport? Is it just bad management that couldn't organize it properly? Ugh. . . i'm way to drama'd out already, hopefully there is a simple, good explanation for this. I'm sure they'll speak soon. . . for their own sake hah Edit: Just listened to the SoTG cast where they gave a little brief on whats happened . . . bad management of course. A shame. | ||
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Domsn
Germany1 Post
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yOngKIN
Korea (North)656 Posts
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Lysanias
Netherlands8351 Posts
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GunPaladin
United States1205 Posts
Here's the original announcement thread just in case some missed it: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=373580 | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12022 Posts
On October 19 2012 10:05 smOOthMayDie wrote: I feel as if it might have been a communication problem. According to their facebook: "Sorry for the Lack of Updates, but its really hard to get Wi-Fi over here at EGL8, Manchester. :S All apeX Players and Teams could win their Matches so far, we´ll update you further as soon as we´re going to have Wi-Fi again!" But this alone doesn't say much, it's not hard to go to a local internet cafe, or somewhere with accessible wifi. :/ Internet cafe in England? O_O I've never heard of such a place. | ||
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Drake
Germany6146 Posts
On October 19 2012 22:53 Qikz wrote: Internet cafe in England? O_O I've never heard of such a place. ^^ in german too nearly every internet cafe is gone since 2008 ? it was on every corner from 1999+ on ^^ well perhaps mc donalds have internet always xD or you dont have that too ? | ||
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desRow
Canada2654 Posts
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Musicus
Germany23576 Posts
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Sovano
United States1503 Posts
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hhS
Chile33 Posts
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Zaphid
Czech Republic1860 Posts
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tsiisus
Finland854 Posts
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lessQQmorePEWPEW
Jamaica921 Posts
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Shana
Indonesia1814 Posts
Well, faster than I thought. Hope they can find a new team soon. | ||
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xSilverx
Sweden76 Posts
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Ragnarork
France9034 Posts
On October 19 2012 22:58 desRow wrote: and the cracks begin to show WUB WUB WUB I don't understand the... what the... ? huh ? | ||
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goiflin
Canada1218 Posts
What a shame, I wanted to see inca go... | ||
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drooL
United Kingdom2108 Posts
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Rannasha
Netherlands2398 Posts
Is there actually someone in Korea with knowledge of what foreign teams are reputable who can help players before they jump in with teams with shady histories? | ||
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drooL
United Kingdom2108 Posts
On October 19 2012 22:58 desRow wrote: and the cracks begin to show WUB WUB WUB Hahaha, this made me laugh! | ||
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Musicus
Germany23576 Posts
On October 19 2012 23:40 xSilverx wrote: This is a bit late news though, Hellspawn tweeted about it way before Xlord and since Hellspawn is one of the DHW admins you can trust him when he tweets " All the korean players from APEX have withdrawn their paticipation from Bucharest" XlorD never tweeted anything! OP confused XlorD and Hellspawn, don't ask me how  . | ||
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LovE-
United States1963 Posts
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Fujikura
United States337 Posts
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xsnac
Barbados1365 Posts
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pPingu
Switzerland2892 Posts
Guess they might have "left" the team | ||
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redc
Australia81 Posts
What a week it's been. | ||
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Kenny_oro
Germany368 Posts
"yeah~ i want, but now very busy because team problem :D" | ||
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Shadow_Dog
Canada427 Posts
On October 19 2012 22:44 Lysanias wrote: So this team already short on money ? I really hope that that is not the case and that there are other reasons for it. They are not short on money. They set up some office somewhere in DE, Munich I think. I've heard from ex-apeX mangers that besides the office being really expensive, they're paying ~6k/month for internet and phones alone. The owner is really rich because of some family business or something. Anyways, I think the owner went into the business expecting to make some money out of it, as he was taking some percentage from their CoD teams winnings. This is kind of silly because some of the prize pools for CoD are really small (~3k for first place at the most recent EGL event). So they have money but he does not want to give it to players or something like that. The company is pretty whack and as long as they have the same problems (booking plane tickets at the very last, last minute, management - player communication, etc.) I would say that players are going to be leaving really fast, and a lot of people have. | ||
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Integra
Sweden5626 Posts
On October 20 2012 00:30 Shadow_Dog wrote: They are not short on money. They set up some office somewhere in DE, Munich I think. I've heard from ex-apeX mangers that besides the office being really expensive, they're paying ~6k/month for internet and phones alone. The owner is really rich because of some family business or something. Anyways, I think the owner went into the business expecting to make some money out of it, as he was taking some percentage from their CoD teams winnings. This is kind of silly because some of the prize pools for CoD are really small (~3k for first place at the most recent EGL event). So they have money but he does not want to give it to players or something like that. The company is pretty whack and as long as they have the same problems (booking plane tickets at the very last, last minute, management - player communication, etc.) I would say that players are going to be leaving really fast, and a lot of people have. I've pretty much heard the same story about this particular team; Basically they have money and resources, its just that they don't seem to give a damn, only reason is that they want to make a quick buck. | ||
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kixer
Germany33 Posts
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furo
Germany449 Posts
On October 19 2012 22:26 Skelith wrote: shady team is shady -.- yea its common knowledge (at least in the german szene) that apex management sucks too bad that koreans are in such a bad spot (all-in on esports) that they take every straw a shame | ||
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Ridlah
5 Posts
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XaMaXaM
Germany113 Posts
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HomeWorld
Romania903 Posts
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SHOOG
United States1639 Posts
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Laneir
United States1160 Posts
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Majynx
United States1431 Posts
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digmouse
China6329 Posts
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xuanzue
Colombia1747 Posts
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AlLaboUtME
16 Posts
On October 19 2012 22:58 desRow wrote: and the cracks begin to show WUB WUB WUB I love you even more now desRow | ||
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mikedebo
Canada4341 Posts
Also, you'll never know if Inca is at the event or not. He's fucking CLOAKED | ||
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zOverdose
Korea (South)8 Posts
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fortheGG
United Kingdom1002 Posts
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Nuclease
United States1049 Posts
This really indicates a sad trend of these new teams arising out of nowhere, and then badly managing themselves and screwing over the players. It's really a shame that this is still so common, and shouldn't be allowed to happen. Players need to start being more aware and people need to start calling these people on their bullshit. | ||
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malady
United States600 Posts
On October 20 2012 00:33 Integra wrote: I've pretty much heard the same story about this particular team; Basically they have money and resources, its just that they don't seem to give a damn, only reason is that they want to make a quick buck. at the same time you don't start a team to lose money although I'm not condoning this teams practices just saying imagine if you invested your personal money into it.. it must be stressful but if I had money I wouldn't start a team lol I'm smarter than that | ||
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MauliSchaumi
Germany21 Posts
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IPA
United States3206 Posts
There are dozens of cautionary tales littering SC2 (and eSports') history. New teams that promise much are usually too good to be true. Makes me appreciate the stalwarts of the scene that much more to be honest -- the solid, honest teams that make it work. | ||
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xuanzue
Colombia1747 Posts
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Zerg.Zilla
Hungary5029 Posts
On October 19 2012 22:58 desRow wrote: and the cracks begin to show WUB WUB WUB Hey you!Yes you!...i hope i can get a picture with u this weekend :D | ||
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chadissilent
Canada1187 Posts
On October 20 2012 01:21 IPA wrote: Not sure why players just "trust" organizations like this. If there is a contract in place, take legal action. If there was never a contract....you deserve all the shady shit happening. There are dozens of cautionary tales littering SC2 (and eSports') history. New teams that promise much are usually too good to be true. Makes me appreciate the stalwarts of the scene that much more to be honest -- the solid, honest teams that make it work. Yeah, there really seems to be a premise of over-promise and under-deliver. apeX is an extremely wealthy team, their structure is much like that of Quantic. Incredibly wealthy owner starting a team on venture capital. Our team motto is pretty much the opposite of apeX and similar teams. Under promise and over deliver. That leaves you with players that are surprised/happy when you do something for them rather than you fulfilling their expectations. It leads to a much happier an closer team, although you may not immediately attract allstar 'hired guns'. | ||
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zev318
Canada4306 Posts
On October 20 2012 01:13 fortheGG wrote: hope this is a personal thing and not the sponsor not having money they're not going because apex has to use the money to pay morrow's salary. morrow confirmed on his twitter. /sarcasm i think its more than likely a money issue. | ||
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anatem
Romania1369 Posts
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Greendotz
United Kingdom2053 Posts
On October 19 2012 22:48 GunPaladin wrote: In my opinion this is strike one, I really hope this was just a fluke and that they'll be able to give the players the support they deserve. Strike one? lol, if anyone takes Apex as a serious business after this they're simply kidding themselves. We've all heard the stories from former players of different games saying how Apex still owes them money, they wait until one day before the event to say "lol j/k, we're sending no one to DreamHack". Are they seriously trying to convince us that they didn't know a month ago that there was no way they could afford the plane tickets. Also the whole "can't update cause internet so bad in Manchester". Okay UK's internet is shoddy but they can't even go to a frikin Starbucks with a lap top and update a twitter account? Bullshit, seems like a smash and scam job to me. | ||
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furo
Germany449 Posts
On October 20 2012 01:21 IPA wrote: Not sure why players just "trust" organizations like this. If there is a contract in place, take legal action. If there was never a contract....you deserve all the shady shit happening. There are dozens of cautionary tales littering SC2 (and eSports') history. New teams that promise much are usually too good to be true. Makes me appreciate the stalwarts of the scene that much more to be honest -- the solid, honest teams that make it work. your post sounds pretty naive but i'll just asume you dont know any better these players CANT get a different team, so they fall for the false promises of a foreign team they dont know. they are not getting payed teamless, so they join in the hopes that they get at least SOME money | ||
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renaissanceMAN
United States1840 Posts
On October 20 2012 01:00 mikedebo wrote: Hang on folks, my ROFLCOPTER has arrived! Also, you'll never know if Inca is at the event or not. He's fucking CLOAKED bahahaha | ||
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shid0x
Korea (South)5014 Posts
Get rich or die tryin' Money, Money Get rich or die tryin' Get diamonds and celebrity Be famous or die tryin' The power, the luxury Be a star or die tryin' | ||
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MrMedic
Canada452 Posts
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xuanzue
Colombia1747 Posts
https://twitter.com/teamrazer https://twitter.com/360_visions https://twitter.com/squidgrip https://twitter.com/gam3rglov3s | ||
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Yello
Germany7411 Posts
On October 20 2012 03:00 xuanzue wrote: I know so few people care about those players, but those who care, can tell to the sponsors about that shady team https://twitter.com/teamrazer https://twitter.com/360_visions https://twitter.com/squidgrip https://twitter.com/gam3rglov3s How about waiting for a goddamn official statement by the team or at least by the players before telling the sponsors again? You don't know anything about what is actually happening and you heard some people on TL say that apeX is shady and you immediately want to message sponsors? Man, just wait until things are cleared up and if it comes out that the team is at fault you can message the sponsors. But don't be so fast with your judgment... and don't immediately start this crap again please.... | ||
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creamyturtle
United States487 Posts
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IPA
United States3206 Posts
On October 20 2012 02:33 furo wrote: your post sounds pretty naive but i'll just asume you dont know any better these players CANT get a different team, so they fall for the false promises of a foreign team they dont know. they are not getting payed teamless, so they join in the hopes that they get at least SOME money My post was not naive in the slightest. A player signing on to an unproven team and expecting money or paid travel -- THAT'S naive. I don't think you understood what I was saying but I'll assume english isn't your first language. | ||
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yeeshdontjudgeme
146 Posts
On October 20 2012 03:16 IPA wrote: My post was not naive in the slightest. A player signing on to an unproven team and expecting money or paid travel -- THAT'S naive. I don't think you understood what I was saying but I'll assume english isn't your first language. Actually he did understand what you meant. He recognizes that there are honest teams out there, but they're usually more elite. Thus, players like VINES, TOP, MorroW, etc. can't get in them without asking for an extremely low salary. However, suddenly an unknown team comes about and promises them a ridiculous salary and they just take it without researching. That's what he meant. But I do agree that you're not naive in the slightest. | ||
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xuanzue
Colombia1747 Posts
On October 20 2012 03:10 Yello wrote: How about waiting for a goddamn official statement by the team or at least by the players before telling the sponsors again? You don't know anything about what is actually happening and you heard some people on TL say that apeX is shady and you immediately want to message sponsors? Man, just wait until things are cleared up and if it comes out that the team is at fault you can message the sponsors. But don't be so fast with your judgment... and don't immediately start this crap again please.... I know the korean players will not be in DH Bucharest, and they are changing their twitter account. it's enough evidence for me to conclude that apex is a scammer team. simply, remove players with only a day before DH, it shows incompetence at best cases. The fact that it has never explained what happened to the players demanding payment, is a way to accept the money they stole. and finally the pathetic excuse saying "I have no internet" removes all the good assumptions. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ROJup.png) | ||
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nayc
Germany42 Posts
On October 19 2012 10:05 smOOthMayDie wrote: I feel as if it might have been a communication problem. According to their facebook: "Sorry for the Lack of Updates, but its really hard to get Wi-Fi over here at EGL8, Manchester. :S All apeX Players and Teams could win their Matches so far, we´ll update you further as soon as we´re going to have Wi-Fi again!" But this alone doesn't say much, it's not hard to go to a local internet cafe, or somewhere with accessible wifi. :/ ... or get 3G contract or roaming for a week to stay in touch with fans... cant be too expensive | ||
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PsyChoRo
Romania85 Posts
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Pulimuli
Sweden2766 Posts
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ThomasjServo
15244 Posts
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Forgottenfrog
United States1268 Posts
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Admiral Adama
United States186 Posts
On October 20 2012 01:45 chadissilent wrote: Yeah, there really seems to be a premise of over-promise and under-deliver. apeX is an extremely wealthy team, their structure is much like that of Quantic. Incredibly wealthy owner starting a team on venture capital. Our team motto is pretty much the opposite of apeX and similar teams. Under promise and over deliver. That leaves you with players that are surprised/happy when you do something for them rather than you fulfilling their expectations. It leads to a much happier an closer team, although you may not immediately attract allstar 'hired guns'. Drone is quite right on this. This has always been our philosophy and approach with Clarity Gaming and one of the main factors in why players have been consistently approaching us. There's a lot of sentiment in this thread that new teams aren't trustworthy and in this case I'd argue strongly that teams like apeX are the exception to the rule. There's simply no excuse for a team to pick up players, promise exorbitant salaries and consistent travel and then re-neg immediately after. You either have the capability, or you don't. If you don't, why on Earth would you promise otherwise? | ||
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Doubting
Canada981 Posts
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Roflhaxx
Korea (South)1244 Posts
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Pimpmuckl
Germany528 Posts
Still really sad, looked forward to see InCa play :D | ||
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Nazeron
Canada1046 Posts
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yoshi245
United States2969 Posts
On October 19 2012 09:25 zergtossy wrote: So.. the team really is a sham? First question I was gonna ask too. I wondered what happened... | ||
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Falconblade
United States1035 Posts
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Champi
1422 Posts
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LeSioN
United States325 Posts
On October 19 2012 10:05 smOOthMayDie wrote: I feel as if it might have been a communication problem. According to their facebook: "Sorry for the Lack of Updates, but its really hard to get Wi-Fi over here at EGL8, Manchester. :S All apeX Players and Teams could win their Matches so far, we´ll update you further as soon as we´re going to have Wi-Fi again!" But this alone doesn't say much, it's not hard to go to a local internet cafe, or somewhere with accessible wifi. :/ so apex is managed by homeless people? how can you run an esports team and not have access to the internet? What is the point in doing this? it cant be a scam because where is the money???? it just boggles my mind. | ||
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Vundox
United States182 Posts
On October 19 2012 09:13 Monochromatic wrote: Aww, I wanted to see inca win Now who will make DTs? geoff robinson | ||
Shellshock
United States97276 Posts
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AssyrianKing
Australia2111 Posts
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MarCoon
Germany493 Posts
On October 20 2012 00:30 Shadow_Dog wrote: They are not short on money. They set up some office somewhere in DE, Munich I think. I've heard from ex-apeX mangers that besides the office being really expensive, they're paying ~6k/month for internet and phones alone. The owner is really rich because of some family business or something. Anyways, I think the owner went into the business expecting to make some money out of it, as he was taking some percentage from their CoD teams winnings. This is kind of silly because some of the prize pools for CoD are really small (~3k for first place at the most recent EGL event). So they have money but he does not want to give it to players or something like that. The company is pretty whack and as long as they have the same problems (booking plane tickets at the very last, last minute, management - player communication, etc.) I would say that players are going to be leaving really fast, and a lot of people have. If they really are in Munich I can help them if they want to :o | ||
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cost2010
Germany46 Posts
On October 20 2012 03:00 xuanzue wrote: I know so few people care about those players, but those who care, can tell to the sponsors about that shady team https://twitter.com/teamrazer https://twitter.com/360_visions https://twitter.com/squidgrip https://twitter.com/gam3rglov3s How does it help the players if the sponsors pull their support? Less available money usually does not translate into players getting sent to more international tournaments. | ||
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r00ty
Germany1051 Posts
On October 20 2012 18:50 cost2010 wrote: How does it help the players if the sponsors pull their support? Less available money usually does not translate into players getting sent to more international tournaments. That's not what it's about. It's about the money landing where it is deserved. There are teams out there who would put it to better use, don't you think? | ||
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xuanzue
Colombia1747 Posts
How does it help the players if the sponsors pull their support? do you believe apex deserves the money? they are receiving cash for sponsors and scamming the players. | ||
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mrtomjones
Canada4020 Posts
On October 20 2012 18:55 r00ty wrote: That's not what it's about. It's about the money landing where it is deserved. There are teams out there who would put it to better use, don't you think? So you are making this decision almost before they have a shot here and contacting sponsors. Hurray. You are not helping. | ||
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xuanzue
Colombia1747 Posts
I see it really clear, it was SCAM | ||
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Syyyphon
1 Post
apeX are a really prominent Console sponsor, that, are very well known to be EXTREMELY sketchy. Not booking flights or accom/Giving info very late for travel/Not paying out for events or money that they owe teams and just generally being really low. Usually they throw money at Amature Teams and go, "Here, we'll fund you to go abroad for an event!" and generally screw them over. Just thought I'd shed some light on this situation. | ||
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GunPaladin
United States1205 Posts
On October 21 2012 05:25 xuanzue wrote: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/11poe5/apex_pulling_out_of_dh/c6oweo3 I see it really clear, it was SCAM yea here's a link to the full thread: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/11poe5/apex_pulling_out_of_dh/ Basically verifying everything we thought. Has anyone contacted the Korean players about the history of this organization. Do they even speak english? | ||
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Shadow_Dog
Canada427 Posts
On October 21 2012 05:25 xuanzue wrote: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/11poe5/apex_pulling_out_of_dh/c6oweo3 I see it really clear, it was SCAM I heard same thing from some ex-apex management. Also the ex-CoD apeX players (now OG) did not even get paid their salaries which are apparently ~$1000 ea.. Would not be surprised if all the Koreans have left the team already with MorroW soon to follow. | ||
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Jaaaaasper
United States10225 Posts
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DecertoDefianT
Great Britain1 Post
For a new scene like ours the money apeX started to throw around was something we needed, they have done so many good things within the scene such as bringing the first American teams to European events, sending Europeans over to MLG when they supported the title etc. Everything seemed pretty good within the organisation other than the odd logistical problem (players had flights booked in the wrong name, leading them to not be able to get their flights), however it soon became apparent the problems were much bigger then that. Players not being paid wages, flights not being booked, attendance to events not confirmed until last minute, all problems that have arose from apeX. The team seems to be built on good intentions with the lack of anyone to actually fulfil the promises they make, as far as I am aware they owe both Strongside (from the Halo pro team Str8 Rippin) and Rambo (from Optic Gaming's CoD team) substantial sums of money as they both had to pay for their teams attendance to a European event earlier this year when apeX failed them. Last weekend we had EGL8 in Manchester, England and yet again more issues arose. Firstly they had managed to book a flight for one of their team from America to Iceland, where he then had to fly from on his own money to get to the event. Then the European based team all travelled from England, except for their 4th player who was told to book his own flight and they would reimburse him (something he understandingly was not happy to do). They had a team turn up for either Gears of War or Halo console only for them to be told that apeX hadn't paid the entry fee, I also heard rumours there were problems with their hotel but I can't confirm that. Finally as you saw in the tweets screenshotted earlier, two of their content writers (one of which was a long time player for apeX) had their hotel cancelled when they went to check in and had to get their own once they had already arrived. All this from just one event. There have been many issues before, respected figures within the European console community initially worked with or for apeX however they all left around the same time, choosing not to say why they no longer wanted to represent the organisation. As I said at the start, unfortunately apeX failing this team was predictable. I had hoped with them stepping into a more professional branch of esports they might take it more professionally but obviously that hasn't been the case. | ||
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achristes
Norway653 Posts
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PixelNite
France1008 Posts
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schaf
Germany1326 Posts
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