• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 03:12
CET 09:12
KST 17:12
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational4SC2 All-Star Invitational: Tournament Preview5RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0
Community News
Weekly Cups (Jan 12-18): herO, MaxPax, Solar win0BSL Season 2025 - Full Overview and Conclusion8Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets4$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)16Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns7
StarCraft 2
General
herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational PhD study /w SC2 - help with a survey! SC2 Spotted on the EWC 2026 list? Starcraft 2 will not be in the Esports World Cup When will we find out if there are more tournament
Tourneys
$70 Prize Pool Ladder Legends Academy Weekly Open! SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-18 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament SC2 AI Tournament 2026 $21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[A] Starcraft Sound Mod
External Content
Mutation # 509 Doomsday Report Mutation # 508 Violent Night Mutation # 507 Well Trained Mutation # 506 Warp Zone
Brood War
General
[ASL21] Potential Map Candidates BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Gypsy to Korea BSL Season 2025 - Full Overview and Conclusion A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10 Small VOD Thread 2.0 Azhi's Colosseum - Season 2
Strategy
Current Meta Simple Questions, Simple Answers Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Game Theory for Starcraft
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason Awesome Games Done Quick 2026!
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread NASA and the Private Sector Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Navigating the Risks and Rew…
TrAiDoS
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1698 users

Do you macro like a pro? - Page 19

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 17 18 19 20 21 63 Next
Shucks!
Profile Joined November 2010
United States118 Posts
September 16 2011 19:41 GMT
#361
I'm a master's player with a SQ of 58. This means what? INC terran jokes.
"Do not look into the eyes of a horse, for the void there will swallow your soul" - LiquidTyler on SotG 12.14.10
Treva
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States533 Posts
September 16 2011 19:41 GMT
#362
Awesome post! Thanks for the info ^_^
Live it up.
rebelsaint
Profile Joined June 2011
United States24 Posts
September 16 2011 19:42 GMT
#363
Awesome post, first of all.

A question: I am a Gold leaguer who has been facing Plats as of late. I calculated my last 20 games: the average SQ was 64.6. This is mid-Diamond League according to the chart.

Would it be safe for me to assume that my macro is above my league, and that i should start focusing on micro or general strategy/tactics to improve more rapidly?
Rantech
Profile Joined April 2010
Chile527 Posts
September 16 2011 19:44 GMT
#364
amazing post, i enjoyed reading it , thx!
nttea
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Sweden4353 Posts
September 16 2011 19:47 GMT
#365
On September 17 2011 04:42 rebelsaint wrote:
Awesome post, first of all.

A question: I am a Gold leaguer who has been facing Plats as of late. I calculated my last 20 games: the average SQ was 64.6. This is mid-Diamond League according to the chart.

Would it be safe for me to assume that my macro is above my league, and that i should start focusing on micro or general strategy/tactics to improve more rapidly?

sure, unless your last 20 games are abnormal somehow this should indicate your macro, at least to the extent this score shows is above your level, assuming your current level is gold or plat this would probably mean your decision making and/or micro is lacking in comparison!
Draconicfire
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada2562 Posts
September 16 2011 19:50 GMT
#366
Idra's head on the graph made me laugh.

Interesting info regardless though.
@Drayxs | Drayxs.221 | Drayxs#1802
Steveplayshorn
Profile Joined June 2011
United States36 Posts
September 16 2011 19:50 GMT
#367
Wow impressive work! I really appreciate all the effort you put into this project. Thanks!
Horn, Redline Brass Quintet
Clbull
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United Kingdom1439 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-16 19:51:34
September 16 2011 19:51 GMT
#368
I don't feel that SQ is a very accurate formula for calculating how good a player is at macro. It makes sense for earlier games but what about with the late game.

Zerg are meant to max out before their Terran and Protoss bretheren but it's not like they build 30 hatcheries once they max out. They pool their money and continue to make larvae, making their average unspent resources skyrocket later and later into the game.

I tried calculating mine over my last 10 ladder games as Zerg but I had two games where I pooled a load of unspent resources in the late game that I didn't spend because I had been maxed out and had a fuckload of larvae anyway. My SQ dropped to around 22 there.

There was also a ZvZ where I BM'd and the opponent, being an asshole back basically extended the game as long as possible by expanding eveywhere, staying about 5 hatcheries ahead of me and abusing my immobility by constant harassment and guerilla warfare. In that game which I won after 1 hour and 14 minutes, my SQ dropped to -2.7

[image loading]

Screenshot of my Excel spreadsheet. Note that I did a revised calculation from 8 games after I felt the late game nature of 2 of them really screwed up my final SQ rating.

With the retardedly late game games, SQ = ~42.99 average

Without. SQ = ~50.96 average

If it's important, I am a high Gold League Zerg.
Madera
Profile Joined July 2011
Sweden2672 Posts
September 16 2011 19:52 GMT
#369
Wow, really awesome post!
McFortran
Profile Joined October 2010
United States79 Posts
September 16 2011 19:52 GMT
#370
On September 17 2011 04:41 IndoorSpawningPool wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 17 2011 04:28 McFortran wrote:
Played a 17 minute game vs the very easy AI and got a score of 116 (diamond league, haven't played in months). Clearly passive games will make the score much higher than it should be, and games in lower leagues tend to be more passive than in higher leagues (my macro sucks when I play against masters league opponents in customs).


You have to remember that the OP is taking his data from the ladder where the data is already categorized by Blizzard matchmaking... he found a VERY interesting correlation in player's league and macro efficiency that almost everyone has overlooked...

I indeed found the correlation to be quite cool, and also enjoyed the worker graphs. That's obviously quite valuable information. I figured that most people would just try to calculate their SQ and use that for comparisons though, and wanted to show that they aren't necessarily comparable on an individual level.
goodbyepuppy
Profile Joined September 2011
United States1 Post
September 16 2011 19:53 GMT
#371
great post. economics major?
UCD <3
hitpoint
Profile Joined October 2010
United States1511 Posts
September 16 2011 19:57 GMT
#372
This is really cool. Good job.
It's spelled LOSE not LOOSE.
KaBoom300
Profile Joined January 2011
United States225 Posts
September 16 2011 19:59 GMT
#373
whatthefat: really good at making awesome paint drawings AND super in depth posts with math. good good stuff
Liquid Dota Fighting!
kmh
Profile Joined November 2010
Finland351 Posts
September 16 2011 20:00 GMT
#374
On September 17 2011 04:51 Clbull wrote:
I don't feel that SQ is a very accurate formula for calculating how good a player is at macro. It makes sense for earlier games but what about with the late game.

[...] snip


Without. SQ = ~50.96 average

If it's important, I am a high Gold League Zerg.


Guess what? Your results fall into the expected range for a gold league player regardless of that inaccuracy.
Lingy
Profile Joined December 2010
England201 Posts
September 16 2011 20:06 GMT
#375
WOW that was insane, i think i have to read it again a few times
Very good job
Hydraliskuuuuhh
XForce3
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada45 Posts
September 16 2011 20:07 GMT
#376
I've read econometric studies/articles in my graduate studies that have less in-depth mathematical study than this. Awesome job!
Demonace34
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States2493 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-16 20:08:58
September 16 2011 20:08 GMT
#377
I wonder what would happen if you also took out the 4 gate from your study. At higher levels masters and grandmasters are more likely to cut probes at a certain point in the game. (They probably get to 22 probes quicker still) but after that the lower level players who are messing around and making expansions are throwing off the early game

SQ was a good way to mitigate some of the problems with probe cuts since masters and grandmasters are more likely to spend their money better as their income rises.

Thanks for all the math, I don't understand all of it, but you did a damn good job.
NaNiwa|IdrA|HuK|iNcontroL|Jinro|NonY|Day[9]|PuMa|HerO|MMA|NesTea|NaDa|Boxer|Ryung|
MeLlamoSatan
Profile Joined April 2011
United States136 Posts
September 16 2011 20:08 GMT
#378
Incredible! This is very interesting and you did some impressive work. Hope this was for a capstone or something!
Joker rhymes like the is you just happy to see me trick Classical slapstick rappers need chapstick A lot of them sound like they in a talent show So I give them something to remember like the Alamo
DensitY
Profile Joined November 2010
New Zealand74 Posts
September 16 2011 20:09 GMT
#379
I just did my last 20 games.

Gold 1v1 Protoss NA, Plat EU.

Seems my SQ varies. My highest was an impressive 88.3749. My lowest was a sad sad 52.34.
Avg is 69.84241318 (so half way between diamond and masters)

Pretty much enforcements my all of my friend's opinions that my decision making is one of the biggest reasons I'm not in a higher league.

Very interesting!
MonkSEA
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Australia1227 Posts
September 16 2011 20:10 GMT
#380
I'm masters and my last ten games that I didn't get maxed in and wasn't fooling around in placed my score as 80.3

I even got a 97.3, which is pretty cool! :D
http://www.youtube.com/user/sirmonkeh Zerg Live Casts and Commentary!
Prev 1 17 18 19 20 21 63 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 48m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SortOf 82
StarCraft: Brood War
actioN 292
Movie 101
Killer 94
Shinee 81
Hm[arnc] 71
EffOrt 63
JulyZerg 61
ZergMaN 44
Shine 29
Nal_rA 27
[ Show more ]
Mong 20
Bale 16
Sacsri 15
NotJumperer 13
ajuk12(nOOB) 7
League of Legends
JimRising 696
C9.Mang0425
Other Games
summit1g6574
WinterStarcraft342
XaKoH 148
Mew2King107
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1083
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 62
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Laughngamez YouTube
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Lourlo1158
• Jankos409
• Stunt385
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
1h 48m
OSC
2h 48m
Clem vs Cure
ByuN vs TBD
TBD vs Solar
MaxPax vs TBD
Krystianer vs TBD
ShoWTimE vs TBD
Big Brain Bouts
2 days
Serral vs TBD
BSL 21
3 days
BSL 21
4 days
Wardi Open
5 days
Monday Night Weeklies
5 days
WardiTV Invitational
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-01-20
SC2 All-Star Inv. 2025
NA Kuram Kup

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
OSC Championship Season 13
Underdog Cup #3
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W5
Acropolis #4 - TS4
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Rongyi Cup S3
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.