EDIT Oct. 9th Loner aquired his visa successfully, so the 2 Chinese representatives at BlizzCon will be Toodming and Loner.
EDIT Sept.28th: Update: Blizzard is in the process of helping the players applying for the visa for 2nd time, former BW-pro Toodming has successfully acquired his visa and Xigua, Uhen and Loner are underway, the players that get visa or finished higher in the qualifier will go to Anaheim next month.
Sources from multiple Chinese esports news sites suggest due to unforeseen (or foreseen) US visa problems, the 2 BlizzCon Invitational Chinese qualifier winners, iG.XiGua and Tyloo.Uhen, will not be able to participate in the BlizzCon Global Battle.Net Invitational on October 21st-22nd at Anaheim, California.
According to a World of Warcraft Arena 3v3 participant, they "get almost everything needed or unneeded ready to the embassy, including past US visit records, but get declined almost instantly." The 2 WoW arena teams and the 2 SC2 players' visa application all get rejected, only the SC2 map maker contest winner made it.
It's yet unknown whether there will be substitutes, or Blizzard will try to negotiate with the US embassy.
I dont get why it would be that level of difficult to enter the US as a Chinese citizen.. China is supposed to be the communist nation that is hard to enter, yet you dont often hear of americans denied visas to China -_-
On September 20 2011 22:33 Liquid`Jinro wrote: I dont get why it would be that level of difficult to enter the US as a Chinese citizen.. China is supposed to be the communist nation that is hard to enter, yet you dont often hear of americans denied visas to China -_-
Well, I don't think half as many Americans go to China as Chinese people going to America.
On September 20 2011 22:33 Liquid`Jinro wrote: I dont get why it would be that level of difficult to enter the US as a Chinese citizen.. China is supposed to be the communist nation that is hard to enter, yet you dont often hear of americans denied visas to China -_-
There were many many cases that people leave China for whatever reasons (tourists, work related,...) and never came back to China. They most likely are afraid of talent bleeding than stupid stuffs like politics and security.
On September 20 2011 22:45 jackrandomsx wrote: Post 9/11 it's become very difficult to enter the US from any nation that doesnt have visa exemptions. it's terrible what's happened here.
which is strange because the states needs more money and chinese tourists spends the most
weird, being chinese but with an australian passport, i got my usa visa just fine. i doubt this was anything politically related....but who knows :S
It could be something as simple as a missing paper or form filled out incorrectly. I hope the players/Blizzard can work with the embassy and get these players here to compete
On September 20 2011 22:42 ladyumbra wrote: If Blizzard couldn't help TB when he has visa issues I seriously doubt they can help now * Sighs*
Don't quote me verbatim, but I think TB's visa issues extended beyond that of a typical visa denial. His name appeared on the terrorist watch list (by mistake, obviously, unless he's really killing eSports...), and he was detained and interrogated for a long time before he was sent back to England. There's a podcast or forum post out there where he explains the whole ordeal.
That being said, it's sad to hear that these great players can't compete for two days in the United States. Hopefully things get resolved.
On September 20 2011 22:33 Liquid`Jinro wrote: I dont get why it would be that level of difficult to enter the US as a Chinese citizen.. China is supposed to be the communist nation that is hard to enter, yet you dont often hear of americans denied visas to China -_-
The reason is very simple. Because US bureaucracy is horrible and way behind the times. That America shoots itself in the foot to deny tourists $$$$ out of the stupid fear of "taking American jobs that no one else wants" is retarded to say the least.
You are correct in that there's no "logical" reason why this should be the case. What? They fear Xigua will take Idra's job as America's BM zerg player and put Idra out of a job? It's ludicrous, but that's actually their fear.
On September 20 2011 22:33 Liquid`Jinro wrote: I dont get why it would be that level of difficult to enter the US as a Chinese citizen.. China is supposed to be the communist nation that is hard to enter, yet you dont often hear of americans denied visas to China -_-
Maybe China does not want them to know what FREEDOM is like.
All joking aside, i don't really get it either other chinese athletes are constantly allowed into foreign countries to basically gain fame for their country, maybe Blizzard needs to try that angle.
u.s. visa laws, screwing up another big sc2 finals royaly (like bratok and the nasl finals)... <.< is there any chance that the players are allowed to participate in the event online?
On September 20 2011 22:33 Liquid`Jinro wrote: I dont get why it would be that level of difficult to enter the US as a Chinese citizen.. China is supposed to be the communist nation that is hard to enter, yet you dont often hear of americans denied visas to China -_-
Maybe China does not want them to know what FREEDOM is like.
All joking aside, i don't really get it either other chinese athletes are constantly allowed into foreign countries to basically gain fame for their country, maybe Blizzard needs to try that angle.
isn't normally the country where you want to fly to setting the visa rules? at least I have to go to the american embassy when I wanted a visa to go there (same with chinese embassy).
On September 20 2011 22:33 Liquid`Jinro wrote: I dont get why it would be that level of difficult to enter the US as a Chinese citizen.. China is supposed to be the communist nation that is hard to enter, yet you dont often hear of americans denied visas to China -_-
Maybe China does not want them to know what FREEDOM is like.
All joking aside, i don't really get it either other chinese athletes are constantly allowed into foreign countries to basically gain fame for their country, maybe Blizzard needs to try that angle.
isn't normally the country where you want to fly to setting the visa rules? at least I have to go to the american embassy when I wanted a visa to go there (same with chinese embassy).
Country of citizenship prevent citizens from leaving the country by not issuing them passports. Country of destination prevent non-citizens from entering the country by not issuing them visas.
It require both sides for any person to leave the country. But since you can't even apply for a visa without a passport, they obviously got cockblocked by the US embassy .
That's not surprising to me, it's incredibly hard to get a US Visa from China. If what my friends tell me is correct, you need to do an interview at the embassy even if you're just going for a short trip.
China's visa system is bullshit too though, so I guess it's an eye for an eye =/
On September 20 2011 22:33 Liquid`Jinro wrote: I dont get why it would be that level of difficult to enter the US as a Chinese citizen.. China is supposed to be the communist nation that is hard to enter, yet you dont often hear of americans denied visas to China -_-
Maybe China does not want them to know what FREEDOM is like.
All joking aside, i don't really get it either other chinese athletes are constantly allowed into foreign countries to basically gain fame for their country, maybe Blizzard needs to try that angle.
Uhhh. This is about Chinese citizens unable to enter US, not China blocking them. The US blocked the Visas...
On September 20 2011 22:33 Liquid`Jinro wrote: I dont get why it would be that level of difficult to enter the US as a Chinese citizen.. China is supposed to be the communist nation that is hard to enter, yet you dont often hear of americans denied visas to China -_-
I dont think it the political system that made them unable to go to usa, cause I got a lot of american friends here in China, and many of my Chinese friends could also go to usa with amost no trouble, but i dont know why they have been rejected. feel sad T.T
On September 20 2011 22:33 Liquid`Jinro wrote: I dont get why it would be that level of difficult to enter the US as a Chinese citizen.. China is supposed to be the communist nation that is hard to enter, yet you dont often hear of americans denied visas to China -_-
The reason is very simple. Because US bureaucracy is horrible and way behind the times. That America shoots itself in the foot to deny tourists $$$$ out of the stupid fear of "taking American jobs that no one else wants" is retarded to say the least.
You are correct in that there's no "logical" reason why this should be the case. What? They fear Xigua will take Idra's job as America's BM zerg player and put Idra out of a job? It's ludicrous, but that's actually their fear.
Woah now, i think you are really jumping to some wild conclusions.
Maybe you guys don't know, but some brazilians couldn't make it to Latin America Invitational and then Blizzard took some replacements, they searched for players that already lived in USA or had a valid visa still.
Though the brazilian problem was mainly buroucracy as it takes 6+ months to get it.
On September 20 2011 23:17 FuRong wrote: That's not surprising to me, it's incredibly hard to get a US Visa from China. If what my friends tell me is correct, you need to do an interview at the embassy even if you're just going for a short trip.
China's visa system is bullshit too though, so I guess it's an eye for an eye =/
Huh? I don't know about NZ, but I am an American. My process for getting a Chinese visa was as follows.
Step 1: Give embassy my passport one page form with my basic info like name and address. Step 2: Get my visa
On September 20 2011 23:12 Thezzphai wrote: This sucks, I was really looking forward to seeing XiGua play. Hopefully Blizzards gets this sorted...
Same here. Absolutely sucks, and it's not the first time players/teams won't get their visas soon enough or at all. Same shit happened with Dota 2 Invitational.
They should just stop with these kind of events in the US and instead do them in Asia/EU wherever they don't have as moronic Visa processes (wich is probably about everywhere else except for some of the harshest dictatorships on the planet)...
Fuck that, I want to see these Chinese players that are ranked 1-5 of the Grand Master League. Otherwise I can not help to believe that the Chinese Ladder is inferior, which it probably isn't.
On September 20 2011 22:33 Liquid`Jinro wrote: I dont get why it would be that level of difficult to enter the US as a Chinese citizen.. China is supposed to be the communist nation that is hard to enter, yet you dont often hear of americans denied visas to China -_-
The reason is very simple. Because US bureaucracy is horrible and way behind the times. That America shoots itself in the foot to deny tourists $$$$ out of the stupid fear of "taking American jobs that no one else wants" is retarded to say the least.
You are correct in that there's no "logical" reason why this should be the case. What? They fear Xigua will take Idra's job as America's BM zerg player and put Idra out of a job? It's ludicrous, but that's actually their fear.
Woah now, i think you are really jumping to some wild conclusions.
I think you took my post literally. Obviously the last part was tongue and cheek.
But in general, that's the biggest fear for the American embassy. It's the same reason why Arizona wants to build fences to keep out illegal immigrants. American's immigration policies has always been fear of foreign labor replacing our own. And China is hit hard especially because they possess skilled laborers like Computer programmers and Engineers that actually replaces white collar jobs. Nevermind the fact that the American education system today sucks ass and our students are never properly taught math and science. We still keep out skilled laborers so our own work force would be so incompetent companies just outsource to other countries anyway.
On September 20 2011 22:33 Liquid`Jinro wrote: I dont get why it would be that level of difficult to enter the US as a Chinese citizen.. China is supposed to be the communist nation that is hard to enter, yet you dont often hear of americans denied visas to China -_-
It's generally harder to get into the US if you're from a so-called "poorer" country unless you have either a student visa or if you have a job already lined up in the States. The stated reason is national security but in reality it probably has more to do with the risk of them never leaving -- something that happens quite a bit.
On September 20 2011 23:17 FuRong wrote: That's not surprising to me, it's incredibly hard to get a US Visa from China. If what my friends tell me is correct, you need to do an interview at the embassy even if you're just going for a short trip.
China's visa system is bullshit too though, so I guess it's an eye for an eye =/
china visa isn't hard, just expensive if you want it done quick. especially for americans
On September 20 2011 22:33 Liquid`Jinro wrote: I dont get why it would be that level of difficult to enter the US as a Chinese citizen.. China is supposed to be the communist nation that is hard to enter, yet you dont often hear of americans denied visas to China -_-
It's generally harder to get into the US if you're from a so-called "poorer" country unless you have either a student visa or if you have a job already lined up in the States. The stated reason is national security but in reality it probably has more to do with the risk of them never leaving -- something that happens quite a bit.
i think defection was more prevalent in the 80's than it is now....
My mother works at an American Consular Office (one of the places where they give out visas) in China, and I've worked there for summer jobs before so I have a slightly-better-than-average understanding of how this works.
Given that the chinese players only wanted to stay in the US for a few days to play in a video game tournament, the only problems I can see with their applications would be:
a) The visa officer suspected the chinese players of wanting to illegally stay in the US after their visa duration ended b) The chinese players were suspected of being dangerous to the US
or by far the most likely situation: c) Either the chinese players or the visa officers made a mistake and a perfectly acceptable visa application was rejected due to human error somewhere.
Over a hundred thousand chinese people get visas to go to the US every year, so it's not like they were rejected out of hand because of their nationality. It's impossible to know without any further information, but I'm pretty sure there was just a simple mistake made somewhere rather than something nefarious or politically motivated.
If you want to get a visa on a Chinese passport, you need to prove you have x amount of money in the bank, e.g 20k to go to Korea/Japan. Considering they are progamers, no real surprise they didn't meet the requirement.
On September 20 2011 23:32 lazyfeet wrote: How come loner able to travel to us for blizzcon so easy last year?
Because they check your background thoroughly. Your financials, your work, parents information(to see how rich they are), your English skills, do you have family in the US, and even just how much the interviewer likes you.
Loner obviously passed the background check and the interview. These two guys didn't. Why can't they? Because the background check is designed so they'd rather reject 100 acceptable applications for the fear that 1 application has a guy who wants to stay in the US and work at McDonalds.
On September 20 2011 23:46 Shen_ wrote: China loves making it hard to leave China....because people often don't want to go back. This isn't unique to e-sports.
please read the OP properly. the issue has nothing to do with the chinese government preventing the players from leaving
I think the chances that this can be chalked up to human error, such as a field on a form left blank or filled in wrong, are pretty good. The quote from the OP even suggests that issue might've been on their end.
On September 20 2011 22:26 digmouse wrote: "get almost everything needed or unneeded ready to the embassy, including past US visit records, but get declined almost instantly."
As little as 3 months ago a friend of mine with a Chinese passport who lives in Hong Kong managed to get a visa to visit New Jersey for a week. She had never been in the U.S. prior to that visit, had no family there, and was not a student. I'm just having trouble seeing why the government would pick on a couple Starcraft 2 players. Just seems unlikely.
I think it's just because America and its processes are terribly inefficient currently... I traveled to China this year and the wait in lines to get across customs was very short, even with all the people I had gotten off the plane with. And then I came back to America and I waited for like... ever to get through even though I'm an American citizen. But the Chinese people who came on the plane with me had to wait for a very long time, just because America ramped up its security so much due to 9/11... So I imagine visa processes would be similar.
On September 20 2011 23:54 papaz wrote: damn it. this is really bad
I mean, it's not like China was nuked because these guys were denied for visas. It's not cool that they won't get to play, but it's not exactly something we should be mourning over.
On September 20 2011 23:17 FuRong wrote: That's not surprising to me, it's incredibly hard to get a US Visa from China. If what my friends tell me is correct, you need to do an interview at the embassy even if you're just going for a short trip.
China's visa system is bullshit too though, so I guess it's an eye for an eye =/
Huh? I don't know about NZ, but I am an American. My process for getting a Chinese visa was as follows.
Step 1: Give embassy my passport one page form with my basic info like name and address. Step 2: Get my visa
It's also quite a bit different if you're traveling there for a competition/potential for a payout. Since a traveler's visa is easy to get, but something more than that and it gets harder.
On September 20 2011 22:33 Liquid`Jinro wrote: I dont get why it would be that level of difficult to enter the US as a Chinese citizen.. China is supposed to be the communist nation that is hard to enter, yet you dont often hear of americans denied visas to China -_-
The key difference is that players are coming to the US in order to "work" temporarily and possibly win money. Thus, they need a different VISA than the usual tourist one.
On September 20 2011 22:33 Liquid`Jinro wrote: I dont get why it would be that level of difficult to enter the US as a Chinese citizen.. China is supposed to be the communist nation that is hard to enter, yet you dont often hear of americans denied visas to China -_-
Maybe China does not want them to know what FREEDOM is like.
All joking aside, i don't really get it either other chinese athletes are constantly allowed into foreign countries to basically gain fame for their country, maybe Blizzard needs to try that angle.
aww
Is that possible? would be interesting if that worked... heh
why do people blame the embassy for this. It's most likely Blizzard's fault for not putting in the request the right way, or more likely not putting it in at all, leaving players to apply themselves for a work visa for some "fictitious" multi-thousand dollar game tournament. LOL!
The US is pretty tough to get into if you're not from a Commonwealth or NATO country. Everyone else is a suspected communist spy. I recall Russians having a terribly hard time going to the US for Starcraft tournaments because of their communist legacy.
On September 20 2011 22:33 Liquid`Jinro wrote: I dont get why it would be that level of difficult to enter the US as a Chinese citizen.. China is supposed to be the communist nation that is hard to enter, yet you dont often hear of americans denied visas to China -_-
Maybe China does not want them to know what FREEDOM is like.
All joking aside, i don't really get it either other chinese athletes are constantly allowed into foreign countries to basically gain fame for their country, maybe Blizzard needs to try that angle.
aww
Is that possible? would be interesting if that worked... heh
lol at people who fail to realize that it's the US embassy that is making problem, a visa is not delivered by the state where you come from. They probably can't use a tourism visa, so that's probably why things are completly retarded. Honestly TSA and visa delivery is absolutely retarded, I don't know if Americans realize how bad it is. They even ask you if you are a terrorist/killed someone in your country etc when you enter the country... bureaucracy at its finest.
I have my doubts that the Chinses players will be allowed into America even if Blizzard talk directly to the US Embassy. Oh well, here's hoping I'm wrong.
On September 20 2011 22:33 Liquid`Jinro wrote: I dont get why it would be that level of difficult to enter the US as a Chinese citizen.. China is supposed to be the communist nation that is hard to enter, yet you dont often hear of americans denied visas to China -_-
There were many many cases that people leave China for whatever reasons (tourists, work related,...) and never came back to China. They most likely are afraid of talent bleeding than stupid stuffs like politics and security.
I think it was the US that denied the visa in this case, not China... but if i remember correctly there was once a big Magic tournie in Japan and a Chineese player had to pay a deposit to make sure he'd return.
I hope this will be resolved, because i'm interested to see what kind of playstyles and talent China has to offer. It's sad if they can't come to BlizzCon because of a lack of knowledge about this scene by embassies.
On September 20 2011 22:33 Liquid`Jinro wrote: I dont get why it would be that level of difficult to enter the US as a Chinese citizen.. China is supposed to be the communist nation that is hard to enter, yet you dont often hear of americans denied visas to China -_-
Well hypocrisy is a big theme in US foreign policy. I suppose it is a curse of all politics actually. People will of course point to the idea that Chinese people are likely to enter the US and stay as illegal migrants but much of this concept is just orientalism.
Getting an US Visa is actually incredibly difficult as of the last few years. My fiancee is from Spain and we have to jump through quite a few hoops for her previous tourist VISA and her current K-1 VISA. Basically they are super strict about EVERY detail and also if your case is processed by the Vermont center you're fucked as far as I can tell because their wait times are like two three month longer than the other centers.
On September 20 2011 22:33 Liquid`Jinro wrote: I dont get why it would be that level of difficult to enter the US as a Chinese citizen.. China is supposed to be the communist nation that is hard to enter, yet you dont often hear of americans denied visas to China -_-
Maybe China does not want them to know what FREEDOM is like.
All joking aside, i don't really get it either other chinese athletes are constantly allowed into foreign countries to basically gain fame for their country, maybe Blizzard needs to try that angle.
aww
Is that possible? would be interesting if that worked... heh
lol at people who fail to realize that it's the US embassy that is making problem, a visa is not delivered by the state where you come from. They probably can't use a tourism visa, so that's probably why things are completly retarded. Honestly TSA and visa delivery is absolutely retarded, I don't know if Americans realize how bad it is. They even ask you if you are a terrorist/killed someone in your country etc when you enter the country... bureaucracy at its finest.
That made me laugh when my sister told me that there was checkbox on the entry form to US that basically asked if she was a terrorist I wonder how many people check that box. But American visa system is rather bad as it depends a lot on subjective opinion of the guy deciding. If he does not like you that is enough reason to deny visa. It is still not as bad as I heard it is in Japan, but still.
On September 20 2011 22:33 Liquid`Jinro wrote: I dont get why it would be that level of difficult to enter the US as a Chinese citizen.. China is supposed to be the communist nation that is hard to enter, yet you dont often hear of americans denied visas to China -_-
Maybe China does not want them to know what FREEDOM is like.
All joking aside, i don't really get it either other chinese athletes are constantly allowed into foreign countries to basically gain fame for their country, maybe Blizzard needs to try that angle.
aww
Is that possible? would be interesting if that worked... heh
lol at people who fail to realize that it's the US embassy that is making problem, a visa is not delivered by the state where you come from. They probably can't use a tourism visa, so that's probably why things are completly retarded. Honestly TSA and visa delivery is absolutely retarded, I don't know if Americans realize how bad it is. They even ask you if you are a terrorist/killed someone in your country etc when you enter the country... bureaucracy at its finest.
That made me laugh when my sister told me that there was checkbox on the entry form to US that basically asked if she was a terrorist I wonder how many people check that box. But American visa system is rather bad as it depends a lot on subjective opinion of the guy deciding. If he does not like you that is enough reason to deny visa. It is still not as bad as I heard it is in Japan, but still.
Yes, such a checkbox exists. Yes, I am ashamed of my government for including it. No, I didn't vote for any of these people.
On September 20 2011 22:33 Liquid`Jinro wrote: I dont get why it would be that level of difficult to enter the US as a Chinese citizen.. China is supposed to be the communist nation that is hard to enter, yet you dont often hear of americans denied visas to China -_-
it happens quite often. Visa is always extremely complicated/simple, if they don't like you, they can find lots of reasons to reject it
On September 20 2011 22:33 Liquid`Jinro wrote: I dont get why it would be that level of difficult to enter the US as a Chinese citizen.. China is supposed to be the communist nation that is hard to enter, yet you dont often hear of americans denied visas to China -_-
The reason is very simple. Because US bureaucracy is horrible and way behind the times. That America shoots itself in the foot to deny tourists $$$$ out of the stupid fear of "taking American jobs that no one else wants" is retarded to say the least.
You are correct in that there's no "logical" reason why this should be the case. What? They fear Xigua will take Idra's job as America's BM zerg player and put Idra out of a job? It's ludicrous, but that's actually their fear.
Stop frothing at the mouth and calm down. There are different classes of visa, the players im sure did not apply for a work visa, which is what they would need to get a job.
This is retarded by the US embassy. They are not just any random Chinese, with Blizzard's invitation they got the best guarantee as one can gets and still got denied? Hope that Blizzard can work something out since this is very frustrating for they players, they fought thru the Chinese qualify for nothing O_O? T_T
Just as a point of clarification, to apply for a visa, you go to talk to US officials in China. It is the US denying the players a visa and therefore entry into the US, not China denying them. This is why Blizzard may talk to the US Embassy in China to resolve this issue as they are the ones in charge of who gets a visa and who does not.
On September 20 2011 22:33 Liquid`Jinro wrote: I dont get why it would be that level of difficult to enter the US as a Chinese citizen.. China is supposed to be the communist nation that is hard to enter, yet you dont often hear of americans denied visas to China -_-
They probably applied late, imagine how many Chinese people apply for visas to the US.
very confusing indeed. Well, according to the original source, the WoW player said the officer of the embassy only asked for the invitation paper(don't know what exactly it was), then the officer said the material they provided was not matched, not even took a look at the other stuff they brought. Can't figure out what was going wrong, maybe that guy was too frustrated to tell the whole story.
I believe it's WCG 2004 or so, chinese players were not able to attend also due to visa issue. As someone already said, to go abroad you need a good financial condition， or a bank certification， and other stuff which was not possible for a progamer here in china. The requirement of other country's visa can very well be like this too I guess, but the reason above may not fit this year's blizzcon, we'll never know as those representative themselves dont make it clear.
God, our immigration policies are so backward. It's so difficult for European or Canadian citizens to immigrate, and someone who's coming here just for a short stay for a legitimate reason has problems, and yet our southern border is so poorly guarded.
On September 20 2011 22:33 Liquid`Jinro wrote: I dont get why it would be that level of difficult to enter the US as a Chinese citizen.. China is supposed to be the communist nation that is hard to enter, yet you dont often hear of americans denied visas to China -_-
The reason is very simple. Because US bureaucracy is horrible and way behind the times. That America shoots itself in the foot to deny tourists $$$$ out of the stupid fear of "taking American jobs that no one else wants" is retarded to say the least.
You are correct in that there's no "logical" reason why this should be the case. What? They fear Xigua will take Idra's job as America's BM zerg player and put Idra out of a job? It's ludicrous, but that's actually their fear.
Oh calm the fuck down. I'm a Chinese citizen who emigrated to the US years ago. It isn't an easy process, especially if you don't have a US company or University to sponsor you. The number of Chinese people trying to get green cards to the United States FAR surpasses the number of Americans trying to go to China. A lot of Chinese looking to get into the US use very "creative" reasons in their applications. More than likely some border agent saw that their app said something like "video game tournament" and got suspicious. I'm disappointed in this too but overblowing this issue into "America is terrible rah rah rah" doesn't help anybody.
I was really looking forward to seeing these guys play.
Hopefully Blizzard can get in touch with whoever needs to be convinced - it's pretty hard to deny that they genuinely are going to play at a tournament set up by a multi-billion dollar company with plenty of publicity if you spend even five minutes researching it.
Administrative Officer looks at application. Thinks:
"All the way across the Pacific for a computer game? They must be making this up."
"Even if they aren't, why risk the possibility that they will become Illegal immigrants? After all, if their only skill is computer games, then I don't want them here."
PETITION DENIED
I don't know. Maybe it goes like that, especially since they're from China, a place a lot of people would like to escape, especially kids who spend a lot of time in front of a computer and see how good US of America has it politically and socially.
Sad times. Can they not go with the #2 or #3 player? Seems lame to just completely leave China out. (I know it says unknown in the OP, was wondering if any other news on it had come out since).
On September 22 2011 01:29 Roggay wrote: I hope Blizzard can do something, they should be able to justify the visa, especially because Activision-Blizzard is so big.
Even having a sponsor internal to the US isn't guaranteed to get the application approved regardless of how large the corporation is.
It's a shame that esports isn't big enough yet for them to be considered professional athletes. If they were this certainly wouldn't be a problem (have you ever heard of an US Open player being denied a VISA?).
On the other hand, i understand why the US custom regulations have to be harsh, illegal immigrants are a big problem, and there is a fairly sizeable chinese minority already in place in the USA.
I hope Blizzard-Activision helps them, or at least sorts out some kind of solution for such problems in the future. Considering how big a market China is for them, it shouldn't be impossible to invest into a staffer who tries to sort out such problems ahead of time.
I don't understand why it's so hard to get visas to the US. Even TB didn't get in, and I doubt USA get a huge amount of illigal immigrants from England. Seems like such a closed country really. Norway have a shitload of illigal immigrants aswell (at least if you compare it to how few people actually live here) but it's not hard to get into the country if you have papers that prove that you are who you are and you got a job of some sorts.
On September 22 2011 02:01 Sandro wrote: Maybe the US thought they were Chinese spies? Doesn't China do a lot of cyberhacking?
I don't know if China does a lot of cyberhacking or not, but what I do know is that cyberhacking doesn't require the person hacking to be in the same country as what he's hacking. That's kinda the point.
On September 22 2011 01:49 Tula wrote: It's a shame that esports isn't big enough yet for them to be considered professional athletes. If they were this certainly wouldn't be a problem (have you ever heard of an US Open player being denied a VISA?).
On the other hand, i understand why the US custom regulations have to be harsh, illegal immigrants are a big problem, and there is a fairly sizeable chinese minority already in place in the USA.
I hope Blizzard-Activision helps them, or at least sorts out some kind of solution for such problems in the future. Considering how big a market China is for them, it shouldn't be impossible to invest into a staffer who tries to sort out such problems ahead of time.
There's numerous reports every year of players either going Canada to US, Europe to US or Russia to US having issues with VISAs when they join NHL teams. They eventually get pushed through (expedited by the NHL as a rule of thumb) but even here, it's not a guaranteed thing they'll be granted one right away, though never heard of a not at all case.
It's not really that surprising if you look at the history of Chinese gamers and international events, this has happened so many times through the years. Unfortunate though to not see any representatives from a, hopefully, rising scene. XiGua especially seem like an interesting player.
On September 20 2011 22:33 Liquid`Jinro wrote: I dont get why it would be that level of difficult to enter the US as a Chinese citizen.. China is supposed to be the communist nation that is hard to enter, yet you dont often hear of americans denied visas to China -_-
It's been more difficult in general to enter the US since 9/11, but with China, in particular, it has to do with the perceived threat of illegal immigration, and that unlike most countries in Europe, as well as Japan and Korea, China isn't an US ally and thus does not have VISA waivers.
On September 22 2011 04:18 hahaimhenry wrote: i find it funny that chinese people can't travel to america because of visa problems lol
im chinese, don't think i'm racist.
There are some cases where 6 months / 7 months pregnant Chinese women (with clothings that can cover their belly) seeking to travel to USA so they can give birth to their children there. Chinese will always be Chinese
On September 22 2011 01:49 Tula wrote: It's a shame that esports isn't big enough yet for them to be considered professional athletes. If they were this certainly wouldn't be a problem (have you ever heard of an US Open player being denied a VISA?).
On the other hand, i understand why the US custom regulations have to be harsh, illegal immigrants are a big problem, and there is a fairly sizeable chinese minority already in place in the USA.
I hope Blizzard-Activision helps them, or at least sorts out some kind of solution for such problems in the future. Considering how big a market China is for them, it shouldn't be impossible to invest into a staffer who tries to sort out such problems ahead of time.
There's numerous reports every year of players either going Canada to US, Europe to US or Russia to US having issues with VISAs when they join NHL teams. They eventually get pushed through (expedited by the NHL as a rule of thumb) but even here, it's not a guaranteed thing they'll be granted one right away, though never heard of a not at all case.
This happened a lot in baseball as well. The reason being after post-9/11 the screening became more intense and it turns out international baseball players like to lie about their age and such. But having a sanctioned international body and powerful domestic organization for these sports helps a lot with getting these visa issues cleared up.
On September 22 2011 04:18 hahaimhenry wrote: i find it funny that chinese people can't travel to america because of visa problems lol
im chinese, don't think i'm racist.
There are some cases where 6 months / 7 months pregnant Chinese women (with clothings that can cover their belly) seeking to travel to USA so they can give birth to their children there. Chinese will always be Chinese
This practice isn't exclusive to Chinese immigrants. People who want to enter the US will think up sneaky ways to do that. Chinese illegals are higher profile, but it's not even the top non-Latin American source of illegal immigration (according to the Dept of Homeland Security).
To all those slightly unaware of how travel VISA situation works for Chinese citizens.
VISAs are all issued by the PRC's government. All mainland Chinese citizen's must apply for a travel VISA should they wish to travel/study outside of the PRC. The VISA is required to pass China's border security and without it no Chinese citizen travel abroad.
This has nothing to do with the US government like some uninformed people are posturing. It is an issue with the PRC's VISA issuing government department and their rejection of XiGua's and Uhen's applications for unknown reasons.
On September 22 2011 04:51 GhoSt[shield] wrote: To all those slightly unaware of how travel VISA situation works for Chinese citizens.
VISAs are all issued by the PRC's government. All mainland Chinese citizen's must apply for a travel VISA should they wish to travel/study outside of the PRC. The VISA is required to pass China's border security and without it no Chinese citizen travel abroad.
This has nothing to do with the US government like some uninformed people are posturing. It is an issue with the PRC's VISA issuing government department and their rejection of XiGua's and Uhen's applications for unknown reasons.
VISAs to the US are obtained from the US embassy, which isn't a branch of the PRC government AFAIK.
For kicks, here's the official FAQ from the US embassy in China for seekers of non-immigrant VISAs:
How do you decide whether or not to issue a visa?
Section 214(b) of the U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Act states: Every alien is presumed to be an immigrant until he establishes to the satisfaction of the consular officer, at the time of application for admission, that he is entitled to nonimmigrant status... To qualify for non-immigrant visas, applicants must meet the requirements of U.S. immigration law. Failure to do so will result in a refusal of a visa under Section 214(b). The most frequent basis for such a refusal is failure to overcome the requirement that applicants must possess a residence abroad he/she has no intention of abandoning. Applicants prove the existence of such residence by demonstrating that they have ties abroad that would compel them to leave the U.S. at the end of their temporary stay. The law places this burden of proof on each individual applicant. back to top
Why does the U.S. have such strict visa laws?
The United States is an open society. Unlike many other countries, the United States does not impose internal controls on visitors, such as registration with local authorities. In order to enjoy the privilege of unencumbered travel in the United States, foreigners have a responsibility to prove they are going to return abroad before a visitor or student visa is issued. Our immigration law requires consular officers to view every visa applicant as an intending immigrant until the applicant proves otherwise. back to top
What are strong ties?
Strong ties differ from country to country, city to city, individual to individual. "Ties" are the various aspects of a person's life that bind them to their country or residence: possessions, employment, social and family relationships. Some examples of ties can be a person's job and income, a house or apartment, a car, close family relationships, bank accounts, etc. Consular officers are trained to look at each application individually and consider professional, social, cultural and other factors. With younger applicants who may not have had an opportunity to form many ties, consular officers may look at the applicant's specific intentions, family situations and long-range plans and prospects within his or her country of residence. Each case is examined individually and is accorded every consideration under the law. back to top
Why do all the refused applicants get the same letter of explanation as to why they were refused?
In most cases where an applicant is refused a visa, the applicant fails to show that he or she has strong enough ties outside the U.S. to convince the officer that the applicant will depart the United States after a temporary period. Many refused applicants believe there is a special document or a special way to answer questions that will enable them to successfully reapply for a visa days or weeks later. However, as the problem for applicants refused under section 214(b) lies in their overall situation, no single answer or document exists which would prove satisfactory in all cases. Applicants are encouraged to reapply only when their overall circumstances have changed. For example, an unemployed recent graduate may decide to reapply following a sustained period of steady employment. back to top
Why are the visa interviews so short?
Visa officers handle thousands of applications every year. Based on this experience, they are able to quickly review the application form and supporting documents in order to narrow the range in which questions may need to be asked. Keep in mind, much of the necessary information required to make a decision is already supplied on the application form itself, so there is usually no need for the officer to ask more than a few additional questions. back to top
When I applied for a visa, I told the officer I would return to China after a short stay in the U.S. Why didn't the officer believe me?
Visa officers are required to evaluate the applicants overall situation in reaching a decision. Statements indicating that the applicant intends to return to China are helpful, but under the requirements of U.S. law the statement alone is not adequate to show that they qualify for a visa. back to top
Is a refusal under Section 214(b) permanent?
No. If an applicant has new information which was not presented to the interviewing officer at the time of the first application, or if the applicants overall circumstances have changed significantly since the last application, a new application is appropriate and will be duly considered. back to top
How long do refused applicants have to wait before reapplying?
There is no time restriction on resubmitting an application after a refusal. If additional information or supporting documentation is available which may further demonstrate an applicant’s qualifications for a visa, an application may be resubmitted. back to top
I have a letter (or fax) I would like the officer to read to better understand my situation and my strong ties to China. Can I send it to you so you can read it in advance of my interview?
Any information which is relevant to the visa application should be brought to the interview. Mailing information to the Embassy in advance will not be helpful. The visa interview is the proper setting for the officer to consider all information. back to top
I brought all my documents, but my application was refused anyway. What else should I bring?
The problem is not the documents. Rather, the applicants’ current overall situation (as supported by those documents) was not adequate to overcome the presumption that he or she is an intending immigrant. Remember, U.S. law says that all applicants for nonimmigrant visas are intending immigrant until they show that their overall circumstances would be adequate to compel their return home after visiting the U.S. back to top
What can I do if I have a complaint about the manner in which my case has been handled?
The Embassy does not have sufficient resources to meet with every interested party who wishes to discuss a visa case with a consular officer. Therefore, we do not arrange meetings to discuss individual visa cases. However, all visa applicants are entitled to courteous, efficient, and consistent treatment. If an applicant feels they were treated improperly during the processing of a visa application, a letter should be written to the Embassy describing the circumstances. All legitimate concerns will be investigated and corrective action taken where justified. Our fax number is (86-10) 8531-3333.
As for whether Americans can help (yeah they actually have a section on this):
Can My American Friend Help?
I have letters of guarantee that I will return to China. Why isn't that considered to be enough proof that I actually will return?
A guarantee letter, like other forms of written documentation, will be considered by the interviewing officer. However, a letter, by itself, does not establish the applicant's ties to a permanent residence outside of the United States. Similarly, pledges from highly placed persons that an applicant will return to China do not automatically enable the applicant to overcome section 214(b). This is because U.S. law does not permit visa officers to delegate to others their authority to evaluate the applicant's actual overall circumstances.
If I am refused a visa, would it help to have a high ranking official or an American friend contact the Embassy?
No. United States law assigns the responsibility for issuance or refusal of visas to consular officers overseas. They have the final say on all visa cases. Additionally, United States law is designed to insulate the decisions in visa cases from outside influences. An applicant can influence a reversal of a prior refusal only through presentation of new convincing evidence of strong ties.
American Citizen Hour for Non-Immigrant Visa Inquiries
U.S. citizens wishing to ask questions regarding the visa process may meet with a member of the Non-Immigrant Visa Unit staff every Monday between 4:00 pm and 5:00 pm, except U.S. and Chinese holidays. All Americans present at the U.S. Embassy Beijing’s Consular Entrance, located at No. 55 An Jia Lou Road, Beijing, China 100600, at 4 pm will be able to speak to a staff member that day; no one will be admitted after 4:15 pm. Please bring your U.S. passport for entrance into the non-immigrant visa unit.
These sessions are designed to be informational only and are not an opportunity to submit a visa application or to re-adjudicate a prior refusal. Before attending the American Citizen hour, please consult the information on our website, and our Frequently Asked Questions. Americans and others may also send questions, including case-specific inquiries, via e-mail to ciubeijing@state.gov. There is also considerable information on visa issues available at the Department of State’s Consular Affairs website, http://www.travel.state.gov/.
Please note that Embassy Beijing only issues non- immigrant visas. Please check the U.S. Consulate General in Guangzhou’s website, http://guangzhou.usembassy-china.org.cn/, for information on immigrant visas.
I read a lot of stuff about chinese not getting Visa for the US etc.. But oh boy, if u think its easy to get a visa for china, I mean sometimes its quite easy, and you just walk to the border, and pay a few yuan and get 5 days in china, but the the rules change from day to day. If there are any kind of Asian games/sports held it becomes nearly impossible for certain passport holders, while other can go through just fine. My point being, this most certainly has something to do with some Chinese regulation, as someone posted above me. It isn't always as easy to travel in or out of China for that matter, as people would make it sound.
On September 20 2011 23:46 Shen_ wrote: China loves making it hard to leave China....because people often don't want to go back. This isn't unique to e-sports.
have u ever been to china? its a great place to live and has its pros and cons when compred to the US. get your borderline racist comments out of here.
On September 20 2011 23:46 Shen_ wrote: China loves making it hard to leave China....because people often don't want to go back. This isn't unique to e-sports.
have u ever been to china? its a great place to live and has its pros and cons when compred to the US. get your borderline racist comments out of here.
It's interesting to me to see most of the people who are surprised have non-U.S. countriest listed as their location, while most of the people who are like *shrug, happens all the time* are from the U.S. I get the feeling foreigners have a conception of the U.S. government that is far more competent and far less paranoid than the conception U.S. citizens have of their own government.
On September 22 2011 04:51 GhoSt[shield] wrote: To all those slightly unaware of how travel VISA situation works for Chinese citizens.
VISAs are all issued by the PRC's government. All mainland Chinese citizen's must apply for a travel VISA should they wish to travel/study outside of the PRC. The VISA is required to pass China's border security and without it no Chinese citizen travel abroad.
This has nothing to do with the US government like some uninformed people are posturing. It is an issue with the PRC's VISA issuing government department and their rejection of XiGua's and Uhen's applications for unknown reasons.
What? This has everything to do with the US... I deal with international students from China on a weekly basis so I'm pretty sure that you're the uninformed one here...
On September 22 2011 04:51 GhoSt[shield] wrote: To all those slightly unaware of how travel VISA situation works for Chinese citizens.
VISAs are all issued by the PRC's government. All mainland Chinese citizen's must apply for a travel VISA should they wish to travel/study outside of the PRC. The VISA is required to pass China's border security and without it no Chinese citizen travel abroad.
This has nothing to do with the US government like some uninformed people are posturing. It is an issue with the PRC's VISA issuing government department and their rejection of XiGua's and Uhen's applications for unknown reasons.
I doubt if you really actually applied for a visa, to any country that requires it. Visa's are issued by the citizen's destination country, the origin country only gives its citizen passports, which typically requires no complicated process and no rejections.
On September 22 2011 04:18 hahaimhenry wrote: i find it funny that chinese people can't travel to america because of visa problems lol
im chinese, don't think i'm racist.
There are some cases where 6 months / 7 months pregnant Chinese women (with clothings that can cover their belly) seeking to travel to USA so they can give birth to their children there. Chinese will always be Chinese
at least these "illegals" who sneak into the US and do these births have money and contribute to the economy which is more than i can say for some US citizens. and at least their method of entering US is better than colonialism from the "American" ancestors.
Can we start banning posts made by people acting like experts which are blatantly wrong? I have no idea how travel works (not an adult never handled it) and misinformation is really not helpful.
On September 22 2011 06:10 zev318 wrote: i've had relatives visit the states on one of those tours and then they bailed and never left lol. not from china tho, but its the same thing
I bet they're terrible people who freeload off the government and mass produce kids that fill up the public schools too. That's what illegal immigrants do right?
Visa applications have everything to do with politics, and the US gov is particularly prone to overblown paranoia. (See the LOL worthy reactions to the Aircraft Carrier that just launched). It's disappointing that people who would have a legitimate reason to visit, and entertain/enrich our society are denied access because of top-level political pissing contests. It's unlikely to change, and as an SC2 fan, that's a bummer.
On September 22 2011 06:03 Redmark wrote: Can we start banning posts made by people acting like experts which are blatantly wrong? I have no idea how travel works (not an adult never handled it) and misinformation is really not helpful.
For the countries I was it works like this (bunch of european ones, Turkye, South Korea):
I go to the Airport. Show my passport. Fly Show my passport Leave the Airport.
Now.... if you want to go to the US... You will basically get anal raped by various ranges of burocracy depending on the country you are from and how "nice" the US thinks of it .
We can all thank our muckraking, xenophobic press for misinforming the American public on the benefits of issuing work visas. To everyone reading this thread, remember this when someone tries to scare you into voting for protectionist policies/politicians.
It has a quite a bit to do with mutual political conflicts between countries. The problems here are most likely coming from the American side in issuing visas. It's similar with Russia. It's hell for an American to apply for a Russian visa (I haven't done it, but have known people who have had to go there on business assignments) because of the Russian side, while it's the same (if not harder) the other way around because US and Russia aren't exactly too friendly.
With China-US, China just seems to be more impartial in giving visas which is why it's generally a lot easier to get a visa from China than the other way around. And yes, visas come from the destination nation, so the fact that those Chinese players can't get visas has to do with the American side. Oh well :S.
On September 20 2011 22:33 Liquid`Jinro wrote: I dont get why it would be that level of difficult to enter the US as a Chinese citizen.. China is supposed to be the communist nation that is hard to enter, yet you dont often hear of americans denied visas to China -_-
Actually it's hilariously hard to get a VISA to go to China. I've only been a few times for business related activities (these clear very quickly) but the VISAs are very restrictive and in my case I was required to have extensive documentation for exactly what I'd be doing while I was there and was given a strict time window for how long I'd be able to stay in the country.
I think you don't hear about problems getting to China because nothing really happens over there ESPORTS wise. As an addendum I'd add that China is very good about getting people into the country who are doing something productive or image-related for them (business related, Olympics, I'd imagine WCG when it was hosted there).
On September 22 2011 06:03 Redmark wrote: Can we start banning posts made by people acting like experts which are blatantly wrong? I have no idea how travel works (not an adult never handled it) and misinformation is really not helpful.
Now.... if you want to go to the US... You will basically get anal raped by various ranges of burocracy depending on the country you are from and how "nice" the US thinks of it .
I wouldn't personally call it so much beaurocracy as I would call it a genuine fear of foreigners brought on by a country traumatized by 9/11, and a political class (which includes the media) that seeks to take advantage of that trauma for their own gain.
On September 22 2011 01:49 Tula wrote: It's a shame that esports isn't big enough yet for them to be considered professional athletes. If they were this certainly wouldn't be a problem (have you ever heard of an US Open player being denied a VISA?).
On the other hand, i understand why the US custom regulations have to be harsh, illegal immigrants are a big problem, and there is a fairly sizeable chinese minority already in place in the USA.
I hope Blizzard-Activision helps them, or at least sorts out some kind of solution for such problems in the future. Considering how big a market China is for them, it shouldn't be impossible to invest into a staffer who tries to sort out such problems ahead of time.
There's numerous reports every year of players either going Canada to US, Europe to US or Russia to US having issues with VISAs when they join NHL teams. They eventually get pushed through (expedited by the NHL as a rule of thumb) but even here, it's not a guaranteed thing they'll be granted one right away, though never heard of a not at all case.
that's kind of what i meant. If a big athelete (or a player for a big club) gets such problems, the club or sports association tries (and usually succeeds) to sort them out. With esports we lack the clout necessary to do something like that.
Maybe Blizzard has the necessary clout but so far, they haven't used it (e.g. Bratok NASL problems).
On September 22 2011 06:22 JudicatorHammurabi wrote: It has a quite a bit to do with mutual political conflicts between countries. The problems here are most likely coming from the American side in issuing visas. It's similar with Russia. It's hell for an American to apply for a Russian visa (I haven't done it, but have known people who have had to go there on business assignments) because of the Russian side, while it's the same (if not harder) the other way around because US and Russia aren't exactly too friendly.
With China-US, China just seems to be more impartial in giving visas which is why it's generally a lot easier to get a visa from China than the other way around. And yes, visas come from the destination nation, so the fact that those Chinese players can't get visas has to do with the American side. Oh well :S.
The mutual conflict is Americans afraid of Chinese players stomping their American counterparts
On September 22 2011 04:51 GhoSt[shield] wrote: To all those slightly unaware of how travel VISA situation works for Chinese citizens.
VISAs are all issued by the PRC's government. All mainland Chinese citizen's must apply for a travel VISA should they wish to travel/study outside of the PRC. The VISA is required to pass China's border security and without it no Chinese citizen travel abroad.
This has nothing to do with the US government like some uninformed people are posturing. It is an issue with the PRC's VISA issuing government department and their rejection of XiGua's and Uhen's applications for unknown reasons.
I doubt if you really actually applied for a visa, to any country that requires it. Visa's are issued by the citizen's destination country, the origin country only gives its citizen passports, which typically requires no complicated process and no rejections.
actually you are both correct :D In olden days (something you are likely not to remember, and something i have only learned about in history) when Visa's were invented you had to get one from both the country you are leaving as well as the country you are entering. Nowadays most countries (frankly i thought it was all of them) only care who is entering not where their citizens are going.
Maybe China is still one of the countries who expects their citizens to ask for permission to leave the country, frankly i don't know so i will bow to the superior knowledge (at least i hope it's knowledge and not a guess) of the poster prior to you.
On September 22 2011 07:10 Tula wrote: Maybe China is still one of the countries who expects their citizens to ask for permission to leave the country, frankly i don't know so i will bow to the superior knowledge (at least i hope it's knowledge and not a guess) of the poster prior to you.
Green cards are the best, go US<=>China w/o Visa or anything, plane ticket and that's it
makes me wonder why some Chinese immigrants want citizenship so bad
Its good for esports. Let Blizzard and their teams sort it out with the embassy here. This is a small event that will mark lots of changes in the coming future.
On September 20 2011 22:33 Liquid`Jinro wrote: I dont get why it would be that level of difficult to enter the US as a Chinese citizen.. China is supposed to be the communist nation that is hard to enter, yet you dont often hear of americans denied visas to China -_-
The reason is very simple. Because US bureaucracy is horrible and way behind the times. That America shoots itself in the foot to deny tourists $$$$ out of the stupid fear of "taking American jobs that no one else wants" is retarded to say the least.
You are correct in that there's no "logical" reason why this should be the case. What? They fear Xigua will take Idra's job as America's BM zerg player and put Idra out of a job? It's ludicrous, but that's actually their fear.
I literally laughed out loud at the stupidity of this post, good education system they got in China. hahahaha
On September 22 2011 01:49 Tula wrote: It's a shame that esports isn't big enough yet for them to be considered professional athletes. If they were this certainly wouldn't be a problem (have you ever heard of an US Open player being denied a VISA?).
On the other hand, i understand why the US custom regulations have to be harsh, illegal immigrants are a big problem, and there is a fairly sizeable chinese minority already in place in the USA.
I hope Blizzard-Activision helps them, or at least sorts out some kind of solution for such problems in the future. Considering how big a market China is for them, it shouldn't be impossible to invest into a staffer who tries to sort out such problems ahead of time.
There's numerous reports every year of players either going Canada to US, Europe to US or Russia to US having issues with VISAs when they join NHL teams. They eventually get pushed through (expedited by the NHL as a rule of thumb) but even here, it's not a guaranteed thing they'll be granted one right away, though never heard of a not at all case.
that's kind of what i meant. If a big athelete (or a player for a big club) gets such problems, the club or sports association tries (and usually succeeds) to sort them out. With esports we lack the clout necessary to do something like that.
Maybe Blizzard has the necessary clout but so far, they haven't used it (e.g. Bratok NASL problems).
Blizzard is nowhere near the size and power of the companies behind nation/international sports. Traveling is a shitty situation over here in the US since 9/11 and Blizzard is most definitely not influential enough to change this.
On September 20 2011 22:33 Liquid`Jinro wrote: I dont get why it would be that level of difficult to enter the US as a Chinese citizen.. China is supposed to be the communist nation that is hard to enter, yet you dont often hear of americans denied visas to China -_-
The reason is very simple. Because US bureaucracy is horrible and way behind the times. That America shoots itself in the foot to deny tourists $$$$ out of the stupid fear of "taking American jobs that no one else wants" is retarded to say the least.
You are correct in that there's no "logical" reason why this should be the case. What? They fear Xigua will take Idra's job as America's BM zerg player and put Idra out of a job? It's ludicrous, but that's actually their fear.
I literally laughed out loud at the stupidity of this post, good education system they got in China. hahahaha
Haha yea that post made me laugh to. Someone from China talking about behind the times governments lol.
You know the Ugandan little league baseball team, which qualified for the little league world series had their Visas denied due to information inconsistencies and incomplete paperwork. If you don't have all the required information supplied with verification, you aren't getting the Visas. Also, show up for your interview.
On September 22 2011 06:03 Redmark wrote: Can we start banning posts made by people acting like experts which are blatantly wrong? I have no idea how travel works (not an adult never handled it) and misinformation is really not helpful.
For the countries I was it works like this (bunch of european ones, Turkye, South Korea):
I go to the Airport. Show my passport. Fly Show my passport Leave the Airport.
Now.... if you want to go to the US... You will basically get anal raped by various ranges of burocracy depending on the country you are from and how "nice" the US thinks of it .
National security son! Gotta keep them suspicious places in check 'cause you never know when one might try to send a spy or a terrorist over. It pays to be a winner and when you're on top you got a lot of BAD people out there trying to do harm or harbor evil-doers with which to inflict harm against you! Obviously you non-history makers need not worry about the threat we face, although we urge you to tighten up your own security as well.
On September 20 2011 23:26 Velr wrote: They should just stop with these kind of events in the US and instead do them in Asia/EU wherever they don't have as moronic Visa processes (wich is probably about everywhere else except for some of the harshest dictatorships on the planet)...
Says the man from Switzerland, which has the hardest visa process in Schengen Europe, and a country under investigation for violating their Schengen obligations.
You're right though. Some major academic conferences have already pulled away from the U.S. because researchers were regularly being denied entry to present their papers. America no longer wants to be the leading nation in science apparently.
Edit: I suppose I should mention that I worked in the Swiss university system for almost seven years, and come from a US academic background, so I'm far too familiar with both visa systems. The Swiss system is much, much better than the American system, but it's still very prejudicial based on origin.
On September 21 2011 02:15 Hikari wrote: wow what? denied instantly? US doesnt like chinese visitors? Weird, maybe they should try again another day and ask for a reason for the decline.
The US never gives a precise reason for declining a visa. This would allow the applicant to fix the problem.
I don't really care to be completly honest. Because the truth is that chineese players are not very skilled. That's only because they got the game almost a year after everyone else. So it's understandable.
I count on the chineese to do well to next blizzcon when they have had much more time to practise.
This is good for two reasons: (1) This protects American jobs by making sure that Freedom lovers have a better chance at a greater portion of the prize pool. (2) Industrial espionage; Two chinese progamers would sneak into the country and steal all of our secrets. All of them. Including how to get your domestic PvT record > 50%
On September 24 2011 05:31 Sabu113 wrote: This is good for two reasons: (1) This protects American jobs by making sure that Freedom lovers have a better chance at a greater portion of the prize pool. (2) Industrial espionage; Two chinese progamers would sneak into the country and steal all of our secrets. All of them. Including how to get your domestic PvT record > 50%
#2 made me giggle.
I think blizzard may be able to aid the issue, I believe they've done it in the past (i think it was Dimaga? that they helped with visa problems? I DONT KNOW I THOUGHT I REMEMBERED SOMETHING LIKE THIS DONT SHOOT ME IF IM TOTALLY WRONG.)
On September 24 2011 05:26 DrPhilOfdOOm wrote: I don't really care to be completly honest. Because the truth is that chineese players are not very skilled. That's only because they got the game almost a year after everyone else. So it's understandable.
I count on the chineese to do well to next blizzcon when they have had much more time to practise.
We all want to see them at an international event so we can properly gauge their skill. All we have right now is the CPL and I don't think top players like Xigua were available to play in that.
Its a shame, hopefully it can get sorted out. Otherwise I wonder what they'll do with the remaining places, I hope they invite the next 2 players in the GSL rankings, which I thinkare MC and then Polt or MK (or Thorzain for coming 3rd at the EU invitational).
On September 24 2011 05:26 DrPhilOfdOOm wrote: I don't really care to be completly honest. Because the truth is that chineese players are not very skilled. That's only because they got the game almost a year after everyone else. So it's understandable.
I count on the chineese to do well to next blizzcon when they have had much more time to practise.
Huh? They've been playing since the beta and the only major international tournament I can think of that there were a decent amount of Chinese players involved in they were able to knock out NesTea, Dimaga, MarineKing, Idra and a bunch more good players. It was mostly online, sure, but that's all the more reason to see how they shape up on LAN because, based on the limited data we, have they could be the second best country in the world.
On September 24 2011 05:26 DrPhilOfdOOm wrote: I don't really care to be completly honest. Because the truth is that chineese players are not very skilled. That's only because they got the game almost a year after everyone else. So it's understandable.
I count on the chineese to do well to next blizzcon when they have had much more time to practise.
Most of the top Chinese players have been playing with Koreans since the Beta.
Last Blizzcon, a Chinese player got silver to the winning Korean, and in the only major international tournament to include more than a handful of Chinese players, the semifinals consisted of MC and three Chinese players.
They haven't logged significant results at lans, but from what little they've shown, the top Chinese players (mostly ex top tier War3 pros) are extremely skilled.
Many Korean invites to StarsWar even said that the Chinese players were on par with top Koreans.
On September 20 2011 22:33 Liquid`Jinro wrote: I dont get why it would be that level of difficult to enter the US as a Chinese citizen.. China is supposed to be the communist nation that is hard to enter, yet you dont often hear of americans denied visas to China -_-
That's because the US is a tyrannical police state. It's just thinly veiled, unlike China.
On September 24 2011 06:27 purecarnagge wrote: once you get a visa...its good for years..once you activate it. so there is really no reason for this happen if your an international pro player.
Not true, unless you are talking about certain types of work visas. However, if you succeed in getting a visa once, the process is fast-tracked for future applications, and is much less likely to be denied. So, it can feel like you have a permanent visa, but the paper work remains necessary.
This really freaking sucks, you always here how large and talented the Chinese gamer base is. I really really wanted to see how the best the Chinese had to offer would stack up against the rest of the world since they usually don't get nearly as much exposure as EU/NA/KR players. Very disappointed.
Chinese is famous with getting pregnant and travel to US to bear their children so they could get US citizenship. Not too surprise how hard it is to get VISA from these country.
If you're surprised , wake d f up. I'd prefer communist china over faschist america any day of the month. Every poker player has been a55fooked by america several times in the last few years. Cannot wait for that evil empire to fail. Why don't they have blizzcon in holland or some reasonably civilized country?
On September 24 2011 09:46 oZe wrote: If you're surprised , wake d f up. I'd prefer communist china over faschist america any day of the month. Every poker player has been a55fooked by america several times in the last few years. Cannot wait for that evil empire to fail. Why don't they have blizzcon in holland or some reasonably civilized country?
Because Blizzard has its offices in the US :D
I wonder if Blizzard has even considered a Blizzcon in France haha, after all Vivendi is a french company no?
On September 24 2011 09:42 tuho12345 wrote: Mexicans are famous with getting pregnant and travel to US to bear their children so they could get US citizenship. Not too surprise how hard it is to get VISA from these country.
On September 24 2011 09:42 tuho12345 wrote: Mexicans are famous with getting pregnant and travel to US to bear their children so they could get US citizenship. Not too surprise how hard it is to get VISA from these country.
fixed.
Mexican doesn't need to travel to US -___- They just need to jump over the fences.
This is a very disappointing scenario, I hear great things about these Chinese players, and yet they get little to no exposure to the e-sports scene because of issues like this.
I highly doubt professional gamers pose any national security threat, seriously.
On September 24 2011 09:42 tuho12345 wrote: Mexicans are famous with getting pregnant and travel to US to bear their children so they could get US citizenship. Not too surprise how hard it is to get VISA from these country.
fixed.
It sounds really far fetched, but it's true. Once the kid turns 18 he/she can apply for citizenship for their parents.
On September 20 2011 22:33 Liquid`Jinro wrote: I dont get why it would be that level of difficult to enter the US as a Chinese citizen.. China is supposed to be the communist nation that is hard to enter, yet you dont often hear of americans denied visas to China -_-
The reason is very simple. Because US bureaucracy is horrible and way behind the times. That America shoots itself in the foot to deny tourists $$$$ out of the stupid fear of "taking American jobs that no one else wants" is retarded to say the least.
You are correct in that there's no "logical" reason why this should be the case. What? They fear Xigua will take Idra's job as America's BM zerg player and put Idra out of a job? It's ludicrous, but that's actually their fear.
I literally laughed out loud at the stupidity of this post, good education system they got in China. hahahaha
Haha yea that post made me laugh to. Someone from China talking about behind the times governments lol.
And someone from US is proud of their government? O_o
I've heard up to 3-4 months for a US visa for a non-exempt country (Indian). This was after being accepted for a post-doc position at MIT. A conference I went to in the US this week had a lot of Chinese no shows because they couldn't get the visa in time. Luckily I have an Australian passport.
On September 20 2011 22:45 jackrandomsx wrote: Post 9/11 it's become very difficult to enter the US from any nation that doesnt have visa exemptions. it's terrible what's happened here.
which is strange because the states needs more money and chinese tourists spends the most
weird, being chinese but with an australian passport, i got my usa visa just fine. i doubt this was anything politically related....but who knows :S
Because Australia loyally followed America into Iraq George Bush created a whole slew of pro-Austarlia immigration regulations. For example, Australia is the only country in the world whose citizens, if they find a job in America, can simply pack up and move without any further applications. Even Canadians, despite being members of NAFTA, dont get the same level of employment openness.
On September 24 2011 09:46 oZe wrote: If you're surprised , wake d f up. I'd prefer communist china over faschist america any day of the month. Every poker player has been a55fooked by america several times in the last few years. Cannot wait for that evil empire to fail. Why don't they have blizzcon in holland or some reasonably civilized country?
On September 20 2011 22:33 Liquid`Jinro wrote: I dont get why it would be that level of difficult to enter the US as a Chinese citizen.. China is supposed to be the communist nation that is hard to enter, yet you dont often hear of americans denied visas to China -_-
It's the other way around, it will be hard to enter a country when you live or originate in a communist country. Ofc you wouldn't know coz switz has always been the "neutral" country :D
On September 20 2011 22:33 Liquid`Jinro wrote: I dont get why it would be that level of difficult to enter the US as a Chinese citizen.. China is supposed to be the communist nation that is hard to enter, yet you dont often hear of americans denied visas to China -_-
It's the other way around, it will be hard to enter a country when you live or originate in a communist country. Ofc you wouldn't know coz switz has always been the "neutral" country :D
The question "Have you ever been a member of a Communist Party" or something to that effect is still on the US citizenship application.
On September 20 2011 22:33 Liquid`Jinro wrote: I dont get why it would be that level of difficult to enter the US as a Chinese citizen.. China is supposed to be the communist nation that is hard to enter, yet you dont often hear of americans denied visas to China -_-
It's the other way around, it will be hard to enter a country when you live or originate in a communist country. Ofc you wouldn't know coz switz has always been the "neutral" country :D
On September 20 2011 22:33 Liquid`Jinro wrote: I dont get why it would be that level of difficult to enter the US as a Chinese citizen.. China is supposed to be the communist nation that is hard to enter, yet you dont often hear of americans denied visas to China -_-
It's the other way around, it will be hard to enter a country when you live or originate in a communist country. Ofc you wouldn't know coz switz has always been the "neutral" country :D
Hmm, I'm quite ignorant of the Chinese SC2 scene. I loved Legend/Super/F91/PJ back in brood war, and I only know LoveTT and xiaOt in SC2, and I only know their names rather than their game. That's really unfortunate, I hope that in the future they can get some more exposure. Maybe I'm just ignorant of consistently featured Chinese players?
On September 20 2011 22:33 Liquid`Jinro wrote: I dont get why it would be that level of difficult to enter the US as a Chinese citizen.. China is supposed to be the communist nation that is hard to enter, yet you dont often hear of americans denied visas to China -_-
It's the other way around, it will be hard to enter a country when you live or originate in a communist country. Ofc you wouldn't know coz switz has always been the "neutral" country :D
Sweden is not Switzerland.
No it's not, but Sweden also likes to be neutral. Sweden sells weapons and when it's time to use them they don't particepate!
Update: Blizzard is in the process of helping the players applying for the visa for 2nd time, former BW-pro Toodming has successfully acquired his visa and Xigua, Uhen and Loner are underway, the players that get visa or finished higher in the qualifier will go to Anaheim Next Month
Never having seen a pro Chinese player compete I was extremely excited to see where they stand in the world of Starcraft 2 esports. This whole visa ordeal is pretty disappointing.
Shame to see such problems arise over and over again. Personally I think all US hosted tournaments should be boycotted in favor of bringing them over to countries who isn't so extremely paranoid about every single non western european trying to come visit for a few days.
On September 28 2011 02:24 digmouse wrote: Update: Blizzard is in the process of helping the players applying for the visa for 2nd time, former BW-pro Toodming has successfully acquired his visa and Xigua, Uhen and Loner are underway, the players that get visa or finished higher in the qualifier will go to Anaheim Next Month
I really hope this pans out...
China's eSports scene is huge - as big if not larger than Korea's as a whole (although centered around different games), but it's so insular. Any opportunity to see Chinese players of any eSport jump out into the rest of the foreign scene is always welcomed.
My brother works for CSIS (canadian version of the CIA). When I asked him about it, he said its because of the abnormally large amount of Chinese spies that enter Canada and the US for whatever reason. Apparently a big problem.
Getting Visas (he says) for chinese citizens is very difficult because he says that there is a serious problem with chinese espionage.
Disclaimer: My brother is a bit of an exagerater, and sometimes (see fairly often) is full of shit. So take it as you will.
Edit. He also says its when you have repeated short term entry visas in your history it flags you in the application. Which might explain why some pros are not getting access if they have been to the US before for short periods like gaming events and stuff.
But who knows, I really hope that isnt the reason ><
On September 28 2011 03:16 Darpa wrote: My brother works for CSIS (canadian version of the CIA). When I asked him about it, he said its because of the abnormally large amount of Chinese spies that enter Canada and the US for whatever reason. Apparently a big problem.
Getting Visas (he says) for chinese citizens is very difficult because he says that there is a serious problem with chinese espionage.
Disclaimer: My brother is a bit of an exagerater, and sometimes (see fairly often) is full of shit. So take it as you will.
Edit. He also says its when you have repeated short term entry visas in your history it flags you in the application. Which might explain why some pros are not getting access if they have been to the US before for short periods like gaming events and stuff.
But who knows, I really hope that isnt the reason ><
Not like they can do much spying when surrounded by thousands of people watching their every move, and confined to a video game competition.
On September 20 2011 22:33 Liquid`Jinro wrote: I dont get why it would be that level of difficult to enter the US as a Chinese citizen.. China is supposed to be the communist nation that is hard to enter, yet you dont often hear of americans denied visas to China -_-
It's the other way around, it will be hard to enter a country when you live or originate in a communist country. Ofc you wouldn't know coz switz has always been the "neutral" country :D
On September 24 2011 05:26 DrPhilOfdOOm wrote: I don't really care to be completly honest. Because the truth is that chineese players are not very skilled. That's only because they got the game almost a year after everyone else. So it's understandable.
I count on the chineese to do well to next blizzcon when they have had much more time to practise.
What's actually more true than not is that CN > NA, and this is considering that Warcraft 3 is still >>>>>>> SC2 in China as far as RTS games go. Where random Chinese players have competed, they've usually done well. They are pretty skilled.
If you look at NA where SC2 more popular than in any other region and see who's good, we really just have Huk, qxc, and Idra, and I'm not sure if Idra in his current huge slump can be included in there.
Why did blizzard even bother with a Chinese qualifier since the Chinese players were denied VISA? If I was in control of Blizzard I would seek guarantees from the authorities before I ventured in a Chinese qualifier. I hope Blizzard tried this but were still denied for some bureaucratic reasons.
A solution to this problem might be that they move Blizzcon to China since they are more open to immigrants or gamers. How do like that Anaheim?
On September 24 2011 05:26 DrPhilOfdOOm wrote: I don't really care to be completly honest. Because the truth is that chineese players are not very skilled. That's only because they got the game almost a year after everyone else. So it's understandable.
I count on the chineese to do well to next blizzcon when they have had much more time to practise.
What's actually more true than not is that CN > NA, and this is considering that Warcraft 3 is still >>>>>>> SC2 in China as far as RTS games go. Where random Chinese players have competed, they've usually done well. They are pretty skilled.
If you look at NA where SC2 more popular than in any other region and see who's good, we really just have Huk, qxc, and Idra, and I'm not sure if Idra in his current huge slump can be included in there.
No one really knows where China stands in SC2. You can't definitively say CN > NA.
On September 28 2011 03:16 Darpa wrote: My brother works for CSIS (canadian version of the CIA). When I asked him about it, he said its because of the abnormally large amount of Chinese spies that enter Canada and the US for whatever reason. Apparently a big problem.
Getting Visas (he says) for chinese citizens is very difficult because he says that there is a serious problem with chinese espionage.
Disclaimer: My brother is a bit of an exagerater, and sometimes (see fairly often) is full of shit. So take it as you will.
Edit. He also says its when you have repeated short term entry visas in your history it flags you in the application. Which might explain why some pros are not getting access if they have been to the US before for short periods like gaming events and stuff.
But who knows, I really hope that isnt the reason ><
It is exaggerated. Industrial esponiage is a big problem, but rather then flying all the way to the US or Canada the Chinese simply hack into the servers of mid-sized and even big companies.
On September 20 2011 23:37 Cold Warpgates wrote: Given that the chinese players only wanted to stay in the US for a few days to play in a video game tournament, the only problems I can see with their applications would be:
a) The visa officer suspected the chinese players of wanting to illegally stay in the US after their visa duration ended b) The chinese players were suspected of being dangerous to the US
or by far the most likely situation: c) Either the chinese players or the visa officers made a mistake and a perfectly acceptable visa application was rejected due to human error somewhere.
On September 24 2011 18:19 MacroNcheesE wrote: Hmm, I'm quite ignorant of the Chinese SC2 scene. I loved Legend/Super/F91/PJ back in brood war, and I only know LoveTT and xiaOt in SC2, and I only know their names rather than their game. That's really unfortunate, I hope that in the future they can get some more exposure. Maybe I'm just ignorant of consistently featured Chinese players?
Just summon those WCG memories of PJ, Legend, Lx, F91, Toodming. Now wait another 6 months for the Chinese to power up. They have all said in various interviews that they are happy to just "hide" and "wait out" SC2 in terms of the game stabilising etc. They are powering up by just training on the Kr ladder and with each other. They will only "come out" into the international scene when they can achieve a win-rate of 60%+ when playing amongst the best of the best.
TBH, I can see China dominating SC2 in a few years when WC3 declines even further. PJ, Lx, Toodming, F91 and the like were all BEASTS. They all went toe-to-toe with Jaedong/Bisu/Stork and didn't take one step back when facing off against the best of the best in SC:BW. Wouldn't be surprised if this is the case in SCII as well.
Such bullshit. I bet the guy saw computer gamer, though it's bullshit or wow, it says computer, he's a hacker, stamp NO.
There's a reason why I always turn down any ideas of going on a cross US trip, I want to visit the embassy for a visa exactly twice, for no more than 10 min each, once to apply, once to get it, preferably not have to wait half a year between visits. Until then someone else eats my hard earned cash, Turkey, Egypt, random other EU countries.
Hopefully Blizzard will make up for this mishap by throwing a huge SC2 tournament in China in early 2012. I'm hoping someday GSL/GSTL might have a finals there.
There's at least 1 representative in the form of Toodming at least. He's decent, and I hope either Macsed or Xigua get their visa applications done the second time.
My gosh. You know, I heard a good phrase that describes incidents like these pretty well. "Proud of my nation and ashamed of my government." Yeah that fits pretty well at the moment. At least we didn't lose too much. The players were good only as grandmasters, not pros. It probably would've just been an embarassment for them.
EPT
Toodming and 
Loner.
Hope they do end up getting it fixed though!
I wonder how many people check that box. But American visa system is rather bad as it depends a lot on subjective opinion of the guy deciding. If he does not like you that is enough reason to deny visa. It is still not as bad as I heard it is in Japan, but still.
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