|
Discussing the controversy and stating your opinions in a constructive way is fine, but there will be bans for any player/organization bashing without anything to substantiate it. |
On January 19 2012 22:25 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 17:01 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On January 19 2012 15:47 StarStruck wrote:
He might not have signed the dotted line yet, but there's hard evidence that AlivE was negotiating with Fnatic while still on contract with TSL.
That is tampering and it's been going on forever when it comes to the Western teams. -_-
Guys like Lee never dealt with it before. He never had to put up with that shit during his BW tenure.
Contracts basically mean shit in the West. You think KeSPA would put up with that shit? Fuck no. Should teams have to have eyes at the back of their heads instead of focusing on their day-to-day operation?
It's an unfortunate circumstance. The Korean teams just don't have the money. The West and travelling abroad is a much more appealing environment and yes, it gets their names out here. Much more opportunity; however, you should still abide by you contract until it expires. It's petty; unprofessional; selfish amongst other things. You want to be treated like professionals? Start acting like it. This post is highly ironic. Allo Jonathan, Apparently very few people know what tampering means and can you blame them? Many are still students and they're so used to seeing this shit that they think its standard practice everywhere.  Anyone with a career would tell you otherwise. In my line of business we deal with this all the time. Hell, it's a constant battle for headhunters.
You really like digging holes, don't you StarStruck?
|
On January 19 2012 22:13 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 16:38 Angelbelow wrote:
There are no agents in Esports. The player is the agent. In sc2 there is no Kespa either.
I think EVENTUALLY both are necessary but there's not enough money in the industry to justify either right now.
I don't think you read my post, or aLive's interview. aLive was already on the way out of TSL, he was offered to be release from his contract like Clide, jyp and killer were released (should you be pitchforking them as well, they didn't live out their contract?) Next, his intentions were to speak with coach Lee about the fnatic situation, but coach lee found out on his own and went to the media before actually talking to aLive about the situation.
I find it funny how people always put themselves in the shoes of players and hypothetically claim that they will act with 100% justice and honor. You're not alive and you're not in his situation. He clearly questioned TSL by saying that he saw them in a bad light and he was offered an opportunity to make a living as someone who plays video games. Theres no doubt that aLive is one of the best players in Korea, but thats only because he earned it with hours of hard work and sacrifice! If hes getting an opportunity to make him and his families life better, then he fucking earned it.
It DOES matter if they haven't signed him because its not foul play and not illegal. Again, alive and fnatic had every intention to incorporate Lee into the talks but that didn't work out did it?
You talk about the principle of living out your contract AND then you say that no one wants an unmotivated player and that they should be released or transferred.. well which is it? Is a player allowed to get out of his contract or not? Alive didn't want to be apart of TSL anymore so are you saying that he should honor his contract out of principle or should he be released for not wanting to be there and potentially becoming a cancer?
Also, why you're so heavily against the fnatic/alive situation but calmly justifying coach Lee snooping for information and breaking the trust between him as his players is beyond me. IMO, him going behind a players back and reading their private messages is a clear act of the dishonor and breaking the basic principles of being a coach and a manager. Double standard from you?
What can TSL do? Well if they're just the victim of a serious of unfortunate events, then they can't really do anything but pray. But I don't really believe in being lucky or unlucky. I think the history of how TSL has functioned show inconsistencies in their management and in their leadership. No shit? My point still stands. You want be treated like a professional? You man up and act like it skippy. What do you think I mean by Big Brother? If you are going to continue to shit where you sleep then be prepared for impending onslaught. Unlike most TL members I read everything and I even made mention to it. Once again you fail to debunk what I said. He was STILL under contract. Just because he took his ball and went home doesn't mean he's allowed to do whatever the heck he wants. He has to wait for it to expire. People get laid off, or take leave all the time in ANY setting and guess what? In many cases, they aren't allowed to compete for certain amount of time until after the contract expires. It has all sorts of names like a non-compete clause, severance package, etc. The media always finds out. If you looked at my Toronto example, you would notice that it was actually the media you spun it. One way or another it will get around. You can say anything after the fact. Of course he was going to talk to Lee before it was all said and done? You know how easy it is to say something after it already happened? Don't be ridiculous. The example I gave you is common sense. Smarten up. If you want to be treated accordingly you got to show class. I know about those situations because I was in them. No. If someone is unhappy you part ways. The mistake here is they didn't part ways from the contract. They did a half-ass job of it. You either: a) terminate the contract by getting rid of them b) transfer them to another team as soon as possible Alive and TSL did neither. He was still under contract yet only left the facilities. This isn't good enough. In other words, they're both responisble. From the sound of it, it doesn't sound like you have a career. I see these lawsuits all the time and they're in every line of business. You are aware, that it is standard practice that companies monitor employees emails and work computers? Right? They make sure they're doing their jobs. I find it incredibly amusing that Lee somehow managed to crack Alive's conversations. Like I said, if there's a problem in my dressing room. I get to the bottom of it asap. It's all about having a good eye. There really isn't much they can do unless they want to win a self-esteem battle and send a message to every other organization out there. Like I said, we're talking about very, very small compensation. Sure, they can get their legal fees paid for as well, but there really isn't much steam here. Lee can just wait it out for Big Brother and let them handle policy. It won't be long until they make their presence felt and if you think they are going to stand for that shit think again. They will be protecting their assets and talent: not in our house. Right now the Western teams are making all the moves. If Big Brother wants a piece of the pie. They will take a pretty darn big chunk of it and the ball will be in their court.
Wow KanoCoke was right, your are beginning to look like a waste of time. But lets try one more time since I'm bored.
A few things, did my post offend you? I read it again and I have no idea why it would. But you did dodge all my double standard question so I don't even know if you read the post again. I don't think your "media" example is relevant because what the media would eventually find out is that alive was transferred to fnatic after talking with coach lee (the original intent with no foul play.) And NOT fnatic stole alive.
They didn't make a mistake, NO contract was signed. Because there are no agents in esports, the player is the agent. The player(s) are the ones that ultimately care about themselves first and not the team. Therefore, a coach or manager of team would have too much of a conflict of interest to properly represent their own players (or asset) in contract negotiations. Also, its important to note that before fnatic, (and alive for that matter) committed to signing a contract together, they want to get Lee involved. Which would lead to the appropriate avenues of a player transfer.
Your right about alive and TSL failing to terminate the contracts, but the point is that they never had the chance to. (Again, if you read Alive interview, he states that Lee went public before they could talk.)
The standard of practice where companies monitor work email is standard. I covered that earlier in this thread or in the interview thread. But they are not allowed to monitor personal emails, or private chat programs, only work emails and they have to right to remove such programs but not read the messages within.
Btw, would Big Brother stand for this? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=304512
Or are you going to ignore that link as well?
____________________________________________________________________________________________
Honestly, your response was piss poor and you either repeated the same points or went off on a tangent. If your next response is of poor quality again I'm not going to bother responding.
|
On January 19 2012 22:46 Emperor_Earth wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 22:25 StarStruck wrote:On January 19 2012 17:01 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On January 19 2012 15:47 StarStruck wrote:
He might not have signed the dotted line yet, but there's hard evidence that AlivE was negotiating with Fnatic while still on contract with TSL.
That is tampering and it's been going on forever when it comes to the Western teams. -_-
Guys like Lee never dealt with it before. He never had to put up with that shit during his BW tenure.
Contracts basically mean shit in the West. You think KeSPA would put up with that shit? Fuck no. Should teams have to have eyes at the back of their heads instead of focusing on their day-to-day operation?
It's an unfortunate circumstance. The Korean teams just don't have the money. The West and travelling abroad is a much more appealing environment and yes, it gets their names out here. Much more opportunity; however, you should still abide by you contract until it expires. It's petty; unprofessional; selfish amongst other things. You want to be treated like professionals? Start acting like it. This post is highly ironic. Allo Jonathan, Apparently very few people know what tampering means and can you blame them? Many are still students and they're so used to seeing this shit that they think its standard practice everywhere. Anyone with a career would tell you otherwise. In my line of business we deal with this all the time. Hell, it's a constant battle for headhunters. You really like digging holes, don't you StarStruck?
The only holes I see around here are with the bloody system that everyone seems to be content with.
It goes for everyone? I'm pretty sure I made that clear.
Okay, so it's abundantly clear now. You don't know what tampering means. Even mentioning a player that you are interested in can cause grievance as I've shown in that article.
|
Why does this always happen.
I swear it's only FXO that manages to deal with koreans without screwing everything up. I suppose TL as well but they have had people living in the same house to make sure everything is clear I guess.
|
On January 19 2012 22:51 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 22:46 Emperor_Earth wrote:On January 19 2012 22:25 StarStruck wrote:On January 19 2012 17:01 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On January 19 2012 15:47 StarStruck wrote:
He might not have signed the dotted line yet, but there's hard evidence that AlivE was negotiating with Fnatic while still on contract with TSL.
That is tampering and it's been going on forever when it comes to the Western teams. -_-
Guys like Lee never dealt with it before. He never had to put up with that shit during his BW tenure.
Contracts basically mean shit in the West. You think KeSPA would put up with that shit? Fuck no. Should teams have to have eyes at the back of their heads instead of focusing on their day-to-day operation?
It's an unfortunate circumstance. The Korean teams just don't have the money. The West and travelling abroad is a much more appealing environment and yes, it gets their names out here. Much more opportunity; however, you should still abide by you contract until it expires. It's petty; unprofessional; selfish amongst other things. You want to be treated like professionals? Start acting like it. This post is highly ironic. Allo Jonathan, Apparently very few people know what tampering means and can you blame them? Many are still students and they're so used to seeing this shit that they think its standard practice everywhere. Anyone with a career would tell you otherwise. In my line of business we deal with this all the time. Hell, it's a constant battle for headhunters. You really like digging holes, don't you StarStruck? The only holes I see around here are with the bloody system that everyone seems to be content with. It goes for everyone? I'm pretty sure I made that clear.
I would advise you to make sure you are semiknowledgeable on both the subject matter and basic contract law but I don't think you take kindly to advice. It's okay. I'll just hand you another shovel. Yours seems to be well worn.
|
On January 19 2012 22:25 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 17:01 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On January 19 2012 15:47 StarStruck wrote:
He might not have signed the dotted line yet, but there's hard evidence that AlivE was negotiating with Fnatic while still on contract with TSL.
That is tampering and it's been going on forever when it comes to the Western teams. -_-
Guys like Lee never dealt with it before. He never had to put up with that shit during his BW tenure.
Contracts basically mean shit in the West. You think KeSPA would put up with that shit? Fuck no. Should teams have to have eyes at the back of their heads instead of focusing on their day-to-day operation?
It's an unfortunate circumstance. The Korean teams just don't have the money. The West and travelling abroad is a much more appealing environment and yes, it gets their names out here. Much more opportunity; however, you should still abide by you contract until it expires. It's petty; unprofessional; selfish amongst other things. You want to be treated like professionals? Start acting like it. This post is highly ironic. Allo Jonathan, Apparently very few people know what tampering means and can you blame them? Many are still students and they're so used to seeing this shit that they think its standard practice everywhere. Anyone with a career would tell you otherwise. In my line of business we deal with this all the time. Hell, it's a constant battle for headhunters. You seem to feel strongly about these things but I can't seem to find any arguments for why it's necessarily bad that for example alive and fnatic talked to each other in your posts.
|
On January 19 2012 22:53 Emperor_Earth wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 22:51 StarStruck wrote:On January 19 2012 22:46 Emperor_Earth wrote:On January 19 2012 22:25 StarStruck wrote:On January 19 2012 17:01 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On January 19 2012 15:47 StarStruck wrote:
He might not have signed the dotted line yet, but there's hard evidence that AlivE was negotiating with Fnatic while still on contract with TSL.
That is tampering and it's been going on forever when it comes to the Western teams. -_-
Guys like Lee never dealt with it before. He never had to put up with that shit during his BW tenure.
Contracts basically mean shit in the West. You think KeSPA would put up with that shit? Fuck no. Should teams have to have eyes at the back of their heads instead of focusing on their day-to-day operation?
It's an unfortunate circumstance. The Korean teams just don't have the money. The West and travelling abroad is a much more appealing environment and yes, it gets their names out here. Much more opportunity; however, you should still abide by you contract until it expires. It's petty; unprofessional; selfish amongst other things. You want to be treated like professionals? Start acting like it. This post is highly ironic. Allo Jonathan, Apparently very few people know what tampering means and can you blame them? Many are still students and they're so used to seeing this shit that they think its standard practice everywhere. Anyone with a career would tell you otherwise. In my line of business we deal with this all the time. Hell, it's a constant battle for headhunters. You really like digging holes, don't you StarStruck? The only holes I see around here are with the bloody system that everyone seems to be content with. It goes for everyone? I'm pretty sure I made that clear. I would advise you to make sure you are semiknowledgeable on both the subject matter and basic contract law but I don't think you take kindly to advice. It's okay. I'll just hand you another shovel. Yours seems to be well worn.
Stay in school.
I'm going to repeat myself once more and hopefully some people will get it. This doesn't apply only for sports. So throw everything you think you know about those industries out the door. It applies to every business where there's competition.
If you noticed I'm putting equal blame on every party. I'm not singling out one person. I'm well aware of what happened in the past with TSL thank you very much. It's a shame that these stories keep cropping up, but they will die down soon enough once KeSPA starts running their own events.
Angel,
You still have to terminate the contract before you even decide to open up the lines. That's the whole point.
|
I don't know who to believe here. But it seems very convenient for Fnatic to have these circumstances occur the way they did.
|
*shakes head*
No, that isn't Big Brother. I thought I made it obvious, but allow me to clarify. It stands for an Association you've probably heard of before. Like I said, I'm very well aware of the TSL circus. Within those 10k posts you will notice I've spoken more than I'd like to such bullshit. Why the heck you think I replied to one guy with only 'indeed?' I choose to focus on the problem at hand and as you can see I've placed blame on both parties.
Dan has always been outspoken about coach Lee. He doesn't like the guy and that's fine. That's all I'm going to say about that.
|
On January 19 2012 23:19 StarStruck wrote:
*shakes head*
No, that isn't Big Brother. I thought I made it obvious, but allow me to clarify. It stands for an Association you've probably heard of before. Like I said, I'm very well aware of the TSL circus. Within those 10k posts you will notice I've spoken more than I'd like to such bullshit. Why the heck you think I replied to one guy with only 'indeed?' I choose to focus on the problem at hand and as you can see I've placed blame on both parties.
Dan has always been outspoken about coach Lee. He doesn't like the guy and that's fine. That's all I'm going to say about that.
Fair enough. But your original post was full of inconsistencies and mistakes. You seemed to place all the blame on fnatic/alive even going as far as saying that Coach Lee never dealt with this and wont have to in the future. Then you say contracts don't mean shit when fnatic and aLive intended on going through the proper channels. Then you claim that Korean teams dont have any money - while true in general, not true for TSL. Then you say that he should abide by his contract until it expires even though it would be unprofessional of Lee to force him to stay after saying that he can leave. It was almost as if you were making excuses for Lee. That's a big reason why I wanted to have this discussion with you.
If you really feel the way you do this the latest post then for the most part we are in agreement. I agree that burning bridges cab be a bad thing. I agree that the situation could have been better handled by all parties, but especially Coach Lee. And in the context of this situation, aLive should get the fuck out of TSL and more importantly get away from Coach Lee. The dude sounds like an absolute cancer as a leader, manager and a person. And I understand that Rekrul is outspoken about Lee and that he doesn't like him, but his story is consistent with my opinion of Lee. Lee's behavior during the PuMa situation was already alarming. Since then its only gotten worse. Even Milkis, who played a major role in the puma incident is now backing up what rekrul said: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=304512¤tpage=25#485. Having that "good eye" means to be observant, its not hard to see that Lee's behavior is consistent with the story rekrul presented.
"Terminate the contract before you decide to open up the lines" is too black and white for sc2. It'll never work if theres no one to enforce this rule and nothing would ever get done without middlemen (player agents.) You're trying to compare established competitive sports with likes of starcraft and that's bullshit. SC2 should be striving to be similar to competitive sports but they aren't remotely the same right now. As of right now, the best way for player transfers to work is for teams to go directly to the player directly to gauge interest. Going to the manager or coach is not appropriate because there's a conflict of interest. Regarding this situation, again, if you read alive's or fnatics statement, you would realize that they both wanted alive to be a free agent before any contract negotiations took place. So alive wanted to talk with coach Lee but he cried to the media before that could happen.
Your "Indeed" was well after Jinro called your post ironic, community members calling you out in this thread, and rekrul posting his experience (with much support). Was it because you realized you were defending someone who was dishonorable to begin with or were you really blaming all sides the entire time? You don't have to answer that, just know that you're on the right side now.
|
Why hasn't this thread been closed? Nothing but dickwaving for pages and pages now.
|
On January 19 2012 22:56 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 22:53 Emperor_Earth wrote:On January 19 2012 22:51 StarStruck wrote:On January 19 2012 22:46 Emperor_Earth wrote:On January 19 2012 22:25 StarStruck wrote:On January 19 2012 17:01 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On January 19 2012 15:47 StarStruck wrote:
He might not have signed the dotted line yet, but there's hard evidence that AlivE was negotiating with Fnatic while still on contract with TSL.
That is tampering and it's been going on forever when it comes to the Western teams. -_-
Guys like Lee never dealt with it before. He never had to put up with that shit during his BW tenure.
Contracts basically mean shit in the West. You think KeSPA would put up with that shit? Fuck no. Should teams have to have eyes at the back of their heads instead of focusing on their day-to-day operation?
It's an unfortunate circumstance. The Korean teams just don't have the money. The West and travelling abroad is a much more appealing environment and yes, it gets their names out here. Much more opportunity; however, you should still abide by you contract until it expires. It's petty; unprofessional; selfish amongst other things. You want to be treated like professionals? Start acting like it. This post is highly ironic. Allo Jonathan, Apparently very few people know what tampering means and can you blame them? Many are still students and they're so used to seeing this shit that they think its standard practice everywhere. Anyone with a career would tell you otherwise. In my line of business we deal with this all the time. Hell, it's a constant battle for headhunters. You really like digging holes, don't you StarStruck? The only holes I see around here are with the bloody system that everyone seems to be content with. It goes for everyone? I'm pretty sure I made that clear. I would advise you to make sure you are semiknowledgeable on both the subject matter and basic contract law but I don't think you take kindly to advice. It's okay. I'll just hand you another shovel. Yours seems to be well worn. Stay in school. I'm going to repeat myself once more and hopefully some people will get it. This doesn't apply only for sports. So throw everything you think you know about those industries out the door. It applies to every business where there's competition. If you noticed I'm putting equal blame on every party. I'm not singling out one person. I'm well aware of what happened in the past with TSL thank you very much. It's a shame that these stories keep cropping up, but they will die down soon enough once KeSPA starts running their own events. Angel, You still have to terminate the contract before you even decide to open up the lines. That's the whole point.
Unfortunately, we can't just throw everything we "think" we know out, as it is useful in showing how incorrect and terrible your beliefs or "truths" are. As someone said before, since players don't have agents that are only focused on the sole interest of the player and not the team, contracts can't have clauses that prevent competition from contacting the players. I believe Sir Scoots said it the best "If I'm Slim Shady over here, Greg might not ever hear that request (refering to if a team contacted him before Idra) because he's my guy". Players, or agents if they have them, have to be contacted first, not necessarily about contract details, but to inform the player that they are interested in him/her. Then it should go to the team, if the player is also interested, to discuss details about new contracts and transfer.
|
i just want to know why we have different stories from different people. i mean the truths the truth isnt it?
|
On January 19 2012 22:52 Deadeight wrote:
Why does this always happen.
I swear it's only FXO that manages to deal with koreans without screwing everything up. I suppose TL as well but they have had people living in the same house to make sure everything is clear I guess.
Actually I think its just TSL that cant seem to deal with it. Even when foreign korean relations have been broken in the past (QIM), nothing to this scale occurred. ST, Slayers, MVP and OGS all have relations with foreign teams (even Prime in some sense), and they do not have any problems.
|
Yeah, I have to admit that TSL has been getting crapped on like this lately. I hope they figured out what had happened. Pretty insane if you ask me : |
|
always Drama with TSL, when interviewed by people such as artosis i always get a good feeling about Coach Lee as a person, he seems positive friendly and hard working. However there has been so much drama with him and TSL players over the last year im really starting to question him, surely this much negativity and drama cant be just bad luck, it feels to me like he's attracting all this drama somehow
|
Hmm. After reading through the intervening 20 or so pages of posts from the last time I checked in...
Yes, this is getting silly. Maybe the thread should be closed.
Yes I have low post count. It's because I have a job, and sadly it is not one that lets me post a lot or play starcraft as much as I would like. But I do enjoy eSports.
Yes, everyone involved has a share of blame. While I disagree with FXOBoss regarding publicity being the only way to get anything done, he DOES actually run a team, so he's probably got a better handle on the realities of the semi-casual grouping of organizations that makes up eSports. So maybe, while I think it shouldn't be, it probably is at the moment. But I also think FXOBoss would react considerably better to the bare bones version of this story than Coach Lee did - even if he was unhappy about the discussion between coach and player that took place. (IE, I don't think he would've gone nuts to the media after telling a player that things were okay - not without a lot of provocation, at least. Maybe it was here in this case, I dunno.)
eSports has 99 problems, but b***hing about eSports isn't one. What's that old saw? "Any publicity is good. Even bad publicity."
I have an idea for how to at least start an infrastructure for professional players, but it's not a "top-down" model. All of the different eSports companies can't dictate rules to each other. So when people say "GOM should..." or "MLG should..." that's all nice, but they can't set up the overarching organization to deal with things because each has its own seperate owners, interests, and guidelines (as well as applicable laws for their differing countries). If there was anyone that actually had the "oomph" to dictate rules to all organizations and players, it's Blizzard... and we sure as HELL don't want them to do it. ("Oh, you don't want to follow the rules? No license for you!" would be a very effective club, you know.)
Because of the extremely distributed and decentralized nature of this generation of suddenly globalizing eSports (for SC2), I think you'd have to do it from a bottom-up approach. There's only one thing that is both present in every tournament/event, and which you must have to have said tournament/event, other than Computers, Internets, and Blizzard licensing. Think about it. Maybe I'll revisit this in a thread... maybe not; I don't think I've got the experience or standing to do so but I really think it could be an answer.
|
|
|
That would be great news. I will definitely be rooting for him tomorrow.
|
ToD released a blog today, and he briefly touches about the facts of this subject. I'm not saying that what ToD is saying is completely neutral, but I think it's very relevant.
The deal with TSL almost came through but at the last minute our management decided not to make it and things went wrong from there. TSL coach was extremely angry with fnatic ( even with me although i basically had no say in this whole affair as i'm just a player for fnatic ) I tried to talk to him, apparently he thought that the partnership was false from the start and we just used as an excuse to get close to aLive and recruit him ( either that or he was just really upset and just said random stuff )
What apparently happened is that aLive told Brian ( one of fnatic's translaters who worked a lot around Rain and goes with him to MLGs etc ) that he wanted to join a non-Korean team, they didnt discuss any figures and just as me Brian does not have any power in fnatic, so he just passed on the message but no formal proposition was made. TSL coach ended up reading the logs from aLive's skype ( don't ask me how ) and snapped out of it
I can understand what it may have looked like but there was some overreactions from the involved parts and the community in my opinion, ofcourse we would be interested in recruiting aLive but i dont think our team's management meant to "steal" him as it was said fnatic is one of those multigaming that has been around for the longest time and is really respected in the esports community, that's not how things are done here.
I know our management have been trying our best to resolve the issue, i tried to get involved and give advice on what was best to do, and apparently an agreement was found as in a substantial transfer fee will be paid to coach Lee to transfer aLive from TSL to fnatic so i guess we kind of have an happy ending there.
And i would also like to add that it makes me sad people hate on coach Lee on forums, he devoted his life to the team he loves and puts so much work into it, he's a passionate man and a nice person, he never treated me wrong apart for geting really upset at me when things started going south but he then wished me luck on the next day.
I hope people can look past the mistakes that have been made and support both fnatic & TSL, and i wish the best of luck to TSL!
I quoted the relevant parts, but you can read the whole blog here: http://www.fnatic.com/blogs/YoanMerlo/3292/Happenings-in-January.html
Should be noted that as team captain to Fnatic, ToD has a say in terms of new recruits.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
