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eSahara is glad to annonce their new zerg player : MaddeLisk!
We were looking for a female player, after few months speaking with different girls, MaddeLisk was the better choice for our organization. She alreaddy strated to train with Naama, DeathAngel, Verdi and Check, and i'm pretty sure she will do great in a near future!
MaddeLisk's short interview:
+ Show Spoiler +Hi, MaddeLisk, can you introduce yourself for eSahara's community? Hi! My name is Madeleine Leander. I'm a PhD-student in mathematics. I'm studying at Stockholm University in Sweden. I play a lot of starcraft - for the swarm - where I nick as MaddeLisk. Other than that i like to spend time at the gym and hang out with friends. When did you start to play starcraft? Have you played any video games before?
I started around the time when the game was released. It's my first computer game ever  When I started i was the worst noob, 9-pooling my way out of bronze league. Wich league are you? and what is you favorite strategy?
I play as zerg in Master league. My favourite strategy, well I like to play mass lings vs terran or mass muta vs ptotoss. But I'm not sure I have a favourite one.. How do you feel about joining eSahara?
ESahara is a really good team and I'm very happy to join. I hope joining eSahara will help me improve more and it will definitively motivate me to play more serious. Next stop - GM! One last word?
I would like to take the opportunity to thank eSahara for believing in me. I will do my best to become a better player. I would also like to thank my friends all the girls of Frizon for supporting me.
TL stream page : + Show Spoiler +http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/maddelisk
source : http://www.esahara.net/en/news/1538
eSahara SC2 roster:
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Oh, Maddelisk is a girl? Played a few games with her like a year ago but didn't even think about her gender.
Congrats maddelisk!
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I play as zerg in Master league. My favourite strategy, well I like to play mass lings vs terran or mass muta vs ptotoss. But I'm not sure I have a favourite one..
/facepalm
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I have no opinion on this other than that you should have chosen a picture that doesn't make her look naked.
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United Kingdom20284 Posts
"Girl player" in the headlines so that the name is bumped off thread list.
Ive never heard of this team before, and this is definatly not the right way to promote them... thread titles like this invalidate female gamers everywhere.
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United Kingdom20284 Posts
On December 14 2011 01:26 Enhancer_ wrote:
I have no opinion on this other than that you should have chosen a picture that doesn't make her look naked.
This too.
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Why do they do this? To get some sort of publicity stunt "UUHHH GUURL" or what? She's not good, probably not incredibly talented either, so this is just weird.
On the other hand, she is pretty.
GL to her and the team I guess.
And also, she calls herself MaddeLisk with a capital L yet the post by the team suggests it's a lower case l. bleh.
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On December 14 2011 01:26 Cyro wrote:
"Girl player" in the headlines so that the name is bumped off thread list.
Ive never heard of this team before, and this is definatly not the right way to promote them... thread titles like this invalidate female gamers everywhere.
I assume you didn't watch dreamhack did you? Naama is eSahara player ^^
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Didn't think getting team mascots would become a trend.
User was temp banned for this post.
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I could really use her help actually. More with the math than anything! This is a good story for girls trying to get picked up by a team. It really is possible as long as you work hard and have talent. You will eventually break the stereotype. Gogo, let's see her at MLG hopefully :D
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Always nice to here teams expand their rosters. Wishing them the best of luck.
On December 14 2011 01:27 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 01:26 Enhancer_ wrote:
I have no opinion on this other than that you should have chosen a picture that doesn't make her look naked. This too.
I agree with them too. The pic alone will cause controversy, at least she is in masters.
EDIT: with check, eSahara has a decent lineup o.o
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it's cool to see girls get into starcraft2, but i sure hope this recruit isnt fully because she is a girl. Will be nice to see if she goes to any tourney.
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At least she's a master's player.
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wanted to click on preview >< i pretty failed my post 
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On December 14 2011 01:29 RedBlargh wrote:
Didn't think getting team mascots would become a trend.
Shes's a masters level Zerg, probably better than you'll ever be.
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Wow this is great... Hopefully her skills are as good as her looks
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On December 14 2011 01:36 GreEny K wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 01:29 RedBlargh wrote:
Didn't think getting team mascots would become a trend. Shes's a masters level Zerg, probably better than you'll ever be.
According to her sc2ranks profile, she is low masters with a negative win/loss ratio, which doesn't really bode well in the first place.
Calling her a team mascot really isn't that much off from the truth in my opinion. The only other use for her that I can see is if girls-only league is going to be created in which case picking up a female player is a good idea.
But I highly doubt it.
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On December 14 2011 01:43 MonkeyMaan wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 01:36 GreEny K wrote:On December 14 2011 01:29 RedBlargh wrote:
Didn't think getting team mascots would become a trend. Shes's a masters level Zerg, probably better than you'll ever be. According to her sc2ranks profile, she is low masters with a negative win/loss ratio, which doesn't really bode well in the first place. Calling her a team mascot really isn't that much off from the truth in my opinion. The only other use for that I can see is if girls-only league is going to be created in which case picking up a female player is a good idea. But I highly doubt it.
She's a Masters Zerg who just joined a pro team... I think she'll be good in a few months, that's the benefit of having good teammates.
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I think that what is essential positive discrimination or how some people word it 'token girls' is damaging.
I think this in fact promotes and reinforces the already rather strong sexism in the scene. Some ones gender should not even be considered... I would not expect to recieve an email at work saying 'Publicity department has a new member of staff (she is a girl)' because that would be ridiculous.
I just think if she is a really talented player who does well in tournaments etc her gender is neither important or relevant. However if she is bad (as some people here are suggesting) then putting her on the team is a publicity stunt and is damaging.
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I could make a comment about her looks and then something about a late night activity and finally a statement about girls sc2 skills in general.
I won't because I'm a class act. LOL
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Cute
Hope she does well, this community needs more female gamers
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I can imagine her facing ST_Aphrodite. Aphrodite would end up destroying her.
anyways. Maybe we will see some sort of resurgence in women sc2 players. Though once the Koreans get notice of this. Its over
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On December 14 2011 01:44 GreEny K wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 01:43 MonkeyMaan wrote:On December 14 2011 01:36 GreEny K wrote:On December 14 2011 01:29 RedBlargh wrote:
Didn't think getting team mascots would become a trend. Shes's a masters level Zerg, probably better than you'll ever be. According to her sc2ranks profile, she is low masters with a negative win/loss ratio, which doesn't really bode well in the first place. Calling her a team mascot really isn't that much off from the truth in my opinion. The only other use for that I can see is if girls-only league is going to be created in which case picking up a female player is a good idea. But I highly doubt it. She's a Masters Zerg who just joined a pro team... I think she'll be good in a few months, that's the benefit of having good teammates.
I don't think they picked her because they think she has a chance at winning GSL
I'm going with looks and mascot here too.
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PhD-student in math? insta-fan!
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It's smart to have a female player on your team if you think there is going to be a growth in female only tournaments (which there seems to be)... it's not entirely a publicity stunt. Especially if sponsors come on board with female gaming... having one in your squad is a good idea. Also, if you get an early start and take it seriously and try to help her get better, there's a lot of potential.
Right now the number of females who take playing / improving very seriously is probably pretty low, so the field for female gamers is wide-open for someone to take it.
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I guess you could say that eSahara
*Puts on sunglasses*
Picked ud a pretty hot chick....
YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!
Edit: No disrespect, she could probably own me from now till eternity since I suck at 1v1 :D
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How effective is it for team PR to hire a girl? I mean I see quite a few teams trending with a female player but have we heard of them yet?
slayers eve and startale girl... dont see them anywhere anymore! There needs to be some sort of marketing pull for these girls amiright?
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I think that what is essential positive discrimination or how some people word it 'token girls' is damaging.
I think this in fact promotes and reinforces the already rather strong sexism in the scene. Some ones gender should not even be considered... I would not expect to recieve an email at work saying 'Publicity department has a new member of staff (she is a girl)' because that would be ridiculous.
I just think if she is a really talented player who does well in tournaments etc her gender is neither important or relevant. However if she is bad (as some people here are suggesting) then putting her on the team is a publicity stunt and is damaging.
I cringed when I saw the thread title "girl player". (it's sexist)
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i got girl in my team too and im not making threads on tl ;<
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If you look at her match history, you'll see a ton of custom games.
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On December 14 2011 01:43 MonkeyMaan wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 01:36 GreEny K wrote:On December 14 2011 01:29 RedBlargh wrote:
Didn't think getting team mascots would become a trend. Shes's a masters level Zerg, probably better than you'll ever be. According to her sc2ranks profile, she is low masters with a negative win/loss ratio, which doesn't really bode well in the first place. Calling her a team mascot really isn't that much off from the truth in my opinion. The only other use for her that I can see is if girls-only league is going to be created in which case picking up a female player is a good idea. But I highly doubt it.
An being on a pro team with really good practice partners wont help her improve at all which in turn would reverse that negitive win/loss ratio at all? I think you're assuming quite alot here man cause it does take a good amount of skill to get into masters/gm league (unless you cheese the whole way which I havnt seen or heard of too much) so the definate raw skills are likely there. She might just need some help smoothing out the rough edges that are potentially losing her games. Which being on a team has the very high chance of doing thus in turn making her a far better player then she was entering into the team. So really all iv gotta say is just dont assume anything really cause things have a good chance of changing rather drastically.
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Swedish ? Girl ? In a male-dominated environment ?
Well it's time to post this :
![[image loading]](http://satwcomic.com/art/Women-s-Rights.jpg)
Credits go to salle[] & satwcomic.
User was warned for this post
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Good luck miss.
To people who don't know eSahara, it's a big french team with great players like Naama, Verdi and Satiini
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On December 14 2011 01:49 Grovbolle wrote:
I guess you could say that eSahara
*Puts on sunglasses*
Picked ud a pretty hot chick....
YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!
Edit: No disrespect, she could probably own me from now till eternity since I suck at 1v1 :D
I guess you could say that
*Puts on sunglasses*
it was a dry joke.....
YEAH!!!
Edit: Good luck to Madde
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
always the same on TL
Girl gets/does something eSports related.
Bunch of guys bring up "it's only because she is an attractive female."
Bunch of guys defend her by showing that other people are worse, do worse or she is legit.
Several pages of this goes back and forth.
If we could just be happy for her and the opportunity it'd be great. Unrealistic but great.
"BUT INCONTROL, A MORE DESERVING MALE COULD HAVE GOTTEN THAT SPOT! It isn't right that she gets stuff because she is a girl!"
I then make the argument about marketing, the real world blah blah blah... someday maybe.
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Think i've seen her idling around in channels and playing practicegames with Znow.
Congrats and i hope she does eSahara justice!
On December 14 2011 02:02 Cyro wrote:
Its not about that iNcontroL, i am just confused as to why they write "eSahara adds girl player" as the thread title, and have a picture like that in the OP. It is degrading female players, not helping them.
Quoting posts that are after mine ftw. How is it in any way degrading to post a picture of the person you just added to your team? I can promise you, look up another similar thread for another team and you'll definitely see a picture.
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United Kingdom20284 Posts
On December 14 2011 01:59 iNcontroL wrote:
always the same on TL
Girl gets/does something eSports related.
Bunch of guys bring up "it's only because she is an attractive female."
Bunch of guys defend her by showing that other people are worse, do worse or she is legit.
Several pages of this goes back and forth.
If we could just be happy for her and the opportunity it'd be great. Unrealistic but great.
"BUT INCONTROL, A MORE DESERVING MALE COULD HAVE GOTTEN THAT SPOT! It isn't right that she gets stuff because she is a girl!"
I then make the argument about marketing, the real world blah blah blah... someday maybe.
Its not about that iNcontroL, i am just confused as to why they write "eSahara adds girl player" as the thread title, and have a picture like that in the OP. It is degrading female players, not helping them.
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She is really beautiful 0_0
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She gets certain advantages in the world because she's a girl?
Should be on the news because it certainly has never happened before... this is how it is people, deal with it
OT: she'll probably become really good in a while if the practice alot with her teammates
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Good luck Maddelisk! We will miss you in BX3 !
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On December 14 2011 01:59 Kevan wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 01:49 Grovbolle wrote:
I guess you could say that eSahara
*Puts on sunglasses*
Picked ud a pretty hot chick....
YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!
Edit: No disrespect, she could probably own me from now till eternity since I suck at 1v1 :D I guess you could say that *Puts on sunglasses* it was a dry joke..... YEAH!!! Edit: Good luck to Madde
Yeah you did :D
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Whats her role in the team?
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Fucking awesome, a female zerg player to cheer for. And she likes math !
Can't wait to see her play :D
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On December 14 2011 02:04 Racer wrote:
Whats her role in the team?
she brings the water to the booth of the players and makes sandwiches for them obviously
User was warned for this post
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I really hope that these ladies practice enough to be legit pros. Maddelisk's PhD program (math no less!) probably will not allow her to do that. Well she's clearly got the brains to be great at this game, I wonder if she'll be able to make the time.
Good luck, Maddeline!
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United Kingdom20284 Posts
On December 14 2011 02:03 Pulimuli wrote:
She gets certain advantages in the world because she's a girl?
Should be on the news because it certainly has never happened before... this is how it is people, deal with it
OT: she'll probably become really good in a while if the practice alot with her teammates
Its happened at least once or twice before.
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On December 14 2011 02:06 Sclol wrote:she brings the water to the booth of the players and makes sandwiches for them obviously
Uncalled for
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Never heard of the team..., nor any of its players...
Interesting I suppose? Imo, they should've been looking for good players, rather than looking specifically for female players...
Having a good player that happens to be a female, is completely different than a good female player.
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On December 14 2011 02:06 Sclol wrote:she brings the water to the booth of the players and makes sandwiches for them obviously
Yeah, blatant sexism isn't exactly the best way to grow esports....
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On December 14 2011 01:54 Catatonic wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 01:43 MonkeyMaan wrote:On December 14 2011 01:36 GreEny K wrote:On December 14 2011 01:29 RedBlargh wrote:
Didn't think getting team mascots would become a trend. Shes's a masters level Zerg, probably better than you'll ever be. According to her sc2ranks profile, she is low masters with a negative win/loss ratio, which doesn't really bode well in the first place. Calling her a team mascot really isn't that much off from the truth in my opinion. The only other use for her that I can see is if girls-only league is going to be created in which case picking up a female player is a good idea. But I highly doubt it. An being on a pro team with really good practice partners wont help her improve at all which in turn would reverse that negitive win/loss ratio at all? I think you're assuming quite alot here man cause it does take a good amount of skill to get into masters/gm league (unless you cheese the whole way which I havnt seen or heard of too much) so the definate raw skills are likely there. She might just need some help smoothing out the rough edges that are potentially losing her games. Which being on a team has the very high chance of doing thus in turn making her a far better player then she was entering into the team. So really all iv gotta say is just dont assume anything really cause things have a good chance of changing rather drastically.
In my opinion, it doesn't take much skill to get to masters league, but let's not take that discussion now.
In my opinion, in order to really show you have talent, you need to be able to get far without help and low masters league just does not cut it for me. Yes, she is probably going to improve. What I meant with the negative win/loss ratio statement, is that some really good people are low masters, they have a good win/loss ratio but they just don't play enough. Being low masters with a negative win/loss ratio in my opinion means, that you are not very good. Obviously she is going to improve if she trains with the teammembers, but I do not think she will turn the negative win/loss ratio into a positive ratio. The blizzard system tries to make your win/loss even. The really good gamers do not have that, because they have more people they should beat compared to people they should not beat (I think !).
I think the teammembers would spend their time much more efficiently on improving themselves compared to some low masters player who they just picked up because she is a girl. And they did state they were specifically looking for a girl.
And also, I think you need to remember that there is a huge difference between low masters, mid masters, high masters and gm. If they wanted to just "make her a far better player compared to when she entered" they might as well start picking up players from bronze, because I believe anyone can become better if they really want to.
oh, and for you InControl, the "I then make the argument about marketing, the real world blah blah blah... someday maybe." kind of agrees with the people that say they only recruited her because she is an attractive female. Sure, I agree, it is probably good for the company in a market aspect.
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On December 14 2011 02:04 Racer wrote:
Whats her role in the team?
It is hidden somewhere at the top of the OP. Here, I made it easier for you to find:
eSahara is glad to annonce their new zerg player
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If SC2 really is her first real computer game ever, I'd say she really does have some talent for this, or at least she is very determined to get better. I bought the game when it came out and have stayed in diamond for like a year now, and though I didn't have RTS experience before that, I did play WoW actively so I had some kind of a sense for games. If she got to master in less than 1,5 years without ANY prior gaming experience, while also studying at the same time, she absolutely deserves to join a team to get better even faster, in my opinion.
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They are allowed to point out that they are adding a girl to the team because it's uncommon. If they said "adds player" everyone would simply assume that she is a guy.
Also nothing wrong with wanting to specifically wanting girls on teams and expanding Starcraft in that way - regardless of skill level.
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Nice to see some potentially talented females joining the ranks of teams. Gotta respect someone studying for Ph.D and playing SC2 at high level at the same time.
OT: I heard Mr.Day[9] likes math and Swedish girls. *hint hint*
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Let's just be honest. This player is in the team not due to the fact that she has any obvious pro-level talent but because she is a female in a male-dominated environment.
Rank 57 masters player picked up by a pro-team for any other reason? I doubt it.
Saying that I do wish her good luck in her SC career as it would be good to have a very talented female pro in order to set an example for other girls that it can be done. Hopefully we will have one who has the skill and dedication to win tournaments, but seeing as this girl is doing a PhD and obviously quite distracted by her life.
Also she could have left out the bit about her favorite strategy as it doesn't exactly make you take her seriously.
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How does a student going for a PhD in mathematics have time for joining a starcraft team? Bonkers.
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On December 14 2011 02:13 PikQ wrote:
If SC2 really is her first real computer game ever, I'd say she really does have some talent for this, or at least she is very determined to get better. I bought the game when it came out and have stayed in diamond for like a year now, and though I didn't have RTS experience before that, I did play WoW actively so I had some kind of a sense for games. If she got to master in less than 1,5 years without ANY prior gaming experience, while also studying at the same time, she absolutely deserves to join a team to get better even faster, in my opinion.
I too find her lack of video game history quite impressive.
She must either have some ridonkulous multi-tasking abilities or just be crazy dedicated in her free time.
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Good luck @MaddeLisk and good luck @eSahara.
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No idea who eSahara or MaddeLisk are, but hey.. Check! Good luck to everyone involved..
@sclol get out
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How is the thread degrading? Female pro players, and players in general, are a rarity and deserve acknowledgment in a thread title. What about the picture? She looks beautiful. I see nothing degrading. How can you even speak for her like that?
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Good luck and have fun Madeleine!
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Best of Luck Madde! kick some ass!
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Agreed she is pretty hot for a progamer.
I was expecting some emo-looking girl with a ****ed up hair cut and piercings all up in her GRILL.
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On December 14 2011 01:59 iNcontroL wrote:
always the same on TL
Girl gets/does something eSports related.
Bunch of guys bring up "it's only because she is an attractive female."
Bunch of guys defend her by showing that other people are worse, do worse or she is legit.
Several pages of this goes back and forth.
If we could just be happy for her and the opportunity it'd be great. Unrealistic but great.
"BUT INCONTROL, A MORE DESERVING MALE COULD HAVE GOTTEN THAT SPOT! It isn't right that she gets stuff because she is a girl!"
I then make the argument about marketing, the real world blah blah blah... someday maybe.
you assume that the majority of the people posting here are older than 15...
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Netherlands4511 Posts
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On December 14 2011 02:26 Liquid`Ret wrote:
fuck this newb
Man, I wish I was a TL member :D
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On December 14 2011 02:26 Liquid`Ret wrote:
fuck this newb
lol wut
I clicked on this thread just to get a laugh from all the butthurt kiddies who I knew would be posting here, but Ret...you should at least put an emoticon in there if you're joking .
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Netherlands4511 Posts
HOW COULD IT NOT BE A JOKE 
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Her response to the question about strategy doesn't really show that she has a good understanding of the game.
Well, I hope it's just because her english isn't good or whatever. Good luck! Looking forward to seeing great things ^^
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Netherlands4511 Posts
mass ling is good vs blueflame hellions
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On December 14 2011 02:26 Liquid`Ret wrote:
fuck this newb
On December 14 2011 02:30 Liquid`Ret wrote:HOW COULD IT NOT BE A JOKE
On December 14 2011 02:32 Liquid`Ret wrote:
mass ling is good vs blueflame hellions
jos de kroon. not a fan of the ______. [insert emoticon, I actually don't know how to]
on a serious note, gz to her I find it even more (can't think of the word) that she is a phd student in mathematics.
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On December 14 2011 02:14 Darksteel wrote:
Nice to see some potentially talented females joining the ranks of teams. Gotta respect someone studying for Ph.D and playing SC2 at high level at the same time.
OT: I heard Mr.Day[9] likes math and Swedish girls. *hint hint*
This. I think it's really cool that teams are interested in picking up girls for teams. Will hopefully get more girls interested in gaming. However, I don't like the idea of separate tournaments just for girls, because they can play just as well as guys. I viewed the Zowie Divina as an exhibition tournament showing that there are many high level women players out there, so I enjoyed watching them battle it out.
Also if you are complaining about her not playing SC2 enough to be picked up in a team, she is getting an effing Ph.D in Math which is pretty hard and time consuming. And excuse her from putting more time into a very solid career path in Mathematics. Let her finish getting the degree and then she can spend more time playing and improving as a member of eSahara.
GL HF MaddeLisk
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On December 14 2011 02:30 thesideshow wrote:
Her response to the question about strategy doesn't really show that she has a good understanding of the game.
Well, I hope it's just because her english isn't good or whatever. Good luck! Looking forward to seeing great things ^^
Mass ling isn't necessarily a bad strategy, at least on the ladder. Just ask RGNPhoenix.
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On December 14 2011 02:06 Sclol wrote:she brings the water to the booth of the players and makes sandwiches for them obviously
you jelly?
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On December 14 2011 02:30 Liquid`Ret wrote:HOW COULD IT NOT BE A JOKE
NO JOKES ON TEAMLIQUID!
-.-
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On December 14 2011 02:35 Doodsmack wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 02:30 thesideshow wrote:
Her response to the question about strategy doesn't really show that she has a good understanding of the game.
Well, I hope it's just because her english isn't good or whatever. Good luck! Looking forward to seeing great things ^^ Mass ling isn't necessarily a bad strategy, at least on the ladder. Just ask RGNPhoenix.
Sen does mass lings too...
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Lol...
Another thread about females in esports. These are entertaining as hell.
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Anyone who does math @ phd level has my eternal respect. GL to everyone involved.
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I think she's naked in the picture..
User was warned for this post
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On December 14 2011 01:44 GreEny K wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 01:43 MonkeyMaan wrote:On December 14 2011 01:36 GreEny K wrote:On December 14 2011 01:29 RedBlargh wrote:
Didn't think getting team mascots would become a trend. Shes's a masters level Zerg, probably better than you'll ever be. According to her sc2ranks profile, she is low masters with a negative win/loss ratio, which doesn't really bode well in the first place. Calling her a team mascot really isn't that much off from the truth in my opinion. The only other use for that I can see is if girls-only league is going to be created in which case picking up a female player is a good idea. But I highly doubt it. She's a Masters Zerg who just joined a pro team... I think she'll be good in a few months, that's the benefit of having good teammates.
well i'm masters too, why are therw no pro teams fighting over me? xD
we all know it's most likely for publicity, not saying that i mind. i'd really like to see women compete on a high level. gl to her
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Congrats to her, great for the scene to have both genders participating.
Picture in OP is a little...revealing, however.
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What's wrong with the photo? Are you guys afraid of what a woman's skin looks like or something?
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On December 14 2011 02:47 namste wrote:
I think she's naked in the picture..
cause strapless dresses don't exist.
I think its nice that more female games are starting to come into the scene, I'm sure it encourages other female gamer's in many ways.
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Next year, there should be a Starcraft 2 Pageants! Ms. Starcraft. =)
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damn phd in math... girl's smart. She's already pretty decent, hopefully esahara will help her improve a lot to start competing in tournies!
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Sexist butthurts VS forever alones
FIGHT!
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GL to MaddeLisk, I suppose. I watched her stream afew times along with a few friends.
It ended with her thinking one of my friends would be a pushover (he is low masters P) and she got crushed in a PvZ after he challenged her when she complained about his criticism. Not saying she's bad though - she didn't seem that awful really.
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man i dont mind female players but that girl aint good... to be in a pro team
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On December 14 2011 01:44 GreEny K wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 01:43 MonkeyMaan wrote:On December 14 2011 01:36 GreEny K wrote:On December 14 2011 01:29 RedBlargh wrote:
Didn't think getting team mascots would become a trend. Shes's a masters level Zerg, probably better than you'll ever be. According to her sc2ranks profile, she is low masters with a negative win/loss ratio, which doesn't really bode well in the first place. Calling her a team mascot really isn't that much off from the truth in my opinion. The only other use for that I can see is if girls-only league is going to be created in which case picking up a female player is a good idea. But I highly doubt it. She's a Masters Zerg who just joined a pro team... I think she'll be good in a few months, that's the benefit of having good teammates.
I'm not as cruel as others but you really think top pros are going to practice with a low master 'teammate'? Not sure if serious or ridiculous level of white knighting going on.
the only way to look at this is that they want her for the female cups and presence of participating in the woman's leagues. As a PhD student she can't possibly have the time to practice to go pro and at her current skill level she offers nothing to the pros on her team. I'm not saying this to be mean, I'm midmasters zerg as well and I have no reason to be on a pro team unless there is a highly public league for 27 year old men with long hair that like death metal that work in higher education. I may be a real asset to a pro team if such a league became popular!
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lol , in sc2 there are female cups , that are also promoted , streamed .. media coverage etc.
seems smart for our team to have a good girl in the team also
since we couldn't find a GM girl (I don't know any in EU server) , we took one master division girl ..
don't get why some bronze guys comentate :D
it has nothing to do with sexism .. if you are a male you get a male competition
is the same for boxing , football and other sports that have huge male competitions.. and some small ones for females where ppl can still look at some 2 chicks boxing eachother
but you will not see a female boxer vs a male boxer .. the male will crush her..
and don't tell me that I chosed a wrong example because it has to do with men body having more strength etc. , cause it's the same for CHESS , where are also women competitions , and male ones
so if there is a sc2 female tournament , Maddelisk can represent esahara while in some big tournament , the top squad will do it..
and being masters as girl , is a pretty good ranking imo , considering the scene..
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On December 14 2011 01:29 MonkeyMaan wrote:
Why do they do this? To get some sort of publicity stunt "UUHHH GUURL" or what? She's not good, probably not incredibly talented either, so this is just weird.
On the other hand, she is pretty.
GL to her and the team I guess.
And also, she calls herself MaddeLisk with a capital L yet the post by the team suggests it's a lower case l. bleh.
well she is masters, so she is better than 98% of starcraft 2 players.
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On December 14 2011 03:10 DeathAngel[ro] wrote:
lol , in sc2 there are female cups , that are also promoted , streamed .. media coverage etc.
seems smart for our team to have a good girl in the team also
since we couldn't find a GM girl (I don't know any in EU server) , we took one master division girl ..
don't get why some bronze guys comentate :D
it has nothing to do with sexism .. if you are a male you get a male competition
is the same for boxing , football and other sports that have huge male competitions.. and some small ones for females where ppl can still look at some 2 chicks boxing eachother
but you will not see a female boxer vs a male boxer .. the male will crush her..
and don't tell me that I chosed a wrong example because it has to do with men body having more strength etc. , cause it's the same for CHESS , where are also women competitions , and male ones
so if there is a sc2 female tournament , Maddelisk can represent esahara while in some big tournament , the top squad will do it..
and being masters as girl , is a pretty good ranking imo , considering the scene..
word
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On December 14 2011 01:24 skirmisheR wrote:
Oh, Maddelisk is a girl? Played a few games with her like a year ago but didn't even think about her gender.
Congrats maddelisk!
Really? You couldn't tell her gender from her playstyle?!
I kid :p.
Anyway, I'm always happy to see the female sc2 scene grow. Good luck MadeLisk (and wooo, I study on the same place as her, does that make me cool?! :p).
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Let's see if this is more successfull than the SlayerS_Eve idea.
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I think its no problem to invite girls to teams. Even if there not GM. They just need something to push them to get better, and having a pro team is exactly this!
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Lol is she really training with Naama Satiini etc ?
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haha god i remember her euro channel... fun times!
best of luck madde
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On December 14 2011 02:45 Sated wrote:
Sounds like she's been signed on a gender basis rather than a skill basis. Sad times.
EDIT:
More positively, for all I know she has a lot of potential and will get better in a team environment. So good luck to her and the team.
I'd just like to point out that, in UK people are seemingly signed because they are from UK (ie there are better players from other countries unsigned). I don't see anyone whining about that ._.? Neither of those are weird, to be one of the best in a group of people (be it nationality or gender) will give you more chances than if you're better than those individuals but in a group where more people and better people exist. That's just how shit works.
Edit: Another great example is Korea, I don't doubt by a second that there are unsigned players there that are way better than some of the signed international players with a decent salary.
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Ooooh here we go again. Good for her and definitely good for the team but yeah, special treatment etcetc. TT
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On December 14 2011 03:41 Sated wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 03:10 DeathAngel[ro] wrote:
lol , in sc2 there are female cups , that are also promoted , streamed .. media coverage etc.
seems smart for our team to have a good girl in the team also
since we couldn't find a GM girl (I don't know any in EU server) , we took one master division girl ..
don't get why some bronze guys comentate :D
it has nothing to do with sexism .. if you are a male you get a male competition
is the same for boxing , football and other sports that have huge male competitions.. and some small ones for females where ppl can still look at some 2 chicks boxing eachother
but you will not see a female boxer vs a male boxer .. the male will crush her..
and don't tell me that I chosed a wrong example because it has to do with men body having more strength etc. , cause it's the same for CHESS , where are also women competitions , and male ones
so if there is a sc2 female tournament , Maddelisk can represent esahara while in some big tournament , the top squad will do it..
and being masters as girl , is a pretty good ranking imo , considering the scene.. The difference between this and boxing is that female SC2 players don't have to contest with their genetic make-up making them less able as physical athletes. SC2 has a level playing field gender-wise, there's no competitive reason for a split to exist.
As he said, there are female sc2 tournaments that get coverage, so its good business having a player in your team that can play in said tournaments. Them signing a female player has nothing to do with "level playing field gender-wise".
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She's masters and phd math student so she's better at sc2 and smarter than most people in this thread
If you've only got negative things to say why don't you go to reddit
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blonde girl in masters... pretty sure i cant believe that for a second haha. sorry!
will give you a chance and check the stream sometime tho!
and lol @ all the teams recruiting 1 girl...
ps. not hating, props for girls playin and gettin good/etc. props
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A team I've never heard of signed a player who, if she was a man, would have a remarkably unimpressive record.
I know the whole "mascot" idea got floated around earlier, but if this is their way of earning press, then it's not entriely untrue...
Just sayin'
Oh yeah, she's masters... I forget, how many people rate higher than a low masters? Must be very, very few of them or else this wouldn't be a big deal. In fairness, she could probably beat me in SC2... but then again, I don't claim to be a "pro" and play on a "pro team".
Fuck, I don't know why I'm getting more and more phased by this. It's just striking all the wrong chords.
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Well she's certainly a looker. That pic is one veil short of looking like a wedding photo.
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Seriously, how have people not heard of eSahara?
Naama just made Ro8 at Dreamhack. They just picked up Check.
Do people just not pay attention?
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I hope she does well!
Good Luck!!
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Kinda funny I don't think anyone would care that much about the recruit's record/league etc. if it was a guy
"Huh some team signed some low masters player. Whatever, maybe they see something in him I don't. Best of luck I suppose."
"Oh my god this team only signed this player because she's a girl, she has an awful record she must be terrible, this is such blatant reverse discrimination, etc"
It's just newsworthy because there aren't many female progamers, so it's interesting to see them. End of story. I would be equally as interested in a story about a team that signed a black progamer even though there's no gender division there.
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United Kingdom20284 Posts
On December 14 2011 05:00 jubil wrote:
Kinda funny I don't think anyone would care that much about the recruit's record/league etc. if it was a guy
"Huh some team signed some low masters player. Whatever, maybe they see something in him I don't. Best of luck I suppose."
"Oh my god this team only signed this player because she's a girl, she has an awful record she must be terrible, this is such blatant reverse discrimination, etc"
It's just newsworthy because there aren't many female progamers, so it's interesting to see them. End of story. I would be equally as interested in a story about a team that signed a black progamer even though there's no gender division there.
I think some of the drama comes from "We were looking for a female player, after few months speaking with different girls" on the second line of the thread, and as i said twice earlier, the way they go way over the top promoting it, with the thread title reading as "eSahara adds girl player" on the teamliquid thread list.
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Waiting for White-Ra's face to be put on her picture.
And would any team ever live down announcing a new player with a picture of a guy apparently topless next to some pretty flowers?
Other than the stupid picture, its awesome to see females getting picked up by teams. Atleast they will have the opportunity to take the game seriously, congrats MaddieLisk I hope you do fantastic
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Good luck! Hope you do well with the new team!
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On December 14 2011 01:29 RedBlargh wrote:
Didn't think getting team mascots would become a trend.
User was temp banned for this post.
That is really rude, they said she is masters and has been practicing with the team...
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WAIT WAIT WAIT
Ph. D. in mathematics ? Play sc2 seriously ? Swedish ? COME ON MARRY ME MADDE YOU KNOW YOU WANT TO !
Slightly more on topic : what is her Ph.D about ?
Edit : apparently she works with graph and combinatorial things. Which I hate both. Sad panda there.
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Better looking than me, smarter than me, and better at starcraft than me. I'm so in love right now. <3<3<3
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On December 14 2011 03:10 DeathAngel[ro] wrote:
lol , in sc2 there are female cups , that are also promoted , streamed .. media coverage etc.
seems smart for our team to have a good girl in the team also
since we couldn't find a GM girl (I don't know any in EU server) , we took one master division girl ..
don't get why some bronze guys comentate :D
it has nothing to do with sexism .. if you are a male you get a male competition
is the same for boxing , football and other sports that have huge male competitions.. and some small ones for females where ppl can still look at some 2 chicks boxing eachother
but you will not see a female boxer vs a male boxer .. the male will crush her..
and don't tell me that I chosed a wrong example because it has to do with men body having more strength etc. , cause it's the same for CHESS , where are also women competitions , and male ones
so if there is a sc2 female tournament , Maddelisk can represent esahara while in some big tournament , the top squad will do it..
and being masters as girl , is a pretty good ranking imo , considering the scene..
This implies that female players are somehow at a disadvantage against male players in SC2...
Similar to poker and chess, I don't think women have any inherent disadvantage in this game.
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She looks good! Shame she is Swedish, their language is too jibberish.
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On December 14 2011 05:00 jubil wrote:
Kinda funny I don't think anyone would care that much about the recruit's record/league etc. if it was a guy
"Huh some team signed some low masters player. Whatever, maybe they see something in him I don't. Best of luck I suppose."
"Oh my god this team only signed this player because she's a girl, she has an awful record she must be terrible, this is such blatant reverse discrimination, etc"
It's just newsworthy because there aren't many female progamers, so it's interesting to see them. End of story. I would be equally as interested in a story about a team that signed a black progamer even though there's no gender division there.
There's actually quite a lot of them now. Haven't seen any of them play vs a decent male player since they were signed to teams though.
Really wish the teams would use them in team leagues etc rather than just parade them around then not even give them a chance to show the fans what they're capable of against the guys.
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On December 14 2011 05:42 Stuv wrote:
She looks good! Shame she is Swedish, their language is too jibberish.
Nah this is good, much higher chance that she'll be good at the game. Swedes are second only to Koreans in SC2.
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On December 14 2011 05:41 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 03:10 DeathAngel[ro] wrote:
lol , in sc2 there are female cups , that are also promoted , streamed .. media coverage etc.
seems smart for our team to have a good girl in the team also
since we couldn't find a GM girl (I don't know any in EU server) , we took one master division girl ..
don't get why some bronze guys comentate :D
it has nothing to do with sexism .. if you are a male you get a male competition
is the same for boxing , football and other sports that have huge male competitions.. and some small ones for females where ppl can still look at some 2 chicks boxing eachother
but you will not see a female boxer vs a male boxer .. the male will crush her..
and don't tell me that I chosed a wrong example because it has to do with men body having more strength etc. , cause it's the same for CHESS , where are also women competitions , and male ones
so if there is a sc2 female tournament , Maddelisk can represent esahara while in some big tournament , the top squad will do it..
and being masters as girl , is a pretty good ranking imo , considering the scene.. This implies that female players are somehow at a disadvantage against male players in SC2... Similar to poker and chess, I don't think women have any inherent disadvantage in this game.
lol wait till that guy is old enough to go to school and learns about the physiological differences between boys and girls. It will blow his mind!
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What's the point of specifying that she's a girl in the thread title? It makes it look more like a publicity stunt than just news that the team is getting a new player.
Anyway, hope she's good and plays some entertaining games at tournaments in the future.
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Was recruited based on her skills and looks?
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On December 14 2011 05:55 Switchy wrote:
Was recruited based on her skills and looks?
Actually she was recruited to flip nerds into a frenzied rage in the hope that they kill themselves.
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Fap
User was temp banned for this post.
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How can people tolerate this? Girls do not have any clear disadvantage in this game. How come they get special treatment? It's just unfair for the good people that are looking for a decent team. The reason there are not as many good female players around is because girls like to hang with each other instead of playing games seriously(sleepovers, partying till late) not because they are mentally challenged. Isn't everyone supposed to get the same treatment...?
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Does she has to be naked it points to publicity. I hope I'm wrong and she's really good.
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On December 14 2011 05:42 Stuv wrote:
She looks good! Shame she is Swedish, their language is too jibberish.
I find that REALLY ironic coming from a Dutchman ;P
(sounds like a mangled english/german gibberish to me)
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Considering the other topic just got closed by Chill, I'll post my response here:
Why recruit female gamers?
Marketing. Only question is what are they trying to market? They get zero exposure as is.
Too few women compete. It's like NASCAR: a male dominated sport, but without the same exposure.
You might say Danica Patrick is a good role model for women, but unlike D.P. these women get zero exposure. I don't see the point of recruiting them unless you put it in front of everyone's face (more than posting a press release that we signed so-and-so). It comes down to the following:
- competing all the time
- results
- marketing
The last one should be easy, but sponsors still drop the ball on this one.
What do the sponsors get out of all this? I'd really like to know.
It's like the beginning of the BW Amateur scene all over again.
I used to manage teams myself. If I don't see the potential in the prospect I don't sign them. Simple. The sponsors are obviously trying to sell something else because I rarely see the female gamers compete at events let alone the marketing (Flo is like the only one who really tries to compete with the boys-- hat goes off to her). Instead, they stick to segregated tournaments that get next to zero exposure from the community. So my question to those signing the contracts. What the fuck are you getting out of this?
Start putting them in the eye of the storm. If the sponsors/teams are going to sign them to contracts. Back it the fuck up and have them compete more often.
Have them more visible opposed to invisible.
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On December 14 2011 05:41 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 03:10 DeathAngel[ro] wrote:
lol , in sc2 there are female cups , that are also promoted , streamed .. media coverage etc.
seems smart for our team to have a good girl in the team also
since we couldn't find a GM girl (I don't know any in EU server) , we took one master division girl ..
don't get why some bronze guys comentate :D
it has nothing to do with sexism .. if you are a male you get a male competition
is the same for boxing , football and other sports that have huge male competitions.. and some small ones for females where ppl can still look at some 2 chicks boxing eachother
but you will not see a female boxer vs a male boxer .. the male will crush her..
and don't tell me that I chosed a wrong example because it has to do with men body having more strength etc. , cause it's the same for CHESS , where are also women competitions , and male ones
so if there is a sc2 female tournament , Maddelisk can represent esahara while in some big tournament , the top squad will do it..
and being masters as girl , is a pretty good ranking imo , considering the scene.. This implies that female players are somehow at a disadvantage against male players in SC2... Similar to poker and chess, I don't think women have any inherent disadvantage in this game.
The current reality is that it doesn't matter if women are at a disadvantage or not, because there are women only tournaments anyway. As such, it is understandable that a team would go looking for a good female player to represent them in the women's tournaments. You might argue that these gender divided tournaments shouldn't exist, but they exist in poker as well, and the post you quote mentions them in chess.
If there really are no advantages/disadvantages for the genders in sc2, then hopefully training with a competitive team will allow this or another female gamer to improve to the point where she can really compete in an MLG or Dreamhack and perhaps inspire more women to do the same.
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On December 14 2011 01:59 iNcontroL wrote:
always the same on TL
Girl gets/does something eSports related.
Bunch of guys bring up "it's only because she is an attractive female."
Bunch of guys defend her by showing that other people are worse, do worse or she is legit.
Several pages of this goes back and forth.
If we could just be happy for her and the opportunity it'd be great. Unrealistic but great.
"BUT INCONTROL, A MORE DESERVING MALE COULD HAVE GOTTEN THAT SPOT! It isn't right that she gets stuff because she is a girl!"
I then make the argument about marketing, the real world blah blah blah... someday maybe.
Here is a question: When will EG get a female player?
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Anna already does stuff for the team.
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On December 14 2011 01:25 SC2NeCro wrote:
I play as zerg in Master league. My favourite strategy, well I like to play mass lings vs terran or mass muta vs ptotoss. But I'm not sure I have a favourite one..
/facepalm
Yup, that made me lol a bit.
Also, how is she even going to play whilst doing a Ph.D?
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A few months ago I watched a couple of games of her and spent some time in her channel. She's a really nice person and I hope she gets treated accordingly.
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There should be a picture of her in a team jersey/shirt or something casual... such a stupid picture to put in the thread.
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She is really beautiful. I hope she is an extremely skilled player as well.
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Oh TL... will you ever change? (rhetorical)
Congrats to her and eSahara. Hopefully there will be some more female only events for you to compete in. GL.
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Nice congratulations, interesting to see more teams adopt this trend
Also, we have similar sc2 names yay
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Recruiting women because of their looks is such a male/chauvinist thing to do. They could at least pick a chick with worse looks to remain some kind of decency.
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Good addition for eSahara, she seems like she's taking it really seriously.
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It's a publicity stunt but that's cool. GL to all involved.
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I hope this female player can at least defeat Jinro.. I jest.
Anyways, like other people say, you probably shouldn't have chosen a picture that makes here look naked. She is a good pickup, though, considering she already knows some of your team and she is fairly high level.
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I've got no problems with teams picking up female gamers ... but please choose a different picture next time.
Good luck to her.
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What disappoints me isn't the fact that she's a girl, but that she's a player with virtually no noteworthy skill in the game (<50% win ratio NA Masters isn't much to holler about). Yet she gets on the team because they have other uses for her besides being a legitimate competitor.
If she improves drastically and can compete on some sort of level with other progamers, then I will eat my hat. If she changes role and performs another use for the team, such as practice partner or something, then I will eat my hat. But until then, the hat stays on my head.
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On December 14 2011 01:26 Cyro wrote:
"Girl player" in the headlines so that the name is bumped off thread list.
Ive never heard of this team before, and this is definatly not the right way to promote them... thread titles like this invalidate female gamers everywhere.
Man how do you not know cArn?
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She is very beautiful but I hope the SC2 gets past this phase of recruiting players on looks alone.
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Good luck to her and eSahara, but they really should have chosen another picture....................
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After looking at that picture I immediatly googled Maria Carey. Kinda looks like her from about 10 years ago.
Anyways grats to her. Lookin forward to seeing her on TV
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Publicity stunt.
Congrats though! You're living the dream!
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My take on this is that more teams should pick up a female player for their roster.
Most people in the thread seem to think if they join a team they should be winning MLG or something, but after the success of the Zowie Divina Girls tournament, im sure there will be more female only events, and seeing as the female sc2 player pool is small, theres a greater chance a girl who is on a good and known team will get chosen for events like this.
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On December 14 2011 09:31 Floobie wrote:
My take on this is that more teams should pick up a female player for their roster.
Most people in the thread seem to think if they join a team they should be winning MLG or something, but after the success of the Zowie Divina Girls tournament, im sure there will be more female only events, and seeing as the female sc2 player pool is small, theres a greater chance a girl who is on a good and known team will get chosen for events like this.
There shouldn't be any female only events. What's the point? Male and female players are on even ground. That's like having separate male and female chess tournaments. Makes no sense.
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On December 14 2011 09:36 ayaz2810 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 09:31 Floobie wrote:
My take on this is that more teams should pick up a female player for their roster.
Most people in the thread seem to think if they join a team they should be winning MLG or something, but after the success of the Zowie Divina Girls tournament, im sure there will be more female only events, and seeing as the female sc2 player pool is small, theres a greater chance a girl who is on a good and known team will get chosen for events like this.
There shouldn't be any female only events. What's the point? Male and female players are on even ground. That's like having separate male and female chess tournaments. Makes no sense.
Well in chess there are Tournaments that are for Men and Women, and there are tournaments for Women only. Thats how i think Starcraft should be.
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On December 14 2011 01:45 Slyce wrote:
I think that what is essential positive discrimination or how some people word it 'token girls' is damaging.
I think this in fact promotes and reinforces the already rather strong sexism in the scene. Some ones gender should not even be considered... I would not expect to recieve an email at work saying 'Publicity department has a new member of staff (she is a girl)' because that would be ridiculous.
I just think if she is a really talented player who does well in tournaments etc her gender is neither important or relevant. However if she is bad (as some people here are suggesting) then putting her on the team is a publicity stunt and is damaging.
Well said, I can see the point you're making is sound logic.
Maybe they are going to set up a separate girls sC2 League in the future
Anyways gratz on picking up a talented female SC2 player Esahara
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On December 14 2011 01:59 iNcontroL wrote:
always the same on TL
Girl gets/does something eSports related.
Bunch of guys bring up "it's only because she is an attractive female."
Bunch of guys defend her by showing that other people are worse, do worse or she is legit.
Several pages of this goes back and forth.
If we could just be happy for her and the opportunity it'd be great. Unrealistic but great.
"BUT INCONTROL, A MORE DESERVING MALE COULD HAVE GOTTEN THAT SPOT! It isn't right that she gets stuff because she is a girl!"
I then make the argument about marketing, the real world blah blah blah... someday maybe.
The thread title and that ridiculous picture are pretty much telling the story here:
****************************************************************************************************
"Dear community of basement dwelling, nerdy computer game playing virgins.
We present you a picture of a half naked good looking specimen of a female human being (you know? The ones you usually only get to see in Pr0n.), and guess what? She's actually interested in playing nerdy video games, too!!!111!1
From now on you can dream of maybe once in your life meet her on the ladder although you'd probably have to change your shorts after the game.
****************************************************************************************************
I personally couldn't care less about more deserving male players or whatever. I'm a casual player in the gold league who'd get his ass kicked in a 1v1 by a player like MaddeLisk.
However when a team does something blatantly obviously sexist like this thread, I think it's only fair to call them out for that.
I don't think we'll ever see an announcement thread like the following image I created out of Destiny's QxG thread, because that would be WTFLOL and a picture like that would have nothing to do with why he was hired.
Also maybe because he's a basement dwelling, nerdy computer game playing virgin like all of us are and none of us even come close to having a body like that
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Z2zBX.jpg)
EDIT: I think I'll have to make myself a bit more clear here:
I'm actually in favor of signing female players for the only reason BECAUSE they are female (and as long as they don't totally suck at the game). This model can actually work. Get females into it that are half decent skill wise and others will feel encouraged to do the same. Before you know it you'll have a bunch of not only half decent but actually seriously competitive female players.
Just please don't present them like centerfolds.
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The picture for this announcement is so inappropriate. They got a picture of her glamored up and looking naked, but really probably wearing a strapless fancy dress.
Why not have a picture of her wearing the team shirt instead?
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On December 14 2011 01:25 SC2NeCro wrote:
I play as zerg in Master league. My favourite strategy, well I like to play mass lings vs terran or mass muta vs ptotoss. But I'm not sure I have a favourite one..
/facepalm
Yea I though the same thing.
She could have given a high level answer and come off so well to everyone, and instead she names two units.....
Well I'm sure she's legit enough, hopefully good practice partners can get her some results.
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Idk why people look down on females there are a couple of female players in the GM ladder, do not underestimate. Congrats to eSahara for the pick up
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She is so pretty D:
Wanna be my coach? :$
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There must be an error with the picture, the picture isn't loading completely.
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Sweden representtttttttttttttt!
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That picture says more than the article itself, imo. A different one would have been wise.
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This girl can't help the fact that she's hot. lol
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Well at least she's somewhat talented (masters).
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Ty for all the positive comments <3 I’ll do my best!
As expected there are quite a few negative comments too. And to you I would like to say the following.
If you don’t like the picture, just don’t look at it.
The girl scene is getting bigger and more girls only tournaments are coming. Teams want to be represented there too, and so they add girls to their team. Whether or not there should be tournaments for girls only is a different discussion.
About my skill, sure I’m not as good as the rest of the players on my team. But they can not represent eSahara in girls only tournaments, I can. Also, I'm getting better so don't count me out yet  And about my ladder stats, I don’t play ladder so much. But you are right, it doesn’t look good – I’ll fix it!
To all of you that always give negative comments when there is a post about a female player: What do you want to accomplish? Do you think more or less girls will play due to those comments?
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On December 14 2011 13:50 MaddeLisk wrote:Ty for all the positive comments <3 I’ll do my best! As expected there are quite a few negative comments too. And to you I would like to say the following. If you don’t like the picture, just don’t look at it. The girl scene is getting bigger and more girls only tournaments are coming. Teams want to be represented there too, and so they add girls to their team. Whether or not there should be tournaments for girls only is a different discussion. About my skill, sure I’m not as good as the rest of the players on my team. But they can not represent eSahara in girls only tournaments, I can. Also, I'm getting better so don't count me out yet And about my ladder stats, I don’t play ladder so much. But you are right, it doesn’t look good – I’ll fix it! To all of you that always give negative comments when there is a post about a female player: What do you want to accomplish? Do you think more or less girls will play due to those comments?
haters gonna hate... congratz... you must be pretty talented to be in masters while in grad school... TAing and research takes up so much of my time that i don't have time to play... plat zerg.... -.-'
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i actually thought that she was a pro at start, but apparently its just for promotion...
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Go Maddelisk Go!!!
Youve worked quite hard and i know it. You even refused to put your pic up on esl profiles just because of comments like these. Truth be told it shouldn't matter, be proud of who you are because you have reason to.
I personally know you worked hard and you even managed to beat luway in the female tournament who is allegedly a gm on taiwan. You did greatly and you deserve it. I wish you the best and hope you will do better and better in the upcoming tournaments.
Loves,
Suna
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i really think this needs to have a NSFW tag...
have several women sitting behind me in the library and so far i've had a large image of a girl with no visible clothing, some weird and suggestive anime picture, and a picture of some shirtless flex guy with destiny's face.
about 10 seconds ago:
"what the hell are you looking at?"
"er... a videogame thread"
"mhm"
at least add spoiler tags people
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On December 14 2011 16:34 TheDraken wrote:
i really think this needs to have a NSFW tag...
have several women sitting behind me in the library and so far i've had a large image of a girl with no visible clothing, some weird and suggestive anime picture, and a picture of some shirtless flex guy with destiny's face.
about 10 seconds ago:
"what the hell are you looking at?"
"er... a videogame thread"
"mhm"
at least add spoiler tags people
lol , don't be a kid .. you and your women work-mates live underworld ? never saw pictures with girls that show some of theyr skin ? girls around you are ninjas ? you can see just theyr eyes ? :D
come on kids , face the reality , there are girls like this everywhere around you , it's just that if you stay scared in your dorm and rarely go out you will make a heart atack seeing one of those ,,outside'' girls in a sc2 thread
that's a facebook picture btw.. seems fine to me
and there are still 20 IQ ppl that didn't understood that maddelisk is in esahara to represent our team in girls only tournaments , she also won some girl cups so she has achievements and repeating those ,, bla bla she is just masters , my friend that is top masters owned her in a 1v1 and he's not in any team '' is plain retarded and demonstrating how sad is to be an isolated nerd hahaha
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Are only attractive girls able to be good at Starcraft? I just find it hard to believe that every female to be signed by a team is. If this is just a coincidence that is fine. However if either teams only recruit women if they are attractive, or teams recruit people simply because they are then that is bad for eSports.
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On December 14 2011 01:59 iNcontroL wrote:
always the same on TL
Girl gets/does something eSports related.
Bunch of guys bring up "it's only because she is an attractive female."
Bunch of guys defend her by showing that other people are worse, do worse or she is legit.
Several pages of this goes back and forth.
If we could just be happy for her and the opportunity it'd be great. Unrealistic but great.
"BUT INCONTROL, A MORE DESERVING MALE COULD HAVE GOTTEN THAT SPOT! It isn't right that she gets stuff because she is a girl!"
I then make the argument about marketing, the real world blah blah blah... someday maybe.
On December 13 2011 11:28 Chill wrote:
The great thing about the forum is that he isn't talking to Desrow, he's talking to everyone else. So people can have conversations, contrast opinions, etc.
what chill said in the desrow thread earlier. the whole point of posting this on a forum is for conversation and discussion, not so that everyone can mindlessly say "gg wp". people are free to bring up the fact she isnt a pro level player, and the sexism shown by the team. just as you are free to bring up that marketing in a sponsorship driven business is a huge factor.
+ Show Spoiler +On December 14 2011 09:57 SACtheXchng wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 01:59 iNcontroL wrote:
always the same on TL
Girl gets/does something eSports related.
Bunch of guys bring up "it's only because she is an attractive female."
Bunch of guys defend her by showing that other people are worse, do worse or she is legit.
Several pages of this goes back and forth.
If we could just be happy for her and the opportunity it'd be great. Unrealistic but great.
"BUT INCONTROL, A MORE DESERVING MALE COULD HAVE GOTTEN THAT SPOT! It isn't right that she gets stuff because she is a girl!"
I then make the argument about marketing, the real world blah blah blah... someday maybe. The thread title and that ridiculous picture are pretty much telling the story here: **************************************************************************************************** "Dear community of basement dwelling, nerdy computer game playing virgins.
We present you a picture of a half naked good looking specimen of a female human being (you know? The ones you usually only get to see in Pr0n.), and guess what? She's actually interested in playing nerdy video games, too!!!111!1
From now on you can dream of maybe once in your life meet her on the ladder although you'd probably have to change your shorts after the game.**************************************************************************************************** I personally couldn't care less about more deserving male players or whatever. I'm a casual player in the gold league who'd get his ass kicked in a 1v1 by a player like MaddeLisk. However when a team does something blatantly obviously sexist like this thread, I think it's only fair to call them out for that.
I don't think we'll ever see an announcement thread like the following image I created out of Destiny's QxG thread, because that would be WTFLOL and a picture like that would have nothing to do with why he was hired. Also maybe because he's a basement dwelling, nerdy computer game playing virgin like all of us are and none of us even come close to having a body like that EDIT: I think I'll have to make myself a bit more clear here: I'm actually in favor of signing female players for the only reason BECAUSE they are female (and as long as they don't totally suck at the game). This model can actually work. Get females into it that are half decent skill wise and others will feel encouraged to do the same. Before you know it you'll have a bunch of not only half decent but actually seriously competitive female players. Just please don't present them like centerfolds.
so you want them in for their looks but you dont want them presented as models?
and you expect them to bring in a new female players, but why? if girls playing the game see only pretty faces getting to play on streams how is that going to drive them to play better or more? as far as i can see it will encourage them to believe that their looks will be more important than their skill and 5 hours at the spa will be more beneficial to their career than 5 hours on the game.
its also disrespectful to the girls who are being invited now. you are saying to them "your just a prototype girl gamer, we expect you to be shit and useless, but you just keep that pretty face smiling and we will pay you". must be so patronising for a girl to hear that. im sure they would rather hear that if they can compete they will get on a team, and if they cant they should join the queue of other semi pro players
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If it plays as well as it is beautiful, she will win all the tournaments ♥
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On December 14 2011 18:23 sirachman wrote:
Are only attractive girls able to be good at Starcraft? I just find it hard to believe that every female to be signed by a team is. If this is just a coincidence that is fine. However if either teams only recruit women if they are attractive, or teams recruit people simply because they are then that is bad for eSports.
I think you are missing the whole point. There are a lot of girls being approached because the female community is growing right now. I pointed out Madde to eSahara and suggested her because i have seen her results. Like i mentioned before she managed to beat luway who is a gm level on Taiwanese server. And luway has been respected by many and known by many as well. Just because they post a pretty picture which she should be proud of doesn't mean they only go for looks. No, Madde is one of the few female gamers who is Masters level in Europe who has competed in female tournaments and with pretty decent results.
Yes, female players are not to be compared with high level play of pro gamers which consists of only male gamers so far.
But you have that in a lot of sports even in chess and other types of competitive play.
Now as for people saying that teams hire girls for their looks. Mind you that a lot of teams, organizations hire certain people to represent them. Sometimes they hire them because they are a known personage in the community or they stand for something. It is not uncommon for certain big finance cooperations to sponsor a female athlete despite of her poor results just based on her looks.
In spite of all of this, like i mentioned before Madde has been training and playing alot of games to get to masters next to her school work and attending university and going to the gym on a daily basis ( yes ..). She is a hardworking woman and i commend her for that. I am proud that i helped her get into eSahara and wish her all the best in the future.
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It's not that she's beautiful.. AND good at starcraft.. it's because she is good at starcraft .. we didn't even saw pictures of her untill after 2 days or so after she joined our team .
The fact that she is also beautiful .. is just a detail .. it didn't mattered in her selection to the team lol .. what do you guys want .. after recruiting a player to kick him/her because he/she is too beautiful ? .. that's discrimination against beautiful ppl !!! :D
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Best of Luck, I hope you do well. MaddeLisk Fighting!
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On December 14 2011 20:32 DeathAngel[ro] wrote:
It's not that she's beautiful.. AND good at starcraft.. it's because she is good at starcraft .. we didn't even saw pictures of her untill after 2 days or so after she joined our team .
The fact that she is also beautiful .. is just a detail .. it didn't mattered in her selection to the team lol .. what do you guys want .. after recruiting a player to kick him/her because he/she is too beautiful ? .. that's discrimination against beautiful ppl !!! :D
Agreed.
And even if is she's not that good yet, she'll become a top master league pretty soon. Training with Naama will make her cheese proof, and Verdi has a lot of ladder experience. I saw her acc's history, it's mainly custom games with pretty good players. Just wait and see, i hope she'll get an invite to next zowie!
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She's cute.
And studying mathematics, gotta respect that.
Not many female students during my studies at physics.
However, as a SC2-player, I will not be impressed before results are showing and I sure as hell hope we wont see a fan-club because people will be joining based on the reason she's a female. Filled to the brim with white-knights hoping to get approval or some shit.
Sorry.. I mean strong individual members with an unique opinions of that for E-sports to grow, we need representatives for both sexes and for that to happen we need to show our support to the fragile ladies.
gl hf
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Google eSahara, and notice how there is almost no info on this next to unknown team available. This is a publicity stunt, and the fact that this obscure team has warranted this much discussion simply because they added an unknown player to their roster, and she happens to be female, is a bit disheartening.
And quit whitenighting. You guys tear into most players with criticism, but when it comes to female players, most of TL jumps to their defense. It's kinda ridiculous.
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On December 15 2011 17:56 RemoteLink wrote:
Google eSahara, and notice how there is almost no info on this next to unknown team available. This is a publicity stunt, and the fact that this obscure team has warranted this much discussion simply because they added an unknown player to their roster, and she happens to be female, is a bit disheartening.
And quit whitenighting. You guys tear into most players with criticism, but when it comes to female players, most of TL jumps to their defense. It's kinda ridiculous.
For someone with such strong negative opinions on this you are weirdly uninformed about SC2, are you sure you're on the right forum? Shouldn't you be trolling FB or Twitter? battle.net forums maybe?
Check (as in CheckPrime)
Naama
Satiini
Verdi
DeathAngel
cArn
And your Google foo seems nonexistant, let's see, was it hard to ignore
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=eSahara
THE FIRST LINK?! Or Liquipedia?!
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On December 15 2011 17:56 RemoteLink wrote:
Google eSahara, and notice how there is almost no info on this next to unknown team available. This is a publicity stunt, and the fact that this obscure team has warranted this much discussion simply because they added an unknown player to their roster, and she happens to be female, is a bit disheartening.
And quit whitenighting. You guys tear into most players with criticism, but when it comes to female players, most of TL jumps to their defense. It's kinda ridiculous.
"This much discussion"? If you disregard all the comments saying she doesn't deserve all this attention, you're left with only a couple of pages of short posts saying "Congrats" or "Girls hwaiting", basically. The ones generating "this much discussion" around this topic is in fact all of you who need to claim that she's not worth the attention. In a way, you're directly undermining your own position. If she's not worth the attention, why did you bother to post?
A good example:
The first Iron Lady Tournament thread got to 10 pages, thanks to all those complaining it shouldn't exist.
The most recent Iron Lady Tournament thread has 12 posts (i.e half a page), because there's no whiners there.
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Wow. Ph.D. student in math, likes working out, plays zerg, is scandinavian and a looker. Do want as wife! Gl with eSahara.
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Next time, please don't deliberately mention the gender just because shes a girl doesn't mean shes better or worse than males. The headlines is clearly just a way to gain publicity. Unless you'll start mentioning your headlines as "Male player has joined yada yada" you should not do this again.
It just causes disputes.
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no, she joined because she's a women so that's what we gotta know. As some told, we don't have to judge it, it's some marketing stuff, we just gotta be used of it, it's not much different as some really well-known players who can't play a the highest level but are making every tournament, because they are known and much appreciated. It's marketing, and marketing rule the world.
As long as girls play less than boyz, girls will be more "marketable" and then more "profitable" than boyz, just an offer / demand basic rule. So that they don't need as high of a level to be valuable to strong teams.
Besides that, Maddelisk is clearly in the top 5 among european girls, and for those who follow the female scene, it's a real big news, as she was maybe the best "teamless" girl available (You definitvely should have went to Nuit Blanche Madde : D)
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On December 14 2011 18:23 sirachman wrote:
Are only attractive girls able to be good at Starcraft? I just find it hard to believe that every female to be signed by a team is. If this is just a coincidence that is fine. However if either teams only recruit women if they are attractive, or teams recruit people simply because they are then that is bad for eSports.
To be fair, most male pro-gamers aren't exactly hard on the eyes either.
I'd do Naniwa.
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thanks for this, i will try to check out her stream. best of luck to Maddelisk!
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On December 14 2011 02:02 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 01:59 iNcontroL wrote:
always the same on TL
Girl gets/does something eSports related.
Bunch of guys bring up "it's only because she is an attractive female."
Bunch of guys defend her by showing that other people are worse, do worse or she is legit.
Several pages of this goes back and forth.
If we could just be happy for her and the opportunity it'd be great. Unrealistic but great.
"BUT INCONTROL, A MORE DESERVING MALE COULD HAVE GOTTEN THAT SPOT! It isn't right that she gets stuff because she is a girl!"
I then make the argument about marketing, the real world blah blah blah... someday maybe. Its not about that iNcontroL, i am just confused as to why they write "eSahara adds girl player" as the thread title, and have a picture like that in the OP. It is degrading female players, not helping them.
How in the world is that degrading?
Degrading: debasing; humiliating: degrading submission.
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On December 14 2011 21:46 Rustug wrote:
Best of Luck, I hope you do well. MaddeLisk Fighting!
I agree. Good luck MaddeLisk. :-)
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A PHD in mathematics? Now that's hardcore.
Good luck to her and the rapidly growing eSahara team.
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Masters Zerg and PhD Student Mathematics. I think it's a good pickup for the team =)
Congrats to MaddeLisk!
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37015 Posts
Huh..... eSahara stepping it up big time with all the new recruits Oo
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Yeah, that was what i thought too.
Still interested in seeing how eSahara is going to do in 2012 with all does new additions.
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hopefully this works out for all parties involved... *sigh*
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Wish you the best of luck MaddeLisk
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I'm sure MaddeLisk will silence nonbelievers over the next week or so.
GL HF! :D
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Wishing good luck to the MaddeLisk, I really hope we can soon have a reasonable male : female ratio with esports in the future. Not just Starcraft though, with all games that encompasses eSports.
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My kind of player. Gotta love math majors.
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You know i find it oddly suspicious that every potential pro female on every team just happens to be on the Plus side of the attractive scale.
Do you guys really just expect us to believe there aren't better female players that aren't, you know, gorgeous? I dont care that you're trying to include females in the community. In fact, I think it's totally great. But don't act like you're helping anything or being the slightest bit respectful when you're still ONLY choosing hot girls. It's like starting a peewee baseball league with the rule "NO FAT CHICKS"
it's still a huge objectification of women. Now i have no problems with the idea that there are pretty girls that are good at video games. Of course there are, but i hope all these jackasses acting like we shouldn't be skeptical of all these "progressive" teams stop acting all high and mighty about it They're looking for a female gamer for publicity, or they'd be looking for the best female gamers, not just the best prettiest ones.
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On January 05 2012 07:11 Eknoid4 wrote:
You know i find it oddly suspicious that every potential pro female on every team just happens to be on the Plus side of the attractive scale.
Do you guys really just expect us to believe there aren't better female players that aren't, you know, gorgeous? I dont care that you're trying to include females in the community. In fact, I think it's totally great. But don't act like you're helping anything or being the slightest bit respectful when you're still ONLY choosing hot girls. It's like starting a peewee baseball league with the rule "NO FAT CHICKS"
it's still a huge objectification of women. Now i have no problems with the idea that there are pretty girls that are good at video games. Of course there are, but i hope all these jackasses acting like we shouldn't be skeptical of all these "progressive" teams. They're looking for a female gamer for publicity, or they'd be looking for the best female gamers, not just the best prettiest ones.
kind of have to agree. they arent all gorgeous but they are at worst decent looking. from personal experience this doesnt really correlate. but that makes sense really, because they are only recruiting these gamers because they are women to begin with. so it's already a publicity stunt. but then to add ontop of it good looks... damn
that's just so demoralizing to the OTHER not so pretty female gamers, who are probably on the whole better. iffy statement i know but im considering a multitude of factors. with that said, any team who adds a female gamer loses points from me. and will lose my support to some extent
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eSahara adds FEMALE PLAYER MaddeLisk!
Is this sexism really needed?
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On January 05 2012 06:56 Paulo wrote:Yeah, that was what i thought too. Still interested in seeing how eSahara is going to do in 2012 with all does new additions.
No it really isn't interesting, it makes complete sense from a marketing perspective.
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On January 05 2012 07:18 PhiliBiRD wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2012 07:11 Eknoid4 wrote:
You know i find it oddly suspicious that every potential pro female on every team just happens to be on the Plus side of the attractive scale.
Do you guys really just expect us to believe there aren't better female players that aren't, you know, gorgeous? I dont care that you're trying to include females in the community. In fact, I think it's totally great. But don't act like you're helping anything or being the slightest bit respectful when you're still ONLY choosing hot girls. It's like starting a peewee baseball league with the rule "NO FAT CHICKS"
it's still a huge objectification of women. Now i have no problems with the idea that there are pretty girls that are good at video games. Of course there are, but i hope all these jackasses acting like we shouldn't be skeptical of all these "progressive" teams. They're looking for a female gamer for publicity, or they'd be looking for the best female gamers, not just the best prettiest ones. kind of have to agree. they arent all gorgeous but they are at worst decent looking. from personal experience this doesnt really correlate. but that makes sense really, because they are only recruiting these gamers because they are women to begin with. so it's already a publicity stunt. but then to add ontop of it good looks... damn that's just so demoralizing to the OTHER not so pretty female gamers, who are probably on the whole better. iffy statement i know but im considering a multitude of factors. with that said, any team who adds a female gamer loses points from me. and will lose my support to some extent
I agree with this. And if they TRULY aren't picking them that heavily by looks, then they should be compelled to find it fair to explain themselves and/or deny it, if they are TRULY picking up female gamers to raise awareness, rather than just for attention.
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male or female, all SC players are attractive
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I don't understand.
She is a girl yes, but you don't have to make such a big deal out of it.
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if it is her "first game ever" that she really plays, and she's already in master league then that's talent. Also, phd in mathematics deserves credit.
This is different from e.g. the slayers girl.
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This is really getting ridiculous, I wish the best of luck to her but all these teams are just picking girls up as publicity and I would much prefer to see a good player who puts in time and effort and has some great potential then someone who gets on a team simply because there female, and its also really off putting for girl gamers who actually try really hard to get better and get noticed based on skill not there looks but then again why should we be surprised girls always get ahead in games despite there being loads of better people out there. Good luck I guess
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Well low masters is still better than 95% of SC2 players so that's something, and getting owned by top players is the best way to improve if you're talented...so if she spends 12+ hours a day training with the pros and gets in grand master then she'll have my respect...
It is really shameless how they just add attractive female gamers...and they choose to show a "model style" picture instead of her gaming with a headset on, or at a tournament :/
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On January 05 2012 07:36 RunAwayCactuar wrote:
Well low masters is still better than 95% of SC2 players so that's something, and getting owned by top players is the best way to improve if you're talented...so if she spends 12+ hours a day training with the pros and gets in grand master then she'll have my respect...
It is really shameless how they just add attractive female gamers...and they choose to show a "model style" picture instead of her gaming with a headset on, or at a tournament :/
Adding in that low masters is better than 95% of SC2 players without mentioning that 99.5% of SC2 players are casual players seems to be a bit misleading, don't you think? I'm high masters and I know I'll never be picked up for a pro team
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On January 05 2012 07:36 RunAwayCactuar wrote:
It is really shameless how they just add attractive female gamers...and they choose to show a "model style" picture instead of her gaming with a headset on, or at a tournament :/
I'm glad that I'm not the only one noticing that trend. It is annoying to see and unfair not only to other, anonymous women in the crowds, who are not as outgoing/extrovert and 'attractive', but also to guys, who are of equal skill level, and yet, such team would never recruit them, because they are not enough "model style". I hate this new trend when teams sign up females the way they do.
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Sorry, but the short interview basically proves that she does not know a lot about Starcraft.
I play as zerg in Master league. My favourite strategy, well I like to play mass lings vs terran or mass muta vs ptotoss. But I'm not sure I have a favourite one..
This is an exaggerated announcement and why are you putting such a big picture in the announcement and the interview and everything else in spoilers? Seriously.
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On December 14 2011 01:26 Cyro wrote:
"Girl player" in the headlines so that the name is bumped off thread list.
Ive never heard of this team before, and this is definatly not the right way to promote them... thread titles like this invalidate female gamers everywhere.
if youve never heard of eSahara you have to live under a rock xD
they also have teams in other games and also in sc2 they have been not that popular but for someone who knows the scene they were around quite a bit in the past few months
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shes goregeous~! girl better than me too (
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Congratulations and good luck to her. I do hope she'll be able to enhance is level thanks to her mates and thus become as good at SCII as cute (and cute she is indeed).
Slightly off topic as we don't know if she'll compete in traditional circuit or not, but I can't understand the point of female tournaments and leagues.
In traditional sports, there are both male and female category because of physiological differences (strength, weight, tall, etcetera). Fair enough. But being good at SC2 required intellectual and strategic capacities plus dexterity, things, as far as we know, absolutely independent of gender, except maybe due to sociological bias. So, what's the point of female tournaments and leagues ? It looks to me more sexist and indefensible to segregate women in women only league than accept the fact that there are actually few good female players, and that we must recognize them for their in-game talents if they deserve to.
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On January 05 2012 07:59 sVnteen wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 01:26 Cyro wrote:
"Girl player" in the headlines so that the name is bumped off thread list.
Ive never heard of this team before, and this is definatly not the right way to promote them... thread titles like this invalidate female gamers everywhere. if youve never heard of eSahara you have to live under a rock xD they also have teams in other games and also in sc2 they have been not that popular but for someone who knows the scene they were around quite a bit in the past few months
About a month ago, eSahara was literally nobody in SC2, and this announcement was made before they picked up players like Check, Maka and Pepe, and before Naama and Deathangel headed to Korea.
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On January 05 2012 08:04 VirgilSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2012 07:59 sVnteen wrote:On December 14 2011 01:26 Cyro wrote:
"Girl player" in the headlines so that the name is bumped off thread list.
Ive never heard of this team before, and this is definatly not the right way to promote them... thread titles like this invalidate female gamers everywhere. if youve never heard of eSahara you have to live under a rock xD they also have teams in other games and also in sc2 they have been not that popular but for someone who knows the scene they were around quite a bit in the past few months About a month ago, eSahara was literally nobody in SC2, and this announcement was made before they picked up players like Check, Maka and Pepe, and before Naama and Deathangel headed to Korea.
but they had naama deathangel and verdi before
verdi long time r1gm on EU
naama amazing run at dreamhack
and deathangel always doing decent at everything he does and winning some online cups
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eSahara is starting to get a very good line up.
GL HF GG
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and she joins because she has potential or because she has something elsE? lol
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This makes me feel bad for all the talented players, both Male and Female that seem to be losing spots to players who are being chosen, at least partially, based on their sex and looks.
I'm not usually critical of these sorts of announcements, partly because the last 2 (Flo and Aphrodite) have at least shown that they're good players, has she ever even tried to play in online tournaments?. Sure she might be pretty good too, and maybe she'll get better by gaining the advantages of being on a pro-team, but there are lots of better players who don't have teams, who would also gain all the same advantages if they'd got the place.
edit: Also whats with the picture, it looks like it belongs in someones modeling portfolio, not on a post of a team announcing a player, which I assume they want to be a credible post.
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On January 05 2012 08:38 CHOMPMannER wrote:
and she joins because she has potential or because she has something elsE? lol
Let's be honest, girls probably won't win MLG season finals or Code-S, but they can still get good placements and bring in more casual fans who wouldn't watch SC2 otherwise.
It's a good PR move and those girls are still better than 95% of the general players (afaik every girl game is ~ mid-high masters).
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esahara probably got a shit load of money this year, they're not stopping to make announcements
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On January 05 2012 09:28 Sadistx wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2012 08:38 CHOMPMannER wrote:
and she joins because she has potential or because she has something elsE? lol Let's be honest, girls probably won't win MLG season finals or Code-S, but they can still get good placements and bring in more casual fans who wouldn't watch SC2 otherwise. It's a good PR move and those girls are still better than 95% of the general players (afaik every girl game is ~ mid-high masters).
Only masters player I know of is Flo. Aphrodite I guess qualifies as well. The rest are nowhere close.
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On January 05 2012 08:00 Serimek wrote:
Congratulations and good luck to her. I do hope she'll be able to enhance is level thanks to her mates and thus become as good at SCII as cute (and cute she is indeed).
Slightly off topic as we don't know if she'll compete in traditional circuit or not, but I can't understand the point of female tournaments and leagues.
In traditional sports, there are both male and female category because of physiological differences (strength, weight, tall, etcetera). Fair enough. But being good at SC2 required intellectual and strategic capacities plus dexterity, things, as far as we know, absolutely independent of gender, except maybe due to sociological bias. So, what's the point of female tournaments and leagues ? It looks to me more sexist and indefensible to segregate women in women only league than accept the fact that there are actually few good female players, and that we must recognize them for their in-game talents if they deserve to.
Ever heard of chess?
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Russian Federation748 Posts
Can she really be at the same time a progamer (even if not a top-notch one) and a mathematics Phd-student ? Now that would be impressive. But also keep her from really encountering real success, I assume.
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On January 05 2012 09:48 gregnog wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2012 09:28 Sadistx wrote:On January 05 2012 08:38 CHOMPMannER wrote:
and she joins because she has potential or because she has something elsE? lol Let's be honest, girls probably won't win MLG season finals or Code-S, but they can still get good placements and bring in more casual fans who wouldn't watch SC2 otherwise. It's a good PR move and those girls are still better than 95% of the general players (afaik every girl game is ~ mid-high masters). Only masters player I know of is Flo. Aphrodite I guess qualifies as well. The rest are nowhere close.
I believe megumibear is in masters too since she plays some with pros on her stream sometimes. Aphrodite is probably the best female player right now.
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On December 14 2011 01:59 iNcontroL wrote:
always the same on TL
Girl gets/does something eSports related.
Bunch of guys bring up "it's only because she is an attractive female."
Bunch of guys defend her by showing that other people are worse, do worse or she is legit.
Several pages of this goes back and forth.
If we could just be happy for her and the opportunity it'd be great. Unrealistic but great.
"BUT INCONTROL, A MORE DESERVING MALE COULD HAVE GOTTEN THAT SPOT! It isn't right that she gets stuff because she is a girl!"
I then make the argument about marketing, the real world blah blah blah... someday maybe.
I dunno, this thread has been pretty tame. I think you're seeking out the trolls.
With all the recent interest in pro teams picking up female players, I wonder if there's actually going to be more female-only tournaments. Its definitely something to think about.
Actually, I'm more impressed by her going after a Math PhD than her looks. I couldn't imagine holding masters on EU while going postgrad in Math, of all things. I bet she's and probably working too. Although it helps shes Swedish, thats like 66% Korean
All trolling aside, I like it because she definitely beats the stereotype of gamers all being acne infested unemployed nerds living in their parent's basement. God knows we have too many of those in SC2 esports.
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I wonder if a mediocre non GM male player who was very attractive and had the body of a male model would get the same treatment as being able to join a team when they did not have the skill to do so and then having the community come down on them for it. Somehow I feel the answer is no, since the scene is already dominated by males. But just an interesting thought I had with people talking about how it's odd that only attractive females ever get picked up by teams.
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United States97276 Posts
On January 05 2012 10:36 zoLo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2012 09:48 gregnog wrote:On January 05 2012 09:28 Sadistx wrote:On January 05 2012 08:38 CHOMPMannER wrote:
and she joins because she has potential or because she has something elsE? lol Let's be honest, girls probably won't win MLG season finals or Code-S, but they can still get good placements and bring in more casual fans who wouldn't watch SC2 otherwise. It's a good PR move and those girls are still better than 95% of the general players (afaik every girl game is ~ mid-high masters). Only masters player I know of is Flo. Aphrodite I guess qualifies as well. The rest are nowhere close. I believe megumibear is in masters too since she plays some with pros on her stream sometimes. Aphrodite is probably the best female player right now.
Colagirl from China was solid too
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On January 05 2012 10:38 RoboBob wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 01:59 iNcontroL wrote:
always the same on TL
Girl gets/does something eSports related.
Bunch of guys bring up "it's only because she is an attractive female."
Bunch of guys defend her by showing that other people are worse, do worse or she is legit.
Several pages of this goes back and forth.
If we could just be happy for her and the opportunity it'd be great. Unrealistic but great.
"BUT INCONTROL, A MORE DESERVING MALE COULD HAVE GOTTEN THAT SPOT! It isn't right that she gets stuff because she is a girl!"
I then make the argument about marketing, the real world blah blah blah... someday maybe. I dunno, this thread has been pretty tame. I think you're seeking out the trolls. With all the recent interest in pro teams picking up female players, I wonder if there's actually going to be more female-only tournaments. Its definitely something to think about. Actually, I'm more impressed by her going after a Math PhD than her looks. I couldn't imagine holding masters on EU while going postgrad in Math, of all things. I bet she's and probably working too. Although it helps shes Swedish, thats like 66% Korean All trolling aside, I like it because she definitely beats the stereotype of gamers all being acne infested unemployed nerds living in their parent's basement. God knows we have too many of those in SC2 esports.
You dont have to work when you study in Sweden. You get 2800 SEK a month from the state and you can borrow another ~6000 a month SEK if you want to (from the state with really low interest)
8800 SEK is 1291.23 dollars according to internet
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Why are there, would there be "woman only' tournaments. Its not a physical sport were you have to seperate the weaker females. Its a stategy game.
Can we just keep the current tournaments as "men only" then?
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On January 05 2012 10:58 skatblast wrote:
Why are there, would there be "woman only' tournaments. Its not a physical sport were you have to seperate the weaker females. Its a stategy game.
Can we just keep the current tournaments as "men only" then?
Same goes for chess, still there's womens tournaments so they atleast get some attention.
Anyway, who cares if they signed her for marketing purposes.. that's what companies/brands have to do. No need to attack her or eS for it.
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On December 14 2011 01:22 RetoX wrote:
Hi! My name is Madeleine Leander. I'm a PhD-student in mathematics.
Seems she has more brains then people in this thread....
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On January 05 2012 11:06 nicknack wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 01:22 RetoX wrote:
Hi! My name is Madeleine Leander. I'm a PhD-student in mathematics.
Seems she has more brains then people in this thread....
This. It takes brains to pursue a PHD in anything, and IMO that goes double for fields like mathematics. That said, I can't see a full time graduate student having enough time to play SC2 enough to compete at the highest level.
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On January 05 2012 11:03 discobaas wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2012 10:58 skatblast wrote:
Why are there, would there be "woman only' tournaments. Its not a physical sport were you have to seperate the weaker females. Its a stategy game.
Can we just keep the current tournaments as "men only" then? Same goes for chess, still there's womens tournaments so they atleast get some attention. Anyway, who cares if they signed her for marketing purposes.. that's what companies/brands have to do. No need to attack her or eS for it.
So, she has a PhD is mathematics but cant compete in a thinking game with common nerds? Seems like competing in girl only tournaments belittles yourself. Because clearly woman only tournaments mean "woman who arnt good enough to compete in normal tournaments"
If theres no "guy only" tournaments there should be no "woman only" tournaments.
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On January 05 2012 11:14 skatblast wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2012 11:03 discobaas wrote:On January 05 2012 10:58 skatblast wrote:
Why are there, would there be "woman only' tournaments. Its not a physical sport were you have to seperate the weaker females. Its a stategy game.
Can we just keep the current tournaments as "men only" then? Same goes for chess, still there's womens tournaments so they atleast get some attention. Anyway, who cares if they signed her for marketing purposes.. that's what companies/brands have to do. No need to attack her or eS for it. So, she has a PhD is mathematics but cant compete in a thinking game with common nerds? Seems like competing in girl only tournaments belittles yourself. Because clearly woman only tournaments mean "woman who arnt good enough to compete in normal tournaments" If theres no "guy only" tournaments there should be no "woman only" tournaments.
It's not only a thinking game. lol
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On December 14 2011 07:43 sQueez wrote:She sure as hell has some brains.. Mathematic paper..
Set theory makes even mathematicians bored. Damn I hate that stuff. Differential equations and statistical theory are infinitely (power sets over!) more interesting.
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On January 05 2012 10:58 skatblast wrote:
Why are there, would there be "woman only' tournaments. Its not a physical sport were you have to seperate the weaker females. Its a stategy game.
Can we just keep the current tournaments as "men only" then?
Marketing. Its the sad truth, although I'm sure if a tournament came out that was "men only" people would be getting mad.
Why is the title of this thread "Adds female player"? Why cant it just be esahara adds a player?
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^ Why are they adding mediocre masters players to a "professional" team?
I am confused by all of the female additions, they simply can't compete with the male counterparts, or at least they haven't proved they can.. what use do professional teams have with them? *shrug*
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Seems like eSahara just wants to get their name out there. pick up a female gamer, send two players to Korea, sign two Koreans.
Guess they have to though, it's not like they're players are winning anything and bringing notoriety that way.
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I really want female progamers to actually do well and not turn into some marketing gimmick.
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Everyone who is talking about how she isn't good is need to be quiet. The best way to get females involved in the pro scene is getting them on pro teams! She maybe be low masters now, but who knows where she will end up after some serious practice with good pro players. It would be huge for a team to have a female player develop into a top pro player. It is worth the risk imo to have at least 1 female player on a team.
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On January 05 2012 12:05 AdAckbar wrote:
Everyone who is talking about how she isn't good is need to be quiet. The best way to get females involved in the pro scene is getting them on pro teams! She maybe be low masters now, but who knows where she will end up after some serious practice with good pro players. It would be huge for a team to have a female player develop into a top pro player. It is worth the risk imo to have at least 1 female player on a team.
While this may be true, explain to us how a PhD student in her mid twenties is going to develop into a decent GM player, let alone a mediocre pro player, let alone a top pro player. It's not gonna happen, this is publicity. Not to mention that there is no risk involved. Unless eSahara pays salaries to their players, there is 0 investment on their part, especially since I doubt we'll see her in any live events.
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Nothing will come of this as usual.
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When I see Masters player, this is a disappointing thing to hear. If both genders are to be treated equally, how come players of lower caliber on the condition of being female are allowed into teams whereas the standard for males is higher. This is ridiculous and if the female eSports scene is to be given credence, no special treatment should be allowed.
I give credit to her intelligence and I do not discredit her as person. She may have a fantastic personality, but as there has been no special mention of her assets (knowledge) being utilized for some other purpose, this I believe is unacceptable.
Sigh...
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IMO it's way too early for female progamers to make an appearence, maybe in a few years we'll see some talents pop out and compete with the pros. But for now, the SC2 scene is just being discovered by the female gender.
I guess it just feels forced to me. That and calling her a player makes me roll my eyes, at least call her a trainee or something.
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Naked...
Naked....
Naked....
NAKED!!!
DENIED.
User was warned for this post
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id love to be X Rated right now with my words. she deserves a thread full of compliments imo.
sexy girl in the pic.
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i personally dont care for girls in gaming but can see the pro teams point of view (those with a brain can think of the obvious reasons).
but stop bashing on their skill, most of the posters in this thread arent even masters i bet.
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Poor picture choice definitely, but she's a pretty lady. Not that that matters, or makes the picture look less naked. But eh, it's a shame this has to be mentioned. Some day men will be wearing low cut tops / dresses and i will be forced to make similar comments.
We never did get those Huk shirtless pics he suggested on twitter did we? :D
Good luck to the lady~!
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O: Didn't know hot chicks played SC
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Dear MaddeLisk,
I just wanted to express my deep respect for you and the other female (pro-)gamers who are putting up with stuff like this ^
I can't imagine how it must feel to dedicate yourself to a game, take the step into public by joining a pro-team and putting yourself out there to compete while you know there are a ton of angry little nerds waiting for you to fail.
I don't think I would be willing or able to handle this kind of negativity and pressure, in fact most of the time I'm even too scared to play customs with my real-life-friends.
I wish you all the best in eSahara and that everything will turn out as you hoped for.
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I'm a masters player, can I be on a pro team? Oh wait I forgot, I'm male. Maybe I'll under-go a sex change.
User was warned for this post
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nice picture, she looks a bit...........old though?
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On January 05 2012 12:41 CatChief wrote:
I'm a masters player, can I be on a pro team? Oh wait I forgot, I'm male. Maybe I'll under-go a sex change.
any player can request for a test, valentin@esahara.net
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She look pretty as (censored) on that picture.
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GL HF DD.
Good to see the sport grow and have some female pros.
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On January 05 2012 12:41 CatChief wrote:
I'm a masters player, can I be on a pro team? Oh wait I forgot, I'm male. Maybe I'll under-go a sex change.
how immature can you get. theres a reason why theres women only sc2 events. its the same in real sports (nba vs wnba)
mods really should really start doing something about all these stupid comments.
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On January 05 2012 12:59 aintz wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2012 12:41 CatChief wrote:
I'm a masters player, can I be on a pro team? Oh wait I forgot, I'm male. Maybe I'll under-go a sex change. how immature can you get. theres a reason why theres women only sc2 events. its the same in real sports (nba vs wnba) mods really should really start doing something about all these stupid comments.
That reason is because there is no woman putting the 10 hours in a day to compete, not a single one of them can even make KR grandmasters.
There is nothing physically stopping them either.
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Congrats Maddelisk!! met you once at Stockholm, a very sweet girl and a hella of a player.
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On January 05 2012 12:59 aintz wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2012 12:41 CatChief wrote:
I'm a masters player, can I be on a pro team? Oh wait I forgot, I'm male. Maybe I'll under-go a sex change. how immature can you get. theres a reason why theres women only sc2 events. its the same in real sports (nba vs wnba) mods really should really start doing something about all these stupid comments.
The problem most people have is that in real sports women have disadvantageous physique compared to males. E-Sports does not require any form of physical workout which means women have no disadvantages compared to men in e-sports. Why women should have it easier is beyond me, put them up against the men and when someone actually starts winning then perhaps the communities will recognize them as progamers.
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As long as she was recruited for female tournaments, this makes perfect sense. Good luck.
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On January 05 2012 13:02 jyLee wrote:
As long as she was recruited for female tournaments, this makes perfect sense. Good luck.
Yes the many high profile female tournaments
lets cut to the chase here folks..
Guys are recruited for skill
Girls for looks
and Destiny... for, well.. being Destiny
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On January 05 2012 13:02 Mashmed wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2012 12:59 aintz wrote:On January 05 2012 12:41 CatChief wrote:
I'm a masters player, can I be on a pro team? Oh wait I forgot, I'm male. Maybe I'll under-go a sex change. how immature can you get. theres a reason why theres women only sc2 events. its the same in real sports (nba vs wnba) mods really should really start doing something about all these stupid comments. The problem most people have is that in real sports women have disadvantageous physique compared to males. E-Sports does not require any form of physical workout which means women have no disadvantages compared to men in e-sports. Why women should have it easier is beyond me, put them up against the men and when someone actually starts winning then perhaps the communities will recognize them as progamers.
Second this.
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On January 05 2012 13:01 SafeAsCheese wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2012 12:59 aintz wrote:On January 05 2012 12:41 CatChief wrote:
I'm a masters player, can I be on a pro team? Oh wait I forgot, I'm male. Maybe I'll under-go a sex change. how immature can you get. theres a reason why theres women only sc2 events. its the same in real sports (nba vs wnba) mods really should really start doing something about all these stupid comments. That reason is because there is no woman putting the 10 hours in a day to compete, not a single one of them can even make KR grandmasters. There is nothing physically stopping them either.
how is 10hours a day playing sc2 not a physical act? and if you dont know the difference between how women and men think/do...
why you kids get so worked up on pro teams recruiting women to compete against other women is beyond me. and what do you know, most of these comments are from so called "democratic" countries.
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On January 05 2012 12:41 CatChief wrote:
I'm a masters player, can I be on a pro team? Oh wait I forgot, I'm male. Maybe I'll under-go a sex change.
This is so fucking bullshit. You think all the top 200 players in the world, aka grandmasters are all in a pro team?
There are also players in "pro-teams' that are masters as well.
Oh excuse me.
I forgot now everybody is going to flame me because they can't get it over with the fact that picking up female players is not a bad idea in terms of all the aspects of it and that there are going to be regular female tournaments as well. Sure, you can name it as all male tournament, then go question the Olympics -_-?
But ya calm down please -_- I'm sick of seeing the same 2 things whenever there are girls who get picked up. Or when drama like Naniwa changing teams. They are just players looking out for themselves, being smart, and trying to do what they love.
Maybe one day if everyone stop spending time hating they will spend more time trying to grow eSports and make it a better place.
Be the change you wish to see in the world.
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On January 05 2012 13:10 aintz wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2012 13:01 SafeAsCheese wrote:On January 05 2012 12:59 aintz wrote:On January 05 2012 12:41 CatChief wrote:
I'm a masters player, can I be on a pro team? Oh wait I forgot, I'm male. Maybe I'll under-go a sex change. how immature can you get. theres a reason why theres women only sc2 events. its the same in real sports (nba vs wnba) mods really should really start doing something about all these stupid comments. That reason is because there is no woman putting the 10 hours in a day to compete, not a single one of them can even make KR grandmasters. There is nothing physically stopping them either. how is 10hours a day playing sc2 not a physical act? and if you dont know the difference between how women and men think/do... why you kids get so worked up on pro teams recruiting women to compete against other women is beyond me. and what do you know, most of these comments are from so called "democratic" countries.
I played 500 games in 2 weeks to get from plat to masters. How many hours a day did you think I played?
TLDR: If you want to do it, you can do it. male or female.
Who said women can't play 10 hours or more a day? Also time spent training is not equal to how good you become.
You have to train correctly and not waste time doing the same wrong thing over again because those things eventually become a bad habit. EVERY SINGLE pro player's nightmare are bad habits because they are the hardest to train.
That's why new players have a higher possibility of getting better faster, hence the oGsMC, stephano, naniwa winning mlg through open bracket boom.
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On January 05 2012 13:11 kellymilkies wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2012 12:41 CatChief wrote:
I'm a masters player, can I be on a pro team? Oh wait I forgot, I'm male. Maybe I'll under-go a sex change. This is so fucking bullshit. You think all the top 200 players in the world, aka grandmasters are all in a pro team? There are also players in "pro-teams' that are masters as well. Oh excuse me. I forgot now everybody is going to flame me because they can't get it over with the fact that picking up female players is not a bad idea in terms of all the aspects of it and that there are going to be regular female tournaments as well. Sure, you can name it as all male tournament, then go question the Olympics -_-? But ya calm down please -_- I'm sick of seeing the same 2 things whenever there are girls who get picked up. Or when drama like Naniwa changing teams. They are just players looking out for themselves, being smart, and trying to do what they love. Maybe one day if everyone stop spending time hating they will spend more time trying to grow eSports and make it a better place. Be the change you wish to see in the world.
After my sex change I'll have easier competition in girl only tournaments, it's a pretty good PR move for me to get a sex change.
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On January 05 2012 13:15 CatChief wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2012 13:11 kellymilkies wrote:On January 05 2012 12:41 CatChief wrote:
I'm a masters player, can I be on a pro team? Oh wait I forgot, I'm male. Maybe I'll under-go a sex change. This is so fucking bullshit. You think all the top 200 players in the world, aka grandmasters are all in a pro team? There are also players in "pro-teams' that are masters as well. Oh excuse me. I forgot now everybody is going to flame me because they can't get it over with the fact that picking up female players is not a bad idea in terms of all the aspects of it and that there are going to be regular female tournaments as well. Sure, you can name it as all male tournament, then go question the Olympics -_-? But ya calm down please -_- I'm sick of seeing the same 2 things whenever there are girls who get picked up. Or when drama like Naniwa changing teams. They are just players looking out for themselves, being smart, and trying to do what they love. Maybe one day if everyone stop spending time hating they will spend more time trying to grow eSports and make it a better place. Be the change you wish to see in the world. After my sex change I'll have easier competition in girl only tournaments, it's a pretty good PR move for me to get a sex change.
or you could also grow some balls and try to compete with other males
but wait, are you a male? doesn't seem like it
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The interview was slightly lacking, but best of luck to Madeleine and eSahara! If she's really training with Naama and Check, I'd expect really quick improvement! Beautiful picture as well
Props to the mods for not putting up with the truly stupid, stupid things people say in this thread.
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On January 05 2012 13:24 ReignFayth wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2012 13:15 CatChief wrote:On January 05 2012 13:11 kellymilkies wrote:On January 05 2012 12:41 CatChief wrote:
I'm a masters player, can I be on a pro team? Oh wait I forgot, I'm male. Maybe I'll under-go a sex change. This is so fucking bullshit. You think all the top 200 players in the world, aka grandmasters are all in a pro team? There are also players in "pro-teams' that are masters as well. Oh excuse me. I forgot now everybody is going to flame me because they can't get it over with the fact that picking up female players is not a bad idea in terms of all the aspects of it and that there are going to be regular female tournaments as well. Sure, you can name it as all male tournament, then go question the Olympics -_-? But ya calm down please -_- I'm sick of seeing the same 2 things whenever there are girls who get picked up. Or when drama like Naniwa changing teams. They are just players looking out for themselves, being smart, and trying to do what they love. Maybe one day if everyone stop spending time hating they will spend more time trying to grow eSports and make it a better place. Be the change you wish to see in the world. After my sex change I'll have easier competition in girl only tournaments, it's a pretty good PR move for me to get a sex change. or you could also grow some balls and try to compete with other males but wait, are you a male? doesn't seem like it
Ad hominem, but I'll respond anyways, which would be easier to win: an MLG tournament or a female-only tournament? I have almost no hope in competing with male players because they work hard and are good at the game. But I could totally be a fierce competitor in a female-only tournament!
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PhD in Math o.o
I can't say I understand why so many teams are jumping to get a girl. If the girl is good then I have no problem, when they start picking up master league it gets questionable.
Maybe they are expecting an explosion of female only tournies where they need representation or something.
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"EG adds male player HuK!"
...Nope, doesn't sound right.
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On January 05 2012 13:29 CatChief wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2012 13:24 ReignFayth wrote:On January 05 2012 13:15 CatChief wrote:On January 05 2012 13:11 kellymilkies wrote:On January 05 2012 12:41 CatChief wrote:
I'm a masters player, can I be on a pro team? Oh wait I forgot, I'm male. Maybe I'll under-go a sex change. This is so fucking bullshit. You think all the top 200 players in the world, aka grandmasters are all in a pro team? There are also players in "pro-teams' that are masters as well. Oh excuse me. I forgot now everybody is going to flame me because they can't get it over with the fact that picking up female players is not a bad idea in terms of all the aspects of it and that there are going to be regular female tournaments as well. Sure, you can name it as all male tournament, then go question the Olympics -_-? But ya calm down please -_- I'm sick of seeing the same 2 things whenever there are girls who get picked up. Or when drama like Naniwa changing teams. They are just players looking out for themselves, being smart, and trying to do what they love. Maybe one day if everyone stop spending time hating they will spend more time trying to grow eSports and make it a better place. Be the change you wish to see in the world. After my sex change I'll have easier competition in girl only tournaments, it's a pretty good PR move for me to get a sex change. or you could also grow some balls and try to compete with other males but wait, are you a male? doesn't seem like it Ad hominem, but I'll respond anyways, which would be easier to win: an MLG tournament or a female-only tournament? I have almost no hope in competing with male players because they work hard and are good at the game. But I could totally be a fierce competitor in a female-only tournament!
congrats bro you can beat some girls at starcraft
now man the fuck up
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On January 05 2012 13:32 ReignFayth wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2012 13:29 CatChief wrote:On January 05 2012 13:24 ReignFayth wrote:On January 05 2012 13:15 CatChief wrote:On January 05 2012 13:11 kellymilkies wrote:On January 05 2012 12:41 CatChief wrote:
I'm a masters player, can I be on a pro team? Oh wait I forgot, I'm male. Maybe I'll under-go a sex change. This is so fucking bullshit. You think all the top 200 players in the world, aka grandmasters are all in a pro team? There are also players in "pro-teams' that are masters as well. Oh excuse me. I forgot now everybody is going to flame me because they can't get it over with the fact that picking up female players is not a bad idea in terms of all the aspects of it and that there are going to be regular female tournaments as well. Sure, you can name it as all male tournament, then go question the Olympics -_-? But ya calm down please -_- I'm sick of seeing the same 2 things whenever there are girls who get picked up. Or when drama like Naniwa changing teams. They are just players looking out for themselves, being smart, and trying to do what they love. Maybe one day if everyone stop spending time hating they will spend more time trying to grow eSports and make it a better place. Be the change you wish to see in the world. After my sex change I'll have easier competition in girl only tournaments, it's a pretty good PR move for me to get a sex change. or you could also grow some balls and try to compete with other males but wait, are you a male? doesn't seem like it Ad hominem, but I'll respond anyways, which would be easier to win: an MLG tournament or a female-only tournament? I have almost no hope in competing with male players because they work hard and are good at the game. But I could totally be a fierce competitor in a female-only tournament! congrats bro you can beat some girls at starcraft now man the fuck up
You can't compete with men in starcraft.
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On January 05 2012 13:33 CatChief wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2012 13:32 ReignFayth wrote:On January 05 2012 13:29 CatChief wrote:On January 05 2012 13:24 ReignFayth wrote:On January 05 2012 13:15 CatChief wrote:On January 05 2012 13:11 kellymilkies wrote:On January 05 2012 12:41 CatChief wrote:
I'm a masters player, can I be on a pro team? Oh wait I forgot, I'm male. Maybe I'll under-go a sex change. This is so fucking bullshit. You think all the top 200 players in the world, aka grandmasters are all in a pro team? There are also players in "pro-teams' that are masters as well. Oh excuse me. I forgot now everybody is going to flame me because they can't get it over with the fact that picking up female players is not a bad idea in terms of all the aspects of it and that there are going to be regular female tournaments as well. Sure, you can name it as all male tournament, then go question the Olympics -_-? But ya calm down please -_- I'm sick of seeing the same 2 things whenever there are girls who get picked up. Or when drama like Naniwa changing teams. They are just players looking out for themselves, being smart, and trying to do what they love. Maybe one day if everyone stop spending time hating they will spend more time trying to grow eSports and make it a better place. Be the change you wish to see in the world. After my sex change I'll have easier competition in girl only tournaments, it's a pretty good PR move for me to get a sex change. or you could also grow some balls and try to compete with other males but wait, are you a male? doesn't seem like it Ad hominem, but I'll respond anyways, which would be easier to win: an MLG tournament or a female-only tournament? I have almost no hope in competing with male players because they work hard and are good at the game. But I could totally be a fierce competitor in a female-only tournament! congrats bro you can beat some girls at starcraft now man the fuck up You can't compete with men in starcraft.
Solution: become Korean instead.
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On January 05 2012 13:32 ReignFayth wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2012 13:29 CatChief wrote:On January 05 2012 13:24 ReignFayth wrote:On January 05 2012 13:15 CatChief wrote:On January 05 2012 13:11 kellymilkies wrote:On January 05 2012 12:41 CatChief wrote:
I'm a masters player, can I be on a pro team? Oh wait I forgot, I'm male. Maybe I'll under-go a sex change. This is so fucking bullshit. You think all the top 200 players in the world, aka grandmasters are all in a pro team? There are also players in "pro-teams' that are masters as well. Oh excuse me. I forgot now everybody is going to flame me because they can't get it over with the fact that picking up female players is not a bad idea in terms of all the aspects of it and that there are going to be regular female tournaments as well. Sure, you can name it as all male tournament, then go question the Olympics -_-? But ya calm down please -_- I'm sick of seeing the same 2 things whenever there are girls who get picked up. Or when drama like Naniwa changing teams. They are just players looking out for themselves, being smart, and trying to do what they love. Maybe one day if everyone stop spending time hating they will spend more time trying to grow eSports and make it a better place. Be the change you wish to see in the world. After my sex change I'll have easier competition in girl only tournaments, it's a pretty good PR move for me to get a sex change. or you could also grow some balls and try to compete with other males but wait, are you a male? doesn't seem like it Ad hominem, but I'll respond anyways, which would be easier to win: an MLG tournament or a female-only tournament? I have almost no hope in competing with male players because they work hard and are good at the game. But I could totally be a fierce competitor in a female-only tournament! congrats bro you can beat some girls at starcraft now man the fuck up
Fayth you're kind of ignoring the point he's making... And honestly your last comment here seems to be the most sexist part of this conversation.
You made it sound like beating girls isn't a big deal and manliness should be the goal. If they are all on teams and CatChief isn't, doesn't that make it impressive if he wins an all girl tourney? I'd think so. If the gender doesn't matter then the fact that he beat a bunch of girls to win a tourney means he beat a bunch of people to win a tourney, which is pretty impressive.
And why should he "man the fuck up"? That's so sexist lol. I'm assuming that means be more masculine, which would mean less feminine, which would mean your goal is manliness over womanliness, which is sexism. C'mon man.
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oh my she has a PhD in mathematics ._.
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Based on the lack of anything impressive coming from the recent interest in picking up female players, and the fact that she is currently working on her PhD, I don't see a lot happening with this acquisition.
If these additions are being made for additional representation in the female only tournament segment, then I personally find that even more disappointing simply because I think it's counterproductive to the women who want to be taken seriously.
If the issue is with underrepresentation of females playing the game, then I feel that female only tournaments with bigger prize pools is going about it wrong way provided that the goal is to cultivate top tier talent. If women can truly compete and there is nothing limiting them from doing so then providing them with a way to dodge higher level competition is truly a detriment to them. If people want to simply concede that there are innate inhibitors for women in cerebral games as well as in physical sports, then sure, segregate away. I'm not sure if that's true, but that's the only fair justification I can see for such tournaments existing.
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On January 05 2012 13:38 TerlocSG wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2012 13:32 ReignFayth wrote:On January 05 2012 13:29 CatChief wrote:On January 05 2012 13:24 ReignFayth wrote:On January 05 2012 13:15 CatChief wrote:On January 05 2012 13:11 kellymilkies wrote:On January 05 2012 12:41 CatChief wrote:
I'm a masters player, can I be on a pro team? Oh wait I forgot, I'm male. Maybe I'll under-go a sex change. This is so fucking bullshit. You think all the top 200 players in the world, aka grandmasters are all in a pro team? There are also players in "pro-teams' that are masters as well. Oh excuse me. I forgot now everybody is going to flame me because they can't get it over with the fact that picking up female players is not a bad idea in terms of all the aspects of it and that there are going to be regular female tournaments as well. Sure, you can name it as all male tournament, then go question the Olympics -_-? But ya calm down please -_- I'm sick of seeing the same 2 things whenever there are girls who get picked up. Or when drama like Naniwa changing teams. They are just players looking out for themselves, being smart, and trying to do what they love. Maybe one day if everyone stop spending time hating they will spend more time trying to grow eSports and make it a better place. Be the change you wish to see in the world. After my sex change I'll have easier competition in girl only tournaments, it's a pretty good PR move for me to get a sex change. or you could also grow some balls and try to compete with other males but wait, are you a male? doesn't seem like it Ad hominem, but I'll respond anyways, which would be easier to win: an MLG tournament or a female-only tournament? I have almost no hope in competing with male players because they work hard and are good at the game. But I could totally be a fierce competitor in a female-only tournament! congrats bro you can beat some girls at starcraft now man the fuck up Fayth you're kind of ignoring the point he's making... And honestly your last comment here seems to be the most sexist part of this conversation. You made it sound like beating girls isn't a big deal and manliness should be the goal. If they are all on teams and CatChief isn't, doesn't that make it impressive if he wins an all girl tourney? I'd think so. If the gender doesn't matter then the fact that he beat a bunch of girls to win a tourney means he beat a bunch of people to win a tourney, which is pretty impressive. And why should he "man the fuck up"? That's so sexist lol. I'm assuming that means be more masculine, which would mean less feminine, which would mean your goal is manliness over womanliness, which is sexism. C'mon man.
of course I'm sexist, I'm not a woman
I do believe girls can't be as good as boys in certain areas and vice versa
and I think anyone who thinks otherwise is lying to himself
so yeah I agree with female-only tournaments and recruiting the best girls in pro teams since they are the best girls after all
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On January 05 2012 13:32 ReignFayth wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2012 13:29 CatChief wrote:On January 05 2012 13:24 ReignFayth wrote:On January 05 2012 13:15 CatChief wrote:On January 05 2012 13:11 kellymilkies wrote:On January 05 2012 12:41 CatChief wrote:
I'm a masters player, can I be on a pro team? Oh wait I forgot, I'm male. Maybe I'll under-go a sex change. This is so fucking bullshit. You think all the top 200 players in the world, aka grandmasters are all in a pro team? There are also players in "pro-teams' that are masters as well. Oh excuse me. I forgot now everybody is going to flame me because they can't get it over with the fact that picking up female players is not a bad idea in terms of all the aspects of it and that there are going to be regular female tournaments as well. Sure, you can name it as all male tournament, then go question the Olympics -_-? But ya calm down please -_- I'm sick of seeing the same 2 things whenever there are girls who get picked up. Or when drama like Naniwa changing teams. They are just players looking out for themselves, being smart, and trying to do what they love. Maybe one day if everyone stop spending time hating they will spend more time trying to grow eSports and make it a better place. Be the change you wish to see in the world. After my sex change I'll have easier competition in girl only tournaments, it's a pretty good PR move for me to get a sex change. or you could also grow some balls and try to compete with other males but wait, are you a male? doesn't seem like it Ad hominem, but I'll respond anyways, which would be easier to win: an MLG tournament or a female-only tournament? I have almost no hope in competing with male players because they work hard and are good at the game. But I could totally be a fierce competitor in a female-only tournament! congrats bro you can beat some girls at starcraft now man the fuck up
dunno why but this made me laugh pretty hard <.<
Man I dont really have anything useful to say I just wanted to comment on me laughing... hmmmm think, dont wanna get banned again v.v
umm yeah, this kinda reminds me of some conversations I have with co workers, where chicks get easy work and the men get the tough stuff, pesonally I've seen chicks who can easily out do men in alot of things physical or mental
and all those years of women fighting for equal rights with men and was treated like crap and humiliated and for what
so someone can humbly accept the title of (stars and smiley faces) Female (stars and smiley faces) pro gamer
cause obviously playing video games with high levels of estrogen is a handicap
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honestly im always laughing at everyone that just jumps on a team who signs a girl and calls it sexist or w/e but considering the title and the picture to make her look naked I'd have to say they could have organized this better (unless they wanted the obvious controversy that would have happened to get their name as a team out there even more so, then they organized it fine)
eSahara keeps adding people but no one that interests me at the moment, regardless best of luck in competing with everyone ^O^
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Big congrats to her! She seems quite skilled and talented. Probably could have chosen a better picture, but no biggie. GL on the team!
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On January 05 2012 13:46 ReignFayth wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2012 13:38 TerlocSG wrote:On January 05 2012 13:32 ReignFayth wrote:On January 05 2012 13:29 CatChief wrote:On January 05 2012 13:24 ReignFayth wrote:On January 05 2012 13:15 CatChief wrote:On January 05 2012 13:11 kellymilkies wrote:On January 05 2012 12:41 CatChief wrote:
I'm a masters player, can I be on a pro team? Oh wait I forgot, I'm male. Maybe I'll under-go a sex change. This is so fucking bullshit. You think all the top 200 players in the world, aka grandmasters are all in a pro team? There are also players in "pro-teams' that are masters as well. Oh excuse me. I forgot now everybody is going to flame me because they can't get it over with the fact that picking up female players is not a bad idea in terms of all the aspects of it and that there are going to be regular female tournaments as well. Sure, you can name it as all male tournament, then go question the Olympics -_-? But ya calm down please -_- I'm sick of seeing the same 2 things whenever there are girls who get picked up. Or when drama like Naniwa changing teams. They are just players looking out for themselves, being smart, and trying to do what they love. Maybe one day if everyone stop spending time hating they will spend more time trying to grow eSports and make it a better place. Be the change you wish to see in the world. After my sex change I'll have easier competition in girl only tournaments, it's a pretty good PR move for me to get a sex change. or you could also grow some balls and try to compete with other males but wait, are you a male? doesn't seem like it Ad hominem, but I'll respond anyways, which would be easier to win: an MLG tournament or a female-only tournament? I have almost no hope in competing with male players because they work hard and are good at the game. But I could totally be a fierce competitor in a female-only tournament! congrats bro you can beat some girls at starcraft now man the fuck up Fayth you're kind of ignoring the point he's making... And honestly your last comment here seems to be the most sexist part of this conversation. You made it sound like beating girls isn't a big deal and manliness should be the goal. If they are all on teams and CatChief isn't, doesn't that make it impressive if he wins an all girl tourney? I'd think so. If the gender doesn't matter then the fact that he beat a bunch of girls to win a tourney means he beat a bunch of people to win a tourney, which is pretty impressive. And why should he "man the fuck up"? That's so sexist lol. I'm assuming that means be more masculine, which would mean less feminine, which would mean your goal is manliness over womanliness, which is sexism. C'mon man. of course I'm sexist, I'm not a woman I do believe girls can't be as good as boys in certain areas and vice versa and I think anyone who thinks otherwise is lying to himself so yeah I agree with female-only tournaments and recruiting the best girls in pro teams since they are the best girls after all
See, this works with what I said earlier. If, like Josue you want to just go with the statement that, "Girls can't be as good as boys" then all this becomes totally fine.
The issue I see is with people who think that acquisitions like this, and female only tournaments are a way of giving women a chance to complete with men in Starcraft. It seems counterproductive to give them hand-outs and segregated tournaments if your goal is to integrate them into the scene and have them compete at a high level. If you just think they're naturally worse, then it's a different story.
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Good on her for being picked up by a team, and good on the team for considering factors outside just the skill in the game when drafting a new player - I take this as a positive trend for a commercially viable future for progaming. She'll be a progamer first and always, so please show some respect and treat her as such.
Though I question the 'pro' status since she's doing a PhD as some of you have already pointed out
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PhD in math? How is she going to find time to play? I know math is pretty easy though. I slept through one of my classes and glanced at the study sheet and got 100% hahaha. Still though this is PhD, you have to like... do presentations and papers. No scantrons there. Nope.
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On January 05 2012 14:10 Ownos wrote:
PhD in math? How is she going to find time to play? I know math is pretty easy though. I slept through one of my classes and glanced at the study sheet and got 100% hahaha. Still though this is PhD, you have to like... do presentations and papers. No scantrons there. Nope.
you're the best
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This is a clear publicity stunt, and not the correct one to get eyes on their team at the moment.. They should have just left it at their recent pickups and Korean house partnership...
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On January 05 2012 13:29 CatChief wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2012 13:24 ReignFayth wrote:On January 05 2012 13:15 CatChief wrote:On January 05 2012 13:11 kellymilkies wrote:On January 05 2012 12:41 CatChief wrote:
I'm a masters player, can I be on a pro team? Oh wait I forgot, I'm male. Maybe I'll under-go a sex change. This is so fucking bullshit. You think all the top 200 players in the world, aka grandmasters are all in a pro team? There are also players in "pro-teams' that are masters as well. Oh excuse me. I forgot now everybody is going to flame me because they can't get it over with the fact that picking up female players is not a bad idea in terms of all the aspects of it and that there are going to be regular female tournaments as well. Sure, you can name it as all male tournament, then go question the Olympics -_-? But ya calm down please -_- I'm sick of seeing the same 2 things whenever there are girls who get picked up. Or when drama like Naniwa changing teams. They are just players looking out for themselves, being smart, and trying to do what they love. Maybe one day if everyone stop spending time hating they will spend more time trying to grow eSports and make it a better place. Be the change you wish to see in the world. After my sex change I'll have easier competition in girl only tournaments, it's a pretty good PR move for me to get a sex change. or you could also grow some balls and try to compete with other males but wait, are you a male? doesn't seem like it Ad hominem, but I'll respond anyways, which would be easier to win: an MLG tournament or a female-only tournament? I have almost no hope in competing with male players because they work hard and are good at the game. But I could totally be a fierce competitor in a female-only tournament!
So you don't work hard and your not pro but you want to have a chance to win tournaments?
I don't think men and women are very different when it comes to gaming. If the same amount of females worked hard to become pro in sc2 then there would be equal amount of female & male progamers.
And because I believe in that I don't think its fair to have female tournaments only.
Work hard go pro. There is no easy way up.
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On January 05 2012 14:14 Nick.TNA wrote:
This is a clear publicity stunt, and not the correct one to get eyes on their team at the moment.. They should have just left it at their recent pickups and Korean house partnership...
This is older news than them.
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Big publicity stunt, good for her but sigh at teams doing this.
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On January 05 2012 14:19 Jusba wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2012 14:14 Nick.TNA wrote:
This is a clear publicity stunt, and not the correct one to get eyes on their team at the moment.. They should have just left it at their recent pickups and Korean house partnership... This is older news than them.
So it is. Regardless, its still a poor publicity stunt.
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On January 05 2012 14:18 Jusba wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2012 13:29 CatChief wrote:On January 05 2012 13:24 ReignFayth wrote:On January 05 2012 13:15 CatChief wrote:On January 05 2012 13:11 kellymilkies wrote:On January 05 2012 12:41 CatChief wrote:
I'm a masters player, can I be on a pro team? Oh wait I forgot, I'm male. Maybe I'll under-go a sex change. This is so fucking bullshit. You think all the top 200 players in the world, aka grandmasters are all in a pro team? There are also players in "pro-teams' that are masters as well. Oh excuse me. I forgot now everybody is going to flame me because they can't get it over with the fact that picking up female players is not a bad idea in terms of all the aspects of it and that there are going to be regular female tournaments as well. Sure, you can name it as all male tournament, then go question the Olympics -_-? But ya calm down please -_- I'm sick of seeing the same 2 things whenever there are girls who get picked up. Or when drama like Naniwa changing teams. They are just players looking out for themselves, being smart, and trying to do what they love. Maybe one day if everyone stop spending time hating they will spend more time trying to grow eSports and make it a better place. Be the change you wish to see in the world. After my sex change I'll have easier competition in girl only tournaments, it's a pretty good PR move for me to get a sex change. or you could also grow some balls and try to compete with other males but wait, are you a male? doesn't seem like it Ad hominem, but I'll respond anyways, which would be easier to win: an MLG tournament or a female-only tournament? I have almost no hope in competing with male players because they work hard and are good at the game. But I could totally be a fierce competitor in a female-only tournament! So you don't work hard and your not pro but you want to have a chance to win tournaments? I don't think men and women are very different when it comes to gaming. If the same amount of females worked hard to become pro in sc2 then there would be equal amount of female & male progamers. And because I believe in that I don't think its fair to have female tournaments only. Work hard go pro. There is no easy way up.
Females don't have to work as hard to go pro.
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On January 05 2012 14:18 Jusba wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2012 13:29 CatChief wrote:On January 05 2012 13:24 ReignFayth wrote:On January 05 2012 13:15 CatChief wrote:On January 05 2012 13:11 kellymilkies wrote:On January 05 2012 12:41 CatChief wrote:
I'm a masters player, can I be on a pro team? Oh wait I forgot, I'm male. Maybe I'll under-go a sex change. This is so fucking bullshit. You think all the top 200 players in the world, aka grandmasters are all in a pro team? There are also players in "pro-teams' that are masters as well. Oh excuse me. I forgot now everybody is going to flame me because they can't get it over with the fact that picking up female players is not a bad idea in terms of all the aspects of it and that there are going to be regular female tournaments as well. Sure, you can name it as all male tournament, then go question the Olympics -_-? But ya calm down please -_- I'm sick of seeing the same 2 things whenever there are girls who get picked up. Or when drama like Naniwa changing teams. They are just players looking out for themselves, being smart, and trying to do what they love. Maybe one day if everyone stop spending time hating they will spend more time trying to grow eSports and make it a better place. Be the change you wish to see in the world. After my sex change I'll have easier competition in girl only tournaments, it's a pretty good PR move for me to get a sex change. or you could also grow some balls and try to compete with other males but wait, are you a male? doesn't seem like it Ad hominem, but I'll respond anyways, which would be easier to win: an MLG tournament or a female-only tournament? I have almost no hope in competing with male players because they work hard and are good at the game. But I could totally be a fierce competitor in a female-only tournament! So you don't work hard and your not pro but you want to have a chance to win tournaments? I don't think men and women are very different when it comes to gaming. If the same amount of females worked hard to become pro in sc2 then there would be equal amount of female & male progamers. And because I believe in that I don't think its fair to have female tournaments only. Work hard go pro. There is no easy way up.
But this makes no sense. I don't see how there was anything in there that was a good argument for female only tournaments. If you think both parties can do well with hard work, why should the poster you were responding to be restricted from winning an easier tournament? Unless you believe that women's hard work is inherently much less effective than men's hard work.
"Work hard, go pro. There's no easy way up." Eh? Then shouldn't that be the same for both genders, isn't offering a restrictive tournament with less skilled competition effectively an "easy way up" in the sense that it rewards being the best among a mediocre crowd.
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On December 14 2011 01:45 Slyce wrote:
I think that what is essential positive discrimination or how some people word it 'token girls' is damaging.
I think this in fact promotes and reinforces the already rather strong sexism in the scene. Some ones gender should not even be considered... I would not expect to recieve an email at work saying 'Publicity department has a new member of staff (she is a girl)' because that would be ridiculous.
I just think if she is a really talented player who does well in tournaments etc her gender is neither important or relevant. However if she is bad (as some people here are suggesting) then putting her on the team is a publicity stunt and is damaging.
Yes sir, and the vibe I'm getting in the ladder. Being masters isn't that hard, but it is harder as zerg.... to an extent...I mean imo if you want to be a reputable team ur players should be atleast GM. I mean naama skill vs NA/EU master skill? no comparison.
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first few words words in thread include "we were looking for a female"
all i can say is thank you for being honest.
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On January 05 2012 15:13 TyrantPotato wrote:
first few words words in thread include "we were looking for a female"
all i can say is thank you for being honest.
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well, plenty of players in professional teams are in master league so I don't see the problem some people seem to have.
I'm looking forward to her performance under the eSahara flag! (edit: typo)
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Really want to see female-only tourneys now that Quantic, oGs, Startale, and such are all adding girl players
also eSahara adding a lot of players recently, will be interesting to see how it develops
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On January 05 2012 15:56 Pocky52 wrote:
Really want to see female-only tourneys now that Quantic, oGs, Startale, and such are all adding girl players
also eSahara adding a lot of players recently, will be interesting to see how it develops
not a big fan of female-only tournaments, but I wouldn't mind team leagues being more restrictive to force teams to be well-rounded. Like at least one player from each race (problem, slayers?) and at leastone player from each gender.
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On January 05 2012 16:09 JustPassingBy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2012 15:56 Pocky52 wrote:
Really want to see female-only tourneys now that Quantic, oGs, Startale, and such are all adding girl players
also eSahara adding a lot of players recently, will be interesting to see how it develops not a big fan of female-only tournaments, but I wouldn't mind team leagues being more restrictive to force teams to be well-rounded. Like at least one player from each race (problem, slayers?) and at leastone player from each gender.
I don't really agree with that either, it seems unfair to force teams to look for even representation in a competitive affair. It would be ludicrous to be watching a team league and find a team unable to field one of their better players because they've exhausted that race, this would be even more ridiculous for gender, forcing teams to add a female to their roster just to compete. I hope no team league ever invokes such a rule, and I doubt they will because it sounds pretty silly.
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On January 05 2012 16:09 JustPassingBy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2012 15:56 Pocky52 wrote:
Really want to see female-only tourneys now that Quantic, oGs, Startale, and such are all adding girl players
also eSahara adding a lot of players recently, will be interesting to see how it develops not a big fan of female-only tournaments, but I wouldn't mind team leagues being more restrictive to force teams to be well-rounded. Like at least one player from each race (problem, slayers?) and at leastone player from each gender.
agreed, unless there is a valid reason that female players are disadvantaged in gaming due to their gender we shouldn't have female only tournaments.
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On January 05 2012 14:57 Mordiford wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2012 14:18 Jusba wrote:On January 05 2012 13:29 CatChief wrote:On January 05 2012 13:24 ReignFayth wrote:On January 05 2012 13:15 CatChief wrote:On January 05 2012 13:11 kellymilkies wrote:On January 05 2012 12:41 CatChief wrote:
I'm a masters player, can I be on a pro team? Oh wait I forgot, I'm male. Maybe I'll under-go a sex change. This is so fucking bullshit. You think all the top 200 players in the world, aka grandmasters are all in a pro team? There are also players in "pro-teams' that are masters as well. Oh excuse me. I forgot now everybody is going to flame me because they can't get it over with the fact that picking up female players is not a bad idea in terms of all the aspects of it and that there are going to be regular female tournaments as well. Sure, you can name it as all male tournament, then go question the Olympics -_-? But ya calm down please -_- I'm sick of seeing the same 2 things whenever there are girls who get picked up. Or when drama like Naniwa changing teams. They are just players looking out for themselves, being smart, and trying to do what they love. Maybe one day if everyone stop spending time hating they will spend more time trying to grow eSports and make it a better place. Be the change you wish to see in the world. After my sex change I'll have easier competition in girl only tournaments, it's a pretty good PR move for me to get a sex change. or you could also grow some balls and try to compete with other males but wait, are you a male? doesn't seem like it Ad hominem, but I'll respond anyways, which would be easier to win: an MLG tournament or a female-only tournament? I have almost no hope in competing with male players because they work hard and are good at the game. But I could totally be a fierce competitor in a female-only tournament! So you don't work hard and your not pro but you want to have a chance to win tournaments? I don't think men and women are very different when it comes to gaming. If the same amount of females worked hard to become pro in sc2 then there would be equal amount of female & male progamers. And because I believe in that I don't think its fair to have female tournaments only. Work hard go pro. There is no easy way up. But this makes no sense. I don't see how there was anything in there that was a good argument for female only tournaments. If you think both parties can do well with hard work, why should the poster you were responding to be restricted from winning an easier tournament? Unless you believe that women's hard work is inherently much less effective than men's hard work. "Work hard, go pro. There's no easy way up." Eh? Then shouldn't that be the same for both genders, isn't offering a restrictive tournament with less skilled competition effectively an "easy way up" in the sense that it rewards being the best among a mediocre crowd.
I'm not really following you here. I am saying that women can be as good as men if they train JUST as much and I was against female only tournaments for that reason.
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On January 05 2012 15:50 JustPassingBy wrote:
well, plenty of players in professional teams are in master league so I don't see the problem some people seem to have.
I'm looking forward to her performance under the eSahara flag! (edit: typo)
That is true, but most/all of those players are in top 8 and are basically around same MMR as the GM pros. As I seem to be around the same skill level as her, I can tell you that there is a mile off from being top masters(in most divisions) and a mid/low masters.
I really wish she was more skilled. Would love the idea for a truly pro female gamer(fx. someone I've only watched online come to MLG and I go like "wait he's a chick!?"), but for a computer game it has always felt pretty stupid to be restricting by gender since given as much practice I see no reason for why they should be any worse/better than guys. As an example, like they say, she's studying Ph.D Mathematics, how much time is she practicing while doing that?
Still I wish her the best of luck, hopefully she's like on her last semester and can afterwards throw in a ton of practice and become good
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On January 05 2012 16:30 nodnod wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2012 16:09 JustPassingBy wrote:On January 05 2012 15:56 Pocky52 wrote:
Really want to see female-only tourneys now that Quantic, oGs, Startale, and such are all adding girl players
also eSahara adding a lot of players recently, will be interesting to see how it develops not a big fan of female-only tournaments, but I wouldn't mind team leagues being more restrictive to force teams to be well-rounded. Like at least one player from each race (problem, slayers?) and at leastone player from each gender. agreed, unless there is a valid reason that female players are disadvantaged in gaming due to their gender we shouldn't have female only tournaments.
I don't think that team leagues should be held to any requirements on who they can use, save for maybe using one player throughout an entire tournament
I agree that they have the same potential as males, but I think the fact that it's a smaller scene warrants their own tournaments. I would look at this as being similar to like high school or college tournaments, since age isn't really a limiting factor. I guess many pros are around like college age or even like Pokebunny who is in high school and such, but the sentiment that they have separate tournaments is more what I mean. Also without at least starting with female only events, less females are encouraged to join. Another analogy, being like racing and Danica Patrick who eventually moved on to compete with the "boys." Either way, more tournaments is good in my opinion ^^
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I find it a little ridiculous how pro eSports teams are recruiting a large amount of female players these days, regardless of their skill. If a male player is mid-masters, the chances of them being picked up by a pro team is approximately zero.
A female player, though! Hold the god damn phone! They must be bloody amazing, despite being at the same skill level! They obviously belong on a pro team!
I know that this could be portrayed as trolling, but that's not what I'm getting at. There are a LOT of player acquisitions right now by a lot of teams that are just silly, considering the skill level of the players involved (compared to the skill level of other players on the team).
To be blunt, it seems like having female genitalia increases your marketability by about 100%.
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How can people flame and be idiots when a team picks up a girl!? This is good news both for the team and ESPORTS. I dont get why dont all of you are happy that more girls are starting to play rts's seriously. In a few years i'm guessing the bar will be set higher, but sc2 is a new game. And this is a great start!
Gratz to madde and the team!
Spoiler!
+ Show Spoiler +
Also! isnt it a good thing that it isnt only 8 guys in the same house playing. Guessing there will be less fapping now!
jkjk
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On January 05 2012 18:13 NeWeNiyaLord wrote:
How can people flame and be idiots when a team picks up a girl!? This is good news both for the team and ESPORTS. I dont get why dont all of you are happy that more girls are starting to play rts's seriously. In a few years i'm guessing the bar will be set higher, but sc2 is a new game. And this is a great start!
Gratz to madde and the team!
I think the point that people are trying to make is that: why does the gender of the player matter? Female players are being given a lot of attention because there are less of them. It doesn't make sense.
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Well let's see if she can prove if she's got serious talent or not. I'm holding out any judgements until I see her play. Average master is nothing too amazing, but dedication and training make a big, BIG difference.
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On January 05 2012 16:39 Jusba wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2012 14:57 Mordiford wrote:On January 05 2012 14:18 Jusba wrote:On January 05 2012 13:29 CatChief wrote:On January 05 2012 13:24 ReignFayth wrote:On January 05 2012 13:15 CatChief wrote:On January 05 2012 13:11 kellymilkies wrote:On January 05 2012 12:41 CatChief wrote:
I'm a masters player, can I be on a pro team? Oh wait I forgot, I'm male. Maybe I'll under-go a sex change. This is so fucking bullshit. You think all the top 200 players in the world, aka grandmasters are all in a pro team? There are also players in "pro-teams' that are masters as well. Oh excuse me. I forgot now everybody is going to flame me because they can't get it over with the fact that picking up female players is not a bad idea in terms of all the aspects of it and that there are going to be regular female tournaments as well. Sure, you can name it as all male tournament, then go question the Olympics -_-? But ya calm down please -_- I'm sick of seeing the same 2 things whenever there are girls who get picked up. Or when drama like Naniwa changing teams. They are just players looking out for themselves, being smart, and trying to do what they love. Maybe one day if everyone stop spending time hating they will spend more time trying to grow eSports and make it a better place. Be the change you wish to see in the world. After my sex change I'll have easier competition in girl only tournaments, it's a pretty good PR move for me to get a sex change. or you could also grow some balls and try to compete with other males but wait, are you a male? doesn't seem like it Ad hominem, but I'll respond anyways, which would be easier to win: an MLG tournament or a female-only tournament? I have almost no hope in competing with male players because they work hard and are good at the game. But I could totally be a fierce competitor in a female-only tournament! So you don't work hard and your not pro but you want to have a chance to win tournaments? I don't think men and women are very different when it comes to gaming. If the same amount of females worked hard to become pro in sc2 then there would be equal amount of female & male progamers. And because I believe in that I don't think its fair to have female tournaments only. Work hard go pro. There is no easy way up. But this makes no sense. I don't see how there was anything in there that was a good argument for female only tournaments. If you think both parties can do well with hard work, why should the poster you were responding to be restricted from winning an easier tournament? Unless you believe that women's hard work is inherently much less effective than men's hard work. "Work hard, go pro. There's no easy way up." Eh? Then shouldn't that be the same for both genders, isn't offering a restrictive tournament with less skilled competition effectively an "easy way up" in the sense that it rewards being the best among a mediocre crowd. I'm not really following you here. I am saying that women can be as good as men if they train JUST as much and I was against female only tournaments for that reason.
I misread your post so thoroughly and was hasty in my response. I thought your post didn't make any sense because you seemed to be making the opposite argument, but I simply misread your concluding sentences, your post makes more sense now that I understand the stance that you were actually arguing.
My apologies.
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On January 05 2012 18:14 MahE wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2012 18:13 NeWeNiyaLord wrote:
How can people flame and be idiots when a team picks up a girl!? This is good news both for the team and ESPORTS. I dont get why dont all of you are happy that more girls are starting to play rts's seriously. In a few years i'm guessing the bar will be set higher, but sc2 is a new game. And this is a great start!
Gratz to madde and the team! I think the point that people are trying to make is that: why does the gender of the player matter? Female players are being given a lot of attention because there are less of them. It doesn't make sense.
Ofcourse the gender matter, its a fact that girl players are more rare. therefore we should all appreaciate that a girl has commited to playing sc2. and for ESPORTS to grow its a good thing to attract more girls. remember that there is alot more girls then boys. The more people, the harder it gets to get to the top. And when this sinks in to our heads. i'm sure that girls will practice harder for a chance at a team. but now, with almost no girls playing, the bar is low. it will get higher, but has to start somewhere.
Also now she gets very good practice partners, so she will improve. it all comes down to how much she dedicates. but if she's read this thread i'm guessing she isnt feeling at top. so much hate
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On January 05 2012 18:20 NeWeNiyaLord wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2012 18:14 MahE wrote:On January 05 2012 18:13 NeWeNiyaLord wrote:
How can people flame and be idiots when a team picks up a girl!? This is good news both for the team and ESPORTS. I dont get why dont all of you are happy that more girls are starting to play rts's seriously. In a few years i'm guessing the bar will be set higher, but sc2 is a new game. And this is a great start!
Gratz to madde and the team! I think the point that people are trying to make is that: why does the gender of the player matter? Female players are being given a lot of attention because there are less of them. It doesn't make sense. Ofcourse the gender matter, its a fact that girl players are more rare. therefore we should all appreaciate that a girl has commited to playing sc2. and for ESPORTS to grow its a good thing to attract more girls. remember that there is alot more girls then boys. The more people, the harder it gets to get to the top. And when this sinks in to our heads. i'm sure that girls will practice harder for a chance at a team. but now, with almost no girls playing, the bar is low. it will get higher, but has to start somewhere. Also now she gets very good practice partners, so she will improve. it all comes down to how much she dedicates. but if she's read this thread i'm guessing she isnt feeling at top. so much hate
this or at least hopefully this happens
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Canada11348 Posts
On January 05 2012 13:54 Mordiford wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2012 13:46 ReignFayth wrote:On January 05 2012 13:38 TerlocSG wrote:On January 05 2012 13:32 ReignFayth wrote:On January 05 2012 13:29 CatChief wrote:On January 05 2012 13:24 ReignFayth wrote:On January 05 2012 13:15 CatChief wrote:On January 05 2012 13:11 kellymilkies wrote:On January 05 2012 12:41 CatChief wrote:
I'm a masters player, can I be on a pro team? Oh wait I forgot, I'm male. Maybe I'll under-go a sex change. This is so fucking bullshit. You think all the top 200 players in the world, aka grandmasters are all in a pro team? There are also players in "pro-teams' that are masters as well. Oh excuse me. I forgot now everybody is going to flame me because they can't get it over with the fact that picking up female players is not a bad idea in terms of all the aspects of it and that there are going to be regular female tournaments as well. Sure, you can name it as all male tournament, then go question the Olympics -_-? But ya calm down please -_- I'm sick of seeing the same 2 things whenever there are girls who get picked up. Or when drama like Naniwa changing teams. They are just players looking out for themselves, being smart, and trying to do what they love. Maybe one day if everyone stop spending time hating they will spend more time trying to grow eSports and make it a better place. Be the change you wish to see in the world. After my sex change I'll have easier competition in girl only tournaments, it's a pretty good PR move for me to get a sex change. or you could also grow some balls and try to compete with other males but wait, are you a male? doesn't seem like it Ad hominem, but I'll respond anyways, which would be easier to win: an MLG tournament or a female-only tournament? I have almost no hope in competing with male players because they work hard and are good at the game. But I could totally be a fierce competitor in a female-only tournament! congrats bro you can beat some girls at starcraft now man the fuck up Fayth you're kind of ignoring the point he's making... And honestly your last comment here seems to be the most sexist part of this conversation. You made it sound like beating girls isn't a big deal and manliness should be the goal. If they are all on teams and CatChief isn't, doesn't that make it impressive if he wins an all girl tourney? I'd think so. If the gender doesn't matter then the fact that he beat a bunch of girls to win a tourney means he beat a bunch of people to win a tourney, which is pretty impressive. And why should he "man the fuck up"? That's so sexist lol. I'm assuming that means be more masculine, which would mean less feminine, which would mean your goal is manliness over womanliness, which is sexism. C'mon man. of course I'm sexist, I'm not a woman I do believe girls can't be as good as boys in certain areas and vice versa and I think anyone who thinks otherwise is lying to himself so yeah I agree with female-only tournaments and recruiting the best girls in pro teams since they are the best girls after all See, this works with what I said earlier. If, like Josue you want to just go with the statement that, "Girls can't be as good as boys" then all this becomes totally fine. The issue I see is with people who think that acquisitions like this, and female only tournaments are a way of giving women a chance to complete with men in Starcraft. It seems counterproductive to give them hand-outs and segregated tournaments if your goal is to integrate them into the scene and have them compete at a high level. If you just think they're naturally worse, then it's a different story.
You seem to be on a bit of caped crusade on this topic as I see you in almost every single one of these debates. What exactly is this issue? Is it just fairness? Girl gamers are being given more chances than guys? Or is it really an issue of being counterproductive that you are concerned that girl gamers' progress will be hindered by 'hand-outs and segregated tournaments.'
If the first, then I suppose it could be considered 'unfair,' but I'm not convinced a tournament for girls created by girls is 'unfair.' Who are we to say what they can or cannot do?
And if the second, should it not be up to the girl gamers to decide whether this 'injustice' is counterproductive for them. I see a great amount of concern on behalf of girls that this will be bad for gamer girls, that it will cap their skill, that drafting a girl instead of guy is terrible for the competitiveness of girl gamers. But I only hear it from more guys. Never once (that I can recall) has a girl gamer gone on a rant on how drafting this or that girl is bad for girls in general. Granted usernames can hide gender, but of the names I know they seem pretty supportive of the opportunities given. So is it really on their behalf that so much concern is given on how this will affect girls' competitive future?
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On January 05 2012 18:47 Falling wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2012 13:54 Mordiford wrote:On January 05 2012 13:46 ReignFayth wrote:On January 05 2012 13:38 TerlocSG wrote:On January 05 2012 13:32 ReignFayth wrote:On January 05 2012 13:29 CatChief wrote:On January 05 2012 13:24 ReignFayth wrote:On January 05 2012 13:15 CatChief wrote:On January 05 2012 13:11 kellymilkies wrote:On January 05 2012 12:41 CatChief wrote:
I'm a masters player, can I be on a pro team? Oh wait I forgot, I'm male. Maybe I'll under-go a sex change. This is so fucking bullshit. You think all the top 200 players in the world, aka grandmasters are all in a pro team? There are also players in "pro-teams' that are masters as well. Oh excuse me. I forgot now everybody is going to flame me because they can't get it over with the fact that picking up female players is not a bad idea in terms of all the aspects of it and that there are going to be regular female tournaments as well. Sure, you can name it as all male tournament, then go question the Olympics -_-? But ya calm down please -_- I'm sick of seeing the same 2 things whenever there are girls who get picked up. Or when drama like Naniwa changing teams. They are just players looking out for themselves, being smart, and trying to do what they love. Maybe one day if everyone stop spending time hating they will spend more time trying to grow eSports and make it a better place. Be the change you wish to see in the world. After my sex change I'll have easier competition in girl only tournaments, it's a pretty good PR move for me to get a sex change. or you could also grow some balls and try to compete with other males but wait, are you a male? doesn't seem like it Ad hominem, but I'll respond anyways, which would be easier to win: an MLG tournament or a female-only tournament? I have almost no hope in competing with male players because they work hard and are good at the game. But I could totally be a fierce competitor in a female-only tournament! congrats bro you can beat some girls at starcraft now man the fuck up Fayth you're kind of ignoring the point he's making... And honestly your last comment here seems to be the most sexist part of this conversation. You made it sound like beating girls isn't a big deal and manliness should be the goal. If they are all on teams and CatChief isn't, doesn't that make it impressive if he wins an all girl tourney? I'd think so. If the gender doesn't matter then the fact that he beat a bunch of girls to win a tourney means he beat a bunch of people to win a tourney, which is pretty impressive. And why should he "man the fuck up"? That's so sexist lol. I'm assuming that means be more masculine, which would mean less feminine, which would mean your goal is manliness over womanliness, which is sexism. C'mon man. of course I'm sexist, I'm not a woman I do believe girls can't be as good as boys in certain areas and vice versa and I think anyone who thinks otherwise is lying to himself so yeah I agree with female-only tournaments and recruiting the best girls in pro teams since they are the best girls after all See, this works with what I said earlier. If, like Josue you want to just go with the statement that, "Girls can't be as good as boys" then all this becomes totally fine. The issue I see is with people who think that acquisitions like this, and female only tournaments are a way of giving women a chance to complete with men in Starcraft. It seems counterproductive to give them hand-outs and segregated tournaments if your goal is to integrate them into the scene and have them compete at a high level. If you just think they're naturally worse, then it's a different story. You seem to be on a bit of caped crusade on this topic as I see you in almost every single one of these debates. What exactly is this issue? Is it just fairness? Girl gamers are being given more chances than guys? Or is it really an issue of being counterproductive that you are concerned that girl gamers' progress will be hindered by 'hand-outs and segregated tournaments.' If the first, then I suppose it could be considered 'unfair,' but I'm not convinced a tournament for girls created by girls is 'unfair.' Who are we to say what they can or cannot do? And if the second, should it not be up to the girl gamers to decide whether this 'injustice' is counterproductive for them. I see a great amount of concern on behalf of girls that this will be bad for gamer girls, that it will cap their skill, that drafting a girl instead of guy is terrible for the competitiveness of girl gamers. But I only hear it from more guys. Never once (that I can recall) has a girl gamer gone on a rant on how drafting this or that girl is bad for girls in general. Granted usernames can hide gender, but of the names I know they seem pretty supportive of the opportunities given. So is it really on their behalf that so much concern is given on how this will affect girls' competitive future?
Not really a caped crusader. I just had a lengthy discussion when these issues were first being raised, with one of the people who ran some weekly women's cups. After that, I felt like I had reached an understanding of the issue as a whole and there was not much more to discuss. However, people have always come in with takes on the subject that do not make sense to me.
"If women are capable of competing with men, then having restrictive tournaments is unfair" is what you're responding to. Your response is simply that you're not convinced that it's unfair. I don't see what convincing is necessary here. It's no different from having a "Black people only" restriction, or a "Men only restriction". Even if you can not tell the organizer what they can and cannot do, it's still unfair. There's really no argument to be had here, it's prejudicial and discriminatory to exclude a group of capable people from competing.
Now, for smaller tournaments and community run cups I have no issue, people can try and establish whatever niche they want, or use small cups to look for fellow women, gays, ethnic groups in the scene if they want. As soon as this goes above a certain threshold, I feel it becomes problematic because quite simply, it's unnecessarily(assuming women and men are equally capable at playing video games) discriminatory. That is why it's unfair.
As to your second point, there are a fair few women who have made remarks about women in the scene, whether it be negative attention they receive, positive attention they receive or specifically the topic of female only tournaments. Regardless of where the criticism comes from, it is still valid. I honestly don't have a problem with women being given some preferential treatment in regards to recruitment, they're a minority, a good female player can really garner some attention. The issue is giving them the wrong kind of attention, you don't need to be a woman to comment on the way they're being presented. Regardless, in this thread I was addressing the idea of having women around to compete in female only tournaments, and the impact of that, not affirmative action for women being recruited to teams. I haven't really wrapped my head around the latter and don't really know what to think about that yet, but if they can eventually perform up to par with their peers, I don't see the harm in giving them a chance.
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add another good swedish player to the list i guess
Maddelisk FIGHTING!!
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Hilarious pic... appealing to a non-sc crowd seems to be the plan. hope she can do well.
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PhD student & Gamer? And representing fem-ESPORTS on top of all that? She's got her work cut out for her. Hope she can find time for all that and start making a splash in tournaments.
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Remember when teams used to pick up players based on skill alone? Can't wait for the next team to advertise they just got a girl who no one's ever heard of with no accomplishments and less talent than hundreds of other players who are better at this game. LGN cheerleaders should be coming any minute now.
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Man the people saying she's bad cos she's a girl are fools. PhD in maths? that shows she aint another poster girl/cheerleader type. Probably there are better teamless male gamers out there and probably she did get picked up for a bit of sex appeal - but still wait until you see some games before judging.
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On January 05 2012 10:27 Daniel C wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2012 08:00 Serimek wrote:
Congratulations and good luck to her. I do hope she'll be able to enhance is level thanks to her mates and thus become as good at SCII as cute (and cute she is indeed).
Slightly off topic as we don't know if she'll compete in traditional circuit or not, but I can't understand the point of female tournaments and leagues.
In traditional sports, there are both male and female category because of physiological differences (strength, weight, tall, etcetera). Fair enough. But being good at SC2 required intellectual and strategic capacities plus dexterity, things, as far as we know, absolutely independent of gender, except maybe due to sociological bias. So, what's the point of female tournaments and leagues ? It looks to me more sexist and indefensible to segregate women in women only league than accept the fact that there are actually few good female players, and that we must recognize them for their in-game talents if they deserve to. Ever heard of chess?
The fact that someone actually do something is not a proof that it is fair or good to do so.
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i can see why they picked her instead of some no live nerd
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This is why in most sports the female athletes wear short outfits, she's damn hot
All the best to her and eSahara
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The problem I see with this is that esahara openly admit that they only gave her the spot because she was a girl. They literally say that they went out looking for a female player, to hire just because they're a female player.
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On January 05 2012 20:18 Yonnua wrote:
The problem I see with this is that esahara openly admit that they only gave her the spot because she was a girl. They literally say that they went out looking for a female player, to hire just because they're a female player.
As the scene is now I have nothing against eSahara's choice of going out of their way to get a female gamer. Since at this moment the scene is split into two scenes the female and the male. The quality and quantity of the female scene is obviously much lower than the male which would make it rather smart to get a female gamer.
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On January 05 2012 20:18 Yonnua wrote:
The problem I see with this is that esahara openly admit that they only gave her the spot because she was a girl. They literally say that they went out looking for a female player, to hire just because they're a female player.
Happens in IRL too, many companies say they are actively looking for more persons of the other gender, not necessarily those of better skill.
IT is a good example, especially technical stuff. Everyone wants more females to even out the ratios, but I have yet to see a female who's equally good at it as the majority of males.
Same thing about say child care, where you'll mostly find females working.
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Still waiting for a team to announce "Adding male player XYZ"...
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A girl hot like that, and naked on her freakin pic, seems like it would be a distraction more than anything for a team.
Men arent made of rock, and gamers who spend alot of time on the computer tend to be even weaker to female charms. What if multiple guys get the crush for her in the team, can put some tension, jealousy, etc and affect practice.
Its none of my business or concern, but from personnal point of view, if that fine piece of woman was in my team, id be more worried about what she thinks about me than actually improving my game...
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Good luck getting into grandmaster! I love gaming girls.
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Cool!
But would have been nicer to have a pic where she looks like a gamer and not some nerd's dream elf...
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On January 05 2012 20:34 Snake.69 wrote:
A girl hot like that, and naked on her freakin pic, seems like it would be a distraction more than anything for a team.
Men arent made of rock, and gamers who spend alot of time on the computer tend to be even weaker to female charms. What if multiple guys get the crush for her in the team, can put some tension, jealousy, etc and affect practice.
Its none of my business or concern, but from personnal point of view, if that fine piece of woman was in my team, id be more worried about what she thinks about me than actually improving my game...
You honestly think she is ever going to practice with the team?
Try to picture it.
Actual professionals trying to teach someone who plays a few games a week Starcraft 2.
I doubt her teammates will just stop practicing/progressing to teach a random person the basics of the game.
Do you think that was even in her contract? That she is supposed to practice/get better? Do you think that the team has future plans of spending money on her flying to events after said practice? Come on guys, open yours eyes
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I thought someone said she was gonna stay in the house, guess not, my bad.
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Maddelisk such a genious ID lol ^^
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You know what? eSahara could have picked up a same level male player and nobody would be here talking about them.
But they pick up a girl, which are rare on eSports, and for an extra bonus, she is cute, so one of the bigger SC2 communities in the world make 18 pages of talk just about her in less than few hours.
Marketing guys, just marketing.
She will play as hard as any other fresh pick up in any other team in the world, and the team got an extra bonus of publicity.
Everyone wins.
GL in your new team MaddeLisk, the Swarm is always pleased to support their cerebrates... and their queens.
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Boy I wish I was a girl so I could get sponsored out of master league.
A few folks said if Esahara has picked a man from the same skill level no one would complain: uhh yes we would. But thats a moot point because it would NEVER happen.
Whatever I dont mean to be a hater, im geniunely happy for her. However I have this crazy idea that those to be sponsored should be the best in their field, and not just be decent with tits.
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On January 05 2012 22:40 Equity213 wrote:
Boy I wish I was a girl so I could get sponsored out of master league.
A few folks said if Esahara has picked a man from the same skill level no one would complain: uhh yes we would. But thats a moot point because it would NEVER happen.
Whatever I dont mean to be a hater, im geniunely happy for her. However I have this crazy idea that those to be sponsored should be the best in their field, and not just be decent with tits.
Even though a bit bluntly put, there is a valid point.
This sort of positive treatment because of gender is detrimental to the society as a whole and in this case to our SC2 community.
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United States5162 Posts
On January 05 2012 22:54 Skytalker wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2012 22:40 Equity213 wrote:
Boy I wish I was a girl so I could get sponsored out of master league.
A few folks said if Esahara has picked a man from the same skill level no one would complain: uhh yes we would. But thats a moot point because it would NEVER happen.
Whatever I dont mean to be a hater, im geniunely happy for her. However I have this crazy idea that those to be sponsored should be the best in their field, and not just be decent with tits. Even though a bit bluntly put, there is a valid point. This sort of positive treatment because of gender is detrimental to the society as a whole and in this case to our SC2 community.
Oh jeez, I suppose you think that Hooters only employs hot women is bad for society, too?
Good looking girls bring attention and money in any industry that men dominate as consumers. Get over it.
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On January 05 2012 22:56 Myles wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2012 22:54 Skytalker wrote:On January 05 2012 22:40 Equity213 wrote:
Boy I wish I was a girl so I could get sponsored out of master league.
A few folks said if Esahara has picked a man from the same skill level no one would complain: uhh yes we would. But thats a moot point because it would NEVER happen.
Whatever I dont mean to be a hater, im geniunely happy for her. However I have this crazy idea that those to be sponsored should be the best in their field, and not just be decent with tits. Even though a bit bluntly put, there is a valid point. This sort of positive treatment because of gender is detrimental to the society as a whole and in this case to our SC2 community. Good looking girls bring attention and money in any industry that men dominate as consumers. Get over it.
wait...so just because something is the way it is I should accept it? I can honestly say I think the world would look very different if everybody reasoned that way...
This is borderline OT btw and I'm going to leave it for now.
Good Luck Madde!
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United States5162 Posts
On January 05 2012 23:00 Skytalker wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2012 22:56 Myles wrote:On January 05 2012 22:54 Skytalker wrote:On January 05 2012 22:40 Equity213 wrote:
Boy I wish I was a girl so I could get sponsored out of master league.
A few folks said if Esahara has picked a man from the same skill level no one would complain: uhh yes we would. But thats a moot point because it would NEVER happen.
Whatever I dont mean to be a hater, im geniunely happy for her. However I have this crazy idea that those to be sponsored should be the best in their field, and not just be decent with tits. Even though a bit bluntly put, there is a valid point. This sort of positive treatment because of gender is detrimental to the society as a whole and in this case to our SC2 community. Good looking girls bring attention and money in any industry that men dominate as consumers. Get over it. wait...so just because something is the way it is I should accept it? I can honestly say I think the world would look very different if everybody reasoned that way... This is borderline OT btw and I'm going to leave it for now. Good Luck Madde!
You're fighting against the fact that men like attractive women. Good luck trying to change that. But yea, a bit OT, so this should end.
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Rofl when i saw the pic i thought it was a joke.
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On January 05 2012 18:18 Mordiford wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2012 16:39 Jusba wrote:On January 05 2012 14:57 Mordiford wrote:On January 05 2012 14:18 Jusba wrote:On January 05 2012 13:29 CatChief wrote:On January 05 2012 13:24 ReignFayth wrote:On January 05 2012 13:15 CatChief wrote:On January 05 2012 13:11 kellymilkies wrote:On January 05 2012 12:41 CatChief wrote:
I'm a masters player, can I be on a pro team? Oh wait I forgot, I'm male. Maybe I'll under-go a sex change. This is so fucking bullshit. You think all the top 200 players in the world, aka grandmasters are all in a pro team? There are also players in "pro-teams' that are masters as well. Oh excuse me. I forgot now everybody is going to flame me because they can't get it over with the fact that picking up female players is not a bad idea in terms of all the aspects of it and that there are going to be regular female tournaments as well. Sure, you can name it as all male tournament, then go question the Olympics -_-? But ya calm down please -_- I'm sick of seeing the same 2 things whenever there are girls who get picked up. Or when drama like Naniwa changing teams. They are just players looking out for themselves, being smart, and trying to do what they love. Maybe one day if everyone stop spending time hating they will spend more time trying to grow eSports and make it a better place. Be the change you wish to see in the world. After my sex change I'll have easier competition in girl only tournaments, it's a pretty good PR move for me to get a sex change. or you could also grow some balls and try to compete with other males but wait, are you a male? doesn't seem like it Ad hominem, but I'll respond anyways, which would be easier to win: an MLG tournament or a female-only tournament? I have almost no hope in competing with male players because they work hard and are good at the game. But I could totally be a fierce competitor in a female-only tournament! So you don't work hard and your not pro but you want to have a chance to win tournaments? I don't think men and women are very different when it comes to gaming. If the same amount of females worked hard to become pro in sc2 then there would be equal amount of female & male progamers. And because I believe in that I don't think its fair to have female tournaments only. Work hard go pro. There is no easy way up. But this makes no sense. I don't see how there was anything in there that was a good argument for female only tournaments. If you think both parties can do well with hard work, why should the poster you were responding to be restricted from winning an easier tournament? Unless you believe that women's hard work is inherently much less effective than men's hard work. "Work hard, go pro. There's no easy way up." Eh? Then shouldn't that be the same for both genders, isn't offering a restrictive tournament with less skilled competition effectively an "easy way up" in the sense that it rewards being the best among a mediocre crowd. I'm not really following you here. I am saying that women can be as good as men if they train JUST as much and I was against female only tournaments for that reason. I misread your post so thoroughly and was hasty in my response. I thought your post didn't make any sense because you seemed to be making the opposite argument, but I simply misread your concluding sentences, your post makes more sense now that I understand the stance that you were actually arguing. My apologies.
Ah okay ^^.
I was thinking theres something very wrong with my English :D.
Thanks for clearing it up.
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Russian Federation823 Posts
Sorry but the OP is very embarassing.
At least remove the typos in the text. And what reactions do you expect if you post such a picture?
Besides, it seems like you wanted to pick up a female no matter what, therefore "after few months speaking with different girls, MaddeLisk was the better choice for our organization."
This is just not how you want to handle such things considering so many hostile comments regarding the recruitment of Flo.
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Congrats to MaddeLisk - hope eSahara treats you well and that they help you up your game and get you into some good tournaments. I have to say, I also have reservations on the picture they used and how it was cropped (I imagine there's a really nice dress outside the picture) but aside from that... You're masters, you're also masters while getting a PhD in Mathematics, and you're Swedish. Without falling completely to white-knight mode, you're better than me and I hope to hear about your rise in the competitive scene. Also, please post amazing analysis and scholarly essays on TL using that combined SC2/Math background. I'm sure there's things that could benefit from some rigorous mathematical analysis.
eSahara - nice pickup, but did you have to emphasize the gender aspect so heavily in your announcement?
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I wish people would realise you don't get rid of discrimination by ham-fisted positive discrimination, that only creates tension and prejudice. Girl gamers also have to realise you can't use being a girl as a marketing tool if you want to be treated with respect. Which is why I've got al ot of respect for someone like FLO who appears to take the game very seriously and doesn't want a free ticket due to being female. Not saying i don't have respect for MaddeLisk or other female progamers, don't think there's many unsigned starcraft players who would turn down an offer from a proteam but certainly the presentation eSahara has used for this announcement isn't helping anyone.
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lol standard TL response. bloody hell
best of luck to maddelisk in team and studies.
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I think people are also missing the point that having a female gamer (even if only as a gimmick) makes the game (or team) more appealing to the female demographic. + Show Spoiler +Also, although few will admit it, a cuter girl will be more likely to appeal to other females.
Further, I understand complaints that she's not at the same level as other pro players... How many better females players are available? People don't complain that managers or team casters aren't super high ranked... Sure, d.apollo can play, but no one talks about his skill in relation to being a member of dignitas. Unless female only tournaments become popular you have to think of these team acquisitions as something other than "competitive player".
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As a fan, I don't like this whole recruiting girls onto pro teams for show concept at all.
However, I realize from a business perspective it's genius. It all comes down to the esports target audience.
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On January 06 2012 03:16 Voltaire wrote:
As a fan, I don't like this whole recruiting girls onto pro teams for show concept at all.
However, I realize from a business perspective it's genius. It all comes down to the esports target audience.
Agreed. I'm not a fan of this at all.
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100% publicity move, but hey this how the real world works. If she's serious about improving then GL to her.
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Masters, Math Major, female... a winning combination. Its good to see the increase in female pros. I hope they perform well at events. I want to see her play Flo and Aphrodite.
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Poor girl must be looking at this thread and thinking "What's going on?!"
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On January 06 2012 03:37 kellymilkies wrote:
Poor girl must be looking at this thread and thinking "What's going on?!"
A barely mid-masters player joining a high profile team like eSahara? I think it would be silly if she didn't expect at least a little negativity lol
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Good to see more girls becoming accepting of progaming. (plus, she's a babe!!!!)
Featured stream plz!!!
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For a moment, I'm going to grant the (baseless) assumption that she was picked for her gender. Even if this were so, why would this be so terrible? There exist female leagues. People watch these leagues. Why would a team not want to sponsor someone in these leagues? It completely accomplishes their goal of advertising their company/products. Where do you get this delusional idea that a team's sole goal is to sponsor the very best players for the very top tournaments?
What do you believe would be "right'? Should players who participate in the female tournaments often just continue to play without sponsorship? Should teams be like "no way, I'm not picking her! That'd be discrimination! I don't care about the audience that the sponsorship would get from sponsoring her! If there exists a male player better out there, we must get him! Who cares if he may do poorly in the tournaments he plays in and our sponsorship will be completely useless. He's better, and that is all that matters!"
If sponsorship worked purely by the way lots of people on here seem to think it should work, this site would likely not even exist. And the whole foreign scene would probably have never had much of a chance to grow anywhere close to what it is now. And now people are asking that we exclude people, that we have some sort of elitist system which doesn't allow for the growth of any new pro player bases? Fucking hypocrites.
Good luck to eSahara and Maddelisk . I'm always so impressed with math PhD's, I have to imagine someone with a mind for that will be very successful at Starcraft. eSahara looks to have a pretty strong roster. I'm sure we'll be seeing lots from them.
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On January 06 2012 00:57 felisconcolori wrote:
Congrats to MaddeLisk - hope eSahara treats you well and that they help you up your game and get you into some good tournaments. I have to say, I also have reservations on the picture they used and how it was cropped (I imagine there's a really nice dress outside the picture) but aside from that... You're masters, you're also masters while getting a PhD in Mathematics, and you're Swedish. Without falling completely to white-knight mode, you're better than me and I hope to hear about your rise in the competitive scene. Also, please post amazing analysis and scholarly essays on TL using that combined SC2/Math background. I'm sure there's things that could benefit from some rigorous mathematical analysis.
eSahara - nice pickup, but did you have to emphasize the gender aspect so heavily in your announcement?
It's essentially the only reason they signed her. Of course they should emphasize the gender aspect. They went LOOKING for a girl player and she was the best they found.
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On January 06 2012 04:03 Befree wrote:For a moment, I'm going to grant the (baseless) assumption that she was picked for her gender. Even if this were so, why would this be so terrible? There exist female leagues. People watch these leagues. Why would a team not want to sponsor someone in these leagues? It completely accomplishes their goal of advertising their company/products. Where do you get this delusional idea that a team's sole goal is to sponsor the very best players for the very top tournaments? What do you believe would be "right'? Should players who participate in the female tournaments often just continue to play without sponsorship? Should teams be like "no way, I'm not picking her! That'd be discrimination! I don't care about the audience that the sponsorship would get from sponsoring her! If there exists a male player better out there, we must get him! Who cares if he may do poorly in the tournaments he plays in and our sponsorship will be completely useless. He's better, and that is all that matters!" If sponsorship worked purely by the way lots of people on here seem to think it should work, this site would likely not even exist. And the whole foreign scene would probably have never had much of a chance to grow anywhere close to what it is now. And now people are asking that we exclude people, that we have some sort of elitist system which doesn't allow for the growth of any new pro player bases? Fucking hypocrites. Good luck to eSahara and Maddelisk . I'm always so impressed with math PhD's, I have to imagine someone with a mind for that will be very successful at Starcraft. eSahara looks to have a pretty strong roster. I'm sure we'll be seeing lots from them.
Think I have to agree here. SC2 teams are businesses, they have to make money. The correct decision to maximize economic benefit isn't always picking up the absolute best player they can find. In this case, it was most likely picking up the best combination of attractiveness and skill to maximize publicity (and no publicity is bad publicity) and to have a fighting chance in the growing number of female-only competitions.
If eSahara sends in MaddeLisk for an all girls tournament and she ends up winning it (and honestly, she's not so terrible that I'd call that out of the question!) then that's a huge gain for the team as a whole. Even if she does end up just being eye-candy, though it would be a shame, no one can blame eSahara for picking her up just for the extra publicity. Honestly, look at this thread: 19 pages and counting. This new recruit is already paying off, in my opinion.
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There are female tourneys, of course there will be females on teams. Arguments about her relative skill to men are irrelevant and smack of sexism.
Congratulations to you MaddeLisk!
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To anyone getting upset over this: When you are a more profitable player for this team to pick up, then maybe you can say something.
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eSahara bringing the noise! Gratz MaddeLisk!
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Haha they should post pictures like that for all new players from now on, imagine a half naked team picture :-)
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Master league skill range is so wide. The differense between top and bottom master is like the differense between silver and diamond. And for the record maddelisk is really low masters.
Good luck with your new team and hope you can start practice more and get to grandmasters!
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On January 06 2012 04:25 SnuggleZhenya wrote:
To anyone getting upset over this: When you are a more profitable player for this team to pick up, then maybe you can say something.
Ridiculous argument, so football/basket/hockey fans cant get upset with ''bad'' pick-ups unless they themselves are more profitable aswell? Lol, good logic, bro.
This pickup is a publicity move, thats a fact, and guess what there is nothing wrong with that.
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Judging why Maddes Facebook page she can make a rather nice human flag. Great strength!
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I have a question and i dont mean to offend anyone in any way at all, but why is this becoming a trend? every team getting one female player? is it real talent? or is it a marketing scheme or something to show equality in rights of sexes etc
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On December 14 2011 18:23 sirachman wrote:
Are only attractive girls able to be good at Starcraft? I just find it hard to believe that every female to be signed by a team is. If this is just a coincidence that is fine. However if either teams only recruit women if they are attractive, or teams recruit people simply because they are then that is bad for eSports.
I've got a newsflash from the real world for you: looks matter. A lot.
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On January 06 2012 04:23 Deletrious wrote:
There are female tourneys, of course there will be females on teams. Arguments about her relative skill to men are irrelevant and smack of sexism.
Mate, wake up. If she is worse than... lets say Naama (and everyone in that team) and I say so, your opinion is I am sexist? That is just retarded. If someone is not as good at something, than someone other, he/she is just worse. It have nothing to do with sexism. I understand some people are raging/confused, even though I find it pointless. There are not that many girls/women playing SC2, so its logical elite girls aren't as good as elite guys, its just basic statistics. And when there are female tornaments, it is logical female-players enter pro scene, even though not being as good as male-elites.
About female SC2 competitions/tournaments... I dont know what to think about it... I dont find it negative nor possitive... I wish MaddeLisk luck, and also less stress when being interviewed, because anyone who thinks that any Diamond + can say thing like "My favourite strategy, well I like to play mass lings vs terran or mass muta vs ptotoss. But I'm not sure I have a favourite one.." meaning it, is just... dumb. She probably was just stressed, thats why she said something like it, or at least I think so.
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On January 06 2012 04:23 Deletrious wrote:
There are female tourneys, of course there will be females on teams. Arguments about her relative skill to men are irrelevant and smack of sexism.
Congratulations to you MaddeLisk!
Actually, you smack of sexism. You are advocating that a man and woman should never be compared (i.e. segregating based on sex).
Back on topic: Congratulations to you MaddeLisk!
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On January 05 2012 22:40 Equity213 wrote:
Boy I wish I was a girl so I could get sponsored out of master league.
A few folks said if Esahara has picked a man from the same skill level no one would complain: uhh yes we would. But thats a moot point because it would NEVER happen.
Whatever I dont mean to be a hater, im geniunely happy for her. However I have this crazy idea that those to be sponsored should be the best in their field, and not just be decent with tits.
Basically this, I disagree with this for 2 reasons. One because she's not as good, or do I think she will gain as much from being on a team (due to studying for a PHD), as a lot of other players would have if they had signed with eSahara instead. Basically I feel that she's stealing the place of a more deserving player.
Two, the fact that she is a girl only matters because this is so obviously a publicity stunt. If the thread was the same, but the title was "eSahara adds a black player" and the post was the same except about signing a black guy instead of a girl would that be ok?
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Signing a girl creates buzz... like how popular this is already getting, if your truly upset say/do nothing as your only adding to the benefits of signing a female for being female. Someone even mention in this thread they don't even know who esahara is and they do now, see my point.
Congrats to eSahara for getting their name further out there and congrats to maddelisk for getting picked up, people are more jealous then anything else and I hope to see you rise to full potential.
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I forsee a "Is Gender Discrimination Destroying esports" theard on the horizon.
But in all seriousness congrats to her.
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This is good for Maddelisk as she gets to train with awesome players and gets promoted by a decent team.
This is good for eSahara as they get attention around their relatively new team which helps them establish themselfs.
Congratulations to both
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How does a PhD student have time to play SC2 professionally? D:
Congrats to her and eSahara, glgl in the future.
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On January 06 2012 03:37 kellymilkies wrote:
Poor girl must be looking at this thread and thinking "What's going on?!"
*sigh* like noone could've seen this coming? honestly?
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i would get crazy living with her all day
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she's very pretty. all the good for her. just for getting that phd she has talent i bet she can quickly learn too
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In her league is  EffOrt so it must be a pretty incredible division!
+ Show Spoiler +
But seriously I have more points than her and I aint in no pro team
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On January 06 2012 05:05 Fus wrote:
Master league skill range is so wide. The differense between top and bottom master is like the differense between silver and diamond. And for the record maddelisk is really low masters.
Good luck with your new team and hope you can start practice more and get to grandmasters!
This is very true. Low masters is incomparable to high masters.
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eSahara gets scammed again, she has no idea shes joining team torlolololol xD
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On January 05 2012 19:37 Serimek wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2012 10:27 Daniel C wrote:On January 05 2012 08:00 Serimek wrote:
Congratulations and good luck to her. I do hope she'll be able to enhance is level thanks to her mates and thus become as good at SCII as cute (and cute she is indeed).
Slightly off topic as we don't know if she'll compete in traditional circuit or not, but I can't understand the point of female tournaments and leagues.
In traditional sports, there are both male and female category because of physiological differences (strength, weight, tall, etcetera). Fair enough. But being good at SC2 required intellectual and strategic capacities plus dexterity, things, as far as we know, absolutely independent of gender, except maybe due to sociological bias. So, what's the point of female tournaments and leagues ? It looks to me more sexist and indefensible to segregate women in women only league than accept the fact that there are actually few good female players, and that we must recognize them for their in-game talents if they deserve to. Ever heard of chess? The fact that someone actually do something is not a proof that it is fair or good to do so.
I'll give you that. But where's your proof that sc2 skill is "absolutely independent" of gender?
There's tons of sports and games out there that require less stamina and dexterity than sc2 (some even in the Olympics), but we don't hear any outrage from them. Why??? I think having women's tourneys is good, not bad, for esports.
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One point I would like to raise about the whole female only tournament side of things, is I am slightly worried that the same thing will happen with the sc2 female scene as did happen in CS. Namely, the female teams/players would have to practice a lot less than the male teams, and then would go on to win a comparable amount of money from a tournament for a lot less work. This caused quite a bit of friction as the lower end male teams would play them, beat them and then (rightfully) complain that for less or comparable the females were earning more. Hopefully the same won't happen here.
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On January 06 2012 11:18 Daniel C wrote:
I'll give you that. But where's your proof that sc2 skill is "absolutely independent" of gender?
Women are awesome at multitasking, ergo (theoretically) women > men (when it comes to SC2)
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Gonna need more than 300 apm to please her.
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On January 06 2012 03:37 kellymilkies wrote:
Poor girl must be looking at this thread and thinking "What's going on?!"
That's how I pictured her reaction when she found out she was being recruited to a professional team.
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1) From Sweden, check
2) PhD Mathematics student, check
3) Pretty, check
4) Plays SC2 at the professional level, check
5) Plays Zerg, FFFFUUUUUUFUUFUFUFUUU
Toss forever, 4/5 not bad though.
Good luck!
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She's pretty beautiful. Hope she performs. eSahara is quickly becoming a favorite foreigner team.. even though they had their part in embarrassment think they will be strong! Maka is amazing and I hope to see more from maddelisk in the future!
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On January 06 2012 05:52 DDie wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2012 04:25 SnuggleZhenya wrote:
To anyone getting upset over this: When you are a more profitable player for this team to pick up, then maybe you can say something. Ridiculous argument, so football/basket/hockey fans cant get upset with ''bad'' pick-ups unless they themselves are more profitable aswell? Lol, good logic, bro. This pickup is a publicity move, thats a fact, and guess what there is nothing wrong with that.
This isn't a team sport where you are trying to win a championship to draw in fans. Starcraft Teams invest in players because they make that team money. Winning tournaments is not only one way. Finally, professional teams pick up "names" to fill seats all the time, and you know what, they do fill the seats. Maybe its an aging star or something who is past their prime, but the team is rebuilding and he can bring in fans even though the team won't win. Is that a bad pickup? You're arbitrarily applying non business standards to a business decision, yes, it is for money. The rub is EVERY signing to an SC2 Team is for money. Get over it.
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One should not be discriminating just because of gender. While it is great to see females playing, but they do not have special 'priority' just because they are girls (unless there is a different competitive female league, which is currently unavailable)
Maybe this helps with popularity idk, but SC2 has many male fan base, while SC1 has greater female fan base (who do not really understand the game, but idolize the players). So maybe because there is a large male fan base, female players might be better for teams right?
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This leaves guys fantasizing that their girl-friends also play SC2 lol!
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Can someone list me a number of female pro-gamers?
I want to check their stats.
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On January 06 2012 12:22 SnuggleZhenya wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2012 05:52 DDie wrote:On January 06 2012 04:25 SnuggleZhenya wrote:
To anyone getting upset over this: When you are a more profitable player for this team to pick up, then maybe you can say something. Ridiculous argument, so football/basket/hockey fans cant get upset with ''bad'' pick-ups unless they themselves are more profitable aswell? Lol, good logic, bro. This pickup is a publicity move, thats a fact, and guess what there is nothing wrong with that. This isn't a team sport where you are trying to win a championship to draw in fans. Starcraft Teams invest in players because they make that team money. Winning tournaments is not only one way. Finally, professional teams pick up "names" to fill seats all the time, and you know what, they do fill the seats. Maybe its an aging star or something who is past their prime, but the team is rebuilding and he can bring in fans even though the team won't win. Is that a bad pickup? You're arbitrarily applying non business standards to a business decision, yes, it is for money. The rub is EVERY signing to an SC2 Team is for money. Get over it.
In all the scenarios you mentioned, the player has earned something through their own dedication over their peers. An aging star is still someone who has earned his reputation through his play. That is not the case with these pick-ups.
If they're doing it for money and publicity, good for them. With any positive publicity that they get comes negative publicity and absolutely valid criticisms. In a similar vein, just because female only tournaments can be profitable doesn't mean they're fair. If you want to cop-out with, "Life's unfair, get over it" then sure, go for it, but people have valid criticisms.
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On January 06 2012 12:22 SnuggleZhenya wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2012 05:52 DDie wrote:On January 06 2012 04:25 SnuggleZhenya wrote:
To anyone getting upset over this: When you are a more profitable player for this team to pick up, then maybe you can say something. Ridiculous argument, so football/basket/hockey fans cant get upset with ''bad'' pick-ups unless they themselves are more profitable aswell? Lol, good logic, bro. This pickup is a publicity move, thats a fact, and guess what there is nothing wrong with that. This isn't a team sport where you are trying to win a championship to draw in fans. Starcraft Teams invest in players because they make that team money. Winning tournaments is not only one way. Finally, professional teams pick up "names" to fill seats all the time, and you know what, they do fill the seats. Maybe its an aging star or something who is past their prime, but the team is rebuilding and he can bring in fans even though the team won't win. Is that a bad pickup? You're arbitrarily applying non business standards to a business decision, yes, it is for money. The rub is EVERY signing to an SC2 Team is for money. Get over it.
You have issues with text interpretation, let me help you with that:
On January 06 2012 05:52 DDie wrote:This pickup is a publicity move, thats a fact, and guess what there is nothing wrong with that.
In the first sentence I'm adressing the fact that this move is entirely to make money, in the second one i'm saying that this is how thing works, and that there is nothing wrong with it.
You're welcome.
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Awesome pickup. This girl is awesome. Go MaddeLisk!
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On December 14 2011 01:26 Cyro wrote:
"Girl player" in the headlines so that the name is bumped off thread list.
Ive never heard of this team before, and this is definatly not the right way to promote them... thread titles like this invalidate female gamers everywhere.
Actually, adding a female player IS exactly what many teams are doing to promote themselves. It's good publicity, PR, and rep.
EDIT: Gah, just noticed this thread is 3 weeks old :S.
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Not the best possible picture selected there. No idea who she is but i supose she's got real talent in the game, so grats to you and eSahara.
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Why do people have such a problem with girls joining pro teams... personaly i think each team should have 1 or two girls, this would promote more girl only tournys which i personaly enjoy.
How is this bad?
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If you're gonna hire an unknown player onto your team, you should do it because he/she is a good player and not because he/she will get you headlines and something to talk about. If she has potential, and I bet she does, then hopefully eSahara can do some good for her and we'll see some good games with Maddelisk (great name, I love how most girls use their name as part of their handle) in the future. Also, hopefully the next photos eSahara will showcase will have Madeleine actually wearing clothes.
That was a joke.
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On January 08 2012 21:08 Areon wrote:
If you're gonna hire an unknown player onto your team, you should do it because he/she is a good player and not because he/she will get you headlines and something to talk about. If she has potential, and I bet she does, then hopefully eSahara can do some good for her and we'll see some good games with Maddelisk (great name, I love how most girls use their name as part of their handle) in the future. Also, hopefully the next photos eSahara will showcase will have Madeleine actually wearing clothes.
That was a joke.
You know, as a business, you need more than just someone who's good. You need someone who has followers, etc. I think EG and coL stated it pretty well.
Edit : In the end, it's exposure you want. Exposure for your partners (read : sponsors), players, your brand.
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The female gamer wave is just too funny. Hope she pans out to be good.
On the other hand i can't wait for ZeNEX to pick up ZeGirlNEXdoor.
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Played maddelisk a few days ago, she's pretty good but seems to lack multitasking. If she works on that I'm sure she will be very good. Even tho I'm only mid masters
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I'm late to the party, but come on, don't make a thread about your new girl gamer and make her look topless, wtf.
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She's very low master... another girl used for marketing !
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O.o
User was warned for this post
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
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EPT![[image loading]](http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/7193/dsc08925k.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/Zicon_small.png)
MaddeLisk" Leander![[image loading]](http://images.wikia.com/callofduty/images/7/72/Troll_HD.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://gfx.esl.eu/media/eu/wc3/WCIP/MaddeliskFlag.jpg)
