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I was introduced to Dan Chou through Playhem quite some time ago, but never really took the time to chat with him because (well, I don’t know a better way to put this) he provides an incredible cast without ever really drawing attention to himself. As you will find out later in this interview, Dan is one of THE most devout, selfless individuals in the eSports realm. He’s proven faith in his work, he puts forth a plethora of effort to grow the awareness of what the community has to offer, and he does this all without demand for anything in return. Even though he is no longer regularly casting for Playhem because of an amazing opportunity with NASL, on the popular request of the Playhem fans, I now present to you: Frodan
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Dan “Frodan” Chou, originally spawned 21 years ago from the upper right corner of the United States: East Brunswick, NJ, and moved across the map to southern California as a youth. He currently resides in the Los Angeles area, and is living his dream commentating StarCraft2, on-location, at the NASL Studio just outside of L.A.
BrightSide: So, Dan, how long have you been gaming, and how did you get into StarCraft?
Frodan: Since the day I was born. I probably came out of the womb with the prototype of a Gameboy or something. Ever since I was young, I just loved playing board games, puzzle games, anything I could get my hands on. My parents always made fun of me because I was THE hardest baby ever to entertain because – you know like the casual babies, er, the babies who like the casual play – like when you do the “Ooh where did I go?” and you cover your eyes so they can't see you kind of thing – they giggle – I wasn't like that. If you did that to me, I wouldn't be amused at all. But then, if you gave me a little 4x4 puzzle or something like that, I'd be giggling. For a long time, I've just been gaming. Even dating back to Nintendo and Sega Genesis – the original Nintendo – those kinds of [games], I was playing for a super long time.
How I got introduced to StarCraft, was through my neighbor. I remember he was talking about this amazing Broodwar game. I was like 8 years old. This was 1998, I remember I would always call him - and we're talking about my neighbor who's like 7 years older than me – he's like 15 – and I'm just like “Hey man, can I come play Staaaar Craaft? Can I please play StarCraft?” And he's like “Sure dude,” and lets me in and makes my account. I remember my first account was 'DanManC' - like the stupidest name ever, and I was just this 8 year old. I'd be going into every 3v3 game and flaming everyone. I was just THAT kid and was like “You guys suck!” but I had like, one marine at 20 minutes. I was one of those kids that if you saw nowadays, you'd want to strangle me -
BrightSide: Did you just build buildings?
Frodan: Not even - I'd sit there typing. You know how I got fast at typing? From StarCraft – because I wanted to communicate my efforts faster of how everyone's a noob – I was too busy typing, and letting people know how bad they are –[too busy] to macro – or micro – I'd build like 2 cannons and start flaming causing our entire team to die.
BrightSide: What other games did you like as a kid, and growing up?
Frodan: I think my favorite game growing up used to be this Nintendo game called Track and Field. All it was, was an Olympic event of track and field – like the long jump or the 100 meter sprint and the high jump – all of these different events, but all you could do was spam ABABABAB. It was all about who could press it faster, so I remember me and my friend used to come up with the most ludicrous theories ever- about what would work and what wouldn't work. Like, if you stand up, you automatically could free up the blood flow so that you could press AB faster like “no dude, I swear if you use one finger, your index finger on your right hand and your middle finger from your left hand you're able to really correlate the button push and coordinate effectively.” We had all these stupid strategies we'd come up with, and whenever I think about it I just laugh because of how stupid I was to think that. That was my favorite…spent so many hours playing that silly game, trying to beat our own records at every event. That was like a really fun memory I had of growing up.
BrightSide: Haha, have you ever played with QWOP?
Frodan: YES! QWOP is a great game! I got about 3 meters, and that's only because I do lunges- I don't actually run. (laughs) That game is so difficult! That should be at MLG Pro circuit 2012!
BrightSide: What made you decide to cast?
Frodan: The first organization I was ever working with was the Collegiate Star League, CSL, it's an organization for college students to gather together and compete in whatever game they play. Originally, I played StarCraft 2 because I wanted to play. My friend always told me about this site called Team Liquid. So, I started looking up all these things, and I was like, “Oh okay– looks like everyone has streams on.”
I remember specifically for one practice, Duran Parsi, he's also called Xeris, who works for NASL, and is manager of Team LighT - He was also the coordinator for our school, and needed someone to stream our practices. Everyone plays on a laptop because they're 'poor' students so I offered to do it. At the time Xeris was traveling across the country so he couldn’t be there. During the sessions, I'd just have people come on the Skype call, and we'd just talk about the game. Some people noticed, and said, “I think you should try going into casting,” and I didn't even know what casting was– I was stoked, “Am I going to be an actor? Oh my God, am I going to be famous? Hollywood?” And they replied, “No no no... You should go into commentating.”
So I just went for it! One person from a clan actually was watching, and he said, “Hey, I thought that was pretty good for the first time you ever casted. You have a lot of potential– I want to introduce you to my clan leader,” and that's how, at the time, it was the SAGA clan [I casted for]. After that it was just opportunity after opportunity- just slowly working hard. I always will have a piece for the clan because they are the ones who really believed in me from the first place. I won't ever forget it.
BrightSide: What are you doing when you're NOT casting or playing?
Frodan: That's a good question. I used to do lots of things, like for example I really love working out, but not necessarily directly like 'hit it to the gym and pump iron' though – It's more like I love being active. I used to really love doing a bunch of things but I had to give it up for casting. Like, I used to be on the ultimate frisbee team at the school, but I couldn't really do that after a while because casting hours and conditioning hours. I love doing gymnastics, but I can't do that either because (laughs) of casting. I love going out and doing outdoorsy stuff like camping and just like, stuff that makes you feel like you're a man. We'd build our own fires, pitch our own tents – I love doing all those kinds of things, but casting and playing are the primary passions right now.
I love music too! I play several instruments. Whenever I'm really stressed out, I like to bust out my guitar and write a song about Tim, (Robin). Hah, and then I sing it for him and then he gets all weirded out. Something that never happened on Playhem…every week, I was supposed to come to the cast with a new song and play it for everyone on stream during one of our game breaks. Then we were going to call it “Robin Radio”. It was going to be like this huge thing, but for some reason it just never happened, because as everyone knows, Robin is one of the most humble guys ever, and he hates being put on the spot in over-exuberant ways. He told me not to, and I was like “okay fine”.
BrightSide: Ultimately, what are your personal goals in the eSports realm?
Frodan: Eventually, I want to be able to cast on a world stage. Not necessarily like GSL or something. That would be REALLY awesome, and that's one of the unattainables that I don't think I'll ever be able to do, but I’d still love to. I want to be able to communicate on a global level. One day, I want to be able to have my own platform, to be able to speak about what eSports means to me. Specifically, I would like to go on a stage with people like Marcus (DjWHEAT) and Sean (Day[9]) and just have an open inspirational forum like TED Talks. Just give me 5-10 minutes to explain why video games, eSports, mean so much to our generation today, and be able to have like ten million people watch and listen. That's my biggest dream! Everything about eSports really speaks to our generation, and that's as much as I can say without starting a huge 10 minute rant on why I love eSports.
BrightSide: Go for it.
Frodan: Okay, here’s the idea: There's an underlying phenomenon in eSports that seems to be able to break a lot of normal social boundaries that have completely plagued society, like our entire culture, today. The biggest thing is fear and paranoia. Everything in America is about fear. News is about warning you of disasters, about warning you of a murder or rapist in your neighborhood, or there's things letting you know the economy is awful, or this movie is bad. Everything is about bad news, and there's no real ability for people to relax. I think that one thing that's so cool about video games and gamers in general is that they just push that all aside. They share like, 'hey, I'm from this place' or 'hey you wanna meet up and play a couple games together?' 'Sure, here's my information...' They just- they talk to strangers.
People kind of laugh at online dating, right? They look at e-Harmony, and they look at all these things, and are like 'wow that's pathetic' but gamers do the exact same thing. We have no id[ea]- I've never met - I've never physically touched Tim, Robin, in my life, and I think I'm going to move in with him in a couple months. Which is absurd, if I told any person who does not have any touch with eSports whatsoever, they would think I'm clinically insane. And there's just an underlying power about that- why is it? And I feel like a couple things really speak to it. For one, it's the idea that we accomplish things together. A lot of people today in capitalism- people are all about their own self improvement. Every workshop, nowadays, is about how YOU can improve YOUR resume, or YOU can separate YOURself from the competition, but eSports is what WE can do. What can OUR team do? What can EG, TL etc... put on a tournament or show for other people to see so that we can prove our own dominance and our own competitiveness, and that's kind of like what sports does, but more specifically is with what eSports does, is- it takes that need for constant activity, and is able to put it into hobby perspective. A lot of people are like, “Well, I love watching eSports but I can't identify with it because I can't always play it, but eSports can be as simple as going to your living room, or as simple as going to your bedroom, or as simple as a Tuesday night with your loved ones, like with your wife or your girlfriend, or kids– your best friend, your roommates- and I think that there's such a strong power in the fact that there's so many things trying to dis-unify us by everyone with lots of suspicion and distrust and how “you can't trust anyone.”
I've seen people at different events that give out their credit card because someone couldn't afford a lunch, and they're like, “Hey man, just go ahead- buy yourself lunch”, and the guy's like “sure thanks,” and came back as if nothing ever happened. That doesn't happen—that's not supposed to happen in 21st Century America- and there's just...a benevolence. There's just an overwhelming…I can't even begin to describe it, other than the fact that: Video games break cultural boundaries that are set today.
That's the “short” version. I could go into long details and explain, but that's the whole scope of why I believe in our cause, and why I hope it succeeds, and why people should really value people who put in hard work and dedication over talent– and that's why people like DjWHEAT – and Day[9]- I mean- Sean puts in SO much work to his dailies. It's absolutely insane– the amount of content- like TotalBiscuit– people might not like their casting, and this and that, but the idea is: These guys are the ones who make it happen. They are the spokesmen for the community, and I think we should let them [be].
BrightSide: What's your opinion on the people who don't just 'let them be'– The people who hate on them?
Frodan: I think it's okay – no wait, I actually think it's good. People need to learn that what people say is only supposed to help you. If people legitimately hate on you- like when they wish you were dead or you need to kill yourself, that's just hate. There's hate everywhere– no matter where you go. If you go to a workplace there's going to be someone who back-stabs you, someone who badmouths you, there's always going to be hate wherever you go. That's unavoidable.
In terms of the people who try to discourage you and say you should quit or you shouldn't do this– those kinds of things, only the best will refine. Gold becomes refined under fire. Only through constant re-evaluation, are you going to be able to perfect your casting. So, I welcome criticism. People know what they want, they just won't be willing to tell you sometimes because they're afraid you won't receive it well. I think the biggest thing is that casters are just so naturally defensive, because they feel like if they don't get everyone to like them, it'll be the end of their career. What kind of person would you be if you only got compliments? Eventually, you'd just become really egotistical and self-centered, and that's exactly the kind of people we don't want being our personalities.
I think I've never gotten like a real hate comment when I've casted a live event. 99.9% of the people come up to me, and they only want to say good things because if they don't want to say anything good to you, they won't say it to your face. But, one person actually mustered up the courage to do so, and said, “Hey look, I think you cast a little bit too biased, and I just really didn't appreciate you calling one of my players unprepared for this.” And I'm replied, “Okay, you know, I shouldn't use that word. Help me because I obviously don't understand the mentality of your player.” When I said that, it really spoke a lot to him because [I actually took his feedback]. A lot of casters are just like, “Oh no, I didn't mean that,” and just kind of invalidate the person's feelings as if, “You're the person who misheard ME.” There are more opportunities to shine if someone comes up to me and gives me constructive feedback.
Also I want to add that I think the new waves of casters need to really understand that everyone has to go through trials and pay their dues. It's very rare that a caster can just come onto the scene out of nowhere without learning the lessons everyone else has.
BrightSide: Do you have a favorite Caster to work with?
Frodan: I really enjoyed casting with CatsPajamas (Kevin Knocke) because he's like a different breed of casters. His job is to make you feel comfortable in a cast. This is actually my mark of a good co-caster. My mark of a good co-caster is a person who can make their co-caster seem like a star.
Whomever I'm casting with, whether it be Kibbelz or Katu, Psylence, Lyrlian, whoever's from Playhem- or even NASL with Gretorp or whoever else I'm casting with: if they look great and are shining, then I look great too. Because we're a team and your team is only as good as your weak link right? Many casters can't wait to get in their word, but I try to set it up so that when you listen to what they say, you're like, “Oh my God, that caster knows what he's talking about!”
BrightSide: I don't remember who it was, but someone said that about you.
Frodan: That’s really nice of him to say. That's probably the greatest compliment someone could ever give me in casting!
BrightSide: So, is there any one person you would say is your biggest influence and/or role-model?
Frodan: It's got to be my sister. My sister has taught me so much about maturity and responsibility because she's seven years older than me, so she's gone through almost everything I have. In fact, she did the exact same thing – She left college early to pursue a dream job, and that's exactly what I'm doing right now. There was a time when everyone was telling me to stop casting, but she showed me support. She was the first person I called when I got the NASL opportunity. My sister is one of THE most mature and wise people I know. She sees things so differently. She's taught me things like: Things you say and don't say, when to say it, and who to say it to—intangible skills that so many people don't get. My sister is absolutely brilliant.
BrightSide: How about in the eSports community(ies)? Anyone you really look up to here?
Frodan: Marcus (DjWHEAT), Zach (Diggity)- These two guys are probably the biggest role models because they have families, and eSports to them is much bigger than just a game. It's much bigger than just an event and it's much bigger than a single given day. Everyone's always excited for that one moment when they get recognition, where they get achievement, and they get that success. [These guys] see eSports as an entire culture in which people need to sustain.
One thing that's really cool– If you go to a country like Spain, in Madrid, there's people who go out in the street every night and just dance/hang out along the sidewalks. That's what I want eSports to be. Every night we go out and have the opportunity to partake in eSports– it's just something that you do. It's not just like an event where you're like “I'm in eSports mode. This weekend, I'm just going to go nerd out.” I want it so that every given night you say to your buddies, “You know what, let’s watch some Street Fighter 4 or Huk vs IdrA; or I just want to watch some dude speedrun through Super Mario” (which is one of my favorite things to watch right now.)
Just these kinds of things, I want it to be ingrained in our culture. Something that, when people come and look upon us in history, they wouldn't say we were known for our lack of ability to keep up and educate. There's lots of things they say about our generation like we're lazy or silly, and we're so technology dependent- but I want it to be different. The youth in like the 60's and 70's were known to be rebellious, and hippies and stuff. I want us– this decade, next decade, to really define the eSports generation, and these guys (DJWheat/Diggity) are my role models because they really believe in that.
We have some of THE most qualified people I've ever met– We have actual doctors. People who have PhDs, MDs, scientists, philosophers, psychologists, lawyers– I'm convinced we have some of the biggest and brightest people, and I think we have all the tools to succeed, and it's all about making sure that they all work together, because unfortunately, there's too many people working against each other.
BrightSide: I couldn't agree with that more. How about, do you have a favorite player?
Frodan: Well, first of all, whenever I watch Flash play, it's just– THIS guy: some of the things he does, I just don't understand– like there's very few moments in my life, where I just kind of sit down and think, “How'd that happen?” and legitimately cannot come to a conclusion. Flash is one of those people. He's a spectacle to watch, and just calling him the 'Ultimate Weapon' isn't even an appropriate nickname.
My favorite StarCraft 2 player to watch– It's tough– It's very hard to impress me in StarCraft 2, and I say that because I think the cap for StarCraft 2 is just on the surface of being scratched. What I mean by that is we've seen the ceiling- with bots– if you saw the Automaton2000 micro, which is humanly impossible—that's the ceiling in the most technical sense. I'm waiting for the day where someone shows me absolutely mind-blowing things we've never seen, and I have hope for that. So I'm still kind of looking for my favorite StarCraft 2 player, because every time I kind of put my hope in one person, they end up dropping off.
The amplitude of player stock is outrageous. It wasn't so long ago how Artosis was explaining how the universe was created by a 32 year old Korean Zerg player, but now no one even really pays attention to him as much as DRG and Leenock, who I actually legitimately believe they're better than NesTea right now. Lots of things are changing, nothing's certain, and I won't pledge allegiance to a player, but I like a lot of players who are working hard and dedicated.
I love Geoff “iNcontroL.” I think Geoff Robinson is a good guy. One of my favorite people in eSports.
BrightSide: What Race do you prefer to play?
Frodan: I loooooove Protoss, but I love joking about how overpowered they can be at times.
BrightSide: Are there any match-ups you get really excited about casting over others?
Frodan: PvT at least right now, because PvZ is kind of figured out, it's pretty much: do a timing on Zerg or turtle up, and then Zerg can either punish Protoss, or just go for the standard compositions and it’s either all-in or be passive. In TvZ, I feel really bad because from the way maps are getting bigger and with a lot of nerfs to Terran, I feel like Zergs can deal with everything easily other than early cheeses.
My only complaint about balance in matchups is how some units just feel as if they have completely zero utility – like hydras in ZvT at the moment.
BrightSide: What player matchups would you say you enjoy the most? Like, player vs. player?
Frodan: I generally really like watching MC play because he just executes on a whole ‘nother level. I really like watching Thorzain play as well… I thought MC vs. Thorzain from TSL3 and MC vs. PuMa in NASL Season 1 are still, in my opinion, the most exciting series I've ever watched. You watch these guys go at it, so many times you're like, “This battle should go this way” and then the opposite would happen as if they were breaking the ideas of how the matchup fundamentally works. Really, really cool!
I also really like watching DRG against Terrans– macro Terrans– just because it's amazing to watch him optimize Zerg in a way that people didn’t think they’re capable. I just like watching him break that mould, and just watching- his comebacks are really cool to watch.
BrightSide: You were the first Playhem caster, right? How did you begin casting for Playhem, and what do you most enjoy about it? Also, what was the most difficult part?
Frodan: I was the only Playhem caster for a long time, like about a month and a half– where I did dailies by myself. I casted at least 30 dailies and hundreds of hours by myself before anyone came on. It was non-stop. I used to admin for Playhem too! I used to sit there in the lobby and help people out if they [needed], asking some of the most ridiculous questions ever. It was a dark period in all of our lives. It was cool because back then it was just me, Ryan Belkin (Neeb), Ryan DeSanto, who is actually the founder of Playhem, and Ben, the guy who is currently the Playhem community manager.
A month and a half later, Tumba was brought on in addition to Kaelaris. We eventually Lyrlian, Robin, Kibbelz, but we still didn't have enough people to cover every day– so we got Katu, Nerdswagger, Bonkarooni, Psylence, SCAlaska, Jorosar, Zoia, and Schamtoo. It's been an absolute delight to work with the other people for the past – wow – it's almost been a year.
BrightSide: You and Robin casted together quite a bit for Playhem - How long have you known each other?
Frodan: We've known each other since August of 2011 I believe. No – That's wrong. That's when we started casting together. I've known him since really early 2011, I'm going to go ahead and say January/February.
When he approached me to cast with him, I had no idea who he was. He was just this guy with a lisp, and I was like “oh that's cute – a guy with a lisp who wants to cast” and he was like (does a great Robin Impression) “Hey man hey like, I'm Robin. I'm from the MLG Forums, and I was wondering if you'd be okay to cast with me one day? Just for this mini tournament I'm doing – it's like $50 and no one really cares about it but if you wanna cast– 'cause like, I've heard about you...” so he was basically being this super innocent adorable guy, and I was like “How can I say no?!” I just wanted to pinch his cheeks. So I was like “Sure man!” and I ended up casting a game with him.
After we finished casting he was like “how can I improve?” So I told him he had to learn another race besides Zerg – and it was really fun. Before I got into eSports, I really wanted to be a teacher because I love watching development and growth. Tim's the exact story of that - and that's why he means so much to me, both as a friend, and as a person.
BrightSide: Tell me a bit about your other casting experiences, and how are they most different from what you were used to at Playhem?
Frodan: I remember almost every single live event I've been to has been a tournament that goes to 1am, 2am for one of these huge marathon days. I had a 16 hour cast [the other] weekend at a LAN I went to. When I wasn't doing Playhem stuff, it's because I’d go to a live event and do local Southern California tournaments, and just absolutely go all out for them. They're really fun though because live events are just so different from online ya' know? The energy and dynamic—There's people to talk to and interact with. It's okay to take a break when you're at a live event because you can interact with the people, but if you take a break online, people don't have anything to look at.
MLGs are just different. MLG was the first major live event I've ever been to on that kind of scale. It was just mind blowing. Just watching all the crazy stuff going on, and watching the real emotion of players…it’s like- when I first fell in love with eSports.
BrightSide: Are you able to name all the events you've casted?
Frodan: I've casted for CSL , Craftcup, ESV/Iccup, FFC, KSL, EWM, MLG, NASL, Playhem, SoCal eSports , TL Opens, TwitchTV invitationals, UCSD Winter Gamefest, and more. I've done things like the Dolby Invitational, TteSports, CSN, back when Tumba was doing the ASWCs, as well as Wolf's weekly cups before he went to GSL, Map of the Month, I used to do ESEA with Clan Wars, I think it was called SGL at the time for another league of teams that was going on, and that's as many as I can remember.
BrightSide: Wow, that's a whole lot more than I realized. Looks like you're only going forward. I want to thank you for taking the time to talk to me tonight. I wish you a lot of luck with NASL.
BrightSide: Now, there’s one more thing I always have to ask – I’d just be left to wonder without this question: You mentioned earlier that some of your prior names were stupid – so, where did you get, and finally settle on, “Frodan?”
Frodan: It's a nickname my sister calls me. I'm kind of short…I'm 5'9” ish. She loved directing films and did a parody of Lord of the Rings. Instead of Frodo, she called me Frodan. It's just homage to how my sister is a big part of who I am.
BrightSide: Aw, so nice. Are there any shoutouts you'd like to do before we depart?
Frodan: Thank you so much, Brandi - for everything she does, not only for the Girls of StarCraft, but for the community. And she's always a good voice of reason whenever I get way out of line in my casts.
Tim. Tim Frazier – He's my husband – nah – he's my wife, let's be real – I wear the pants, and he takes them off.
Also I want to really thank Diggity. I told him that he's one of my heroes, but mainly because he's always believed in me. He's the one who pushed to pick me up. I got to where I am through his support and so I really appreciate that.
Also thanks to a couple other people like Xeris and Tumba – Oh and Ben and Neeb for Playhem, and yes, even Luka. I want to thank all those guys.
Cable- you may not know who he is, but he's an eSports organizer who just runs a bunch of tournaments. He's a guy who's wants me to succeed as pushes for me similar to Diggity.
BrightSide: And one last thing – Where can we find you most of the time?
Frodan: Follow my twitter at http://twitter.com/frodan
BrightSide: Thank you so much, Dan, for taking the time to chat, and I wish you all the best!
You can find Frodan on Twitter and Facebook, so please go bless him with your follows, 'likes' and support - because he really is an amazing part of this community!
