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Lunaro
Canada77 Posts
On April 04 2012 22:06 Garmer wrote: if u use all your arsenal, do not call it "bio or mech" cuz is wrong u know... on BW when you do mech, u don't use wraith vessel and bc all the time... If you can repair it, it's mech | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16127 Posts
No it isn't. Mech = factory units. Let me break it down for you, so you can understand the discussion a little better. Bio = MMMGV = Marine Marauder Ghost Viking BioMech = Marine Tank with support units that can include anything from Marauders to Vikings to Ravens. Sky Terran = Starport units supported by Bio. The key unit separating Sky Terran from Bio is the Banshee. Mech = Hellion/Thor/Siege Tank with potential Viking/Raven or Ghost support. This isn't a thread about the viability of Sky Terran. That's a different discussion with different points to be made. IF you're trying to advocate that somehow Terrans mix Factory units with Starport units in the late game with upgrades supporting all of them, well then you're just being completely unreasonable because that unit composition requires an amount of gas only obtainable on 4 or greater bases. Something you'll never have in TvP with an immobile unit composition like Mech. | ||
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Quotidian
Norway1937 Posts
On April 05 2012 10:53 paintfive wrote: PFs are really good.. when you've got 24 SCVs repairing it Insightful post... +range and +armor PFs are really good if you have two next to each other with tanks in between/behind them.. you don't even need to repair. Etc. PFs are really good, period On April 05 2012 11:12 Vindicare605 wrote: No it isn't. Mech = factory units. This isn't a thread about the viability of Sky Terran. That's a different discussion with different points to be made. IF you're trying to advocate that somehow Terrans mix Factory units with Starport units in the late game with upgrades supporting all of them, well then you're just being completely unreasonable because that unit composition requires an amount of gas only obtainable on 4 or greater bases. Something you'll never have in TvP with an immobile unit composition like Mech. the fact of the matter is, straight up 100% factory units doesn't work in SC2 like it did in BW, pretty much because of game design, so people should trying to make it work. But you can still play a tvp style that feels like mech, in that you siege up, hold positions, harass a ton and eventually you just roll the protoss army. You can go unupgraded air units into upgraded factory units, or you can upgrade air and not get factory upgrades until later.. both can work. But I think regardless of what your long term plan is, opening cloaked banshees is always the best thing to do. I personally always get air upgrades first, because you very often survive big battles because you've sniped observers and now your 6-8 banshees are killing everything. And heavy banshee harass keeps the protoss on 2 bases usually, while terran can take a 3rd and sneak a 4th. If you take the protoss' 4th on Shakuras for instance, and PF it up, the instant the protoss sends his army to take it out, you siege up his natural. If you also have a PF back home to fall back on, you can trade armies and come out way ahead with 3 mining bases to his almost mined out 1. Regarding the upgrade synergy issue, I think that whole notion is completely overplayed. I remember I used to feel like protoss could just roll my factory army.. but then I started to check what the upgrade disparity was. Usually my factory units would be underdeveloped, and still the protoss army with superior upgrades would take significant losses. An important thing to consider is that unupgraded factory units can go toe-to-toe with an upgraded protoss army that has been struggling to deal with banshees for the first 20 minutes of the game, just because that kind of protoss army will not do well against factory units. Gas isn't really an issue. If protoss can get a gas heavy army up pretty much every game, so can terran. | ||
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Scufo
United States136 Posts
It sucks, but the (formerly) iconic Terran unit just isn't usable in the match-up. I would give up on Mech until HotS. Battle Hellions and Warhounds, at least, seem useful. But I don't think there's any way to save tanks, and without tanks it can hardly be called Mech at all... | ||
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Janko
Slovenia28 Posts
Nevertheless I think something needs to be done about viability of Terran high tech units in TvP. Upgrades are also problematic because they split bio and mech so most Terran players choose to follow one path or the other instead of mixing their armies. | ||
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Faust852
Luxembourg4004 Posts
Mobility of the protoss is an illusion : If he tries to poke you with Blink Stalker, you have a big amount of banshees and hellions to clean it up and with sensor tower, you're ready to welcome him. Plus, if he commits to much en blink stalkers, you've win the game because stalkers just suck against everything, they melt to thor, to tanks, to banshees, raven nulify them. | ||
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Quotidian
Norway1937 Posts
On April 05 2012 20:57 Janko wrote: Blizzard was after short <20 minute games when designing this game. Since mech produces very long games they had to make it less viable somehow. Nevertheless I think something needs to be done about viability of Terran high tech units in TvP. Upgrades are also problematic because they split bio and mech so most Terran players choose to follow one path or the other instead of mixing their armies. people overestimate how difficult it is to get both upgrade paths. It's possible to go bio/tanks in both tvt and tvz, and get enough upgrades for the compositions to be viable. The same is of course true for tvp. | ||
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Ignorant prodigy
United States385 Posts
Attacking with a mostly stalker army into that position with 2 or 3 PDDs is an insta-loss. Same way if a Terran Bio army just stood under a storm w/o trying to dodge it. The protoss should bate the PDDs and back off, sort of like trying to bate a FF or seige. Also a couple phoenix shut down banshee’s and free up the stalkers. HT IMO are the best counter to banshee…storm/feedback and archons waste them. Add in the feedback on thors/BCs and HT are just the go-to unit against Mech IMO. | ||
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Zyrnak
United States179 Posts
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YyapSsap
New Zealand1511 Posts
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Rockztar
Denmark210 Posts
It works, but it is to some extend just as fragile as bio is. I feel like it's really dependant on Ghosts, and if you mess the ghost control up it's gonna be way way way expensive to replenish your army. On top of this it's really gas heavy, might be the most gas heavy army to have to build up on from the early game of any composition out there. I mean you can barely even afford getting one upgrade if you do the Jiakji style for example. The way I play it is opening with cloaked banshees, and then beginning thor pump at home with a reactored rax for dumping minerals, and then later on in the game on 3 base you can start adding bf hellions. For the very lategame I can afford a few ghosts, but it's really hard to get that money composition. The problem with mech imo. is that it's so susceptible to feedbacks. <.< That's why you have to have great EMP control, but if you can get the HTs it works just as well as standard bio, even better sometimes I'd say(depending on how good the opponent is at adjusting his army composition). A great thing about mech in TvP is also that archons aren't thaaaaat effective, and neither is storm if you bring a lot of scvs for repairing up. I feel like a big problem in TvP lategame is that terran doesn't have a good gasdump, while protosses had a really really sick one in Archons(100 minerals, 300 gas for one). That doesn't become such a big deal now seeing as how they don't damage mech anywhere near as much as bio. Siege tanks aren't useless against protoss obviously, but you should rely more on hellion/thor/banshee/ghost/raven imo. | ||
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