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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
On May 28 2013 01:53 Bagi wrote:
Please point out games where they do this, and not just games where they do regular aggressive builds but outmultitask their opponent and get ahead in macro because of it.
Btw Innovation has a 30% winrate against protoss according to TLPD.
I'm not gonna go back and look for VODs for you. The only game that comes to mind right now is Rain vs Flash which Rain won because he was countering Flash's entire playstyle all game long - and still only barely held the bio/viking timing with an absolutely godlike engagement.
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On May 28 2013 02:03 Topdoller wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2013 01:53 Bagi wrote:
Please point out games where they do this, and not just games where they do regular aggressive builds but outmultitask their opponent and get ahead in macro because of it.
Btw Innovation has a 30% winrate against protoss according to TLPD. Does anyone care if Innovation has a 30% winrate v Protoss?. Just because he is flavor of the month doesn't mean he is a god like player. Lets put it in perspective hes won nothing of note in SC1 or SC2 so far.
This guy is saying theres a new style that will net terrans "insanely high winrates" and that Korean terrans like Flash and Innovation are already using it. Doesn't it only make sense to take a look at their winrates then?
Innovation is sitting at 30%, Flash is 60% which is better but in line with his other match-ups. If there's a revolution happening I just don't see it.
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On May 28 2013 02:03 Topdoller wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2013 01:53 Bagi wrote:
Please point out games where they do this, and not just games where they do regular aggressive builds but outmultitask their opponent and get ahead in macro because of it.
Btw Innovation has a 30% winrate against protoss according to TLPD. Does anyone care if Innovation has a 30% winrate v Protoss?. Just because he is flavor of the month doesn't mean he is a god like player. Lets put it in perspective hes won nothing of note in SC1 or SC2 so far.
Poster 2 post above you brought up Innovation ridicoulus winrate in TvP.
Also innovation is most consistent player in Korea right now - 3 GSL in a row he is Top 8.
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
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On May 28 2013 02:12 DarkLordOlli wrote:
You did notice that TLPD's last TvP entry for Innovation is from 3rd of February, didn't you?
Then when did you see him use this style to list him as one of the "innovators"?
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
On May 28 2013 02:14 Bagi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2013 02:12 DarkLordOlli wrote:
You did notice that TLPD's last TvP entry for Innovation is from 3rd of February, didn't you? Then when did you see him use this style to list him as one of the "innovators"?
He does it in most of his TvP Proleague games as well as a slighty less greedy (less figured out) version of it at MLG when he 3-0d Rain.
The one who really does it almost every single game is Flash though - making him predictable to a point where Rain is able to tailor a build that's designed to counter him at every turn. The thing is, Rain's build doesn't work if you don't know what your opponent is gonna do from the very beginning.
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On May 28 2013 02:03 Topdoller wrote:
Does anyone care if Innovation has a 30% winrate v Protoss?. Just because he is flavor of the month doesn't mean he is a god like player. Lets put it in perspective hes won nothing of note in SC1 or SC2 so far.
Lol @ calling "flavor or the month" someone who went RO4/RO8/finals in his three first Code S.
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On May 28 2013 02:18 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2013 02:03 Topdoller wrote:
Does anyone care if Innovation has a 30% winrate v Protoss?. Just because he is flavor of the month doesn't mean he is a god like player. Lets put it in perspective hes won nothing of note in SC1 or SC2 so far. Lol @ calling "flavor or the month" someone who went RO4/RO8/finals in his three first Code S.
Flavour of the year
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On May 28 2013 02:17 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2013 02:14 Bagi wrote:On May 28 2013 02:12 DarkLordOlli wrote:
You did notice that TLPD's last TvP entry for Innovation is from 3rd of February, didn't you? Then when did you see him use this style to list him as one of the "innovators"? He does it in most of his TvP Proleague games as well as a slighty less greedy (less figured out) version of it at MLG when he 3-0d Rain. The one who really does it almost every single game is Flash though.
You do realize that if he had played TvP in proleague it should be in the TLPD?
I'm just fucking with you at this point though, because all you are describing is how Flash plays all his match-ups by being a little greedier than his competition. It's not even a new style and it certainly won't make terran winrates soar, its just him being on top of his macro and multitasking.
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I keep looking at win rates once every week or so, and what exactly happened to TvP? It looked like protoss got a hang of it finally by going really greedy builds, but that lasted about a week T is absolutely smashing protoss for the past 12~ days or so.
PvT 65–96 (40%) !!!
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
On May 28 2013 02:22 sibs wrote:
I keep looking at win rates once every week or so, and what exactly happened to TvP? It looked like protoss got a hang of it finally by going really greedy builds, but that lasted about a week T is absolutely smashing protoss for the past 12~ days or so.
PvT 65–96 (40%) !!!
The great awakening.
Also yeah it should be in TLPD but it's not apparently. Aligulac is apparently more reliable with match history as it lets me filter it nice and easily. As for Flash, he's got superb multitasking and macro of course but his build is overall more abusive if you can call it that. He cuts more corners than others because he knows he can. I'm not sure if what TY did today against HerO is the same thing as I only saw the last few minutes but that looked a lot like something similar.
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On May 28 2013 02:18 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2013 02:03 Topdoller wrote:
Does anyone care if Innovation has a 30% winrate v Protoss?. Just because he is flavor of the month doesn't mean he is a god like player. Lets put it in perspective hes won nothing of note in SC1 or SC2 so far. Lol @ calling "flavor or the month" someone who went RO4/RO8/finals in his three first Code S.
Innovation is no doubt a fantastic player i am not disputing that. But basing win stats of his play is lol. As i stated before hes done nothing so far. Hes a player in top form at the moment
His TvZ is currently immaculate, so poor Soulkey will most likely get raped next week. Its a shame sOs didnt make it to the final because i would have fancied him to win it. Pro league are specialists in snipe builds as you well know
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On May 28 2013 02:29 Topdoller wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2013 02:18 TheDwf wrote:On May 28 2013 02:03 Topdoller wrote:
Does anyone care if Innovation has a 30% winrate v Protoss?. Just because he is flavor of the month doesn't mean he is a god like player. Lets put it in perspective hes won nothing of note in SC1 or SC2 so far. Lol @ calling "flavor or the month" someone who went RO4/RO8/finals in his three first Code S. Innovation is no doubt a fantastic player i am not disputing that. But basing win stats of his play is lol. As i stated before hes done nothing so far. Hes a player in top form at the moment His TvZ is currently immaculate, so poor Soulkey will most likely get raped next week. Its a shame sOs didnt make it to the final because i would have fancied him to win it. Pro league are specialists in snipe builds as you well know
I dont follow your logic. If he's gonna win GSL then we can talk about his stats but not before?
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On May 28 2013 02:22 sibs wrote:
I keep looking at win rates once every week or so, and what exactly happened to TvP? It looked like protoss got a hang of it finally by going really greedy builds, but that lasted about a week T is absolutely smashing protoss for the past 12~ days or so.
PvT 65–96 (40%) !!!
Where are you getting those stats from?
Anyway, there's a limit to how greedy you can be with only 2 bases to work with, and the Terran will always take their third earlier. In practice, Terrans are often like ~40 supply ahead in the midgame, and most Protoss players aren't Parting and simply cannot win from there.
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On May 28 2013 01:53 Bagi wrote:
Please point out games where they do this, and not just games where they do regular aggressive builds but outmultitask their opponent and get ahead in macro because of it.
Btw Innovation has a 30% winrate against protoss according to TLPD.
Are we looking at the same thing here?
I think you mistook the old WoL TLPD for the current HotS TLPD.
Innovation has a 78% winrate in TvP, pal :D
His only weak matchup is TvT, or TvFlash, as I like to call it. Which is around 50%, not that bad for TvFlash.
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On May 28 2013 02:03 Topdoller wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2013 01:53 Bagi wrote:
Please point out games where they do this, and not just games where they do regular aggressive builds but outmultitask their opponent and get ahead in macro because of it.
Btw Innovation has a 30% winrate against protoss according to TLPD. Does anyone care if Innovation has a 30% winrate v Protoss?. Just because he is flavor of the month doesn't mean he is a god like player. Lets put it in perspective hes won nothing of note in SC1 or SC2 so far.
Mvp, Nestea, MC and MMA were all mediocre in BW
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What do you guys think about removing the Swarm Host upgrade of making the locusts last longer and making it intrinsically applied?
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On May 28 2013 04:38 Prog455 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2013 02:03 Topdoller wrote:On May 28 2013 01:53 Bagi wrote:
Please point out games where they do this, and not just games where they do regular aggressive builds but outmultitask their opponent and get ahead in macro because of it.
Btw Innovation has a 30% winrate against protoss according to TLPD. Does anyone care if Innovation has a 30% winrate v Protoss?. Just because he is flavor of the month doesn't mean he is a god like player. Lets put it in perspective hes won nothing of note in SC1 or SC2 so far. Mvp, Nestea, MC and MMA were all mediocre in BW
What does that have to do with anything?
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On May 28 2013 07:05 Fat_Elephant wrote:
What do you guys think about removing the Swarm Host upgrade of making the locusts last longer and making it intrinsically applied?
Even if you ignore the gameplay implications of how powerful that makes the unit ... removing an upgrade is NEVER a good thing because it removes CHOICE from the player. That is why removing the Siege upgrade for Terrans was a bad thing ... even it it might have been necessary to make Blizzards stupidly aggressive balance work.
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On May 28 2013 02:09 keglu wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2013 02:03 Topdoller wrote:On May 28 2013 01:53 Bagi wrote:
Please point out games where they do this, and not just games where they do regular aggressive builds but outmultitask their opponent and get ahead in macro because of it.
Btw Innovation has a 30% winrate against protoss according to TLPD. Does anyone care if Innovation has a 30% winrate v Protoss?. Just because he is flavor of the month doesn't mean he is a god like player. Lets put it in perspective hes won nothing of note in SC1 or SC2 so far. Poster 2 post above you brought up Innovation ridicoulus winrate in TvP. Also innovation is most consistent player in Korea right now - 3 GSL in a row he is Top 8.
Erm... Soulkey?
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EPT
