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On July 22 2011 16:22 TheAmazombie wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 15:52 BackSideAttack wrote:
Due to popular demand i went ahead and compiled all the sponsors EG has listed on their website. So if anyone wants to boycott their products here they are:
Intel,
Steel Series,
Monster Energy,
Kingston HyperX,
In Win development Inc,
6 pool gaming,
BigFoot Networks,
Split Reason Clothing,
Inferno Online,
G7 Teams,
NFO Servers,
Ventrilo.net Yeah, I have to disagree. I still do not think that EG did anything wrong and they are being vilified for normal business practices and respecting certain wishes which conflicted with others. PLease do not boycott these for any reason. The sponsors can retaliate if they see fit.
Alex Garfield is the owner and executive director of EG. After how much disrespect he showed Milkis on Weapon of Choice, I have every right to boycott his team's sponsors.
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On July 22 2011 16:03 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 15:55 RANDOMCL wrote:
It isn't about contracting a player, but rather, the way they did it.
It isn't as if EG contacted the coach and they worked out a deal. If you honestly think EG sat down with every Korean player until they could coerce one to quit their team...
Based on what Xeris, TSL coach and Milkis said, that's pretty much exactly what happened. 
I certainly wouldn't put it past their management.
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On July 22 2011 16:36 Nerdslayer wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 15:52 BackSideAttack wrote:
Due to popular demand i went ahead and compiled all the sponsors EG has listed on their website. So if anyone wants to boycott their products here they are:
Intel,
Steel Series,
Monster Energy,
Kingston HyperX,
In Win development Inc,
6 pool gaming,
BigFoot Networks,
Split Reason Clothing,
Inferno Online,
G7 Teams,
NFO Servers,
Ventrilo.net EG did nothing wrong. They approach a free agent welldone EG. Matter infact thx for the sponsor list ill go support them just becuase I think what EG did was a good business move.
A free agent my ass. Under Korean culture Puma is part of TSL, even though he may not be contractually obligated.
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On July 22 2011 16:41 TheButtonmen wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 16:35 HyperLimen wrote:
So the guy EG puts on weapon of choice brags about how EG has contacted numerous Korean team's management etc. and conducted multiple buyouts for various players, but he completely fails to contact TSL's management and then follows up by trying to justify his hypocrisy for the remainder of his time on the show. Uh did you actually listen to the interview? They shopped around earlier about buying some top pro's but didn't like the transfer fees people were asking for so they then took the step of passing out business cards at the NASL finals. Puma then got in contact with them and this whole deal started, there was no hypocrisy here.
Randomly, there was a funny post in the WoC thread about how AG probably didn't convert the Korean won amount he was given to USD. I would normally scoff at this suggestion, but it actually makes sense, because there is no way that one Korean player's transfer fee would be more than the worth of their company.
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On July 22 2011 16:36 Nerdslayer wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 15:52 BackSideAttack wrote:
Due to popular demand i went ahead and compiled all the sponsors EG has listed on their website. So if anyone wants to boycott their products here they are:
Intel,
Steel Series,
Monster Energy,
Kingston HyperX,
In Win development Inc,
6 pool gaming,
BigFoot Networks,
Split Reason Clothing,
Inferno Online,
G7 Teams,
NFO Servers,
Ventrilo.net EG did nothing wrong. They approach a free agent welldone EG. Matter infact thx for the sponsor list ill go support them just becuase I think what EG did was a good business move.
I provided the information, your free to use it however you wish. While your view is antagonistic to mine, if you cycled through some of the prior comments, you'll see that there are plenty of people who would side with me on this.
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On July 22 2011 16:41 TheButtonmen wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 16:35 HyperLimen wrote:
So the guy EG puts on weapon of choice brags about how EG has contacted numerous Korean team's management etc. and conducted multiple buyouts for various players, but he completely fails to contact TSL's management and then follows up by trying to justify his hypocrisy for the remainder of his time on the show. Uh did you actually listen to the interview? They shopped around earlier about buying some top pro's but didn't like the transfer fees people were asking for so they then took the step of passing out business cards at the NASL finals. Puma then got in contact with them and this whole deal started, there was no hypocrisy here. Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 16:35 HyperLimen wrote:
This move wreaks and puts a bad face on western e-sports.
Totally killing ESPORTS, I agree. Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 16:35 HyperLimen wrote:
Am I the only one that views EG going to NASL to try and manipulate Korean players without their management present as predatory and completely unethical ? Yes. Handing out business cards is predatory, unethical and manipulative? Have you ever actually been to a business conference? You could build a goddamn fort out of all the cards you get. Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 16:35 HyperLimen wrote:
Yeah he wasn't contracted, but that was because Koreans have an honor based culture. It is radically different than the cesspool of western society where a person's word or promise is completely worthless. Hahah no. Koreans use contracts the same as everyone else, go look up Kespa and read about how it regulates it's players then try to say that with a straight face.
Did YOU actually listen to the interview ? They approached players with offers of how they would support them etc. That is completely different from harmlessly handing someone a business card.
Since when is the grand finals of a months long tournament a business conference? What a thoroughly terrible analogy.
KESPA is yet another terrible example to bring up because SC2 is not under a regulated organization.
Why did I even bother replying to your idiocy ? rofl.
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On July 22 2011 16:42 BackSideAttack wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 16:22 TheAmazombie wrote:On July 22 2011 15:52 BackSideAttack wrote:
Due to popular demand i went ahead and compiled all the sponsors EG has listed on their website. So if anyone wants to boycott their products here they are:
Intel,
Steel Series,
Monster Energy,
Kingston HyperX,
In Win development Inc,
6 pool gaming,
BigFoot Networks,
Split Reason Clothing,
Inferno Online,
G7 Teams,
NFO Servers,
Ventrilo.net Yeah, I have to disagree. I still do not think that EG did anything wrong and they are being vilified for normal business practices and respecting certain wishes which conflicted with others. PLease do not boycott these for any reason. The sponsors can retaliate if they see fit. Alex Garfield is the owner and executive director of EG. After how much disrespect he showed Milkis on Weapon of Choice, I have every right to boycott his team's sponsors.
I disagree that he disrespected him. He was clear, concise, and even apologetic at times. Milkis seemed more fiery and passionate and seemed to act disrespected, but Alex even prefaced the framing of questions and opinions as to what he meant by them. It is fine to think that and maybe Milkis was disrespected, but I never once thought that Alex was trying to at all.
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On July 22 2011 16:44 babylon wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 16:41 TheButtonmen wrote:On July 22 2011 16:35 HyperLimen wrote:
So the guy EG puts on weapon of choice brags about how EG has contacted numerous Korean team's management etc. and conducted multiple buyouts for various players, but he completely fails to contact TSL's management and then follows up by trying to justify his hypocrisy for the remainder of his time on the show. Uh did you actually listen to the interview? They shopped around earlier about buying some top pro's but didn't like the transfer fees people were asking for so they then took the step of passing out business cards at the NASL finals. Puma then got in contact with them and this whole deal started, there was no hypocrisy here. Randomly, there was a funny post in the WoC thread about how AG probably didn't convert the Korean won amount he was given to USD. I would normally scoff at this suggestion, but it actually makes sense, because there is no way that one Korean player's transfer fee would be more than the worth of their company.
Not really the Korean teams are in the terms AG uses are very very cheap, as to him a teams worth is decided by the dollar value they bring in from their sponsorships as he is looking at players as an investment and if you're getting little to no sponsorships (see TSL being kept afloat by Clide and SangHo giving back their stipends and not being able to afford to pay salaries to players like Puma) then the team is worth next to nothing.
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On July 22 2011 16:44 babylon wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 16:41 TheButtonmen wrote:On July 22 2011 16:35 HyperLimen wrote:
So the guy EG puts on weapon of choice brags about how EG has contacted numerous Korean team's management etc. and conducted multiple buyouts for various players, but he completely fails to contact TSL's management and then follows up by trying to justify his hypocrisy for the remainder of his time on the show. Uh did you actually listen to the interview? They shopped around earlier about buying some top pro's but didn't like the transfer fees people were asking for so they then took the step of passing out business cards at the NASL finals. Puma then got in contact with them and this whole deal started, there was no hypocrisy here. Randomly, there was a funny post in the WoC thread about how AG probably didn't convert the Korean won amount he was given to USD. I would normally scoff at this suggestion, but it actually makes sense, because there is no way that one Korean player's transfer fee would be more than the worth of their company.
If this turns out to be true, and the deal falls apart because of it, it may be the funniest thing to ever happen in all of esports.
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On July 22 2011 16:42 StyLeD wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 16:36 Nerdslayer wrote:On July 22 2011 15:52 BackSideAttack wrote:
Due to popular demand i went ahead and compiled all the sponsors EG has listed on their website. So if anyone wants to boycott their products here they are:
Intel,
Steel Series,
Monster Energy,
Kingston HyperX,
In Win development Inc,
6 pool gaming,
BigFoot Networks,
Split Reason Clothing,
Inferno Online,
G7 Teams,
NFO Servers,
Ventrilo.net EG did nothing wrong. They approach a free agent welldone EG. Matter infact thx for the sponsor list ill go support them just becuase I think what EG did was a good business move. A free agent my ass. Under Korean culture Puma is part of TSL, even though he may not be contractually obligated.
lol good luck trying that in court.
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On July 22 2011 16:41 TheAmazombie wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 16:35 HyperLimen wrote:
So the guy EG puts on weapon of choice brags about how EG has contacted numerous Korean team's management etc. and conducted multiple buyouts for various players, but he completely fails to contact TSL's management and then follows up by trying to justify his hypocrisy for the remainder of his time on the show.
This move wreaks and puts a bad face on western e-sports.
Am I the only one that views EG going to NASL to try and manipulate Korean players without their management present as predatory and completely unethical ?
Yeah he wasn't contracted, but that was because Koreans have an honor based culture. It is radically different than the cesspool of western society where a person's word or promise is completely worthless. I am sure other teams where there talking to some Koreans fist of all. Second, how is talking to a player "manipulating?" Also, our culture is different. Why is it so wrong for a team to approach a player as our culture sees okay without "respecting" Korean culture when the Korean teams also did not seem to make an effort to teach there players about American culture? It is a double standard to expect everyone to conform without educating their players as well, and they may have, which makes it more okay because that means that there was no "manipulation", as you put it, at all.
I have never seen an assertion rapidly degenerate into pointless rambling over semantics like your post did.
EG is obviously indifferent to how they are perceived by Korean culture, and they are emboldened by the moronic multitude that constitutes their target demographic for their sponsors that reside in the west. They showed absolutely no respect to TSL and approaching a player with promises of how you will support them and fly them around the world etc. is simultaneously predatory and manipulative.
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Kind of weird that Puma just randomly choose EG(I listened to the latest Weapon of Choice). He definitely was dissatisfied with TSL but I felt that it is rather odd that he would just leave after winning a major tournament. Was this his intention? To leave his team after he prove himself a champion quality player. This was handled badly by both side.
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On July 22 2011 16:46 HyperLimen wrote:
Did YOU actually listen to the interview ? They approached players with offers of how they would support them etc. That is completely different from harmlessly handing someone a business card.
Since when is the grand finals of a months long tournament a business conference? What a thoroughly terrible analogy.
KESPA is yet another terrible example to bring up because SC2 is not under a regulated organization.
Why did I even bother replying to your idiocy ? rofl.
No, EG (Alex) was there looking for players, something that is completely ok. The reason he made contact with Sen is because Sen's contract ends soon, and if he simply asked do you have any interest in joining EG, that is also ok. Alex said he was handing out business cards then handed one out to Puma. Puma showed interest and asked about details. Alex told him the details and Puma and Alex decided it would be better to let Puma explain it to coach Lee. The miscommunication occurs somewhere between coach Lee and Puma. And the reason he pointed out KESPA is because you seem to think that in korea deals are made with trust not contracts.
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EG has always been a scummy organization with no real morals or ethics. Hopefully some of their sponsors realize that EG could be a negative influence and pull their money and put it towards a team that actually has some ethics. I already know I will not buy Kingston, SteelSeries or Monster products in the future.
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On July 22 2011 16:49 Nerdslayer wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 16:42 StyLeD wrote:On July 22 2011 16:36 Nerdslayer wrote:On July 22 2011 15:52 BackSideAttack wrote:
Due to popular demand i went ahead and compiled all the sponsors EG has listed on their website. So if anyone wants to boycott their products here they are:
Intel,
Steel Series,
Monster Energy,
Kingston HyperX,
In Win development Inc,
6 pool gaming,
BigFoot Networks,
Split Reason Clothing,
Inferno Online,
G7 Teams,
NFO Servers,
Ventrilo.net EG did nothing wrong. They approach a free agent welldone EG. Matter infact thx for the sponsor list ill go support them just becuase I think what EG did was a good business move. A free agent my ass. Under Korean culture Puma is part of TSL, even though he may not be contractually obligated. lol good luck trying that in court.
Yeah, it is still a fact that Koreans have contracts for a reason but they were choosing not to use them. Honor system is nice and all, but in professional sports they cannot be trusted and it would be naive to think so. Just because a player tells an agent that he will sign with X team who has given his training facilities or whatever does not mean by any stretch of the imagination that he will and all agents in all professional sports should know that. If they trust a player otherwise and it turns on them, it is the agent or management that has egg on their face, not the player.
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On July 22 2011 16:47 TheAmazombie wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 16:42 BackSideAttack wrote:On July 22 2011 16:22 TheAmazombie wrote:On July 22 2011 15:52 BackSideAttack wrote:
Due to popular demand i went ahead and compiled all the sponsors EG has listed on their website. So if anyone wants to boycott their products here they are:
Intel,
Steel Series,
Monster Energy,
Kingston HyperX,
In Win development Inc,
6 pool gaming,
BigFoot Networks,
Split Reason Clothing,
Inferno Online,
G7 Teams,
NFO Servers,
Ventrilo.net Yeah, I have to disagree. I still do not think that EG did anything wrong and they are being vilified for normal business practices and respecting certain wishes which conflicted with others. PLease do not boycott these for any reason. The sponsors can retaliate if they see fit. Alex Garfield is the owner and executive director of EG. After how much disrespect he showed Milkis on Weapon of Choice, I have every right to boycott his team's sponsors. I disagree that he disrespected him. He was clear, concise, and even apologetic at times. Milkis seemed more fiery and passionate and seemed to act disrespected, but Alex even prefaced the framing of questions and opinions as to what he meant by them. It is fine to think that and maybe Milkis was disrespected, but I never once thought that Alex was trying to at all.
Yup..."I don't mean to be accusatory" --> accusation. He was running his mouth around in circles with no one to stop him at all. Whether or not he was *trying* to do that is irrelevant, to most he came off sounding like a total douche.
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On July 22 2011 16:42 StyLeD wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 16:36 Nerdslayer wrote:On July 22 2011 15:52 BackSideAttack wrote:
Due to popular demand i went ahead and compiled all the sponsors EG has listed on their website. So if anyone wants to boycott their products here they are:
Intel,
Steel Series,
Monster Energy,
Kingston HyperX,
In Win development Inc,
6 pool gaming,
BigFoot Networks,
Split Reason Clothing,
Inferno Online,
G7 Teams,
NFO Servers,
Ventrilo.net EG did nothing wrong. They approach a free agent welldone EG. Matter infact thx for the sponsor list ill go support them just becuase I think what EG did was a good business move. A free agent my ass. Under Korean culture Puma is part of TSL, even though he may not be contractually obligated.
Puma is Korean and he doesn't think he's a part of TSL. Korea is not a 100% uniform country. Different people have different ideas. Your post is extra meaningless if you aren't even Korean.
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On July 22 2011 16:52 Acidosis wrote:
Kind of weird that Puma just randomly choose EG(I listened to the latest Weapon of Choice). He definitely was dissatisfied with TSL but I felt that it is rather odd that he would just leave after winning a major tournament. Was this his intention? To leave his team after he prove himself a champion quality player. This was handled badly by both side.
Well, by winning the major tourney he now had some financial freedom to make these decisions. Yeah, I agree with you but in the end this is a job. No one gets mad if I leave my company after years of supporting me and training me and go to another company with a better offer.
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On July 22 2011 15:52 BackSideAttack wrote:
Due to popular demand i went ahead and compiled all the sponsors EG has listed on their website. So if anyone wants to boycott their products here they are:
Intel,
Steel Series,
Monster Energy,
Kingston HyperX,
In Win development Inc,
6 pool gaming,
BigFoot Networks,
Split Reason Clothing,
Inferno Online,
G7 Teams,
NFO Servers,
Ventrilo.net
Thanks for giving me a list of companies to support. Gonna buy even more MONSTER now.
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On July 22 2011 16:48 TheButtonmen wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 16:44 babylon wrote:On July 22 2011 16:41 TheButtonmen wrote:On July 22 2011 16:35 HyperLimen wrote:
So the guy EG puts on weapon of choice brags about how EG has contacted numerous Korean team's management etc. and conducted multiple buyouts for various players, but he completely fails to contact TSL's management and then follows up by trying to justify his hypocrisy for the remainder of his time on the show. Uh did you actually listen to the interview? They shopped around earlier about buying some top pro's but didn't like the transfer fees people were asking for so they then took the step of passing out business cards at the NASL finals. Puma then got in contact with them and this whole deal started, there was no hypocrisy here. Randomly, there was a funny post in the WoC thread about how AG probably didn't convert the Korean won amount he was given to USD. I would normally scoff at this suggestion, but it actually makes sense, because there is no way that one Korean player's transfer fee would be more than the worth of their company. Not really the Korean teams are in the terms AG uses are very very cheap, as to him a teams worth is decided by the dollar value they bring in from their sponsorships as he is looking at players as an investment and if you're getting little to no sponsorships (see TSL being kept afloat by Clide and SangHo giving back their stipends and not being able to afford to pay salaries to players like Puma) then the team is worth next to nothing.
I think we're talking past each other here. Either that or I'm wayyyyy tired - it's 4AM right now, why the hell am I awake? - but when I say "their company," I mean that Alex was referring to the value of EG. Now, I certainly don't know how much EG is worth, but it's got to be pretty damn high, right? I mean, it's unlikely that the Koreans were asking for hundreds of thousands of dollars just for the transfer of one player.
Honestly, very little about this makes any sense, which I guess is a signal for me to go to bed.
EDIT: Also, why the fuck would you buy Monster? That shit's unhealthy for you.
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EPT
