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Bashing of any sort will result in temp bans. |
I have to keep reminding myself that most of these guys are just highschool kids and are really immature sometimes regarding events, and cannot keep a professional attitude all of the times.
I was wondering why BoxeR would leave SlayerS for a long time as I thought this was a team he had poured money into. I never knew too much about Jessica as the most Ive had gotten was drama posts on TL from her twitter
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At least, now stephano thread will sink.
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On October 18 2012 13:25 ElephantBaby wrote:
Even though most of us don't like Jessica as a drama queen, but it seems that she's telling the truth mostly, and very sincere also. Maybe she's not a good manager, but her heart and intention is definitely good.
Yeah.
Basing on Ace statement first post and Hirai statement , she is telling the truth albeit a little bit exaggerated on the number of players that paid Hirai to run IM back in 2010.
The whole Ganzi situation just turned out as a whole misunderstanding on both parties.
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Canada16217 Posts
On October 18 2012 12:42 Dosey wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 12:33 Aserrin wrote:
Proof that SC2 is dying to LoL.
Really disappointed at MMA. He was my favorite player. Was. 3 B level players switching to an easier game in an attempt for a better payday is proof that SC2 is dying to LoL? Interesting.
Not B level players.
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858 Posts
On October 18 2012 13:08 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 12:32 bucckevin wrote:On October 18 2012 12:22 tubs wrote:On October 18 2012 12:12 eleaf wrote:
Indeed Jessica herself is never short of money. But we are talking about 'embezzling' here and given the circumstance, well, they are just rumors and no further stories after that. I dont want to put opinions on the whole thing but since ppl here ask about how the hell does the money issue come out? I'm just providing an answer...
Ever heard of Occam's Razor? A very good test for most crazy stories is to ask yourself: which story is more complicated and convoluted? The false stories and the lies are usually much more crazy and complicated than the truth. The truth tends to be much simpler. So the story you're talking about involves Boxer illegally taking money from the team and giving it to Jessica to fund some actress stuff. The story Jessica claims is that even though they are LEGALLY ENTITLED to money from prize winners due to the contracts their players have signed, they have never even taken LEGALLY ENTITLED money from the team. So why if they could get the money LEGALLY, would they make it more complicated and risky for themselves to take the money ILLEGALLY from the team from a different means? Add to that the fact that Jessica is wealth already, and Boxer is doing quite well himself, and you can see which story I will believe. Occam's Razor says it should be Jessica's story that is more likely to be the truth, at least in terms of money. The rest of her story, who knows... the rest of the story about Slayers is convoluted and complicated like hell. LOL. Practice ban was firmed by ST_Ace, one of the ESF manager, and partially by Alicia for refusing to comment to cover his ass. Manager J part was confirmed by Alicia. Basically confirms that J didn't do his job in handling the foreign sponsor negotiating and turned MMA and the other SlayerS player against Jessica and Boxer. Ganzi part, which basically started the whole SlayerS vs ESF feud was confirmed by the IM manager. For the Ganzi part, there is a HUGE difference between Jessica's account and IMHirai's account.
What difference?? Ganzi was interested in joining IM. He got a good look, decided he wanted to join SlayerS instead. He expressed his interest to one of the SlayerS coach, not the owner Jessica/Boxer himself and the coach never mentioned it to either Jessica or Boxer. Ganzi told IM, who then got all butt hurt and wanted to get back at him by trying to get him banned from GSL. They also contacted SlayerS, who had no idea wtf IM was talking about. Ganzi goes to SlayerS and they said no. SlayerS fell sorry for him, tried mediating with ESF and Ganzi and trying to lift/prevent the ban and ultimately accepting Ganzi into their team. IM had a problem with Ganzi, not SlayerS, but they were still angry that Ganzi ended up going to SlayerS and not being grateful to them for showing him interest......wtf?
If I remember correctly, this incident made SlayerS not want to trust SC2CON because they made quick decisions without looking at all the facts or consulting all the sides....just like the whole fruit dealer thing.
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On October 18 2012 13:25 ElephantBaby wrote:
Even though most of us don't like Jessica as a drama queen, but it seems that she's telling the truth mostly, and very sincere also. Maybe she's not a good manager, but her heart and intention is definitely good.
Definitely. I've been pretty harsh on her management in this thread, but that's not the same as saying she's a bad person or anything like that. I wish her the best of luck in her future, I just don't think she's cut out to manage a team and I'm kind of annoyed at the missed opportunity at SlayerS. When they started, they really seemed to have it all and now we get this mess with SlayerS gone and a whole lot of normally good people getting their names tarnished.
Anyways, it seems all sides speak well of Cella and he's managed to remain unscathed despite massive amounts of drama going on around him. I hope some very smart team picks him up as a coach. It'd be a Genius decision.
edit: also a shame that we lose Puzzle (on that border between A and S), Cocoa (all over the place, lol), and Miya (high B / low A) in this mess.
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On October 18 2012 13:36 bucckevin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 13:08 vthree wrote:On October 18 2012 12:32 bucckevin wrote:On October 18 2012 12:22 tubs wrote:On October 18 2012 12:12 eleaf wrote:
Indeed Jessica herself is never short of money. But we are talking about 'embezzling' here and given the circumstance, well, they are just rumors and no further stories after that. I dont want to put opinions on the whole thing but since ppl here ask about how the hell does the money issue come out? I'm just providing an answer...
Ever heard of Occam's Razor? A very good test for most crazy stories is to ask yourself: which story is more complicated and convoluted? The false stories and the lies are usually much more crazy and complicated than the truth. The truth tends to be much simpler. So the story you're talking about involves Boxer illegally taking money from the team and giving it to Jessica to fund some actress stuff. The story Jessica claims is that even though they are LEGALLY ENTITLED to money from prize winners due to the contracts their players have signed, they have never even taken LEGALLY ENTITLED money from the team. So why if they could get the money LEGALLY, would they make it more complicated and risky for themselves to take the money ILLEGALLY from the team from a different means? Add to that the fact that Jessica is wealth already, and Boxer is doing quite well himself, and you can see which story I will believe. Occam's Razor says it should be Jessica's story that is more likely to be the truth, at least in terms of money. The rest of her story, who knows... the rest of the story about Slayers is convoluted and complicated like hell. LOL. Practice ban was firmed by ST_Ace, one of the ESF manager, and partially by Alicia for refusing to comment to cover his ass. Manager J part was confirmed by Alicia. Basically confirms that J didn't do his job in handling the foreign sponsor negotiating and turned MMA and the other SlayerS player against Jessica and Boxer. Ganzi part, which basically started the whole SlayerS vs ESF feud was confirmed by the IM manager. For the Ganzi part, there is a HUGE difference between Jessica's account and IMHirai's account. What difference?? Ganzi was interested in joining IM. He got a good look, decided he wanted to join SlayerS instead. He expressed his interest to one of the SlayerS coach, not the owner Jessica/Boxer himself and the coach never mentioned it to either Jessica or Boxer. Ganzi told IM, who then got all butt hurt and wanted to get back at him by trying to get him banned from GSL. They also contacted SlayerS, who had no idea wtf IM was talking about. Ganzi goes to SlayerS and they said no. SlayerS fell sorry for him, tried mediating with ESF and Ganzi and trying to lift/prevent the ban and ultimately accepting Ganzi into their team. IM had a problem with Ganzi, not SlayerS, but they were still angry that Ganzi ended up going to SlayerS and not being grateful to them for showing him interest......wtf? If I remember correctly, this incident made SlayerS not want to trust SC2CON because they made quick decisions without looking at all the facts or consulting all the sides....just like the whole fruit dealer thing.
The whole Ganzi thing happened in 2010, the very early days of sc2 before SC2con even existed.
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858 Posts
On October 18 2012 13:40 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 13:36 bucckevin wrote:On October 18 2012 13:08 vthree wrote:On October 18 2012 12:32 bucckevin wrote:On October 18 2012 12:22 tubs wrote:On October 18 2012 12:12 eleaf wrote:
Indeed Jessica herself is never short of money. But we are talking about 'embezzling' here and given the circumstance, well, they are just rumors and no further stories after that. I dont want to put opinions on the whole thing but since ppl here ask about how the hell does the money issue come out? I'm just providing an answer...
Ever heard of Occam's Razor? A very good test for most crazy stories is to ask yourself: which story is more complicated and convoluted? The false stories and the lies are usually much more crazy and complicated than the truth. The truth tends to be much simpler. So the story you're talking about involves Boxer illegally taking money from the team and giving it to Jessica to fund some actress stuff. The story Jessica claims is that even though they are LEGALLY ENTITLED to money from prize winners due to the contracts their players have signed, they have never even taken LEGALLY ENTITLED money from the team. So why if they could get the money LEGALLY, would they make it more complicated and risky for themselves to take the money ILLEGALLY from the team from a different means? Add to that the fact that Jessica is wealth already, and Boxer is doing quite well himself, and you can see which story I will believe. Occam's Razor says it should be Jessica's story that is more likely to be the truth, at least in terms of money. The rest of her story, who knows... the rest of the story about Slayers is convoluted and complicated like hell. LOL. Practice ban was firmed by ST_Ace, one of the ESF manager, and partially by Alicia for refusing to comment to cover his ass. Manager J part was confirmed by Alicia. Basically confirms that J didn't do his job in handling the foreign sponsor negotiating and turned MMA and the other SlayerS player against Jessica and Boxer. Ganzi part, which basically started the whole SlayerS vs ESF feud was confirmed by the IM manager. For the Ganzi part, there is a HUGE difference between Jessica's account and IMHirai's account. What difference?? Ganzi was interested in joining IM. He got a good look, decided he wanted to join SlayerS instead. He expressed his interest to one of the SlayerS coach, not the owner Jessica/Boxer himself and the coach never mentioned it to either Jessica or Boxer. Ganzi told IM, who then got all butt hurt and wanted to get back at him by trying to get him banned from GSL. They also contacted SlayerS, who had no idea wtf IM was talking about. Ganzi goes to SlayerS and they said no. SlayerS fell sorry for him, tried mediating with ESF and Ganzi and trying to lift/prevent the ban and ultimately accepting Ganzi into their team. IM had a problem with Ganzi, not SlayerS, but they were still angry that Ganzi ended up going to SlayerS and not being grateful to them for showing him interest......wtf? If I remember correctly, this incident made SlayerS not want to trust SC2CON because they made quick decisions without looking at all the facts or consulting all the sides....just like the whole fruit dealer thing. The whole Ganzi thing happened in 2010, the very early days of sc2 before SC2con even existed.
Not really, it started early 2011. team managers consulting each other and agreeing on something, SC2CON, ESF is all the same to me. SC2CON only became ESF because one dude stepped down, they're still the same shit.
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On October 18 2012 13:42 bucckevin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 13:40 Dodgin wrote:On October 18 2012 13:36 bucckevin wrote:On October 18 2012 13:08 vthree wrote:On October 18 2012 12:32 bucckevin wrote:On October 18 2012 12:22 tubs wrote:On October 18 2012 12:12 eleaf wrote:
Indeed Jessica herself is never short of money. But we are talking about 'embezzling' here and given the circumstance, well, they are just rumors and no further stories after that. I dont want to put opinions on the whole thing but since ppl here ask about how the hell does the money issue come out? I'm just providing an answer...
Ever heard of Occam's Razor? A very good test for most crazy stories is to ask yourself: which story is more complicated and convoluted? The false stories and the lies are usually much more crazy and complicated than the truth. The truth tends to be much simpler. So the story you're talking about involves Boxer illegally taking money from the team and giving it to Jessica to fund some actress stuff. The story Jessica claims is that even though they are LEGALLY ENTITLED to money from prize winners due to the contracts their players have signed, they have never even taken LEGALLY ENTITLED money from the team. So why if they could get the money LEGALLY, would they make it more complicated and risky for themselves to take the money ILLEGALLY from the team from a different means? Add to that the fact that Jessica is wealth already, and Boxer is doing quite well himself, and you can see which story I will believe. Occam's Razor says it should be Jessica's story that is more likely to be the truth, at least in terms of money. The rest of her story, who knows... the rest of the story about Slayers is convoluted and complicated like hell. LOL. Practice ban was firmed by ST_Ace, one of the ESF manager, and partially by Alicia for refusing to comment to cover his ass. Manager J part was confirmed by Alicia. Basically confirms that J didn't do his job in handling the foreign sponsor negotiating and turned MMA and the other SlayerS player against Jessica and Boxer. Ganzi part, which basically started the whole SlayerS vs ESF feud was confirmed by the IM manager. For the Ganzi part, there is a HUGE difference between Jessica's account and IMHirai's account. What difference?? Ganzi was interested in joining IM. He got a good look, decided he wanted to join SlayerS instead. He expressed his interest to one of the SlayerS coach, not the owner Jessica/Boxer himself and the coach never mentioned it to either Jessica or Boxer. Ganzi told IM, who then got all butt hurt and wanted to get back at him by trying to get him banned from GSL. They also contacted SlayerS, who had no idea wtf IM was talking about. Ganzi goes to SlayerS and they said no. SlayerS fell sorry for him, tried mediating with ESF and Ganzi and trying to lift/prevent the ban and ultimately accepting Ganzi into their team. IM had a problem with Ganzi, not SlayerS, but they were still angry that Ganzi ended up going to SlayerS and not being grateful to them for showing him interest......wtf? If I remember correctly, this incident made SlayerS not want to trust SC2CON because they made quick decisions without looking at all the facts or consulting all the sides....just like the whole fruit dealer thing. The whole Ganzi thing happened in 2010, the very early days of sc2 before SC2con even existed. Not really, it started early 2011.
The headline even says
Ganzi/IM/SlayerS 2010 Case
LG-IM Coach Hirai's official stance on the 2010 IM/Ganzi/SlayerS situation
...
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858 Posts
On October 18 2012 13:43 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 13:42 bucckevin wrote:On October 18 2012 13:40 Dodgin wrote:On October 18 2012 13:36 bucckevin wrote:On October 18 2012 13:08 vthree wrote:On October 18 2012 12:32 bucckevin wrote:On October 18 2012 12:22 tubs wrote:On October 18 2012 12:12 eleaf wrote:
Indeed Jessica herself is never short of money. But we are talking about 'embezzling' here and given the circumstance, well, they are just rumors and no further stories after that. I dont want to put opinions on the whole thing but since ppl here ask about how the hell does the money issue come out? I'm just providing an answer...
Ever heard of Occam's Razor? A very good test for most crazy stories is to ask yourself: which story is more complicated and convoluted? The false stories and the lies are usually much more crazy and complicated than the truth. The truth tends to be much simpler. So the story you're talking about involves Boxer illegally taking money from the team and giving it to Jessica to fund some actress stuff. The story Jessica claims is that even though they are LEGALLY ENTITLED to money from prize winners due to the contracts their players have signed, they have never even taken LEGALLY ENTITLED money from the team. So why if they could get the money LEGALLY, would they make it more complicated and risky for themselves to take the money ILLEGALLY from the team from a different means? Add to that the fact that Jessica is wealth already, and Boxer is doing quite well himself, and you can see which story I will believe. Occam's Razor says it should be Jessica's story that is more likely to be the truth, at least in terms of money. The rest of her story, who knows... the rest of the story about Slayers is convoluted and complicated like hell. LOL. Practice ban was firmed by ST_Ace, one of the ESF manager, and partially by Alicia for refusing to comment to cover his ass. Manager J part was confirmed by Alicia. Basically confirms that J didn't do his job in handling the foreign sponsor negotiating and turned MMA and the other SlayerS player against Jessica and Boxer. Ganzi part, which basically started the whole SlayerS vs ESF feud was confirmed by the IM manager. For the Ganzi part, there is a HUGE difference between Jessica's account and IMHirai's account. What difference?? Ganzi was interested in joining IM. He got a good look, decided he wanted to join SlayerS instead. He expressed his interest to one of the SlayerS coach, not the owner Jessica/Boxer himself and the coach never mentioned it to either Jessica or Boxer. Ganzi told IM, who then got all butt hurt and wanted to get back at him by trying to get him banned from GSL. They also contacted SlayerS, who had no idea wtf IM was talking about. Ganzi goes to SlayerS and they said no. SlayerS fell sorry for him, tried mediating with ESF and Ganzi and trying to lift/prevent the ban and ultimately accepting Ganzi into their team. IM had a problem with Ganzi, not SlayerS, but they were still angry that Ganzi ended up going to SlayerS and not being grateful to them for showing him interest......wtf? If I remember correctly, this incident made SlayerS not want to trust SC2CON because they made quick decisions without looking at all the facts or consulting all the sides....just like the whole fruit dealer thing. The whole Ganzi thing happened in 2010, the very early days of sc2 before SC2con even existed. Not really, it started early 2011. The headline even says Ganzi/IM/SlayerS 2010 Case LG-IM Coach Hirai's official stance on the 2010 IM/Ganzi/SlayerS situation ...
Well I guess you weren't following them then because I explicitly remember Ganzi playing under IM in a few small tournaments early 2011, before joining SlayerS in GSTL match 2011.
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On October 18 2012 13:37 RenSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 13:25 ElephantBaby wrote:
Even though most of us don't like Jessica as a drama queen, but it seems that she's telling the truth mostly, and very sincere also. Maybe she's not a good manager, but her heart and intention is definitely good. Definitely. I've been pretty harsh on her management in this thread, but that's not the same as saying she's a bad person or anything like that. I wish her the best of luck in her future, I just don't think she's cut out to manage a team and I'm kind of annoyed at the missed opportunity at SlayerS. When they started, they really seemed to have it all and now we get this with SlayerS gone and a whole lot of normally good people getting their names tarnished. Anyways, it seems all sides speak well of Cella and he's managed to remain unscathed despite massive amounts of drama going on around him. I hope some very smart team picks him up as a coach. It'd be a Genius decision. edit: also a shame that we lose Puzzle (on that border between A and S), Coca (all over the place, lol), and Miya (high B / low A) in this mess.
Seconded.
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Clam down Jessica Kespa players will cursh esp players. We will see son
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I wish someone reliable/trusted would comb the korean communities thoroughly and let us know what they think of each of the individual issues, the disbanding, MMA/Ryung's status, etc. Not generally, but in each case.
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On October 18 2012 12:42 Dosey wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 12:33 Aserrin wrote:
Proof that SC2 is dying to LoL.
Really disappointed at MMA. He was my favorite player. Was. 3 B level players switching to an easier game in an attempt for a better payday is proof that SC2 is dying to LoL? Interesting.
It does really seems that way, could you provide proof that SC2 is not dying?
In regards to that topic (sorry if off-topic), I think MLG,NASL, Blizzard, gomTV, IGN etc... should all just merge into 1 tournament and have it televised world-wide.
Players sponsor ship could rise.. Though it is a huge risk and honestly I don't know how it will pan out.
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51507 Posts
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just finished reading, wow... that is some crazy shizzzz
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On October 18 2012 14:01 FoxerGames wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 12:42 Dosey wrote:On October 18 2012 12:33 Aserrin wrote:
Proof that SC2 is dying to LoL.
Really disappointed at MMA. He was my favorite player. Was. 3 B level players switching to an easier game in an attempt for a better payday is proof that SC2 is dying to LoL? Interesting. It does really seems that way, could you provide proof that SC2 is not dying? In regards to that topic (sorry if off-topic), I think MLG,NASL, Blizzard, gomTV, IGN etc... should all just merge into 1 tournament and have it televised world-wide. Players sponsor ship could rise.. Though it is a huge risk and honestly I don't know how it will pan out.
I think SC2 is not died but now Pro players in korea is very high bec kespa players switch to SC2. Then, when the players are more but prize is still the same. Thus, some players must get out bec of lower opportunity for them to get money
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On October 18 2012 14:00 MCXD wrote:
I wish someone reliable/trusted would comb the korean communities thoroughly and let us know what they think of each of the individual issues, the disbanding, MMA/Ryung's status, etc. Not generally, but in each case.
Not so thorough, but skimming over the posts at PlayXP, this is what I can gather at the moment regarding the points you've mentioned. Sorry I couldn't find much on Ryung.
People at PlayXP in particular seem to be comparing ESF to KeSPA and hitting ESF hard, more so because ESF formed claiming they wouldn't be like KeSPA while doing these things behind the scene. A lot of them want the heads of ESF gone and all the crap weeded out. They are also mocking the press releases that the ESF sides have provided thus far, and are awaiting their new press release that was promised by a journalist at TIG. They mock these articles from ESF by constantly saying things like, "'Are they done writing the new novel yet?", "Are they writing up a graduation thesis of the century or something?", "Is the guy writing a word at a time and asking ESF if it's okay after each word?" because the article that was supposed to be released 'soon' taking so long to come out.
+ Show Spoiler +(Apparently TIG is a very ESF friendly website; there has been a twitter capture image that someone posted showing Jessica talking to a journalist of TIG about releasing an article since August, but the journalist keeps pushing it back and Jessica instead opted to release it via Inven recently)
Alicia's image there is someone disgraceful with a childish mentality for acting like a spoiled brat even after having completed his service in the army and being in his mid-20s (not so young).
Crank is being hated on the most as he really bit the hand that fed him, and hard. He was being regarded as some bastard child that had no education in cultivation from his parents in a post, and most replies seemed to agree. The overall feeling towards Crank at PlayXP is very very negative due to his outrageous actions against Jessica and Boxer, yelling at them and questioning what they did for him.
A lot of people seem to be thinking that MMA is just 'stupid' being tricked by Manager J's words and acting out in such a manner. Some have already put him down as one of the back stabbers along with Alicia and Crank, but some still seem to want to wait until MMA makes a statement.
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On October 18 2012 14:14 Nostalgia.NA wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 14:00 MCXD wrote:
I wish someone reliable/trusted would comb the korean communities thoroughly and let us know what they think of each of the individual issues, the disbanding, MMA/Ryung's status, etc. Not generally, but in each case. + Show Spoiler +Not so thorough, but skimming over the posts at PlayXP, this is what I can gather at the moment regarding the points you've mentioned. Sorry I couldn't find much on Ryung. People at PlayXP in particular seem to be comparing ESF to KeSPA and hitting ESF hard, more so because ESF formed claiming they wouldn't be like KeSPA while doing these things behind the scene. A lot of them want the heads of ESF gone and all the crap weeded out. They are also mocking the press releases that the ESF sides have provided thus far, and are awaiting their new press release that was promised by a journalist at TIG. They mock these articles from ESF by constantly saying things like, "'Are they done writing the new novel yet?", "Are they writing up a graduation thesis of the century or something?", "Is the guy writing a word at a time and asking ESF if it's okay after each word?" because the article that was supposed to be released 'soon' taking so long to come out. + Show Spoiler +(Apparently TIG is a very ESF friendly website; there has been a twitter capture image that someone posted showing Jessica talking to a journalist of TIG about releasing an article since August, but the journalist keeps pushing it back and Jessica instead opted to release it via Inven recently)
Alicia's image there is someone disgraceful with a childish mentality for acting like a spoiled brat even after having gone to the army and being in his mid-20s (not so young). Crank is being hated on the most as he really bit the hand that fed him, and hard. He is being regarded as some bastard child that had no education in cultivation from his parents due to his outrageous actions against Jessica and Boxer, yelling at them and questioning what they did for him. A lot of people seem to be thinking that MMA is just 'stupid' being tricked by Manager J's words and acting out in such a manner. Some have already put him down as one of the back stabbers along with Alicia and Crank, but some still seem to want to wait until MMA makes a statement.
Ouch. This may not end well at all.
If MMA/CranK/Alicia lost their korean fanbase entirely though it's probably for the best that they've jumped ship to foreign teams now.
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3861 Posts
Talked to MMA this morning, he's on the fence about writing his side of it or not because he's afraid that it's gonna get blown up even bigger. But if he doesn't say something then he's afraid the community will think ill of him because of Jessica's words which he says are not completely true. And from knowing MMA in person, he's always been super respectful, I doubt he'd ever "yell" at Boxer (which, I doubt Crank did too; he probably just "talked back" to him which might be considered "yelling" to Jessica).
Part of the conversation I had:
[1:42:50 PM] 문성원: 요환이형이 (Boxer is)
[1:42:51 PM] 문성원: 중간에 껴있어서 (caught in the middle)
[1:42:59 PM] 문성원: 제가 요환이형을 욕할순 없어요 (I can't talk bad about Boxer, rather the implication through context of the whole conversation was "I couldn't talk bad about Boxer [because he respects him])
I am super looking forward to seeing his side of things.
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EPT
