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I think it all depends what was written in the contracts. But if the players didnt show in their "workplace" and didn't give a good excuse i think their employer can terminate their contracts and not pay for the days they werent working.
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On August 05 2011 02:19 zeru wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 02:17 tl55555 wrote:On August 05 2011 02:14 Talin wrote:On August 05 2011 02:11 tl55555 wrote:On August 05 2011 02:07 FairForever wrote:On August 05 2011 02:05 karpo wrote:On August 05 2011 02:05 MisterFred wrote:
Well, what does everyone think about Evil Geniuses NOW? You're the 100th person saying that in this thread. Realize that it's two different things. I don't want to get into an argument about this, but it does call into question a lot of things that we believed to be true from Mr. Lee, who knows if he was being deceitful... Anyway back on topic, hope someone will translate the article  Mr. Lee went to the press before consulting with EG about Puma . Doesn't exactly lend to the idea of Mr. Lee being forthcoming and honest. Eh, he went to the press because EG didn't consult with him about that (or anything else). And they've had plenty of time to do so if they ever really wanted to. Also, in this case Lee (and TSL) got played again, so I'm not entirely sure why he's the bad guy. -_- Lee is a poor team manager, his team has fallen apart the past few months and it's no one's fault but his. I doubt Lee is bad at being a manager or coach, he was a MBCGame coach. Bad businessman, maybe.
Well I don't know about bad businessman, I actually agree with the move of holding wages for players who's aren't putting in the agreed time.
Some things just went wrong for his team and he allowed them to happen.
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On August 05 2011 02:22 Frankon wrote:
I think it all depends what was written in the contracts. But if the players didnt show in their "workplace" and didn't give a good excuse i think their employer can terminate their contracts and not pay for the days they werent working.
Except the problem is that the work is the GSL and GSTL participation, as well as the promotions (which TSL continued to use after termination). Those are the crux of the services, and FruitDealer and Trickster continued to represent TSL in these.
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wow. The TSL coach seems completely unreasonable. On all fronts.
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On August 05 2011 02:19 zeru wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 02:17 tl55555 wrote:On August 05 2011 02:14 Talin wrote:On August 05 2011 02:11 tl55555 wrote:On August 05 2011 02:07 FairForever wrote:On August 05 2011 02:05 karpo wrote:On August 05 2011 02:05 MisterFred wrote:
Well, what does everyone think about Evil Geniuses NOW? You're the 100th person saying that in this thread. Realize that it's two different things. I don't want to get into an argument about this, but it does call into question a lot of things that we believed to be true from Mr. Lee, who knows if he was being deceitful... Anyway back on topic, hope someone will translate the article Mr. Lee went to the press before consulting with EG about Puma . Doesn't exactly lend to the idea of Mr. Lee being forthcoming and honest. Eh, he went to the press because EG didn't consult with him about that (or anything else). And they've had plenty of time to do so if they ever really wanted to. Also, in this case Lee (and TSL) got played again, so I'm not entirely sure why he's the bad guy. -_- Lee is a poor team manager, his team has fallen apart the past few months and it's no one's fault but his. I doubt Lee is bad at being a manager or coach, he was a MBCGame coach. Bad businessman, maybe.
Well..
Startale's coach wrote a giant article basically shitting on Coach Lee. :/
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On August 05 2011 02:07 tl55555 wrote:
I don't get why fruitdealer and tester think they can do what they want... seriously they aren't even top tier anymore and they act like assholes. respect--
They are code S players, what do you mean "not top tier"....
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On August 05 2011 02:20 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 02:16 FairForever wrote:On August 05 2011 02:14 Talin wrote:On August 05 2011 02:11 tl55555 wrote:On August 05 2011 02:07 FairForever wrote:On August 05 2011 02:05 karpo wrote:On August 05 2011 02:05 MisterFred wrote:
Well, what does everyone think about Evil Geniuses NOW? You're the 100th person saying that in this thread. Realize that it's two different things. I don't want to get into an argument about this, but it does call into question a lot of things that we believed to be true from Mr. Lee, who knows if he was being deceitful... Anyway back on topic, hope someone will translate the article Mr. Lee went to the press before consulting with EG about Puma . Doesn't exactly lend to the idea of Mr. Lee being forthcoming and honest. Eh, he went to the press because EG didn't consult with him about that (or anything else). And they've had plenty of time to do so if they ever really wanted to. Also, in this case Lee (and TSL) got played again, so I'm not entirely sure why he's the bad guy. -_- They got played because they withheld wages from their players (as per sc2con)... okay there, Mr. Lee is definitely the victim right? The players that didn't show up for training and didn't work for their wages, and now after they've left the team they initiated a process to fuck TSL up even more. Yeah, I'd say he's clearly the victim. If FD and Tester had even a little bit of honor and dignity they would just have let it go once they left TSL. But alas...
stop making assumptions. you have no clue what FD and tester were up too. Mr lee says they were being lazy. that could mean they were playing 8 hrs a day instead of 14. my point is stop it with the useless assumptions
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On August 05 2011 02:20 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 02:16 FairForever wrote:On August 05 2011 02:14 Talin wrote:On August 05 2011 02:11 tl55555 wrote:On August 05 2011 02:07 FairForever wrote:On August 05 2011 02:05 karpo wrote:On August 05 2011 02:05 MisterFred wrote:
Well, what does everyone think about Evil Geniuses NOW? You're the 100th person saying that in this thread. Realize that it's two different things. I don't want to get into an argument about this, but it does call into question a lot of things that we believed to be true from Mr. Lee, who knows if he was being deceitful... Anyway back on topic, hope someone will translate the article Mr. Lee went to the press before consulting with EG about Puma . Doesn't exactly lend to the idea of Mr. Lee being forthcoming and honest. Eh, he went to the press because EG didn't consult with him about that (or anything else). And they've had plenty of time to do so if they ever really wanted to. Also, in this case Lee (and TSL) got played again, so I'm not entirely sure why he's the bad guy. -_- They got played because they withheld wages from their players (as per sc2con)... okay there, Mr. Lee is definitely the victim right? The players that didn't show up for training and didn't work for their wages, and now after they've left the team they initiated a process to fuck TSL up even more. Yeah, I'd say he's clearly the victim. If FD and Tester had even a little bit of honor and dignity they would just have let it go once they left TSL. But alas...
You have to be joking me. FD and Tester earned the money by representing TSL in the GSL and GSTL, and TSL turns around and doesn't pay them for allegedly "not practicing enough". Even if it is true, that does not give TSL the right to withhold wages.
I'm not saying that what FD and Tester did was ethically pure. They probably should've done a better job practicing. But what TSL did was clearly in the wrong, both legally and ethically.
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On August 05 2011 02:24 youngminii wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 02:19 zeru wrote:On August 05 2011 02:17 tl55555 wrote:On August 05 2011 02:14 Talin wrote:On August 05 2011 02:11 tl55555 wrote:On August 05 2011 02:07 FairForever wrote:On August 05 2011 02:05 karpo wrote:On August 05 2011 02:05 MisterFred wrote:
Well, what does everyone think about Evil Geniuses NOW? You're the 100th person saying that in this thread. Realize that it's two different things. I don't want to get into an argument about this, but it does call into question a lot of things that we believed to be true from Mr. Lee, who knows if he was being deceitful... Anyway back on topic, hope someone will translate the article Mr. Lee went to the press before consulting with EG about Puma . Doesn't exactly lend to the idea of Mr. Lee being forthcoming and honest. Eh, he went to the press because EG didn't consult with him about that (or anything else). And they've had plenty of time to do so if they ever really wanted to. Also, in this case Lee (and TSL) got played again, so I'm not entirely sure why he's the bad guy. -_- Lee is a poor team manager, his team has fallen apart the past few months and it's no one's fault but his. I doubt Lee is bad at being a manager or coach, he was a MBCGame coach. Bad businessman, maybe. Well.. Startale's coach wrote a giant article basically shitting on Coach Lee. :/
Or, shedding more light on the situation
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On August 05 2011 02:25 FairForever wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 02:20 Talin wrote:On August 05 2011 02:16 FairForever wrote:On August 05 2011 02:14 Talin wrote:On August 05 2011 02:11 tl55555 wrote:On August 05 2011 02:07 FairForever wrote:On August 05 2011 02:05 karpo wrote:On August 05 2011 02:05 MisterFred wrote:
Well, what does everyone think about Evil Geniuses NOW? You're the 100th person saying that in this thread. Realize that it's two different things. I don't want to get into an argument about this, but it does call into question a lot of things that we believed to be true from Mr. Lee, who knows if he was being deceitful... Anyway back on topic, hope someone will translate the article Mr. Lee went to the press before consulting with EG about Puma . Doesn't exactly lend to the idea of Mr. Lee being forthcoming and honest. Eh, he went to the press because EG didn't consult with him about that (or anything else). And they've had plenty of time to do so if they ever really wanted to. Also, in this case Lee (and TSL) got played again, so I'm not entirely sure why he's the bad guy. -_- They got played because they withheld wages from their players (as per sc2con)... okay there, Mr. Lee is definitely the victim right? The players that didn't show up for training and didn't work for their wages, and now after they've left the team they initiated a process to fuck TSL up even more. Yeah, I'd say he's clearly the victim. If FD and Tester had even a little bit of honor and dignity they would just have let it go once they left TSL. But alas... You have to be joking me. FD and Tester earned the money by representing TSL in the GSL and GSTL, and TSL turns around and doesn't pay them for allegedly "not practicing enough". Even if it is true, that does not give TSL the right to withhold wages. I'm not saying that what FD and Tester did was ethically pure. They probably should've done a better job practicing. But what TSL did was clearly in the wrong, both legally and ethically.
You sign a contract to come to work. You don't come to work I don't pay you. How is that not simple enough for you to understand?
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United States23455 Posts
On August 05 2011 02:24 Kangdemon wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 02:07 tl55555 wrote:
I don't get why fruitdealer and tester think they can do what they want... seriously they aren't even top tier anymore and they act like assholes. respect-- They are code S players, what do you mean "not top tier"....
Tester is definitely a Code S player. FruitDealer? After watching him all these GSL's, he just isn't that good. He probably isn't even Code A level anymore. He is regressing every time I see him play in the GSL. I loved his first run for the title, but he has totally fallen behind the rest of the Koreans.
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Wow so this explains everything. They left the team like 2 weeks back I thought though.
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Having watched so many players leave TSL, and then the EG - TSL- Puma debacle, I had a feeling that there was something fishy going on inside TSL with it's management.
This confirms those suspicions.
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On August 05 2011 02:27 tl55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 02:25 FairForever wrote:On August 05 2011 02:20 Talin wrote:On August 05 2011 02:16 FairForever wrote:On August 05 2011 02:14 Talin wrote:On August 05 2011 02:11 tl55555 wrote:On August 05 2011 02:07 FairForever wrote:On August 05 2011 02:05 karpo wrote:On August 05 2011 02:05 MisterFred wrote:
Well, what does everyone think about Evil Geniuses NOW? You're the 100th person saying that in this thread. Realize that it's two different things. I don't want to get into an argument about this, but it does call into question a lot of things that we believed to be true from Mr. Lee, who knows if he was being deceitful... Anyway back on topic, hope someone will translate the article Mr. Lee went to the press before consulting with EG about Puma . Doesn't exactly lend to the idea of Mr. Lee being forthcoming and honest. Eh, he went to the press because EG didn't consult with him about that (or anything else). And they've had plenty of time to do so if they ever really wanted to. Also, in this case Lee (and TSL) got played again, so I'm not entirely sure why he's the bad guy. -_- They got played because they withheld wages from their players (as per sc2con)... okay there, Mr. Lee is definitely the victim right? The players that didn't show up for training and didn't work for their wages, and now after they've left the team they initiated a process to fuck TSL up even more. Yeah, I'd say he's clearly the victim. If FD and Tester had even a little bit of honor and dignity they would just have let it go once they left TSL. But alas... You have to be joking me. FD and Tester earned the money by representing TSL in the GSL and GSTL, and TSL turns around and doesn't pay them for allegedly "not practicing enough". Even if it is true, that does not give TSL the right to withhold wages. I'm not saying that what FD and Tester did was ethically pure. They probably should've done a better job practicing. But what TSL did was clearly in the wrong, both legally and ethically. You sign a contract to come to work. You don't come to work I don't pay you. How is that not simple enough for you to understand?
They signed written contracts?
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On August 05 2011 02:27 tl55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 02:25 FairForever wrote:On August 05 2011 02:20 Talin wrote:On August 05 2011 02:16 FairForever wrote:On August 05 2011 02:14 Talin wrote:On August 05 2011 02:11 tl55555 wrote:On August 05 2011 02:07 FairForever wrote:On August 05 2011 02:05 karpo wrote:On August 05 2011 02:05 MisterFred wrote:
Well, what does everyone think about Evil Geniuses NOW? You're the 100th person saying that in this thread. Realize that it's two different things. I don't want to get into an argument about this, but it does call into question a lot of things that we believed to be true from Mr. Lee, who knows if he was being deceitful... Anyway back on topic, hope someone will translate the article Mr. Lee went to the press before consulting with EG about Puma . Doesn't exactly lend to the idea of Mr. Lee being forthcoming and honest. Eh, he went to the press because EG didn't consult with him about that (or anything else). And they've had plenty of time to do so if they ever really wanted to. Also, in this case Lee (and TSL) got played again, so I'm not entirely sure why he's the bad guy. -_- They got played because they withheld wages from their players (as per sc2con)... okay there, Mr. Lee is definitely the victim right? The players that didn't show up for training and didn't work for their wages, and now after they've left the team they initiated a process to fuck TSL up even more. Yeah, I'd say he's clearly the victim. If FD and Tester had even a little bit of honor and dignity they would just have let it go once they left TSL. But alas... You have to be joking me. FD and Tester earned the money by representing TSL in the GSL and GSTL, and TSL turns around and doesn't pay them for allegedly "not practicing enough". Even if it is true, that does not give TSL the right to withhold wages. I'm not saying that what FD and Tester did was ethically pure. They probably should've done a better job practicing. But what TSL did was clearly in the wrong, both legally and ethically. You sign a contract to come to work. You don't come to work I don't pay you. How is that not simple enough for you to understand?
Except they were at work. They participated in the GSL and GSTL which is the crux of the services. TSL isn't paying them to practice, TSL is paying them because TSL hopes to win the GSTL and have one of their stars win the GSL.
While their performances and efforts may have been lackluster, it doesn't change the fact that they fulfilled their duties from a legal standpoint (from an ethical one, maybe not).
Considering I actually study quite a bit of business law, I'm pretty sure I have a better understanding. There may be differences with Korean and Canadian/American Law but I'm pretty sure the crux of the arguments still hold.
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On August 05 2011 02:27 zeru wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 02:24 integrity wrote:On August 05 2011 02:20 Talin wrote:On August 05 2011 02:16 FairForever wrote:On August 05 2011 02:14 Talin wrote:On August 05 2011 02:11 tl55555 wrote:On August 05 2011 02:07 FairForever wrote:On August 05 2011 02:05 karpo wrote:On August 05 2011 02:05 MisterFred wrote:
Well, what does everyone think about Evil Geniuses NOW? You're the 100th person saying that in this thread. Realize that it's two different things. I don't want to get into an argument about this, but it does call into question a lot of things that we believed to be true from Mr. Lee, who knows if he was being deceitful... Anyway back on topic, hope someone will translate the article Mr. Lee went to the press before consulting with EG about Puma . Doesn't exactly lend to the idea of Mr. Lee being forthcoming and honest. Eh, he went to the press because EG didn't consult with him about that (or anything else). And they've had plenty of time to do so if they ever really wanted to. Also, in this case Lee (and TSL) got played again, so I'm not entirely sure why he's the bad guy. -_- They got played because they withheld wages from their players (as per sc2con)... okay there, Mr. Lee is definitely the victim right? The players that didn't show up for training and didn't work for their wages, and now after they've left the team they initiated a process to fuck TSL up even more. Yeah, I'd say he's clearly the victim. If FD and Tester had even a little bit of honor and dignity they would just have let it go once they left TSL. But alas... stop making assumptions. you have no clue what FD and tester were up too. Mr lee says they were being lazy. that could mean they were playing 8 hrs a day instead of 14. my point is stop it with the useless assumptions Lee said they showed up to the house 10 out of 45 days the past one and a half months.
Lee, the guy who allegedly didn't tell his team that sponsors had paid money?
Just because the coach said something after-the-fact doesn't make it true. In fact, I hesitate to believe Lee's opinion at this point in time. It may be (or probably is) true that FD/Trickster didn't practice as much as they should, but 10 of 45 days seems an exaggeration. Regardless, it doesn't excuse the fact that TSL didn't pay them.
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Does anyone have an english translation of the ST article?
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United States33707 Posts
Toothless organization that can't actually punish unpaid salaries? I never thought anything would make me miss KeSPA...
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It seems that Startale manager, FD and Tester make a statement to clear all arguments around this issue.
http://www.playxp.com/sc2/bbs/view.php?article_id=3254338&page=5
This is Korean source, and the statement is pretty long...
If someone knows Korean, please go ahead and read.
Maybe I could translate this but it takes some amount of time.
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EPT
