|
|
On September 20 2011 23:54 wraggy1234 wrote:
To be fair, a contract is a contract and i dont care how old you are. you sign to play for someone
Man up and honour your contract.
Only in the case it's a valid contract and doesn't contain abusive clauses that void it... otherwise..
On September 20 2011 23:54 wraggy1234 wrote:
you shut up and do it. in 12 months, or when complexity decide they don't want you anymore, you can go back to your team.
Yeah, this description kind of sounds a bit like slavery no ?
|
On September 21 2011 00:08 jib60 wrote:
The case isn't complicated at all i could have solve it at the beginning of my first year as a law student
Even if i'm french I was glad tha stephano decided to join coL, but apparently, Complexity made stephano sign without even knowing fundamental principal of law, or deliberatly ignoring them,
Can you explain to me how exactly coL made Stephano sign the contract? Not sure if you're privy to something I'm not, but if he wasn't 100% sure about joining their team and everything the contract held him responsible for, he shouldn't have signed.
I don't really see why this lack of accountability is being defended so much. I don't care that he's 18 either, he's a professional just like anyone else. If he wants the benefits of being regarded as such he has to take on the additional responsibilities.
|
We all love Stephano still right 
|
let me educate you guys a little bit. Stephano is not interested in a career in eSports or Starcraft 2. Simple as that. He's taking a year off to play starcraft, get a bit of money before going to med school.
he was NEVER interested in pursuing the type of career HuK or Jinro are pursuing. Source is Stephano himself from Shethtiny stream-a-thon on Sheth's stream.
once again, Stephano is not planning to take eSports for a full time career, therefore, him staying with Millenium and staying in France makes more sense then signing with CoL.
plus, I'm happy that the so called 'American power house team' didnt get stephano, BTW read the OP again guys, Mill isnt some tiny shitty team no one's heard of, the site is the most visited western esports site after TL, they're sponsored by MSI which is not so no-name tiny company. So stop with the whole 'CoL is better then Millenium in every way' arguments
Hell, ToD went from Millenium, sponsored by MSI, to FnaticMSI ...
|
Must have been a bad day for Stephano ^^ Getting calls and mails all day long and being trahsed on all english boards
|
On September 21 2011 00:04 Ryder. wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 00:01 Merlimoo wrote:
Not the mention that he has previously said to Millenium that he will stay with them.
Even in the US, an oral contract, is a contract. So the Millenium one was beforehand and a work contract is not valid if the employee is already under contract. Case closed. Saying you will stay with them does not make it a contract :/ you need an intention to be legally bound, sufficient agreement on all important terms (consensus) and consideration (both parties need to gain something out of it). Please stop spamming this thread with nonsense :/
It's actually the one sensible thing he said : Stephano and M had an oral agreement about Stephano signing in the short future an employment contract with M, whose terms were already fixed. This might very well be enough to render coL contract void under any law, french or US one (even if I doubt it, but as we know, opinion != fact). So M didn't do anything wrong apart from fueling some internet flame (and coL didn't do anything wrong either, only part at fault is Stephano)
I have a question to you french guys that seem to be all over this thread. Where do you think Stephano will improve more in the future, at a french teamhouse or in Korea playing with the Col korean team?
If Stephano was happy in Millennium, why would he sign with Col in the first place?
Considering the thing Stephano wants atm (see a few posts above), he is right to stay in M. In M he'll be able to travel to most big EU events and some US ones. He'll even spend a few months in Korea.
If he wants to pursue a long time esports pro career after that, then it'll be time for him to reevaluate his needs and the team he is in.
|
On September 21 2011 00:07 hephaestos wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 23:24 mechavoc wrote:I was thinking the very same thing about the aw shucks he didn't mean to sign it, he is just a kid, it was late, he didn’t have a good night sleep, he didn’t sign with an EU approved felt pen made in France and dipped in Ink from Portugal so it means nothing apologists How about, he obviously did not fully wish to sign since he retracted the next day, and he certainly did not ask to engage in such a hurry, and he can make mistakes since he is young and plays starcraft 2 for a living. How can anyone not undestand that flying 5000 km (thats a european distance unit) away from your home is not a decision you take lightheartedly, on which it is reasonable to have second thoughts, even if you signed a damned piece of paper ?
His change of heart came after a "long talk" with Mil after he had already signed.
To put this in another context, when I was 18 I made a decision to fly 3000 miles from California to Boston to attend University. I would have liked to say home in a more comfortable place but I knew I was making a long term investment in myself and I grew as a person because of it.
Perhaps my friends or family could have convinced me with a "long talk" that I really should just stay at home and not worry about taking on such responsibility in a place so far away. If that had been the case I would most likely not have the level of sucess I have to day on a personal and financial level.
But you do bring up a good point perhaps he is just not mature enough to play SC2 at a professional level.
|
On September 21 2011 00:16 Ylrahc wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 00:04 Ryder. wrote:On September 21 2011 00:01 Merlimoo wrote:
Not the mention that he has previously said to Millenium that he will stay with them.
Even in the US, an oral contract, is a contract. So the Millenium one was beforehand and a work contract is not valid if the employee is already under contract. Case closed. Saying you will stay with them does not make it a contract :/ you need an intention to be legally bound, sufficient agreement on all important terms (consensus) and consideration (both parties need to gain something out of it). Please stop spamming this thread with nonsense :/ It's actually the one sensible thing he said : Stephano and M had an oral agreement about Stephano signing in the short future an employment contract with M, whose terms were already fixed. This might very well be enough to render coL contract void under any law, french or US one (even if I doubt it, but as we know, opinion != fact). So M didn't do anything wrong apart from fueling some internet flame (and coL didn't do anything wrong either, only part at fault is Stephano)
In the case stephano already had a valid agreement with mill, before signing with col. Then col would not have to sue mill, but stephano himself.
|
Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...................What?
I wish we had less vague info and first person word from Stephano about the matter.
|
On September 21 2011 00:18 mechavoc wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 00:07 hephaestos wrote:On September 20 2011 23:24 mechavoc wrote:I was thinking the very same thing about the aw shucks he didn't mean to sign it, he is just a kid, it was late, he didn’t have a good night sleep, he didn’t sign with an EU approved felt pen made in France and dipped in Ink from Portugal so it means nothing apologists How about, he obviously did not fully wish to sign since he retracted the next day, and he certainly did not ask to engage in such a hurry, and he can make mistakes since he is young and plays starcraft 2 for a living. How can anyone not undestand that flying 5000 km (thats a european distance unit) away from your home is not a decision you take lightheartedly, on which it is reasonable to have second thoughts, even if you signed a damned piece of paper ? His change of heart came after a "long talk" with Mil after he had already signed. To put this in another context, when I was 18 I made a decision to fly 3000 miles from California to Boston to attend University. I would have liked to say home in a more comfortable place but I knew I was making a long term investment in myself and I grew as a person because of it. Perhaps my friends or family could have convinced me with a "long talk" that I really should just stay at home and not worry about taking on such responsibility in a place so far away. If that had been the case I would most likely not have the level of sucess I have to day on a personal and financial level. But you do bring up a good point perhaps he is just not mature enough to play SC2 at a professional level.
Good for you. Would you like to tell me what to do with my life please? I have some issues at the moment.
|
On September 21 2011 00:19 Sandermatt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 00:16 Ylrahc wrote:On September 21 2011 00:04 Ryder. wrote:On September 21 2011 00:01 Merlimoo wrote:
Not the mention that he has previously said to Millenium that he will stay with them.
Even in the US, an oral contract, is a contract. So the Millenium one was beforehand and a work contract is not valid if the employee is already under contract. Case closed. Saying you will stay with them does not make it a contract :/ you need an intention to be legally bound, sufficient agreement on all important terms (consensus) and consideration (both parties need to gain something out of it). Please stop spamming this thread with nonsense :/ It's actually the one sensible thing he said : Stephano and M had an oral agreement about Stephano signing in the short future an employment contract with M, whose terms were already fixed. This might very well be enough to render coL contract void under any law, french or US one (even if I doubt it, but as we know, opinion != fact). So M didn't do anything wrong apart from fueling some internet flame (and coL didn't do anything wrong either, only part at fault is Stephano) In the case stephano already had a valid agreement with mill, before signing with col. Then col would not have to sue mill, but stephano himself.
You are right! As long as coL sue somebody, everything will be fine... -,-' omg!
|
The only way I can see Millienium not be at fault in this is if:
2 company goes into a bidding war for a player, CoL decides to contact Stephano privately and offers him a better deal than the current bid and gets him to sign a contract.
On the other hand, Millienium continues to bid and out bids CoL. Stephano sees that Millienium has outbid CoL with a better offer than the private offer and decides to sign with Mil instead.
From the OP, We never found out what happened to the bidding. Why in the world did CoL contacted Stephano privately and goes to sign contract with him when a bidding is going on?
|
It's just a desperate attempt by CoL to get what they wanted, and they certainly must feel like they were robbed, but if Stephano had just signed with CoL, then I suppose it's okay saying there is a certain time where you can retract yourself (7 days) because hey who doesn't make mistakes ?
Mill is doing all they can to keep their key player.
Also I find funny to hear US guys saying that Stephano would improve better in CoL, because it's ridiculous. Stephano is already better than any US CoL players, and until now he improved himself in Mill. I even think that if Stephano actually get to USA, he would have a hard time in the beginning because he is actually young and saying good buy to his familly, friends and everything is pretty hard.
|
On September 21 2011 00:08 Legio wrote:
I have a question to you french guys that seem to be all over this thread. Where do you think Stephano will improve more in the future, at a french teamhouse or in Korea playing with the Col korean team?
If Stephano was happy in Millennium, why would he sign with Col in the first place?
With EG/TL/Mouz/Dignitas/Korean Team.
CoL and Millenium are pretty the same kind of team. Not bad, but not amazing.
|
On September 21 2011 00:15 PlaGuE_R wrote:
he was NEVER interested in pursuing the type of career HuK or Jinro are pursuing. Source is Stephano himself from Shethtiny stream-a-thon on Sheth's stream.
Then why did he sign the contract, after weeks of negotiations...?
Right.... so an anecdote from Sheth's stream is more important than a legally binding contract.
|
On September 21 2011 00:16 Ylrahc wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 00:04 Ryder. wrote:On September 21 2011 00:01 Merlimoo wrote:
Not the mention that he has previously said to Millenium that he will stay with them.
Even in the US, an oral contract, is a contract. So the Millenium one was beforehand and a work contract is not valid if the employee is already under contract. Case closed. Saying you will stay with them does not make it a contract :/ you need an intention to be legally bound, sufficient agreement on all important terms (consensus) and consideration (both parties need to gain something out of it). Please stop spamming this thread with nonsense :/ It's actually the one sensible thing he said : Stephano and M had an oral agreement about Stephano signing in the short future an employment contract with M, whose terms were already fixed. This might very well be enough to render coL contract void under any law, french or US one (even if I doubt it, but as we know, opinion != fact). So M didn't do anything wrong apart from fueling some internet flame (and coL didn't do anything wrong either, only part at fault is Stephano)
As far as I know that wouldn't hold; 'signing in the short future' is too vague, for a contract to exist you need to agree on all important details such as the time, what is to be provided, how they are to be paid ect. Just by talking about forming a contract doesn't form one, and I'm 99% sure that it doesn't prevent you from forming other contracts.
The guy who said he should have just asked coL to be released has a really good point lol. Due to the nature of his contract there is hardly an incentive for coL to keep him there against his will, considering that coL hadn't really invested much into it yet, so maybe they would have chosen to just let him go. But just walking away was a bad idea IMO
Edit: Sorry misread some of the key details of what you said. I'm pretty sure he didn't actually have a contract formed with [M] though, where has it been argued had already entered into a legally binding contract with them before coL? And if he had why would he then sign with coL? Pretty sure there would be repercussions for him in that scenario anyway.
|
On September 21 2011 00:20 Merlimoo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 00:19 Sandermatt wrote:On September 21 2011 00:16 Ylrahc wrote:On September 21 2011 00:04 Ryder. wrote:On September 21 2011 00:01 Merlimoo wrote:
Not the mention that he has previously said to Millenium that he will stay with them.
Even in the US, an oral contract, is a contract. So the Millenium one was beforehand and a work contract is not valid if the employee is already under contract. Case closed. Saying you will stay with them does not make it a contract :/ you need an intention to be legally bound, sufficient agreement on all important terms (consensus) and consideration (both parties need to gain something out of it). Please stop spamming this thread with nonsense :/ It's actually the one sensible thing he said : Stephano and M had an oral agreement about Stephano signing in the short future an employment contract with M, whose terms were already fixed. This might very well be enough to render coL contract void under any law, french or US one (even if I doubt it, but as we know, opinion != fact). So M didn't do anything wrong apart from fueling some internet flame (and coL didn't do anything wrong either, only part at fault is Stephano) In the case stephano already had a valid agreement with mill, before signing with col. Then col would not have to sue mill, but stephano himself. You are right! As long as coL sue somebody, everything will be fine... -,-' omg!
I was just pointing out that the argumentaiton above was just putting the mistake from millenium to stephano and not to col.
|
On September 21 2011 00:12 Bandino wrote:
Well from Mill's statement it seems that they have no ground to stand on and are just trying to settle out of court. Hope this ends quickly tho.
there is nothing to settle in court I think
In France, making someone signing a piece of paper and calling it contract doesn't make that piece of paper legal.
But there is obviously things to discuss between the 2 structures, and I hope they'll do their best for the future of Stephano.
|
As long as there is no unified body that governs eSports, shit like this is gonna happen.
Its like 20-somethings signing 16 year olds to contracts. Not sustainable otherwise.
|
On September 21 2011 00:20 Merlimoo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 00:18 mechavoc wrote:On September 21 2011 00:07 hephaestos wrote:On September 20 2011 23:24 mechavoc wrote:I was thinking the very same thing about the aw shucks he didn't mean to sign it, he is just a kid, it was late, he didn’t have a good night sleep, he didn’t sign with an EU approved felt pen made in France and dipped in Ink from Portugal so it means nothing apologists How about, he obviously did not fully wish to sign since he retracted the next day, and he certainly did not ask to engage in such a hurry, and he can make mistakes since he is young and plays starcraft 2 for a living. How can anyone not undestand that flying 5000 km (thats a european distance unit) away from your home is not a decision you take lightheartedly, on which it is reasonable to have second thoughts, even if you signed a damned piece of paper ? His change of heart came after a "long talk" with Mil after he had already signed. To put this in another context, when I was 18 I made a decision to fly 3000 miles from California to Boston to attend University. I would have liked to say home in a more comfortable place but I knew I was making a long term investment in myself and I grew as a person because of it. Perhaps my friends or family could have convinced me with a "long talk" that I really should just stay at home and not worry about taking on such responsibility in a place so far away. If that had been the case I would most likely not have the level of sucess I have to day on a personal and financial level. But you do bring up a good point perhaps he is just not mature enough to play SC2 at a professional level. Good for you. Would you like to tell me what to do with my life please? I have some issues at the moment.
Merlimoo admitting your life lacks direction is an important first step.
I would be happy to help provide you with some guidance if your current issues are of a personal nature we can discuss in PM as we want to keep this discussion on topic.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
