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Flanlord
265 Posts
MLG is a great tournament, but it stopped being alone at the top for the foreign scene, which seems like an awkward time to become the only Pay-Per-View event for Starcraft 2. It would be like DotA2 launching with a $60 box price. It just doesn't work when you are the only of your genre to be charging. | ||
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Duravi
United States1205 Posts
On February 28 2012 15:22 Balgrog wrote: If a customer is mad at MLG because there was a work around, fuck them. This is a stupid statement to make. Was there a great stream all weekend long with the quality that MLG had promised (bar the twitchtv problem in the finals)? YES! They were not cheated out of anything. This is basically saying "God damnit apple! Why the fuck did I BUY your iPad when I could have STOLEN it?! You need to fix this!". People who were able to watch due to incognito/adblock/or some even saying it just worked, did not steal anything. They went to the MLG website and the stream was free. Calling adblock or incognito a work around is laughable, they are both things many use for default browsing and require no tech savvy. It may have been unintended, but it wasn't stealing, it was incompetence on twitch's part. | ||
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sereniity
Sweden1159 Posts
On February 28 2012 15:22 Balgrog wrote: If a customer is mad at MLG because there was a work around, fuck them. This is a stupid statement to make. Was there a great stream all weekend long with the quality that MLG had promised (bar the twitchtv problem in the finals)? YES! They were not cheated out of anything. This is basically saying "God damnit apple! Why the fuck did I BUY your iPad when I could have STOLEN it?! You need to fix this!". MLG Basically put the iPad in front of the eyes of the public with nobody protecting it, it's a whole different thing. MLG Fucked up with their paywall and everybody who paid have every right to be pissed off at them. Why should they pay in the future if they might as well look at it for free? And don't say "to support e-sports" because there's not close to enough people that would actually pay just for that. | ||
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Arco
United States2090 Posts
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pezit
Sweden302 Posts
On February 28 2012 19:11 sereniity wrote: MLG Basically put the iPad in front of the eyes of the public with nobody protecting it, it's a whole different thing. MLG Fucked up with their paywall and everybody who paid have every right to be pissed off at them. Why should they pay in the future if they might as well look at it for free? And don't say "to support e-sports" because there's not close to enough people that would actually pay just for that. No if you take an iPad you're stealing, this was more like putting a TV on an open street and expecting those who didn't pay to close their eyes. | ||
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karpo
Sweden1998 Posts
On February 28 2012 15:22 Balgrog wrote: If a customer is mad at MLG because there was a work around, fuck them. This is a stupid statement to make. Was there a great stream all weekend long with the quality that MLG had promised (bar the twitchtv problem in the finals)? YES! They were not cheated out of anything. This is basically saying "God damnit apple! Why the fuck did I BUY your iPad when I could have STOLEN it?! You need to fix this!". Man this is some crazy ass logic. So people shouldn't feel upset for paying for something that others get for free? I had the stream on in the background to see if i ever got the payment popup and i didn't for the entire saturday up until sunday finals. If other people got my PPV movie channels for free just by luck i'd be pretty pissed that i paid for them. And the stream wasn't great for anyone outside the US. The 1080p and 720p streams were unstable and weren't watchable for me most of the time. And i'm on 100/100 with a stable tested connection to NYC. And MLG Adam overhyped the stream and how great it would be, the Dr Pepper stream was sold as some kind of fun extra content while in reality is was just the same tired guys sitting around or sleeping. Anyone arguing that getting a free stream due to no popup or used a simple thing like incognito or Adblock is the same as stealing physical copies of electronics/games need to wake the fuck up. | ||
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natebreen
United States184 Posts
On February 28 2012 21:19 pezit wrote: No if you take an iPad you're stealing, this was more like putting a TV on an open street and expecting those who didn't pay to close their eyes. Anyone who got hit by the ad wall, went to TL, learned the "workaround," and then installed adblock/incognito and watched is a thief. Plain and simple. | ||
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karpo
Sweden1998 Posts
On February 28 2012 22:17 natebreen wrote: Anyone who got hit by the ad wall, went to TL, learned the "workaround," and then installed adblock/incognito and watched is a thief. Plain and simple. Nope. You don't install incognito, it's a standard service that comes with Chrome. And you could call those persons pirates but not thieves as they infringed upon copyright, they didn't steal. | ||
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natebreen
United States184 Posts
On February 28 2012 22:29 karpo wrote: Nope. You don't install incognito, it's a standard service that comes with Chrome. And you could call those persons pirates but not thieves as they infringed upon copyright, they didn't steal. Actually in the US signal substitution and bypassing PPV walls is theft. Not to mention, it's more about the spirit of things isn't it? No one is immune from being called a "thief" for pirating or accessing content they didn't pay for. We almost all do it. The issue is the spirit of the theft. The people on TL attempting to assuage themselves of their guilt are saying that it's MLG's fault and that they shouldn't have charged $20 and had such a shitty system. They also say that the people who paid shouldn't be mad at them, but should be mad at MLG. Honestly, no one should be mad, just disappointed. If MLG messed up with the price point and you disagree with it, then take a stand and DON'T WATCH. Pirating the stream and watching is hypocritical at best, and theft at worst. | ||
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TemujinGK
United States483 Posts
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Yrm
Denmark41 Posts
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karpo
Sweden1998 Posts
On February 28 2012 22:42 natebreen wrote: Actually in the US signal substitution and bypassing PPV walls is theft. Not to mention, it's more about the spirit of things isn't it? No one is immune from being called a "thief" for pirating or accessing content they didn't pay for. We almost all do it. The issue is the spirit of the theft. The people on TL attempting to assuage themselves of their guilt are saying that it's MLG's fault and that they shouldn't have charged $20 and had such a shitty system. They also say that the people who paid shouldn't be mad at them, but should be mad at MLG. Honestly, no one should be mad, just disappointed. If MLG messed up with the price point and you disagree with it, then take a stand and DON'T WATCH. Pirating the stream and watching is hypocritical at best, and theft at worst. Why is it hypocritical to pirate a stream if you don't think it's worth the money? Isn't that often why people don't buy records, games, or blurays, because they are overpriced? I'm not going to go into the morals part but if someone says they'd pay $10 but no more and then pirates doesn't make them hypocritical in any sense of the word. Also what i found about pirate decryption of PPV channels from Wikipedia: Pirate decryption most often refers to the reception of compromised pay TV or pay radio signals without authorization from the original broadcaster. The term "pirate" in this case is used in the sense of copyright infringement and has little or nothing to do with sea piracy or pirate radio, which involved the operation of a small broadcast radio station without lawfully obtaining a license to transmit. The MPAA and other organizations which try to protect copyright and licensing agreements often call such decryption "signal theft"[1] even though there is no direct tangible loss. Seems like it's copyright infringement and not theft. The media coorporations want to call it theft but it's not considered so by law. | ||
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sotaporo
Finland195 Posts
On February 28 2012 15:22 Balgrog wrote: If a customer is mad at MLG because there was a work around, fuck them. This is a stupid statement to make. Was there a great stream all weekend long with the quality that MLG had promised (bar the twitchtv problem in the finals)? YES! They were not cheated out of anything. This is basically saying "God damnit apple! Why the fuck did I BUY your iPad when I could have STOLEN it?! You need to fix this!". saying its like stealing an ipad is making it something that it isn't. is it stealing if i turn on a tv and somehow some ppv channel or anything that would normally require some sort of payment starts showing? no. | ||
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CarlosOmse
Germany507 Posts
to be honestly after i saw that production i would have proably bought a pass if i had a working paypal or a creditcrad i though they did and amazing job just the lag problem seems to be a big issue | ||
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kudlaty_true
Poland158 Posts
20 bucks is 1/3 of entire retail price of a game on which ONE tournament is played. ONE tournament, which there are dozens of. (with the same players). On top of it - they have cut the open public, so unless you are in a barcraft, you are not gonna hear any cheer, which in any kind of live tournament is like the most important thing. I guess MLG can now be compared to "i" everything, courtesy of Steve Jobs: HIGHLY overpriced thing, which BETTER quality counterpart can be obtained by MUCH less means. And in some countries 20 bucks is still a lot of cash. | ||
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natebreen
United States184 Posts
On February 28 2012 23:01 karpo wrote: Why is it hypocritical to pirate a stream if you don't think it's worth the money? Isn't that often why people don't buy records, games, or blurays, because they are overpriced? I'm not going to go into the morals part but if someone says they'd pay $10 but no more and then pirates doesn't make them hypocritical in any sense of the word. Also what i found about pirate decryption of PPV channels from Wikipedia: Seems like it's copyright infringement and not theft. The media coorporations want to call it theft but it's not considered so by law. lol. wikipedia is not a reliable source. Even churches in the United States have been sued or charged for infringing on content, thus stealing profits from the company for rebroadcasting. In any event, the semantics game is silly. Call it what you want, and phrase it how you want, but at the end of the day, the people who intentionally thwarted MLG's Pay Wall, no matter how "easy" it was, are no better than someone sneaking in the back door at an MLG event. Both should be looked down on by our community, and we should strive for better. If you disagree with the price point then DO NOT watch and wait to endorse MLG arenas until the price fits your desires. Restreaming or stealing their content by bypassing their pay wall is not how to make your voice heard; It's just being a spoiled brat. | ||
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rEiGN~
369 Posts
If you disagree with the price point then DO NOT watch and wait to endorse MLG arenas until the price fits your desires. Uhh, and why not? Restreaming or stealing their content by bypassing their pay wall is not how to make your voice heard; It's just being a spoiled brat. Sound argument bro. | ||
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Talin
Montenegro10532 Posts
On February 29 2012 03:37 natebreen wrote: If you disagree with the price point then DO NOT watch and wait to endorse MLG arenas until the price fits your desires. Restreaming or stealing their content by bypassing their pay wall is not how to make your voice heard; It's just being a spoiled brat. Why would anybody restrain themselves from using a different (and free) service instead? Because you're going to call them spoiled brats otherwise? Such a powerful argument you got there. Anyhow, this thread is not about the concept of piracy, and there's no need to turn it into one. There are plenty of active threads on that topic on TL (such as this one). | ||
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battyone
United States180 Posts
On February 29 2012 03:54 Talin wrote: Why would anybody restrain themselves from using a different (and free) service instead? Because you're going to call them spoiled brats otherwise? Such a powerful argument you got there. Anyhow, this thread is not about the concept of piracy, and there's no need to turn it into one. There are plenty of active threads on that topic on TL (such as this one). The argument should really be that they feel entitled to the content and not required to pay for it, even when there is a ton of actually free content that's going on at the same time. The thread has been a debate on the semantics of piracy vs theft vs theft of service vs etc for about 40 pages, a bit late to try to steer the topic away from it. Basically it is ethically weak to say "I don't like this, but I am still going to watch it!" because inadvertently or not you are showing that it IS worth it, that you are willing to give it your time but not your money. It isn't like Sundance said "Okay guys, I get it, payment is going to be optional, like a tip jar." It was a PPV event, and if you chose to not pay but still watch it your ethics are seriously questionable. Of course, if you don't care about your ethics, or have none to begin with, then the decision is an easy one. Take the content, don't pay for it, then post on teamliquid about how smart you were for bypassing the paywall, and then retract that and say how easy it was, then turn around and call everyones argument weak becuase that's what keeps you warm at night. At the end of the day the people who restreamed or bypassed the paywall may have gotten their content for free, they may have gotten one over on MLG, but they also are a gigantic red flag for content producers. More people pirated the stream than paid for it in the poll, which I guess is great if MLG was going for brand exposure and not to run a profitable tournament. What does this say about the community? I know the price was steep and this was an experiment, but it boggles my mind that more people restreamed/paywall bypassed than actually paid for the damn event according to the poll. What point did you prove? Perhaps next time if it isn't worth what the creators are asking for it, you should just watch something else (Assembley, Vods, live streams, and the plethora of free content out there), otherwise you're just hurting the argument that it wasn't worth paying for in the first place. The content was obviously better than the free stuff if you watched it. At least if you are going to say it isn't worth it, watch a streamer so they get some ad revenue, or do something else that you feel is worth your time and money. Spoiled brats? Nah. Ethically weak? Absolutely. *EDIT -- as a quick TL;DR: and analogy, since they're fairly popular in this thread. This is the difference between pirating microsoft office and using libre office. You can compare the two products, and for some one is worth more than the other. It's ethically weak to pirate a copy of microsoft office when there is a Free and Open Source alternate that could benefit from your usage and feedback and input. | ||
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
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