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On April 14 2012 07:00 RAW-BERRY wrote:
To everyone here herp derping, and complaining about Blizzard's lazyness, just fucking stop. Seriously. You have don't have the slightest clue as to what it is you're talking about. There's much more to it than putting a hack together and releasing it to the masses as separate software.
Please tell me TWO examples of "what much more" there is. If it's to resuming a ladder game, then yes, there's tons more.
If it's JUST to get the game to be playable for tournament purposes -- WHAT MORE IS THERE? Please tell me, because right now Blizzard looks like a joke to me.
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So, I'll jump into the bandwagon. As someone who knows a bit of coding (well, it's my job in a way after all), and basing myself upon some assumptions that I can consider reasonable :
- Of course Blizzard programmers are able to do it. Even more, they've already given in their libraries most of the functions to do it. The source is only 300 lines of code (for the replay part, not the surrounding stuff, i.e GUI, buttons, etc...) because most of it was already here
- Still, mad props to incredible OP for reverse engineering
- I would say that it is at most a one month patch if there was any will to do it. (Including the very numerous internal playtesters, and a deployment on the PTR)
What to think about it? Well, Blizzard could've implemented it if they wanted to. Pretty quickly too, it wouldn't have strained their resources. I'm not so sure what occupies their day right now. I just hope it's worth it (HotS?)
Edit : Blizzard is probably not lazy. (By the way, I've been at their stand at the GDC '12, I can assure you that even the aspiring programmers were nothing to scoff at, I'd like to see how skilled those who managed to pass the entrance test fare). More likely, they are using their resources in something else than adding minor patches to SC2. Is it a good strategy? I don't know, I code, I don't manage stuff.
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It's just priorities. Someone has to allocate an engineer to work on this for a couple weeks. If that guy makes more money for the company by fixing a problem in the WoW server, they have him doing that instead.
That said, enough people bugging Blizzard about this should eventually get them to move this up the list.
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On April 14 2012 03:18 mmagic wrote:
I'm wondering how does this work in SC2 Starter Edition?
Can started edition players play with any race by using this trick?
I mean they are allowed to only play Human race but with this trick can they play zerg or protoss by swithcing race with the opponent?
No, you have to to recreate the game settings exactly. So if you don't have the correct map or player races it will just bug out and presumably try to tell the Command Center to build Drones.
On April 14 2012 04:17 Gleen wrote:
Just a question, if I download a replay from a pro, setup this program with a friend and set the game time to the end of the game, or let's say, right when one will GG, what will happen?
Does it means we get shared replays viewer? (: I mean, without the viewers feature and high speed...
This program does not ensure that the two clients stay in sync as they are progressing through the replay (only once one of them reaches the resume point), so I believe it wouldn't be any different to just opening up the replay on two separate computers like everyone already does. Plus it does not co-ordinate replay speed changes between the two clients. I think a hypothetical related tool might be able to do these, though.
On April 14 2012 05:45 qwertyindeed wrote:
wait a minuit, if u run it,which player do you spawn as?
I think it's just based on who is player 1 and who is player 2 in the replay and the recreated game. That's what I attempted to copy when testing it, anyway.
On April 14 2012 08:34 tianGO wrote:
Does this work with the starter edition? It'd be great to avoid risking your account.
I think you can play any replay with the Starter edition, so maybe it works.
It works but you're limited to replays with a Terran (or 2 Terrans if you're using 2 starter editions) on one of the maps available to the starter edition (Xel'Naga Caverns, Shattered Temple, and a few custom mode maps) because you need to start an actual game, not just view a replay.
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On April 14 2012 07:20 RoyGBiv_13 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 07:04 Die4Ever wrote:On April 14 2012 07:00 RAW-BERRY wrote:
To everyone here herp derping, and complaining about Blizzard's lazyness, just fucking stop. Seriously. You have don't have the slightest clue as to what it is you're talking about. There's much more to it than putting a hack together and releasing it to the masses as separate software. While I agree with you that it would take much longer to make this a proper and polished feature inside of SC2, I still feel this feature is still a reasonable request from the community. Before it turns into a flame war, I would just like to point out that this and watching shared replays share a bunch of features. I expect the reason we dont have either is not because blizz doesn't want us to have it, but rather because in order to redesign the replay system, they have to re-enter QA, and if they do that, they might as well throw an entire expansion around it  EDIT: furthermore, an alternate feature is for a player to enter into a game that is already running. In general, this is a good idea (for obsing and such).
I 100% agree. There's no reason to go releasing new features with Wings of Liberty when HotS is right around the corner. I have a strong suspicion that we're going to see a lot of features in HotS that the community has been wanting. I just don't like baseless accusations regarding systems people don't have the slightest clue about.
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United States12240 Posts
On April 14 2012 08:54 JackDT wrote:
It's just priorities. Someone has to allocate an engineer to work on this for a couple weeks. If that guy makes more money for the company by fixing a problem in the WoW server, they have him doing that instead.
That said, enough people bugging Blizzard about this should eventually get them to move this up the list.
They're separate teams...
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On April 14 2012 08:52 fezvez wrote:
So, I'll jump into the bandwagon. As someone who knows a bit of coding (well, it's my job in a way after all), and basing myself upon some assumptions that I can consider reasonable :
- Of course Blizzard programmers are able to do it. Even more, they've already given in their libraries most of the functions to do it. The source is only 300 lines of code (for the replay part, not the surrounding stuff, i.e GUI, buttons, etc...) because most of it was already here
- Still, mad props to incredible OP for reverse engineering
- I would say that it is at most a one month patch if there was any will to do it. (Including the very numerous internal playtesters, and a deployment on the PTR)
What to think about it? Well, Blizzard could've implemented it if they wanted to. Pretty quickly too, it wouldn't have strained their resources. I'm not so sure what occupies their day right now. I just hope it's worth it (HotS?)
Edit : Blizzard is probably not lazy. (By the way, I've been at their stand at the GDC '12, I can assure you that even the aspiring programmers were nothing to scoff at, I'd like to see how skilled those who managed to pass the entrance test fare). More likely, they are using their resources in something else than adding minor patches to SC2. Is it a good strategy? I don't know, I code, I don't manage stuff.
Pretty much that. Is it possible? Yes. Is it easy? Looks like it (at least at a low level - design/UI/testing etc. is extra cost).
But add up all the features that the community is screaming for and you've got many man-months worth of effort. It does strain their resources, because you put one guy working on this, then he's not working on what he was doing (HoTs perhaps). It's not like Blizz has some spare programmers just sitting around waiting for stuff like this to pop up, simply because that'd be bad resource management.
You push all this stuff now, then HoTS gets delayed. You put it in the original WoL release, then that gets delayed. That may have been the smarter decision given the community reaction, but then the community bought the game anyway despite these missing features, so one can't blame Blizzard for wanting to cash in some of their chips a little early.
I'm not saying Blizzard should be immune to criticism, but a little perspective could be called for. It''d be nice to have these kind of threads without numerous posts from the Blizzard hate train.
Just remember one thing: Labour ain't free.
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I hear a lot of "this would be easy to do", but you've actually gone and done it. I'm super impressed.
In a world where people feel entitled to complain about things, you are a man with a solution. I hope the argument 'some guy on the internet did it in C++' will help people to compel Blizzard to implement it for real.
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The solution as it stands seems a bit like it will always be a bit buggy. I don't currently have the programming knowledge, but I'd like to suggest an alternate solution to accomplish the ability to resume a game.
Alternate solution: Rather than go directly into a custom game and replay the game, why not go into the map editor and create a map that recreates the state at the exact end-point of the game? Then you could publish and load it up as a custom game and finish playing it out.
This way you aren't injecting anything into the game itself. Less bugs, no hack, less problems, but would require someone else to program it whereas we already have this solution.
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Lets hope blizzard hires this guy so they can get it done as well!
clearly they don't have the people for it atm
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On April 14 2012 09:16 RAW-BERRY wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 07:20 RoyGBiv_13 wrote:On April 14 2012 07:04 Die4Ever wrote:On April 14 2012 07:00 RAW-BERRY wrote:
To everyone here herp derping, and complaining about Blizzard's lazyness, just fucking stop. Seriously. You have don't have the slightest clue as to what it is you're talking about. There's much more to it than putting a hack together and releasing it to the masses as separate software. While I agree with you that it would take much longer to make this a proper and polished feature inside of SC2, I still feel this feature is still a reasonable request from the community. Before it turns into a flame war, I would just like to point out that this and watching shared replays share a bunch of features. I expect the reason we dont have either is not because blizz doesn't want us to have it, but rather because in order to redesign the replay system, they have to re-enter QA, and if they do that, they might as well throw an entire expansion around it EDIT: furthermore, an alternate feature is for a player to enter into a game that is already running. In general, this is a good idea (for obsing and such). I 100% agree. There's no reason to go releasing new features with Wings of Liberty when HotS is right around the corner. I have a strong suspicion that we're going to see a lot of features in HotS that the community has been wanting. I just don't like baseless accusations regarding systems people don't have the slightest clue about.
No reason in making a game better? We should just wait for the expansion? Are you high? That is an awful mindset. Now perhaps it is unfair to expect them to make such a large change when they have a planned expansion, but this seems rather awful that Blizzard is extorting us for more money by NOT fixing huge and obvious flaws, not to mention I doubt they will fix them in HotS. "we're going to see a lot of features in HotS that the community has been wanting." LOL. Are you aware HotS is being made by BLIZZARD? Honestly I can't believe you could possibly believe that Blizzard will do anything like LAN or this or other features the community has been moaning about ever since B.net 2.0 was conceived in any of their future games.
The OP's program would be a 3rd party program for tournaments, not ladder. And if it works the way it should, it should remove situations like the MKP vs Parting GSTL debacle. I think it would be silly for Blizzard to use something like this when there are much much simpler ways to fix the games ending on disconnect, and sure we would definitely have to wait for HotS for them to implement something that would fix it, but the fact remains that this problem has ALWAYS existed, but in BW there was LAN for tournaments, but now there is nothing.
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On April 14 2012 10:42 Sprungjeezy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 09:16 RAW-BERRY wrote:On April 14 2012 07:20 RoyGBiv_13 wrote:On April 14 2012 07:04 Die4Ever wrote:On April 14 2012 07:00 RAW-BERRY wrote:
To everyone here herp derping, and complaining about Blizzard's lazyness, just fucking stop. Seriously. You have don't have the slightest clue as to what it is you're talking about. There's much more to it than putting a hack together and releasing it to the masses as separate software. While I agree with you that it would take much longer to make this a proper and polished feature inside of SC2, I still feel this feature is still a reasonable request from the community. Before it turns into a flame war, I would just like to point out that this and watching shared replays share a bunch of features. I expect the reason we dont have either is not because blizz doesn't want us to have it, but rather because in order to redesign the replay system, they have to re-enter QA, and if they do that, they might as well throw an entire expansion around it EDIT: furthermore, an alternate feature is for a player to enter into a game that is already running. In general, this is a good idea (for obsing and such). I 100% agree. There's no reason to go releasing new features with Wings of Liberty when HotS is right around the corner. I have a strong suspicion that we're going to see a lot of features in HotS that the community has been wanting. I just don't like baseless accusations regarding systems people don't have the slightest clue about. No reason in making a game better? We should just wait for the expansion? Are you high? That is an awful mindset. Now perhaps it is unfair to expect them to make such a large change when they have a planned expansion, but this seems rather awful that Blizzard is extorting us for more money by NOT fixing huge and obvious flaws, not to mention I doubt they will fix them in HotS. "we're going to see a lot of features in HotS that the community has been wanting." LOL. Are you aware HotS is being made by BLIZZARD? Honestly I can't believe you could possibly believe that Blizzard will do anything like LAN or this or other features the community has been moaning about ever since B.net 2.0 was conceived in any of their future games. The OP's program would be a 3rd party program for tournaments, not ladder. And if it works the way it should, it should remove situations like the MKP vs Parting GSTL debacle. I think it would be silly for Blizzard to use something like this when there are much much simpler ways to fix the games ending on disconnect, and sure we would definitely have to wait for HotS for them to implement something that would fix it, but the fact remains that this problem has ALWAYS existed, but in BW there was LAN for tournaments, but now there is nothing.
If we're only talking about using this in tournaments, I'm pretty sure every tournament will be using HotS soon after it comes out.
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I just find it amusing (in a general way, not in a point fingers sort of way) that I first saw this thread when it was about 2-3 pages long with everyone basically saying "1 post, do not trust," and now way later it's a spotlighted first post.
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Canada13389 Posts
On April 14 2012 10:58 Oiseaux wrote:
I just find it amusing (in a general way, not in a point fingers sort of way) that I first saw this thread when it was about 2-3 pages long with everyone basically saying "1 post, do not trust," and now way later it's a spotlighted first post.
Its since been checked im sure but in first page ppl werent necessarily good at checking for viruses etc.
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2275 Posts
Keep in mind that if Blizzard used a system like this, it's not enough to just code this and put it into the game, they'd also have to recode Warden to allow these memory changes. It's a lot more complicated to make a thing like this official than the unofficial version.
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Basically, this guy lurks on TL for a year, then decides hes going to solve the biggest issue of SC2 with his first post.
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Northern Ireland26225 Posts
On April 14 2012 12:22 Antimatterz wrote:
Basically, this guy lurks on TL for a year, then decides hes going to solve the biggest issue of SC2 with his first post.
Haha good point
Anyway, yeah I agree with the OP, it's a nice compromise between giving us the much-desired LAN, and Blizzard's position regarding losing a tonne of money if they did so. Gets rid of that source of controversy in big competitive matches.
Personally I don't really want it implemented in any way onto ladder though. I can imagine people would find a way to use it in a BM way, for example disconnecting when they have clearly lost so you'd be stuck waiting for a reconnect. With these kind of features, sadly you have to look at how it will be abused by the worst people in the community.
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Yet another reason why TL wins at internet. This is awesome, and if something like it doesn't come along during HotS then we should incite a riot to get it implemented.
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On April 14 2012 12:07 Chargelot wrote:
Keep in mind that if Blizzard used a system like this, it's not enough to just code this and put it into the game, they'd also have to recode Warden to allow these memory changes. It's a lot more complicated to make a thing like this official than the unofficial version.
As a software engineer who works large enterprise software contracts I can assure that to implement this in the game properly would be trivial compared to this guy hacking working memory from a third party. Warden would not be an issue because Blizzard would write their own protected API's to accomplish the same goal in a much simpler manner instead of hacking it.
The real reason that they haven't implemented it is likely to do with the priorities they have set out. They're probably behind schedule like every single software patch known to man is and are trying to get to the final phases of regression testing for the last patch before HotS. Meanwhile features and fixes meant for the final patch are getting pushed to HotS itself and they're probably breaking shit all over the place and finding that they rebroke shit throughout their regression testing.
Even if they wanted to implement something like this right now, they probably wouldn't be able to get it out until first or second patch of HotS.
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EPT
