|
On July 22 2011 01:32 enecateReAP wrote:
I challange each and every one of you, to stay in your current job and never move up - because then you'll be betraying your former employer!
In the real world, you don't offer a person's job to the person's boss, you offer it to the person, then it is THEIR DECISSION weather they accept. This was the case here.
Without TSL, he wouldn't have a practice house
Without TSL, he wouldn't have a salary
Without TSL he wouldn't have gotten to show how good he is in the team league.
Without TSL, he wouldn't have convenient practice partners to play with. (oh please don't list that koreans practice with ppl from other teams, they were all people who have been eliminated from the gsl, if they were still in the gsl they would have been too busy to practice from someone from another team)
Without a team, he could have not entered the NASL open tournament
Without TSL, he would have never gotten a plane ticket
Without TSL, Puma would be a fucking nobody.
So puma can just leave cause he is a sell out with lack of respect?
And you people can't see anything wrong with that?
User was temp banned for this post.
|
On July 22 2011 01:37 Lankeer wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 01:35 TheDougler wrote:On July 22 2011 01:30 Lankeer wrote:On July 22 2011 01:29 vyyye wrote:On July 22 2011 01:27 Lankeer wrote:On July 22 2011 01:26 rofa wrote:
I agree with everyone saying that this is a great move for EG. Sure, it sucks for the TSL team and management, having helped train and support Puma but the bottom line is that this will be awesome for the foreign scene. I hope that more foreign teams follow suit! EG FIGHTING!!! Yeah who gives a shit about the TSL players and management. Who gives a shit about the Korean moral values; as long as the foreign scene benefits then everyone else can go to hell. /sarcasm If the Koreans can't even sign contracts then yeah, they should have seen it coming. Puma has a salary now, does he not? He wasn't the property of TSL. You don't understand >.< Even if there was no contract, it doesn't give EG the right to go behind TSL's back and steal their most valuable player. It's basic ethics and respect. No, YOU don't understand. I think if you look up the word "steal" you'll find that no definition says "paying more money than somebody else to aquire one of their goods". TSL isn't STEALING anything and so I don't see how ethics factors into this buisness transaction. It's not stealing, it's not insider trading, it's not fraud, it's just a team, seeing a free agent, and thinking "wow, he'd be good on my team". A coach doesn't own the rights to a player unless they've made him sign a contract. Without signing a contract means EG DOES HAVE THE RIGHT. That's exactly what that means. They have the legal right sure, but that doesn't stop it being disrespectful and wrong.
Sorry miss-edit.
|
On July 22 2011 01:34 bonifaceviii wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 01:30 Lankeer wrote:On July 22 2011 01:29 vyyye wrote:On July 22 2011 01:27 Lankeer wrote:On July 22 2011 01:26 rofa wrote:
I agree with everyone saying that this is a great move for EG. Sure, it sucks for the TSL team and management, having helped train and support Puma but the bottom line is that this will be awesome for the foreign scene. I hope that more foreign teams follow suit! EG FIGHTING!!! Yeah who gives a shit about the TSL players and management. Who gives a shit about the Korean moral values; as long as the foreign scene benefits then everyone else can go to hell. /sarcasm If the Koreans can't even sign contracts then yeah, they should have seen it coming. Puma has a salary now, does he not? He wasn't the property of TSL. You don't understand >.< Even if there was no contract, it doesn't give EG the right to go behind TSL's back and steal their most valuable player. It's basic ethics and respect. Oh yeah, because that's exactly what EG did. They stole into the TSL house in the middle of the night in balaclavas, held a chloroform-soaked rag over PuMa's face and threw him into the back of a van. The van drove to an American air force base, and they smuggled PuMa's lifeless body out of Korea in a cargo plane. PuMa is now being held captive in America against his will, chained to a desk in the EG house.
Haha, that's way better stated than I did. Worthy of quoting so other people see.
|
On July 22 2011 01:39 doihy wrote:
Without TSL, Puma would be a fucking nobody.
Shows how much you know.
|
On July 22 2011 01:34 stratmatt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 01:30 Lankeer wrote:On July 22 2011 01:29 vyyye wrote:On July 22 2011 01:27 Lankeer wrote:On July 22 2011 01:26 rofa wrote:
I agree with everyone saying that this is a great move for EG. Sure, it sucks for the TSL team and management, having helped train and support Puma but the bottom line is that this will be awesome for the foreign scene. I hope that more foreign teams follow suit! EG FIGHTING!!! Yeah who gives a shit about the TSL players and management. Who gives a shit about the Korean moral values; as long as the foreign scene benefits then everyone else can go to hell. /sarcasm If the Koreans can't even sign contracts then yeah, they should have seen it coming. Puma has a salary now, does he not? He wasn't the property of TSL. You don't understand >.< Even if there was no contract, it doesn't give EG the right to go behind TSL's back and steal their most valuable player. It's basic ethics and respect. basic ethics and respect... are you kidding me? They didnt go behind anybodies back. It would be going behind Puma's back if they talked to tsl before talking to him. TSL isnt owed a thing obviously and are powerless to control where their players leave to, especially because they apparently didnt have any contract setup. This was Puma's best chance to make the most out of where his career has gone to this point. Coming off a major tournament victory, it is unlikly he will see a similar fofer in the future unless he keeps up his game. Awesome move for both parties!
How is EG going to help him keep up his game? Practicing with InControl? Rofl.
|
On July 22 2011 01:21 Walls wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 01:19 bonifaceviii wrote:On July 22 2011 01:14 Walls wrote:On July 22 2011 01:12 bonifaceviii wrote:On July 22 2011 01:05 Luppy1 wrote:
Some of you are saying it like there's absolutely nothing wrong with how it's done simply because there's no rule that disallows this from happening. Yes. And? "Yes and?" what, he's trying to say that a team with a lower skill level should not try to bipass the coaches and go directly talk to the player and buy them out, not even if their skill level was higher they still should not have done it, Your whole argument is that team EG sucks and therefore shouldn't have the right to buy better players to fix that. That's bizarre, but whatever. My argument is about team EG acquiring a player without talking to the manager of the other team, the fact that team EG is a lesser team worsen this even more.
Why would it matter if EG is a "lesser" team in terms of skill level? You need to stop arguing because you're just embarrassing yourself.
|
On July 22 2011 01:39 doihy wrote:
Without TSL, Puma would be a fucking nobody.
Looks like somebody doesn't know what they're talking about...
|
i still feel like we definitely need a lot more informations about that before anyone could decide if that was biased/bm or not tbh,...
|
The most recent Live On Three (fast forward to 48:00) talks about the exact same situation that happened between SK and Fnatic. The interview sheds some light on how player contracts are handled and the reality of teams acquiring already signed players.
|
On July 22 2011 01:39 doihy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 01:32 enecateReAP wrote:
I challange each and every one of you, to stay in your current job and never move up - because then you'll be betraying your former employer!
In the real world, you don't offer a person's job to the person's boss, you offer it to the person, then it is THEIR DECISSION weather they accept. This was the case here. Without TSL, he wouldn't have a practice house Without TSL, he wouldn't have a salary Without TSL he wouldn't have gotten to show how good he is in the team league. Without TSL, he wouldn't have convenient practice partners to play with. (oh please don't list that koreans practice with ppl from other teams, they were all people who have been eliminated from the gsl, if they were still in the gsl they would have been too busy to practice from someone from another team) Without a team, he could have not entered the NASL open tournament Without TSL, he would have never gotten a plane ticket Without TSL, Puma would be a fucking nobody. So puma can just leave cause he is a sell out with lack of respect? And you people can't see anything wrong with that?
by your logic you should stay at your own home and be a servant to your parents. or work forever at your entry level job.
seems like we're all fucking sellouts with no respect.
|
So you getting offer a better job. Would they talk to your boss first ask if it so? no. This is basically puma's job
|
On July 22 2011 01:38 archangel2 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 01:36 jiveturkey wrote:On July 22 2011 01:34 archangel2 wrote:On July 22 2011 01:30 jiveturkey wrote:On July 22 2011 01:13 archangel2 wrote:On July 22 2011 01:11 jiveturkey wrote:On July 22 2011 01:05 Luppy1 wrote:
I would agree with Milkis. Really no respect at all. I feel this is entirely about ethnics and values. Also, this isn't surprising for me that so many people in the west simply don't get what's so wrong about this. Some of you are just brought up differently and have a different set of values.
Some of you are saying it like there's absolutely nothing wrong with how it's done simply because there's no rule that disallows this from happening. I was going to give an example. But, I'm pretty sure someone will just intentionally look at the example from an extreme point of view just to say it's invalid. It's unethical from your point of view, and ethical from other people's perspective. That does not mean that it is unethical. It is what it is. The transaction took place, and two parties benefit and one party loses out. That is the fact of the matter, and all of your moral issues with it are completely opinion, and that is all. And I think it's obvious that law is completely irrelevant to morality, I don't think many people would disagree with that. Are you kidding? So much of law stems from morality. How would you write laws without a prior concept of what's right and wrong? Why is there a law against murder? Theft? Etc. Oh. So slavery was ethical when it was legal but then because unethical when it was illegal? Are you saying that what is ethical and unethical changes over time? It has to since laws change all the time. No, legality in no way implies morality. It's extremely obvious. No, morals and ethics change over time and place. And laws change with them. lol. Ok, so rape is only wrong today, but if the law changes tomorrow, then tomorrow rape is not bad? You're still not getting the point. Ethics don't depend on laws (and I never argued that they did). It's the other way around. Obviously it's not applicable universally, but it is in the vast majority of cases. I don't understand why you're making the argument you're making, it's not even relevant. Because you were trying to say that laws have anything to do with what is right or wrong. There is no logical link other than legislators make laws based on certain opinions. It is irrelevant to what is the case and what is not the case with regard to ethics.
|
If you think that not talking to the coach first is not a big deal, you're wrong.. its very shameful and might encourage them to generalize the foreigner scene.
|
i think there is a big distinction people need to realize that trading players from team to team in sports is very different process from hiring employees from competitors at a normal business.
|
This is a real fascinating moment in time for eSports. Makes me think of Curt Flood and free-agency in Baseball and when pro tennis first formed. Short history lesson, many players were banned from entering the most prestigious tournaments unless they kept "amateur" status.
This is only the start, we could see agents for players and player unions forming.
Should be interesting and great, savvy move by EG.
|
I really think this was a bad decision by Puma. Being out of the TSL house deprives him of the Korean-level practice that he gets everyday. Going to live with EG will definitely bring down his skill level over time in my opinion.
|
On July 22 2011 01:34 Walls wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 01:32 enecateReAP wrote:
I challange each and every one of you, to stay in your current job and never move up - because then you'll be betraying your former employer!
In the real world, you don't offer a person's job to the person's boss, you offer it to the person, then it is THEIR DECISSION weather they accept. This was the case here. Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 01:30 flanksteak wrote:
Next time you're offered a better job than you're working currently, be sure to turn it down out of loyalty We are simply flaming EG because they did not talk to coach lee first, do have anything to say about that? or is that not big of a deal ? very disrespectful.
It isn't their job to talk to coach Lee, it is Pumas. And Puma DID talk to coach lee.
EG showed no disrespect, they offered Puma a job, allowed him to go to Korea and discuss it, Puma accepted, Coach Lee is mad that his team is falling apart and Puma was his last hope. ^_^
|
I remember hearing a lot about how Puma was a practice legend for top tier Korean BW players during the NASL finals. This could be huge for Idra, and gives EG a leg up in any foreign team events. Well done EG.
|
On July 22 2011 01:39 doihy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 01:32 enecateReAP wrote:
I challange each and every one of you, to stay in your current job and never move up - because then you'll be betraying your former employer!
In the real world, you don't offer a person's job to the person's boss, you offer it to the person, then it is THEIR DECISSION weather they accept. This was the case here. Without TSL, he wouldn't have a practice house Without TSL, he wouldn't have a salary Without TSL he wouldn't have gotten to show how good he is in the team league. Without TSL, he wouldn't have convenient practice partners to play with. (oh please don't list that koreans practice with ppl from other teams, they were all people who have been eliminated from the gsl, if they were still in the gsl they would have been too busy to practice from someone from another team) Without a team, he could have not entered the NASL open tournament Without TSL, he would have never gotten a plane ticket Without TSL, Puma would be a fucking nobody. So puma can just leave cause he is a sell out with lack of respect? And you people can't see anything wrong with that?
Then protect your investment with the correct contract, if you invest in someone like that.
Disrespect is TSL expecting Puma to play for them unquestioned without offering him the correct contract, securing his services, while giving him what he deserves for working with TSL.
|
On July 22 2011 01:39 doihy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 01:32 enecateReAP wrote:
I challange each and every one of you, to stay in your current job and never move up - because then you'll be betraying your former employer!
In the real world, you don't offer a person's job to the person's boss, you offer it to the person, then it is THEIR DECISSION weather they accept. This was the case here. Without TSL, he wouldn't have a practice house Without TSL, he wouldn't have a salary Without TSL he wouldn't have gotten to show how good he is in the team league. Without TSL, he wouldn't have convenient practice partners to play with. (oh please don't list that koreans practice with ppl from other teams, they were all people who have been eliminated from the gsl, if they were still in the gsl they would have been too busy to practice from someone from another team) Without a team, he could have not entered the NASL open tournament Without TSL, he would have never gotten a plane ticket Without TSL, Puma would be a fucking nobody. So puma can just leave cause he is a sell out with lack of respect? And you people can't see anything wrong with that?
One of the worst posts in this nearly 200 pages thread.
Nothing much to add from what others said, you just dont know anything you're talking about.
And your logic is really really stupid.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
