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On June 12 2011 14:44 AfroJimbo wrote:
What do you mean by 'uninteresting'?
I don't see how the Colossus isn't interesting. It may need to be tweaked for better balance but uninteresting isn't the word I would use. It's a giant robot that shoots dual lazers across hordes of enemies. Seems pretty cool to me.
Mothership and battlecruiser is what I would consider boring and not all that great. I don't play zerg but I find just about all of their units interesting to watch and play against.
Do you mean weak units?
I'd say its uninteresting because of the type of games it produces. The unit itself maybe interesting, but the problem is it forces cat and mouse chase or long stalemate once you get to 200/200. It also makes worse the infamous 1a deathballs into 3 second clash that many people are complaining about.
The Terran is too afraid to attack because of the AoE damage of the colossus and the fact that it doesn't have to seige to do that damage, so you can't really catch a colossus off guard except with vikings. Unfortunately for the vikings you have blink stalkers and phoenixs so its hard to engage.
At the same time the Protoss is too afraid to engage because of viking snipes, ghosts and stim-marauder dps. So you end up with a huge stalemate till someone decides to attack and the battle is ended and won in 3 seconds.
I'm sure someone will whine to me about all the things players can do to prevent this, but I'm merely stating my view off what I've seen in progames.
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I seriously believe the only problem with SC2's design is.....
Dustin Browder himself.
I mean really, he gives the GODDAMN WORST interviews ever. He has this "I'm too good for you people" attitude when talking about SC2, and is doesn't really come off as a smart guy. I know they hired him based on his experience on RTS design, but he really doesn't have much of a career on that field either, I mean, C&C RA2 and generals weren't really THAT good,they were barely decent.
I truly feel that Dustin is hurtful to SC2's design and to blizzard as a whole, and shows a huge difference from what Blizzard design used to mean. I'm not sure I can explain it too well. He just... doesn't feel right at all.
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On June 12 2011 14:51 Halcyondaze wrote:
Blizzard interacts with its customers more than any gaming company bar none. It is not even close.
actually if we're going by tournament player feedback, capcom outclasses blizzard easily.
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I don't get how the Colossus is the most uninteresting unit.
It is a 9range AOE unit that can be attacked by air and move up and down cliffs
How is that not interesting?
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I hope they take out the immortal and replace it with something useful. Also fix the carrier
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On June 12 2011 14:48 DannyJ wrote:
Uninteresting in that they have overreaching utility but very little micro or thought behind em. Collosus i just poop out of my robo and park behind my units. They look cool, but the fact that i can just sit there and oogle at it's pretty lasers and not really need to do much else make it pretty boring.
Not to mention those pretty lazers mostly just clutter up the screen and reduce visual clarity. Ultra-flashy visual effects should be reserved for campaign only units.
On June 12 2011 14:53 Dommk wrote:
I don't get how the Colossus is the most uninteresting unit.
It is a 9range AOE unit that can be attacked by air and move up and down cliffs
How is that not interesting?
You're right that it's not the most uninteresting unit - that would be the marauder or immortal - but that it can be attacked by air and walk up cliffs just makes it a quasi-flying unit, really. The most interesting thing about it is that it deals damage by converging on a point with two lines, but unfortunately it attacks so fast that micro (or counter-micro) isn't much of a factor.
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On June 12 2011 14:52 GhostFall wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2011 14:51 Halcyondaze wrote:
Blizzard interacts with its customers more than any gaming company bar none. It is not even close. actually if we're going by tournament player feedback, capcom outclasses blizzard easily.
I'd also say NetherRealm Studios is doing a pretty good job in this with Mortal Kombat 9.
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On June 12 2011 14:49 Razyel wrote:
Dustin Browder:
Let's look at yet another situation, marauders against stalkers. If both sides a-move, clearly the marauder will win. However, if the stalker has blink, and uses blink well, the situation might turn out different as well.
Steamed marauders get owned by blink stalkers ?.....really ?
Yeah, this was very confusing. I literally had no basis for understanding it.
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On June 12 2011 14:44 jdseemoreglass wrote:
Meanwhile every major tournament has eliminated close positions because of the obvious imbalances it creates. But blizzard is still behind the curve on this as well.
To defend them a little bit, I can somewhat understand why lower-mid level players prefer closer spawn positions in the map pool; it's a bit simpler and games don't take as long. Of course that's no excuse for it, since I still don't see what's wrong with using different map pools for different league (i.e. diamond+ don't have close spawns).
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On June 12 2011 14:24 rawb wrote:
David kim is pretty damned good...
No he's not. Any Code A scrub would wipe the floor with him.
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On June 12 2011 14:52 GhostFall wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2011 14:51 Halcyondaze wrote:
Blizzard interacts with its customers more than any gaming company bar none. It is not even close. actually if we're going by tournament player feedback, capcom outclasses blizzard easily.
I think you are grossly misinformed about the amount of player feedback the developers get ;o, David Kim quite literally PM'd Minigun whilst he was in a game and asked him what he thought about a change... AFAIK, the vast majority of Pro players get polled on the state of balance, at least that is the way PainUser was making it out to be when he was on SOTG
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blizzard balancing sc2 is not based entirely on stats FYI. they listen to pros/community/ladder/games... almost everything I can ever think of anyways...
here's why Pro gamers suck at balancing the game: They wan't their race to be more powerful so they can get more money. Why do you think they're playing SC2? Cuz its a good game? For money. Pros will be pros. Why would they want other races to be more powerful, get what I mean? Theres a lot of facades in pros IMO. The community can be lackluster in experience. Blizzard shoudl rely on specific games / overall games more than other sources IMO.
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On June 12 2011 14:51 Halcyondaze wrote:
Blizzard interacts with its customers more than any gaming company bar none. It is not even close.
Well
1. That's not true
2. Communication does not have a lot to do with how many interviews you do and how much interaction you have. When someone has good communication skills, it doesn't mean they talk to a lot of people. It means they have the ability to understand, comprehend and respond in a way that is relevant.
Unfortunately the latter is not really happening. Although Blizzard is listening, there seems to be many inherent problems in the way they listen and respond. For example the Phoenix change when it came to moving shot, and the way Dustin Browder responds to a lot of questions, and slag pits.
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fix a move deathball syndrom plz. Colossus roaches marauders that means you
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Col are awesome. I think the most uninteresting unit is the roach by far. Dustin Browder gets tons of flack but sc2 turned out to be an awesome game with tons of people playing it so I have to give credit where credit is due. There's obviously tons of things I hate about sc2 but it's by far better than any other game and it's tough to live up to the legend that is bw. Even with bw the game wasn't even closed to balanced for a really long time and I'm not sure why it took so long to nerf zerg so that people couldn't ling rush every game.
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The main problem is that even Blizzard's most skilled employee is several levels of skill lower than a top tier professional. It will probably be 1-2 years for Blizzard to figure out why skill isn't being rewarded nearly enough
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Any Code B scrub would wipe the floor with him. Look, what I see here is Blizzard may listen to the community and pros and be all the good we want them to be but Dustin Browder is the figurehead and he can't go a single interview without looking bad and saying things that don't add up. I'll base my opinions of starcraft 2 ON starcraft 2 and let my concerns and complaints be known instead of targeting one person.
Dustin Browder is comes across as the king of the kiddy pool standing in the ocean shouting his superiority. Just don't listen to him and hope they don't put any more stupid references to him into the game.
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Explaining my choices on the poll.
-Colossus is the most uninteresting replacement for the reaver they could have done. Jinro said it better than I can.
-Immortal pretty much kills mech in TvP which I hate, it's a boring unit that's only purpose in the game is making sure you don't invest too much on building whatever it counters. Not interesting.
-Overseer is a glorified scout. Zerg was fine with overlords detecting, why did this need to be complicated? Waste of a unit slot.
We're at the point where Blizzard needs to stop thinking about "cool unit ideas" and look at the bigger picture. What would be cool for the matchups?
edit: if there was a 4th pick I'd go with corruptor. They could have definitly made that more interesting.
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On June 12 2011 14:58 sluggaslamoo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2011 14:51 Halcyondaze wrote:
Blizzard interacts with its customers more than any gaming company bar none. It is not even close. Well 1. That's not true 2. Communication does not have a lot to do with how many interviews you do and how much interaction you have. When someone has good communication skills, it doesn't mean they talk to a lot of people. It means they have the ability to understand, comprehend and respond in a way that is relevant. Unfortunately the latter is not really happening. Although Blizzard is listening, there seems to be many inherent problems in the way they listen and respond. For example the Phoenix change when it came to moving shot, and slag pits.
They introduced Slag pits because in actual fact, people who played ladder liked those kinds of maps. Tal'Darin is currently the 8th least down voted map (Bottom 3). They wanted a mix of maps
I don't know what moving shot has to do with anything, you can easily look at some change and act as if there was a big player uproar, in the same vain, the Roach range buff to 4 range received a huge uproar--pro players were saying it was a bad change, some good Zergs saying it should have been 3.5 Range instead of 4range...6months later the unit isn't that amazing.
And how much insight do you actually have in development? Unless you've seen first hand how they communicate with players, I don't think you should be making outlandish statements
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2629 Posts
Blizzard employees and community managers are extremely aware at both the state of the game and its players. They read almost every popular community website on a day-to-day basis, and while fans may find their resolution lacking, it is without a doubt that they try their best to find a compromise between their vision of the game and our own.
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EPT
