The body of a computer purchased from KT i5 CPU 8 GB of RAM, graphics card is the GTX560 is the latest generation of high-end. In addition, 17-inch CRT monitors were replaced with 24-inch LCD monitor...
(Check the article for pics, they also have Razer mouse pads, I didn't recognize if the actual mouse was Razer too..)
Gangdogyeong coach, "the computer for more than 10,005 years, is using almost six years old, I was to be replaced. As long as it is to buy good I think we had set as its own high-end. Not decent players after the practice has been replaced with state-of-the-art computer environment gaeseondwae greatly pleased, "he said.
I can understand the need to upgrade a 6 year old computer, but getting a freaking GTX560 in each? 8GB of RAM? There is something to be said for having a fast computer for your use, but if this isn't for getting ready for SC2 or some other 3D game, then I think it's overly extravagant for Brood War pros, unless they REALLY wanted to play Deus Ex:HR in their free time.
While I was never a huge Brood War follower, I sincerely hope this is either:
A) A NEW KT Rolster SC2 Team B) A Hardware Upgrade for no reason
I'd hate to see the current A-Team from Rolster switch over, it makes much more sense to sign a new SC2 team, seeing as Proleague will now feature both SC2 and Brood War.
On October 25 2011 03:02 VirgilSC2 wrote: While I was never a huge Brood War follower, I sincerely hope this is either:
A) A NEW KT Rolster SC2 Team B) A Hardware Upgrade for no reason
I'd hate to see the current A-Team from Rolster switch over, it makes much more sense to sign a new SC2 team, seeing as Proleague will now feature both SC2 and Brood War.
EDIT: * removed image *
Them making a team wouldn't be weird
The A team switching would be retarded, I mean in the last 3 years they got WL bronze, WL silver, won WL and won SPL twice. Why wouldn't they milk more out of that? :D
I wonder if bw players start playing sc2 in pro league, is it going to be a divided scene in korea? Like will bw pros only be allowed to play sc2 in pro league, so there will be no intermingling of bw pros and sc2 pros in tourneys?
On October 25 2011 03:02 VirgilSC2 wrote: While I was never a huge Brood War follower, I sincerely hope this is either:
A) A NEW KT Rolster SC2 Team B) A Hardware Upgrade for no reason
I'd hate to see the current A-Team from Rolster switch over, it makes much more sense to sign a new SC2 team, seeing as Proleague will now feature both SC2 and Brood War.
I highly doubt any BW pros will switch, wouldn't they have to give up their Kespa Progamer licenses to play SC2 competitively? I think it's most likely KT Rolster, if they are doing anything with SC2 , will create a new SC2-only team from B-teamers or new recruits.
On October 25 2011 03:00 Sabu113 wrote: Not sure how to feel. Guess this is good? as long as they keep KT fingerbang going.
Fingerboom lol not Fingerbang.
I like this, but I also don't. This would definitely show even more support for the Korean pro scene, but at the same time, even if KT goes with both leagues, more and more B teamers and lower will be likely to switch over to SC2. I just don't want anything to happen to my Brood War
This is just my own pondering, but I think that Blizzard is preparing to release an updated graphics BW - an "official" SC2BW, if you like. I remember seeing Starcraft: Phoenix on the estimated timeline sheet of Blizzard and thinking that it sounds likely - after all, how many more foreigner fans would it bring in, being able to watch BW without the crappy graphics? I expect them to keep the retarded AI etc the same, so that it doesn't alienate BW watchers.
Not really substantiated by evidence at all, just my hopes ^_^
do kt not have teams in other games, or just BW? i really don't know as i don't follow korean e-sports other than brood war, but they might be running stuff that needs an overhaul. maybe.
CRT to lcd is more of a down grade though.. even if a 120hz lcd, its still much slowe than the 150-250 HZ crts can push through at BW resolution
On October 25 2011 03:07 SeaSwift wrote: This is just my own pondering, but I think that Blizzard is preparing to release an updated graphics BW - an "official" SC2BW, if you like. I remember seeing Starcraft: Phoenix on the estimated timeline sheet of Blizzard and thinking that it sounds likely - after all, how many more foreigner fans would it bring in, being able to watch BW without the crappy graphics? I expect them to keep the retarded AI etc the same, so that it doesn't alienate BW watchers.
Not really substantiated by evidence at all, just my hopes ^_^
So I remember asking in a LR thread,for the IPL it was I think,why they are playing on old CRT monitors and people told me that the new monitors can't handle the awesomeness off 640x480 So yea,from that I can't see why they would order new monitors for BW purposes.
On October 25 2011 03:07 SeaSwift wrote: This is just my own pondering, but I think that Blizzard is preparing to release an updated graphics BW - an "official" SC2BW, if you like. I remember seeing Starcraft: Phoenix on the estimated timeline sheet of Blizzard and thinking that it sounds likely - after all, how many more foreigner fans would it bring in, being able to watch BW without the crappy graphics? I expect them to keep the retarded AI etc the same, so that it doesn't alienate BW watchers.
Not really substantiated by evidence at all, just my hopes ^_^
Frankly, I hope so too. Maybe that's why all those BW pros were invited to BlizzCon? To show it to them first? Here's hoping.
I'm hoping for a KT SC2 team comprised of players in it's BW team who are either B-Teamers/good practice partners, older and are interested in trying something new etc etc.
Delete the picture, I reckong you cannot use fomos OC on tl.
Anyway, that razer logo is suspicious....
Razer is pretty much a big player in korea already, being one of the main sponsors for slayers. The specific choice of intel and nvidia (both slayers and blizzard partners) is pretty revealing too.
"baseless conjecture" Are these companies pushing some kind of agenda? I mean, every single piece of hardware comes from companies sponsoring sc2 (even a LG monitor instead of a samsung one..).
On October 25 2011 03:09 BroodWarHD wrote: CRT to lcd is more of a down grade though.. even if a 120hz lcd, its still much slowe than the 150-250 HZ crts can push through at BW resolution
Why in the world would you ever use 250Hz refresh rate? Can you strafe jump further with 200fps+? Is 60fps somehow not enough for BW?
It's not for BW. Yes teams are upgrading equipment for the possibility of SC2 and KeSPA teams are seriously considering having both. Does that mean people will switch? No, not really. However if the current BW teams were to offer stable salaries, contracts & similar conditions to a SC2 division, people who want to switch could without any worry.
On October 25 2011 03:07 SeaSwift wrote: This is just my own pondering, but I think that Blizzard is preparing to release an updated graphics BW - an "official" SC2BW, if you like. I remember seeing Starcraft: Phoenix on the estimated timeline sheet of Blizzard and thinking that it sounds likely - after all, how many more foreigner fans would it bring in, being able to watch BW without the crappy graphics? I expect them to keep the retarded AI etc the same, so that it doesn't alienate BW watchers.
Not really substantiated by evidence at all, just my hopes ^_^
Nothing on the internet confirms that Starcraft: Phoenix is a BW remake. This theory has absolutely no evidence to support itself. The last thing Blizzard needs is a BW remake. It will impact the success of SC2 in Korea. It's off-season for Proleague right now, and the WCG viewer counts alone shows quite alot of BW fans are willing to switch over to SC2 when BW is no more. And even if Blizzard ends up working on a BW remake, it will never get full approval because the engine won't be able to replicate all of the important bugs and glitches that is part of the metagame.
On October 25 2011 03:02 VirgilSC2 wrote: While I was never a huge Brood War follower, I sincerely hope this is either:
A) A NEW KT Rolster SC2 Team B) A Hardware Upgrade for no reason
I'd hate to see the current A-Team from Rolster switch over, it makes much more sense to sign a new SC2 team, seeing as Proleague will now feature both SC2 and Brood War.
On October 25 2011 03:11 PlosionCornu wrote: Delete the picture, I reckong you cannot use fomos OC on tl.
Anyway, that razer logo is suspicious....
Razer is pretty much a big player in korea already, being one of the main sponsors for slayers. The specific choice of intel and nvidia (both slayers and blizzard partners) is pretty revealing too.
"baseless conjecture" Are these companies pushing some kind of agenda? I mean, every single piece of hardware comes from companies sponsoring sc2 (even a LG monitor instead of a samsung one..).
Since it was edited into the OP after being re-hosted I went ahead and removed it, but I haven't seen that anywhere, and I'm not really sure why it wouldn't be allowed...
On October 25 2011 03:09 BroodWarHD wrote: CRT to lcd is more of a down grade though.. even if a 120hz lcd, its still much slowe than the 150-250 HZ crts can push through at BW resolution
Why in the world would you ever use 250Hz refresh rate? Can you strafe jump further with 200fps+? Is 60fps somehow not enough for BW?
In rts games probably not so important but fast paced shooters it helps a ton with aiming, especially hitscan weapons. Once you go 200Hz.. you can FEEL the difference. Its like Neo discovering reality for he first time, its hard to describe.
On October 25 2011 03:19 Clefairy wrote: I doubt it has anything to do with an SC2 Pro League. Kespa doesn't have the power to decide that on their own. They were just overdue for an upgrade.
This isn't the first thing that's been hinted at for a SC2 Pro-League, there was something about it not too long ago IIRC.
On October 25 2011 03:19 Clefairy wrote: I doubt it has anything to do with an SC2 Pro League. Kespa doesn't have the power to decide that on their own. They were just overdue for an upgrade.
This isn't the first thing that's been hinted at for a SC2 Pro-League, there was something about it not too long ago IIRC.
yeah it doesn't hurt to prep for it anyway with new computers if the old ones were 6 years old.
Obviously they are upgrading because Flash's bionic implants allow him to integrate himself onto these newer systems allowing him to play BW at the highest current level possible in humans.
On October 25 2011 03:19 Clefairy wrote: I doubt it has anything to do with an SC2 Pro League. Kespa doesn't have the power to decide that on their own. They were just overdue for an upgrade.
This isn't the first thing that's been hinted at for a SC2 Pro-League, there was something about it not too long ago IIRC.
On October 25 2011 03:19 Clefairy wrote: I doubt it has anything to do with an SC2 Pro League. Kespa doesn't have the power to decide that on their own. They were just overdue for an upgrade.
they may be overdue for an upgrade, but that is overkill for Brood War
On October 25 2011 03:19 Clefairy wrote: I doubt it has anything to do with an SC2 Pro League. Kespa doesn't have the power to decide that on their own. They were just overdue for an upgrade.
This isn't the first thing that's been hinted at for a SC2 Pro-League, there was something about it not too long ago IIRC.
On October 25 2011 03:19 Clefairy wrote: I doubt it has anything to do with an SC2 Pro League. Kespa doesn't have the power to decide that on their own. They were just overdue for an upgrade.
they may be overdue for an upgrade, but that is overkill for Brood War
I actually think that that kind of hardware would prove itself detrimental for practicing bw.
Sc1 does not like wide screen, not in the slightest.
I'm not gonna jump on the "omg they switch" bandwagon, but it really seems fishy. Why buy this good hardware for BW? Is there any other game in Korea that OGN broadcasts that may demand this type of hardware? I don't think I've heard any tbh that would need this good of a rig.
It may not be SC2, but they either have too much cash and they can't see any other way to use it but wiping their asses and creating a bed of money, or they are going to use the computer for other, graphically demanding games. It may be SC2 or Crysis 2 or Witcher 2, no idea. But there is definitely a reason to speculate.
On October 25 2011 03:19 Clefairy wrote: I doubt it has anything to do with an SC2 Pro League. Kespa doesn't have the power to decide that on their own. They were just overdue for an upgrade.
This isn't the first thing that's been hinted at for a SC2 Pro-League, there was something about it not too long ago IIRC.
On October 25 2011 03:07 SeaSwift wrote: This is just my own pondering, but I think that Blizzard is preparing to release an updated graphics BW - an "official" SC2BW, if you like. I remember seeing Starcraft: Phoenix on the estimated timeline sheet of Blizzard and thinking that it sounds likely - after all, how many more foreigner fans would it bring in, being able to watch BW without the crappy graphics? I expect them to keep the retarded AI etc the same, so that it doesn't alienate BW watchers.
Not really substantiated by evidence at all, just my hopes ^_^
Thefuck you talkin' bout, BW graphics are immaculate. You best check yoself, for you wreck yoself.
Side-note: Didn't OGN just upgrade a shitton of equipment to accommodate SC2 WCG casts? KT just accommodating to that equipment maybe?
On October 25 2011 03:19 Clefairy wrote: I doubt it has anything to do with an SC2 Pro League. Kespa doesn't have the power to decide that on their own. They were just overdue for an upgrade.
This isn't the first thing that's been hinted at for a SC2 Pro-League, there was something about it not too long ago IIRC.
I think they are just showing off their money, and possible hardware sponsor, but I highly, highly doubt it's a SC2 switch... Bisu, Fantasy, and the others got paid for their trip to Blizzcon, so it's really just a coincidence. They may have another use but I won't think it's SC2 until more evidence is provided. Definitely overkill though.
On October 25 2011 03:02 VirgilSC2 wrote: While I was never a huge Brood War follower, I sincerely hope this is either:
A) A NEW KT Rolster SC2 Team B) A Hardware Upgrade for no reason
I'd hate to see the current A-Team from Rolster switch over, it makes much more sense to sign a new SC2 team, seeing as Proleague will now feature both SC2 and Brood War.
EDIT:
What is the keyboard that is being used in this?
ZOWIE Celeritas! Awesome keyboard :D Use it myself
On October 25 2011 03:46 Longshank wrote: It does seem odd to buy a bunch of wide screen monitors for BW, especially when a SC2 PL has been hinted.
no it doesnt, it makes perfect sense to me, its because a sc2 PL has been hinted, they are preparing to create a sc2 team, and possibly some of the B-teamers would be switching over, i could see this logically from most of the korean sc:bw proteams to create a sc2 division if sc2PL is a go, and remember, they would know first
On October 25 2011 03:46 Longshank wrote: It does seem odd to buy a bunch of wide screen monitors for BW, especially when a SC2 PL has been hinted.
no it doesnt, it makes perfect sense to me, its because a sc2 PL has been hinted, they are preparing to create a sc2 team, and possibly some of the B-teamers would be switching over, i could see this logically from most of the korean sc:bw proteams to create a sc2 division if sc2PL is a go, and remember, they would know first
That's what he's saying.
He said it doesn't make any sense to buy Widescreen Monitors for Brood War.
I don't think that necessarily means they are taking an interest in SC2 or anything. I'd be willing to bet at least a few team members play SC2 casually; I know there are certain BW progamers who follow the SC2 scene. Other than that, i'm sure there are other games they would like to play on their off-time that requires a better computer.
On October 25 2011 03:46 Longshank wrote: It does seem odd to buy a bunch of wide screen monitors for BW, especially when a SC2 PL has been hinted.
no it doesnt, it makes perfect sense to me, its because a sc2 PL has been hinted, they are preparing to create a sc2 team, and possibly some of the B-teamers would be switching over, i could see this logically from most of the korean sc:bw proteams to create a sc2 division if sc2PL is a go, and remember, they would know first
That's what he's saying.
He said it doesn't make any sense to buy Widescreen Monitors for Brood War.
ah, i can see that, but still just because you are buying new monitors doesnt mean that you are junking the old ones, they might still have some of those old crts around
The body of a computer purchased from KT i5 CPU 8 GB of RAM, graphics card is the GTX560 is the latest generation of high-end. In addition, 17-inch CRT monitors were replaced with 24-inch LCD monitor...
Gangdogyeong coach, "the computer for more than 10,005 years, is using almost six years old, I was to be replaced. As long as it is to buy good I think we had set as its own high-end. Not decent players after the practice has been replaced with state-of-the-art computer environment gaeseondwae greatly pleased, "he said.
I can understand the need to upgrade a 6 year old computer, but getting a freaking GTX560 in each? 8GB of RAM? There is something to be said for having a fast computer for your use, but if this isn't for getting ready for SC2 or some other 3D game, then I think it's overly extravagant for Brood War pros, unless they REALLY wanted to play Deus Ex:HR in their free time.
The new computers are needed , because the old ones can't handle the return of Flash 3.0 thats all .
On October 25 2011 03:46 Longshank wrote: It does seem odd to buy a bunch of wide screen monitors for BW, especially when a SC2 PL has been hinted.
no it doesnt, it makes perfect sense to me, its because a sc2 PL has been hinted, they are preparing to create a sc2 team, and possibly some of the B-teamers would be switching over, i could see this logically from most of the korean sc:bw proteams to create a sc2 division if sc2PL is a go, and remember, they would know first
That's what he's saying.
He said it doesn't make any sense to buy Widescreen Monitors for Brood War.
ah, i can see that, but still just because you are buying new monitors doesnt mean that you are junking the old ones, they might still have some of those old crts around
I think the point he's trying to make is that it would be silly to buy Widescreens for their new computer if they're sticking to only playing Brood War, it would make much more sense to buy new computers, and keep their CRT monitors if it was just a routine "hardware upgrade"
This is just more evidence that SC2 is slowly taking hold in Korea.
On October 25 2011 03:58 pbjsandwich wrote: how do they even stretch it like that?
Depending on your monitor/graphics card, it might be the default way it deals with smaller resolutions... and it really sucks playing a game that's not it's actual aspect ratio. Why any Brood War team would get wide screen LCD's (there are plenty of 4:3 aspect ratio LCD screens) AND get some powerful graphics cards, as a player I would be begging to get my CRT back, or at least a 4:3 monitor.
if the upgraded computers OGN uses become the standard computers used for BW play, then it would be smart to upgrade to similar PC hardware to try to mimic the same feel as playing in the booths as closely as possible
On October 25 2011 03:46 Longshank wrote: It does seem odd to buy a bunch of wide screen monitors for BW, especially when a SC2 PL has been hinted.
no it doesnt, it makes perfect sense to me, its because a sc2 PL has been hinted, they are preparing to create a sc2 team, and possibly some of the B-teamers would be switching over, i could see this logically from most of the korean sc:bw proteams to create a sc2 division if sc2PL is a go, and remember, they would know first
That's what he's saying.
He said it doesn't make any sense to buy Widescreen Monitors for Brood War.
ah, i can see that, but still just because you are buying new monitors doesnt mean that you are junking the old ones, they might still have some of those old crts around
I think the point he's trying to make is that it would be silly to buy Widescreens for their new computer if they're sticking to only playing Brood War, it would make much more sense to buy new computers, and keep their CRT monitors if it was just a routine "hardware upgrade"
This is just more evidence that SC2 is slowly taking hold in Korea.
yea, i realize that now, thx -tired T_T
i didnt think sc2 would take hold in korea this late, actually after its original flop in korea due to the low skill ceiling at the start and lack of mechanical skill needed at the start i was wondering if it ever would since bw is a more mechanically demanding game, as it seems though in sc2 at least with terran you are rewarded for playing fast and with good multitasking, which is probably why its starting to get a few bites, i wonder when we will see more protosses and zergs at the highest level though T_T blizz needs to fix the design flaws of Z and especially P
On October 25 2011 04:15 repsac wrote: do any of the manufacturers even produce 4:3s anymore?
i think a few do if its a smaller end walk-in computer store but no if you were to go to a best buy(or comparable walk in "computer" hardware store) Youd find mostly 16 : 9s and 16 : 10s, at best buy at least there is maybe one 4:3 if i remember correctly when i was looking at their stuff in store, but I think you had to have it shipped from a warehouse to the store.
On the net though is a completely different story, you can get em and have them shipped, hell I think new egg even sells em.
I think if we put all the little pieces together it's pretty obvious that there is some sort of preparation for the bw teams to switch over to SC2. Most probably Kespa looking at how sc2 exploded internationally and they want a bite too, so they are pushing the teams towards that direction.
I can imagine some Kespa high staff browsing the internetz and finding out that a group of fans got 4k(or was it 2) for MKP to travel to US and going '' Holy mother of Flash, we need to milk that cow ''.
On October 25 2011 04:09 masterbreti wrote: I think there are 2 reasons to do this
1, ogn might be switching to lcd for better presentation which means they have to switch in order to make sure all the settings are the same and such.
2, advertising. They have KT products in the computer, which would make the article a great advertisement for their products.
That still doesn't answer why they get 16 : 9 instead of 4 : 3, which is better suited for BW.
it's literally a screenshot displaying the machines....
i doubt this is any indication of what they use ingame
Of course they don't run the game in wide screen but playing in 4 : 3 on a 16 : 9 monitor isn't optimal, and I doubt KT would settle for anything but optimal practice conditions when it comes to hardware selection.
Any time you buy a new computer you want it to be somewhat top of the line. I'm sure a company like that wants to have top end computers, even if it is just for BW.
On October 25 2011 03:07 SeaSwift wrote: This is just my own pondering, but I think that Blizzard is preparing to release an updated graphics BW - an "official" SC2BW, if you like. I remember seeing Starcraft: Phoenix on the estimated timeline sheet of Blizzard and thinking that it sounds likely - after all, how many more foreigner fans would it bring in, being able to watch BW without the crappy graphics? I expect them to keep the retarded AI etc the same, so that it doesn't alienate BW watchers.
Not really substantiated by evidence at all, just my hopes ^_^
Rather new to the scene, aren't you? Reviving BW is the very last thing on the mind of Blizzard.
The story fits with rumors of SC2 on OGN, SC progamers watching GSL finals, teams disbanding, match fixing and so on.
There is less money to be made in SC:BW then in SC2 and Korea is starting to get that. Their stubbornness in negotiation with Blizzard might backfire now.
i thought crt's give better framerates or something. maybe they just had extra cash lying around and just burnt it on new pc's, or the progamers had spare time t o play intense games
On October 25 2011 03:46 Longshank wrote: It does seem odd to buy a bunch of wide screen monitors for BW, especially when a SC2 PL has been hinted.
no it doesnt, it makes perfect sense to me, its because a sc2 PL has been hinted, they are preparing to create a sc2 team, and possibly some of the B-teamers would be switching over, i could see this logically from most of the korean sc:bw proteams to create a sc2 division if sc2PL is a go, and remember, they would know first
That's what he's saying.
He said it doesn't make any sense to buy Widescreen Monitors for Brood War.
ah, i can see that, but still just because you are buying new monitors doesnt mean that you are junking the old ones, they might still have some of those old crts around
I think the point he's trying to make is that it would be silly to buy Widescreens for their new computer if they're sticking to only playing Brood War, it would make much more sense to buy new computers, and keep their CRT monitors if it was just a routine "hardware upgrade"
This is just more evidence that SC2 is slowly taking hold in Korea.
yea, i realize that now, thx -tired T_T
i didnt think sc2 would take hold in korea this late, actually after its original flop in korea due to the low skill ceiling at the start and lack of mechanical skill needed at the start i was wondering if it ever would since bw is a more mechanically demanding game, as it seems though in sc2 at least with terran you are rewarded for playing fast and with good multitasking, which is probably why its starting to get a few bites, i wonder when we will see more protosses and zergs at the highest level though T_T blizz needs to fix the design flaws of Z and especially P
low skill ceiling? It's not as if there are 3 people constantly winning GSL, i mean if there was such a low skill ceiling how the fuck could anyone win gsl 3 times in a row? noob just rape them cause no skill
On October 25 2011 05:08 Leeoku wrote: maybe they just had extra cash lying around and just burnt it on new pc's, or the progamers had spare time t o play intense games
I'm thinking this too.
When you win Proleague some money you never expected to win, there's always this itch to spend it on fancy stuff.
On October 25 2011 03:01 BearStorm wrote: REACH SWITCHES AND DOMINATES SC2?!
Stop. Seriously, this shits needs to stop. For fuck's sake, PLEASE STOP DOING THAT. Enough of "PLS PLS BW PRO SWITCH AND DOMINATE". Stop it. Makes me sick.
On October 25 2011 03:01 BearStorm wrote: REACH SWITCHES AND DOMINATES SC2?!
Stop. Seriously, this shits needs to stop. For fuck's sake, PLEASE STOP DOING THAT. Enough of "PLS PLS BW PRO SWITCH AND DOMINATE". Stop it. Makes me sick.
Dude, chill the fuck out. You care way too much about what people say.
On October 25 2011 03:01 BearStorm wrote: REACH SWITCHES AND DOMINATES SC2?!
Stop. Seriously, this shits needs to stop. For fuck's sake, PLEASE STOP DOING THAT. Enough of "PLS PLS BW PRO SWITCH AND DOMINATE". Stop it. Makes me sick.
Did you already say he should stop?
Anyways I think they think ahead so if they switch in a year or two they'll be ready for it.
On October 25 2011 03:01 BearStorm wrote: REACH SWITCHES AND DOMINATES SC2?!
Stop. Seriously, this shits needs to stop. For fuck's sake, PLEASE STOP DOING THAT. Enough of "PLS PLS BW PRO SWITCH AND DOMINATE". Stop it. Makes me sick.
I have a quote from the legendary rapper T.I. for you:
I don't really see why some people are having a problem with them preparing just incase Kespa adopts SC2. You might not like it, but apparently Kespa is seriously considering it, and if they are, so should the pro teams.
On October 25 2011 03:01 BearStorm wrote: REACH SWITCHES AND DOMINATES SC2?!
Stop. Seriously, this shits needs to stop. For fuck's sake, PLEASE STOP DOING THAT. Enough of "PLS PLS BW PRO SWITCH AND DOMINATE". Stop it. Makes me sick.
Man I hope bw pros switch over soon. I wonder if they'll be as good as mvp and nestea.
Really interested in seeing the really good BW players transfer over to see this proposed skill difference between the current SC2 players and BW players. It is probably going to happen soon if they got a tech upgrade.
But really this can only mean one thing. They consider buying better computers for any size of consideration of playing a future game. Which would be SC2. AKA they are considering or are already preparing for SC2. Actually, if they're considering it you could count that as preparing too eh? xD
Also aren't those keyboards a bit bad with all that extra space at the front (the space closest to the camera, below the space bar) ? Keyboards should be placed at the edge of the table or close to it, where your wrists can touch the table without getting carpel tunnel syndrome.
-.- Well it really wouldnt be so horrible to see some of the better B-Teamers start to make inroads into SC2... For instance Puma who switched over isn't the best, but he managed to make far more money than he would have B-Teaming... There's nothing that says that BW/SC2 succeeds at the expense of the other...
its probably so they can begin testing sc2 i highly doubt we'll see a mass overhaul into sc2 yet but im assuming this way they can familiarize themselves with the game when they have free time
On October 25 2011 06:07 SLenDeRlol wrote: I really hope that they switch over. 500 APM would dominate SC2.
It is dominating already----> MMA. The easier spell and macro mechanics will enable them to multitask like mofos just like mma does. That's the future imho.
I think they are changing computers because the ones they play on in proleague will be upgraded for sc2 so the BW pros need to be used to playing on the newer computers. The hardware is definitely overkill thou for BW and SC2
On October 25 2011 06:07 SLenDeRlol wrote: I really hope that they switch over. 500 APM would dominate SC2.
It is dominating already----> MMA. The easier spell and macro mechanics will enable them to multitask like mofos just like mma does. That's the future imho.
There's already many players with that high APM. 350 (old) ingame APM ~= 500 APM and I've seen enough players with that high APM or even higher.
On October 25 2011 05:52 Thurokiir wrote: Wow. No i7's? the builds they got are like 600-700 bucks top end.
Super cheap stuff. Probs just cleaning up house because no one likes dealing with old comps.
Nah, they are ATLEAST 1500$ rigs.
And you most certainty don't need a GTX 560 for BW anyways.
I just ordered an almost identical(judging by the limited info) rig but with GTX 560ti and an SSD disc for somewhere around 1300$, so to get to 1500$ you'd have to include include pretty much everything mouse+mouse pad, head-set, speakers and god-knows-what included. But yeah, it's more than 600-700$.
They'll probably switch over one of their so-so A-team Terrans, if they're smart. A well-trained A-teamer could demolish a huge portion of the SC2 community. Probably take over a few B teamers as well, to be used as practice partners.
If they want to just be mean, they bring over Flash.
On October 25 2011 06:42 Treva wrote: Why is this under the SC2 section?
A thread made with the purpose of playing with the idea and possibility of KT switching to/picking up SC2 would be frowned upon in the BW section. That they're getting new hardware is irrelevant to most of us, what's interesting is what that hardware could be used for.
Eh, I really hope the BW teams don't set up completely new SC2 teams, as it would oversaturate the scene. A Proleague or GSTL with both original SC2 teams and SC2 divisions of BW teams would be too oversaturated. Having a separate Proleague for SC2 divisions of BW teams and a GSTL for original SC2 teams would be too divisive for the community. Either way would end disastrously.
Thus, I hope that if the BW teams end up opening SC2 divisions, they would consider the possibility of adopting or partnering with an existing SC2 team so that some of these problems could be avoided.
Unless it's for Deus Ex, in which case, I never asked for this.
On October 25 2011 03:07 SeaSwift wrote: This is just my own pondering, but I think that Blizzard is preparing to release an updated graphics BW - an "official" SC2BW, if you like. I remember seeing Starcraft: Phoenix on the estimated timeline sheet of Blizzard and thinking that it sounds likely - after all, how many more foreigner fans would it bring in, being able to watch BW without the crappy graphics? I expect them to keep the retarded AI etc the same, so that it doesn't alienate BW watchers.
Not really substantiated by evidence at all, just my hopes ^_^
well... it may not be official... but it already exists under the name "sc2bw" as a series of custom sc2 maps made to be like bw... everything from the stupid AI to the limited unit and building selection is working properly there but sadly the BW fans that would like it mostly hate sc2 already :/
On October 25 2011 03:11 PlosionCornu wrote: Razer is pretty much a big player in korea already, being one of the main sponsors for slayers. The specific choice of intel and nvidia (both slayers and blizzard partners) is pretty revealing too.
"baseless conjecture" Are these companies pushing some kind of agenda? I mean, every single piece of hardware comes from companies sponsoring sc2 (even a LG monitor instead of a samsung one..).
How many major international hardware companies AREN'T sponsoring SC2 in some way yet?
On October 25 2011 03:07 SeaSwift wrote: This is just my own pondering, but I think that Blizzard is preparing to release an updated graphics BW - an "official" SC2BW, if you like. I remember seeing Starcraft: Phoenix on the estimated timeline sheet of Blizzard and thinking that it sounds likely - after all, how many more foreigner fans would it bring in, being able to watch BW without the crappy graphics? I expect them to keep the retarded AI etc the same, so that it doesn't alienate BW watchers.
Not really substantiated by evidence at all, just my hopes ^_^
well... it may not be official... but it already exists under the name "sc2bw" as a series of custom sc2 maps made to be like bw... everything from the stupid AI to the limited unit and building selection is working properly there but sadly the BW fans that would like it mostly hate sc2 already :/
It's not quite as accurate as you make it sound. The unit sizes don't match up accurately with the scale of the terrain, and tricks like Chinese triangle and Patrol micro don't work.
My guess is - just a standard computer upgrading, in which people usually take the current best configuration, so that it can be viable for many years. One never knows what kind of other software may be useful in the future that requires such hardware. (eg: some kind of 3d Video conference for communication purposes etc)
kespa needs to die, i don't understand why can't Korean scene operate like the foreign scene. GSL is open to anyone, but its not enough to support the numbers of good players in Korea. Maybe blizzard should not give exclusive right to gomtv or anyone to broadcast sc2.
Why is this in the sc2 section? So what if KT Rolster got new computers? Its obvious that no Korea team in its right mind would switch over to sc2, when BW still far outweighs the money input, especially in Korea. I mean, Korean teams are looking to international sponsors in sc2, why would an entity switch to such a volatile market? That would easily be the stupidest business move by a esports team, to date. (even counting the MYM, SK Korean arms race controversy of WC3)
Lets look at this totally objectively, and ill just jot down some point form to see what a team would think about before switching.
- Currently Korean teams are massively under funded - There are very few Korean sponsors associated with SC2 - There is very few tournaments in Korea, and in turn very little prize money (prize is high, distribution is low) - SC2 is internationally based, therefore the costs of running a team rises, as flight, hotel, accommodation all needed to be taken into context, unlike BW, which is centralized in Korea. - There are already teams based on nostalgia to BW, this market is all but closed, Slayers is the most obvious, but oGs is another relevant team with a past in BW (Nada~~~) - SC2 tournament results are volatile because the game is easier than BW. In BW, the best player (or the player with the best strategy and execution) won, in sc2 there is the volatile PvP matchup, ZvZ Matchup, and the fact that mechanics are easier allowing for someone like HuK, IdrA, Stephano, all b teamers or worse in their past games, win championships.
I mean, they might switch if BW really is suffering over there, but lets be honest, sc2 in korea isnt a very friendly market.
I would just like to add that it's sad to call these specs anything special.
PC hardware companies should shower them with pre-built's just to get their brand out. Alienware is one good example that comes to mind, or just components in general.
I was hoping a little while ago that KesPA and S2CON would merge, creating one 16 team conference that had some teams playing BW only, some playing SC2 only, and some doing both. Maybe that's actually happening?
On October 25 2011 03:46 Longshank wrote: It does seem odd to buy a bunch of wide screen monitors for BW, especially when a SC2 PL has been hinted.
no it doesnt, it makes perfect sense to me, its because a sc2 PL has been hinted, they are preparing to create a sc2 team, and possibly some of the B-teamers would be switching over, i could see this logically from most of the korean sc:bw proteams to create a sc2 division if sc2PL is a go, and remember, they would know first
That's what he's saying.
He said it doesn't make any sense to buy Widescreen Monitors for Brood War.
ah, i can see that, but still just because you are buying new monitors doesnt mean that you are junking the old ones, they might still have some of those old crts around
I think the point he's trying to make is that it would be silly to buy Widescreens for their new computer if they're sticking to only playing Brood War, it would make much more sense to buy new computers, and keep their CRT monitors if it was just a routine "hardware upgrade"
This is just more evidence that SC2 is slowly taking hold in Korea.
yea, i realize that now, thx -tired T_T
i didnt think sc2 would take hold in korea this late, actually after its original flop in korea due to the low skill ceiling at the start and lack of mechanical skill needed at the start i was wondering if it ever would since bw is a more mechanically demanding game, as it seems though in sc2 at least with terran you are rewarded for playing fast and with good multitasking, which is probably why its starting to get a few bites, i wonder when we will see more protosses and zergs at the highest level though T_T blizz needs to fix the design flaws of Z and especially P
low skill ceiling? It's not as if there are 3 people constantly winning GSL, i mean if there was such a low skill ceiling how the fuck could anyone win gsl 3 times in a row? noob just rape them cause no skill
put it in context "low skill ceiling AT THE START"
On October 25 2011 07:33 Holcan wrote: Why is this in the sc2 section? So what if KT Rolster got new computers? Its obvious that no Korea team in its right mind would switch over to sc2, when BW still far outweighs the money input, especially in Korea. I mean, Korean teams are looking to international sponsors in sc2, why would an entity switch to such a volatile market? That would easily be the stupidest business move by a esports team, to date. (even counting the MYM, SK Korean arms race controversy of WC3)
Lets look at this totally objectively, and ill just jot down some point form to see what a team would think about before switching.
- Currently Korean teams are massively under funded - There are very few Korean sponsors associated with SC2 - There is very few tournaments in Korea, and in turn very little prize money (prize is high, distribution is low) - SC2 is internationally based, therefore the costs of running a team rises, as flight, hotel, accommodation all needed to be taken into context, unlike BW, which is centralized in Korea. - There are already teams based on nostalgia to BW, this market is all but closed, Slayers is the most obvious, but oGs is another relevant team with a past in BW (Nada~~~) - SC2 tournament results are volatile because the game is easier than BW. In BW, the best player (or the player with the best strategy and execution) won, in sc2 there is the volatile PvP matchup, ZvZ Matchup, and the fact that mechanics are easier allowing for someone like HuK, IdrA, Stephano, all b teamers or worse in their past games, win championships.
I mean, they might switch if BW really is suffering over there, but lets be honest, sc2 in korea isnt a very friendly market.
No one is seriously suggesting that they would be switching, at least not the A-teamers, that's just wishful thinking for funsies. The idea of them setting up a SC2 squad to compliment the BW team is however not so far fetched and not "the stupidest business move by a esports team, to date". LCD wide screens are obviously not meant to be used to play BW on, and with the possibility of a SC2 Proleague 9 or so months from now, it very concievable that they plan to participate in it.
I find it funny that people are wondering why this thread is in the SC2 section instead of the BW section.
I assume that if the thread was in the BW section, the tremendous amount of SC2 talk would make people wonder why it would be in the BW section instead of the SC2 section.
On October 25 2011 07:33 Holcan wrote: Why is this in the sc2 section? So what if KT Rolster got new computers? Its obvious that no Korea team in its right mind would switch over to sc2, when BW still far outweighs the money input, especially in Korea. I mean, Korean teams are looking to international sponsors in sc2, why would an entity switch to such a volatile market? That would easily be the stupidest business move by a esports team, to date. (even counting the MYM, SK Korean arms race controversy of WC3)
Lets look at this totally objectively, and ill just jot down some point form to see what a team would think about before switching.
- Currently Korean teams are massively under funded - There are very few Korean sponsors associated with SC2 - There is very few tournaments in Korea, and in turn very little prize money (prize is high, distribution is low) - SC2 is internationally based, therefore the costs of running a team rises, as flight, hotel, accommodation all needed to be taken into context, unlike BW, which is centralized in Korea. - There are already teams based on nostalgia to BW, this market is all but closed, Slayers is the most obvious, but oGs is another relevant team with a past in BW (Nada~~~) - SC2 tournament results are volatile because the game is easier than BW. In BW, the best player (or the player with the best strategy and execution) won, in sc2 there is the volatile PvP matchup, ZvZ Matchup, and the fact that mechanics are easier allowing for someone like HuK, IdrA, Stephano, all b teamers or worse in their past games, win championships.
I mean, they might switch if BW really is suffering over there, but lets be honest, sc2 in korea isnt a very friendly market.
Because Kespa is probably considering doing something with SC2 - see all the rumors about SC2 proleague, etc. They already recognize the sustained success of SC2 on an international level, so it doesn't feel too risky to me for BW teams to spawn new exploratory SC2 teams.
And cut out the flamebait about SC2 being easier than BW. SC2 is volatile mostly because it's new and still being patched for balance. It has little to do with the perceived difficulty of the game, since despite it being "easy", just like BW, it's evident that no one is even close to the skill ceiling.
On October 25 2011 03:07 SeaSwift wrote: This is just my own pondering, but I think that Blizzard is preparing to release an updated graphics BW - an "official" SC2BW, if you like. I remember seeing Starcraft: Phoenix on the estimated timeline sheet of Blizzard and thinking that it sounds likely - after all, how many more foreigner fans would it bring in, being able to watch BW without the crappy graphics? I expect them to keep the retarded AI etc the same, so that it doesn't alienate BW watchers.
Not really substantiated by evidence at all, just my hopes ^_^
This is exactly what I posted in the other thread! It must happen! In fact I have to keep myself from watching BW if i can find an english caster.......
<3 SC2 but... <3 BW Goes to teamliquid does creepy smiley face C:
On October 25 2011 03:07 SeaSwift wrote: This is just my own pondering, but I think that Blizzard is preparing to release an updated graphics BW - an "official" SC2BW, if you like. I remember seeing Starcraft: Phoenix on the estimated timeline sheet of Blizzard and thinking that it sounds likely - after all, how many more foreigner fans would it bring in, being able to watch BW without the crappy graphics? I expect them to keep the retarded AI etc the same, so that it doesn't alienate BW watchers.
Not really substantiated by evidence at all, just my hopes ^_^
Blizzard can't even be bothered to add clan support or anything into SC2, they aren't going to remake an entire game in a new engine. Generally speaking if your theory involves Blizzard doing anything it's wrong, because they prefer to do the bare minimum post launch
On October 25 2011 03:07 SeaSwift wrote: This is just my own pondering, but I think that Blizzard is preparing to release an updated graphics BW - an "official" SC2BW, if you like. I remember seeing Starcraft: Phoenix on the estimated timeline sheet of Blizzard and thinking that it sounds likely - after all, how many more foreigner fans would it bring in, being able to watch BW without the crappy graphics? I expect them to keep the retarded AI etc the same, so that it doesn't alienate BW watchers.
Not really substantiated by evidence at all, just my hopes ^_^
Blizzard can't even be bothered to add clan support or anything into SC2, they aren't going to remake an entire game in a new engine. Generally speaking if your theory involves Blizzard doing anything it's wrong, because they prefer to do the bare minimum post launch
Agreed. Plus I don't see blizzard wasting resources on updating bw cause there's no money in it for them and is just a waste of money for them. BW is only relevant in korea and that's it. There's no way a suit would green light a budget for an updated bw.
On October 25 2011 03:07 SeaSwift wrote: This is just my own pondering, but I think that Blizzard is preparing to release an updated graphics BW - an "official" SC2BW, if you like. I remember seeing Starcraft: Phoenix on the estimated timeline sheet of Blizzard and thinking that it sounds likely - after all, how many more foreigner fans would it bring in, being able to watch BW without the crappy graphics? I expect them to keep the retarded AI etc the same, so that it doesn't alienate BW watchers.
Not really substantiated by evidence at all, just my hopes ^_^
Blizzard can't even be bothered to add clan support or anything into SC2, they aren't going to remake an entire game in a new engine. Generally speaking if your theory involves Blizzard doing anything it's wrong, because they prefer to do the bare minimum post launch
I have a feeling that the "Starcraft: Phoenix" in the leaked timeline is just the codename for Blizzard's plans for the map marketplace/Arcade that they've been bragging about a lot. Blizzard did have plans on releasing the Marketplace/Arcade alongside HotS, and Phoenix's release on the leaked timeline does coincide with HotS. Considering how much Blizzard has been hyping its Marketplace/Arcade, it does seem to be enough of a major project to warrant a codename.
nvm, map marketplace was a separate item on the leaked timeline.
Nah, bulldozer tests included i7's against i5's OC'd and UnOc'd. i7's clocked consistently over i5's at all times at some pretty massive differences in power.
On October 25 2011 07:33 Holcan wrote: Why is this in the sc2 section? So what if KT Rolster got new computers? Its obvious that no Korea team in its right mind would switch over to sc2, when BW still far outweighs the money input, especially in Korea. I mean, Korean teams are looking to international sponsors in sc2, why would an entity switch to such a volatile market? That would easily be the stupidest business move by a esports team, to date. (even counting the MYM, SK Korean arms race controversy of WC3)
Lets look at this totally objectively, and ill just jot down some point form to see what a team would think about before switching.
- Currently Korean teams are massively under funded - There are very few Korean sponsors associated with SC2 - There is very few tournaments in Korea, and in turn very little prize money (prize is high, distribution is low) - SC2 is internationally based, therefore the costs of running a team rises, as flight, hotel, accommodation all needed to be taken into context, unlike BW, which is centralized in Korea. - There are already teams based on nostalgia to BW, this market is all but closed, Slayers is the most obvious, but oGs is another relevant team with a past in BW (Nada~~~) - SC2 tournament results are volatile because the game is easier than BW. In BW, the best player (or the player with the best strategy and execution) won, in sc2 there is the volatile PvP matchup, ZvZ Matchup, and the fact that mechanics are easier allowing for someone like HuK, IdrA, Stephano, all b teamers or worse in their past games, win championships.
I mean, they might switch if BW really is suffering over there, but lets be honest, sc2 in korea isnt a very friendly market.
Even if some of your points are good, you never ever watched wc3 did you ? (offtopic I know, but bashing with false information is stupid :>) OT: Why would they switch computer now ? Because sc2 is not a flop at all. There is much more money now, internationally ofc, than in broodwar, so this is a logical move and was expected since the beginning.
On October 25 2011 03:07 SeaSwift wrote: This is just my own pondering, but I think that Blizzard is preparing to release an updated graphics BW - an "official" SC2BW, if you like. I remember seeing Starcraft: Phoenix on the estimated timeline sheet of Blizzard and thinking that it sounds likely - after all, how many more foreigner fans would it bring in, being able to watch BW without the crappy graphics? I expect them to keep the retarded AI etc the same, so that it doesn't alienate BW watchers.
Not really substantiated by evidence at all, just my hopes ^_^
Blizzard can't even be bothered to add clan support or anything into SC2, they aren't going to remake an entire game in a new engine. Generally speaking if your theory involves Blizzard doing anything it's wrong, because they prefer to do the bare minimum post launch
I have a feeling that the "Starcraft: Phoenix" in the leaked timeline is just the codename for Blizzard's plans for the map marketplace/Arcade that they've been bragging about a lot. Blizzard did have plans on releasing the Marketplace/Arcade alongside HotS, and Phoenix's release on the leaked timeline does coincide with HotS. Considering how much Blizzard has been hyping its Marketplace/Arcade, it does seem to be enough of a major project to warrant a codename.
On the timeline there's a BNet Map Market & BNet 3rd Parties listed so yeah.
On October 25 2011 03:07 SeaSwift wrote: This is just my own pondering, but I think that Blizzard is preparing to release an updated graphics BW - an "official" SC2BW, if you like. I remember seeing Starcraft: Phoenix on the estimated timeline sheet of Blizzard and thinking that it sounds likely - after all, how many more foreigner fans would it bring in, being able to watch BW without the crappy graphics? I expect them to keep the retarded AI etc the same, so that it doesn't alienate BW watchers.
Not really substantiated by evidence at all, just my hopes ^_^
Blizzard can't even be bothered to add clan support or anything into SC2, they aren't going to remake an entire game in a new engine. Generally speaking if your theory involves Blizzard doing anything it's wrong, because they prefer to do the bare minimum post launch
I have a feeling that the "Starcraft: Phoenix" in the leaked timeline is just the codename for Blizzard's plans for the map marketplace/Arcade that they've been bragging about a lot. Blizzard did have plans on releasing the Marketplace/Arcade alongside HotS, and Phoenix's release on the leaked timeline does coincide with HotS. Considering how much Blizzard has been hyping its Marketplace/Arcade, it does seem to be enough of a major project to warrant a codename.
Wrong, the marketplace / arcade is listed separately without a codeword.
On October 25 2011 07:33 Holcan wrote: Why is this in the sc2 section? So what if KT Rolster got new computers? Its obvious that no Korea team in its right mind would switch over to sc2, when BW still far outweighs the money input, especially in Korea. I mean, Korean teams are looking to international sponsors in sc2, why would an entity switch to such a volatile market? That would easily be the stupidest business move by a esports team, to date. (even counting the MYM, SK Korean arms race controversy of WC3)
Lets look at this totally objectively, and ill just jot down some point form to see what a team would think about before switching.
- Currently Korean teams are massively under funded - There are very few Korean sponsors associated with SC2 - There is very few tournaments in Korea, and in turn very little prize money (prize is high, distribution is low) - SC2 is internationally based, therefore the costs of running a team rises, as flight, hotel, accommodation all needed to be taken into context, unlike BW, which is centralized in Korea. - There are already teams based on nostalgia to BW, this market is all but closed, Slayers is the most obvious, but oGs is another relevant team with a past in BW (Nada~~~) - SC2 tournament results are volatile because the game is easier than BW. In BW, the best player (or the player with the best strategy and execution) won, in sc2 there is the volatile PvP matchup, ZvZ Matchup, and the fact that mechanics are easier allowing for someone like HuK, IdrA, Stephano, all b teamers or worse in their past games, win championships.
I mean, they might switch if BW really is suffering over there, but lets be honest, sc2 in korea isnt a very friendly market.
Because Kespa is probably considering doing something with SC2 - see all the rumors about SC2 proleague, etc. They already recognize the sustained success of SC2 on an international level, so it doesn't feel too risky to me for BW teams to spawn new exploratory SC2 teams.
And cut out the flamebait about SC2 being easier than BW. SC2 is volatile mostly because it's new and still being patched for balance. It has little to do with the perceived difficulty of the game, since despite it being "easy", just like BW, it's evident that no one is even close to the skill ceiling.
And thats fine no one is close to the skill ceiling, no one was close to the skill ceiling in sc2. You cannot deny that someone like Stephano who was a mid tier wc3 player, or IdrA who couldnt break CJ Practice Squad, or HuK who was B+ would ever win a championship in their respective games, but here they are...winning..and its not because sc2 is so much harder other RTS games.
Its not flame bait, its the truth, and easier game means more volatile results, not volatile results mean an easier game. Also with Korean teams dying, how is it not risky to join a inflated market? Or are we just going to avoid the massive issues that many Korean sc2 teams have regarding money?
You can try to justify it one way or another, but the fact of that matter is, if sc2 wasn't as easy as it is, we wouldnt have a massive NA fanbase that supports it. As whether you like to admit it or not, but NA love easy games with shiny graphics. Hence why COD sells millions every release, and millions of bw nostalgia nerds grabbed sc2 the day of release. The realistic view is that SC2 is hands down easier than BW, and it takes a seriously lack in thinking, or experience, to not understand why there will never be a bonjwa in sc2, yet there were eras of bonjwa in BW.
On October 25 2011 07:33 Holcan wrote: Why is this in the sc2 section? So what if KT Rolster got new computers? Its obvious that no Korea team in its right mind would switch over to sc2, when BW still far outweighs the money input, especially in Korea. I mean, Korean teams are looking to international sponsors in sc2, why would an entity switch to such a volatile market? That would easily be the stupidest business move by a esports team, to date. (even counting the MYM, SK Korean arms race controversy of WC3)
Lets look at this totally objectively, and ill just jot down some point form to see what a team would think about before switching.
- Currently Korean teams are massively under funded - There are very few Korean sponsors associated with SC2 - There is very few tournaments in Korea, and in turn very little prize money (prize is high, distribution is low) - SC2 is internationally based, therefore the costs of running a team rises, as flight, hotel, accommodation all needed to be taken into context, unlike BW, which is centralized in Korea. - There are already teams based on nostalgia to BW, this market is all but closed, Slayers is the most obvious, but oGs is another relevant team with a past in BW (Nada~~~) - SC2 tournament results are volatile because the game is easier than BW. In BW, the best player (or the player with the best strategy and execution) won, in sc2 there is the volatile PvP matchup, ZvZ Matchup, and the fact that mechanics are easier allowing for someone like HuK, IdrA, Stephano, all b teamers or worse in their past games, win championships.
I mean, they might switch if BW really is suffering over there, but lets be honest, sc2 in korea isnt a very friendly market.
Even if some of your points are good, you never ever watched wc3 did you ? (offtopic I know, but bashing with false information is stupid :>) OT: Why would they switch computer now ? Because sc2 is not a flop at all. There is much more money now, internationally ofc, than in broodwar, so this is a logical move and was expected since the beginning.
Did you ever watch wc3? Because if you did you would probably recognize my name. I managed multiple leagues that Stephano played in, as well as followed the french scene, and Millenium very closely...Thanks for trying to call me out though, I can tell by your France flag that you think Stephano was a class A wc3 player, when in reality he was always behind ToD, even when ToD was retired. And was always behind demuslim, Xyligan, and even near the end of wc3, yAws and many other European human players.
Hell even on M he was behind the Koreans, by a massively huge margin.
There is a huge flaw in your logic, and it has already been pointed out. If it's so easy, why do we see the same people at the top of tournaments ? You lack in thinking. Pretty funny that you only talked about the players who showed consistency against koreans tho. You forget the millions of others gamers who tried and failed because it was too hard.
Edit: I did, and if Stephano was not at the top top, he was able to take off series of the best players in France, even tho he was only 14 and wasn't serious. Btw the last good show from tod was against thooo, and if you think that it was close, then you must have been playing a lot of 4v4.
On October 25 2011 08:44 Thurokiir wrote: Nah, bulldozer tests included i7's against i5's OC'd and UnOc'd. i7's clocked consistently over i5's at all times at some pretty massive differences in power.
On October 25 2011 08:57 Erasme wrote: There is a huge flaw in your logic, and it has already been pointed out. If it's so easy, why do we see the same people at the top of tournaments ? You lack in thinking. Pretty funny that you only talked about the players who showed consistency against koreans tho. You forget the millions of others gamers who tried and failed because it was too hard.
you fail to understand how good people actually are in BW. we DONT have people bonjwa-ing in sc2. we did in BW. a strong NA player could play flash 100 times and take less than 5 games. a strong NA player could play MVP 100 times and take 10+. that's the difference.
On October 25 2011 08:57 Erasme wrote: There is a huge flaw in your logic, and it has already been pointed out. If it's so easy, why do we see the same people at the top of tournaments ? You lack in thinking. Pretty funny that you only talked about the players who showed consistency against koreans tho. You forget the millions of others gamers who tried and failed because it was too hard.
you fail to understand how good people actually are in BW. we DONT have people bonjwa-ing in sc2. we did in BW. a strong NA player could play flash 100 times and take less than 5 games. a strong NA player could play MVP 100 times and take 10+. that's the difference.
I know how strong are bw players, as I follow both scenes. And I don't think we have bonjwa in sc2 lol. Btw MVP went 98/2 in NA so, yeah sure 10+. Maybe you need to backup your claims ? There is no chance that, lets say Incontrol could take more than 5games against MVP.
On October 25 2011 08:57 Erasme wrote: There is a huge flaw in your logic, and it has already been pointed out. If it's so easy, why do we see the same people at the top of tournaments ? You lack in thinking. Pretty funny that you only talked about the players who showed consistency against koreans tho. You forget the millions of others gamers who tried and failed because it was too hard.
you fail to understand how good people actually are in BW. we DONT have people bonjwa-ing in sc2. we did in BW. a strong NA player could play flash 100 times and take less than 5 games. a strong NA player could play MVP 100 times and take 10+. that's the difference.
Thats the difference between foreigner and Korean not the difference in skill cieling. I will agree that of course people are better at BW than they are at SC2 but foreigners being competitive has nothing to do with it.
On October 25 2011 03:07 SeaSwift wrote: This is just my own pondering, but I think that Blizzard is preparing to release an updated graphics BW - an "official" SC2BW, if you like. I remember seeing Starcraft: Phoenix on the estimated timeline sheet of Blizzard and thinking that it sounds likely - after all, how many more foreigner fans would it bring in, being able to watch BW without the crappy graphics? I expect them to keep the retarded AI etc the same, so that it doesn't alienate BW watchers.
Not really substantiated by evidence at all, just my hopes ^_^
It would make absolutely no sense for Blizzard to work on or release an updated version of BW when they're trying to promote SC2 worldwide.
On October 25 2011 03:07 SeaSwift wrote: This is just my own pondering, but I think that Blizzard is preparing to release an updated graphics BW - an "official" SC2BW, if you like. I remember seeing Starcraft: Phoenix on the estimated timeline sheet of Blizzard and thinking that it sounds likely - after all, how many more foreigner fans would it bring in, being able to watch BW without the crappy graphics? I expect them to keep the retarded AI etc the same, so that it doesn't alienate BW watchers.
Not really substantiated by evidence at all, just my hopes ^_^
It would make absolutely no sense for Blizzard to work on or release an updated version of BW when they're trying to promote SC2 worldwide.
It's built into sc2... it won't compete and if it does they won't care as it will still sell SC2 copies.
On October 25 2011 08:57 Erasme wrote: There is a huge flaw in your logic, and it has already been pointed out. If it's so easy, why do we see the same people at the top of tournaments ? You lack in thinking. Pretty funny that you only talked about the players who showed consistency against koreans tho. You forget the millions of others gamers who tried and failed because it was too hard.
you fail to understand how good people actually are in BW. we DONT have people bonjwa-ing in sc2. we did in BW. a strong NA player could play flash 100 times and take less than 5 games. a strong NA player could play MVP 100 times and take 10+. that's the difference.
I don't get it. Why do people always do this? Star2 and Star1 are different games, it's not like Star2 is Star1 lite. The mechanics are easier and simple, yes, and that is what kept foreigners down; not to mention Korea blew up in SC:BW and the whole nation pretty much developed together. In America you had some people playing competitively but the vast majority was doing UMS and casual play. Fast forward to Star2, foreigners are off to an even footing both on release dates and how many people were playing. Now you have many many strong players in every region. What does this do? It creates strong competition, foreigners constantly playing Koreans to learn how they play. If we had the same phenomenon in Star1, then we could've had a "foreigner bonjwa" because by playing with Koreans constantly you learn what they know and use it to better yourself constant.
So given all of this why is it that people say "oh the competition right now ain't shit, just wait till X comes over". Star2 is a different RTS than Star1 and with HotS on the way, it's going to be even more different. Just because one person is the best at one game doesn't mean they're suddenly the best in the whole genre. Moon and Grubby came from War3 and they didn't blow the scene up, they entered as players that were on top but not dominant. I know the difference of War3 -> Star2 is larger than Star1 -> Star2 but it's still worth noting.
On October 25 2011 08:44 Thurokiir wrote: Nah, bulldozer tests included i7's against i5's OC'd and UnOc'd. i7's clocked consistently over i5's at all times at some pretty massive differences in power.
i5-3500k comes out in... a few months...? and it's a die shrink with tri gates with +10-20% IPC and the 32nm ver is already 1.78x phenom ii and phenom ii > bulldozer... and the i7-3700k is only 77watt TDP vs the older 95watt TDP...
On October 25 2011 07:33 Holcan wrote: Why is this in the sc2 section? So what if KT Rolster got new computers? Its obvious that no Korea team in its right mind would switch over to sc2, when BW still far outweighs the money input, especially in Korea. I mean, Korean teams are looking to international sponsors in sc2, why would an entity switch to such a volatile market? That would easily be the stupidest business move by a esports team, to date. (even counting the MYM, SK Korean arms race controversy of WC3)
Lets look at this totally objectively, and ill just jot down some point form to see what a team would think about before switching.
- Currently Korean teams are massively under funded - There are very few Korean sponsors associated with SC2 - There is very few tournaments in Korea, and in turn very little prize money (prize is high, distribution is low) - SC2 is internationally based, therefore the costs of running a team rises, as flight, hotel, accommodation all needed to be taken into context, unlike BW, which is centralized in Korea. - There are already teams based on nostalgia to BW, this market is all but closed, Slayers is the most obvious, but oGs is another relevant team with a past in BW (Nada~~~) - SC2 tournament results are volatile because the game is easier than BW. In BW, the best player (or the player with the best strategy and execution) won, in sc2 there is the volatile PvP matchup, ZvZ Matchup, and the fact that mechanics are easier allowing for someone like HuK, IdrA, Stephano, all b teamers or worse in their past games, win championships.
I mean, they might switch if BW really is suffering over there, but lets be honest, sc2 in korea isnt a very friendly market.
Because Kespa is probably considering doing something with SC2 - see all the rumors about SC2 proleague, etc. They already recognize the sustained success of SC2 on an international level, so it doesn't feel too risky to me for BW teams to spawn new exploratory SC2 teams.
And cut out the flamebait about SC2 being easier than BW. SC2 is volatile mostly because it's new and still being patched for balance. It has little to do with the perceived difficulty of the game, since despite it being "easy", just like BW, it's evident that no one is even close to the skill ceiling.
And thats fine no one is close to the skill ceiling, no one was close to the skill ceiling in sc2. You cannot deny that someone like Stephano who was a mid tier wc3 player, or IdrA who couldnt break CJ Practice Squad, or HuK who was B+ would ever win a championship in their respective games, but here they are...winning..and its not because sc2 is so much harder other RTS games.
Its not flame bait, its the truth, and easier game means more volatile results, not volatile results mean an easier game. Also with Korean teams dying, how is it not risky to join a inflated market? Or are we just going to avoid the massive issues that many Korean sc2 teams have regarding money?
You can try to justify it one way or another, but the fact of that matter is, if sc2 wasn't as easy as it is, we wouldnt have a massive NA fanbase that supports it. As whether you like to admit it or not, but NA love easy games with shiny graphics. Hence why COD sells millions every release, and millions of bw nostalgia nerds grabbed sc2 the day of release. The realistic view is that SC2 is hands down easier than BW, and it takes a seriously lack in thinking, or experience, to not understand why there will never be a bonjwa in sc2, yet there were eras of bonjwa in BW.
On October 25 2011 07:33 Holcan wrote: Why is this in the sc2 section? So what if KT Rolster got new computers? Its obvious that no Korea team in its right mind would switch over to sc2, when BW still far outweighs the money input, especially in Korea. I mean, Korean teams are looking to international sponsors in sc2, why would an entity switch to such a volatile market? That would easily be the stupidest business move by a esports team, to date. (even counting the MYM, SK Korean arms race controversy of WC3)
Lets look at this totally objectively, and ill just jot down some point form to see what a team would think about before switching.
- Currently Korean teams are massively under funded - There are very few Korean sponsors associated with SC2 - There is very few tournaments in Korea, and in turn very little prize money (prize is high, distribution is low) - SC2 is internationally based, therefore the costs of running a team rises, as flight, hotel, accommodation all needed to be taken into context, unlike BW, which is centralized in Korea. - There are already teams based on nostalgia to BW, this market is all but closed, Slayers is the most obvious, but oGs is another relevant team with a past in BW (Nada~~~) - SC2 tournament results are volatile because the game is easier than BW. In BW, the best player (or the player with the best strategy and execution) won, in sc2 there is the volatile PvP matchup, ZvZ Matchup, and the fact that mechanics are easier allowing for someone like HuK, IdrA, Stephano, all b teamers or worse in their past games, win championships.
I mean, they might switch if BW really is suffering over there, but lets be honest, sc2 in korea isnt a very friendly market.
Even if some of your points are good, you never ever watched wc3 did you ? (offtopic I know, but bashing with false information is stupid :>) OT: Why would they switch computer now ? Because sc2 is not a flop at all. There is much more money now, internationally ofc, than in broodwar, so this is a logical move and was expected since the beginning.
Did you ever watch wc3? Because if you did you would probably recognize my name. I managed multiple leagues that Stephano played in, as well as followed the french scene, and Millenium very closely...Thanks for trying to call me out though, I can tell by your France flag that you think Stephano was a class A wc3 player, when in reality he was always behind ToD, even when ToD was retired. And was always behind demuslim, Xyligan, and even near the end of wc3, yAws and many other European human players.
Hell even on M he was behind the Koreans, by a massively huge margin.
All this is fine and dandy, but you've failed to explain how all this is even loosely connected to KT getting SC2 ready rigs. So what if the scene in volatile(I'd argue it's far less so than you make it out to be but this is not the place), there are evidently money to be made for the top players in the scene and there's a huge international following. For a BW that's looking to evolve and expand it's brand, putting together a SC2 squad to dabble in the new game seems to be a very reasonable decission.
Perhaps they see the potential in a KeSPA sanctioned SC2 Proleague or OSL, fueled by an enormous global hype and interest. Perhaps they see that this combo could potentially be very profitable in the future.
That you think SC2 is a shit game is completely irrelevant to this topic, atleast try to make a valid point.
On October 25 2011 08:57 Erasme wrote: There is a huge flaw in your logic, and it has already been pointed out. If it's so easy, why do we see the same people at the top of tournaments ? You lack in thinking. Pretty funny that you only talked about the players who showed consistency against koreans tho. You forget the millions of others gamers who tried and failed because it was too hard.
you fail to understand how good people actually are in BW. we DONT have people bonjwa-ing in sc2. we did in BW. a strong NA player could play flash 100 times and take less than 5 games. a strong NA player could play MVP 100 times and take 10+. that's the difference.
I don't get it. Why do people always do this? Star2 and Star1 are different games, it's not like Star2 is Star1 lite. The mechanics are easier and simple, yes, and that is what kept foreigners down; not to mention Korea blew up in SC:BW and the whole nation pretty much developed together. In America you had some people playing competitively but the vast majority was doing UMS and casual play. Fast forward to Star2, foreigners are off to an even footing both on release dates and how many people were playing. Now you have many many strong players in every region. What does this do? It creates strong competition, foreigners constantly playing Koreans to learn how they play. If we had the same phenomenon in Star1, then we could've had a "foreigner bonjwa" because by playing with Koreans constantly you learn what they know and use it to better yourself constant.
So given all of this why is it that people say "oh the competition right now ain't shit, just wait till X comes over". Star2 is a different RTS than Star1 and with HotS on the way, it's going to be even more different. Just because one person is the best at one game doesn't mean they're suddenly the best in the whole genre. Moon and Grubby came from War3 and they didn't blow the scene up, they entered as players that were on top but not dominant. I know the difference of War3 -> Star2 is larger than Star1 -> Star2 but it's still worth noting.
First of all, Grubby and Moon both compete in wc3 STILL, so practicing two games will ultimately hinder your results in the game you care less about, and has more volatile results. Also Moon places 2nd in pretty much every LAN he attends in sc2, except for MLG Columbus, please explain how that isn't dominate? Also didn't he get into GSL very quickly, while still playing Wc3? Only dropping out of it once he achieved his dream of attending WCG representing Korea? I'm sorry, but no. Also the difference from wc3-> sc2 is closer than bw-> wc3, hence why almost every foreign professional is an ex-wc3 player, at least in terms of general talent, as far as meta game goes, of course sc1 players dominate.
Also for your original argument, its pretty much gone out the window, since well go to the Korean ladder and play, and two weeks later you'll be facing those strats on NA, while the Koreans have moved on. Their meta game defines the current meta game of sc2, the fact the game is easier allows the NA players to compete, but you're truly viewing this through painted glass if you feel that IdrA, HuK, or the countless other players whom developed "skills" could hack it in BW in anything past a practice squad. The fact of the matter is, the simplicity of the game, and its mechanics, allowed those players to compete. Please note ive never said this was a bad thing, RTS needed to be dumbed down for the international fan base, now that it is, my favourite facet of esports can move forward.
On October 25 2011 07:33 Holcan wrote: Why is this in the sc2 section? So what if KT Rolster got new computers? Its obvious that no Korea team in its right mind would switch over to sc2, when BW still far outweighs the money input, especially in Korea. I mean, Korean teams are looking to international sponsors in sc2, why would an entity switch to such a volatile market? That would easily be the stupidest business move by a esports team, to date. (even counting the MYM, SK Korean arms race controversy of WC3)
Lets look at this totally objectively, and ill just jot down some point form to see what a team would think about before switching.
- Currently Korean teams are massively under funded - There are very few Korean sponsors associated with SC2 - There is very few tournaments in Korea, and in turn very little prize money (prize is high, distribution is low) - SC2 is internationally based, therefore the costs of running a team rises, as flight, hotel, accommodation all needed to be taken into context, unlike BW, which is centralized in Korea. - There are already teams based on nostalgia to BW, this market is all but closed, Slayers is the most obvious, but oGs is another relevant team with a past in BW (Nada~~~) - SC2 tournament results are volatile because the game is easier than BW. In BW, the best player (or the player with the best strategy and execution) won, in sc2 there is the volatile PvP matchup, ZvZ Matchup, and the fact that mechanics are easier allowing for someone like HuK, IdrA, Stephano, all b teamers or worse in their past games, win championships.
I mean, they might switch if BW really is suffering over there, but lets be honest, sc2 in korea isnt a very friendly market.
Because Kespa is probably considering doing something with SC2 - see all the rumors about SC2 proleague, etc. They already recognize the sustained success of SC2 on an international level, so it doesn't feel too risky to me for BW teams to spawn new exploratory SC2 teams.
And cut out the flamebait about SC2 being easier than BW. SC2 is volatile mostly because it's new and still being patched for balance. It has little to do with the perceived difficulty of the game, since despite it being "easy", just like BW, it's evident that no one is even close to the skill ceiling.
And thats fine no one is close to the skill ceiling, no one was close to the skill ceiling in sc2. You cannot deny that someone like Stephano who was a mid tier wc3 player, or IdrA who couldnt break CJ Practice Squad, or HuK who was B+ would ever win a championship in their respective games, but here they are...winning..and its not because sc2 is so much harder other RTS games.
Its not flame bait, its the truth, and easier game means more volatile results, not volatile results mean an easier game. Also with Korean teams dying, how is it not risky to join a inflated market? Or are we just going to avoid the massive issues that many Korean sc2 teams have regarding money?
You can try to justify it one way or another, but the fact of that matter is, if sc2 wasn't as easy as it is, we wouldnt have a massive NA fanbase that supports it. As whether you like to admit it or not, but NA love easy games with shiny graphics. Hence why COD sells millions every release, and millions of bw nostalgia nerds grabbed sc2 the day of release. The realistic view is that SC2 is hands down easier than BW, and it takes a seriously lack in thinking, or experience, to not understand why there will never be a bonjwa in sc2, yet there were eras of bonjwa in BW.
On October 25 2011 08:45 Erasme wrote:
On October 25 2011 07:33 Holcan wrote: Why is this in the sc2 section? So what if KT Rolster got new computers? Its obvious that no Korea team in its right mind would switch over to sc2, when BW still far outweighs the money input, especially in Korea. I mean, Korean teams are looking to international sponsors in sc2, why would an entity switch to such a volatile market? That would easily be the stupidest business move by a esports team, to date. (even counting the MYM, SK Korean arms race controversy of WC3)
Lets look at this totally objectively, and ill just jot down some point form to see what a team would think about before switching.
- Currently Korean teams are massively under funded - There are very few Korean sponsors associated with SC2 - There is very few tournaments in Korea, and in turn very little prize money (prize is high, distribution is low) - SC2 is internationally based, therefore the costs of running a team rises, as flight, hotel, accommodation all needed to be taken into context, unlike BW, which is centralized in Korea. - There are already teams based on nostalgia to BW, this market is all but closed, Slayers is the most obvious, but oGs is another relevant team with a past in BW (Nada~~~) - SC2 tournament results are volatile because the game is easier than BW. In BW, the best player (or the player with the best strategy and execution) won, in sc2 there is the volatile PvP matchup, ZvZ Matchup, and the fact that mechanics are easier allowing for someone like HuK, IdrA, Stephano, all b teamers or worse in their past games, win championships.
I mean, they might switch if BW really is suffering over there, but lets be honest, sc2 in korea isnt a very friendly market.
Even if some of your points are good, you never ever watched wc3 did you ? (offtopic I know, but bashing with false information is stupid :>) OT: Why would they switch computer now ? Because sc2 is not a flop at all. There is much more money now, internationally ofc, than in broodwar, so this is a logical move and was expected since the beginning.
Did you ever watch wc3? Because if you did you would probably recognize my name. I managed multiple leagues that Stephano played in, as well as followed the french scene, and Millenium very closely...Thanks for trying to call me out though, I can tell by your France flag that you think Stephano was a class A wc3 player, when in reality he was always behind ToD, even when ToD was retired. And was always behind demuslim, Xyligan, and even near the end of wc3, yAws and many other European human players.
Hell even on M he was behind the Koreans, by a massively huge margin.
All this is fine and dandy, but you've failed to explain how all this is even loosely connected to KT getting SC2 ready rigs. So what if the scene in volatile(I'd argue it's far less so than you make it out to be but this is not the place), there are evidently money to be made for the top players in the scene and there's a huge international following. For a BW that's looking to evolve and expand it's brand, putting together a SC2 squad to dabble in the new game seems to be a very reasonable decission.
Perhaps they see the potential in a KeSPA sanctioned SC2 Proleague or OSL, fueled by an enormous global hype and interest. Perhaps they see that this combo could potentially be very profitable in the future.
That you think SC2 is a shit game is completely irrelevant to this topic, atleast try to make a valid point.
The fact you contort me thinking sc2 is easy, to sc2 being shit, means that your obvious bias to replying to me is obvious beyond belief, but ill humour you anyways.
Why, when the Korean scene has no money, arent gaining grounds on sponsors, and are having a hard time keeping teams intact, would it be a good move to venture into an area that has limited/international only exposure, and very little kick back in terms of prize winning. International tournaments aside from brand recognition arent worth to travel to, and GSL is such a hard tournament to enter, even top (sc2) Koreans complain about the set-up.
Now sure, there are other rumours being pushed forward about Kespa Pro League etc etc, but until they substantiate as something real, i'll treat them as they are, rumours, and use evidence to prove my point, rather than guess work.
Why is this in the SC2 section? KT bought some new machines, so what? When they're not playing BW they can play some other games and watch HD content. They been doing very well in proleague it's about time the players were rewarded with an upgraded practice/entertainment environment.
I think the biggest tell about this is the widescreen monitors. There's a huge difference between 4:3 and 16: 9. People who play on 4:3 won't ever be able to play on 16: 9.
On October 25 2011 09:54 Anomarad wrote: Why is this in the SC2 section? KT bought some new machines, so what? When they're not playing BW they can play some other games and watch HD content. They been doing very well in proleague it's about time the players were rewarded with an upgraded practice/entertainment environment.
If this would be in the BW section 90% of the regular BW section user would whine about the SC2 fanboys that are thinking they're preparing for SC2 no matter if it's true or not. Just another shitfest if you will.
Also for your original argument, its pretty much gone out the window, since well go to the Korean ladder and play, and two weeks later you'll be facing those strats on NA, while the Koreans have moved on. Their meta game defines the current meta game of sc2, the fact the game is easier allows the NA players to compete, but you're truly viewing this through painted glass if you feel that IdrA, HuK, or the countless other players whom developed "skills" could hack it in BW in anything past a practice squad. The fact of the matter is, the simplicity of the game, and its mechanics, allowed those players to compete. Please note ive never said this was a bad thing, RTS needed to be dumbed down for the international fan base, now that it is, my favourite facet of esports can move forward.
Uh, or how about the fact that all the best players stayed in BW because the money is better if you're well-established? Foreign SC2 players are essentially playing Korean B-teamers, so of course you would expect a bit more volatility in the results because foreigners aren't completely incompetent. And, yet, foreigners still get dominated for the most part. There isn't even a single foreigner in GSL code S. Edit: sorry forgot about Huk.
Also for your original argument, its pretty much gone out the window, since well go to the Korean ladder and play, and two weeks later you'll be facing those strats on NA, while the Koreans have moved on. Their meta game defines the current meta game of sc2, the fact the game is easier allows the NA players to compete, but you're truly viewing this through painted glass if you feel that IdrA, HuK, or the countless other players whom developed "skills" could hack it in BW in anything past a practice squad. The fact of the matter is, the simplicity of the game, and its mechanics, allowed those players to compete. Please note ive never said this was a bad thing, RTS needed to be dumbed down for the international fan base, now that it is, my favourite facet of esports can move forward.
Uh, or how about the fact that all the best players stayed in BW because the money is better if you're well-established? Foreign SC2 players are essentially playing Korean B-teamers, so of course you would expect a bit more volatility in the results because foreigners aren't completely incompetent. And, yet, foreigners still get dominated for the most part. There isn't even a single foreigner in GSL code S.
No.
Also the first half of your first sentence is unrelated to the rest of it.
On October 25 2011 07:33 Holcan wrote: Why is this in the sc2 section? So what if KT Rolster got new computers? Its obvious that no Korea team in its right mind would switch over to sc2, when BW still far outweighs the money input, especially in Korea. I mean, Korean teams are looking to international sponsors in sc2, why would an entity switch to such a volatile market? That would easily be the stupidest business move by a esports team, to date. (even counting the MYM, SK Korean arms race controversy of WC3)
Lets look at this totally objectively, and ill just jot down some point form to see what a team would think about before switching.
- Currently Korean teams are massively under funded - There are very few Korean sponsors associated with SC2 - There is very few tournaments in Korea, and in turn very little prize money (prize is high, distribution is low) - SC2 is internationally based, therefore the costs of running a team rises, as flight, hotel, accommodation all needed to be taken into context, unlike BW, which is centralized in Korea. - There are already teams based on nostalgia to BW, this market is all but closed, Slayers is the most obvious, but oGs is another relevant team with a past in BW (Nada~~~) - SC2 tournament results are volatile because the game is easier than BW. In BW, the best player (or the player with the best strategy and execution) won, in sc2 there is the volatile PvP matchup, ZvZ Matchup, and the fact that mechanics are easier allowing for someone like HuK, IdrA, Stephano, all b teamers or worse in their past games, win championships.
I mean, they might switch if BW really is suffering over there, but lets be honest, sc2 in korea isnt a very friendly market.
Because Kespa is probably considering doing something with SC2 - see all the rumors about SC2 proleague, etc. They already recognize the sustained success of SC2 on an international level, so it doesn't feel too risky to me for BW teams to spawn new exploratory SC2 teams.
And cut out the flamebait about SC2 being easier than BW. SC2 is volatile mostly because it's new and still being patched for balance. It has little to do with the perceived difficulty of the game, since despite it being "easy", just like BW, it's evident that no one is even close to the skill ceiling.
And thats fine no one is close to the skill ceiling, no one was close to the skill ceiling in sc2. You cannot deny that someone like Stephano who was a mid tier wc3 player, or IdrA who couldnt break CJ Practice Squad, or HuK who was B+ would ever win a championship in their respective games, but here they are...winning..and its not because sc2 is so much harder other RTS games.
Its not flame bait, its the truth, and easier game means more volatile results, not volatile results mean an easier game. Also with Korean teams dying, how is it not risky to join a inflated market? Or are we just going to avoid the massive issues that many Korean sc2 teams have regarding money?
You can try to justify it one way or another, but the fact of that matter is, if sc2 wasn't as easy as it is, we wouldnt have a massive NA fanbase that supports it. As whether you like to admit it or not, but NA love easy games with shiny graphics. Hence why COD sells millions every release, and millions of bw nostalgia nerds grabbed sc2 the day of release. The realistic view is that SC2 is hands down easier than BW, and it takes a seriously lack in thinking, or experience, to not understand why there will never be a bonjwa in sc2, yet there were eras of bonjwa in BW.
On October 25 2011 08:45 Erasme wrote:
On October 25 2011 07:33 Holcan wrote: Why is this in the sc2 section? So what if KT Rolster got new computers? Its obvious that no Korea team in its right mind would switch over to sc2, when BW still far outweighs the money input, especially in Korea. I mean, Korean teams are looking to international sponsors in sc2, why would an entity switch to such a volatile market? That would easily be the stupidest business move by a esports team, to date. (even counting the MYM, SK Korean arms race controversy of WC3)
Lets look at this totally objectively, and ill just jot down some point form to see what a team would think about before switching.
- Currently Korean teams are massively under funded - There are very few Korean sponsors associated with SC2 - There is very few tournaments in Korea, and in turn very little prize money (prize is high, distribution is low) - SC2 is internationally based, therefore the costs of running a team rises, as flight, hotel, accommodation all needed to be taken into context, unlike BW, which is centralized in Korea. - There are already teams based on nostalgia to BW, this market is all but closed, Slayers is the most obvious, but oGs is another relevant team with a past in BW (Nada~~~) - SC2 tournament results are volatile because the game is easier than BW. In BW, the best player (or the player with the best strategy and execution) won, in sc2 there is the volatile PvP matchup, ZvZ Matchup, and the fact that mechanics are easier allowing for someone like HuK, IdrA, Stephano, all b teamers or worse in their past games, win championships.
I mean, they might switch if BW really is suffering over there, but lets be honest, sc2 in korea isnt a very friendly market.
Even if some of your points are good, you never ever watched wc3 did you ? (offtopic I know, but bashing with false information is stupid :>) OT: Why would they switch computer now ? Because sc2 is not a flop at all. There is much more money now, internationally ofc, than in broodwar, so this is a logical move and was expected since the beginning.
Did you ever watch wc3? Because if you did you would probably recognize my name. I managed multiple leagues that Stephano played in, as well as followed the french scene, and Millenium very closely...Thanks for trying to call me out though, I can tell by your France flag that you think Stephano was a class A wc3 player, when in reality he was always behind ToD, even when ToD was retired. And was always behind demuslim, Xyligan, and even near the end of wc3, yAws and many other European human players.
Hell even on M he was behind the Koreans, by a massively huge margin.
All this is fine and dandy, but you've failed to explain how all this is even loosely connected to KT getting SC2 ready rigs. So what if the scene in volatile(I'd argue it's far less so than you make it out to be but this is not the place), there are evidently money to be made for the top players in the scene and there's a huge international following. For a BW that's looking to evolve and expand it's brand, putting together a SC2 squad to dabble in the new game seems to be a very reasonable decission.
Perhaps they see the potential in a KeSPA sanctioned SC2 Proleague or OSL, fueled by an enormous global hype and interest. Perhaps they see that this combo could potentially be very profitable in the future.
That you think SC2 is a shit game is completely irrelevant to this topic, atleast try to make a valid point.
The fact you contort me thinking sc2 is easy, to sc2 being shit, means that your obvious bias to replying to me is obvious beyond belief, but ill humour you anyways.
Why, when the Korean scene has no money, arent gaining grounds on sponsors, and are having a hard time keeping teams intact, would it be a good move to venture into an area that has limited/international only exposure, and very little kick back in terms of prize winning. International tournaments aside from brand recognition arent worth to travel to, and GSL is such a hard tournament to enter, even top (sc2) Koreans complain about the set-up.
Now sure, there are other rumours being pushed forward about Kespa Pro League etc etc, but until they substantiate as something real, i'll treat them as they are, rumours, and use evidence to prove my point, rather than guess work.
Well then, you're obviously in the wrong thread because guess work is the very essence of this thread. It's about more or less educated guesses what these SC2 friendly rigs will be used for. There are other threads for you if you wish to discuss things based on evidence but you'll find none of that here.
Also for your original argument, its pretty much gone out the window, since well go to the Korean ladder and play, and two weeks later you'll be facing those strats on NA, while the Koreans have moved on. Their meta game defines the current meta game of sc2, the fact the game is easier allows the NA players to compete, but you're truly viewing this through painted glass if you feel that IdrA, HuK, or the countless other players whom developed "skills" could hack it in BW in anything past a practice squad. The fact of the matter is, the simplicity of the game, and its mechanics, allowed those players to compete. Please note ive never said this was a bad thing, RTS needed to be dumbed down for the international fan base, now that it is, my favourite facet of esports can move forward.
Uh, or how about the fact that all the best players stayed in BW because the money is better if you're well-established? Foreign SC2 players are essentially playing Korean B-teamers, so of course you would expect a bit more volatility in the results because foreigners aren't completely incompetent. And, yet, foreigners still get dominated for the most part. There isn't even a single foreigner in GSL code S.
HuK. Since when are Bomber and MKP the B-Teamers? Alive, Polt, MC.. these are all big name players that foreigners beat. At Blizzcon NaNiwa took a game off Nestea, Select took a game off MVP.
Also for your original argument, its pretty much gone out the window, since well go to the Korean ladder and play, and two weeks later you'll be facing those strats on NA, while the Koreans have moved on. Their meta game defines the current meta game of sc2, the fact the game is easier allows the NA players to compete, but you're truly viewing this through painted glass if you feel that IdrA, HuK, or the countless other players whom developed "skills" could hack it in BW in anything past a practice squad. The fact of the matter is, the simplicity of the game, and its mechanics, allowed those players to compete. Please note ive never said this was a bad thing, RTS needed to be dumbed down for the international fan base, now that it is, my favourite facet of esports can move forward.
Uh, or how about the fact that all the best players stayed in BW because the money is better if you're well-established? Foreign SC2 players are essentially playing Korean B-teamers, so of course you would expect a bit more volatility in the results because foreigners aren't completely incompetent. And, yet, foreigners still get dominated for the most part. There isn't even a single foreigner in GSL code S.
ROFL.
I thought that this would be a terrible idea because they wouldn't be able to get used to the screens that are being used at tournaments.
On October 25 2011 08:57 Erasme wrote: There is a huge flaw in your logic, and it has already been pointed out. If it's so easy, why do we see the same people at the top of tournaments ? You lack in thinking. Pretty funny that you only talked about the players who showed consistency against koreans tho. You forget the millions of others gamers who tried and failed because it was too hard.
you fail to understand how good people actually are in BW. we DONT have people bonjwa-ing in sc2. we did in BW. a strong NA player could play flash 100 times and take less than 5 games. a strong NA player could play MVP 100 times and take 10+. that's the difference.
I don't get it. Why do people always do this? Star2 and Star1 are different games, it's not like Star2 is Star1 lite. The mechanics are easier and simple, yes, and that is what kept foreigners down; not to mention Korea blew up in SC:BW and the whole nation pretty much developed together. In America you had some people playing competitively but the vast majority was doing UMS and casual play. Fast forward to Star2, foreigners are off to an even footing both on release dates and how many people were playing. Now you have many many strong players in every region. What does this do? It creates strong competition, foreigners constantly playing Koreans to learn how they play. If we had the same phenomenon in Star1, then we could've had a "foreigner bonjwa" because by playing with Koreans constantly you learn what they know and use it to better yourself constant.
So given all of this why is it that people say "oh the competition right now ain't shit, just wait till X comes over". Star2 is a different RTS than Star1 and with HotS on the way, it's going to be even more different. Just because one person is the best at one game doesn't mean they're suddenly the best in the whole genre. Moon and Grubby came from War3 and they didn't blow the scene up, they entered as players that were on top but not dominant. I know the difference of War3 -> Star2 is larger than Star1 -> Star2 but it's still worth noting.
First of all, Grubby and Moon both compete in wc3 STILL, so practicing two games will ultimately hinder your results in the game you care less about, and has more volatile results. Also Moon places 2nd in pretty much every LAN he attends in sc2, except for MLG Columbus, please explain how that isn't dominate? Also didn't he get into GSL very quickly, while still playing Wc3? Only dropping out of it once he achieved his dream of attending WCG representing Korea? I'm sorry, but no. Also the difference from wc3-> sc2 is closer than bw-> wc3, hence why almost every foreign professional is an ex-wc3 player, at least in terms of general talent, as far as meta game goes, of course sc1 players dominate.
Also for your original argument, its pretty much gone out the window, since well go to the Korean ladder and play, and two weeks later you'll be facing those strats on NA, while the Koreans have moved on. Their meta game defines the current meta game of sc2, the fact the game is easier allows the NA players to compete, but you're truly viewing this through painted glass if you feel that IdrA, HuK, or the countless other players whom developed "skills" could hack it in BW in anything past a practice squad. The fact of the matter is, the simplicity of the game, and its mechanics, allowed those players to compete. Please note ive never said this was a bad thing, RTS needed to be dumbed down for the international fan base, now that it is, my favourite facet of esports can move forward.
Grubby doesn't practice WC3 since switching to SC2. Maybe you're thinking of Lyn?
For just sc2 it's a dumb configuration. Maybe they want to get "future safe".
Sc2 is single threaded and 32 bit which means 8 GB ram will never ever be used, sc2 won't even use 2 gb ram. In addition, Sc2 doesn't Anti Aliasing or huge textures, so the high end graphics card won't really be used either. What sc2 uses though, is the processor. And since it's single threaded, more than 2 CPU cores won't do anything for sc2 performance.
They should have skipped some of the ram and graphics card and got i7 processors.
The most interesting thing about this is the monitors. BW team houses have always used CRTs because the actual OSL/MSL/PL setups used CRTs (for good reason when it comes to playing BW). If these setups are for Brood War-playing KT players, then they are putting themselves at a pretty big disadvantage, which seems very odd when it comes to the BW scene... The other thing could be that all BW tournaments are switching to LCD, which technically is inevitable given the lack of CRT production these days. Someone mentioned OGN — is there anything concrete about them using their new SC2 setups for Brood War?
Also interesting is the mouse. Brood War being locked at 640x480 means you only need a 400 dpi mouse (hence the popularity of the Mini Optical). I don't think they'd switch for no reason. Is it actually confirmed that BW players are using these new PCs?
Also for your original argument, its pretty much gone out the window, since well go to the Korean ladder and play, and two weeks later you'll be facing those strats on NA, while the Koreans have moved on. Their meta game defines the current meta game of sc2, the fact the game is easier allows the NA players to compete, but you're truly viewing this through painted glass if you feel that IdrA, HuK, or the countless other players whom developed "skills" could hack it in BW in anything past a practice squad. The fact of the matter is, the simplicity of the game, and its mechanics, allowed those players to compete. Please note ive never said this was a bad thing, RTS needed to be dumbed down for the international fan base, now that it is, my favourite facet of esports can move forward.
Uh, or how about the fact that all the best players stayed in BW because the money is better if you're well-established? Foreign SC2 players are essentially playing Korean B-teamers, so of course you would expect a bit more volatility in the results because foreigners aren't completely incompetent. And, yet, foreigners still get dominated for the most part. There isn't even a single foreigner in GSL code S.
HuK. As for the rest of your point, it should be clear to anyone that SC:BW != SC2. There is no programer who has been able to switch and instantly dominate. ForGG has been playing for months; July, NaDa, and Boxer joined in when the game was still growing. YellOw had a really hard time transferring over. Even MVP didn't automatically win when he switched because instead of this inherent rape everyone expects from BW A-teamers, he just practices hard and plays a whole bunch. If the BW pros were to switch to SC2 there is nothing to indicate how well they would do other than their practice and dedication. What people are insinuating right now is that someone like Flash could pick up the game right now with no prior practice and decimate anybody, which is just blind fanboyism.
I agree with everything you say. SC2 and BW are very different games, so going from BW to SC2 will require a lot of practice to get a perfect understanding of the metagame. But they both generally require the same set of skills. I believe BW A-teamers generally have a higher level of inherent skill, so if they moved to SC2, they would probably find a lot of success, like MVP has found after enough practice.
My basic point is that the current top SC2 players have less inherent skill than the top BW players, which is a much better explanation for the relative success of foreign SC2 players. One can't conclude anything about the "easiness" of the game.
On October 25 2011 11:12 VoirDire wrote: For just sc2 it's a dumb configuration. Maybe they want to get "future safe".
Sc2 is single threaded and 32 bit which means 8 GB ram will never ever be used, sc2 won't even use 2 gb ram. In addition, Sc2 doesn't Anti Aliasing or huge textures, so the high end graphics card won't really be used either. What sc2 uses though, is the processor. And since it's single threaded, more than 2 CPU cores won't do anything for sc2 performance.
They should have skipped some of the ram and graphics card and got i7 processors.
SC2 uses 2 cores but its third and fourth core optimization could use some work. Also you can apply anti aliasing to SC2 through drivers EZPZ.
Also i7 processors are inferior to i5 2500k for SC2, I don't know why you are bringing it up. It only makes sense for people who are really into streaming, which i doubt the entire team is.
Also for your original argument, its pretty much gone out the window, since well go to the Korean ladder and play, and two weeks later you'll be facing those strats on NA, while the Koreans have moved on. Their meta game defines the current meta game of sc2, the fact the game is easier allows the NA players to compete, but you're truly viewing this through painted glass if you feel that IdrA, HuK, or the countless other players whom developed "skills" could hack it in BW in anything past a practice squad. The fact of the matter is, the simplicity of the game, and its mechanics, allowed those players to compete. Please note ive never said this was a bad thing, RTS needed to be dumbed down for the international fan base, now that it is, my favourite facet of esports can move forward.
Uh, or how about the fact that all the best players stayed in BW because the money is better if you're well-established? Foreign SC2 players are essentially playing Korean B-teamers, so of course you would expect a bit more volatility in the results because foreigners aren't completely incompetent. And, yet, foreigners still get dominated for the most part. There isn't even a single foreigner in GSL code S.
HuK. Since when are Bomber and MKP the B-Teamers? Alive, Polt, MC.. these are all big name players that foreigners beat. At Blizzcon NaNiwa took a game off Nestea, Select took a game off MVP.
They aren't B-Teamers, but if they played BW, that's probably the highest they would expect. Holcan's silly point is that foreigners finding success in SC2 when they couldn't find success in BW is evidence that SC2 is easier. My argument is that it's only easier in the sense that the current competition is not as inherently skilled as the top BW players.
Also for your original argument, its pretty much gone out the window, since well go to the Korean ladder and play, and two weeks later you'll be facing those strats on NA, while the Koreans have moved on. Their meta game defines the current meta game of sc2, the fact the game is easier allows the NA players to compete, but you're truly viewing this through painted glass if you feel that IdrA, HuK, or the countless other players whom developed "skills" could hack it in BW in anything past a practice squad. The fact of the matter is, the simplicity of the game, and its mechanics, allowed those players to compete. Please note ive never said this was a bad thing, RTS needed to be dumbed down for the international fan base, now that it is, my favourite facet of esports can move forward.
Uh, or how about the fact that all the best players stayed in BW because the money is better if you're well-established? Foreign SC2 players are essentially playing Korean B-teamers, so of course you would expect a bit more volatility in the results because foreigners aren't completely incompetent. And, yet, foreigners still get dominated for the most part. There isn't even a single foreigner in GSL code S.
HuK. As for the rest of your point, it should be clear to anyone that SC:BW != SC2. There is no programer who has been able to switch and instantly dominate. ForGG has been playing for months; July, NaDa, and Boxer joined in when the game was still growing. YellOw had a really hard time transferring over. Even MVP didn't automatically win when he switched because instead of this inherent rape everyone expects from BW A-teamers, he just practices hard and plays a whole bunch. If the BW pros were to switch to SC2 there is nothing to indicate how well they would do other than their practice and dedication. What people are insinuating right now is that someone like Flash could pick up the game right now with no prior practice and decimate anybody, which is just blind fanboyism.
I agree with everything you say. SC2 and BW are very different games, so going from BW to SC2 will require a lot of practice to get a perfect understanding of the metagame. But they both generally require the same set of skills. I believe BW A-teamers generally have a higher level of inherent skill, so if they moved to SC2, they would probably find a lot of success, like MVP has found after enough practice.
My basic point is that the current top SC2 players have less inherent skill than the top BW players, which is a much better explanation for the relative success of foreign SC2 players. One can't conclude anything about the "easiness" of the game.
Yes, through comparative measure it is quite easy to tell the challenge of a game. Especially dealing with the skill cap, and mechanics, which are quite obvious when comparing a new streamlined game compared to an outdated game.
Lets look at a quote from everyones favourite team own, Alex "chibsquad" Garfield from when 1.6 teams switched to source.
#20:
No, actually, that's not the case at all. When a game is made easier overall, players do not benefit equally. When a game is made easier overall, players at a lower skill level benefit much more from the change than players at a higher skill level.
Example:
If I were playing Kobe Bryant in horse, shooting jump shots, I would get absolutely destroyed. But let's say we played again, on a basketball hoop with the rim size doubled. Would I still lose? Probably. But I wouldn't lose by as much, because Kobe wouldn't really benefit from the larger rim size, since he could already hit his shots with the smaller rim size. I, on the other hand, would benefit greatly from the larger rim size, since I'm not as good at shooting baskets. So, would this change make shooting hoops easier for everyone? Yes, absolutely. That's not disputed. The relevant question is, who would benefit more from the change? Obviously, I (the lower skilled player) would benefit more, and the game would be much closer.
Example 2:
If I were playing DDR (random example, I know, but it's a sound analogy) on "expert" mode against someone who was really good, and who had already mastered all of the songs at that difficulty, I would get destroyed, because I haven't played that much DDR (although I do have some rhythm :p). But what would happen if we switched the difficulty level down to "medium"? Obviously, the competition would be much closer, even though it would be easier for everyone. This is because a player who's already mastered "expert" mode wouldn't really gain that much from moving down difficultly levels. I, on the other hand, who couldn't handle "expert" mode would benefit immensely from moving down to "medium". Again, I might not necessarily win, but it would be much closer.
These two examples deal with narrowing the skill gap in a given activity by making it easier for everyone. People bring this point up all the time: "Yeah, Source is easier, but it's easier for everyone, so it doesn't matter" - NO. Wrong.
The fact that when a game is easier, it's easier for everyone, is totally irrelevant in the Source/1.6 discourse. The relevant question is, "who benefits from Source being easier?" And obviously, just as a basketball player who couldn't hit as many shots with a smaller hoop would benefit more from a doubled rim diameter than Kobe Bryant would, and a DDR player who couldn't beat "expert" would benefit more from moving down to "medium" than a player would could already beat "expert" would, gamers who can't play at the top level in CS 1.6 benefit more from moving to Source (the easier game of the two; a game with bigger targets, easier guns, relatively slower movement, and stronger flashbangs) than the gamers who already could play at the highest level in 1.6 do.
This is why it's called "narrowing the skill gap", because all of a sudden, there is tight competition, where before, there was no tight competition. Everyone in Counter-Strike culture knows that Source players cannot transition to 1.6, while 1.6 players can transition to Source, and that if a team like Hyper were to play a team like coL in 1.6, it would be an absolute blowout. But in Source, since the skill gap has been narrowed, there's legitimate competition all of a sudden. The teams are at the same level. This is because, when a game is made easier, even though it's easier for everyone, the change serves to level the playing field, because players of a lower skill level benefit more from the change than players of a higher skill level.
Look, Who benefits from SC2 being easier? It is not a lack of competition, as the competition in sc2 is through the roof, hence the massive changes in meta game from beta until now (with some help from patches).Obviously an easier game is a better credit to the volatile results. Polt Vs MMA is a great example of the more skilled player being at a disadvantage due to the simplicity of the game.
Btw, i like how my point has proof, and your point is entirely opinion based, yet my opinion is silly. Thats a brilliant way to downplay someone else's opinion that differs from yours but makes you question your objectiveness ~
On October 25 2011 11:12 VoirDire wrote: For just sc2 it's a dumb configuration. Maybe they want to get "future safe".
Sc2 is single threaded and 32 bit which means 8 GB ram will never ever be used, sc2 won't even use 2 gb ram. In addition, Sc2 doesn't Anti Aliasing or huge textures, so the high end graphics card won't really be used either. What sc2 uses though, is the processor. And since it's single threaded, more than 2 CPU cores won't do anything for sc2 performance.
They should have skipped some of the ram and graphics card and got i7 processors.
There are several inaccuracies in your post.
1). SC2 is not single threaded. It has been stated by their lead engine programmer that threads 0 and 1 are the most heavily utilized, but the other two are also utilized to a lesser extent.
2). The amount of memory address space is determined by the operating system and not the application. Assuming that they will be running Win7 64bit, SC2 can utilize as much of that 8GB of RAM as it needs to.
3). MSAA/FSAA can be force enabled via driver.
4). You state that SC2 only takes advantage of 1 thread yet then recommend that they buy more expensive CPUs whose main advantage is the fact that they have hyper-threading which provides 8 logical threads instead of 4. The core clock speeds of the i5-2500k and the i7-2600k are almost identical (only a difference of .10GHz) and the i-7 only provides an extra 2 mb of shared L3 Cache. In terms of SC2 performance these chips are almost identical yet the i-7 is a lot more expensive.
woot i got i5/gtx 560 too! But they are not that high-end expensive actually. I think that the only tell is from the Monitor. Widescreen to CRT is HUGE difference even for a casual like me especially for a 640x480 game like BW.
There is no way that a precision freak like Flash who measures every single possible distance with a ruler would be comfortable playing BW in widescreen. Unless ProLeague/OGN starts using widescreen monitors for their BW then these monitors are going to be used to play a different game.
On October 25 2011 11:31 Holcan wrote: Yes, through comparative measure it is quite easy to tell the challenge of a game. Especially dealing with the skill cap, and mechanics, which are quite obvious when comparing a new streamlined game compared to an outdated game.
This is some very shoddy reasoning. You're basically presuming at the outset that SC2 is an easier game based entirely on your own subjective feelings about it. From there, you conclude that the skill cap must explain the success of foreigners and the volatility in results.
You cannot conclude a priori that SC2 is an easier game. Many of the mechanics are easier, but that doesn't mean it's an easier game. In fact, it's quite obvious that the top SC2 players are far from perfect players, so despite some mechanics requiring less APM, there are a lot of areas of improvement to sink extra APM into. Moreover, game sense and timings are also a big part of a successful player and have nothing to do with easier mechanics. You have absolutely zero evidence that anyone has come close to hitting the SC2 skill cap in terms of mechanics, game sense and timing.
There is simply no reason to conclude that volatile results are a result of players hitting the skill cap rather than the obvious fact that the top SC2 players simply aren't as good as the top BW players. There is variance in the results because there is more parity in terms of inherent skill within SC2 at the moment due to the lack of "bonjwa" players.
And even then, the variance within SC2 is not particularly high.
On October 25 2011 11:12 VoirDire wrote: For just sc2 it's a dumb configuration. Maybe they want to get "future safe".
Sc2 is single threaded and 32 bit which means 8 GB ram will never ever be used, sc2 won't even use 2 gb ram. In addition, Sc2 doesn't Anti Aliasing or huge textures, so the high end graphics card won't really be used either. What sc2 uses though, is the processor. And since it's single threaded, more than 2 CPU cores won't do anything for sc2 performance.
They should have skipped some of the ram and graphics card and got i7 processors.
SC2 uses 2 cores but its third and fourth core optimization could use some work. Also you can apply anti aliasing to SC2 through drivers EZPZ.
Also i7 processors are inferior to i5 2500k for SC2, I don't know why you are bringing it up. It only makes sense for people who are really into streaming, which i doubt the entire team is.
Sc2s 2nd core performance could use some work also. Sc2 "uses" multiple cores but all the work load is put on a single core. One can open Windows task manager, click the performance tab and then load up a 8 player sc2 replay and run it in 8x. You'll quickly see which core is designated for sc2.
You are probably right in that the 2500k seems like the optimal CPU for sc2, but I think that the i7 2700k would outperform it simply due to the higher clock rate.
For just sc2 it's a dumb configuration. Maybe they want to get "future safe".
Sc2 is single threaded and 32 bit which means 8 GB ram will never ever be used, sc2 won't even use 2 gb ram. In addition, Sc2 doesn't Anti Aliasing or huge textures, so the high end graphics card won't really be used either. What sc2 uses though, is the processor. And since it's single threaded, more than 2 CPU cores won't do anything for sc2 performance.
They should have skipped some of the ram and graphics card and got i7 processors.
SC2 uses 2 cores but its third and fourth core optimization could use some work. Also you can apply anti aliasing to SC2 through drivers EZPZ.
Also i7 processors are inferior to i5 2500k for SC2, I don't know why you are bringing it up. It only makes sense for people who are really into streaming, which i doubt the entire team is.
Sc2s 2nd core performance could use some work also. Sc2 "uses" multiple cores but all the work load is put on a single core. One can open Windows task manager, click the performance tab and then load up a 8 player sc2 replay and run it in 8x. You'll quickly see which core is designated for sc2.
You are probably right in that the 2500k seems like the optimal CPU for sc2, but I think that the i7 2700k would outperform it simply due to the higher clock rate.
Yes, but you are going to be spending more money for a very slight increase in performance. It's widely accepted that at this moment, the best PC you are going to get for your dollar would be the i5 2500k, a 560ti fermi and 4 GB RAM (and obviously the appropriate motherboard, case and PSU)
Getting 8 GB is not a big deal though, because quite honestly, it's so damn cheap there's no reason not to get those 4 extra for future proofing purposes.
I really dislike this. It feels like kespa is imposing sc2 on the players. I'd be fine if they wanted to switch when their contracts run out, but as passion is what keeps you going I wouldn't want to hurt that balance. I don't know if they're driven by the game or the group mentality though so maybe they simply don't care.
I wonder if they're keeping the other screens for bw practice? seems like an unfair disadvantage to be forced to practice on a screen that's meant for another generation of games.
On October 25 2011 11:31 Holcan wrote: Yes, through comparative measure it is quite easy to tell the challenge of a game. Especially dealing with the skill cap, and mechanics, which are quite obvious when comparing a new streamlined game compared to an outdated game.
This is some very shoddy reasoning. You're basically presuming at the outset that SC2 is an easier game based entirely on your own subjective feelings about it. From there, you conclude that the skill cap must explain the success of foreigners and the volatility in results.
You cannot conclude a priori that SC2 is an easier game. Many of the mechanics are easier, but that doesn't mean it's an easier game. In fact, it's quite obvious that the top SC2 players are far from perfect players, so despite some mechanics requiring less APM, there are a lot of areas of improvement to sink extra APM into. Moreover, game sense and timings are also a big part of a successful player and have nothing to do with easier mechanics. You have absolutely zero evidence that anyone has come close to hitting the SC2 skill cap in terms of mechanics, game sense and timing.
There is simply no reason to conclude that volatile results are a result of players hitting the skill cap rather than the obvious fact that the top SC2 players simply aren't as good as the top BW players. There is variance in the results because there is more parity in terms of inherent skill within SC2 at the moment due to the lack of "bonjwa" players.
And even then, the variance within SC2 is not particularly high.
You didn't even read my post, no where did i say people hit a skill cap...this is pointless, you arent even arguing against me, you take a select paragraph and choose which part you don't like about it, without reading my post in its entirety. I thought maybe I was enlightening an ignorant to the ways of the skill, but it appears that you are arguing just for the sake of arguing. Good night.
For just sc2 it's a dumb configuration. Maybe they want to get "future safe".
Sc2 is single threaded and 32 bit which means 8 GB ram will never ever be used, sc2 won't even use 2 gb ram. In addition, Sc2 doesn't Anti Aliasing or huge textures, so the high end graphics card won't really be used either. What sc2 uses though, is the processor. And since it's single threaded, more than 2 CPU cores won't do anything for sc2 performance.
They should have skipped some of the ram and graphics card and got i7 processors.
SC2 uses 2 cores but its third and fourth core optimization could use some work. Also you can apply anti aliasing to SC2 through drivers EZPZ.
Also i7 processors are inferior to i5 2500k for SC2, I don't know why you are bringing it up. It only makes sense for people who are really into streaming, which i doubt the entire team is.
Sc2s 2nd core performance could use some work also. Sc2 "uses" multiple cores but all the work load is put on a single core. One can open Windows task manager, click the performance tab and then load up a 8 player sc2 replay and run it in 8x. You'll quickly see which core is designated for sc2.
You are probably right in that the 2500k seems like the optimal CPU for sc2, but I think that the i7 2700k would outperform it simply due to the higher clock rate.
Yes, but you are going to be spending more money for a very slight increase in performance. It's widely accepted that at this moment, the best PC you are going to get for your dollar would be the i5 2500k, a 560ti fermi and 4 GB RAM (and obviously the appropriate motherboard, case and PSU)
Getting 8 GB is not a big deal though, because quite honestly, it's so damn cheap there's no reason not to get those 4 extra for future proofing purposes.
Yes, the 2500k is the best bang for the buck for gaming currently as we already established. I'm not interested in discussing general gaming hardware in this thread. If they're just going for optimal starcraft 2 performance, it's CPU performance that should be focused. Not ram or GPU.
Why future proof with ram? Better to just buy more ram if you need it. It's not like it's hard to install ram.
On October 25 2011 12:50 Euronyme wrote: I love the computer performance discussion running between worried bw posters and hopeful sc2 posters lmao ^_^ TL never disappoints.
Not worried in the least. When IM or SlayerS (or EG lol) starts paying out 8 GSL 1st place prizes in base salary to someone, then I'll be worried.
On October 25 2011 12:50 Euronyme wrote: I love the computer performance discussion running between worried bw posters and hopeful sc2 posters lmao ^_^ TL never disappoints.
On October 25 2011 12:50 Euronyme wrote: I love the computer performance discussion running between worried bw posters and hopeful sc2 posters lmao ^_^ TL never disappoints.
hardly worried.
Oh no offence man. Some were, that's all. Personally I'm a worried sc2 fan. As I said earlier I really don't want anyone to switch for the wrong reasons. I hope kespa doesn't do anything stupid.
On October 25 2011 11:26 Antisocialmunky wrote: They are upgrading Flash, Flash will become self aware in 2012.
Impossible. He is only human...
>.>
Flash is a cyborg.
Flash is god.
Compromise. God of the cyborgs.
no,Flash is god.
oh and this news does not relate to SC2 at all,don't see why its here though.
If it's in the BW section, there will be comments of how the SC2 crowd is "trolling" BW with the constant speculation of X player/team moving to sc2.
Can't satisfy anybody regardless of where this thread is. at least it's not in community news...?
I would be satisfied if it were on the BW forums,because everything in this thread is purely speculation,so it won't be on the community forums and if its not on the Commnuity forums,SC2 fans won't even see the thread.
and if any SC2 fan "Trolls" he would be met with a swift ban,win/win for me.
Couldn't it also be possible that they have to upgrade because they have some tech companies as sponsors? They might have some LG deal going on (no idea about who sponsors who in BW) or Proleague itself might make the switch to represent new, exciting tech by new sponsors.
Plus, I don't know about the actual TV production of BW but 640*480 is just an old, ugly format when everybody has 1080p screens at home. Maybe they're trying to accomodate that?
However, personally I'll go with a new SC2 team for Proleague.
KT BF3 team. The game was released today. Why on earth would they waste any more time with those useless RTS games that I've been hearing about when they can fly jets and drive tanks and blow up shit and stuff.
On October 25 2011 11:26 Antisocialmunky wrote: They are upgrading Flash, Flash will become self aware in 2012.
Impossible. He is only human...
>.>
Flash is a cyborg.
Flash is god.
Compromise. God of the cyborgs.
no,Flash is god.
oh and this news does not relate to SC2 at all,don't see why its here though.
If it's in the BW section, there will be comments of how the SC2 crowd is "trolling" BW with the constant speculation of X player/team moving to sc2.
Can't satisfy anybody regardless of where this thread is. at least it's not in community news...?
and if any SC2 fan "Trolls" he would be met with a swift ban,win/win for me.
The defenition of "trolls" on this specific topic varies a great deal between the two sub-forums.
Besides, I'd argue that this topic got nothing to do with BW at all. The way it's presented is a clear hint or suggestion that KT might be getting ready to plunge in to SC2. BW got nothing to do with it.
On October 25 2011 03:07 SeaSwift wrote: This is just my own pondering, but I think that Blizzard is preparing to release an updated graphics BW - an "official" SC2BW, if you like. I remember seeing Starcraft: Phoenix on the estimated timeline sheet of Blizzard and thinking that it sounds likely - after all, how many more foreigner fans would it bring in, being able to watch BW without the crappy graphics? I expect them to keep the retarded AI etc the same, so that it doesn't alienate BW watchers.
Not really substantiated by evidence at all, just my hopes ^_^
Even if Phoenix were an updated version of SCBW, it wouldn't be the same. The SC2 pathing is just too good. SC2BW is pretty cool, but it simply isn't the same game.
Most likely, this is either just an upgrade for the sake of keeping their PCs up to date, or they're going to create a separate SC2 team. I highly doubt they'll switch their BW team to SC2 this soon.
Would a super modern computer running windows 7 actually be less optimal for running SCbw? I know that I wish i had a windows 2000 computer lying around for RA2YR and BW and maybe duke nukem if it can.
On October 25 2011 03:02 VirgilSC2 wrote: While I was never a huge Brood War follower, I sincerely hope this is either:
A) A NEW KT Rolster SC2 Team B) A Hardware Upgrade for no reason
I'd hate to see the current A-Team from Rolster switch over, it makes much more sense to sign a new SC2 team, seeing as Proleague will now feature both SC2 and Brood War.
On October 25 2011 16:03 RaiKageRyu wrote: I would have halved the ram and downgrade the graphics card a bit for an i7 instead. SC2 is more processor reliant.
The extra threads that the i7 provides is worthless. i7 processors are not actuly better or faster, they just have more threads which is useful for video rendering etc. Coming from an i7 owner, they are just the same as i5's for gaming, infact worse, because the extra heat generated by hyperthreading means you cant overclock frequency as high.
i5 has 4 cores 4 threads, i7 has 4 cores 8 threads.
Starcraft 2 uses 1 thread, and offloads audio etc onto a second.
The other 2-4 threads are idle, at 0-1% usage, for the entire gameplay experience, even in 800 vs 800 food where you are fps capped hard by CPU, an i5 at 5ghz gives you the exact same fps as an i7 at 5ghz and yet costs $100 less.
RAM is worthless past 4gb for sc2 performance.
I run with 6gb RAM on my first gen i7 (triple channel) and running just windows 7 with aero disabled (which i do for performance, enabling it adds a delay to everything for no reason) i can run windows and sc2 with under 2.5gb RAM at peak, so the extra RAM does nothing at all.
I cap at about 400fps on lowest settings 1920x1080, that caps 1 CPU core, puts another at 20% or so, and puts my GTX580 to 25% load.
The GTX560 is too powerful for the game unless they run on high/extreme settings, and wont run at anything near max capacity.
On October 25 2011 16:03 RaiKageRyu wrote: I would have halved the ram and downgrade the graphics card a bit for an i7 instead. SC2 is more processor reliant.
They'll be able to run at max settings with that processor anyway. We're not even sure they're upgrading for SC2 anyway.
On October 25 2011 03:09 BroodWarHD wrote: CRT to lcd is more of a down grade though.. even if a 120hz lcd, its still much slowe than the 150-250 HZ crts can push through at BW resolution
On October 25 2011 03:07 SeaSwift wrote: This is just my own pondering, but I think that Blizzard is preparing to release an updated graphics BW - an "official" SC2BW, if you like. I remember seeing Starcraft: Phoenix on the estimated timeline sheet of Blizzard and thinking that it sounds likely - after all, how many more foreigner fans would it bring in, being able to watch BW without the crappy graphics? I expect them to keep the retarded AI etc the same, so that it doesn't alienate BW watchers.
Not really substantiated by evidence at all, just my hopes ^_^
On October 25 2011 03:09 BroodWarHD wrote: CRT to lcd is more of a down grade though.. even if a 120hz lcd, its still much slowe than the 150-250 HZ crts can push through at BW resolution
On October 25 2011 03:07 SeaSwift wrote: This is just my own pondering, but I think that Blizzard is preparing to release an updated graphics BW - an "official" SC2BW, if you like. I remember seeing Starcraft: Phoenix on the estimated timeline sheet of Blizzard and thinking that it sounds likely - after all, how many more foreigner fans would it bring in, being able to watch BW without the crappy graphics? I expect them to keep the retarded AI etc the same, so that it doesn't alienate BW watchers.
Not really substantiated by evidence at all, just my hopes ^_^
OMG, why aren't they all using that graphics ?! (have no idea what it is ....)
It actually makes bw watchable!
It is a resolution hack.
It uses the exact same graphics, sprites, effects, etc, but displays at a higher resolution.
People need to learn what resolution actuly means, i see so many people (not really you, but others) going OMGGGGGG!!11!!11!1!1!!HIGH DEFINITION without actuly having a clue what they are talking about.
On October 25 2011 03:09 BroodWarHD wrote: CRT to lcd is more of a down grade though.. even if a 120hz lcd, its still much slowe than the 150-250 HZ crts can push through at BW resolution
On October 25 2011 03:07 SeaSwift wrote: This is just my own pondering, but I think that Blizzard is preparing to release an updated graphics BW - an "official" SC2BW, if you like. I remember seeing Starcraft: Phoenix on the estimated timeline sheet of Blizzard and thinking that it sounds likely - after all, how many more foreigner fans would it bring in, being able to watch BW without the crappy graphics? I expect them to keep the retarded AI etc the same, so that it doesn't alienate BW watchers.
Not really substantiated by evidence at all, just my hopes ^_^
OMG, why aren't they all using that graphics ?! (have no idea what it is ....)
It actually makes bw watchable!
It is a resolution hack.
It uses the exact same graphics, sprites, effects, etc, but displays at a higher resolution.
People need to learn what resolution actuly means, i see so many people (not really you, but others) going OMGGGGGG!!11!!11!1!1!!HIGH DEFINITION without actuly having a clue what they are talking about.
Yeah but, since bw is all sprite based, would not a higher resolution enlarge the field of view?
Wouldn't that be cosidered cheating, since you can see more stuff than someone with the normal resolution, without moving the camera?
On October 25 2011 03:09 BroodWarHD wrote: CRT to lcd is more of a down grade though.. even if a 120hz lcd, its still much slowe than the 150-250 HZ crts can push through at BW resolution
On October 25 2011 03:07 SeaSwift wrote: This is just my own pondering, but I think that Blizzard is preparing to release an updated graphics BW - an "official" SC2BW, if you like. I remember seeing Starcraft: Phoenix on the estimated timeline sheet of Blizzard and thinking that it sounds likely - after all, how many more foreigner fans would it bring in, being able to watch BW without the crappy graphics? I expect them to keep the retarded AI etc the same, so that it doesn't alienate BW watchers.
Not really substantiated by evidence at all, just my hopes ^_^
OMG, why aren't they all using that graphics ?! (have no idea what it is ....)
It actually makes bw watchable!
It is a resolution hack.
It uses the exact same graphics, sprites, effects, etc, but displays at a higher resolution.
People need to learn what resolution actuly means, i see so many people (not really you, but others) going OMGGGGGG!!11!!11!1!1!!HIGH DEFINITION without actuly having a clue what they are talking about.
Yeah but, since bw is all sprite based, would not a higher resolution enlarge the field of view?
Wouldn't that be cosidered cheating, since you can see more stuff than someone with the normal resolution, without moving the camera?
Yea thats why it is not in game.
It is a resolution hack.
Higher resolution would always enlarge the field of view, in any game with a standard camera, unless you use static scaling like sc2 does - 1280x720 would give the same view field as 1920x1080 - because both are 16: 9 aspect ratio
I really don't think there will be a SC2 Proleague. That is just Kespa talking about their own wishes, but they don't have the power to decide that on their own. Everyone hates Kespa, so I doubt anyone will let them start a pro league.
On October 25 2011 17:27 Clefairy wrote: I really don't think there will be a SC2 Proleague. That is just Kespa talking about their own wishes, but they don't have the power to decide that on their own. Everyone hates Kespa, so I doubt anyone will let them start a pro league.
What that post actually says is:
"I hate Kespa, and here's some completely irrational and uninformed rant based around that fact".
On October 25 2011 17:27 Clefairy wrote: I really don't think there will be a SC2 Proleague. That is just Kespa talking about their own wishes, but they don't have the power to decide that on their own. Everyone hates Kespa, so I doubt anyone will let them start a pro league.
What that post actually says is:
"I hate Kespa, and here's some completely irrational and uninformed rant based around that fact".
No it doesn't. I'm saying that what Kespa are essentially doing with those articles is saying "Hey we want to do an SC2 Pro League, so you guys are going to let us do it". They, and all the people that take the article as meaning there will actually be an SC2 Pro League are getting ahead of themselves. I don't hate Kespa, I'm talking about Gom and Blizzard when I say "everyone (that matters)".
On October 25 2011 16:03 RaiKageRyu wrote: I would have halved the ram and downgrade the graphics card a bit for an i7 instead. SC2 is more processor reliant.
RAM is so damn cheap these days so that wouldn't help much. And the setup they have is more than enough to comfortably run SC2 on Ultra, stream it and have plenty of power left over.
On October 25 2011 03:09 BroodWarHD wrote: CRT to lcd is more of a down grade though.. even if a 120hz lcd, its still much slowe than the 150-250 HZ crts can push through at BW resolution
On October 25 2011 03:07 SeaSwift wrote: This is just my own pondering, but I think that Blizzard is preparing to release an updated graphics BW - an "official" SC2BW, if you like. I remember seeing Starcraft: Phoenix on the estimated timeline sheet of Blizzard and thinking that it sounds likely - after all, how many more foreigner fans would it bring in, being able to watch BW without the crappy graphics? I expect them to keep the retarded AI etc the same, so that it doesn't alienate BW watchers.
Not really substantiated by evidence at all, just my hopes ^_^
OMG, why aren't they all using that graphics ?! (have no idea what it is ....)
It actually makes bw watchable!
It is a resolution hack.
It uses the exact same graphics, sprites, effects, etc, but displays at a higher resolution.
People need to learn what resolution actuly means, i see so many people (not really you, but others) going OMGGGGGG!!11!!11!1!1!!HIGH DEFINITION without actuly having a clue what they are talking about.
Yeah but, since bw is all sprite based, would not a higher resolution enlarge the field of view?
Wouldn't that be cosidered cheating, since you can see more stuff than someone with the normal resolution, without moving the camera?
Yea thats why it is not in game.
It is a resolution hack.
Higher resolution would always enlarge the field of view, in any game with a standard camera, unless you use static scaling like sc2 does - 1280x720 would give the same view field as 1920x1080 - because both are 16: 9 aspect ratio
I'm sure there's still the oddball on SC2 that still uses 4:3 resolution, does that mean everyone with a 16: 9 resolution is cheating? I don't really see how it should be different from BW. Just because I can see a bit more on 1 screen doesn't mean I can instantly go on Fish and start pwning koreans. It might even be a hindrance because units are smaller therefore it might be harder to micro.
And iirc launchers like the iccup one are technically hacks aren't they as well? It's all in the wording, it's either a hack, mod, update etc depending on whether you like it or not. It's not like it gives you any tangible in game benefits any more so than something like lan latency.
On October 25 2011 03:09 BroodWarHD wrote: CRT to lcd is more of a down grade though.. even if a 120hz lcd, its still much slowe than the 150-250 HZ crts can push through at BW resolution
On October 25 2011 03:07 SeaSwift wrote: This is just my own pondering, but I think that Blizzard is preparing to release an updated graphics BW - an "official" SC2BW, if you like. I remember seeing Starcraft: Phoenix on the estimated timeline sheet of Blizzard and thinking that it sounds likely - after all, how many more foreigner fans would it bring in, being able to watch BW without the crappy graphics? I expect them to keep the retarded AI etc the same, so that it doesn't alienate BW watchers.
Not really substantiated by evidence at all, just my hopes ^_^
OMG, why aren't they all using that graphics ?! (have no idea what it is ....)
It actually makes bw watchable!
It is a resolution hack.
It uses the exact same graphics, sprites, effects, etc, but displays at a higher resolution.
People need to learn what resolution actuly means, i see so many people (not really you, but others) going OMGGGGGG!!11!!11!1!1!!HIGH DEFINITION without actuly having a clue what they are talking about.
Ty Yeah, i actually had no clue how it worker Whether its a mod/hack/whatever ^^
On October 25 2011 17:19 dezi wrote: Mh, Flash to dominate SC2?
Probably be at the top, but dominate it? Not for quite a few months of playing it. It may have mechanics similar to SCBW but the game is completely changed.
KeSPA sees the money being put into SC2 (at least on the foreign side) and sees a potential source of income
KeSPA (rumored) created a subsection of the Proleague to incorporate SC2 into the mix
KeSPA tells the team their plan to expand their income model and possible offer some sort of subsidy to the teams to improve hardware capabilities beyond BW levels
KT (and I suspect other teams) upgrade all or at least a serious portion of their hardware to high-end levels (at least SC2, but possibly even beyond in order to account to other titles that KeSPA may begin to support pending popularity)
Now I predict that:
KT and the other teams will maintain a core BW team, but offer support to perhaps lower level players who really don't have much exposure, but want to try to reach a level of televised games. As well as supporting current top tier players who may wish to possible switch or at least try SC2 without losing these players to foreign or other SC2 teams.
KT and other KeSPA locked teams will play exclusively in KeSPA regulated tournaments for at least the foreseeable future and act as a kind of hook for Proleague SC2 in a world filled with many other high profile tournaments.
KeSPA may allow lower level players from KeSPA regulated teams out into foreign events in order to build up global recognition of the teams and Proleague, but also in order to get more views for their sponsors. Putting them in a better negotiating position.
Evenutally I would assume KeSPA and Gretech would come to some sort of agreement or even partnership in terms of Korean SC2. But not before Proleague SC2 rivals GSL, which may or may not happen pending a whole lot of issues out of their control. Like foreign success for example.
I have a feeling the Korean scene may become artificially split between KeSPA and Gretech. Probably fueled by the BW vs. SC2 debate, but certainly containing a bit of pride by both parties. I don't see KeSPA asking for Gretech's help or "bowing out" to them. They seem too set in their ways and proud to do that. I do get a bit of a feeling that after the KeSPA/Blizzard legal issue, this move is bitter sweet for KeSPA and not something they are necessarily looking forward to at the moment.
I do believe though that KT's upgrade is not a unilateral decision, but one that was probably pushed a bit by KeSPA in order to have at guaranteed source of talent for their SC2 version of Proleague without having to compete for players with the GSL or hope for foreign participation.
You guys really don't want to accept the writing on the wall, do you?
I'm pretty sure Flash could tap you on the mouth with his organ, wrapped in a cloth that reads "I'm switching to SC2" and you would make some kind of excuses like "it's winter he's just cold and he needs to keep that warm."
On October 27 2011 14:36 synergy_sin wrote: You guys really don't want to accept the writing on the wall, do you?
I'm pretty sure Flash could tap you on the mouth with his organ, wrapped in a cloth that reads "I'm switching to SC2" and you would make some kind of excuses like "it's winter he's just cold and he needs to keep that warm."
there has to be some writing on the wall for me to accept.
KT got new PCs and thats pretty much it.
I go by the facts, speculation in the end is just speculation.
my guess is that kt will particpate in the GSL, cuz they can. And the proleague, meaning multiple teams... not just KT hints that kespa will usher in or create more sc2 teams.
i will be surprised if kespa's sc2 proleague is a open proleague. usually proleague is only for kespa-sanctioned teams only. so either kespa is obtaining the current sc2 teams or adding more computers to the other bw teams.
but so far, the news only indicate KT so... an open proleague of their own may be cool.
as afar as getting the liscense...
doesnt gomtv have to renew their exclusive license? does it apply to HOTS? i dunno
On October 27 2011 14:52 Lokian wrote: the rumored sc2 proleague is interesting.
my guess is that kt will particpate in the GSL, cuz they can. And the proleague, meaning multiple teams... not just KT hints that kespa will usher in or create more sc2 teams.
i will be surprised if kespa's sc2 proleague is a open proleague. usually proleague is only for kespa-sanctioned teams only. so either kespa is obtaining the current sc2 teams or adding more computers to the other bw teams.
but so far, the news only indicate KT so... an open proleague of their own may be cool.
as afar as getting the liscense...
doesnt gomtv have to renew their exclusive license? does it apply to HOTS? i dunno
Didn't gretech give up their exclusive sc2 license? Thats something else that makes me think this isn't that big of a deal, no other teams have upgraded their computers yet so at the most I think its just going to be KT opening up a SC2 team on top of their bw roster. KT is a pretty big organization with a field hockey team and stuff like that so I think that its natural at a corporate level to get a sc2 team.
On October 27 2011 14:52 Lokian wrote: the rumored sc2 proleague is interesting.
my guess is that kt will particpate in the GSL, cuz they can. And the proleague, meaning multiple teams... not just KT hints that kespa will usher in or create more sc2 teams.
i will be surprised if kespa's sc2 proleague is a open proleague. usually proleague is only for kespa-sanctioned teams only. so either kespa is obtaining the current sc2 teams or adding more computers to the other bw teams.
but so far, the news only indicate KT so... an open proleague of their own may be cool.
as afar as getting the liscense...
doesnt gomtv have to renew their exclusive license? does it apply to HOTS? i dunno
Didn't gretech give up their exclusive sc2 license? Thats something else that makes me think this isn't that big of a deal, no other teams have upgraded their computers yet so at the most I think its just going to be KT opening up a SC2 team on top of their bw roster. KT is a pretty big organization with a field hockey team and stuff like that so I think that its natural at a corporate level to get a sc2 team.
I think Gretech gave up their BW license, which they weren't using anyways (although they did have a joke BW match on April Fools day for GSL). I think they're still holding onto their exclusive SC2 license for now.
I am going to assume they either pick up one of the current sc2 teams that don't have sponsors, merging with a team, or some of their B teamers switch and they plan on helping them out or whatever. That is just my guess but I don't think the whole team is going to switch to sc2 or anything.
Probably, as people speculated, KT Rolster potentially adding on a SC2 team. Doubt there'll be a lot of switches, but maybe a few. Probably, like most pros, a lot of those who can't crack BW or have fallen away. This wouldn't surprise me at all.
On October 27 2011 16:57 paschl wrote: the sun could easily explode and we wouldnt know until like 8 minutes later. so there is a little wiggle room!
No, I pretty sure the physics of the matter wouldn't allow for it just explode for no reason. It would have to get really messed up by something else to make it unstable enough first.
On October 27 2011 16:57 paschl wrote: the sun could easily explode and we wouldnt know until like 8 minutes later. so there is a little wiggle room!
No, I pretty sure the physics of the matter wouldn't allow for it just explode for no reason. It would have to get really messed up by something else to make it unstable enough first.
sorry i thought the easily gave away that i wasnt quite serious. but theres a lot of things in the universe, there might be some sort of impact or something way more complicated that could make it ex-/implode.
On October 25 2011 03:02 VirgilSC2 wrote: While I was never a huge Brood War follower, I sincerely hope this is either:
A) A NEW KT Rolster SC2 Team B) A Hardware Upgrade for no reason
I'd hate to see the current A-Team from Rolster switch over, it makes much more sense to sign a new SC2 team, seeing as Proleague will now feature both SC2 and Brood War.
EDIT: *removed image*
What is the keyboard that is being used in this?
I think it is an zowie celeritas and the mouse is a logitech g9(x)
On October 25 2011 17:19 dezi wrote: Mh, Flash to dominate SC2?
Probably be at the top, but dominate it? Not for quite a few months of playing it. It may have mechanics similar to SCBW but the game is completely changed.
Rather the reason might be that SC2 is still too volatile. That's also a main argument for BW progamers to still stay in BW, because their winnings there are very solid and secure, compared to SC2. People usually quote MVP, Nestea, MC as very big money winners, but it's actually not something as sure as the winnings in BW.
The BW vs SC2 shit is pretty funny to watch. It reminds me of the CS1.6 vs CS:S debate with the difference that I'm the 'source' guy this time. So people should understand that the old BW guys love their fucking game and 'hate' SC2 because it's not really like BW.
I don't like CS:S and I think it's not at all like 1.6 not even close. And now I'm the SC2 fan that can relate to the oldschool BW players that are thinking SC2 is shit.
Well whatever after the news about Gretech and KeSPA being open to negotiations it's just a matter of time until they announce that some teams are getting an SC2 division like B-Teamers playing SC2 instead of BW. But I'm pretty sure that the big dogs (Flash, Jaedong, Bisu etc.) are not switching anytime soon.
On October 27 2011 22:40 unsaintly wrote: The BW vs SC2 shit is pretty funny to watch. It reminds me of the CS1.6 vs CS:S debate with the difference that I'm the 'source' guy this time. So people should understand that the old BW guys love their fucking game and 'hate' SC2 because it's not really like BW.
I don't like CS:S and I think it's not at all like 1.6 not even close. And now I'm the SC2 fan that can relate to the oldschool BW players that are thinking SC2 is shit.
Well whatever after the news about Gretech and KeSPA being open to negotiations it's just a matter of time until they announce that some teams are getting an SC2 division like B-Teamers playing SC2 instead of BW. But I'm pretty sure that the big dogs (Flash, Jaedong, Bisu etc.) are not switching anytime soon.
To be fair though source was actually a terrible game compared to 1.6, sc2 is actually good in it's own right and I believe has already reached global heights that sc1 never reached and BW is atm a better game than sc2, but sc1 isn't and if sc2 has 10years of esports and evolves they'll be haters for the next popular RTS that trys to replace it
On October 27 2011 22:40 unsaintly wrote: The BW vs SC2 shit is pretty funny to watch. It reminds me of the CS1.6 vs CS:S debate with the difference that I'm the 'source' guy this time. So people should understand that the old BW guys love their fucking game and 'hate' SC2 because it's not really like BW.
I don't like CS:S and I think it's not at all like 1.6 not even close. And now I'm the SC2 fan that can relate to the oldschool BW players that are thinking SC2 is shit.
Well whatever after the news about Gretech and KeSPA being open to negotiations it's just a matter of time until they announce that some teams are getting an SC2 division like B-Teamers playing SC2 instead of BW. But I'm pretty sure that the big dogs (Flash, Jaedong, Bisu etc.) are not switching anytime soon.
To be fair though source was actually a terrible game compared to 1.6, sc2 is actually good in it's own right and I believe has already reached global heights that sc1 never reached and BW is atm a better game than sc2, but sc1 isn't and if sc2 has 10years of esports and evolves they'll be haters for the next popular RTS that trys to replace it
Same as music every generation is different.
That is, if you don't loose interest along two more EX packs. WoL has turned out fine, but we'll have to wait and see how much is left after ItV.
I'm optimistic, but wanted to stress the fact that SC2 might end up entirely different- possibly remain popular and possibly attracting a whole different audience than right now.
On October 27 2011 20:29 blubbdavid wrote: lol wait wut? Why is this in the SC2 forums?
Because its going to go in the direction of "KT to SC2" type discussion anyway, so I think the topic creator or mods just wanted to cut to the chase and put it where the flame would die out sooner. I mean, a lot of BW fans block out the SC2 section the best they can, so their wouldn't really be anyone to argue the BW vs. SC2 crap if its here. While in the BW section there are enough SC2 fans that its not uncommon for them to leak over anyway.
would you get annoyed if every time you opened a thread for player news there were posts on every page talking about how great it would be if nestea switched to LoL?
Can't wait to see Flash rolling over everybody in SC2. Though I love BW and think that it's so much better than SC2, it seems that BW is only big in Korea and if they add SC2 to the proleague the time is running out. The earlier the best players start training for SC2 the faster they'll get better.
On October 28 2011 15:07 Gann1 wrote: would you get annoyed if every time you opened a thread for player news there were posts on every page talking about how great it would be if nestea switched to LoL?
How do you know he isn't?!
On topic, is it really news that people playing computer games for a living gets computers that are up to date once in a while? Feels like one of the most non-story I've read in a while. Take away the tweet and what do you have?
The only thing I can really see happening is them switching over to SC2. If they were replacing the computers due to wear and tear they wouldn't get 8gb of RAM for BW...
On October 28 2011 15:07 Gann1 wrote: would you get annoyed if every time you opened a thread for player news there were posts on every page talking about how great it would be if nestea switched to LoL?
What a bad comparison.... LoL is a COMPLETELY different game, it's biggest target is casuals and imo it's a joke of a competitive game.
On October 25 2011 03:00 Sabu113 wrote: I would think that with the hours they put in on their computers the wear and tear would require some fairly regular replacement.
you'd be surprised, when i was younger and reclusive, i'd play games 12 hours a day, for about 3 years straight, pc didn't mess up once.
EPT
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