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On August 13 2012 05:07 Lorch wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2012 05:05 Rhaegar_tar wrote:On August 13 2012 05:00 Lorch wrote:
Seriously we are still hyping him for doing well on kr ladder? Yes it's the hardest ladder in the world, no that does not change the fact that it's only ladder and most top koreans use it primarily to offrace...
Also lol at even comparing the random french guy who talks about quiting pro gaming all the time to someone as great as mondragon.
I really hope he stops laddering so much and actually uses the great practice partners tsl and korea can provide him with, I don't think stephanos weakness is playing random bo1, but rather the mindgames going on in a bo5+ series and especially being able to mix up your builds at the right time. Lol at a random TL guy bashing Stephano when the likes of Jaedong, MC, MKP and Polt among others praise him on regular basis. I'm not bashing stephano, I'm stating that what he has achieved isn't nearly as impressive compared to what mondragon has said, especially when he talks about quiting in almost every interview. Besides that, since when is the opinion of pro gamers and indicator for anything, sure stephano is good and it's nice for him, I guess, if pros praise him, but that really doesn't mean much of anything imo.
When Jaedong say that the play that inspires him the most is Stephano's, MC saying that Stephano is top three zerg in the world with DRG and Nestea(multiple GSL champions), MKP and Polt saying that he's a genius...+All the big tourneys he won mean that he's way more relevant than what Mondragon ever was...
And lol at you hating him because he actually thinks about his post-progamer career...
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=) mondragon was at the top foreigner for years though, stephano is only barely top for 1 year now.
that said, he is the best sc2 foreigner to date imo
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STEPHANO!
nothing more to ad....
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if jaedong tweeted my name my life would be complete
also I think stephano is more impressive than mondragon but lets get real it's not fair to compare, they are different scenes and stephano is playing for a living.
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On August 13 2012 05:11 dafunk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2012 05:07 Lorch wrote:On August 13 2012 05:05 Rhaegar_tar wrote:On August 13 2012 05:00 Lorch wrote:
Seriously we are still hyping him for doing well on kr ladder? Yes it's the hardest ladder in the world, no that does not change the fact that it's only ladder and most top koreans use it primarily to offrace...
Also lol at even comparing the random french guy who talks about quiting pro gaming all the time to someone as great as mondragon.
I really hope he stops laddering so much and actually uses the great practice partners tsl and korea can provide him with, I don't think stephanos weakness is playing random bo1, but rather the mindgames going on in a bo5+ series and especially being able to mix up your builds at the right time. Lol at a random TL guy bashing Stephano when the likes of Jaedong, MC, MKP and Polt among others praise him on regular basis. I'm not bashing stephano, I'm stating that what he has achieved isn't nearly as impressive compared to what mondragon has said, especially when he talks about quiting in almost every interview. Besides that, since when is the opinion of pro gamers and indicator for anything, sure stephano is good and it's nice for him, I guess, if pros praise him, but that really doesn't mean much of anything imo. ahah sure. So when the best of the best say you're the best, it doesn't mean anything. Mondragon never won any international tournament with koreans. Stephano won like 4 or 5. Stephano has more achievements than Mondragon. /closed
I can guarantee none of those said Stephano is the best. They think he's good, Jaedong likes his style, but I don't think any of them thinks hes the best. The best foreigner perhaps.
SC2 has so many more tournaments than BW had. SC2 doesn't have the competition that BW had. It simply was not possible for Mondragon to win the way Stephano has.
Had Stephano been playing GSL instead of these foreign tournaments and he wouldn't have any victories either. Had Stephano been playing BW and he'd be just another foreigner unable to make any kind of waves.
My point is not that Stephano is bad, he's great, as can be demonstrated by him doing much better than other foreigners. But his achievements are also a result of him taking part in so many tournaments, and also so many players not taking part in the tournaments. There is really only GSL currently that has consistent level of competition. And that is also why you cannot look at his achievements and be like "lolo Stephano > Mondi". That's just retarded.
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On August 13 2012 05:46 Squeegy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2012 05:11 dafunk wrote:On August 13 2012 05:07 Lorch wrote:On August 13 2012 05:05 Rhaegar_tar wrote:On August 13 2012 05:00 Lorch wrote:
Seriously we are still hyping him for doing well on kr ladder? Yes it's the hardest ladder in the world, no that does not change the fact that it's only ladder and most top koreans use it primarily to offrace...
Also lol at even comparing the random french guy who talks about quiting pro gaming all the time to someone as great as mondragon.
I really hope he stops laddering so much and actually uses the great practice partners tsl and korea can provide him with, I don't think stephanos weakness is playing random bo1, but rather the mindgames going on in a bo5+ series and especially being able to mix up your builds at the right time. Lol at a random TL guy bashing Stephano when the likes of Jaedong, MC, MKP and Polt among others praise him on regular basis. I'm not bashing stephano, I'm stating that what he has achieved isn't nearly as impressive compared to what mondragon has said, especially when he talks about quiting in almost every interview. Besides that, since when is the opinion of pro gamers and indicator for anything, sure stephano is good and it's nice for him, I guess, if pros praise him, but that really doesn't mean much of anything imo. ahah sure. So when the best of the best say you're the best, it doesn't mean anything. Mondragon never won any international tournament with koreans. Stephano won like 4 or 5. Stephano has more achievements than Mondragon. /closed I can guarantee none of those said Stephano is the best. They think he's good, Jaedong likes his style, but I don't think any of them thinks hes the best. The best foreigner perhaps. SC2 has so many more tournaments than BW had. SC2 doesn't have the competition that BW had. It simply was not possible for Mondragon to win the way Stephano has. Had Stephano been playing GSL instead of these foreign tournaments and he wouldn't have any victories either. Had Stephano been playing BW and he'd be just another foreigner unable to make any kind of waves. My point is not that Stephano is bad, he's great, as can be demonstrated by him doing much better than other foreigners. But his achievements are also a result of him taking part in so many tournaments, and also so many players not taking part in the tournaments. There is really only GSL currently that has consistent level of competition. And that is also why you cannot look at his achievements and be like "lolo Stephano > Mondi". That's just retarded.
don't agree! sc2 is as much or more competitive than the bw scene was/is. i think the difference is that bw had history, top players had years of intense training. and your claims he wouldn't succeed in brood war are extremely unfair. with the right training environment and enough time he could succeed just like anyone else could, and mondragon could have too.
remember... koreans trained in pro houses with all their time..
foreigners played as a hobby
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United States9232 Posts
On August 13 2012 05:11 dafunk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2012 05:07 Lorch wrote:On August 13 2012 05:05 Rhaegar_tar wrote:On August 13 2012 05:00 Lorch wrote:
Seriously we are still hyping him for doing well on kr ladder? Yes it's the hardest ladder in the world, no that does not change the fact that it's only ladder and most top koreans use it primarily to offrace...
Also lol at even comparing the random french guy who talks about quiting pro gaming all the time to someone as great as mondragon.
I really hope he stops laddering so much and actually uses the great practice partners tsl and korea can provide him with, I don't think stephanos weakness is playing random bo1, but rather the mindgames going on in a bo5+ series and especially being able to mix up your builds at the right time. Lol at a random TL guy bashing Stephano when the likes of Jaedong, MC, MKP and Polt among others praise him on regular basis. I'm not bashing stephano, I'm stating that what he has achieved isn't nearly as impressive compared to what mondragon has said, especially when he talks about quiting in almost every interview. Besides that, since when is the opinion of pro gamers and indicator for anything, sure stephano is good and it's nice for him, I guess, if pros praise him, but that really doesn't mean much of anything imo. ahah sure. So when the best of the best say you're the best, it doesn't mean anything. Mondragon never won any international tournament with koreans. Stephano won like 4 or 5. Stephano has more achievements than Mondragon. /closed
The gap between Koreans and foreigners was over 25x what it is in SC2.
In SCBW you'd be lucky if ANY foreigner could take a single game off a an A-caliber (NOT S caliber) level player, even if they played them 10x.
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On August 13 2012 04:27 Anta wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2012 04:24 TsGBruzze wrote:
Am i The only one who thinks it's sad that he dosent play in gsl? He will not play GSL - isn't worth to..
It's not worth playing GSL? You sir are quite ignorant, and stephano think the same.
Stephano already said that he wanted to play in GSL, but he would first play in September/November.
If possible, he will join TSL in GSTL during this stay 
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On August 13 2012 05:07 Lorch wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2012 05:05 Rhaegar_tar wrote:On August 13 2012 05:00 Lorch wrote:
Seriously we are still hyping him for doing well on kr ladder? Yes it's the hardest ladder in the world, no that does not change the fact that it's only ladder and most top koreans use it primarily to offrace...
Also lol at even comparing the random french guy who talks about quiting pro gaming all the time to someone as great as mondragon.
I really hope he stops laddering so much and actually uses the great practice partners tsl and korea can provide him with, I don't think stephanos weakness is playing random bo1, but rather the mindgames going on in a bo5+ series and especially being able to mix up your builds at the right time. Lol at a random TL guy bashing Stephano when the likes of Jaedong, MC, MKP and Polt among others praise him on regular basis. I'm not bashing stephano, I'm stating that what he has achieved isn't nearly as impressive compared to what mondragon has said, especially when he talks about quiting in almost every interview. Besides that, since when is the opinion of pro gamers and indicator for anything, sure stephano is good and it's nice for him, I guess, if pros praise him, but that really doesn't mean much of anything imo.
ye kr ladder is complete shit nobody plays seriously on it they only offrace, and of course the opinion of a pro player isn't important, no! YOU are the one with all the knowledge!
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On August 13 2012 05:49 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2012 05:46 Squeegy wrote:On August 13 2012 05:11 dafunk wrote:On August 13 2012 05:07 Lorch wrote:On August 13 2012 05:05 Rhaegar_tar wrote:On August 13 2012 05:00 Lorch wrote:
Seriously we are still hyping him for doing well on kr ladder? Yes it's the hardest ladder in the world, no that does not change the fact that it's only ladder and most top koreans use it primarily to offrace...
Also lol at even comparing the random french guy who talks about quiting pro gaming all the time to someone as great as mondragon.
I really hope he stops laddering so much and actually uses the great practice partners tsl and korea can provide him with, I don't think stephanos weakness is playing random bo1, but rather the mindgames going on in a bo5+ series and especially being able to mix up your builds at the right time. Lol at a random TL guy bashing Stephano when the likes of Jaedong, MC, MKP and Polt among others praise him on regular basis. I'm not bashing stephano, I'm stating that what he has achieved isn't nearly as impressive compared to what mondragon has said, especially when he talks about quiting in almost every interview. Besides that, since when is the opinion of pro gamers and indicator for anything, sure stephano is good and it's nice for him, I guess, if pros praise him, but that really doesn't mean much of anything imo. ahah sure. So when the best of the best say you're the best, it doesn't mean anything. Mondragon never won any international tournament with koreans. Stephano won like 4 or 5. Stephano has more achievements than Mondragon. /closed I can guarantee none of those said Stephano is the best. They think he's good, Jaedong likes his style, but I don't think any of them thinks hes the best. The best foreigner perhaps. SC2 has so many more tournaments than BW had. SC2 doesn't have the competition that BW had. It simply was not possible for Mondragon to win the way Stephano has. Had Stephano been playing GSL instead of these foreign tournaments and he wouldn't have any victories either. Had Stephano been playing BW and he'd be just another foreigner unable to make any kind of waves. My point is not that Stephano is bad, he's great, as can be demonstrated by him doing much better than other foreigners. But his achievements are also a result of him taking part in so many tournaments, and also so many players not taking part in the tournaments. There is really only GSL currently that has consistent level of competition. And that is also why you cannot look at his achievements and be like "lolo Stephano > Mondi". That's just retarded. don't agree! sc2 is as much or more competitive than the bw scene was/is. i think the difference is that bw had history, top players had years of intense training. and your claims he wouldn't succeed in brood war are extremely unfair. with the right training environment and enough time he could succeed just like anyone else could, and mondragon could have too. remember... koreans trained in pro houses with all their free time.. foreigners played as a hobby
I do wonder what makes you think SC2 is as much or more competetive than BW scene was. I am of course talking about the Korean scene. Years of intense training for example is a factor in how competetive a game is: it is not enough that you're talented, but you also need years of intense training. And yes, perhaps they are unfair, but also something that I feel is absurd to disagree with. I don't think everyone can succeed. No matter how much I would do, I would never be able to be a competetive sprinter. In the same way, but to a lesser extent, I don't think Stephano could have been anything special in BW (Korean scene). I don't think Mondragon could have either.
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On August 13 2012 05:50 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2012 05:11 dafunk wrote:On August 13 2012 05:07 Lorch wrote:On August 13 2012 05:05 Rhaegar_tar wrote:On August 13 2012 05:00 Lorch wrote:
Seriously we are still hyping him for doing well on kr ladder? Yes it's the hardest ladder in the world, no that does not change the fact that it's only ladder and most top koreans use it primarily to offrace...
Also lol at even comparing the random french guy who talks about quiting pro gaming all the time to someone as great as mondragon.
I really hope he stops laddering so much and actually uses the great practice partners tsl and korea can provide him with, I don't think stephanos weakness is playing random bo1, but rather the mindgames going on in a bo5+ series and especially being able to mix up your builds at the right time. Lol at a random TL guy bashing Stephano when the likes of Jaedong, MC, MKP and Polt among others praise him on regular basis. I'm not bashing stephano, I'm stating that what he has achieved isn't nearly as impressive compared to what mondragon has said, especially when he talks about quiting in almost every interview. Besides that, since when is the opinion of pro gamers and indicator for anything, sure stephano is good and it's nice for him, I guess, if pros praise him, but that really doesn't mean much of anything imo. ahah sure. So when the best of the best say you're the best, it doesn't mean anything. Mondragon never won any international tournament with koreans. Stephano won like 4 or 5. Stephano has more achievements than Mondragon. /closed The gap between Koreans and foreigners was over 25x what it is in SC2. In SCBW you'd be lucky if ANY foreigner could take a single game off a an A-caliber (NOT S caliber) level player, even if they played them 10x.
Gap was big because they were much worse. It's as simple as that.
It's really funny to even compare foreign BW to todays SC2 accomplishments, just look at your foreign bw heroes and how they are doing in sc2.
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On August 13 2012 06:13 Funkydonky wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2012 05:50 FabledIntegral wrote:On August 13 2012 05:11 dafunk wrote:On August 13 2012 05:07 Lorch wrote:On August 13 2012 05:05 Rhaegar_tar wrote:On August 13 2012 05:00 Lorch wrote:
Seriously we are still hyping him for doing well on kr ladder? Yes it's the hardest ladder in the world, no that does not change the fact that it's only ladder and most top koreans use it primarily to offrace...
Also lol at even comparing the random french guy who talks about quiting pro gaming all the time to someone as great as mondragon.
I really hope he stops laddering so much and actually uses the great practice partners tsl and korea can provide him with, I don't think stephanos weakness is playing random bo1, but rather the mindgames going on in a bo5+ series and especially being able to mix up your builds at the right time. Lol at a random TL guy bashing Stephano when the likes of Jaedong, MC, MKP and Polt among others praise him on regular basis. I'm not bashing stephano, I'm stating that what he has achieved isn't nearly as impressive compared to what mondragon has said, especially when he talks about quiting in almost every interview. Besides that, since when is the opinion of pro gamers and indicator for anything, sure stephano is good and it's nice for him, I guess, if pros praise him, but that really doesn't mean much of anything imo. ahah sure. So when the best of the best say you're the best, it doesn't mean anything. Mondragon never won any international tournament with koreans. Stephano won like 4 or 5. Stephano has more achievements than Mondragon. /closed The gap between Koreans and foreigners was over 25x what it is in SC2. In SCBW you'd be lucky if ANY foreigner could take a single game off a an A-caliber (NOT S caliber) level player, even if they played them 10x. Gap was big because they were much worse. It's as simple as that. It's really funny to even compare foreign BW to todays SC2 accomplishments, just look at your foreign bw heroes and how they are doing in sc2.
Well, a team composed of former foreign BW players is pretty much even with any other foreign team you can compose (if you don't include Stephano). Two of your favourite players thereare previously from foreign BW. I think foreign BW players are doing quite well in fact.
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Also, most good foreigners today come from wc3, obviously, the most talented RTS players outside of korea was formed in that game, either because of how there was a lot more, and global competition that made players outside of Korea take the game more serious.
Or perhabs the game was more appealing . Currently only Moon seems to(afaik) be doing decent in sc2 coming from wc3. Lyn was also pretty good, but he is probably now playing wc3 parttime since he moved to China. Not sure if someone in Korea who is currently good comes from wc3.
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On August 13 2012 06:19 Squeegy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2012 06:13 Funkydonky wrote:On August 13 2012 05:50 FabledIntegral wrote:On August 13 2012 05:11 dafunk wrote:On August 13 2012 05:07 Lorch wrote:On August 13 2012 05:05 Rhaegar_tar wrote:On August 13 2012 05:00 Lorch wrote:
Seriously we are still hyping him for doing well on kr ladder? Yes it's the hardest ladder in the world, no that does not change the fact that it's only ladder and most top koreans use it primarily to offrace...
Also lol at even comparing the random french guy who talks about quiting pro gaming all the time to someone as great as mondragon.
I really hope he stops laddering so much and actually uses the great practice partners tsl and korea can provide him with, I don't think stephanos weakness is playing random bo1, but rather the mindgames going on in a bo5+ series and especially being able to mix up your builds at the right time. Lol at a random TL guy bashing Stephano when the likes of Jaedong, MC, MKP and Polt among others praise him on regular basis. I'm not bashing stephano, I'm stating that what he has achieved isn't nearly as impressive compared to what mondragon has said, especially when he talks about quiting in almost every interview. Besides that, since when is the opinion of pro gamers and indicator for anything, sure stephano is good and it's nice for him, I guess, if pros praise him, but that really doesn't mean much of anything imo. ahah sure. So when the best of the best say you're the best, it doesn't mean anything. Mondragon never won any international tournament with koreans. Stephano won like 4 or 5. Stephano has more achievements than Mondragon. /closed The gap between Koreans and foreigners was over 25x what it is in SC2. In SCBW you'd be lucky if ANY foreigner could take a single game off a an A-caliber (NOT S caliber) level player, even if they played them 10x. Gap was big because they were much worse. It's as simple as that. It's really funny to even compare foreign BW to todays SC2 accomplishments, just look at your foreign bw heroes and how they are doing in sc2. Well, a team composed of former foreign BW players is pretty much even with any other foreign team you can compose (if you don't include Stephano). Two of your favourite players thereare previously from foreign BW. I think foreign BW players are doing quite well in fact.
Ok ill bite.
Thorzain
Naniwa
Nerchio
Scarlet
Sase
Kas
Lucifron
And I just named a few please make a foreign BW team that could even take a map of these gents and ladies. Fact is all the old BW players was amateurs they didn't make a living of BW. Today the new generation of professional starcraft 2 players are in a completely different level simply because most of them are professional.
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Former foreign WC3 players are also doing well: stephano, grubby, naniwa, lucifron, thorzain, sase to name a few.
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On August 13 2012 06:28 Zeborg wrote:
Former foreign WC3 players are also doing well: stephano, grubby, naniwa, lucifron, thorzain, sase to name a few.
Well the different between the former WC3 players and BW players is the WC3 players was professional and was living in other countries and competing at highest level. And I expect its one of the main reason why there switch has become so successfully compared to the foreign BW players
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On August 13 2012 06:26 Cinim wrote:
Also, most good foreigners today come from wc3, obviously, the most talented RTS players outside of korea was formed in that game, either because of how there was a lot more, and global competition that made players outside of Korea take the game more serious.
Or perhabs the game was more appealing . Currently only Moon seems to(afaik) be doing decent in sc2 coming from wc3. Lyn was also pretty good, but he is probably now playing wc3 parttime since he moved to China. Not sure if someone in Korea who is currently good comes from wc3.
Polt came from wc3.
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to Benjamin, Liquidret, Sen, Killer, Mana, White-ra and Strelok.
For sure, they aren't nearly as strong, although you could have easy made a better team(Scarlet? really? lol)
But I'm sure they could take a game 
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I kind of hope Stephano is partly responsible for taking out Naniwa in the first round of code S . It would create so much entertaining drama
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EPT
