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I love bnet forums.
> Blizz announces new units/ abilities/ changes
> Posters whine about things that are unconfirmed or vague
> Pros discover great new use and amazing micro
> Posters act like its the greatest thing since sliced bread and that they knew all along the changes are great
> Posters try to imitate pros and fail whale because their macro, micro and general game sense sux
> Posters post on TL forum asking what are the best strats to win games
> Posters whine about own race being difficult to play and other race EZ mode yet will still be same league with any race
> Posters whine about SC2 being EZ mode game yet they have no full mastery of it
> Posters whine about game being boring and why no one 1v1 ladders anymore
> Posters brag about Broodwar being best game because it is mechanically pro and strategically deep yet don't play it but instead organize whinefest in sc2 forums
> Rinse and repeat
Oh wait.. I meant TL forums... what did I say earlier?
Jeezus... can't you all just wait for the beta and give proper feedback IF you are in the beta testing.
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On April 12 2012 01:27 Tsenister wrote:
"We are also experimenting with an extremely long-ranged terran missile launcher that can be used to break siege tank lines to make terran-vs.-terran factory-based games more dynamic."
They're obviously just trolling, nukes are already in the game.
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The first comment on that link by "Alexstrasas" I find to be quite on point. His 3 points seem very sharp.
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On April 12 2012 01:27 Tsenister wrote:
"We are also experimenting with an extremely long-ranged terran missile launcher that can be used to break siege tank lines to make terran-vs.-terran factory-based games more dynamic."
So, basically in TvT standoffs, after destroying each others tank line with these, there will be an extremely-long-ranged-terran-missle-launcher-line?
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On April 13 2012 14:35 lazyitachi wrote:
I love bnet forums.
> Blizz announces new units/ abilities/ changes
> Posters whine about things that are unconfirmed or vague
> Pros discover great new use and amazing micro
> Posters act like its the greatest thing since sliced bread and that they knew all along the changes are great
> Posters try to imitate pros and fail whale because their macro, micro and general game sense sux
> Posters post on TL forum asking what are the best strats to win games
> Posters whine about own race being difficult to play and other race EZ mode yet will still be same league with any race
> Posters whine about SC2 being EZ mode game yet they have no full mastery of it
> Posters whine about game being boring and why no one 1v1 ladders anymore
> Posters brag about Broodwar being best game because it is mechanically pro and strategically deep yet don't play it but instead organize whinefest in sc2 forums
> Rinse and repeat
Oh wait.. I meant TL forums... what did I say earlier?
Jeezus... can't you all just wait for the beta and give proper feedback IF you are in the beta testing.
The whole point with even being able to post on these threads is to theorycraft and have fun with ideas. No reason to get so upset.
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sounds like this game isnt coming out for another 5 years
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On April 12 2012 02:02 Wildmoon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 02:01 Lexpar wrote:
I sort of hate a lot of this. Like that Viper thing. I wish that they would just stop beating around the bush and give it dark swarm. "It's not BW blah blah blah" but heres a unit that looks the same and plays the same and can cast the same spell except its a tiny bit different and much worse.
Or air spider mines? Hellions? Scrap both, give terrans vultures with real spider mines. I mean, they go to such lengths to not be BW, but all they're really doing is changing one tiny factor of a BW spell or unit, for the worse.
The lunkers that shoot out tiny bitches? Fuck those. Lurkers are an incredibly interesting and skill demanding unit- so lets make them the exact same except lame as fuck and useless.
These are goliaths that are just goliaths but not as cool and also they do extra damage to mech.
What if the arbiter was the nexus? But also put arbiters in the expansion. Except make them suck.
I'm bummed out.
Sry but I don't want BW again.
So let's cut zealots, lings, and marines then? Lexpar makes a good point- what they're trying to do with the units is obviously influenced by the old concepts. The game plays differently for so many reasons that have nothing to do with units that simply recycling old concepts isn't going to strip sc2 of its unique identity. Now I'm all for new concepts, but only if they're at least as good as the old ones. The burden is on blizzard to make something better, and if they can't, then damn it make the game in the best way possible. At this point, "beating around the bush" is probably the best way to describe what they're doing. Arbiters, defilers, lurkers, and goliaths are just getting Frankenstein'd into the game in ways that aren't as interesting as their original forms. I, for one, would rather just have the original units. Or even better, something truly original.
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On April 13 2012 14:35 lazyitachi wrote:
I love bnet forums.
> Blizz announces new units/ abilities/ changes
> Posters whine about things that are unconfirmed or vague
> Pros discover great new use and amazing micro
> Posters act like its the greatest thing since sliced bread and that they knew all along the changes are great
> Posters try to imitate pros and fail whale because their macro, micro and general game sense sux
> Posters post on TL forum asking what are the best strats to win games
> Posters whine about own race being difficult to play and other race EZ mode yet will still be same league with any race
> Posters whine about SC2 being EZ mode game yet they have no full mastery of it
> Posters whine about game being boring and why no one 1v1 ladders anymore
> Posters brag about Broodwar being best game because it is mechanically pro and strategically deep yet don't play it but instead organize whinefest in sc2 forums
> Rinse and repeat
Oh wait.. I meant TL forums... what did I say earlier?
Jeezus... can't you all just wait for the beta and give proper feedback IF you are in the beta testing.
That's it!
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On April 13 2012 16:24 robopork wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 02:02 Wildmoon wrote:On April 12 2012 02:01 Lexpar wrote:
I sort of hate a lot of this. Like that Viper thing. I wish that they would just stop beating around the bush and give it dark swarm. "It's not BW blah blah blah" but heres a unit that looks the same and plays the same and can cast the same spell except its a tiny bit different and much worse.
Or air spider mines? Hellions? Scrap both, give terrans vultures with real spider mines. I mean, they go to such lengths to not be BW, but all they're really doing is changing one tiny factor of a BW spell or unit, for the worse.
The lunkers that shoot out tiny bitches? Fuck those. Lurkers are an incredibly interesting and skill demanding unit- so lets make them the exact same except lame as fuck and useless.
These are goliaths that are just goliaths but not as cool and also they do extra damage to mech.
What if the arbiter was the nexus? But also put arbiters in the expansion. Except make them suck.
I'm bummed out.
Sry but I don't want BW again. So let's cut zealots, lings, and marines then? Lexpar makes a good point- what they're trying to do with the units is obviously influenced by the old concepts. The game plays differently for so many reasons that have nothing to do with units that simply recycling old concepts isn't going to strip sc2 of its unique identity. Now I'm all for new concepts, but only if they're at least as good as the old ones. The burden is on blizzard to make something better, and if they can't, then damn it make the game in the best way possible. At this point, "beating around the bush" is probably the best way to describe what they're doing. Arbiters, defilers, lurkers, and goliaths are just getting Frankenstein'd into the game in ways that aren't as interesting as their original forms. I, for one, would rather just have the original units. Or even better, something truly original.
I think he makes a lot of flawed points. The Viper's blinding spell isn't a "tiny bit" different from dark swarm, it has nothing to do with it. It also doesn't "play the same" as the defiler at all since it's a flyer.
Go for real spider mines instead of air spider mines? Whether its a ground or an air weapon doesn't make a difference?
Swarm Host, by constantly attacking, will force the besieged player to come out and fight it, Lurker does nothing of the sort. A unit generating a constant influx of smaller units that cost nothing IS a new concept. Or an expansion on the idea of broodlings which were present, but meaningless in BW.
Of course what they're trying to do is influenced by the old concepts. Everything anybody ever does in a video game (or music album, or movie, or ...) is influenced by old concepts. Also, this is a sequel. Sequels tend to be a combination of continuitiy (Zealots, Marines, Tanks, Zerglings, Mutalisks, there you go) and innovation (warp-in, Mule, Fortress, Worms, Larva Inject ...), and that's what they're supposed to be. Now some new units in itself are combinations of continuity and innovation. What the hell is wrong with that? Would you have wanted SC2 to be a completely new RTS with no Zealots, no Marines and so on, a completely new concept? That might have been interesting, but if that's what you want, I don't know why you didn't quit two years ago. They chose more continuity than that. Or do you want BW with better graphics? Go play SC2BW then. But imagine how unfathomably lame it would have been had they presented something like SC2BW as the long awaited sequel to BW. Everybody would have felt cheated.
Why should SC2 either be exactly the same as BW or be completely different? If you like spider mines, why not have something different, but similar in SC2? Why do they have to be exactly the same or be left out? I don't know where this all-or-nothing alternative comes from, and I don't agree with it.
Now if the specific degree and combination of innovation and continuity in SC2 doesn't suit you, okay, but you make it sound as if the whole concept was flawed. But it's just the concept of a sequel. People want some familiarity from a sequel, some reoccurring themes, but also want to see something new. SC2 offers both. Even if there was a spell similar to dark swarm, why is it such a sacrilege not to call it dark swarm? Who cares? Many SC2 players didn't even play Broodwar.
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On April 13 2012 16:24 robopork wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 02:02 Wildmoon wrote:On April 12 2012 02:01 Lexpar wrote:
I sort of hate a lot of this. Like that Viper thing. I wish that they would just stop beating around the bush and give it dark swarm. "It's not BW blah blah blah" but heres a unit that looks the same and plays the same and can cast the same spell except its a tiny bit different and much worse.
Or air spider mines? Hellions? Scrap both, give terrans vultures with real spider mines. I mean, they go to such lengths to not be BW, but all they're really doing is changing one tiny factor of a BW spell or unit, for the worse.
The lunkers that shoot out tiny bitches? Fuck those. Lurkers are an incredibly interesting and skill demanding unit- so lets make them the exact same except lame as fuck and useless.
These are goliaths that are just goliaths but not as cool and also they do extra damage to mech.
What if the arbiter was the nexus? But also put arbiters in the expansion. Except make them suck.
I'm bummed out.
Sry but I don't want BW again. So let's cut zealots, lings, and marines then? Lexpar makes a good point- what they're trying to do with the units is obviously influenced by the old concepts. The game plays differently for so many reasons that have nothing to do with units that simply recycling old concepts isn't going to strip sc2 of its unique identity. Now I'm all for new concepts, but only if they're at least as good as the old ones. The burden is on blizzard to make something better, and if they can't, then damn it make the game in the best way possible. At this point, "beating around the bush" is probably the best way to describe what they're doing. Arbiters, defilers, lurkers, and goliaths are just getting Frankenstein'd into the game in ways that aren't as interesting as their original forms. I, for one, would rather just have the original units. Or even better, something truly original.
Swarm hosts are no lurkers, oracles a completly new concept, vipers are nothing like defilers, if anything they share some abilities (flying T2 caster, good at dealing with a single big unit) to BW queens - which was a unit that absolutly could need a rework. still vipers are very original.
if people stopped comparing them to BW units, they would see how those units absolutly fulfill other roles.
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The zerg unit are really cool, I still hope for a new gate unit T.T
I don't want a carrier 2.0, just fix some of the actual carrier or bring some new on the protoss air (like oracle, it's damn cool). I really don't understand thoose "haters".. every time blizzard have something in mind is crap/bullshit/noBW/unbalanced/omgnerfterran/zergEZ/protossimba... guys stop whining about things that we cannot try (I'm a sad panda).. when the beta comes out we'll see and we can discuss pros and cons of the units.
My opinion is:
Blizzard is trying to give at every race almost 2 type of play, they're adding mech for terran.. so people that don't have high apm or a good unit control will play mech, and that's good.. because in lower league they can play mech and don't have the problem of putting pressure and macroing at the same time, so terran will became more user friendly. Zergs will have good tactical units, not just mass and aclick on the minimap, and protoss now finally go out from their second base and put pressure whitout going allin. If the 6m1g map will be added like a standard either the "ball vs ball" problem will disappear.. but honestly I don't think blizzard will adopt those maps Q.Q However.. some will be done for that problem.. at almost I hope ^^
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On April 13 2012 10:26 GhoSt[shield] wrote:
Kinda sad the overseer is staying in the game. Impossible to keep enough detectors alive v Protoss Mothership Deathball as it is. Just give me an upgrade that upgrades ALL my overlords into detectors ffs Blizzard. Wasn't a big deal in BW.
Kinda sad you overlooked that the mothership is intended to be removed in HotS.
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On April 13 2012 17:16 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2012 16:24 robopork wrote:On April 12 2012 02:02 Wildmoon wrote:On April 12 2012 02:01 Lexpar wrote:
I sort of hate a lot of this. Like that Viper thing. I wish that they would just stop beating around the bush and give it dark swarm. "It's not BW blah blah blah" but heres a unit that looks the same and plays the same and can cast the same spell except its a tiny bit different and much worse.
Or air spider mines? Hellions? Scrap both, give terrans vultures with real spider mines. I mean, they go to such lengths to not be BW, but all they're really doing is changing one tiny factor of a BW spell or unit, for the worse.
The lunkers that shoot out tiny bitches? Fuck those. Lurkers are an incredibly interesting and skill demanding unit- so lets make them the exact same except lame as fuck and useless.
These are goliaths that are just goliaths but not as cool and also they do extra damage to mech.
What if the arbiter was the nexus? But also put arbiters in the expansion. Except make them suck.
I'm bummed out.
Sry but I don't want BW again. So let's cut zealots, lings, and marines then? Lexpar makes a good point- what they're trying to do with the units is obviously influenced by the old concepts. The game plays differently for so many reasons that have nothing to do with units that simply recycling old concepts isn't going to strip sc2 of its unique identity. Now I'm all for new concepts, but only if they're at least as good as the old ones. The burden is on blizzard to make something better, and if they can't, then damn it make the game in the best way possible. At this point, "beating around the bush" is probably the best way to describe what they're doing. Arbiters, defilers, lurkers, and goliaths are just getting Frankenstein'd into the game in ways that aren't as interesting as their original forms. I, for one, would rather just have the original units. Or even better, something truly original. Swarm hosts are no lurkers, oracles a completly new concept, vipers are nothing like defilers, if anything they share some abilities (flying T2 caster, good at dealing with a single big unit) to BW queens - which was a unit that absolutly could need a rework. still vipers are very original. if people stopped comparing them to BW units, they would see how those units absolutly fulfill other roles.
And still call them shitty because thats what they are.
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edit: its late and my thoughts have nothing to contribute atm.
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On April 13 2012 17:45 [F_]aths wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2012 10:26 GhoSt[shield] wrote:
Kinda sad the overseer is staying in the game. Impossible to keep enough detectors alive v Protoss Mothership Deathball as it is. Just give me an upgrade that upgrades ALL my overlords into detectors ffs Blizzard. Wasn't a big deal in BW.
Kinda sad you overlooked that the mothership is intended to be removed in HotS.
too true, now I have to edit another post T_T. ffs its late. Ty
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On April 13 2012 14:35 lazyitachi wrote:
I love bnet forums.
> Blizz announces new units/ abilities/ changes
> Posters whine about things that are unconfirmed or vague
> Pros discover great new use and amazing micro
> Posters act like its the greatest thing since sliced bread and that they knew all along the changes are great
> Posters try to imitate pros and fail whale because their macro, micro and general game sense sux
> Posters post on TL forum asking what are the best strats to win games
> Posters whine about own race being difficult to play and other race EZ mode yet will still be same league with any race
> Posters whine about SC2 being EZ mode game yet they have no full mastery of it
> Posters whine about game being boring and why no one 1v1 ladders anymore
> Posters brag about Broodwar being best game because it is mechanically pro and strategically deep yet don't play it but instead organize whinefest in sc2 forums
> Rinse and repeat
Oh wait.. I meant TL forums... what did I say earlier?
Jeezus... can't you all just wait for the beta and give proper feedback IF you are in the beta testing.
Lol! True story!
Also: How am I supposed to keep waiting for HotS when it sounds so bloody gooooood?!
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HotS is the first of two steps to improve a very good game to a great game. I guess most of us expected HotS about 12-18 month after the WoL release. But Blizzard takes its time. During the time, the expansion developing team has to be paid. Obviously they think it's worth it.
Some guys seem to forget that the game must fit the needs for a very wide audience. It must be a good game for casual players, because they are the majority and in a sense they pay the costs for all the polish needed to make SC2 esports viable. We do need cool units. We do need some bombastic effects on screen, because some esports watchers are not even players, but they bring the money and keep the pro scene alive.
But as I see it, HotS rather focusses on higher skill ceiling than on more newb friendliness. HotS also still tries to bring something new to the game. If someone doubts Browder's competence, he should watch this video: http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014488/The-Game-Design-of-STARCRAFT
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On April 13 2012 14:35 lazyitachi wrote:
I love bnet forums.
> Blizz announces new units/ abilities/ changes
> Posters whine about things that are unconfirmed or vague
> Pros discover great new use and amazing micro
> Posters act like its the greatest thing since sliced bread and that they knew all along the changes are great
> Posters try to imitate pros and fail whale because their macro, micro and general game sense sux
> Posters post on TL forum asking what are the best strats to win games
> Posters whine about own race being difficult to play and other race EZ mode yet will still be same league with any race
> Posters whine about SC2 being EZ mode game yet they have no full mastery of it
> Posters whine about game being boring and why no one 1v1 ladders anymore
> Posters brag about Broodwar being best game because it is mechanically pro and strategically deep yet don't play it but instead organize whinefest in sc2 forums
> Rinse and repeat
Oh wait.. I meant TL forums... what did I say earlier?
Jeezus... can't you all just wait for the beta and give proper feedback IF you are in the beta testing.
I didn't know enjoying a meta game shift that alters the balance meant you enjoyed the unit design. In fact, I don't even know what point you're trying to make other than mindless straw-manning.
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ZvZ is going to be interesting. Blind queens with vipers and then feed off their minerals.
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im wondering how much they consult new stuff with the pros.
Hopefully there wont be too much imba stuff.
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EPT
