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On August 05 2011 01:23 iamthedave wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 01:18 Grimsong wrote:On August 05 2011 01:17 Enervate wrote:
So does TSL still have to pay Fruitdealer and Trickster since they left SC2Con?
If not, SC2Con seems really weak. They do not have to pay FD and Trickster, since TSL has been "expelled" after they "withdrew" so they would not have to follow the terms (you know. paying back money they owed their players) they laid out. I think if this mess has highlighted anything it's how unprofessional the 'professional' starcraft scene is in its current form. We definitely need some proper contract procedures in place.
Without question. This gray area has left people completely skewed about how actual business works and creates these situations that would never have existed if handled in the proper avenues.
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On August 05 2011 01:22 ch33psh33p wrote:
Would you pay a player who shows up 10 days out of 45 for practice?
If his contract says so, you don't have a choice. The best you can do is say he's breached contract if - and only if - it specifies he must train x number of days in order to be paid.
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On August 05 2011 01:22 ch33psh33p wrote:
Would you pay a player who shows up 10 days out of 45 for practice?
Would you withhold pay they earned, giving them a legitimate grievance, or fire them with rightful cause?
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Wowowowowow. Just when TSL had some sympathy (and some antipathy, now that I think about it) built up from the PuMa fiasco, this happens.
Whatever else went wrong, Lee should have paid FD and Trickster. If the team actually had no money to pay the players, that is one thing. If the team had the money and did not, that is totally wrong.
But the bigger problem I have is the fact that the committee was made up of managers and players from other teams. These teams have no reason to be unbiased; if TSL fails that is one less competitor for them. The SC2PA should be made up of unaffiliated, third party persons, not representatives from other teams.
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No wonder Puma wanted out of that situation.
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Coach Lee really screwed up here, but the only thing I would have done differently is pay FD and Tester their monthly salary and kick them out the moment they decide they don't have to practice as much as the rest of the team.
Of course, that is with hindsight.
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After thinking about it for a bit I'm a little worried about conflict of interest during the arbitration meetings. The President of S2con is the coach of StarTale, FD/Trickster left TSL, later joined StarTale, and now S2con decides against TSL with Coach Lee suggesting the meetings were biased? More specifically this section troubles me: -협의회 회의 안건자체가 명예훼손과 과장이 심했고 거짓도 상당수 있었습니다.
There was a lot defamation and exaggeration during the meeting along with a lot of lies
-회의 목적이 '중재 회의'임에도 불구하고 협의회 회의에 준비해간 사용내역 및 금액등 에 대해 이운재감독의 의사를 무시하였습니다.
Despite the fact that it was supposed to be an arbitary meeting, the comittee ignored much of Coach Lee's statements and intentions.
-확고한 주관없는 회의과정
The lack of a strong unbiased discussion process
서기수 선수의 안건만으로 너무 빠른 판결이 난 것에 유감 이였습니다. 협의회 결정에 대해서는 이의제기를 할 수 없었습니다.
The fact that this was judged so quickly by Tricker's views is regretful. We could not appeal the decision done by the comittee.
Add FXO Boss' posts here and it doesn't help. -shrugs-
More transparency please!
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Haha looks like Puma took his chance to flee quite well 
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On August 05 2011 01:39 stormchaser wrote:Haha looks like Puma took his chance to flee quite well
He didn't run away, it was a tactical retreat!
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On August 04 2011 20:39 bovi wrote:
fruitdealer should be ashamed for taking full pay with the way he's been playing. bet he's been slouching off from practising. by far the most terrible zerg in the GSL in the past few months.
So, you would be like "oh, the shop i work in hasnt been getting good profits lately, i dont deserve my wages!" -_-
They were completely within their rights to expect their wages, i dont care if they werent practicing enough or whatever according to korean team standards, probably just means they took 5 minutes extra on their 10 minute break anyway ffs.
Coach Lee has given this "angelic" look to himself through lies and coverups IMO, this is the real him, a fucking slave driver, you wont play SC2 20 hours a day? fine. I wont fucking pay you! - Its immoral and wrong, regardless of how much effort players put in.
If they had the balls to dispute this non-payment, they obviously didnt just sit on their asses 24/7, they must've been working to some extent, and on that grounds i say they get damn well paid.
Coach Lee, you've been exposed. Good.
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rofl owned
+ Show Spoiler +EDIT: Screw it ima get banned for that, so heres my effort. Could TSL do anything/apologize in return to get back at all? They should give them another chance. (but I still think it was a LOL OWNED moment when I read the OP
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On August 05 2011 01:40 Capped wrote:
They were completely within their rights to expect their wages, i dont care if they werent practicing enough or whatever according to korean team standards, probably just means they took 5 minutes extra on their 10 minute break anyway ffs.
Coach Lee has given this "angelic" look to himself through lies and coverups IMO, this is the real him, a fucking slave driver, you wont play SC2 20 hours a day? fine. I wont fucking pay you! - Its immoral and wrong, regardless of how much effort players put in.
Your assumptions are a shining example to what TL is becoming.
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On August 05 2011 01:42 youngminii wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 01:40 Capped wrote:
They were completely within their rights to expect their wages, i dont care if they werent practicing enough or whatever according to korean team standards, probably just means they took 5 minutes extra on their 10 minute break anyway ffs.
Coach Lee has given this "angelic" look to himself through lies and coverups IMO, this is the real him, a fucking slave driver, you wont play SC2 20 hours a day? fine. I wont fucking pay you! - Its immoral and wrong, regardless of how much effort players put in. Your assumptions are a shining example to what TL is becoming.
A group of people that respect employment law?
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not surprised, all throughout the EG fiasco all I kept saying was the Mr. Lee is a bad manager/businessman and now, two weeks later, I am vindicated.
All those ppl flaming me that Mr. Lee was as holy as Mother Mary, and EG is the evil western corporation- SUCK ON THIS! This guy is crashing and burning and all TSL players should seek contracts with other teams (plzplz SK/coL)
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On August 05 2011 01:42 youngminii wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 01:40 Capped wrote:
They were completely within their rights to expect their wages, i dont care if they werent practicing enough or whatever according to korean team standards, probably just means they took 5 minutes extra on their 10 minute break anyway ffs.
Coach Lee has given this "angelic" look to himself through lies and coverups IMO, this is the real him, a fucking slave driver, you wont play SC2 20 hours a day? fine. I wont fucking pay you! - Its immoral and wrong, regardless of how much effort players put in. Your assumptions are a shining example to what TL is becoming. so true
I do however agree that it was quite unfair for Coach Lee to withhold wages, I mean come on Fruitdealer had to quit BW to support his family's shop... he needs the income. As a human being with morals, he should've used other methods to get them to practice more rigidly instead of screwing over their lives, especially with all the media drama. Seems like Coach Lee sure has a knack for running to the press.
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On August 05 2011 01:34 xBillehx wrote:After thinking about it for a bit I'm a little worried about conflict of interest during the arbitration meetings. The President of S2con is the coach of StarTale, FD/Trickster left TSL, later joined StarTale, and now S2con decides against TSL with Coach Lee suggesting the meetings were biased? More specifically this section troubles me: Show nested quote +-협의회 회의 안건자체가 명예훼손과 과장이 심했고 거짓도 상당수 있었습니다.
There was a lot defamation and exaggeration during the meeting along with a lot of lies
-회의 목적이 '중재 회의'임에도 불구하고 협의회 회의에 준비해간 사용내역 및 금액등 에 대해 이운재감독의 의사를 무시하였습니다.
Despite the fact that it was supposed to be an arbitary meeting, the comittee ignored much of Coach Lee's statements and intentions.
-확고한 주관없는 회의과정
The lack of a strong unbiased discussion process
서기수 선수의 안건만으로 너무 빠른 판결이 난 것에 유감 이였습니다. 협의회 결정에 대해서는 이의제기를 할 수 없었습니다.
The fact that this was judged so quickly by Tricker's views is regretful. We could not appeal the decision done by the comittee. Add FXO Boss' posts here and it doesn't help. -shrugs- More transparency please!
Yeah I'm eagerly awaiting more information on FOXOBOSS. I don't really want to speculate that much.
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Uhh this looks bad, TSL is right now f'd, such a bad thing to happen to any team.
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On August 05 2011 01:43 bonifaceviii wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 01:42 youngminii wrote:On August 05 2011 01:40 Capped wrote:
They were completely within their rights to expect their wages, i dont care if they werent practicing enough or whatever according to korean team standards, probably just means they took 5 minutes extra on their 10 minute break anyway ffs.
Coach Lee has given this "angelic" look to himself through lies and coverups IMO, this is the real him, a fucking slave driver, you wont play SC2 20 hours a day? fine. I wont fucking pay you! - Its immoral and wrong, regardless of how much effort players put in. Your assumptions are a shining example to what TL is becoming. A group of people that respect employment law?
No. People who make stupid assumptions and think things up without any real facts.
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Wait but does anyone actually give a fuck about this SC2 Association thing? TSL got owned, but I have a feeling foreigners don't really care.
EDIT: Read the thread about the Association, but no I still don't think a lot foreigners actually care and are just giving drama for another post.
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On August 05 2011 01:43 felizuno wrote:
not surprised, all throughout the EG fiasco all I kept saying was the Mr. Lee is a bad manager/businessman and now, two weeks later, I am vindicated.
All those ppl flaming me that Mr. Lee was as holy as Mother Mary, and EG is the evil western corporation- SUCK ON THIS! This guy is crashing and burning and all TSL players should seek contracts with other teams (plzplz SK/coL)
Congratulations, you were partially right. He seems to be a bad businessman but a bad manager/coach is another matter.
BTW. The gloating really shows how mature and cool you are...
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EPT
