EPTTLDR People who complain about spoilers are killing e-sports!!!!!
Is the « spoiler fear » hurting E-sports ? - Page 25
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We are currently talking about this issue in the mod forum. We take this issue very seriously, and want to find the best way to serve those who want faster results, and those that don't wish to be spoiled. | ||
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wtchuwahmon
Australia63 Posts
TLDR People who complain about spoilers are killing e-sports!!!!! | ||
BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50121 Posts
On October 13 2011 13:34 Lord Hakera wrote: Wait, you mean if I write something up and actually send it, there's a chance it might get published within the next 24 hours as a Spotlight or News post or something? Because I watch some of the big tournaments and I wouldn't have minded to write up a recap of the finals for IEM - Guangzhou or IPL 3 for example. Something short like + Show Spoiler + Stephano walked over his Korean FXOLucky opponent in the finals of IPL3 in a memorable fashion, establishing complete dominance with a 4-0 win in what can only be described as an unbelievable breath-taking series Otherwise, if the news post is in all-caps, with bold red letters and a [SPOILER] at the front, saying something like [SPOILER] IPL COMES TO A CONCLUSION AFTER A SERIES THAT CAN ONLY BE DESCRIBED AS BREATHTAKING , I don't see why people who wouldn't like to have the results spoiled can't just ignore it. On the topic, I personally check the results of all tournaments I've missed on this amazing thing called Liquipedia. And only if I see something that surprises me, like an upset, would I try to find the VODs. Take GSL for example. MVP steamrolling over Keen 4-1 in the finals wasn't really that amazing, so I'm content with the results. Idra beating Revival in IEM-Guangzhou 2-0.. Yeah, I watched that game and the whole tournament afterwards (stayed late just for those amazing Puma games). I'm sure there are other people who just use Liquipedia and decide afterwards weather the series are worth watching or not. So I think if there are people kind enough to give some of their time to write something not so fancy so it can be put in the front page for the comunity, just as an initial announcement, that shouldn't be too unreasonable. Coupled with the [SPOILER] in the front, I think all the whiners and haters and generally bitchy people, who feel the pathological need to express they are important by being jerks on the internet won't have much of an excuse. Then again, I could be wrong: I saw this big all-caps news post about this huge tournament I've missed, but wanted to watch the finals of and even though I saw the giant bold [SPOILER] at the front I couldn't help myself and clicked on it. Now all the anticipation is ruined for me because I couldn't saddle my curiosity and I feel the need to bitch at someone.. Oh look, TL.net mods. Edit: In my edits, I fix my mistakes, because even though I preview my posts for mistakes, I never find them out until I have posted it. Or I realize there is a better way to say something afterwards. if yours was exceptionally good,yes it will be spotlighted,but not go as a news post though.if you continue to post such exceptional write ups,you will become a TL writer and then maybe you could have it as a news post 24hrs after the event,because of TL's spoiler policy that we are debating here. | ||
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Bayyne
United States1967 Posts
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geno
United States1404 Posts
On October 13 2011 12:02 xBillehx wrote: Cool, but again TL writers don't finish their write-ups instantly. I'm seriously getting tired of posting this. Regardless of TL's spoiler policy, it'd be at LEAST a day before the TL write-up gets finished, edited, checked for quality and then finally posted. That day in itself is effectively enough time for people to watch VOD's, so even without trying to stick to a spoiler policy it's already done. What exactly is the reason for trying to disregard spoilers in the first place if what you're asking for isn't a result of spoiler fear but rather lack of manpower/time? I don't think anyone is pushing for TL to rush-job their awesome 5-10+ page wrap-ups with in-depth analysis, interviews, recaps, etc. This is more about the hard & fast BIG ticket news items, where you really don't need much content. It's not an article, it's just news (and pictures). It doesn't take that much time, and even volunteers can push that kind of content out within minutes. For example: + Show Spoiler [IPL3 Spoiler] + Stephano dominates IPL3, sinks Slasher! In dominating fashion, Stephano took out his Korean opponent FXO.  Lucky in a clean 4-0 sweep today in the finals of IGN's IPL3 Origins tournament in Atlantic City, securing the grand prize of $30,000.He took out several other strong players on his way to the finals including  TheStC,  Inori, and RGN.KiWiKaKi.With IEM Guangzhou results last week, this marks two major foreigner wins in tournaments with strong Korean competition in a row. Slasher's outstanding bet against this happening has now been thoroughly dismantled. He was heard to remark, "I'm fucked." Discuss your thoughts on Stephano's powerful run here! That took me about 20 minutes, most of which was spent finding a picture of Stephano with the trophy and trying to fit in a a shot against Slasher. Yet, even with so little content, I think it would go a long way to help bridge that hype gap from before a major tournament to it's exciting conclusion. | ||
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Robinsa
Japan1333 Posts
On October 13 2011 01:05 Liquid`Tyler wrote: That isn't the full explanation. Spoiler protection is there for people who want to browse TL.net between the time when the match they want to watch has aired and when they watch the VODs. What are they reading that interests them more than watching the actual content? Anyone who reads TL without watching anything obviously doesn't care about being spoiled. Anyone who reads TL to supplement their VOD watching has no reason to read TL if they haven't watched the VODs. I think a lot of people, including myself enjoy to go to TL and read about the latest esport drama and about who got signed to what team etc. I should be able to do that even if I have work that day and is not able to watch the 12 hours of dreamhack/MLG right away. Especially not since the MLG final is on a Sunday in the us which means it air until 11 am Monday morning for people in Asia/Australia. When I get home there simply isn't enough time to watch all the games I want. Even if I plan my schedule only after MLG. Spoilers should stay in the livethread for the first 2 days or so at least so people get a chance to watch the games without being spoiled. | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50121 Posts
On October 13 2011 13:45 Bayyne wrote: Hurting esports >.> why do people overuse this term? I blame this http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/blogitems.php?site=mikilatov&page=2 | ||
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Lord Hakera
7 Posts
On October 13 2011 13:45 geno wrote: I don't think anyone is pushing for TL to rush-job their awesome 5-10+ page wrap-ups with in-depth analysis, interviews, recaps, etc. This is more about the hard & fast BIG ticket news items, where you really don't need much content. It's not an article, it's just news (and pictures). It doesn't take that much time, and even volunteers can push that kind of content out within minutes. For example: + Show Spoiler [IPL3 Spoiler] + Stephano dominates IPL3, sinks Slasher! In dominating fashion, Stephano took out his Korean opponent FXO. Lucky in a clean 4-0 sweep today in the finals of IGN's IPL3 Origins tournament in Atlantic City, securing the grand prize of $30,000.He took out several other strong players on his way to the finals including TheStC, Inori, and RGN.KiWiKaKi.With IEM Guangzhou results last week, this marks two major foreigner wins in tournaments with strong Korean competition in a row. Slasher's outstanding bet against this happening has now been thoroughly dismantled. He was heard to remark, "I'm fucked." Discuss your thoughts on Stephano's powerful run here! That took me about 20 minutes, most of which was spent finding a picture of Stephano with the trophy and trying to fit in a a shot against Slasher. Yet, even with so little content, I think it would go a long way to help bridge that hype gap from before a major tournament to it's exciting conclusion. Exactly like this! But with a topic which won't let out on who the actual winner is, just teasing the awesome series. The only problem that might arise is that there might be 10 threads like that, so probably just sending it to a TL writer is better. That way he can just skim over them, select the best one and post it as a news post. No overflowing of basically mirror topics and no actual spoiler, until you open the news post. And hey, if you opened it, you can't bitch about it afterwards. It will have a giant SPOILER in front. n_≤ | ||
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Chained
United States137 Posts
I understand it sucks that this is a global thing and its not easy staying up at 3am everyday to follow a big tournament. But there are so many tournaments anyways that you cant keep up with every game anyways. If you want it to be an e-"sport" you need to follow more traditional "sport" traditions. nfl/mlb/nba official sites keep their sites up to date, and dont fool yourself like there arent outside interest, it might not be as much as starcraft, but they cant wait for everyone to watch it. They set the pace, you keep up with it anyway you want. | ||
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GrimReefer
United States442 Posts
i would love to see an awesome picture showing some emotion from the victor and a little tiny write-up. when breaking news happens nearly all news websites start the story with a paragraph or two, then a few hours later it's expanded and a few hours after that it is added to again, and so on. there's no need for a lengthy super awesome well written treatise on the tournament. just give me a picture and show some love for the winner. too many awesome tournaments are unceremoniously forgotten because by the time anything is posted i'm watching the next tournament. | ||
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Hattori_Hanzo
Singapore1229 Posts
Yet you took 20 minutes to find the pic of the winner holding the prize. On October 13 2011 13:45 geno wrote: I don't think anyone is pushing for TL to rush-job their awesome 5-10+ page wrap-ups with in-depth analysis, interviews, recaps, etc. This is more about the hard & fast BIG ticket news items, where you really don't need much content. It's not an article, it's just news (and pictures). It doesn't take that much time, and even volunteers can push that kind of content out within minutes. For example: + Show Spoiler [IPL3 Spoiler] + Stephano dominates IPL3, sinks Slasher! In dominating fashion, Stephano took out his Korean opponent FXO. Lucky in a clean 4-0 sweep today in the finals of IGN's IPL3 Origins tournament in Atlantic City, securing the grand prize of $30,000.He took out several other strong players on his way to the finals including TheStC, Inori, and RGN.KiWiKaKi.With IEM Guangzhou results last week, this marks two major foreigner wins in tournaments with strong Korean competition in a row. Slasher's outstanding bet against this happening has now been thoroughly dismantled. He was heard to remark, "I'm fucked." Discuss your thoughts on Stephano's powerful run here! That took me about 20 minutes, most of which was spent finding a picture of Stephano with the trophy and trying to fit in a a shot against Slasher. Yet, even with so little content, I think it would go a long way to help bridge that hype gap from before a major tournament to it's exciting conclusion. | ||
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xBillehx
United States1289 Posts
On October 13 2011 13:51 Lord Hakera wrote: Exactly like this! But with a topic which won't let out on who the actual winner is, just teasing the awesome series. The only problem that might arise is that there might be 10 threads like that, so probably just sending it to a TL writer is better. That way he can just skim over them, select the best one and post it as a news post. No overflowing of basically mirror topics and no actual spoiler, until you open the news post. And hey, if you opened it, you can't bitch about it afterwards. It will have a giant SPOILER in front. n_≤ ^ Basically this. I think stuff like this is great, just needs a little work. I think if you added a bit more, maybe mentioning other top placing players, who they went through etc and had a non spoiler title like "In a dominating fashion, IPL Winner wrecks opponent" it could make community news that very same day. The curious people who don't mind spoilers will open the thread & see it's Stephano, while those who do mind notice "IPL winner" & realize it'd spoil it. Essentially I believe titles can be engaging without spoiling, and once the warning is there all bets are off on anyone who ruins their own experience. I don't think things should remain spoiler'd for a week, just 24 hours, enough time for people to wake up/get out of work/catch up with VOD's. | ||
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Robinsa
Japan1333 Posts
On October 13 2011 13:45 geno wrote: I don't think anyone is pushYing for TL to rush-job their awesome 5-10+ page wrap-ups with in-depth analysis, interviews, recaps, etc. This is more about the hard & fast BIG ticket news items, where you really don't need much content. It's not an article, it's just news (and pictures). It doesn't take that much time, and even volunteers can push that kind of content out within minutes. For example: + Show Spoiler [IPL3 Spoiler] + Stephano dominates IPL3, sinks Slasher! In dominating fashion, Stephano took out his Korean opponent FXO. Lucky in a clean 4-0 sweep today in the finals of IGN's IPL3 Origins tournament in Atlantic City, securing the grand prize of $30,000.He took out several other strong players on his way to the finals including TheStC, Inori, and RGN.KiWiKaKi.With IEM Guangzhou results last week, this marks two major foreigner wins in tournaments with strong Korean competition in a row. Slasher's outstanding bet against this happening has now been thoroughly dismantled. He was heard to remark, "I'm fucked." Discuss your thoughts on Stephano's powerful run here! That took me about 20 minutes, most of which was spent finding a picture of Stephano with the trophy and trying to fit in a a shot against Slasher. Yet, even with so little content, I think it would go a long way to help bridge that hype gap from before a major tournament to it's exciting conclusion. Since the argument is about spoilers I have to ask you: wouldnt it be possible to put an article like this in a spoiler tag as well ? Having it on the front page only ruins it for some of us. Or is your article "with so little content" as you described it yourself more important than our experience ? If I want fast news without substance I'd try to find another site. Please don't make TL one. | ||
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dUTtrOACh
Canada2339 Posts
I never look at the results before I watch VODs because I actually pay for them (GSL). Even if I could guess the winner, I'd experience less enjoyment as a spectator from knowing the results beforehand. If I lived in Korea, GSL would be on at a normal time, and thus I'd be able to watch it live. For events like IPL, Blizzcon and MLG, which I can watch live, spoilers are less of a big deal. Some people hate surprises. I'm not one of them. I'm also not going to use some false percentage to make it seem like people with the latter opinion are the majority. I'm just saying that in regards to fairness to everyone, a little time to catch up before having the results plastered all over the place seems reasonable. | ||
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Zulk
United States20 Posts
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RaiKageRyu
Canada4773 Posts
No matter how amazing the content is. Watching a VOD that I know the outcome to, there is this voice in my head that says this would have felt so much more amazing if I didn't how it ended. That's simply how life works. Surprises burns impressions. You take famous movies with famous twists like Empire Strikes Back and Sixth Sense and watch them knowing what the twist is, you will never ever share the same reaction as those that watched it unknowingly. Game 5 sc VS Nestea. Wouldn't be so legendarily epic if the result was broadcasted from the future 5 mins before it ended. Also, I really need to point some damn bias correlation here. The last time a thread like this popped up, it was when Huk won DreamHack. Now it pops up again when Stephano wins IPL. You guys didn't %*#(%*#() complain when Koreans won every major tournament. You guys didn't complain for any GSLs that happened. Seriously... WTF? You wanna celebrate and get hype? Get together with people and have a after party. You don't need a splash image to hit it home for you, when you actually watched it live. | ||
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FLEIA
Canada71 Posts
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Lord Hakera
7 Posts
On October 13 2011 13:58 xBillehx wrote: ^ Basically this. I think stuff like this is great, just needs a little work. I think if you added a bit more, maybe mentioning other top placing players, who they went through etc and had a non spoiler title like "In a dominating fashion, IPL Winner wrecks opponent" it could make community news that very same day. The curious people who don't mind spoilers will open the thread & see it's Stephano, while those who do mind notice "IPL winner" & realize it'd spoil it. Essentially I believe titles can be engaging without spoiling, and once the warning is there all bets are off on anyone who ruins their own experience. I don't think things should remain spoiler'd for a week, just 24 hours, enough time for people to wake up/get out of work/catch up with VOD's. I can do something like this for MLG Orlando for example and I can post it quickly, within an hour after the event. I could even write something about other matches and contenders which I thought would be worth mentioning in preparation and have it ready in advance, to be finished after the finals. I can even take some screenshots of the stream and post 1-2 ok pictures and maybe update later if someone provides better ones. Only question is should I post it directly or send it to someone first? | ||
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xBillehx
United States1289 Posts
On October 13 2011 14:05 Lord Hakera wrote: I can do something like this for MLG Orlando for example and I can post it quickly, within an hour after the event. I could even write something about other matches and contenders which I thought would be worth mentioning in preparation and have it ready in advance, to be finished after the finals. I can even take some screenshots of the stream and post 1-2 ok pictures and maybe update later if someone provides better ones. Only question is should I post it directly or send it to someone first? PM Waxangel to ask him just in case. I'd imagine something like this would deserve it's own thread easily, but if its good enough (and he has time away from MLG/IEM) he might throw it together in a featured news post with that of others. The only problem there is that usually takes days to get out. :\ So yeah ask him if it's cool to just post one in SC2 General and hope it's good enough to get spotlighted/community news'd etc etc. If you get no response then just post it anyway and see what happens. Good intentions shouldn't be met with any warnings/bans.  | ||
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Zirith
Canada403 Posts
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LagT_T
Argentina535 Posts
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