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This whole situation made GOM a more important tournament than MLG - even if its no the truth.
I dont think MLG should ve bent themselves to GOM like they did.
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On December 16 2011 08:21 IMStyle wrote:
I don't know how there are so many people who still support what Naniwa has done. But this is proof that his probe rush Fuck you Gom play is indeed killing esports. if he didn't do that, some of you retards won't be openly saying that you won't be buying anymore Gom passes.
Gom is a business and organization who's goal is to deliver quality games to its fans. They have the RIGHT to deny whichever player they want. They can change rules however and whenever they want to. Stop trying to defend an immature socially awkward kid who basically told Gom to Fuck off by throwing the game..
I don't know how there are so many people who still support what GOM has done. But this is a proof that their fuck you MLG, fuck you Naniwa, fuck you fans actions are indeed killing esports. If they told something to MLG/fans, nobody would say anything against them.
See what I did there?
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On December 16 2011 07:54 JoeSchmoe wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 07:52 LorDo wrote:On December 16 2011 07:46 leungwk01 wrote:On December 16 2011 07:44 LorDo wrote:On December 16 2011 07:37 Govou wrote:On December 16 2011 07:36 LorDo wrote:On December 16 2011 07:10 Bluemagic2121 wrote:
They just didn't communicate to MLG about change in Seeding spot, that is all.
and this whatever change Gom happened just about a month after the Providence, so change happened before Blizzard cup.
and what I don't understand from a couple of people out there keep saying Gom did dirty work and what not,
Did they take away code S spot for no reason? you think they just took it away from naniwa for no reason?
THEY DID NOT CHANGE THE RULE BECAUSE OF CHILDISH ACT OF NANIWA but coincidentally the change for 2012 was ALREADY MADE, even thought a lot of you out there sees or feels like the change was made on the next day after Naniwa's act.
And also like MLG said, the power is in Gom's hand, not from MLG. WITH THE NEW RULE MADE BEFORE BLIZZ CUP,
Gom was to GIVE code S spot as A GIFT, but Naniwa with CHILDish ACT BLEW IT AWAY, this. why is this so hard to understand?????????????????????
ABOVE im just saying as in facts,
now below is my opinion.
ALSO in Providence, Naniwa only won 3 Matches, 3 Matches to get into the final. because of some type seeding system which MLG has that I can not understand.
I was actually expecting the same format just like any other MLG, from pool game and on.
GUYS, 3 Matches to get into the final, JUST 3 Matches. and also he only had to win 2 GAMES! whereas leenock had to win 4.
and with Naniwa's history in code A, where he never passed above round 16 or 32, whichever is the lowest, is 0-10 or something.
in my opinion, the rule change Gom, even though it was last minute change and happened before blizz cup, was REALLY GOOD.
becuase Naniwa is no where near, in skill wise, to compete in Code S
Could you provide sources for your "facts" since "the new rule made before blizz cup" (in all caps) wasn't made public until after said cup, therefore one might think it was because what happened in the cup that triggered this response from GOM. http://www.gomtv.net/forum/view.gom?topicid=208740&cid=0&kind=8http://www.thisisgame.com/board/view.php?id=940944&board=0&category=13438&subcategory=&page=4&best=&searchmode=title&search=&orderby=&token=watch the date of both article GOM has other sources on their own site that says he should get a Code S spot. There's nothing there saying "Hey, btw we changed the deal with MLG, Providence winner does NOT get a spot" The other one is a news-site with question-marks all over it. It says it is unclear if he receives one. So.. I wouldn't scream about facts when it's actually extremely unclear if they even had a plan that excluded the MLG seed up until 2 days ago. When your own partner had no idea about the switch you can't really say they've been clear with it. Source? http://www.gomtv.net/2011gslsponsors3/news/65291" Pro Circuit Players Competing in the GSL At MLG Columbus, the Top 3 non-Korean finishers will each be placed into GSL Code A. At every 2011 Pro Circuit Live Competition after MLG Columbus, GSL placement will occur as follows: Code S status will be awarded to the highest placing player, regardless of country of origin, who doesn't already have Code S status. " also says: Show nested quote +
GSL Pro Players Competing on the MLG Pro Circuit
MLG will invite four Korean pro players to each Pro Circuit Live Competition.
These players will be placed directly into the Championship Pools, one into each Pool.
Their placement in the Pools will be determined by their GSL rank.
All travel and accommodation expenses for these players will be provided by MLG.
For MLG Columbus, we will also be inviting the winner of the CSN tournament, currently in progress. This player will be seeded into the Open Bracket, and their travel and accommodation expenses will be covered by CSN.
stop deliberately ignoring the facts.
What has that to do with anything? What are you implying, that MLG didn't fulfill their end because there was no pool play in Providence?
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On December 16 2011 08:18 Sandermatt wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 08:03 Skyreaper wrote:On December 16 2011 07:49 LorDo wrote:On December 16 2011 07:40 Bluemagic2121 wrote:On December 16 2011 07:36 LorDo wrote:On December 16 2011 07:10 Bluemagic2121 wrote:
They just didn't communicate to MLG about change in Seeding spot, that is all.
and this whatever change Gom happened just about a month after the Providence, so change happened before Blizzard cup.
and what I don't understand from a couple of people out there keep saying Gom did dirty work and what not,
Did they take away code S spot for no reason? you think they just took it away from naniwa for no reason?
THEY DID NOT CHANGE THE RULE BECAUSE OF CHILDISH ACT OF NANIWA but coincidentally the change for 2012 was ALREADY MADE, even thought a lot of you out there sees or feels like the change was made on the next day after Naniwa's act.
And also like MLG said, the power is in Gom's hand, not from MLG. WITH THE NEW RULE MADE BEFORE BLIZZ CUP,
Gom was to GIVE code S spot as A GIFT, but Naniwa with CHILDish ACT BLEW IT AWAY, this. why is this so hard to understand?????????????????????
ABOVE im just saying as in facts,
now below is my opinion.
ALSO in Providence, Naniwa only won 3 Matches, 3 Matches to get into the final. because of some type seeding system which MLG has that I can not understand.
I was actually expecting the same format just like any other MLG, from pool game and on.
GUYS, 3 Matches to get into the final, JUST 3 Matches. and also he only had to win 2 GAMES! whereas leenock had to win 4.
and with Naniwa's history in code A, where he never passed above round 16 or 32, whichever is the lowest, is 0-10 or something.
in my opinion, the rule change Gom, even though it was last minute change and happened before blizz cup, was REALLY GOOD.
becuase Naniwa is no where near, in skill wise, to compete in Code S
Could you provide sources for your "facts" since "the new rule made before blizz cup" (in all caps) wasn't made public until after said cup, therefore one might think it was because what happened in the cup that triggered this response from GOM. source is when they announced the new format for 2012 GSL, which of course had this changed along with it. you can search and check the date if you want. though I do understand that you find "when exactly this changed occured" suspicious, you are Swedish, no way im talking to biased person  STFU with the biased shit. It doesn't matter, GOM changed something without telling anyone, we don't know when they changed it, at all. Might have been pre Providence, or after Blizz Cup. We don't know. http://www.gomtv.net/forum/view.gom?topicid=208740&cid=0&kind=8http://www.gomtv.net/forum/view.gom?topicid=208740&cid=0&kind=8 http://www.thisisgame.com/board/view.php?id=940944&board=0&category=13438&subcategory=&page=4&best=&searchmode=title&search=&orderby=&token=Without telling anyone? Then how come there are people who knew that NaNiwa isn't granted Code S seed. GomTV never stated that NaNiwa was guaranteed Code S seed. It was MLG who falsely advertised others that Code S seed will be granted even though it was uncertain at the moment. They promised Cose S seeds for Providence in the initial deal, but altered it without informing MLG. Obviously the contract allowed GOMTV to do this, but now blaming MLG for falsely advertising it is wrong. By the way as far as I know MLG still payed for the travel of 4 koreans to providence, while they took back their part of the deal.
they didn't. MVP was paid for by Quantic. they also weren't seeded into championship brackets as promised on their part of the exchange. ridiculous how people are still blatantly ignoring the truth.
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Vatican City State582 Posts
Cold hard facts:
1. Naniwa *disrespected* the crowd for a hyped match (broke no rule as per the GOMTV statement clarified)
2. GOMTV CHANGED the prize without informing the involved parties - winner: Naniwa, partner: MLG (+ fans)
so, I guess GOMTV was the sole victim here, all the while Naniwa and MLG deserved it?????
LuLz @ hypocrisy XDD
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On December 16 2011 08:18 Govou wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 08:07 Tyrant0 wrote:On December 16 2011 07:58 Govou wrote:On December 16 2011 07:55 Tyrant0 wrote:On December 16 2011 07:51 darkscream wrote:
Man, people stick up for naniwa so much. He even admits he was in the wrong and will change his behavior accordingly, so why are people still talking shit about GomTV (Who by the way, are pretty much responsible for SC2 esport success, lending their brand and talent (tastosis) to other tournaments, etc). No one is saying he was right. What he did was wrong. What GOM did/is doing is much, much worse, and a vast overreaction to what was a trivial offense in the first place. And hop off the dicks of the Koreans; this isn't BW. a lot of posters said Naniwa did nothing wrong first. then they claimed GOM was changing the rule after the incident to punish Naniwa. then when those two are proven wrong, they are claiming GOM is at fault for the miscommunication and should be sued. IMO, it's clear who is the crybaby here. No, they said he broke no rules. What he did was wrong, but even banning a Korean player for the same offense is still insane. GOM definitely did stretch the rules, because it was a unique circumstance that shouldn't have existed in the first place. And the cry babies this entire time were the Koreans They went batshit crazy over something commonplace in the western scene. Naniwa admitted he was wrong, and they yanked the seed at the same time they made their BS controversial announcement. Naniwa was going to code S until the probe rush. It's only convenient GOM has NEVER announced the seeds, which only sounds like to me they intended to abuse this from the beginning, or they're incompetent/didn't see it coming. you are whitewashing the history. Go back to the threads and read countless 'there is nothing wrong with what Naniwa did, it was GOM's fault for meaningless game' GOM stretched the rule? I dont know if you ever follow any real news going on but companies and multi million dollar atheletes get sued and lose the case due to general clause like that. Finally I dont like to specifically include a race in this matter but since you did it, I'm assuming I can do this too. Swedes in this forum have switched their point of attack to GOM because Naniwa got canned for his unprofessionalism. Some of them said probe rushing is a 'legitimate strategy' and there was a chance 'Naniwa could have won' NO. watch the game again. Secondly, it was those people who went batshit crazy how Naniwa is being forced to apologize and he really doesnt mean it from the heart. Finally it doesnt even matter because doing such move in a televised game whether 'you' think it is appropriate or not is irrelevant. Naniwa should have been professional about it. I read couple progamers' comment who supported this and against this. Honestly, I dont consider those people a real progamer who thought they could a move his probe and not micro is a viable conduct in sponsored televised match.
It's really easy to read arguments defending Naniwa and interpret them as justification for what he did. Theres no other way when he's demonized so viciously. I've followed these threads pretty thoroughly. Just as many people praised his match as those demanding his head/perma ban from GSL.
GOM stretching a rule isn't justified by what the popular sports industry does, and rule comparisons should be grounds for a warning, IMO. All it declares is that you don't have an actual argument.
Wait. Isn't this why this all started? The Koreans went into an uproar over Naniwa's actions. Culture difference, etc. Isn't this entire debate an issue of different cultures? Get your head out of your ass. No one cares who you consider a progamer, nor does anyone care who Mr. Chae or assorted Korean progamers consider a progamer. Naniwa is a progamer. Match shouldn't have been televised in the first place.
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On December 16 2011 08:26 dacimvrl wrote:
Cold hard facts:
1. Naniwa *disrespected* the crowd for a hyped match
2. GOMTV CHANGED the prize without informing the involved parties - winner: Naniwa, partner: MLG (+ fans)
so, I guess GOMTV didn't do anything wrong, but Naniwa and MLG deserved it?????
LuLz @ D4B0 S74ND4RD5
woohoo let's blame GOMTV to oblivion for changing their prize. Because 8000+ comments of it wasn't enough.
oh the drama queens
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I don't think this really matters. Even if he was due a spot in the GSL because of Providence, that doesn't mean they couldn't take it away.
They probably didn't clarify because he was going to both Code S and the Blizz Cup initially. Should they have been more explicit about what they were doing with MLG prizes? Definitely, but they also couldn't have seen this coming. Plus getting to go to Blizzard Cup was still a great prize.
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On December 16 2011 08:28 Govou wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 08:26 dacimvrl wrote:
Cold hard facts:
1. Naniwa *disrespected* the crowd for a hyped match
2. GOMTV CHANGED the prize without informing the involved parties - winner: Naniwa, partner: MLG (+ fans)
so, I guess GOMTV didn't do anything wrong, but Naniwa and MLG deserved it?????
LuLz @ D4B0 S74ND4RD5 woohoo let's blame GOMTV to oblivion for changing their prize. Because 8000+ comments of it wasn't enough. oh the drama queens
I'm getting the feeling that your post disregards the time of events, which in this context is almost everything.
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On December 16 2011 08:26 dacimvrl wrote:
Cold hard facts:
1. Naniwa *disrespected* the crowd for a hyped match
2. GOMTV CHANGED the prize without informing the involved parties - winner: Naniwa, partner: MLG (+ fans)
so, I guess GOMTV didn't do anything wrong, but Naniwa and MLG deserved it?????
LuLz @ D4B0 S74ND4RD5
They never informed anyone? So they just invited naniwa to blizzardcup and he had no clue why, he thought it was because he was cute or something? I'm quite sure he KNEW why he was in blizzardcup, because the top 2 at MLG providence got that as their prize.
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all this talk about NaNiwa and GOM incident can now be resolved in ONE WAY!
ALL LEAGUES AND TOURNAMENTS SHALL NOW BE PLAYED ON THE MOON WHERE ALIENS WILL DECIDE THE FORMAT, PRIZES AND SEEDINGS.
any disrespectful act will result in total annihilation of the human race.
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Vatican City State582 Posts
On December 16 2011 08:28 Govou wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 08:26 dacimvrl wrote:
Cold hard facts:
1. Naniwa *disrespected* the crowd for a hyped match
2. GOMTV CHANGED the prize without informing the involved parties - winner: Naniwa, partner: MLG (+ fans)
so, I guess GOMTV didn't do anything wrong, but Naniwa and MLG deserved it?????
LuLz @ D4B0 S74ND4RD5 woohoo let's blame GOMTV to oblivion for changing their prize. Because 8000+ comments of it wasn't enough. oh the drama queens
woohoo let's defend GOMTV cuz Naniwa was the bad guy, bad bad bad!!
oh the righteous knights in shining armor!!
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Why does anyone speculate fault anymore?
Naniwa already admitted fault and has decided not to compete in the first season of 2012 GSL, even though he is allowed to go for Code A and he's staying in Korea.
The END?
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Vatican City State582 Posts
On December 16 2011 08:30 hunts wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 08:26 dacimvrl wrote:
Cold hard facts:
1. Naniwa *disrespected* the crowd for a hyped match
2. GOMTV CHANGED the prize without informing the involved parties - winner: Naniwa, partner: MLG (+ fans)
so, I guess GOMTV didn't do anything wrong, but Naniwa and MLG deserved it?????
LuLz @ D4B0 S74ND4RD5 They never informed anyone? So they just invited naniwa to blizzardcup and he had no clue why, he thought it was because he was cute or something? I'm quite sure he KNEW why he was in blizzardcup, because the top 2 at MLG providence got that as their prize.
yes, and this is precisely why according to MLG's statement, MLG totally KNEW about the change, right?
man, you should be a lawyer LuLz
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By the way, pro-gamers in GSL would consider revoking Code S from NaNiwa as a warning while all those NaNiwa fans consider it as a harsh punishment. If NaNiwa were to be in Slayers or IM, he surely would kicked out of GSL.
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On December 16 2011 08:26 Tyrant0 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 08:18 Govou wrote:On December 16 2011 08:07 Tyrant0 wrote:On December 16 2011 07:58 Govou wrote:On December 16 2011 07:55 Tyrant0 wrote:On December 16 2011 07:51 darkscream wrote:
Man, people stick up for naniwa so much. He even admits he was in the wrong and will change his behavior accordingly, so why are people still talking shit about GomTV (Who by the way, are pretty much responsible for SC2 esport success, lending their brand and talent (tastosis) to other tournaments, etc). No one is saying he was right. What he did was wrong. What GOM did/is doing is much, much worse, and a vast overreaction to what was a trivial offense in the first place. And hop off the dicks of the Koreans; this isn't BW. a lot of posters said Naniwa did nothing wrong first. then they claimed GOM was changing the rule after the incident to punish Naniwa. then when those two are proven wrong, they are claiming GOM is at fault for the miscommunication and should be sued. IMO, it's clear who is the crybaby here. No, they said he broke no rules. What he did was wrong, but even banning a Korean player for the same offense is still insane. GOM definitely did stretch the rules, because it was a unique circumstance that shouldn't have existed in the first place. And the cry babies this entire time were the Koreans They went batshit crazy over something commonplace in the western scene. Naniwa admitted he was wrong, and they yanked the seed at the same time they made their BS controversial announcement. Naniwa was going to code S until the probe rush. It's only convenient GOM has NEVER announced the seeds, which only sounds like to me they intended to abuse this from the beginning, or they're incompetent/didn't see it coming. you are whitewashing the history. Go back to the threads and read countless 'there is nothing wrong with what Naniwa did, it was GOM's fault for meaningless game' GOM stretched the rule? I dont know if you ever follow any real news going on but companies and multi million dollar atheletes get sued and lose the case due to general clause like that. Finally I dont like to specifically include a race in this matter but since you did it, I'm assuming I can do this too. Swedes in this forum have switched their point of attack to GOM because Naniwa got canned for his unprofessionalism. Some of them said probe rushing is a 'legitimate strategy' and there was a chance 'Naniwa could have won' NO. watch the game again. Secondly, it was those people who went batshit crazy how Naniwa is being forced to apologize and he really doesnt mean it from the heart. Finally it doesnt even matter because doing such move in a televised game whether 'you' think it is appropriate or not is irrelevant. Naniwa should have been professional about it. I read couple progamers' comment who supported this and against this. Honestly, I dont consider those people a real progamer who thought they could a move his probe and not micro is a viable conduct in sponsored televised match. It's really easy to read arguments defending Naniwa and interpret them as justification for what he did. Theres no other way when he's demonized so viciously. I've followed these threads pretty thoroughly. Just as many people praised his match as those demanding his head/perma ban from GSL. GOM stretching a rule isn't justified by what the popular sports industry does, and rule comparisons should be grounds for a warning, IMO. All it declares is that you don't have an actual argument. Wait. Isn't this why this all started? The Koreans went into an uproar over Naniwa's actions. Culture difference, etc. Isn't this entire debate an issue of different cultures? Get your head out of your ass. No one cares who you consider a progamer, nor does anyone care who Mr. Chae or assorted Korean progamers consider a progamer. Naniwa is a progamer. Match shouldn't have been televised in the first place.
well you seem to have shimmered down. Honestly, I think this arguing about minor stuff is not worth my and your time.
Anyway I went over to playXP and read koreans reaction through google translate.
It seems they are willing to forgive Naniwa if he is indeed a changed man. There are no irrational emiotional outbursts. I think we should just close book on Naniwa.
I didnt say my opinion mattered. Isnt' this forum what that is for? voicing your own opinion? I could say you act like your opinon matters though.
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On December 16 2011 08:30 nevercomingback wrote:
all this talk about NaNiwa and GOM incident can now be resolved in ONE WAY!
ALL LEAGUES AND TOURNAMENTS SHALL NOW BE PLAYED ON THE MOON WHERE ALIENS WILL DECIDE THE FORMAT, PRIZES AND SEEDINGS.
any disrespectful act will result in total annihilation of the human race.
The ping will be dreadful. 
I hope, that GOM tries to be a little more transparent about their tournaments in the future, especially when it concerns other tournaments. Could have saved them a large portion of the drama.
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On December 16 2011 08:30 hunts wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 08:26 dacimvrl wrote:
Cold hard facts:
1. Naniwa *disrespected* the crowd for a hyped match
2. GOMTV CHANGED the prize without informing the involved parties - winner: Naniwa, partner: MLG (+ fans)
so, I guess GOMTV didn't do anything wrong, but Naniwa and MLG deserved it?????
LuLz @ D4B0 S74ND4RD5 They never informed anyone? So they just invited naniwa to blizzardcup and he had no clue why, he thought it was because he was cute or something? I'm quite sure he KNEW why he was in blizzardcup, because the top 2 at MLG providence got that as their prize.
Im sure he wouldn't have gone if it was this or Code S. He obviously thought that he had Code S but also got invited to this since Providence was the Pro Circuit Finals.
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On December 16 2011 08:31 kslghost wrote:
Why does anyone speculate fault anymore?
Naniwa already admitted fault and has decided not to compete in the first season of 2012 GSL, even though he is allowed to go for Code A and he's staying in Korea.
The END?
Naniwas fault doesn't erase GOMTV's fault.
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On December 16 2011 08:30 dacimvrl wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 08:28 Govou wrote:On December 16 2011 08:26 dacimvrl wrote:
Cold hard facts:
1. Naniwa *disrespected* the crowd for a hyped match
2. GOMTV CHANGED the prize without informing the involved parties - winner: Naniwa, partner: MLG (+ fans)
so, I guess GOMTV didn't do anything wrong, but Naniwa and MLG deserved it?????
LuLz @ D4B0 S74ND4RD5 woohoo let's blame GOMTV to oblivion for changing their prize. Because 8000+ comments of it wasn't enough. oh the drama queens woohoo let's defend GOMTV cuz Naniwa was the bad guy, bad bad bad!! oh the righteous knights in shining armor!!
well thank you for proving my points. You can keep going.
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EPT
