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On February 27 2012 12:00 Kaitlin wrote:
So, I've read threads the General Forum about Piracy and it seems the majority of the posters don't have a problem with it. I'm curious how the 'piracy is ok' crowd feels about the people watching the streams through the glitch, without paying. I've read some posts about 'killing eSports' but people don't seem to mind it when they are the ones getting content (software, etc) for free through piracy. To me, even though it's MLG's fault for making it so easy to watch their content for free, it's still basically piracy.
Yeah exactly its piracy(and really its Ok, but its kinda funny how much people are justifying themeselves) but MLG is the one that screwed up and made it so easy to get around their system.
I guess people seem to forget it takes actual effort and skill to produce this :|
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I paid even though I suspected it would be easy enough to find a restream. I didn't mind paying this time as I wanted to support the scene a bit, and am in a position to be able to afford it. Obviously people will restream.
I do find the workaround method objectionable, but that's MLG's fault not anyone who used it.
Don't blame the people who watched without paying, if you feel that cheated then watch a restream next time.
edit: I also think the weekend's starcraft was worth $20 (thanks naniwa).
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On February 27 2012 12:02 MasterKush wrote:
Nobody is addressing the bigger issue in this thread... eSports isn't ready to be monetized in the form of PPV.
Instead we have a flame war with people who have disposable income versus those who don't. What is the point in discussing wether someone is a pirate or not? You could change the title of this thread to "How did you watch [Insert Film Name]?" and you'd get exactly the same debate going on.
Really? And on what are you basing this on? Just curious because thats a conclusion with a lot of implications to be based on just a hunch
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On February 27 2012 11:54 foxSC wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 11:53 Astro-Penguin wrote:On February 27 2012 11:42 dsousa wrote:On February 27 2012 11:35 Kharnage wrote:On February 27 2012 11:25 windsupernova wrote:
Really people should not be angry at the people who watched MLG for free due to the cookie bug. It was MLGs own damn fault their system didn't work. It does suck for people like me who payed and I certainly hope MLG makes up for this somehow.
But its MLGs fault they didn't lock the door and people could "sneak in" and watch for free.Starcraft isn't some kind of basic necessity though so I don't know why some people act as if it was their right to be able to watch it for free though... especially since as many of you have said there is tons of free content so no need to try to cheat MLgs moronic system Fuck off. That's like saying you shouldn't be angry if someone cheats at SC2 cause it's blizzards fault for not making the game secure enough. They know it's the wrong thing to do and yet do it anyway, that is the definition of evil right there. Wrong is when you do tangible damage to tangible things. Not when your computer interprets bits sent to it via a url. I had a great MLG weekend, and I still have $20 in my pocket :D Probably some guy guy laid by 2 chicks while watching the stream for free...... do you hate him even more? The FACTS IS: You didn't have to pay to watch MLG! You did. You decided to.... don't be mad at the people smart enough to know that the pay wall would be made of paper . Never knew people were actually this ignorant In my eyes hes smarter than you. He got for free what you paid for.
smarter rly?
do you rly. think the only reason why i choose to pay for it its because im stupid.
every time i choose to read some posts on the internet.
my mind gets blown away by how "i might have some English limitation but i can not even find a word in my first and second language to express my self about how people are"
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On February 27 2012 12:04 di3alot wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 11:54 foxSC wrote:On February 27 2012 11:53 Astro-Penguin wrote:On February 27 2012 11:42 dsousa wrote:On February 27 2012 11:35 Kharnage wrote:On February 27 2012 11:25 windsupernova wrote:
Really people should not be angry at the people who watched MLG for free due to the cookie bug. It was MLGs own damn fault their system didn't work. It does suck for people like me who payed and I certainly hope MLG makes up for this somehow.
But its MLGs fault they didn't lock the door and people could "sneak in" and watch for free.Starcraft isn't some kind of basic necessity though so I don't know why some people act as if it was their right to be able to watch it for free though... especially since as many of you have said there is tons of free content so no need to try to cheat MLgs moronic system Fuck off. That's like saying you shouldn't be angry if someone cheats at SC2 cause it's blizzards fault for not making the game secure enough. They know it's the wrong thing to do and yet do it anyway, that is the definition of evil right there. Wrong is when you do tangible damage to tangible things. Not when your computer interprets bits sent to it via a url. I had a great MLG weekend, and I still have $20 in my pocket :D Probably some guy guy laid by 2 chicks while watching the stream for free...... do you hate him even more? The FACTS IS: You didn't have to pay to watch MLG! You did. You decided to.... don't be mad at the people smart enough to know that the pay wall would be made of paper . Never knew people were actually this ignorant In my eyes hes smarter than you. He got for free what you paid for. smarter rly? do you rly. think the only reason why i choose to pay for it its because im stupid.
Yes, yes i do. why else pay for something you can get for free?
also, dont feed me straight lines please haha
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I didn't pay, and I didn't watch, but I did follow the event via liquipedia brackets and whatnot. If it was a little cheaper, I could more easily justify spending the money, but as it is, I had to do work, so I couldn't devote my full attention to the event. While it might be worth $20 if I could devote my attention to it the whole weekend, it certainly wasn't worth it if I had to split my attention.
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On February 27 2012 11:54 TheSir wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 11:41 Forikorder wrote:
it wasnt something that was free
watching it from the site when you didnt pay is jsut as bad as watching a restream they are both the same, your watching a PPV event without paying or having intent to pay
Wow you have no idea how it works do you. You do know in other sports etc there are a ton of people (dickheads) who make a living by just re-streaming copyrighted stuff? So yes watching a re-stream is bad, watching the original stream which is free although it's supposed to be PPV is not. It's not PPV, it's simpe as that. Is it bad when you go to the store and they mess up at the checkout and you get for example a case of beer for free? No it's not. Do other customers in the store get up set about it? Uuh no..... Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 11:41 Forikorder wrote:
but there was lots of people watching the restream who would ahve paid so the restream cost MLG money No they dont, research about piracy have been shown again and again that if people dont buy it, they will never do it. Only like 3/4% would maybe considering paying. Most times they will just move on to something else.
let me correct that research with some true numbers:
Do you remember a game called Assassin's Creed (1 specifically)? It sold 7k boxes in Russia.
do you remember another game called Assassin's Creed 2 (with online only copyright protection, including huge outcries about bad ubisoft etc.etc.) It sold 100k boxes in Russia.
Any research on piracy that i have seen has either been flawed in it's methology or inherently biased (often in favor of the publishers).
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On February 27 2012 12:02 MasterKush wrote:
Nobody is addressing the bigger issue in this thread... eSports isn't ready to be monetized in the form of PPV.
Instead we have a flame war with people who have disposable income versus those who don't. What is the point in discussing wether someone is a pirate or not? You could change the title of this thread to "How did you watch [Insert Film Name]?" and you'd get exactly the same debate going on.
Remind me why you are the guy that makes that call? There's only one way to find out if it's ready, and based of what Sundance said it is, completely contradicting your post.
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On February 27 2012 11:54 foxSC wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 11:53 Astro-Penguin wrote:On February 27 2012 11:42 dsousa wrote:On February 27 2012 11:35 Kharnage wrote:On February 27 2012 11:25 windsupernova wrote:
Really people should not be angry at the people who watched MLG for free due to the cookie bug. It was MLGs own damn fault their system didn't work. It does suck for people like me who payed and I certainly hope MLG makes up for this somehow.
But its MLGs fault they didn't lock the door and people could "sneak in" and watch for free.Starcraft isn't some kind of basic necessity though so I don't know why some people act as if it was their right to be able to watch it for free though... especially since as many of you have said there is tons of free content so no need to try to cheat MLgs moronic system Fuck off. That's like saying you shouldn't be angry if someone cheats at SC2 cause it's blizzards fault for not making the game secure enough. They know it's the wrong thing to do and yet do it anyway, that is the definition of evil right there. Wrong is when you do tangible damage to tangible things. Not when your computer interprets bits sent to it via a url. I had a great MLG weekend, and I still have $20 in my pocket :D Probably some guy guy laid by 2 chicks while watching the stream for free...... do you hate him even more? The FACTS IS: You didn't have to pay to watch MLG! You did. You decided to.... don't be mad at the people smart enough to know that the pay wall would be made of paper . Never knew people were actually this ignorant In my eyes hes smarter than you. He got for free what you paid for.
There's a moral philosophy you can feel good about. Everything for you, nothing for others. Whoever steals the most with the least effort is the smartest. Everything belongs to everyone, except for the people who actually make everything--they only get paid by the suckers.
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On February 27 2012 12:02 MasterKush wrote:
Nobody is addressing the bigger issue in this thread... eSports isn't ready to be monetized in the form of PPV.
Instead we have a flame war with people who have disposable income versus those who don't. What is the point in discussing wether someone is a pirate or not? You could change the title of this thread to "How did you watch [Insert Film Name]?" and you'd get exactly the same debate going on.
how do you know?
wheres your data? where your experiments? wheres your evidence? wheres your PROOF?
you have no proof, the only evidence we have is winter arena which was aparently a big hit, big enough of a hit that sundance thought "hmm with a bit of tweaking this could work" so obviously we ARE ready for some tournaments to be PPV, will the next tourny be 20$? probably not, will the paywall be so easily bypassed? certainly not
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On February 27 2012 12:05 Tula wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 11:54 TheSir wrote:On February 27 2012 11:41 Forikorder wrote:
it wasnt something that was free
watching it from the site when you didnt pay is jsut as bad as watching a restream they are both the same, your watching a PPV event without paying or having intent to pay
Wow you have no idea how it works do you. You do know in other sports etc there are a ton of people (dickheads) who make a living by just re-streaming copyrighted stuff? So yes watching a re-stream is bad, watching the original stream which is free although it's supposed to be PPV is not. It's not PPV, it's simpe as that. Is it bad when you go to the store and they mess up at the checkout and you get for example a case of beer for free? No it's not. Do other customers in the store get up set about it? Uuh no..... On February 27 2012 11:41 Forikorder wrote:
but there was lots of people watching the restream who would ahve paid so the restream cost MLG money No they dont, research about piracy have been shown again and again that if people dont buy it, they will never do it. Only like 3/4% would maybe considering paying. Most times they will just move on to something else. let me correct that research with some true numbers: Do you remember a game called Assassin's Creed (1 specifically)? It sold 7k boxes in Russia. do you remember another game called Assassin's Creed 2 (with online only copyright protection, including huge outcries about bad ubisoft etc.etc.) It sold 100k boxes in Russia. Any research on piracy that i have seen has either been flawed in it's methology or inherently biased (often in favor of the publishers).
But AC1 was pretty crappy man 
AC2 was so much better
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On February 27 2012 11:58 Mr. Black wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 11:46 dsousa wrote:
Turning cookies off does not make you a pirate
The secret is out....if you turned off cookies and use incognito window in google chrome.... stream came in all good. Probably in any browser if you turned off cookies, the pay wall wouldn't come up.
You didn't know? Sorry, guess you never had to build a website before :D
So, that's why I'm not a thief, I'm just familiar with my browser features!
The secret is out....if you snuck into a house and didn't trigger the alarm.... they were lying there helpless. Probably at any house if you didn't trip the motion detector, the alarm wouldn't go off. You didn't know? Sorry, guess you never had to rape and murder family before :D So that's why I'm not a multiple murder/rapist, I'm just familiar with burglar alarms.
Yeah because not being able to shell out 20$ for a SC2 event and then managing to find a wormhole to watch the event for free is clearly comparable to murdering and raping.
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On February 27 2012 12:07 Mr. Black wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 11:54 foxSC wrote:On February 27 2012 11:53 Astro-Penguin wrote:On February 27 2012 11:42 dsousa wrote:On February 27 2012 11:35 Kharnage wrote:On February 27 2012 11:25 windsupernova wrote:
Really people should not be angry at the people who watched MLG for free due to the cookie bug. It was MLGs own damn fault their system didn't work. It does suck for people like me who payed and I certainly hope MLG makes up for this somehow.
But its MLGs fault they didn't lock the door and people could "sneak in" and watch for free.Starcraft isn't some kind of basic necessity though so I don't know why some people act as if it was their right to be able to watch it for free though... especially since as many of you have said there is tons of free content so no need to try to cheat MLgs moronic system Fuck off. That's like saying you shouldn't be angry if someone cheats at SC2 cause it's blizzards fault for not making the game secure enough. They know it's the wrong thing to do and yet do it anyway, that is the definition of evil right there. Wrong is when you do tangible damage to tangible things. Not when your computer interprets bits sent to it via a url. I had a great MLG weekend, and I still have $20 in my pocket :D Probably some guy guy laid by 2 chicks while watching the stream for free...... do you hate him even more? The FACTS IS: You didn't have to pay to watch MLG! You did. You decided to.... don't be mad at the people smart enough to know that the pay wall would be made of paper . Never knew people were actually this ignorant In my eyes hes smarter than you. He got for free what you paid for. There's a moral philosophy you can feel good about. Everything for you, nothing for others. Whoever steals the most with the least effort is the smartest. Everything belongs to everyone, except for the people who actually make everything--they only get paid by the suckers.
like it or not, thats how the world works.
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I didn't pay. I found the workaround on Saturday and watched most of it that way. I still stand where I did before the weekend and say that $10 was a reasonable price. Also if your system has such an easy was to get around it that takes 0 additional effort to get it for free its a bad system.
Edit: I also feel kinda bad for the people that payed. Oh well, their loss - its not me so I don't really give a shit.
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On February 27 2012 12:01 Tula wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 11:53 MasterKush wrote:On February 27 2012 11:47 Tula wrote:On February 27 2012 11:40 TheSir wrote:On February 27 2012 11:35 Kharnage wrote:On February 27 2012 11:25 windsupernova wrote:
Really people should not be angry at the people who watched MLG for free due to the cookie bug. It was MLGs own damn fault their system didn't work. It does suck for people like me who payed and I certainly hope MLG makes up for this somehow.
But its MLGs fault they didn't lock the door and people could "sneak in" and watch for free.Starcraft isn't some kind of basic necessity though so I don't know why some people act as if it was their right to be able to watch it for free though... especially since as many of you have said there is tons of free content so no need to try to cheat MLgs moronic system Fuck off. That's like saying you shouldn't be angry if someone cheats at SC2 cause it's blizzards fault for not making the game secure enough. They know it's the wrong thing to do and yet do it anyway, that is the definition of evil right there. lol thats doesn't make any sence. Cheating is something which isn't allowed, watching a stream which the owners give away for free is totally legitm nothing wrong with that. Watching re-streams is wrong, watching the original is not. And btw why do you care so much? watching a stream which the owner covers with a paywall by using a workaround (even if it is very easy to do and commonplace) is the very definition of wrong. Are you really that stupid? Let me give you an analogy, the nearest cinema near you doesn't have alarmed emergency exits (for whatever reason), do you think it is okay to have a friend open that door for you and 10 others and simply walk in? Fuck no. You either pay or you don't get to watch the movie. Frankly this gloating on TL disgusts me, and the fact that the mods aren't handing out bans left and right really shows how far this website has fallen. Not really, it just shows you that the majority of the community can't afford the luxury of dropping $20 on random events like this. Then the people who can afford it AND actually did pay, come in here throwing out judgement calls to make themselves feel better about spending money on something they didn't necessarily have to. blablablabla I make judgement calls not because i need to feel better, I feel my 20 bucks have been well spent on a great tournament, and i certainly got more enjoyment out of them than i would have if i had gone to the cinema. Wether i need to spend them or not also really doesn't matter, because unlike the majority of this thread i seem to be a law abiding person. I buy my music, i buy my PC games and hell yes if i want to watch MLG i buy my Gold ticket or PPV ticket. You should be very thankfull people like me still exist because otherwise you would not be listening to music or playing video games much longer (in fact the piracy bubble around 2005 killed quite a few major developers if you can remember that far back). If you think MLG isn't worth 20 bucks (=cannot afford it) that is your call, but that does not give you the right to pirate it.
Except I didn't pirate it, I didn't watch it all... based on the sole premise that they were charging $20 for it, and I can afford it. I didn't bother looking for re-streams or finding out about cookie/session exploits. I had plenty of other stuff to do this weekend so I did that instead.
But hey, apparently I should be grateful that "people like you" exist...
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I watched for free, but might consider paying next time since the event was pretty good.
For 10$, I'll pay I guess. By allowing people that didn't want to pay they may get more customers next time as they know what they are gonna pay for now.
It's not that bad after all.
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On February 27 2012 12:07 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 12:02 MasterKush wrote:
Nobody is addressing the bigger issue in this thread... eSports isn't ready to be monetized in the form of PPV.
Instead we have a flame war with people who have disposable income versus those who don't. What is the point in discussing wether someone is a pirate or not? You could change the title of this thread to "How did you watch [Insert Film Name]?" and you'd get exactly the same debate going on. how do you know? wheres your data? where your experiments? wheres your evidence? wheres your PROOF? you have no proof, the only evidence we have is winter arena which was aparently a big hit, big enough of a hit that sundance thought "hmm with a bit of tweaking this could work" so obviously we ARE ready for some tournaments to be PPV, will the next tourny be 20$? probably not, will the paywall be so easily bypassed? certainly not
I wouldn't count those chickens hatched just yet. Noscript/Greasemonkey does amazing things. We'll see when the next one rolls around.
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On February 27 2012 12:05 foxSC wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 12:04 di3alot wrote:On February 27 2012 11:54 foxSC wrote:On February 27 2012 11:53 Astro-Penguin wrote:On February 27 2012 11:42 dsousa wrote:On February 27 2012 11:35 Kharnage wrote:On February 27 2012 11:25 windsupernova wrote:
Really people should not be angry at the people who watched MLG for free due to the cookie bug. It was MLGs own damn fault their system didn't work. It does suck for people like me who payed and I certainly hope MLG makes up for this somehow.
But its MLGs fault they didn't lock the door and people could "sneak in" and watch for free.Starcraft isn't some kind of basic necessity though so I don't know why some people act as if it was their right to be able to watch it for free though... especially since as many of you have said there is tons of free content so no need to try to cheat MLgs moronic system Fuck off. That's like saying you shouldn't be angry if someone cheats at SC2 cause it's blizzards fault for not making the game secure enough. They know it's the wrong thing to do and yet do it anyway, that is the definition of evil right there. Wrong is when you do tangible damage to tangible things. Not when your computer interprets bits sent to it via a url. I had a great MLG weekend, and I still have $20 in my pocket :D Probably some guy guy laid by 2 chicks while watching the stream for free...... do you hate him even more? The FACTS IS: You didn't have to pay to watch MLG! You did. You decided to.... don't be mad at the people smart enough to know that the pay wall would be made of paper . Never knew people were actually this ignorant In my eyes hes smarter than you. He got for free what you paid for. smarter rly? do you rly. think the only reason why i choose to pay for it its because im stupid. Yes, yes i do. why else pay for something you can get for free? also, dont feed me straight lines please haha
because its the right thing to do. because i like to support MLG.
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On February 27 2012 11:54 foxSC wrote:
In my eyes hes smarter than you. He got for free what you paid for.
No need to be smart, some nice gentleman from MLG even posted the workaround cause it's was supposing to fix another problem. I even reacted on it that it wasn't smart to post that but i said this earlier in another topic he didn't care or didn't understand in his reaction to that.
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Wether i need to spend them or not also really doesn't matter, because unlike the majority of this thread i seem to be a law abiding person. I buy my music, i buy my PC games and hell yes if i want to watch MLG i buy my Gold ticket or PPV ticket. You should be very thankfull people like me still exist because otherwise you would not be listening to music or playing video games much longer (in fact the piracy bubble around 2005 killed quite a few major developers if you can remember that far back).
Downloading copyrighted content isn't illegal in Canada as long as I don't resell, so I to, am a law abiding citizen.
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EPT
