EPTOn September 20 2011 07:37 Horse...falcon wrote:
No Huk? No Puzzle? No Alicia?
No Huk? No Puzzle? No Alicia?
Alicia got knocked out of Code A by a foreigner.
Our Protoss Heroes (GSL Spoiler Alert) - Page 18
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Daralii
United States16991 Posts
Alicia got knocked out of Code A by a foreigner. | ||
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BoomNasty
United States265 Posts
On September 20 2011 08:50 Daralii wrote: Alicia got knocked out of Code A by a foreigner. because select plays terran | ||
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SetStndbySmn
United States657 Posts
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Jinivus
747 Posts
On September 20 2011 09:00 SetStndbySmn wrote: Thanks for writing this up- in a time when 90% of pro matches give protoss spectators no helpful insight, it's good to draw attention to the matches that actually are showing new and successful approaches. For a decent period now I havn't considered players like MC and Alicia as the biggest protoss heroes, with that mantle being taken up by the first 3 you mention. My personal favorite is JYP because I have trouble against zerg, but sage and hero are definitely in the same league. New? Maybe. Successful? Hardly. What top end ZvPers and TvPers have these players beaten? They sport 50 percent and sometimes even lower winrates, JYP is ok vs zerg but he has like a 24 percent winrate vs terran...he will get nowhere in GSL. Sage is Alicia 2.0 and is on a 6 game losing streak vs zerg anyway. | ||
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Ownos
United States2147 Posts
On September 20 2011 08:33 MK4512 wrote: I don't feel at all that protoss is losing because they don't macro, that was 3-4 seasons ago toss that all'nd every game. MC is still better than everyone up there, excluding Sage potentially, IMO. People are waaaaaaaaaaay too quick to cross off players (MVP anyone?) "Every Protoss strat is cheese/all-in/unsafe" - some bitter zerg player | ||
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Kazeyonoma
United States2912 Posts
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MrProb
Thailand794 Posts
List all the protoss units here and u'll see why they cant be innovative. 1.The race itself lacked mobility.Most units are slow the ones that fast do pathetic dps such as Stalker or Phoenix. 2.Protoss cant split army AT ALL its an auto GG if u lose a considered amount of Sentries or Stalkers because protoss is one of the hardest and slowest to get 2nd, 3rd or 4th base w/o already securing a significant lead thus lowest income of 3 races.While Terran can afford to lose some Medivacs full of marines as long as they managed to harass abit (which most likely will cuz they're the most cost effective combo in the game) and Zerg have speedlings, baneling mines, Mutas or even Infestor harass.They can also afford to lose bunch of zerglings cuz most of the time they'll be ahead of their opponents on income(at least against protoss). | ||
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Dalavita
Sweden1113 Posts
On September 20 2011 09:17 MrProb wrote: I lol'd at ppl who said that Protoss players need to find something new and innovative. List all the protoss units here and u'll see why they cant be innovative. 1.The race itself lacked mobility.Most units are slow the ones that fast do pathetic dps such as Stalker or Phoenix. 2.Protoss cant split army AT ALL its an auto GG if u lose a considered amount of Sentries or Stalkers because protoss is one of the hardest and slowest to get 2nd, 3rd or 4th base w/o already securing a significant lead thus lowest income of 3 races.While Terran can afford to lose some Medivacs full of marines as long as they managed to harass abit (which most likely will cuz they're the most cost effective combo in the game) and Zerg have speedlings, baneling mines, Mutas or even Infestor harass.They can also afford to lose bunch of zerglings cuz most of the time they'll be ahead of their opponents on income(at least against protoss). People were saying that zergs would have to innovate when they were struggling, and a lot of people were using the same arguments you are. In the end, zergs managed. Don't worry, you'll get there. | ||
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Daralii
United States16991 Posts
On September 20 2011 09:22 Dalavita wrote: People were saying that zergs would have to innovate when they were struggling, and a lot of people were using the same arguments you are. In the end, zergs managed. Don't worry, you'll get there. Zergs managed by complaining until Blizz buffed the hell out of infestors. | ||
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Arisen
United States2382 Posts
On September 20 2011 08:35 Jinivus wrote: Oh no! He build DT's one game and did a 1 gate expo LEARN TO PLAY SAFE MC!!. MVP does tons of risky bunker rushes, cheese, 1 base all in vs huk, but you revere him why? BECAUSE TERRAN ALL INS DON'T SUCK. It's not 1 game, he does it a lot. Most protoss do. Don't get mad at me; its just a fact. Protoss players do stupid stuff in a lot of their series because they feel they need to be able to cut corners in macro games and as that's gotten figured out, they are more and more getting punished for it. Also, I never said I revere MVP. Yeah, he takes risks from time to time and I think they pay off more for terran that protoss right now (take for instance that proxy 11/11 he does versus zerg - that's certainly risky but almost every zerg hatch firsts, so it's an auto win, and I don't think that's right either; also 1/1/1 is very strong versus protoss, and that's not being punished yet because people haven't figured out how to do it) I don't see how saying "X player takes a lot of risks and is successful" nullifies the fact that most protoss players do risky stuff a lot to get free advantages. Yeah, it sucks that terran all ins are safer and very powerful, but if you take a big risk, you should get smashed down. How long have we seen just about every protoss 6 gate or DT rush or something similar 2/3 games versus zergs and just about every time they go for that late game they just win? Yeah, it's super good when your DT opener pays off or your 1 rax expo isn't punished, or your 6 gate works, etc. However, basing the majority of a Bo3 on that style of play is just not a strong way to play. | ||
kubiks
France1328 Posts
On September 20 2011 08:11 Sahand wrote: notsureifsrs.jpeg HongUn has his moments, he's just consistently average. Any game I watch including HongUn is completely lack luster. I used to be a big fan of the guy when he did double forge play before it was adapted by Tyler, and thought it was genius. Since then he's just been following the standards. There's nothing wrong with that, but in no means should he be crowned the 2nd best toss of sc2 or even close to the best in the last few months. I personally think if results continue to post up the way they do, HuK will probably take the roll of best Protoss in the world, but it all depends on how the Korean meta-game shifts with the next patch. If we look at the achievements and we exclude MC, Hongun is by FAR the best protoss, with 2 semi-finals and a ro8. And by the way he's the most consistent (well genious somehow manage to stay in code S too, but...). It's like if the best terran players in term of achievement were ensare and clide | ||
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Jinivus
747 Posts
On September 20 2011 09:22 Dalavita wrote: People were saying that zergs would have to innovate when they were struggling, and a lot of people were using the same arguments you are. In the end, zergs got buffed and protoss got nerfed Don't worry, sooner or later blizz will get their heads out of their asses Fixed. | ||
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Dalavita
Sweden1113 Posts
On September 20 2011 09:22 Daralii wrote: Zergs managed by complaining until Blizz buffed the hell out of infestors. It was a mixture of patching and people figuring things out. Baneling drops for instance was something that developed naturally and a key thing people were telling zerg users was to use drops. People have been telling protoss players to use the warp prism more and now finally do we see more uses of it, with Hero v Idra being a prime example of its potential, and that's before any patch. | ||
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Jinivus
747 Posts
On September 20 2011 09:28 Dalavita wrote: It was a mixture of patching and people figuring things out. Baneling drops for instance was something that developed naturally and a key thing people were telling zerg users was to use drops. People have been telling protoss players to use the warp prism more and now finally do we see more uses of it, with Hero v Idra being a prime example of its potential, and that's before any patch. The patch literally would've had no impact on that game because Idra just let the warp prism sit there for 10 minutes. It's health meant nothing. It's cute play but even if it evolves into the metagame it will just get blind countered by zergs anyway. | ||
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Arisen
United States2382 Posts
On September 20 2011 09:17 MrProb wrote: I lol'd at ppl who said that Protoss players need to find something new and innovative. List all the protoss units here and u'll see why they cant be innovative. 1.The race itself lacked mobility.Most units are slow the ones that fast do pathetic dps such as Stalker or Phoenix. 2.Protoss cant split army AT ALL its an auto GG if u lose a considered amount of Sentries or Stalkers because protoss is one of the hardest and slowest to get 2nd, 3rd or 4th base w/o already securing a significant lead thus lowest income of 3 races.While Terran can afford to lose some Medivacs full of marines as long as they managed to harass abit (which most likely will cuz they're the most cost effective combo in the game) and Zerg have speedlings, baneling mines, Mutas or even Infestor harass.They can also afford to lose bunch of zerglings cuz most of the time they'll be ahead of their opponents on income(at least against protoss). Combat-EX beats a lot of top level zergs who go infestor BL by splitting his army and blinking in to their bases to snipe tech/hatches and blinking away; and combat ex is terrible. Stalkers are amazingly strong and moblie; I don't know what you're talking about. DO you remember the game at MLG columbus where MC went just mass stalker with blink versus IdrA while IdrA had a huge macro advantage and fucking hydra/infestor (which are both supposed to be zergs answer to a lot of stalkers) and still lost horribly? Yeah, stalkers are shit. Get the fuck out of here. Have you watched HerO fucking shit on zergs using Warp prism zeal? Have you watched MC fucking cleave a mineral line even though they had anti air there with phoenix? Have you seen Korean Protoss's lift infestors with spread out phoenix in teh late game and molest the rest of the army? Have you seen KewiKaki lol at every zerg once he has a mothership? What about SaSe and those (im guessing you would say) terrible carriers? I could go on... | ||
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Jinivus
747 Posts
On September 20 2011 09:31 Arisen wrote: Combat-EX beats a lot of top level zergs who go infestor BL by splitting his army and blinking in to their bases to snipe tech/hatches and blinking away; and combat ex is terrible. Stalkers are amazingly strong and moblie; I don't know what you're talking about. DO you remember the game at MLG columbus where MC went just mass stalker with blink versus IdrA while IdrA had a huge macro advantage and fucking hydra/infestor (which are both supposed to be zergs answer to a lot of stalkers) and still lost horribly? Yeah, stalkers are shit. Get the fuck out of here. Have you watched HerO fucking shit on zergs using Warp prism zeal? Have you watched MC fucking cleave a mineral line even though they had anti air there with phoenix? Have you seen Korean Protoss's lift infestors with spread out phoenix in teh late game and molest the rest of the army? Have you seen KewiKaki lol at every zerg once he has a mothership? What about SaSe and those (im guessing you would say) terrible carriers? I could go on... I haven't watched them do that vs any good ZvPers. And seriously Idra is just horrible at vP so why you are citing his game in reference to what would work vs a top zerg is beyond me. Stop telling us to fucking use carriers we want GSL protoss to be able to beat good people... | ||
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Dalavita
Sweden1113 Posts
On September 20 2011 09:31 Jinivus wrote: The patch literally would've had no impact on that game because Idra just let the warp prism sit there for 10 minutes. It's health meant nothing. It's cute play but even if it evolves into the metagame it will just get blind countered by zergs anyway. Of course it worked because the opponent messed up. That's the basis of all victories and defeats. It's not like Hero perfected warp prism play either. He just showed us the potential of it, and once people realize the potential, the play will develop naturally, regardless of zergs trying to counter something or not, and thus, the metagame advances. | ||
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Jinivus
747 Posts
On September 20 2011 09:35 Dalavita wrote: Of course it worked because the opponent messed up. That's the basis of all victories and defeats. It's not like Hero perfected warp prism play either. He just showed us the potential of it, and once people realize the potential, the play will develop naturally, regardless of zergs trying to counter something or not, and thus, the metagame advances. Then zergs learn to build 4 corruptors to kill warp prisms and build a couple spines and we're back to square 1. Kind of like with MC's stargate play. | ||
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Dalavita
Sweden1113 Posts
On September 20 2011 09:37 Jinivus wrote: Then zergs learn to build 4 corruptors to kill warp prisms and build a couple spines and we're back to square 1. Kind of like with MC's stargate play. I'm not even going to bother trying to theorycraft all the different counters and counter-counters with the still unexplored warp prism play. Just wait and see, and you might be pleasantly surprised, naysayer. | ||
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Arisen
United States2382 Posts
On September 20 2011 09:32 Jinivus wrote: I haven't watched them do that vs any good ZvPers. Well they have. Like I said, fucking combat-ex does it and he's horrible And seriously Idra is just horrible at vP so why you are citing his game in reference to what would work vs a top zerg is beyond me. IdrA loses a lot of games versus protoss because he lets them get 3 bases up with colossus/HT. It doesn't matter who you are, as a zerg you lose at that point unless the protoss fucks up. IdrA, however, has great unit control. Are you telling me that because it was idra playing that fucking infestor hydralisk shouldn't be able to beat just blink stalkers? Get the fuck out of here Stop telling us to fucking use carriers we want GSL protoss to be able to beat good people... I'm not telling you to use carriers. I'm telling you that SaSe who is a GSL protoss uses carriers and wins games with them versus good people | ||
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