King Mvp and President MC are forfeiting their spots for the WCS Korea representation.
On August 14th, GOMTV announced that Mvp and MC had forfeited before the losers' bracket matches began. The reason being that both players will be attending Gamescom.
Gamescom is a tournament being held from August 16th - 19th in Cologne, Germany. An event that Mvp and MC will attend.
The two players will be accompanied by NesTea, JYP, Bomber, and Oz who will attempt the IEM global challenge open bracket. Mvp will also be doing a fan signing at a booth provided by sponsor LG. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=360240
Mvp was scheduled to play for WCS on the 14th and MC was scheduled to play on the 15th. Unfortunately, even if both players won their matches, they would have to play the next round during the 16th and 17th so they had no choice but to forfeit their spots.
LG-IM's coach, coach Kang stated that "attending Gamescom was something we had been planning for a while now. I wanted our players to do well in the WCS and provide great games for the fans but the times just didn't work out for us so I want to apologize to the fans and GOMTV."
With Mvp and MC's forfeit, LG-IMHappy and StarTale_Hack will automatically advance to the next round in the losers' bracket.
o.0 Does IEM have massive prize money this year? Havent been keeping up with the tourneys off late, but I thought wcs would be more prestigious to go to. Perhaps it's LG paying they to be at the booth.
On August 15 2012 00:56 RUFinalBoss wrote: hmm WCS korea is a total flop
I don't think you can say that, these guys were in losers R1, not forfeiting in the semi finals or something.
Though it may highlight the benefits of all the other WCS events being held over a single weekend, but I think most people would probably prefer the GSL style...
That's kinda disappointing. But with how long the WCS korea is going on I understand it. Maybe they should have let Tastosis cast it aswell and saved a lot of time by doing that?
yea agree im pretty sure there will be booths from their main sponsors from the respective companies that want to attract fans by using them hence they got payed $$$$ a lot :D
On August 15 2012 00:58 AxiR wrote: Couldn't they just have rescheduled the games?
No, they only have 3 weeks to work with. They need to get the losers bracket round 1 AND 2 out of the way this week, which means that the games can't be rescheduled.
We would like to inform you of a change to the brackets for WCS Korea Nationals Loser’s Bracket Round 1.
LG-IM_Mvp and SK_MC have forfeited their matches for personal reasons. Both players have properly informed league administration in time. The matches will therefore be handled as walkovers and their opponents LG-IM_Happy and StarTale_Hack will automatically advance to Loser’s Bracket Round 2.
Interesting hopefully they do well at Gamescom. Plus we will hopefully see some other players start to make a name for themselves in Korea/the world from WCS :D
On August 15 2012 00:56 RUFinalBoss wrote: hmm WCS korea is a total flop
Lol @ this blatant attempt to have the first post and get attention. Such a silly exaggeration that I'm not even going to waste the time to explain why.
On August 15 2012 01:03 Champloo wrote: I don't understand why they drag out the Korean WCS that much anyway. All the other WCSs were played during one weekend and this should've been too.
Because people want to see kespa players take on GOM players. They also have a chance to monetize it, whilst filling time between the GSL seasons. It's pretty obvious really.
On August 15 2012 01:03 Champloo wrote: I don't understand why they drag out the Korean WCS that much anyway. All the other WCSs were played during one weekend and this should've been too.
Because people want to see kespa players take on GOM players. They also have a chance to monetize it, whilst filling time between the GSL seasons. It's pretty obvious really.
It's a Blizzard event, not a GomTV. All the other WCS events were held on one weekend and had free 720p. The only shitty one is the Korean one which is hosted by GomTV and I really hope Blizzard will choose someone else to host it next year.
On August 15 2012 01:03 Champloo wrote: I don't understand why they drag out the Korean WCS that much anyway. All the other WCSs were played during one weekend and this should've been too.
And having it on one weekend would be helpful for the players, since then they don't have to travel all that much.
My guess is that their current situations in WCS was a difficult one to be in, so they decided to go for the easier money and attend IEM. WCS is losing a lot of huge star power though.
On August 15 2012 00:56 RUFinalBoss wrote: hmm WCS korea is a total flop
are you fucking kidding me? It's BY FAR the best WCS qualifier ...
It's produced the best games but this makes it feel like Koreans are less invested in getting into WCS than foreigners. I guess it makes sense when they have GSL/OSL to kinda take the place of national championships.
On August 15 2012 00:56 RUFinalBoss wrote: hmm WCS korea is a total flop
That's a bit extreme to say that. Of course it's not cool to have those players forfeiting, but i still think it's a nice competition, if only to check the kespa / GSL showdowns. Also there are still a lot of great players in this.
On August 15 2012 01:18 PhoenixVoid wrote: My guess is that their current situations in WCS was a difficult one to be in, so they decided to go for the easier money and attend IEM. WCS is losing a lot of huge star power though.
More like... LG boss: We sponsor you... You better do your job at our promotional booth. Oh and you can win some easy money too at the same time
They have nothing to win and everything to lose by playing WCS. Even by beating Jaedong or someone like that, people would be able to see how close they are, and even if they were very far apart, people would be able to tell that MVP and MC's reign will be shortly coming to an end with HotS.
On August 15 2012 01:33 0neder wrote: They have nothing to win and everything to lose by playing WCS. Even by beating Jaedong or someone like that, people would be able to see how close they are, and even if they were very far apart, people would be able to tell that MVP and MC's reign will be shortly coming to an end with HotS.
Really? So I guess MVP and MC will not play in any more korean tournaments because they are afraid of Kespa players?
On August 15 2012 01:33 0neder wrote: They have nothing to win and everything to lose by playing WCS. Even by beating Jaedong or someone like that, people would be able to see how close they are, and even if they were very far apart, people would be able to tell that MVP and MC's reign will be shortly coming to an end with HotS.
On August 15 2012 00:56 RUFinalBoss wrote: hmm WCS korea is a total flop
Why is WCS korea a total flop? Seen some great games from it so far. Perhaps you are confusing it with WCG
In fact it's doing exactly what it's meant to - bring us new players who aren't at the top of the scene and put them in the spotlight. People like Reality who have been brought in to the public eye.
They were both in losers bracket so they would had played many games to even try to win it all, I think it's safer for them to go to gamescom and try to win more money there against foreigners :p
On August 15 2012 02:01 Gladiator333 wrote: They were both in losers bracket so they would had played many games to even try to win it all, I think it's safer for them to go to gamescom and try to win more money there against foreigners :p
For mc i got no clue might be the money and mvp is "forced" by lg...but what you don't understand is that even though wcs korea matches in prize pool with iem...it is just a qualifier for wcs asia and then for wcs finals.
Well sponsors have a word too. Otherwise reddit wouldn't spam sponsors with mails, if they dislike something. Always annoying if you don't find a reshedule, but nya bigger more established event wins in that case.
On August 15 2012 03:53 Benjamin99 wrote: That was kind of expected. No player can play every tournament there is.
Yeah but isn't WCS > IEM?
In terms of SC2 WCS>IEM. But in terms of esports IEM>WCS. An important thing to consider here is that IM is sponsored by Intel, which practically makes sense why they would prioritize IEM over WCS. Also LG Electronics will have a booth at Gamescom, so that's another reason. SK Gaming is a german based organization and a lot of there sponsors have ties to the german market, so that makes sense as well (MC Attended every German IEM event last year).
On August 15 2012 00:58 dartoo wrote: o.0 Does IEM have massive prize money this year? Havent been keeping up with the tourneys off late, but I thought wcs would be more prestigious to go to. Perhaps it's LG paying they to be at the booth.
On August 15 2012 03:53 Benjamin99 wrote: That was kind of expected. No player can play every tournament there is.
Yeah but isn't WCS > IEM?
I think I read somewhere that Mvp is going to do something (sign stuff I guess) in a LG booth at gamescom. If that's the case I guess Mvp more or less had to go.
On August 15 2012 03:53 Benjamin99 wrote: That was kind of expected. No player can play every tournament there is.
Yeah but isn't WCS > IEM?
I think I read somewhere that Mvp is going to do something (sign stuff I guess) in a LG booth at gamescom. If that's the case I guess Mvp more or less had to go.
Well... I posted it in my OP and linked the thread for it. So you probably read it in here
WCS Korea is a flop as a spectator, because its just a few players and matches each day - Just smash it out already. Do it on 2 streams, stream every game and have vods. Bundle it with a proper tournament over a weekend and get it decided.
The matches are great, but it kills me getting up at 4AM so I can watch the FEW matches that are cast that day.
On August 15 2012 01:33 0neder wrote: They have nothing to win and everything to lose by playing WCS. Even by beating Jaedong or someone like that, people would be able to see how close they are, and even if they were very far apart, people would be able to tell that MVP and MC's reign will be shortly coming to an end with HotS.
That makes no sense whatsoever btw. The forfeits look more like sponsor related obligations tbh
On August 15 2012 03:53 Benjamin99 wrote: That was kind of expected. No player can play every tournament there is.
Yeah but isn't WCS > IEM?
I think I read somewhere that Mvp is going to do something (sign stuff I guess) in a LG booth at gamescom. If that's the case I guess Mvp more or less had to go.
Well... I posted it in my OP and linked the thread for it. So you probably read it in here
Haha yeah probably, I'm not the smartest of men it would seem. But my point is that even though WCS is the bigger tournament LG wants Mvp to do signings etc at gamescom.
On August 15 2012 04:27 Grimmyman123 wrote: WCS Korea is a flop as a spectator, because its just a few players and matches each day - Just smash it out already. Do it on 2 streams, stream every game and have vods. Bundle it with a proper tournament over a weekend and get it decided.
The matches are great, but it kills me getting up at 4AM so I can watch the FEW matches that are cast that day.
I'm of the opposite opinion, I very much prefer a tournament over several weeks. I can't watch more than a few series each day before I get bored. The level of play gets higher when the players can prepare for their games as opposed to having to play tons of games in a day. When the tournament is over a longer period of time I think we get more hype and storylines.
DRG, MC, MVP, NesTea, MMA, MKP are the top 6 players to ever play sc2 to date, all are out or could not qualify for WCS Korea. DAYUM
Of course who you think is better is your opinion but im putting those as the top 6 based on earnings, but I dont know if many would argue that statement anyway?
WCS Korea is a flop as a spectator, because its just a few players and matches each day - Just smash it out already. Do it on 2 streams, stream every game and have vods. Bundle it with a proper tournament over a weekend and get it decided.
The matches are great, but it kills me getting up at 4AM so I can watch the FEW matches that are cast that day.
I also agree with this. It takes place on the weekdays at 5 am for me and for a very good portion of people who watch GSL. I cannot watch every night, fortunately I have a subscription, but for those that dont I feel sorry for. They easily couldve done it in a week.
On August 15 2012 01:33 0neder wrote: They have nothing to win and everything to lose by playing WCS. Even by beating Jaedong or someone like that, people would be able to see how close they are, and even if they were very far apart, people would be able to tell that MVP and MC's reign will be shortly coming to an end with HotS.
That makes no sense whatsoever btw. The forfeits look more like sponsor related obligations tbh
It could be sponsors obligations like the above poster said, or Being Dudes that play video games for money, these players are just going to IEM to try an win some cash. If they could do both they would probably do both.
All I can say, SCII gives Koreans the chance to win money oversees, but the traveling hours sometimes force them to make choices.
Man this blows... MVP and MC two of the best SC2 players in the world, won't get to truly have their shot in WCS, which imo is the biggest, most important competition that SC2 has had so far... At least let them play from remote location or something, even tho its not the most favorable conditions, its a shot.
On August 15 2012 04:27 Grimmyman123 wrote: WCS Korea is a flop as a spectator, because its just a few players and matches each day - Just smash it out already. Do it on 2 streams, stream every game and have vods. Bundle it with a proper tournament over a weekend and get it decided.
The matches are great, but it kills me getting up at 4AM so I can watch the FEW matches that are cast that day.
I'd rather have 4 matches a day instead of an MLG style 10 hour long broadcast marathon thank you very much. Tends to make for better games and better casting. Also it's fairly obvious that the way this tournament is scheduled and laid out is to bridge a gap between GSL 3 and 4.
Don't give a damn if IEM is easier / good money / sponsor booths there / they were already in WCS LB anyway etc etc this is meant to be the god damn World Championship as run by the people who make the fucking game.
So for the two top players all time in SC2 by earnings and GSL wins to decide to forfeit their way out of it is a massive dis-servicve IMO, it just devalues the whole competition. I can't think of any other big name SC2 player who has forfeited out after qualifying for their WCS national championship.
On August 15 2012 06:11 MVTaylor wrote: Really disappointed in their decisions.
Don't give a damn if IEM is easier / good money / sponsor booths there / they were already in WCS LB anyway etc etc this is meant to be the god damn World Championship as run by the people who make the fucking game.
So for the two top players all time in SC2 by earnings and GSL wins to decide to forfeit their way out of it is a massive dis-servicve IMO, it just devalues the whole competition. I can't think of any other big name SC2 player who has forfeited out after qualifying for their WCS national championship.
They shouldn't have made the WCS Korea schedule so ridiculous so that It's nearly impossible to travel while It's happening, they are not the only ones who are going to have to forfeit. Everyone going to MLG raleigh will have to forfeit when that happens too.
Seriously there was no reason to turn WCS Korea nationals into a mini GSL, It's not that important in the grand scheme of things. WCS Asia is going to be done over a weekend and the WCS grand finals will be too.
On August 15 2012 00:58 AxiR wrote: Couldn't they just have rescheduled the games?
No, they only have 3 weeks to work with. They need to get the losers bracket round 1 AND 2 out of the way this week, which means that the games can't be rescheduled.
why is only having 3 weeks a problem... Every other WCS nationals was done in a single weekend...
On August 15 2012 04:27 Grimmyman123 wrote: WCS Korea is a flop as a spectator, because its just a few players and matches each day - Just smash it out already. Do it on 2 streams, stream every game and have vods. Bundle it with a proper tournament over a weekend and get it decided.
The matches are great, but it kills me getting up at 4AM so I can watch the FEW matches that are cast that day.
I can only say I disagree with you on the 'smash into one weekend' point. I'm okay with WCS Korea lasting longer.
I'm disappointed with WCS Korea being the ONLY WCS national qualifier that actually costs money to watch in a decent quality. Limiting viewers to 240p is bull. You can't even read supply numbers. And even if you upgrade to 'HD' you're still getting only 580p quality.
Top on the fact that I have to be awake at 3 in the frickin' morning or I can't watch it for free(in that glorious 240p) and that just makes me hate GOM even more for this.
Well that is unfortunate but I guess it isn't as much of a big deal as they were in the losers bracket of WCS anyways, I will wish MC to do well at Gamescom !! I hope he takes it home!! Gogo MC For the win!! :-D
On August 15 2012 06:11 MVTaylor wrote: Really disappointed in their decisions.
Don't give a damn if IEM is easier / good money / sponsor booths there / they were already in WCS LB anyway etc etc this is meant to be the god damn World Championship as run by the people who make the fucking game.
So for the two top players all time in SC2 by earnings and GSL wins to decide to forfeit their way out of it is a massive dis-servicve IMO, it just devalues the whole competition. I can't think of any other big name SC2 player who has forfeited out after qualifying for their WCS national championship.
Taeja? Actually, all the koreans that attended MLG Arena all forfeited the qualifiers...
People have to realize that commitments for tournaments are made a long time in advance. Maybe the schedule for WCS wasn't even known at the time. Look at Seed and HerO, they basically had to go to the studio straight from the airport to play. Run by the people who make the fucking game but refuses to make LAN for important tournaments? Who is doing who a dis-service? Also, for many countries, WCS is their defacto national championship whereas in Korea, you still have GSL, OSL.
"And I would like to announce today some groundbreaking news! The WCS Global Finals in Shanghai will have the biggest prize pool in Blizzard History! The winner of the tournament will be receiving $500,000! This is going to be the biggest SC2 tournament of all-time!
"And I would like to announce today some groundbreaking news! The WCS Global Finals in Shanghai will have the biggest prize pool in Blizzard History! The winner of the tournament will be receiving $500,000! This is going to be the biggest SC2 tournament of all-time!
On August 15 2012 04:27 Grimmyman123 wrote: WCS Korea is a flop as a spectator, because its just a few players and matches each day - Just smash it out already. Do it on 2 streams, stream every game and have vods. Bundle it with a proper tournament over a weekend and get it decided.
The matches are great, but it kills me getting up at 4AM so I can watch the FEW matches that are cast that day.
I can only say I disagree with you on the 'smash into one weekend' point. I'm okay with WCS Korea lasting longer.
I'm disappointed with WCS Korea being the ONLY WCS national qualifier that actually costs money to watch in a decent quality. Limiting viewers to 240p is bull. You can't even read supply numbers. And even if you upgrade to 'HD' you're still getting only 580p quality.
Top on the fact that I have to be awake at 3 in the frickin' morning or I can't watch it for free(in that glorious 240p) and that just makes me hate GOM even more for this.
or you should be thankful cuz this WCS is 6000x better than every others combine, basically a GSL Super Tourney in dual tournament style with KeSPA stars competing (and, sorta, winning). I would not watch WCS Australia even in 4K definition and with Tastosis casting
On August 15 2012 01:03 Champloo wrote: I don't understand why they drag out the Korean WCS that much anyway. All the other WCSs were played during one weekend and this should've been too.
Korean qualifier has been notorious for being way harder than the actual tourney. The last ten WCGs were like that also. Why u complain much?
"And I would like to announce today some groundbreaking news! The WCS Global Finals in Shanghai will have the biggest prize pool in Blizzard History! The winner of the tournament will be receiving $500,000! This is going to be the biggest SC2 tournament of all-time!
OMG, if blizzard reads that.. They're gonna do it.
"And I would like to announce today some groundbreaking news! The WCS Global Finals in Shanghai will have the biggest prize pool in Blizzard History! The winner of the tournament will be receiving $500,000! This is going to be the biggest SC2 tournament of all-time!
There is one huge wrong translation in this article The correct translation is like this :
LG-IM's coach, coach Kang stated that "attending GamesCom was something we had been preparing and planning from long time ago.
He told us attending IEM is not main his purpose but "GamesCom" is his real main reason because the sponsor LG Electronis were preparing it for a long time with Incredibe Miracle SC2 team.
On August 15 2012 12:14 TommyP wrote: It would never be that big.
If Blizzard gets it in their head that they wanna compete with Riot, it very well could be. The prize pool for LoL Season 2 Championships (which is basically a rough version of WCS) is announced as $2 million. With the absurdly top-heavy payout structures a lot of tournaments use, the first place prize could easily be $750k or $1MM. Now, that's for a 5 person team obviously, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a $250k first place for WCS if Blizzard wants to go down that road.
On August 15 2012 12:14 TommyP wrote: It would never be that big.
If Blizzard gets it in their head that they wanna compete with Riot, it very well could be. The prize pool for LoL Season 2 Championships (which is basically a rough version of WCS) is announced as $2 million. With the absurdly top-heavy payout structures a lot of tournaments use, the first place prize could easily be $750k or $1MM. Now, that's for a 5 person team obviously, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a $250k first place for WCS if Blizzard wants to go down that road.
Blizzard has no where near as much money as Tencent.
Getting into a purse depth war with Riot simply isn't very smart unless you're backed by Google or another giant.
On August 15 2012 12:36 Stratos_speAr wrote: Did they not have these schedules out beforehand for all of the brackets? If so, I feel like this is very unprofessional from MC and MVP.
AFAIK, The WCS schedule came out pretty late. IM probably already committed to gamescom.
Mvp is a professional and he knows how to act like one, he obviously didn't forfeit WCS Korea just so he could go play in IEM. They likely committed to being at the LG booth at Gamescom to do promotion for their sponsors months ago.
"And I would like to announce today some groundbreaking news! The WCS Global Finals in Shanghai will have the biggest prize pool in Blizzard History! The winner of the tournament will be receiving $500,000! This is going to be the biggest SC2 tournament of all-time!
that'd be hilarious :D
Lol
It sucks MC won't be able to represent korea but i can understand why he chose IEM instead.
On August 15 2012 12:38 VariousTence wrote: There is one huge wrong translation in this article The correct translation is like this :
LG-IM's coach, coach Kang stated that "attending GamesCom was something we had been preparing and planning from long time ago.
He told us attending IEM is not main his purpose but "GamesCom" is his real main reason because the sponsor LG Electronis were preparing it for a long time with Incredibe Miracle SC2 team.
Ahhh thank you
On August 15 2012 12:44 Strawburry17 wrote: Well, guys this is SeeKer's translation.
Always missing the most important point.
MVP doesn't think attending IEM is important but GamesCom is the most important.
That's why he had to
Welcome back . Thank you for your input Strawburry
On August 15 2012 00:57 Full.tilt wrote: Ban them from GSL right?
If they went and threw matches in such a way that it was an embarrassment to GOM then they almost certainly would get banned. This is just a scheduling problem, don't compare it to NaNiwa being a douche-bag.
GOM could use a slap in the face like this so they stop treating their foreigner market so dismally. The foreigner event will have a higher resolution at a lower price, and the quality of foreigner games is rising. All that gom has left is "prestige" as an excuse to charge 20 bucks a month for cell-phone quality(note it's "hq" not "HD") video. They need the competition.
On August 15 2012 13:44 Snoodles wrote: GOM could use a slap in the face like this so they stop treating their foreigner market so dismally. The foreigner event will have a higher resolution at a lower price, and the quality of foreigner games is rising. All that gom has left is "prestige" as an excuse to charge 20 bucks a month for cell-phone quality(note it's "hq" not "HD") video. They need the competition.
There is one huge wrong translation in this article The correct translation is like this :
LG-IM's coach, coach Kang stated that "attending GamesCom was something we had been preparing and planning from long time ago.
He told us attending IEM is not main his purpose but "GamesCom" is his real main reason because the sponsor LG Electronis were preparing it for a long time with Incredibe Miracle SC2 team.
This is disappointing that they forfeit the WCS. However, on a positive note, it should be fun to see how well they do at IEM. Especially since IM has a decent amount of players in attendance.
This is really unfortunate for the WCS. I certainly won't complain that two of the greatest players in the world will be at gamescom, because that means I might get the chance to meet them again. But a World Championship without them just feels incomplete and wrong. It will still be a great tournament, but I feel like now the question who is the best player in the world cannot be answered without a doubt. The afterthought "what if MC or MVP had not forfeited..." will stay, at least for me it will probably be that way.
But I'm really looking forward to seeing them play in the IEM nevertheless
On August 15 2012 16:10 Mekare wrote: This is really unfortunate for the WCS. I certainly won't complain that two of the greatest players in the world will be at gamescom, because that means I might get the chance to meet them again. But a World Championship without them just feels incomplete and wrong. It will still be a great tournament, but I feel like now the question who is the best player in the world cannot be answered without a doubt. The afterthought "what if MC or MVP had not forfeited..." will stay, at least for me it will probably be that way.
But I'm really looking forward to seeing them play in the IEM nevertheless
Well, I don't think one tournament (any tournament) could really decide the best player in the world without a doubt anyways. Like in BW, it is about consistency. Winning a MSL/OSL/WCG did not automatically make you the best. You had to win multiple to even be considered.
On August 15 2012 16:10 Mekare wrote: This is really unfortunate for the WCS. I certainly won't complain that two of the greatest players in the world will be at gamescom, because that means I might get the chance to meet them again. But a World Championship without them just feels incomplete and wrong. It will still be a great tournament, but I feel like now the question who is the best player in the world cannot be answered without a doubt. The afterthought "what if MC or MVP had not forfeited..." will stay, at least for me it will probably be that way.
But I'm really looking forward to seeing them play in the IEM nevertheless
To be fair, Mvp and MC already lost. There is a good chance they'd still make the top ten, but it's not like they were in the top eight and forfeited. They got beat by Polt and Leenock.
I doubt they would've forfeited if they still had been in Winner Bracket but since they both lost their first matches and would've had to fight through the whole LB against extremely strong competition it makes sense if they can win money elsewhere more easily.
On August 15 2012 17:01 s3rp wrote: I doubt they would've forfeited if they still had been in Winner Bracket but since they both lost their first matches and would've had to fight through the whole LB against extremely strong competition it makes sense if they can win money elsewhere more easily.
Not sure about that. If there were in winners, this would have been avoided. But they probably made their commitments long before the schedules were out so they might have forfeited even if in winners (and drop to LB) since you only need top 10 to make WCS Asia.
There are so many tournaments these days clashes are inevitable. The top Players can pick and choose depending on their preferences. Each tournament is an earning opportunity so having an abundance of tournaments is a good thing from a player perspective. Obviously a particular player will have to miss some tournaments because of the sheer number of them. At least MC and MVP had opportunity to qualify for WCS Asia but being knocked into LB effectively lost them the chance to progress given their commitment to Gamescom.
This is just not fair at all, for all 3 sides, the IEM, the WCS and the PLAYERS.
The WCS will miss 2 of the best 5 players in the world for sure! The players must decide for almost safe pricemobney at iem or a risk big money pot at WCS (global).
This reminds me of Stephano attending at Homestorycup 5 or WCS france, he decided for wcs france, cuz' that was a safe win and there is no concurrenc in europe. Allthough he might have been able to break the homestorycups oppenents easily too.
It is not good, that two dates of greast sc2 attend on the same days. Will miss MC & MVP at WCS
On August 15 2012 17:34 FamesCorv wrote: This is just not fair at all, for all 3 sides, the IEM, the WCS and the PLAYERS.
The WCS will miss 2 of the best 5 players in the world for sure! The players must decide for almost safe pricemobney at iem or a risk big money pot at WCS (global).
This reminds me of Stephano attending at Homestorycup 5 or WCS france, he decided for wcs france, cuz' that was a safe win and there is no concurrenc in europe. Allthough he might have been able to break the homestorycups oppenents easily too.
It is not good, that two dates of greast sc2 attend on the same days. Will miss MC & MVP at WCS
Yeah, well... Stephano made the right call. He won WCS France and is now a representative for France.
On August 15 2012 12:14 TommyP wrote: It would never be that big.
If Blizzard gets it in their head that they wanna compete with Riot, it very well could be. The prize pool for LoL Season 2 Championships (which is basically a rough version of WCS) is announced as $2 million. With the absurdly top-heavy payout structures a lot of tournaments use, the first place prize could easily be $750k or $1MM. Now, that's for a 5 person team obviously, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a $250k first place for WCS if Blizzard wants to go down that road.
Blizzard has no where near as much money as Tencent.
Getting into a purse depth war with Riot simply isn't very smart unless you're backed by Google or another giant.
I love how you know absolutely nothing but act like you do.
The Activision-Blizzard merger was quoted at $18billion.
The Riot game purchase-in by Tencent was quoted at $400 million.
You're comparing the largest publisher in the world to a chinese web-game company...
I'd be willing to bet that World of Warcraft alone is worth more than all of Tencent.
On August 15 2012 12:14 TommyP wrote: It would never be that big.
If Blizzard gets it in their head that they wanna compete with Riot, it very well could be. The prize pool for LoL Season 2 Championships (which is basically a rough version of WCS) is announced as $2 million. With the absurdly top-heavy payout structures a lot of tournaments use, the first place prize could easily be $750k or $1MM. Now, that's for a 5 person team obviously, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a $250k first place for WCS if Blizzard wants to go down that road.
Blizzard has no where near as much money as Tencent.
Getting into a purse depth war with Riot simply isn't very smart unless you're backed by Google or another giant.
I love how you know absolutely nothing but act like you do.
The Activision-Blizzard merger was quoted at $18billion.
The Riot game purchase-in by Tencent was quoted at $400 million.
You're comparing the largest publisher in the world to a chinese web-game company...
I'd be willing to bet that World of Warcraft alone is worth more than all of Tencent.
Worth does not convert in actual cash. It's possible for something to be worth billions but have little to no liquidity.
While I don't doubt that Blizzard could certainly do more work in promoting SC2 as an e-sport (the WCS is a great step from beyond Blizzcon) however we all know how greedy Activision has made them so expecting too much more is naive if anything.
On August 15 2012 12:14 TommyP wrote: It would never be that big.
If Blizzard gets it in their head that they wanna compete with Riot, it very well could be. The prize pool for LoL Season 2 Championships (which is basically a rough version of WCS) is announced as $2 million. With the absurdly top-heavy payout structures a lot of tournaments use, the first place prize could easily be $750k or $1MM. Now, that's for a 5 person team obviously, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a $250k first place for WCS if Blizzard wants to go down that road.
Blizzard has no where near as much money as Tencent.
Getting into a purse depth war with Riot simply isn't very smart unless you're backed by Google or another giant.
I love how you know absolutely nothing but act like you do.
The Activision-Blizzard merger was quoted at $18billion.
The Riot game purchase-in by Tencent was quoted at $400 million.
You're comparing the largest publisher in the world to a chinese web-game company...
I'd be willing to bet that World of Warcraft alone is worth more than all of Tencent.
Worth does not convert in actual cash. It's possible for something to be worth billions but have little to no liquidity.
While I don't doubt that Blizzard could certainly do more work in promoting SC2 as an e-sport (the WCS is a great step from beyond Blizzcon) however we all know how greedy Activision has made them so expecting too much more is naive if anything.
Your valuation comes from your cashflow amongst other things, when said cashflow is resultant of a yearly revenue of 10+billion USD, you can have a lot more cash than the other companies ever going to have. You can sell things, you can restructure, you can cut costs, ie, fire people.
The point is he said that Blizzard can't compete in an arms race with a much smaller company, which is wrong. What you are saying is irrelevant to the point.
On August 15 2012 12:14 TommyP wrote: It would never be that big.
If Blizzard gets it in their head that they wanna compete with Riot, it very well could be. The prize pool for LoL Season 2 Championships (which is basically a rough version of WCS) is announced as $2 million. With the absurdly top-heavy payout structures a lot of tournaments use, the first place prize could easily be $750k or $1MM. Now, that's for a 5 person team obviously, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a $250k first place for WCS if Blizzard wants to go down that road.
Blizzard has no where near as much money as Tencent.
Getting into a purse depth war with Riot simply isn't very smart unless you're backed by Google or another giant.
I love how you know absolutely nothing but act like you do.
The Activision-Blizzard merger was quoted at $18billion.
The Riot game purchase-in by Tencent was quoted at $400 million.
You're comparing the largest publisher in the world to a chinese web-game company...
I'd be willing to bet that World of Warcraft alone is worth more than all of Tencent.
Worth does not convert in actual cash. It's possible for something to be worth billions but have little to no liquidity.
While I don't doubt that Blizzard could certainly do more work in promoting SC2 as an e-sport (the WCS is a great step from beyond Blizzcon) however we all know how greedy Activision has made them so expecting too much more is naive if anything.
Your valuation comes from your cashflow amongst other things, when said cashflow is resultant of a yearly revenue of 10+billion USD, you can have a lot more cash than the other companies ever going to have. You can sell things, you can restructure, you can cut costs, ie, fire people.
The point is he said that Blizzard can't compete in an arms race with a much smaller company, which is wrong. What you are saying is irrelevant to the point.
He said
Getting into a purse depth war with Riot simply isn't very smart unless you're backed by Google or another giant.
Which cannot be proven or dis proven by any of us. What you said doesn't exactly disprove what I said either as only Blizzard know how much actual cash they have to spend
Its not just IEM, they will for sure play on the Blizzard Stage. Its huge publicity for the players and the Teams/Sponsors. Missing GamesCon would just be a big fail
I think dragging out WCS Korea, and in turn making GSL Finals on one weekend was the wrong choice. Running WCS Korea on one extended Weekend without major tournaments would've been the right choice, conceidering it was held like that everywhere else. It's wierd to do different qualifiers in different countries, meaning players planing ahead will be favored in korea, where as players good at adapting during weekend tournaments are favored everywhere else.. makes no sense to me. Too bad, would've loved to see MVP and MC play some more... i don't know wether they would've made it through though.
On August 15 2012 18:25 LJ wrote: They were already eliminated anyway, losers brackets are a joke -why should anyone get a second chance anyway? What other sport / game does that?
Looserbracket is the one thing the eSports community has which is alot better than what conventional sports are doing. Single Elimination is like a coin-throw tournament. You can be last or second just depending on your luck.
On August 15 2012 18:25 LJ wrote: They were already eliminated anyway, losers brackets are a joke -why should anyone get a second chance anyway? What other sport / game does that?
lol... A lot of sports have group stages also so teams aren't knocked out after 1 loss.
Someone earlier in this thread made the best recap of the current situation.
"With serious sponsorship comes serious responsibility"
MC and Mvp knew damn well what they signed up for (especially MC seeing as he joined the foreign team) and they could have avoided the mess entirely if they had been good enough to actually win their first round.
On August 15 2012 12:14 TommyP wrote: It would never be that big.
If Blizzard gets it in their head that they wanna compete with Riot, it very well could be. The prize pool for LoL Season 2 Championships (which is basically a rough version of WCS) is announced as $2 million. With the absurdly top-heavy payout structures a lot of tournaments use, the first place prize could easily be $750k or $1MM. Now, that's for a 5 person team obviously, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a $250k first place for WCS if Blizzard wants to go down that road.
Blizzard has no where near as much money as Tencent.
Getting into a purse depth war with Riot simply isn't very smart unless you're backed by Google or another giant.
I love how you know absolutely nothing but act like you do.
The Activision-Blizzard merger was quoted at $18billion.
The Riot game purchase-in by Tencent was quoted at $400 million.
You're comparing the largest publisher in the world to a chinese web-game company...
I'd be willing to bet that World of Warcraft alone is worth more than all of Tencent.
Please do some research before you post. Tencent is like the Google/Yahoo of China and is worth 4x more then Activision Blizzard.
Well it's totally disappointing. Both MVP and MC have been known so far for great sportsmanship, but that's blowing it all away. Both got their seed ahead of players like Taeja and Byun (who were 11th and 12th in the GSL ranking) who would've loved to play in this tournament and would've shown a great performance for sure. It's totally unfair and selfish behavior and both players reputation has got a big knock for me. I'm really disappointed in them and their teams...
On August 15 2012 19:15 TeeTS wrote: Well it's totally disappointing. Both MVP and MC have been known so far for great sportsmanship, but that's blowing it all away. Both got their seed ahead of players like Taeja and Byun (who were 11th and 12th in the GSL ranking) who would've loved to play in this tournament and would've shown a great performance for sure. It's totally unfair and selfish behavior and both players reputation has got a big knock for me. I'm really disappointed in them and their teams...
On August 15 2012 19:15 TeeTS wrote: Well it's totally disappointing. Both MVP and MC have been known so far for great sportsmanship, but that's blowing it all away. Both got their seed ahead of players like Taeja and Byun (who were 11th and 12th in the GSL ranking) who would've loved to play in this tournament and would've shown a great performance for sure. It's totally unfair and selfish behavior and both players reputation has got a big knock for me. I'm really disappointed in them and their teams...
lol, and they should just withdraw from a previous commitment to Gamescom to show their professionalism and sportsmanship? Don't think Taeja loved the tournament that much since he skipped the qualifiers to go to MLG Arena. So I suppose you are disappointed in TL as well...
If anything you could say that "big sponsorship is killing esports" but that is borderline moronic.
MC and Mvp got themselves into this mess by not managing to win their round one match. Judging by the GOM statement they realized what situation they were in and did not put GOM on the spot and promptly notified them about the problem.
On August 15 2012 19:15 TeeTS wrote: Well it's totally disappointing. Both MVP and MC have been known so far for great sportsmanship, but that's blowing it all away. Both got their seed ahead of players like Taeja and Byun (who were 11th and 12th in the GSL ranking) who would've loved to play in this tournament and would've shown a great performance for sure. It's totally unfair and selfish behavior and both players reputation has got a big knock for me. I'm really disappointed in them and their teams...
lol, and they should just withdraw from a previous commitment to Gamescom to show their professionalism and sportsmanship? Don't think Taeja loved the tournament that much since he skipped the qualifiers to go to MLG Arena. So I suppose you are disappointed in TL as well...
If they have to go to gamescon, then they should reject the invite to WCS from the start. Where is the problem? And it's their manager's and coache's duty to keep an eye on their schedule. And if their commitment at Gamescon was planned long before, then they are at fault. This is not unlucky but a big failure from players/coach side.
On August 15 2012 19:15 TeeTS wrote: Well it's totally disappointing. Both MVP and MC have been known so far for great sportsmanship, but that's blowing it all away. Both got their seed ahead of players like Taeja and Byun (who were 11th and 12th in the GSL ranking) who would've loved to play in this tournament and would've shown a great performance for sure. It's totally unfair and selfish behavior and both players reputation has got a big knock for me. I'm really disappointed in them and their teams...
lol, and they should just withdraw from a previous commitment to Gamescom to show their professionalism and sportsmanship? Don't think Taeja loved the tournament that much since he skipped the qualifiers to go to MLG Arena. So I suppose you are disappointed in TL as well...
If they have to go to gamescon, then they should reject the invite to WCS from the start. Where is the problem? And it's their manager's and coache's duty to keep an eye on their schedule. And if their commitment at Gamescon was planned long before, then they are at fault. This is not unlucky but a big failure from players/coach side.
Do you know the WCS schedule? They would have been fine if they won their first 2 matches. Obviously, that was their goal (so the schedule didn't have conflict). Things didn't work out and that got them in a scheduling conflict they couldn't work out. Players do this all time. Maybe they committed to MLG but since they got far into GSL, they cancel. It is not feasible to only commit to a month long tournament only if you can play on all possible dates.
great news! bad for the korean wcs qualifiers obviously, but awesome for iem and everybody attending it! who would'a thought i'd be happy for mvp and min-chul to loose so that i can see him live^^
This is what happens when there are no consequences for players failing to attend tourneys or not sticking to a tourneys scheduling, if they entered WCS then they should honor that entry and play the games, players shouldn't be allowed to just pick and choose when they can leave a tourney as it undermines the tourney and sport as a whole and is an insult to the fans who watch it, imagine if you bought tickets or bought the pass because MC and MVP were playing and you knew that you would see them in losers bracket if they did lose and now after the fact they can just leave with no real consequences brought to them, any mainstream sport wouldn't allow this sort of thing unless a player was pulling out because of injury.
A similar thing happened with a recent gigabyte invitational, a lot of people watched day 1 and then day 2 came along and some players didn't turn up, no consequences but the fans who watched day 1 with the intention of watching day2 were fucked over as if they had known that there was no day2 then they might not have watched day1 to begin with.
Not to mention the other players who got jacked out of their spots as they were taken up by MC and MVP.
On August 15 2012 20:04 mememolly wrote: This is what happens when there are no consequences for players failing to attend tourneys or not sticking to a tourneys scheduling, if they entered WCS then they should honor that entry and play the games, players shouldn't be allowed to just pick and choose when they can leave a tourney as it undermines the tourney and sport as a whole and is an insult to the fans who watch it, imagine if you bought tickets or bought the pass because MC and MVP were playing and you knew that you would see them in losers bracket if they did lose and now after the fact they can just leave with no real consequences brought to them, any mainstream sport wouldn't allow this sort of thing unless a player was pulling out because of injury.
A similar thing happened with a recent gigabyte invitational, a lot of people watched day 1 and then day 2 came along and some players didn't turn up, no consequences but the fans who watched day 1 with the intention of watching day2 were fucked over as if they had known that there was no day2 then they might not have watched day1 to begin with.
Not to mention the other players who got jacked out of their spots as they were taken up by MC and MVP.
Stop acting as if you are entitled, you are not.
The players are pressured as the two best players in the world, to attend as many tournaments, play as many matches and win as much as possible. Your attitude is extremely disrespectful, take MVP as an example, even with his injury he is being forced to play certain tournaments and matches with no regard to his health. MC is someone who even top casters are amazed at; he is in nearly every major tournament for sponsors and fans, they are not God, they can't be everywhere at once.
They owe you nothing, and the decision is wholey theirs to make.
On August 15 2012 19:15 TeeTS wrote: Well it's totally disappointing. Both MVP and MC have been known so far for great sportsmanship, but that's blowing it all away. Both got their seed ahead of players like Taeja and Byun (who were 11th and 12th in the GSL ranking) who would've loved to play in this tournament and would've shown a great performance for sure. It's totally unfair and selfish behavior and both players reputation has got a big knock for me. I'm really disappointed in them and their teams...
lol, and they should just withdraw from a previous commitment to Gamescom to show their professionalism and sportsmanship? Don't think Taeja loved the tournament that much since he skipped the qualifiers to go to MLG Arena. So I suppose you are disappointed in TL as well...
If they have to go to gamescon, then they should reject the invite to WCS from the start. Where is the problem? And it's their manager's and coache's duty to keep an eye on their schedule. And if their commitment at Gamescon was planned long before, then they are at fault. This is not unlucky but a big failure from players/coach side.
Do you know the WCS schedule? They would have been fine if they won their first 2 matches. Obviously, that was their goal (so the schedule didn't have conflict). Things didn't work out and that got them in a scheduling conflict they couldn't work out. Players do this all time. Maybe they committed to MLG but since they got far into GSL, they cancel. It is not feasible to only commit to a month long tournament only if you can play on all possible dates.
And your reponse regarding Taeja?
you don't get it, do you? There is a difference between leaving a tournament before the start and while it's ongoing. If Taeja decided to go for MLG and not try to qualify for WCS, then it's totally fine (though I was not aware of it, it doesn't change anything, just take Supernova instead of Taeja). If you enter a tournament you should be aware of it's schedule and not speculate on circumstances that might happen or not. the players who declined their MLG spots did it way in advance (or did it to unforseen circumstances as visa problems, which seem to happen sometimes), so I don't see any parallels to this case. If the community is accepting this behavior it will cause damage to esports in the longrun for sure!
On August 15 2012 20:04 mememolly wrote: This is what happens when there are no consequences for players failing to attend tourneys or not sticking to a tourneys scheduling, if they entered WCS then they should honor that entry and play the games, players shouldn't be allowed to just pick and choose when they can leave a tourney as it undermines the tourney and sport as a whole and is an insult to the fans who watch it, imagine if you bought tickets or bought the pass because MC and MVP were playing and you knew that you would see them in losers bracket if they did lose and now after the fact they can just leave with no real consequences brought to them, any mainstream sport wouldn't allow this sort of thing unless a player was pulling out because of injury.
A similar thing happened with a recent gigabyte invitational, a lot of people watched day 1 and then day 2 came along and some players didn't turn up, no consequences but the fans who watched day 1 with the intention of watching day2 were fucked over as if they had known that there was no day2 then they might not have watched day1 to begin with.
Not to mention the other players who got jacked out of their spots as they were taken up by MC and MVP.
Stop acting as if you are entitled, you are not.
The players are pressured as the two best players in the world, to attend as many tournaments, play as many matches and win as much as possible. Your attitude is extremely disrespectful, take MVP as an example, even with his injury he is being forced to play certain tournaments and matches with no regard to his health. MC is someone who even top casters are amazed at; he is in nearly every major tournament for sponsors and fans, they are not God, they can't be everywhere at once.
They owe you nothing, and the decision is wholey theirs to make.
How is that acting entitled?
they owe the organisers of WCS Korea, they signed up knowing that if they lost the first round they would go down to the losers bracket and play X games on X days, it ruins the integrity of the tournament and therefore "esports" if players can just drop out suddenly from a tourney with no real consequences to themselves.
Their decision is theirs but that doesn't mean that they made the right one.
In any sports if you sign up for a tourney then you honor the contract, if you choose to drop out there should be consequences otherwise you build a culture within the sport where players have all the power and can do whatever the fuck they want and fans and tourneys and sponsors get jacked over because of it.
All I'm saying is that there should be consequences for this type of behaviour, if they want to quit a tourney then fine but there should be consequences to deter this becoming part of the sports culture as it undermines the integrity of the sport.
All your talk of pressure and MVP's injury etc add nothing to your argument and ignores the real issue at hand btw.
On August 15 2012 20:04 mememolly wrote: This is what happens when there are no consequences for players failing to attend tourneys or not sticking to a tourneys scheduling, if they entered WCS then they should honor that entry and play the games, players shouldn't be allowed to just pick and choose when they can leave a tourney as it undermines the tourney and sport as a whole and is an insult to the fans who watch it, imagine if you bought tickets or bought the pass because MC and MVP were playing and you knew that you would see them in losers bracket if they did lose and now after the fact they can just leave with no real consequences brought to them, any mainstream sport wouldn't allow this sort of thing unless a player was pulling out because of injury.
A similar thing happened with a recent gigabyte invitational, a lot of people watched day 1 and then day 2 came along and some players didn't turn up, no consequences but the fans who watched day 1 with the intention of watching day2 were fucked over as if they had known that there was no day2 then they might not have watched day1 to begin with.
Not to mention the other players who got jacked out of their spots as they were taken up by MC and MVP.
Stop acting as if you are entitled, you are not.
The players are pressured as the two best players in the world, to attend as many tournaments, play as many matches and win as much as possible. Your attitude is extremely disrespectful, take MVP as an example, even with his injury he is being forced to play certain tournaments and matches with no regard to his health. MC is someone who even top casters are amazed at; he is in nearly every major tournament for sponsors and fans, they are not God, they can't be everywhere at once.
They owe you nothing, and the decision is wholey theirs to make.
How is that acting entitled?
they owe the organisers of WCS Korea, they signed up knowing that if they lost the first round they would go down to the losers bracket and play X games on X days, it ruins the integrity of the tournament and therefore "esports" if players can just drop out suddenly from a tourney with no real consequences to themselves.
Their decision is theirs but that doesn't mean that they made the right one.
In any sports if you sign up for a tourney then you honor the contract, if you choose to drop out there should be consequences otherwise you build a culture within the sport where players have all the power and can do whatever the fuck they want and fans and tourneys and sponsors get jacked over because of it.
All I'm saying is that there should be consequences for this type of behaviour, if they want to quit a tourney then fine but there should be consequences to deter this becoming part of the sports culture as it undermines the integrity of the sport.
All your talk of pressure and MVP's injury etc add nothing to your argument and ignores the real issue at hand btw.
There's no issue, seriously. They don't forfeit tournaments because they find forfeiting tournaments fun.
This is the first time I've ever seen Mvp or MC forfeit a tournament and people are getting all pissy like they've just ruined their image of professionalism or something ridiculous.
It was the first round of the losers bracket, it barely affects the tournament at all.
If Taeja or Byun wanted a spot they should have qualified or been top 10 GSL points, unfortunately Mvp cannot qualify 3 times for WCS Korea like he could for the Blizzard Cup last year and let a bunch of other people in.
Stop trying to make drama out of nothing, I hate what " esports " has done to this community.
On August 15 2012 00:56 RUFinalBoss wrote: hmm WCS korea is a total flop
WCS has been a total flop in general for the last couple of years. They are actually getting worse and worse with each year.
Stop confusing WCS with WCG. This is the first WCS ever and it's far from a flop, the continental events and the global event will be really interesting to follow aswell after all these qualifiers.
On August 15 2012 20:04 mememolly wrote: This is what happens when there are no consequences for players failing to attend tourneys or not sticking to a tourneys scheduling, if they entered WCS then they should honor that entry and play the games, players shouldn't be allowed to just pick and choose when they can leave a tourney as it undermines the tourney and sport as a whole and is an insult to the fans who watch it, imagine if you bought tickets or bought the pass because MC and MVP were playing and you knew that you would see them in losers bracket if they did lose and now after the fact they can just leave with no real consequences brought to them, any mainstream sport wouldn't allow this sort of thing unless a player was pulling out because of injury.
A similar thing happened with a recent gigabyte invitational, a lot of people watched day 1 and then day 2 came along and some players didn't turn up, no consequences but the fans who watched day 1 with the intention of watching day2 were fucked over as if they had known that there was no day2 then they might not have watched day1 to begin with.
Not to mention the other players who got jacked out of their spots as they were taken up by MC and MVP.
Stop acting as if you are entitled, you are not.
The players are pressured as the two best players in the world, to attend as many tournaments, play as many matches and win as much as possible. Your attitude is extremely disrespectful, take MVP as an example, even with his injury he is being forced to play certain tournaments and matches with no regard to his health. MC is someone who even top casters are amazed at; he is in nearly every major tournament for sponsors and fans, they are not God, they can't be everywhere at once.
They owe you nothing, and the decision is wholey theirs to make.
How is that acting entitled?
they owe the organisers of WCS Korea, they signed up knowing that if they lost the first round they would go down to the losers bracket and play X games on X days, it ruins the integrity of the tournament and therefore "esports" if players can just drop out suddenly from a tourney with no real consequences to themselves.
Their decision is theirs but that doesn't mean that they made the right one.
In any sports if you sign up for a tourney then you honor the contract, if you choose to drop out there should be consequences otherwise you build a culture within the sport where players have all the power and can do whatever the fuck they want and fans and tourneys and sponsors get jacked over because of it.
All I'm saying is that there should be consequences for this type of behaviour, if they want to quit a tourney then fine but there should be consequences to deter this becoming part of the sports culture as it undermines the integrity of the sport.
All your talk of pressure and MVP's injury etc add nothing to your argument and ignores the real issue at hand btw.
Players withdraw from events last minute all them time. Not just esports but sports in general...
On August 15 2012 20:04 mememolly wrote: This is what happens when there are no consequences for players failing to attend tourneys or not sticking to a tourneys scheduling, if they entered WCS then they should honor that entry and play the games, players shouldn't be allowed to just pick and choose when they can leave a tourney as it undermines the tourney and sport as a whole and is an insult to the fans who watch it, imagine if you bought tickets or bought the pass because MC and MVP were playing and you knew that you would see them in losers bracket if they did lose and now after the fact they can just leave with no real consequences brought to them, any mainstream sport wouldn't allow this sort of thing unless a player was pulling out because of injury.
A similar thing happened with a recent gigabyte invitational, a lot of people watched day 1 and then day 2 came along and some players didn't turn up, no consequences but the fans who watched day 1 with the intention of watching day2 were fucked over as if they had known that there was no day2 then they might not have watched day1 to begin with.
Not to mention the other players who got jacked out of their spots as they were taken up by MC and MVP.
Stop acting as if you are entitled, you are not.
The players are pressured as the two best players in the world, to attend as many tournaments, play as many matches and win as much as possible. Your attitude is extremely disrespectful, take MVP as an example, even with his injury he is being forced to play certain tournaments and matches with no regard to his health. MC is someone who even top casters are amazed at; he is in nearly every major tournament for sponsors and fans, they are not God, they can't be everywhere at once.
They owe you nothing, and the decision is wholey theirs to make.
How is that acting entitled?
they owe the organisers of WCS Korea, they signed up knowing that if they lost the first round they would go down to the losers bracket and play X games on X days, it ruins the integrity of the tournament and therefore "esports" if players can just drop out suddenly from a tourney with no real consequences to themselves.
Their decision is theirs but that doesn't mean that they made the right one.
In any sports if you sign up for a tourney then you honor the contract, if you choose to drop out there should be consequences otherwise you build a culture within the sport where players have all the power and can do whatever the fuck they want and fans and tourneys and sponsors get jacked over because of it.
All I'm saying is that there should be consequences for this type of behaviour, if they want to quit a tourney then fine but there should be consequences to deter this becoming part of the sports culture as it undermines the integrity of the sport.
All your talk of pressure and MVP's injury etc add nothing to your argument and ignores the real issue at hand btw.
There's no issue, seriously. They don't forfeit tournaments because they find forfeiting tournaments fun.
This is the first time I've ever seen Mvp or MC forfeit a tournament and people are getting all pissy like they've just ruined their image of professionalism or something ridiculous.
It was the first round of the losers bracket, it barely affects the tournament at all.
If Taeja or Byun wanted a spot they should have qualified or been top 10 GSL points, unfortunately Mvp cannot qualify 3 times for WCS Korea like he could for the Blizzard Cup last year and let a bunch of other people in.
Stop trying to make drama out of nothing, I hate what " esports " has done to this community.
Well there is an issue otherwise people wouldn't be talking about it, if there is no issue then why are you contributing to a thread about a so-called non-issue?
I didn't say they did forfeit tournaments for fun so I don't know why you brought this up.
"getting all pissy" I'm just pointing out how this will happen in a sport where there are no real consequences to the players and how this might affect tourneys in the future, sponsors will be less likely to sponsor an event if players show that they can't honor contracts/sign ups.
It doesn't matter if it is the first or last round, you honor what you signed up for, this counts in all aspects of life (obviously unless you have legitimate reason to not, such as injury).
How is having an opinion that differs from yours "making drama"? If you don't like the opinion then point out why it is wrong don't just use ad-hominem tactics and label me as some "esports drama maker" or something.
On August 15 2012 00:56 RUFinalBoss wrote: hmm WCS korea is a total flop
WCS has been a total flop in general for the last couple of years. They are actually getting worse and worse with each year.
Stop confusing WCS with WCG. This is the first WCS ever and it's far from a flop, the continental events and the global event will be really interesting to follow aswell after all these qualifiers.
Oops sorry... Yea you are right I was thinking of the WCG and I have no idea what is this new event WCS.
On August 15 2012 20:04 mememolly wrote: This is what happens when there are no consequences for players failing to attend tourneys or not sticking to a tourneys scheduling, if they entered WCS then they should honor that entry and play the games, players shouldn't be allowed to just pick and choose when they can leave a tourney as it undermines the tourney and sport as a whole and is an insult to the fans who watch it, imagine if you bought tickets or bought the pass because MC and MVP were playing and you knew that you would see them in losers bracket if they did lose and now after the fact they can just leave with no real consequences brought to them, any mainstream sport wouldn't allow this sort of thing unless a player was pulling out because of injury.
A similar thing happened with a recent gigabyte invitational, a lot of people watched day 1 and then day 2 came along and some players didn't turn up, no consequences but the fans who watched day 1 with the intention of watching day2 were fucked over as if they had known that there was no day2 then they might not have watched day1 to begin with.
Not to mention the other players who got jacked out of their spots as they were taken up by MC and MVP.
Stop acting as if you are entitled, you are not.
The players are pressured as the two best players in the world, to attend as many tournaments, play as many matches and win as much as possible. Your attitude is extremely disrespectful, take MVP as an example, even with his injury he is being forced to play certain tournaments and matches with no regard to his health. MC is someone who even top casters are amazed at; he is in nearly every major tournament for sponsors and fans, they are not God, they can't be everywhere at once.
They owe you nothing, and the decision is wholey theirs to make.
How is that acting entitled?
they owe the organisers of WCS Korea, they signed up knowing that if they lost the first round they would go down to the losers bracket and play X games on X days, it ruins the integrity of the tournament and therefore "esports" if players can just drop out suddenly from a tourney with no real consequences to themselves.
Their decision is theirs but that doesn't mean that they made the right one.
In any sports if you sign up for a tourney then you honor the contract, if you choose to drop out there should be consequences otherwise you build a culture within the sport where players have all the power and can do whatever the fuck they want and fans and tourneys and sponsors get jacked over because of it.
All I'm saying is that there should be consequences for this type of behaviour, if they want to quit a tourney then fine but there should be consequences to deter this becoming part of the sports culture as it undermines the integrity of the sport.
All your talk of pressure and MVP's injury etc add nothing to your argument and ignores the real issue at hand btw.
There's no issue, seriously. They don't forfeit tournaments because they find forfeiting tournaments fun.
This is the first time I've ever seen Mvp or MC forfeit a tournament and people are getting all pissy like they've just ruined their image of professionalism or something ridiculous.
It was the first round of the losers bracket, it barely affects the tournament at all.
If Taeja or Byun wanted a spot they should have qualified or been top 10 GSL points, unfortunately Mvp cannot qualify 3 times for WCS Korea like he could for the Blizzard Cup last year and let a bunch of other people in.
Stop trying to make drama out of nothing, I hate what " esports " has done to this community.
Well there is an issue otherwise people wouldn't be talking about it, if there is no issue then why are you contributing to a thread about a so-called non-issue?
I didn't say they did forfeit tournaments for fun so I don't know why you brought this up.
"getting all pissy" I'm just pointing out how this will happen in a sport where there are no real consequences to the players and how this might affect tourneys in the future, sponsors will be less likely to sponsor an event if players show that they can't honor contracts/sign ups.
It doesn't matter if it is the first or last round, you honor what you signed up for, this counts in all aspects of life (obviously unless you have legitimate reason to not, such as injury).
How is having an opinion that differs from yours "making drama"? If you don't like the opinion then point out why it is wrong don't just use ad-hominem tactics and label me as some "esports drama maker" or something.
And MVP did the right thing but honoring his contract/sign up with gamescon/IEM. And none of us knows how they communicated with GOM. It is quite possible that when GOM released the schedule, IM already told them about the possible conflict if MVP got knocked down into the LB and GOM was ok with them trying to play and get through the WB.
All we know is that they forfeited because of scheduling conflict. Not sure why some people are calling MVP unprofessional and such without any more info. I mean if GOM came out and said that MVP committed to play in the LB and pulled out last minute, then, I would understand.
I don't understand this. At all. The winner at IEM only gets $6.5k. If we assume they will get top 8 every time and from there have a 20-25% chance of winning it all it will leave them with an equity of around $3-4k (which is a big overestimation, in reality it's lower with variance etc).
Sure, they were in LB R1 but WCS has a sick prize pool if you combine Korea, Asia and World championship tournaments. It makes no sense economically for them if they don't get paid for attending IEM other than trip and expenses (on top of the prize money).
On August 15 2012 22:03 Sorkoas wrote: I don't understand this. At all. The winner at IEM only gets $6.5k. If we assume they will get top 8 every time and from there have a 20-25% chance of winning it all it will leave them with an equity of around $3-4k (which is a big overestimation, in reality it's lower with variance etc).
Sure, they were in LB R1 but WCS has a sick prize pool if you combine Korea, Asia and World championship tournaments. It makes no sense economically for them if they don't get paid for attending IEM other than trip and expenses (on top of the prize money).
It was never about the money. LGIM had sponsor commitment at gamescon and MC probably as well since SK is an Euro team. Their commitment was likely before the Exact WCS schedule was out. And if they were in the WB, they could have done it, but since they got knocked down to LB, they had a conflict and thus forfeited.
Lol @ people who care about this. Honestly find something worthwhile to post about. Or better yet go play Starcraft. No one cares that two players forfeited their LR1 spots in one tourney. This bound to happen at least once a year with all the different tourneys going on around the world.
On August 15 2012 00:56 RUFinalBoss wrote: hmm WCS korea is a total flop
#useless comment they was in "LOOSER" bracket and have other tournaments, its not like winner bracket semi forfeit, they just not see their chances high enough
On August 15 2012 21:34 thegreatpiata wrote: Seems perfectly reasonable to me. WCS feels kind of lacklustre anyways. More like a bunch of exhibition matches than an actual tournament.
well wcs is the best format ever done for sc2 and i hope they continue, perhaps justr korea have worst quali
forfeiting a LB r1 match seems pretty reasonable from the money and PR perspective. its too risky to play the whole LB, there are so many good players there, whilst the chance of getting some price money at IEM is reasonable high. sure there is more money in the wcs, but the chance of losing a bo3 in LB is not neglectable.
On August 15 2012 00:56 RUFinalBoss wrote: hmm WCS korea is a total flop
WCS has been a total flop in general for the last couple of years. They are actually getting worse and worse with each year.
Quite surprising considering that this is the FIRST year where we have a World Championship Series sponsored by Blizzard.
I assume you are talking about WCG?
On topic: Sad to see, but there is no one at fault here. They knew they would have to play IEM at Gamescon, but the WCS schedule doesn't really have any leeway in it either. I wish they could play in both, but frankly conflicts like this have to happen. No one can play every single tournament, there simply isn't enough time.
Let's face it the Korean WCS just didn't have the same caliber of players as GSL. A bunch of amateurs made it to the later rounds, along with new Kespa players. And the format itself just doesn't lend itself to people caring about it.
On August 15 2012 00:56 RUFinalBoss wrote: hmm WCS korea is a total flop
Lol, some guys really love using big words.
OnT:This is unfortunate. The big names in korean SC2 scene is dropping out of a very prestigeus tournament when the some of the BW pros are in an all eyes are on this tournament. Hope this doesn't affect the view koreans have on SC2 in a negative way.
On August 15 2012 23:49 orbs wrote: that's some nice elephant dodging.
If the elephants are so good they should get into GSL...
Elephants have contracts with their current sponsors I don't think they like giving up their salary just because gsl is the "official" sc2 tourney in town . Wait till proleague makes the full transition and we will soon compare which league will have the better quality among the two.
On August 15 2012 23:49 orbs wrote: that's some nice elephant dodging.
If the elephants are so good they should get into GSL...
Yea, they should. I hear they run open qualifiers for that every 2 months or so?
This is just a mocking from your part while playing the "they just play for 2 months card" but some people like effort have been in korean GM for a very long time... don't get me wrong I don't have anything with the kespa players...but every bw fan is just throwing shit left and right without certain proof...
On August 15 2012 23:49 orbs wrote: that's some nice elephant dodging.
If the elephants are so good they should get into GSL...
Yea, they should. I hear they run open qualifiers for that every 2 months or so?
This is just a mocking from your part while playing the "they just play for 2 months card" but some people like effort have been in korean GM for a very long time... don't get me wrong I don't have anything with the kespa players...but every bw fan is just throwing shit left and right without certain proof...
No, this is me saying that there haven't been any GSL qualifiers since KeSPA players started playing SC2 officially. Its a bit hard getting into something when there hasn't been a way to qualify to it.
WCS is the best way for us to measure the current skill of the KeSPA players vs the GSL players.
On August 15 2012 01:03 Champloo wrote: I don't understand why they drag out the Korean WCS that much anyway. All the other WCSs were played during one weekend and this should've been too.
Follow this rule, always: If there is no reasonable reason, the reason is money.
On August 15 2012 00:56 RUFinalBoss wrote: hmm WCS korea is a total flop
If anything it's been the best tournament I've seen yet in sc2. The kespa players are showing such powerful play. Both Effort and Soulkey played z v zs that weren't boring as hell, really quite intense actually.
On August 15 2012 00:56 RUFinalBoss wrote: hmm WCS korea is a total flop
If anything it's been the best tournament I've seen yet in sc2. The kespa players are showing such powerful play. Both Effort and Soulkey played z v zs that weren't boring as hell, really quite intense actually.
Korean ZvZ is always awesome. Although nothing beats Freakys games or that DRG - Effort game 3.
On August 15 2012 00:56 RUFinalBoss wrote: hmm WCS korea is a total flop
If anything it's been the best tournament I've seen yet in sc2. The kespa players are showing such powerful play. Both Effort and Soulkey played z v zs that weren't boring as hell, really quite intense actually.
Korean ZvZ is always awesome. Although nothing beats Freakys games or that DRG - Effort game 3.
Well the IEM was planned for months if not for a year, having WCS matches in the same days is like asking for it. I was thinking to go watch the WCS final live (since i wanted to visit china anyway), but this made me cancel that idea, with two of my favourite players dropping out of it for a good reason. I'll probably just go to dreamhack winter and go to visit china next spring/summer. It's sad that blizzard is unable to properly coordinate with other tournament organizers.
They should penalize them for leaving. Fine them. I paid money under the assumption that I would watch X amount of games. Now that they forfeit, I get to watch less games for the same amount of $$.
On August 16 2012 05:02 hpTheGreat wrote: They should penalize them for leaving. Fine them. I paid money under the assumption that I would watch X amount of games. Now that they forfeit, I get to watch less games for the same amount of $$.
was wcs not just free bonus content avail to premium ticket holders? plus they are going to be free soon. you watched 6 games less at max. if anything you should go complain to blizzard/wcs
the discuss was based on my intel so it's fact was MVP and MC were hanging out and MC goes "hey bro do you want to win this one? Kinda lazy" then MVP said "Well I wanted just to troll it but I'm already bored of my opponents so I'm cool" "well if you don't want to play and neither do I then what should happen?" "How bout we just drop it?" "Like IdrA when he's winning a game? sure!"
On August 16 2012 07:47 Haydin wrote: Shame, but I get it. Thankfully there's still a ton of talent in the WCS bracket. Shouldn't hurt the tournament too too much.
Yeah, I was really looking forward to seeing them play but between all the talent still available and the fact that we can still watch these guys play in many other upcoming tournaments makes me not too upset.
On the flipside though, I can understand some of the paying customers frustrations...at least to a point.
On August 16 2012 14:38 Fionn wrote: MC and Mvp are great, but I'm super hyped for Seed vs. Polt, the two guys who beat those two recently.
Seed v Polt is going to be very good. Also, whoever wins will get one of the WCS Asia spots (or a WCS Global spot if he ends up taking the entire thing).
On August 17 2012 10:33 Shiori wrote: I wonder if they'll regret it should WCS turn out to be really prestigious.
well, they are really highly favored to be top 3 at IEM, which means thousands of dollars in the pocket, in a way shorter period of time. + they are in a foreign event which might look more appealling to them compared to WCS ( they are kind of used to GOM studio :o ) and it gives them (and their sponsors) more exposure
On August 17 2012 09:13 Havik_ wrote: WCS would be a more prestigious tournament I think, but IEM probably has more money.
WCS has more money. But it was already stated many times that for MVP didn't go for the tournament. LG was running a promotional events at Gamescom and MVP had committed to that long before the schedule for WCS was out. As for MC, SK is a foreign team so they probably wanted exposure in foreign events as well. Plus MC did take the IEM World Championship last year for 35K.
On August 17 2012 09:13 Havik_ wrote: WCS would be a more prestigious tournament I think, but IEM probably has more money.
WCS has more money. But it was already stated many times that for MVP didn't go for the tournament. LG was running a promotional events at Gamescom and MVP had committed to that long before the schedule for WCS was out. As for MC, SK is a foreign team so they probably wanted exposure in foreign events as well. Plus MC did take the IEM World Championship last year for 35K.
Yeah the problem is that IEM was long planned, and then WCS suddenly is scheduled for the same days, i hope blizzard learned from this.
On August 16 2012 08:42 amazingoopah wrote: well, that blows... sort of takes the wind out of having WCS as true World Cup of SC2 if two of the biggest Koreans stars aren't going to be there.
Totally agree on this. A final without mvp and mc is just not a real final... Sure if they failed to qualify but the choose to forfeit their spots
Meaning the tournament failed since something else was more important. Thus its no real world cup.
To: MVP, MC From: Blizzard Entertainment RE: Dropping out of Korea WCS
Dearest MVP and MC,
We're so sorry to hear that you decided not to attend the WCS Korea which of course is sponsored by Blizzard. You know, the company that makes SC2. We're additionally sorry to hear you've chosen to attend Gamescon in Germany instead.
We hold no ill will against you for this decision. The fact that all your accounts on Battle.net have been summarily cancelled was an unrelated event. Additionally, you may wish to ask Gamescon for a Heart of the Swarm beta invite since apparently you think their newb tournament is more important then ours.
EPT
LG-IMMvp
SK Gaming_MinChul![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/bMtbS.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/CoUzC.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://starcrafthero.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/dustin_browder_sc2_lead_designer.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.gosugamers.net/general/images/2011/april/ogsmc-2-IMG_0634.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.gosugamers.net/starcraft2/images/news/2011-gsl-day-3-imvp_sad.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Yv1QK.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee133/skyflyfish/015406vodncan8so73eups-1.gif)
