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even if the drama is disgusting, the publicity ironically might help. we need to wait and see for now i guess :|
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I really don't want to comment on the situation and the decision of FXO to leave itself, but I want to say that I find it amazing how transparent FXO makes his decisions to the community and how professional they act all around.
It seems to have a great staff behind it - well done. Other than that.. so much drama right now.
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On August 14 2011 17:17 Lordwar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2011 17:14 Primadog wrote:
Lordwar, I presume you're not a lawyer and not qualified to provide legal advice in Korea or Australia. Neither am I, so let's leave it to FXOBoss to find his own legal counseling rather than pretending to know better. I just know that FXOboss is wrong, and I have no idea where did he even pull out that claim. Announcing something publicly does not itself degrade the value of evidence.
That's where you're wrong.
I have been a party to quite a few corporate suits. Some I won, some I lost, and I can certanily tell you that there're many circumstances in which previously publicly disclosed information can and does haunt one party or another in the court.
So don't pretend you know what you're talking about.
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On August 14 2011 17:16 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2011 17:11 Lordwar wrote:On August 14 2011 16:28 SecondChance wrote:On August 14 2011 14:44 FXOpen wrote:On August 14 2011 14:41 SecondChance wrote:
What are we supposed to make of this? I'm certainly not calling you a liar by any means, or accusing you of making up stories; but for what reason can you not even provide an example of a phone call you received, or a threat or some experience that you can retell that would at least add some sustenance to your story?
Right now, your post consists of - Sc2con did this and this, it was very bad and we don't like it. Thus, we have decided to leave Sc2con.
I'm not one to pry for information, but if you can't give detailed examples, or give proof, or something your story is just a story. If there are legal reasons or for some other reason you can't disclose information, that's fine.
I also realise TL.net is an sc2 fan site. We can't and shouldn't expect you to tell us everything you know about your own personal issues; I understand that. However, a little more detail is necessary imo. 2 days ago, choya got a call at midnight with someone arguing with him about our team uniforms. That enough for you? I try not to release too many details incase legalities ensue, and by mentioning the above statement, I can no longer use it in court if necessary as its been tainted by public knowledge. But since that was the least of if, it is an example. When choya said "talk to Josh" i.e me. They wouldnt. Whilst, of course honesty is a very big thing in any announcement, you have to understand there are legalities involved and posting every single thing can taint any legal case against someone. Of course, I understand. Thanks. I would hate for this matter to escalate; and for FXO to be disadvantaged because they cannot use information due to releasing details publicly; I would never wish for that to happen. Cheers for explaining. How information would be unusable if it has made public knowledge? It does not change its truthness at all. FXOboss is wrong. He can still use that piece of information with no problems in court. Even if it's true, the public can misinterpret it and the offended party can accuse you of defamation, or trying to discredit them. It also distances both parties in a dispute and makes it more difficult for either to make compromises without looking weak (see the current state of the Republican party as reference). We should all take a page from Sundance, who is an expert at concise, clear public statements -- sometimes the less said, the better. It's annoying, but the more words you give people, the more they have to use against you.
Saying something publicly doesnt change anything, it can still be used as an evidence. Announcing it publicly itself doesnt weaken it at all.
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What's wrong with FXO Korea?
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On August 14 2011 17:22 Primadog wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2011 17:17 Lordwar wrote:On August 14 2011 17:14 Primadog wrote:
Lordwar, I presume you're not a lawyer and not qualified to provide legal advice in Korea or Australia. Neither am I, so let's leave it to FXOBoss to find his own legal counseling rather than pretending to know better. I just know that FXOboss is wrong, and I have no idea where did he even pull out that claim. Announcing something publicly does not itself degrade the value of evidence. That's where you're wrong. I have been a party to quite a few corporate suits. Some I won, some I lost, and I can certanily tell you that there're many circumstances in which previously publicly disclosed information can and does haunt one party or another in the court. So don't pretend you know what you're talking about.
It doesnt prevent still using it as an evidence, if you claim otherwise you just lie.
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[edited]
User was temp banned for this post.
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On August 14 2011 17:25 Primadog wrote:
Look, this has to stop.
My name is XiFan Hong, one of the companies I have a share in is HY STONE DEPOT. You're welcome to search public records and does the fact-check.
You have no idea what the fuck are you talking about. I do. That's enough.
I dont fucking care who you are, but I know for sure that you lie if you claim that evidence cannot be used in court if it has been announced publicly.
Now, shut up really.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On August 14 2011 17:23 Lordwar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2011 17:16 Defacer wrote:On August 14 2011 17:11 Lordwar wrote:On August 14 2011 16:28 SecondChance wrote:On August 14 2011 14:44 FXOpen wrote:On August 14 2011 14:41 SecondChance wrote:
What are we supposed to make of this? I'm certainly not calling you a liar by any means, or accusing you of making up stories; but for what reason can you not even provide an example of a phone call you received, or a threat or some experience that you can retell that would at least add some sustenance to your story?
Right now, your post consists of - Sc2con did this and this, it was very bad and we don't like it. Thus, we have decided to leave Sc2con.
I'm not one to pry for information, but if you can't give detailed examples, or give proof, or something your story is just a story. If there are legal reasons or for some other reason you can't disclose information, that's fine.
I also realise TL.net is an sc2 fan site. We can't and shouldn't expect you to tell us everything you know about your own personal issues; I understand that. However, a little more detail is necessary imo. 2 days ago, choya got a call at midnight with someone arguing with him about our team uniforms. That enough for you? I try not to release too many details incase legalities ensue, and by mentioning the above statement, I can no longer use it in court if necessary as its been tainted by public knowledge. But since that was the least of if, it is an example. When choya said "talk to Josh" i.e me. They wouldnt. Whilst, of course honesty is a very big thing in any announcement, you have to understand there are legalities involved and posting every single thing can taint any legal case against someone. Of course, I understand. Thanks. I would hate for this matter to escalate; and for FXO to be disadvantaged because they cannot use information due to releasing details publicly; I would never wish for that to happen. Cheers for explaining. How information would be unusable if it has made public knowledge? It does not change its truthness at all. FXOboss is wrong. He can still use that piece of information with no problems in court. Even if it's true, the public can misinterpret it and the offended party can accuse you of defamation, or trying to discredit them. It also distances both parties in a dispute and makes it more difficult for either to make compromises without looking weak (see the current state of the Republican party as reference). We should all take a page from Sundance, who is an expert at concise, clear public statements -- sometimes the less said, the better. It's annoying, but the more words you give people, the more they have to use against you. Saying something publicly doesnt change anything, it can still be used as an evidence. Announcing it publicly itself doesnt weaken it at all.
Of course it can...
Naturally it depends on exactly what evidence we are talking about, but there can be many valid reasons why you don't want to publicly state something that are going to be used in a legal argument. I can't see why you would argue otherwise.
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Glad I got to read this before it all got edited out. I look forward to hearing further details once they have their meeting. It's also sad as this is the latest reflection of the fact that SC2 isn't going really well over in Korea. I hope everything gets sorted out one way or another for the good of the scene.
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On August 14 2011 17:23 Lordwar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2011 17:16 Defacer wrote:On August 14 2011 17:11 Lordwar wrote:On August 14 2011 16:28 SecondChance wrote:On August 14 2011 14:44 FXOpen wrote:On August 14 2011 14:41 SecondChance wrote:
What are we supposed to make of this? I'm certainly not calling you a liar by any means, or accusing you of making up stories; but for what reason can you not even provide an example of a phone call you received, or a threat or some experience that you can retell that would at least add some sustenance to your story?
Right now, your post consists of - Sc2con did this and this, it was very bad and we don't like it. Thus, we have decided to leave Sc2con.
I'm not one to pry for information, but if you can't give detailed examples, or give proof, or something your story is just a story. If there are legal reasons or for some other reason you can't disclose information, that's fine.
I also realise TL.net is an sc2 fan site. We can't and shouldn't expect you to tell us everything you know about your own personal issues; I understand that. However, a little more detail is necessary imo. 2 days ago, choya got a call at midnight with someone arguing with him about our team uniforms. That enough for you? I try not to release too many details incase legalities ensue, and by mentioning the above statement, I can no longer use it in court if necessary as its been tainted by public knowledge. But since that was the least of if, it is an example. When choya said "talk to Josh" i.e me. They wouldnt. Whilst, of course honesty is a very big thing in any announcement, you have to understand there are legalities involved and posting every single thing can taint any legal case against someone. Of course, I understand. Thanks. I would hate for this matter to escalate; and for FXO to be disadvantaged because they cannot use information due to releasing details publicly; I would never wish for that to happen. Cheers for explaining. How information would be unusable if it has made public knowledge? It does not change its truthness at all. FXOboss is wrong. He can still use that piece of information with no problems in court. Even if it's true, the public can misinterpret it and the offended party can accuse you of defamation, or trying to discredit them. It also distances both parties in a dispute and makes it more difficult for either to make compromises without looking weak (see the current state of the Republican party as reference). We should all take a page from Sundance, who is an expert at concise, clear public statements -- sometimes the less said, the better. It's annoying, but the more words you give people, the more they have to use against you. Saying something publicly doesnt change anything, it can still be used as an evidence. Announcing it publicly itself doesnt weaken it at all.
Ligitation is the last resort. It's expensive as hell.
Making a dispute public is the second-to-last resort. It makes it harder for two parties to compromise without losing face in front of their organization's members and stakeholders.
What FXOBoss did by announcing publicly that FXO was leaving SC2Con was obviously a difficult decision, after extensive attempts to resolve issues quietly and respectfully but getting nowhere.
It's not all about "who would win in court" or who has the best "evidence." To put it simply, handling negotiations in a public manner is bad for business. It doesn't even matter if your right. It makes resolving disputes much more complicated.
FXOBoss is obviously prepared to sever the cord with SC2Con if necessary, which is the only reason he announced it.
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Musst haaave translation of response from sc2con.... Gaaaaah! 
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Can someone post Boss' original post for those that missed it? I understand he removed it for a reason but it makes the rest of the thread weird and out of context Or just an overall paraphrase bit or something, I mean its been out there in public so its not like its gone
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On August 14 2011 17:26 Lordwar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2011 17:25 Primadog wrote:
Look, this has to stop.
My name is XiFan Hong, one of the companies I have a share in is HY STONE DEPOT. You're welcome to search public records and does the fact-check.
You have no idea what the fuck are you talking about. I do. That's enough. I dont fucking care who you are, but I know for sure that you lie if you claim that evidence cannot be used in court if it has been announced publicly. Now, shut up really.
You are not FXO's lawyer, so how bout you shut up 
I hope these issues get resolved quickly and amicably, and we can go back to fighting in our beautiful esport instead of outside it.
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I'm still not sure what the hell have happened... Can someone explain what exactly problem this person and FXOBoss have with each other? I mean saying that you will leave sc2con because of one person is pretty harsh, I won't pick a stand untill I know what is going on.
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Been reading this thread for a while without posting, some people can be hilarious (in the wrong way )
Thanks for your input on this interesting issue arising, Boss
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On August 14 2011 17:36 hdan wrote:
Can someone post Boss' original post for those that missed it? I understand he removed it for a reason but it makes the rest of the thread weird and out of context Or just an overall paraphrase bit or something, I mean its been out there in public so its not like its gone
Sorry, no OP, but here's my summary.
On August 14 2011 16:44 Defacer wrote:
FXO (including FXO Korea) has decided to leave SC2Con, the association of Korean SC2 teams intended to protect the interests of players and teams.
The primary reason was Choya had to deal with one obnoxious douche-bag from SC2Con, who was making outrageous demands, irrational threats and refused to deal with FXOBoss directly.
Because FXOBoss made a very public announcement, he will now have a face-to-face meeting with the SC2Con administrators in Seoul to see if this relationship can be salvaged.
It is important to emphasize FXO's problems with SC2Con stem from one person in particular, and FXO supports the concept and spirit of SC2Con and has no issues with the teams and players that are members.
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EPT
