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If you have seen my other topic about which ladder maps need to go or if you haven't here you go.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=354126
By now it is clear that people want new maps, but it seems they are light on suggestions and have no idea about the possibilities. The only maps people suggest are GSL maps. I suspect it is because these are the only other maps they have seen. Therefore this thread is designed to introduce SC2 general to a sample of all the maps that are out there. You can also vote if you think it has ladder potential.
There will be three distinct categories of maps. Past Map of the Month winners, ESV maps, and other maps by ESV members that don't have the ESV tag. Maps that have the ESV tag have generally gone through a fair amount of testing. Some more than others. I suggest you check out their Korean weekly and Grand Prix II to see the maps in action. Other maps by ESV members have potential in my mind because of their pedigree but have not received as much testing as official ESV maps. Finally Map of the Month contest winners have been vetted by some of the best mapmakers in the community and been voted the best for their respective month. The amount of testing on them is unknown.
Also any ESV member that wants to correct me about the things I said about your organization feel free.
To the maps.
MOTM winners
Dark Shines
+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/IIIEU.jpg) Poll: Dark Shines. Ladder Potential?No (107) 70% Yes (45) 30% 152 total votes Your vote: Dark Shines. Ladder Potential? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
Silver Sands
+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/bUsRM.jpg) Poll: Silver Sands. Ladder Potential?Yes (110) 60% No (72) 40% 182 total votes Your vote: Silver Sands. Ladder Potential? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
Doomsday
+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/mSKjn.jpg) Poll: Doomsday. Ladder Potential?No (93) 62% Yes (57) 38% 150 total votes Your vote: Doomsday. Ladder Potential? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
Peaks of Alamar
+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/onLze.jpg) Poll: Peaks of Alamar. Ladder Potential?Yes (85) 54% No (71) 46% 156 total votes Your vote: Peaks of Alamar. Ladder Potential? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
Firestorm
+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/rmmuG.jpg) Poll: Firestorm. Ladder Potential?No (105) 79% Yes (28) 21% 133 total votes Your vote: Firestorm. Ladder Potential? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
Dodongo
+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/iHCFQ.jpg) Poll: Dodongo. Ladder Potential?No (89) 77% Yes (27) 23% 116 total votes Your vote: Dodongo. Ladder Potential? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
Odin
+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/3Bly3l.jpg) Poll: Odin. Ladder Potential?Yes (93) 60% No (61) 40% 154 total votes Your vote: Odin. Ladder Potential? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
The Grid
+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/fcDZrl.jpg) Poll: The Grid. Ladder Potential?Yes (117) 76% No (36) 24% 153 total votes Your vote: The Grid. Ladder Potential? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
Rusty Cage
+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/6lTMX.jpg) Poll: Rusty Cage. Ladder Potential?No (86) 70% Yes (36) 30% 122 total votes Your vote: Rusty Cage. Ladder Potential? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
Titanis
+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/q91W4.jpg) Poll: Titanis. Ladder Potential?No (63) 53% Yes (55) 47% 118 total votes Your vote: Titanis. Ladder Potential? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
ESV maps
Khaydaria
+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/o7Zuy.jpg) Poll: Khaydaria. Ladder Potential?Yes (111) 73% No (42) 27% 153 total votes Your vote: Khaydaria. Ladder Potential? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
Abode
+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/4cX0D.jpg) Poll: Abod. Ladder Potential?No (72) 64% Yes (40) 36% 112 total votes Your vote: Abod. Ladder Potential? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
Serpent Sands
+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/vSZqx.jpg) Poll: Serpent Sands. Ladder Potential?No (71) 63% Yes (42) 37% 113 total votes Your vote: Serpent Sands. Ladder Potential? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
Deception
+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/6e90C.jpg) Poll: Deception. Ladder Potential?No (74) 73% Yes (28) 27% 102 total votes Your vote: Deception. Ladder Potential? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
Dragons of Eden
+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/DPiPW.jpg) Poll: Dragons of Eden. Ladder Potential?No (66) 54% Yes (57) 46% 123 total votes Your vote: Dragons of Eden. Ladder Potential? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
Spring
+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Qvivq.jpg) Poll: Spring. Ladder Potential?Yes (99) 76% No (32) 24% 131 total votes Your vote: Spring. Ladder Potential? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
Muspelheim
+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Azb7O.jpg) Poll: Muspelheim. Ladder Potential?Yes (96) 74% No (33) 26% 129 total votes Your vote: Muspelheim. Ladder Potential? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
Afterglow
+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/x30hN.jpg) Poll: Afterglow. Ladder Potential?Yes (59) 60% No (40) 40% 99 total votes Your vote: Afterglow. Ladder Potential? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
Vicious
+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/iWQzh.jpg) Poll: Vicious. Ladder Potential?No (58) 58% Yes (42) 42% 100 total votes Your vote: Vicious. Ladder Potential? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
Tanzanite
+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/SYtyh.jpg) Poll: Tanzanite. Ladder Potential?Yes (72) 73% No (26) 27% 98 total votes Your vote: Tanzanite. Ladder Potential? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
Discord
+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/hIXGd.jpg) Poll: Discord. Ladder Potential?No (52) 64% Yes (29) 36% 81 total votes Your vote: Discord. Ladder Potential? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
Frigid Pass
+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/lEUc5.jpg) Poll: Frigid Pass. Ladder Potential?Yes (83) 70% No (36) 30% 119 total votes Your vote: Frigid Pass. Ladder Potential? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
Sidewinder
+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/uf6cW.jpg) Poll: Sidewinder. Ladder Potential?No (47) 53% Yes (41) 47% 88 total votes Your vote: Sidewinder. Ladder Potential? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
Helios
+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Z3KLT.jpg) Poll: Helios. Ladder Potential?No (46) 57% Yes (34) 43% 80 total votes Your vote: Helios. Ladder Potential? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
Avalon
+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ffU0R.jpg) Poll: Avalon. Ladder Potential?No (70) 83% Yes (14) 17% 84 total votes Your vote: Avalon. Ladder Potential? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
Golden Valley
+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ekraM.jpg) Poll: Golden Valley. Ladder Potential?No (48) 55% Yes (39) 45% 87 total votes Your vote: Golden Valley. Ladder Potential? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
Other maps by ESV members
Omnivium
+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/y13Ex.jpg) Poll: Omnivium. Ladder Potential?Yes (62) 59% No (43) 41% 105 total votes Your vote: Omnivium. Ladder Potential? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
Cherno
+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/WEl7v.jpg) Poll: Cherno. Ladder Potential?No (60) 65% Yes (32) 35% 92 total votes Your vote: Cherno. Ladder Potential? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
Istan
+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/3GEuz.jpg) Poll: Istan. Ladder Potential?No (70) 83% Yes (14) 17% 84 total votes Your vote: Istan. Ladder Potential? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
This is not an exhaustive list. Merely a sample. The point here is that there is a vast cornucopia of maps that Blizzard is ignoring and the result is that you have maps like Tal'Darim Altar and Shakuras Plateau that have been in the pool since season 1 and Condemned Ridge being added in.
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I haven't seen some of these maps but they are basically all really neat looking. The ESV Dragons of Eden is actually the coolest looking map I think I have ever seen. I don't really know which of these maps have ladder potential, but Blizzard is almost certainly not going to do anything about it regardless. More maps like Condemned Ridge...
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I wish Blizzard was more aggressive with changing the map pool. We've had the same maps for ages. Alot of them are outdated and very boring like Shakuras.
EDIT: Dear Blizzard please add Frigid Pass.
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Do you think ESV maps which are also MotM winners should be put into both categories? It sort of feels like you're downplaying those maps by not putting them in the MotM category.
I think it is more helpful overall to have new maps put in ladder, because then the tournaments will also use them. That's preferable to putting tournament maps into ladder, because they won't go anywhere from there and it won't let brand new maps in. Generally I think we need to rotate maps a bit more quickly.
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That is why it says ladder potential. Just gauging whether the public is amenable to these maps. This is not about which specific maps need to get in. The point here is to show people that there are other options out there and whether the public likes the idea of adding them in. Public opinion matters. History has shown that Blizzard will only act on this when the general SC2 community wants it.
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I think the ESV tag is more prestigious. I was trying to keep it as simple as possible.
On July 20 2012 05:52 Gfire wrote:
Do you think ESV maps which are also MotM winners should be put into both categories? It sort of feels like you're downplaying those maps by not putting them in the MotM category.
I think it is more helpful overall to have new maps put in ladder, because then the tournaments will also use them. That's preferable to putting tournament maps into ladder, because they won't go anywhere from there and it won't let brand new maps in. Generally I think we need to rotate maps a bit more quickly.
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On July 20 2012 05:52 Gfire wrote:
Do you think ESV maps which are also MotM winners should be put into both categories? It sort of feels like you're downplaying those maps by not putting them in the MotM category.
I think it is more helpful overall to have new maps put in ladder, because then the tournaments will also use them. That's preferable to putting tournament maps into ladder, because they won't go anywhere from there and it won't let brand new maps in. Generally I think we need to rotate maps a bit more quickly.
When I looked at that list I put viewed the ESV maps with higher regard. I know ESV map makers and since Cloud Kingdom and Ohana and other ESV maps have gotten into the spotlight, I think a lot of people probably view them as better map makers then other people in the MotM because they know who they are.
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There are some good maps in there, but others feel like a regression to old maps that were hated by the community (Odin similar to Scrap Station). Some other maps suffer from near impossible to take 4ths or difficult 3rds. Glad to see not one third blocked by rocks in the sample though.
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On July 20 2012 06:01 envisioN . wrote:
There are some good maps in there, but others feel like a regression to old maps that were hated by the community (Odin similar to Scrap Station). Some other maps suffer from near impossible to take 4ths or difficult 3rds. Glad to see not one third blocked by rocks in the sample though.
There were a lot of reasons why Scrap Station was a bad map, and I think it is fair to say that the proximity to your opponent's base by air was the not the worst problem. It still might have been a bit too short between the bases, but I think that a map like that could still work.
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Frigid pass looks pretty sick.
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Just wanna say I appreciate your efforts Marcus. This may not do anything in the end, but at least you're trying to put this stuff out there in hopes for the best. Kudos to you friend!
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Just my opinion:
Condemned, TDA, and Shak Plat out, Antiga no gold cross only. Add in Frigid Pass, Whirlwind, and ADD BACK IN NERAZIM CRYPT that map was amazingly good wtf.
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Frigid Pass should replace TalDarim. That Tal is just pure crap in today's metagame.
EDIT: Dragons of Eden looks pretty sweet too.
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Frigid Pass and Kaydaria are cool.
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On July 20 2012 06:20 IronManSC wrote:
Just wanna say I appreciate your efforts Marcus. This may not do anything in the end, but at least you're trying to put this stuff out there in hopes for the best. Kudos to you friend!
Have you ever heard of the butterfly effect?
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On July 20 2012 07:09 MarcusRife wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2012 06:20 IronManSC wrote:
Just wanna say I appreciate your efforts Marcus. This may not do anything in the end, but at least you're trying to put this stuff out there in hopes for the best. Kudos to you friend! Have you ever heard of the butterfly effect?
That thing you feel in your stomach?
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A lot of these maps have really awkward third, they seem akin to maps from much earlier seasons. A fine natural expansion, but after that your screwed. Most of the maps I see look pretty, but wouldn't do very well when thrown into the ladder. I just wish that a group of people could get together to test out these maps. See what works and what doesn't.
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i feel like everyone just voted random yes/no, many of these maps are really good z_z
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On July 20 2012 07:11 Gfire wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2012 07:09 MarcusRife wrote:On July 20 2012 06:20 IronManSC wrote:
Just wanna say I appreciate your efforts Marcus. This may not do anything in the end, but at least you're trying to put this stuff out there in hopes for the best. Kudos to you friend! Have you ever heard of the butterfly effect? That thing you feel in your stomach?
I am not sure whether you are kidding but no. It comes from chaos theory. It is a phenomenon where small perturbations within a system can lead to massive changes for the system as a whole. The analogy often used to explain it is if a butterfly flaps its wings in Asia this lead to minute changes in wind patterns which then lead to larger changes and these in turn into even larger changes and then the result is a hurricane in Florida.
Hence the butterfly effect. Viral marketing takes some inspiration from it in my opinion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterfly_effect
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EPT
