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On June 23 2011 09:16 thesundowners wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 09:12 Ridiculisk wrote:
I'm confused as to why adding a LAN feature will cause a decrease in sales and an increase in Piracy???
Is it just becasue people will pirate the game to play with their friends at home? Off the ladder?
I would have thought that adding additional features to one of your best selling games, especially features that the players WANT, would increase sales, not decrease them??? Because there's really no way to make sure that somebody playing on a LAN actually bought your game. And the fact that Starcraft 2 is already ridiculously pirated should probably tell you that if you give a feature that esentially encourages piracy is probably going to inflate those numbers even more
Again, how does it encourage piracy beyond the level that it already is?
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On June 23 2011 09:14 Zeke50100 wrote:
What does LAN have to do with increasing piracy, again? The only people who would pirate for LAN are the same people who would pirate for single player, which has been done. Unless, of course, you can somehow create a replication of Battle.net's ladder system and easily accessible user base in one neat package and make it available in LAN mode?
Maybe you don't live in a place where piracy is that rampart, but WC3, an RTS just like SC2, has A LOT more players playing the pirated version, specially on China, I believe.
You have things like Garena for matchmaking, you can have "fake" battle nets. I paid for WC3 and it's expansion, but still played on these kind of places, because noone over here played on battle net, because 90% of them didn't pay for the game.
The idea that you only play with people you know on LAN is not corret anymore.
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On June 23 2011 09:12 Vandal_heart wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 09:10 Seam wrote:On June 23 2011 09:06 Vandal_heart wrote:
Citation very much needed...
Really tired of some of the stuff thats done to screw over gamers in the fight against piracy. DRM that slows down pirated releases for a whole evening of some script kiddies time, and is removed for the non paying customer. One time use codes so you have to keep track of account details if you think youll want to replay a game at some point. And no lan, so you can watch MLG and see Incontrol's face get increasingly more FFFFFUUUUU as the connection to bnet lags. Again, I WANT LAN. I know it sucks we have to deal with it, but again, it makes sense they would do it. I'm getting tired of being screwed over to deal with pirates too, but until there aren't any(LOL) we have to deal with it. Again, "This is why we can't have nice things". It was citation needed for the "LAN would make the game be pirated a ton" section.
ICCup, for one.
Or the fact that 3.2 million were pirated already, and that's only for single player?
Offering Free mutiplayer to pirates too?
Starcraft 1 was pirated Millions of times, what makes you think Starcraft 2 wont in a time where pirating is much more common?
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On June 23 2011 09:18 Seam wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 09:12 Vandal_heart wrote:On June 23 2011 09:10 Seam wrote:On June 23 2011 09:06 Vandal_heart wrote:
Citation very much needed...
Really tired of some of the stuff thats done to screw over gamers in the fight against piracy. DRM that slows down pirated releases for a whole evening of some script kiddies time, and is removed for the non paying customer. One time use codes so you have to keep track of account details if you think youll want to replay a game at some point. And no lan, so you can watch MLG and see Incontrol's face get increasingly more FFFFFUUUUU as the connection to bnet lags. Again, I WANT LAN. I know it sucks we have to deal with it, but again, it makes sense they would do it. I'm getting tired of being screwed over to deal with pirates too, but until there aren't any(LOL) we have to deal with it. Again, "This is why we can't have nice things". It was citation needed for the "LAN would make the game be pirated a ton" section. ICCup, for one. Or the fact that 3.2 million were pirated already, and that's only for single player? Offering Free mutiplayer to pirates too? Starcraft 1 was pirated Millions of times, what makes you think Starcraft 2 wont in a time where pirating is much more common?
ICCup wasn't LAN.
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On June 23 2011 09:17 Zeke50100 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 09:16 thesundowners wrote:On June 23 2011 09:12 Ridiculisk wrote:
I'm confused as to why adding a LAN feature will cause a decrease in sales and an increase in Piracy???
Is it just becasue people will pirate the game to play with their friends at home? Off the ladder?
I would have thought that adding additional features to one of your best selling games, especially features that the players WANT, would increase sales, not decrease them??? Because there's really no way to make sure that somebody playing on a LAN actually bought your game. And the fact that Starcraft 2 is already ridiculously pirated should probably tell you that if you give a feature that esentially encourages piracy is probably going to inflate those numbers even more Again, how does it encourage piracy beyond the level that it already is?
Allowing people to do more without actually buying the game? And you don't see how that will cause more people to pirate it?
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On June 23 2011 09:20 thesundowners wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 09:17 Zeke50100 wrote:On June 23 2011 09:16 thesundowners wrote:On June 23 2011 09:12 Ridiculisk wrote:
I'm confused as to why adding a LAN feature will cause a decrease in sales and an increase in Piracy???
Is it just becasue people will pirate the game to play with their friends at home? Off the ladder?
I would have thought that adding additional features to one of your best selling games, especially features that the players WANT, would increase sales, not decrease them??? Because there's really no way to make sure that somebody playing on a LAN actually bought your game. And the fact that Starcraft 2 is already ridiculously pirated should probably tell you that if you give a feature that esentially encourages piracy is probably going to inflate those numbers even more Again, how does it encourage piracy beyond the level that it already is? Allowing people to do more without actually buying the game? And you don't see how that will cause more people to pirate it?
By your logic, they shouldn't add Lurkers to the game, either, because it would be a new feature that attracts people to buy and/or pirate the game >______<
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Just for reference. Right now over 5k people are downloading sc2 and pirating it. at 50 a peice. There is something like 300,000 in lost sales just for today. assuming on average sc2 get pirated the same amount for the last 6 months and for the entire 2011.
That means in 2011 alone. sc2 was pirated and lost blizz more than 3.6 million. Thats a huge amount fo money.
I think in 2010 the most pirated gameswas sc2 with like 1.2 million pirated it. Thats hundreds of millions of dollars lost.
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On June 23 2011 09:20 thesundowners wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 09:17 Zeke50100 wrote:On June 23 2011 09:16 thesundowners wrote:On June 23 2011 09:12 Ridiculisk wrote:
I'm confused as to why adding a LAN feature will cause a decrease in sales and an increase in Piracy???
Is it just becasue people will pirate the game to play with their friends at home? Off the ladder?
I would have thought that adding additional features to one of your best selling games, especially features that the players WANT, would increase sales, not decrease them??? Because there's really no way to make sure that somebody playing on a LAN actually bought your game. And the fact that Starcraft 2 is already ridiculously pirated should probably tell you that if you give a feature that esentially encourages piracy is probably going to inflate those numbers even more Again, how does it encourage piracy beyond the level that it already is? Allowing people to do more without actually buying the game? And you don't see how that will cause more people to pirate it?
And you don't see how that could cause more people to buy it? You set up an SC2 LAN party and invite 20 friends, only 5 of which even have the game. You pirate, share it and have a blast. A few of those 15 that didn't have it want to start laddering and go buy the game.
Piracy isn't a 100% black hole of money, you know.
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On June 23 2011 09:18 Zeke50100 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 09:18 Seam wrote:On June 23 2011 09:12 Vandal_heart wrote:On June 23 2011 09:10 Seam wrote:On June 23 2011 09:06 Vandal_heart wrote:
Citation very much needed...
Really tired of some of the stuff thats done to screw over gamers in the fight against piracy. DRM that slows down pirated releases for a whole evening of some script kiddies time, and is removed for the non paying customer. One time use codes so you have to keep track of account details if you think youll want to replay a game at some point. And no lan, so you can watch MLG and see Incontrol's face get increasingly more FFFFFUUUUU as the connection to bnet lags. Again, I WANT LAN. I know it sucks we have to deal with it, but again, it makes sense they would do it. I'm getting tired of being screwed over to deal with pirates too, but until there aren't any(LOL) we have to deal with it. Again, "This is why we can't have nice things". It was citation needed for the "LAN would make the game be pirated a ton" section. ICCup, for one. Or the fact that 3.2 million were pirated already, and that's only for single player? Offering Free mutiplayer to pirates too? Starcraft 1 was pirated Millions of times, what makes you think Starcraft 2 wont in a time where pirating is much more common? ICCup wasn't LAN.
iccup was possible BECAUSE OF LAN MODE.
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On June 23 2011 09:16 theOnslaught wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 09:10 VirGin wrote:On June 23 2011 08:57 theOnslaught wrote:On June 23 2011 08:54 VirGin wrote:On June 23 2011 08:47 theOnslaught wrote:On June 23 2011 08:42 Khao wrote:On June 23 2011 08:35 theOnslaught wrote:On June 23 2011 08:32 VirGin wrote:
To the people who say pirates would not buy games anyway - so there is no sale lost; Of course there are sales lost. Certainly not ALL pirates would buy the game anyway (I myself have pirated tons of games I would never buy, but also some I would in fact buy, if I couldnt get them for free.) but a fair percentage probably would. People that pirate and wont buy, are only affecting rentals if anything, because they're basically the same thing (except one is legal), you dont want to buy the full game, but you want to test it first, so you either rent it or pirate it, if you like it you buy it. I dont know you but i have a subscription to grooveshark, and i barely ever buy a music disc... just because a disk has 1 or 2 good songs, that doesnt mean its worth $10+ usd. Pricing is just as wrong as pirating. I would strongly disagree with pricing being considered as wrong as piracy. Piracy happens whether or not the developer approves of it. Pricing is primarily determined by the market, the consumers willingness to buy the product given the circumstances of the market. Piracy is theft, it may be justified but it is intellectual theft regardless. Pricing gives the consumer a choice of whether or not they want it or not. The pricing is wrong because they're not considering that most people is already too tight to have money to spare for entertainment, We're on a global economy crisis, people dont spend money because they dont have it, if we were all rich as fuck, and still, taking things (Like Lindslay lohan), it would be wrong, obviusly. We're not talking about stealing a frikking ferrari here, we're talking about basic entertainment, that can make you better at alot of things in life. RTS for example, are great at making you great at quick thinking, and desicion making. MMORPGS are fantastic at making people good at problem solving, and team play. Games are great training for life, and a great stress relief in a world filled with just bad things. For anyone to be able to buy, and play games, watchs movies, etc. should be a human right, and priced accordingly. O.O The people that make games are not doing it for charity. Same way the people that make beds don't do it because they would just love to give people a good nights sleep. They do it to make money. Is it a human right to have a bed? It's most certainly not a human right to play games or watch movies. Who said i wanted it free?, i buy my stuff, but just because i have access, and money, that doesnt mean i dont have emphaty for those who dont. Im not asking for anything free, but you know whats worse than theft?, the fact that we're allowing all the money to go to a few, while 90% or more of this worlds population just keeps rotting with nothing at all to fall on. Just look at the music industry, they say they're broke becuase they cant afford 5 more ferraris ? cmon dude, they're still fucking rich, just not RICHER, there should be a limit in the amounts of money somone can hold, its just retarded for us to want to accumulate money into a couple bank accounts, those guys will never return it to the people, and thats why we're so screwed. We should care about the hard-working people, not the assholes that're just investing the money, trying to get sick returns from them. AGAIN, i repeat, i dont want anything for free, i just wish it was priced so anyone could enjoy it, we're talking about basic things here, not luxury items. Food is a basic thing. Shelter. Clothes. Medical care, so you don't die. Those are basic things. A video game is a luxury item. If you can't afford it, tough luck. You won't die. For the record, the ones that are hurt the most by piracy are the small studios. And the small time musicians. Those that need to work a daytime job to afford the studio time to put their album out. Those guys are hurt the most by piracy. But that doesn't matter. You can't steal a guys ferrari just because he has a porsche and a lamborghini too. It's still illegal. I don't see your argument really. Consumers control the price. Everyone can afford games in my country. Maybe not EVERY SINGLE game they want, but let's face it. Almost no one can afford EVERYTHING they want. Such is life. Thats where you got it wrong buddy, Entertainment, Love, Food, Shelter, etc are all required. Just because you can survive off water, and a roof, it doesn't mean you're a balanced, happy individual. Entertainment should never be a luxury, its part of what makes us balanced, smarter, etc. Its like saying education, or the internet is a luxury, if you think that then you're just sheeple and retarded. For sustainability to be achieved, all the basic needs of a human begin need to be covered, and for human intellect to grow, we need things like games, school, and love. i own alot of luxury items, i have a razer destructor, a logitech g15, a razer abyuss, and sennheisers pc360 as headphones. Those are luxury items, the right to have a computer with internet, and be able to play a couple games should not be!, those games are making us smarter as a whole. For example, im mexican and my primary language is spanish (obviusly), well, i learnt most of the english i know(which is obviusly not perfect, and flawed, but still good enough to communicate with you guys), thanks to starcraft and my desire to communicate with more people to be able to get better training. This things are good for humanity.
And yet somehow, for millions of years humanity has survived without internet and playing games. VirGin is right, playing games is not basic, it is indeed a luxury. Even if it wasn't, I can make that argument by saying that given decreasing amount of personal wealth, games would go before food and shelter. That argument alone means that he is not a "sheeple and retarded". I don't even see what sheeple has to do with it, since sheeple implies multiple and VirGin is just one guy.
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On June 23 2011 09:21 masterbreti wrote:
Just for reference. Right now over 5k people are downloading sc2 and pirating it. at 50 a peice. There is something like 300,000 in lost sales just for today. assuming on average sc2 get pirated the same amount for the last 6 months and for the entire 2011.
That means in 2011 alone. sc2 was pirated and lost blizz more than 3.6 million. Thats a huge amount fo money.
I think in 2010 the most pirated gameswas sc2 with like 1.2 million pirated it. Thats hundreds of millions of dollars lost.
You're a fool, not everyone that pirated the game was going to buy it in the first place.
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On June 23 2011 09:21 visual77 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 09:20 thesundowners wrote:On June 23 2011 09:17 Zeke50100 wrote:On June 23 2011 09:16 thesundowners wrote:On June 23 2011 09:12 Ridiculisk wrote:
I'm confused as to why adding a LAN feature will cause a decrease in sales and an increase in Piracy???
Is it just becasue people will pirate the game to play with their friends at home? Off the ladder?
I would have thought that adding additional features to one of your best selling games, especially features that the players WANT, would increase sales, not decrease them??? Because there's really no way to make sure that somebody playing on a LAN actually bought your game. And the fact that Starcraft 2 is already ridiculously pirated should probably tell you that if you give a feature that esentially encourages piracy is probably going to inflate those numbers even more Again, how does it encourage piracy beyond the level that it already is? Allowing people to do more without actually buying the game? And you don't see how that will cause more people to pirate it? And you don't see how that could cause more people to buy it? You set up an SC2 LAN party and invite 20 friends, only 5 of which even have the game. You pirate, share it and have a blast. A few of those 15 that didn't have it want to start laddering and go buy the game. Piracy isn't a 100% black hole of money, you know.
it isn't, but are you really naive enough to believe that the pros outweigh the cons?
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On June 23 2011 09:05 Khao wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 23 2011 09:02 visual77 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 08:59 Khao wrote:On June 23 2011 08:50 Pirat6662001 wrote:On June 23 2011 08:48 Khao wrote:On June 23 2011 08:44 Pirat6662001 wrote:
Games that people pirate= games they wouldnt buy otherwise. And companies like Valve and Blizzard shouldnt worry about it cause they make awesome games that people WANT to buy. Top Pirated PC games on Bit Torrent for 2010 1) Call of Duty: Black Ops (4,270,000) 2) Battlefield: Bad Company 2 (3,960,000) 3) Mafia 2 (3,240,000) 4) Mass Effect 2 (3,240,000) 5) Starcraft II (3,120,000)Pretty much everyone on TL fall under the category of people WANTING to buy SC2. But there is also a large group of people unwilling to buy, these numbers are probably quite a bit larger given the date of the source. Source: http://www.destructoid.com/here-are-bit-torrent-s-top-pirated-games-of-2010-190459.phtml Silly, I downloaded a game through a bittorrent because it was faster than through blizzard system (i dont own a hard copy), but i still have a legit copy. Just cause you download a torrent doesnt make you a pirate. I download most games i buy (dont own hard copys) through a torrent and have a legal version still. I now that my gamer friends do the same thing cause its efficient I would argue that is still stealing, you bought a legit copy but that still does mean your stealing. Unless the distributor or producer of a game permitted you to acquire the game in such a manner you would be stealing. You really believe that? Do you also believe that it's stealing to buy an album, then rip it to my MP3 player? I can't understand this mentality - that every single thing a business desires is how things should be. The shift to digital music mostly happened because consumers got fed up with unreasonable demands, like the example I gave, and decided en masse to say "Fuck you. I'm doing it anyway.". Yes I do. You acquired an ILLEGAL copy of the digital and intellectual contents that Blizzard created, through a method of free exchange that was UNAUTHORIZED and NOT permitted by Blizzard. If that's not stealing, I really need to revise my understanding of it.
The situation he is describing would not be illegal in the United States. Maybe its different where you are from.
In the US, consumers are allowed to make backups of anything they purchase. They can make as many backups as they want, as long as it is restricted to private use and they do not distribute them (especially for profit). This is why things like CD/DVD/BR Burners are not banned even though they are widely used for making illegal copies of games. Because although there are probably a ton of illegal copies made and distributed in this manner, there are legal uses as well (backups, homemade videos, custom music, etc.).
Basically, as long as he owns a legit copy, he can have as many "illegal" copies as he wants. As long as he doesn't try to distribute them to other people or try and sell the copies for profit it's perfectly legal. The grey area is with things like BitTorrent since as you download you are uploading to other people who may or may not have legit copies. However this is enough of a grey area that BitTorrent has not yet been locked down despite being by far the most common way to pirate.
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On June 23 2011 09:22 theOnslaught wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 09:21 masterbreti wrote:
Just for reference. Right now over 5k people are downloading sc2 and pirating it. at 50 a peice. There is something like 300,000 in lost sales just for today. assuming on average sc2 get pirated the same amount for the last 6 months and for the entire 2011.
That means in 2011 alone. sc2 was pirated and lost blizz more than 3.6 million. Thats a huge amount fo money.
I think in 2010 the most pirated gameswas sc2 with like 1.2 million pirated it. Thats hundreds of millions of dollars lost. You're a fool, not everyone that pirated the game was going to buy it in the first place.
People keep up bringing this up, but I do not see how it makes it better. It is the equivalent argument to saying that not everyone that drinks and drives will murder someone. It happens often enough.
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On June 23 2011 09:22 theOnslaught wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 09:21 masterbreti wrote:
Just for reference. Right now over 5k people are downloading sc2 and pirating it. at 50 a peice. There is something like 300,000 in lost sales just for today. assuming on average sc2 get pirated the same amount for the last 6 months and for the entire 2011.
That means in 2011 alone. sc2 was pirated and lost blizz more than 3.6 million. Thats a huge amount fo money.
I think in 2010 the most pirated gameswas sc2 with like 1.2 million pirated it. Thats hundreds of millions of dollars lost. You're a fool, not everyone that pirated the game was going to buy it in the first place.
Of course. But considering if even half would have bought it. Thats still millions in lost sales. Still a lot of money.
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On June 23 2011 09:23 thesundowners wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 09:21 visual77 wrote:On June 23 2011 09:20 thesundowners wrote:On June 23 2011 09:17 Zeke50100 wrote:On June 23 2011 09:16 thesundowners wrote:On June 23 2011 09:12 Ridiculisk wrote:
I'm confused as to why adding a LAN feature will cause a decrease in sales and an increase in Piracy???
Is it just becasue people will pirate the game to play with their friends at home? Off the ladder?
I would have thought that adding additional features to one of your best selling games, especially features that the players WANT, would increase sales, not decrease them??? Because there's really no way to make sure that somebody playing on a LAN actually bought your game. And the fact that Starcraft 2 is already ridiculously pirated should probably tell you that if you give a feature that esentially encourages piracy is probably going to inflate those numbers even more Again, how does it encourage piracy beyond the level that it already is? Allowing people to do more without actually buying the game? And you don't see how that will cause more people to pirate it? And you don't see how that could cause more people to buy it? You set up an SC2 LAN party and invite 20 friends, only 5 of which even have the game. You pirate, share it and have a blast. A few of those 15 that didn't have it want to start laddering and go buy the game. Piracy isn't a 100% black hole of money, you know. it isn't, but are you really naive enough to believe that the pros outweigh the cons?
Maybe I am. I'm more just a huge fan of the infinite goods / scarce goods economy model. I think that embracing this model is in the best interest of both the content creators and content consumers and don't understand why so many, on both sides, reject it as piracy, thievery or any such nonsense.
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On June 23 2011 09:17 Zeke50100 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 09:16 thesundowners wrote:On June 23 2011 09:12 Ridiculisk wrote:
I'm confused as to why adding a LAN feature will cause a decrease in sales and an increase in Piracy???
Is it just becasue people will pirate the game to play with their friends at home? Off the ladder?
I would have thought that adding additional features to one of your best selling games, especially features that the players WANT, would increase sales, not decrease them??? Because there's really no way to make sure that somebody playing on a LAN actually bought your game. And the fact that Starcraft 2 is already ridiculously pirated should probably tell you that if you give a feature that esentially encourages piracy is probably going to inflate those numbers even more Again, how does it encourage piracy beyond the level that it already is?
Essentially encourages piracy = not discouraging piracy I think is the angle he's going for.
Apparently this game was widely pirated? Im interested to know what kind of version you can actually pirate though, as if its just using bittorrent to get the game onto a different pc then I can see that, blizz's digital distribution isnt the speediest.
Also these figures might have something to do with the fact that for a prolonged time you couldnt play the official copy of the game offline for single player, I was going to a cafe, connecting to the net to authenticate my copy online and then taking my laptop home while I was waiting for my house broadband to be connected.
If I'd thought about it, I'd have pirated a copy. And I own about 130 games on steam, so I'm hardly a hardcore pirate.
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Just because you can survive off water, and a roof, it doesn't mean you're a balanced, happy individual.
We don't care if someone is a "balanced, happy individual." Society doesn't exist to allow you to be a "balanced, happy individual." I believe the quote is "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness". Not the guarantee of it.
Entertainment should never be a luxury, its part of what makes us balanced, smarter, etc. Its like saying education, or the internet is a luxury, if you think that then you're just sheeple and retarded.
Ignoring your insults, even if we do consider entertainment to be a basic need, videogames are a form of entertainment. Even if being entertained is necessary for being a reasonable human being, having access to whatever videogame you want is not. Videogames are not the only entertainment available. There are many forms of entertainment that are entirely free.
And even if I were to allow that videogames were somehow a necessity, that doesn't make any particular videogame a necessity. There are lots of cheap, free, and free-to-play games out there. You could be playing Dwarf Fortress right now, for nothing.
You do not have to be able to play any game you want for any price you so desire. If you feel that way, then you have an overdeveloped sense of entitlement.
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Haven't Stardock made a business out of debunking this piracy bullshit? None of their games have ever had any CD-keys or DRM of any kind.
If it's a choice between free or paid, of course people will take free ... but that doesn't mean they'll pay once the free option is removed.
x downloads = y lost sales is the biggest crock of shit going around in the industry today.
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Publishers have no incentive to allow LAN in games until the amount of revenue they gain decreases from lack of LAN support. It probably never will for SC2, or HoN, or LoL. Developers are funded by publishers or are their own publishers. Piracy is not a sole cause but it is a contributing factor, and any ways piracy becomes more convenient are discouraged by publishers. It's pretty simple.
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