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On September 25 2012 07:04 Huragius wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2012 07:00 Atoissen wrote:
I had never heard of her before, but this really sucks.
And for DeathAngel, this might ruin he's SC2 pro run, one thing is if he was just leveling for her, but he has also played showmatches and won money etc of the community, thats so bad...
They must have so low moral... wtf did they want to gain of this? Why people are only talking about DeathAngel ? VeraLynn should be punished as well. And her case seems to be even more serious than DeathAngel's.
The main issue as of now is that VeraLynn has disappeared from all sight. She removed all contact information, and deleted everything that was related to that ID. That's why there's nothing to do except pray that Blizzard will take action for us.
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Who is VeraLynn? I mean this seems serious, but it was bound to happen. What I'm curious about is how did KR find this out  More on the story, detective. Was it just because she was a girl ?
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On September 25 2012 07:05 jdseemoreglass wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2012 07:01 PET wrote:
Yea so. If you make a tournament with good players, good stream... no one gives a fuck.
If some eSports shit drama happens, EVERYONE has an opinion.
And yet we like to think so high of ourselves ... "OH MY GOD OUR COMMUNITY (SC2) IS SO FKING GREAT! WE ARE SO AWESOME, NOT LIKE THOSE DOTA RETARDS". I'd like to direct you to any of the hundreds of LR threads on Teamliquid. You seem awfully sensitive about the term dota retard, wonder why.
I was just giving a random example.
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The detectives did good work in this. The argument is persuasive, coherent, and very persuasive. It isn't quite the legal equivalent of a "slam dunk case", but it would more than likely win in court. Especially considering the defense has chosen to refrain from offering any plea, evidence to the contrary, or statement. The Honorable Judge TL can then state "How do you plea? Very well, let the record show the accused did not respond, and that a plea of "Not Guilty" has been entered on their behalf by the court."
The lack of response shouldn't be much of a surprise - regardless of the truth of the matter (for the record, I think the prosecution is correct) nothing they could say, short of live recorded video evidence they won't or cannot provide, would help them and any defense attempted would further harm them. And it would simply invite a mob to destroy their social media. Unfortunately, there is no other way to address this kind of fraud. There is no "court of eSports", "eSports police", or "Official eSports Authority". (Okay, Korea has KeSPA. Kinda.)
As to the fraud... yes there was fraud. Possibly even in a legal sense, depending on jurisdiction. Vera made representations that she was an expert in her field, and that she had specific skills which were the basis of her income as a coach and in various competitions. DeathAngel actually provided the skills. It's not unlike the work of a ghost writer... which can be legal in some cases but is iffy on an ethical basis. Paid account leveling is similar - providing a service to someone that wants a specific league or rank for whatever reason but doesn't have the skills. (I'm Silver. I'm okay with that, and will try to get better. But some people might not be, and willing to pay for someone to bump them to Masters.) Account leveling is not illegal (although it may be against the ToS), and pros need to eat too. (Not everyone has great team deals or can win enough/stream enough to make the rent.) The fraud in this case is not that DA played for VeraLynn, it's that VeraLynn and DA conspired to represent DA's actions as VeraLynn's actions to increase her reputation, and that reputation was then used to make money. (The false representation in tournaments is a different kind of fraud, still bad.)
Does this harm the potential of future female players? Fuck yes. Because there is already a fairly misogynistic view of female players as being less talented than male players. And this fraud is just another thing that people already certain that "girls suck at SC2" will hang on to as rationale for why they get so BM towards any female player (and more than a few female casters/hosts). It's a lousy thing, but it happens. (These are the same kind of people that don't understand Scarlett and continually harp on the MtF aspect.) It really really sucks all around, because the damage done is more than defrauding tournaments and people who paid for coaching services, it also casts a shadow on all female players personalities in SC2 by providing bigots with another argument to spew out when they feel challenged. And that miasma of misogyny is a strong deterrent for women to enter the field to start with - because they're constantly going to face really dumb fucks bombarding them with hate and constantly looking to prove that they aren't as good as they think they are. (Really a microcosm of larger issues there...)
TL;dr - KawaiiRice good, Vera/DeathAngel suck. Further Kudos to SixPoolGaming, BigFatPanda, and the other caster. Z33k, walk carefully. Account leveling gray, fraud bad. Best expose thread seen, 5/5, would read again.
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Unfortunately here's me being the one guy going against the grain it seems.
I'm not going to argue whether or not something dumb went down. Veralynn and Deathangel both done goofed pretty bad.
What I'm going to say however is that we should offer some amount of leniency because of the good that has been done. I don't think anyone would deny that more tournament sites and better run eSports companies like Z33K are a good thing, and it seems from the posts of those involved with Z33K (previously or currently) that she's done a lot of good there. Ban her from participating as a player anywhere, but don't run her out of the community. If she wants to come forward, admit what she's done, and stick strictly to what we know she's done a good job with, then allow it.
I've also seen her coach live, and she certainly seems more engaging than a lot of other coaches you watch. The ability to play at the highest level doesn't make you automatically fit to teach, and the inability to play at the highest level doesn't make you unfit to teach.
Keep an eye on them, let them do whatever it is within the scene that they do that has nothing to do with playing themselves. Aside from morals and other subjective things, I don't see what that would hurt.
I will in no way defend their actions, just ask that we're smarter in handling this than we have been in the past.
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so if DeathAngel is Veralynn... well DeathAngel and Veralynn should both be punished extensively, banned from everywhere, etc
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Honestly never heard of either of these players.
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EDIT: Figured this out now. 1 comment.
On September 25 2012 05:18 KiWiKaKi wrote:
popcorn time
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On September 25 2012 07:04 Huragius wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2012 07:00 Atoissen wrote:
I had never heard of her before, but this really sucks.
And for DeathAngel, this might ruin he's SC2 pro run, one thing is if he was just leveling for her, but he has also played showmatches and won money etc of the community, thats so bad...
They must have so low moral... wtf did they want to gain of this? Why people are only talking about DeathAngel ? VeraLynn should be punished as well. And her case seems to be even more serious than DeathAngel's.
Because DeathAngel has more to lose.
Clearly, if this is true they both deserve to have their career as pro-gammers ended, at least in the near term. It's just that since DA is on a team and has quite a reputation he'll be punished more heavily anyway, since he has more to lose.
On September 25 2012 07:07 ROOTCatZ wrote:
so if DeathAngel is Veralynn... well DeathAngel and Veralynn should both be punished extensively, banned from everywhere, etc
Pretty sure that will be the community concensus if this turns out to be true.
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Canada13389 Posts
On September 25 2012 05:35 Torte de Lini wrote:
Shit nice catches, the adverts and the hotkey changes, everything. Holy fuck.
Very well researched. Every accusation of serious wrong doing should be well sourced like this.
The saddest part of all:
She was apparently very very good at getting z33k work and contracts to cast things. And really, no one should care if she is GM or not when it comes to a managerial position. So what really happened here was the community losing a person who put in a lot of real work.
All tarnished by account levelling and then using the GM rank as leverage to make money thanks to greed. The account leveling is not shocking, its the fact the leveraged it to get work from sixpoolgaming and coaching. Everyone who was coached by her was 100% defrauded. I feel bad for them more than anyone else in this whole situation.
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I think it's shocking how she got away with this for so long. Why didn't any of the many people who noticed this do something about it sooner?
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On September 25 2012 06:44 Roggay wrote:
3: because stuff like this needs to be known to discourage this kind of behaviors.
my grandpa in the country used to hang a dead fox in front of the chicken coop to discourage other foxes to come close.
You want to do the same with Vera. Kind of funny.
She will get punished, as will DeathAngel, no big deal. They are both irrelevant anyways. Now get back to ladder guys.
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Deathangel needs to be punished to the same extent that veralyn. Although it will be hard because she is apart of these organizations, and hes just a player. At any rate he should be banned from everything under the sun, as well as veralyn.
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what sort of action are you seriously gonna take up on her? in the end, it's a video game for a couple showmatches worth hundred dollars. the best you can do is just ignore her and she will fade to irrelevance.
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Oh dear god...
This is so pathetic. Play your own fucking games.
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Sad....I always thought something was fishy about her, well I hope we can get to the bottom of this and see what VeraLynn says T.T
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On September 25 2012 07:08 Psychonian wrote:
I don't get it.
You're accusing DeathAngel of being VeraLynn? So...what's the problem with DeathAngel being the same as VeraLynn?
...lol
Funny and entertaining work, my good man K.Rice.
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On September 25 2012 07:08 Psychonian wrote:
I don't get it.
You're accusing DeathAngel of being VeraLynn? So...what's the problem with DeathAngel being the same as VeraLynn?
What's wrong is VeraLynn isn't just a smurf name on a ladder account, it's actually a person (female) taking credit for all the winning DeathAngel did on her account, including offering paid coaching, webshow appearances, etc.
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United States23455 Posts
Can we not punish DeathAngel? I want him to go to the next Dreamhack and have people throw pink streamers at him, have signs like 'YOU GO, GIRL!' and 'VERALYNN4EVER' for him.
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On September 25 2012 06:09 KawaiiRice wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2012 06:05 iAmiAnC wrote:On September 25 2012 05:10 KawaiiRice wrote:
6. At the start of one of Vera’s ladder stream vods she also had Adobe Flash Player crash. Her error message is in Romanian, not Irish or English h0h0 wtf.. google translator put Irish as a language T_T; oh well.
Because it is.
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EPT
