Top 20 current tournament maps data

Diamond

United States10796 Posts

June 08 2011 23:43 GMT

So as everyone knows I am quite the fan of maps and pretty much everything about them. So today I started putting together stats from TLPD on all the current tournament maps. I always like to make sure I know as much as possible about the current map pool when I organize tournaments, so at a minimum this should be useful to other tournament organizer's and pro players.

I thought this would be cool info to have in one organized place for everyone!

So here's the info, if people like this, I can update it once a month, if not then no problem

! Note that some maps like Scrap Station and iCCup Neo Enigma are pretty close to being considered an inactive map, but some leagues still use them so I included them. Also all averages are only counting the maps used, others are ignored.

Also Bel'Shir Beach is NOT listed as it only has 13 total games thus far that are not mirrors which is not even remotely close to enough to get any legit data.

Overall Stats

Total Games Played (minus mirrors)
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Average - 438.3
Average without XNC, Metal, and Scrap: 211.06

1: Xel'Naga Caverns - 2126
2: Metalopolis - 1925
3: Scrap Station - 1127
4: Metalopolis 1.1 - 448
5: Xel'Naga Caverns - 403
6: Shakuras Plateau 2.0 - 392
7: Tal'Darim Altar LE - 360
8: Shattered Temple - 309
9: GSL Terminus RE
10: iCCup Testbug - 247
11: Tal'Darim Altar - 242
12: GSL Crevasse - 212
13: GSL Crossfire SE - 197
14: GSL Terminus SE - 165
15: Typhon Peaks - 95
16: iCCup Pawn Re - 65
17: GSL Dual Sight - 51
18: iCCup Neo Enigma - 48
19: Backwater Gulch - 41
20: Xel'Naga Fortress - 39

Zerg vs. Terran Win %
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Average - 49.38%

1: Backwater Gulch - 66.70%
2: Xel'Naga Fortress - 62.50%
3: Tal'Darim Altar LE - 56.40%
4: Tal'Darim Altar - 56.40%
5: GSL Dual Sight - 54.50%
6: GSL Crossfire SE - 52.90%
7: Typhon Peaks - 52.80%
8: GSL Crevasse - 52.70%
9: Shakuras Plateau 2.0 - 51.70%
10: Metalopolis 1.1 - 51.50%
11: Scrap Station - 50.10%
12: GSL Terminus RE - 49.00%
13: iCCup Neo Enigma - 46.40%
14: iCCup Pawn RE - 44.40%
15: GSL Terminus SE - 43.90%
16: iCCup Testbug - 43.30%
17: Metalopolis - 42.00%
18: Xel'Naga Caverns - 41.30%
19: Xel'Naga Caverns 1.1 - 40.70%
20: Shattered Temple - 28.40%

Zerg vs. Protoss Win %
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Average - 51.70%

1: GSL Terminus SE - 68.30%
2: iCCup Neo Enigma - 66.70%
3: GSL Crossfire SE - 60.00%
4: iCCup Pawn RE - 56.30%
5: iCCup Testbug - 56.30%
6: Shattered Temple - 56.00%
7: Xel'Naga Fortress - 55.60%
8: GSL Crevasse - 54.90%
9: Metalopolis 1.1 - 53.70%
10: Xel'Naga Caverns 1.1 - 52.30%
11: Scrap Station - 50.10%
12: GSL Terminus RE - 50%
13: Xel'Naga Caverns - 49.20%
14: Typhon Peaks - 47.80%
15: Tal'Darim Altar - 47.10%
16: Tal'Darim Altar LE - 45.70%
17: Backwater Gulch - 45.50%
18: Metalopolis - 45.20%
19: GSL Dual Sight - 37.50%
20: Shakuras Plateau 2.0 - 35.70%

Zerg Average Overall Win %
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Average - 50.54%

1: Xel'Naga Fortress - 59.05%
2: iCCup Neo Enigma - 56.55%
3: GSL Crossfire SE - 56.45%
4: GSL Terminus SE - 56.10%
5: Backwater Gulch - 56.10%
6: GSL Crevasse - 53.80%
7: Metalopolis 1.1 - 52.60%
8: Tal'Darim Altar - 51.75%
9: Tal'Darim Altar LE - 51.05%
10: iCCup Pawn RE - 50.35%
11: Typhon Peaks - 50.30%
12: Scrap Station - 50.10%
13: iCCup Testbug - 49.80%
14: GSL Terminus RE - 49.50%
15: Xel'Naga Caverns 1.1 - 46.50%
16: GSL Dual Sight - 46.00%
17: Xel'Naga Caverns - 45.25%
18: Shakuras Plateau 2.0 - 43.70%
19: Metalopolis - 43.60%
20: Shattered Temple - 42.20%

Protoss vs. Zerg Win %
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Average - 48.31%

1: Shakuras Plateau 2.0 - 64.30%
2: GSL Dual Sight - 62.50%
3: Metalopolis - 54.80%
4: Backwater Gulch - 54.50%
5: Tal'Darim Altar LE - 54.30%
6: Tal'Darim Altar - 52.90%
7: Typhon Peaks - 52.20%
8: Xel'Naga Caverns - 50.80%
9: GSL Terminus RE - 50.00%
10: Scrap Station - 49.90%
11: Xel'Naga Caverns 1.1 - 47.70%
12: Metalopolis 1.1 - 46.30%
13: GSL Crevasse - 45.10%
14: Xel'Naga Fortress - 44.40%
15: Shattered Temple - 44.00%
16: iCCup Pawn RE - 43.70%
17: iCCup Testbug - 43.70%
18: GSL Crossfire SE - 40.00%
19: iCCup Neo Enigma - 33.30%
20: GSL Terminus SE - 31.70%

Protoss vs. Terran Win %
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Average - 48.46%

1: Typhon Peaks - 66.70%
2: Tal'Darim Altar - 60.40%
3: iCCup Neo Enigma - 57.10%
4: iCCup Testbug - 55.60%
5: GSL Crevasse - 54.30%
6: GSL Terminus RE - 54.10%
7: Xel'Naga Caverns - 53.10%
8: Xel'Naga Caverns 1.1 - 49.70%
9: GSL Crossfire SE - 48.60%
10: Metalopolis - 48.50%
11: GSL Dual Sight - 47.60%
12: Tal'Darim Altar LE - 47.10%
13: Backwater Gulch - 46.70%
14: Scrap Station - 45.70%
15: Metalopolis 1.1 - 45.50%
16: Shattered Temple - 43.10%
17: Shakuras Plateau 2.0 - 42.10%
18: iCCup Pawn RE - 38.50%
19: GSL Terminus SE - 36.20%
20: Xel'Naga Fortress - 28.60%

Protoss Average Overall Win %
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Average - 48.38%

1: Typhon Peaks - 59.45%
2: Tal'Darim Altar - 56.65%
3: GSL Dual Sight - 55.05%
4: Shakuras Plateau 2.0 - 53.20%
5: GSL Terminus RE - 52.05%
6: Xel'Naga Caverns - 51.95%
7: Metalopolis - 51.65%
8: Tal'Darim Altar LE - 50.70%
9: Backwater Gulch - 50.60%
10: GSL Crevasse - 49.70%
11: iCCup Testbug - 49.65%
12: Xel'Naga Caverns - 48.70%
13: Scrap Station - 47.80%
14: Metalopolis 1.1 - 45.90%
15: iCCup Neo Enigma - 45.20%
16: GSL Crossfire SE - 44.30%
17: Shattered Temple - 43.55%
18: iCCup Pawn RE - 41.10%
19: Xel'Naga Fortress - 36.50%
20: GSL Terminus SE - 33.95%

Terran v Zerg Win %
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Average - 50.62%

1: Shattered Temple - 71.60%
2: Xel'Naga Caverns 1.1 - 59.30%
3: Xel'Naga Caverns - 58.70%
4: Metalopolis - 58.00%
5: iCCup Testbug - 56.70%
6: GSL Terminus SE - 56.10%
7: iCCup Pawn RE - 55.60%
8: iCCup Neo Enigma - 53.60%
9: GSL Terminus RE - 51.00%
10: Scrap Station - 49.90%
11: Metalopolis 1.1 - 48.50%
12: Shakuras Plateau - 48.30%
13: GSL Crevasse - 47.30%
14: Typhon Peaks - 47.20%
15: GSL Crossfire SE - 47.10%
16: GSL Dual Sight - 45.50%
17: Tal'Darim Altar LE - 43.60%
18: Tal'Darim Altar - 43.60%
19: Xel'Naga Fortress - 37.50%
20: Backwater Gulch - 33.30%

Terran v Protoss Win %
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Average - 51.54%

1: Xel'Naga Fortress - 71.40%
2: GSL Terminus SE - 63.80%
3: iCCup Pawn RE - 61.50%
4: Shakuras Plateau 2.0 - 57.90%
5: Shattered Temple - 56.90%
6: Metalopolis 1.1 - 54.50%
7: Scrap Station - 54.30%
8: Backwater Gulch - 53.30%
9: Tal'Darim Altar LE - 52.90%
10: GSL Dual Sight - 52.40%
11: Metalopolis - 51.50%
12: GSl Crossfire SE - 51.40%
13: Xel'Naga Caverns 1.1 - 50.30%
14: Xel'Naga Caverns - 46.90%
15: GSL Terminus RE - 45.90%
16: GSL Crevasse - 45.70%
17: iCCup Testbug - 44.40%
18: iCCup Neo Enigma - 42.90%
19: Tal'Darim Altar - 39..60%
20: Typhon Peaks - 33.30%

Terran Average Overall Win %'s
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Average - 51.08%

1: Shattered Temple - 64.25%
2: GSL Terminus SE - 59.95%
3: iCCup Pawn RE - 58.55%
4: Xel'Naga Caverns 1.1 - 54.80%
5: Metalopolis - 54.75%
6: Xel'Naga Fortress - 54.45%
7: Shakuras Plateau 2.0 - 53.10%
8: Xel'Naga Caverns - 52.80%
9: Scrap Station - 52.10%
10: Metalopolis 1.1 - 51.50%
11: iCCup Testbug - 50.55%
12: GSL Crossfire SE - 49.25%
13: GSL Dual Sight - 48.95%
14: GSL Terminus RE - 48.45%
15: Tal'Darim Altar LE - 48.25%
16: iCCup Neo Enigma - 48.25%
17: GSL Crevasse - 46.50%
18: Backwater Gulch - 43.30%
19: Tal'Darim Altar - 41.60%
20: Typhon Peaks - 40.25%

Total % Points from overall 50% race win %'s
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Let me preface this section with the statement that I am NOT a math major. I don't know if this formula I am using is actually a good method. If it is not, show me one that is, and I will be happy to use it. It's all I could think of however. It is explained after the list:

Format:
(Map Name) - (% Points Away from overall 50% winrates) - (Zerg Overall Win %/Protoss Overall Win %/Terran Overall Win %)

Average : 13.585 - (50.54% / 48.38% / 51.08%)

1: iCCup Testbug - 1.10% - (49.80% / 49.65% / 50.55%)
2: Tal'Darim Altar LE - 3.50% - (51.05% / 50.70% / 48.25%)
3: GSL Terminus RE - 4.10% - (49.50% / 52.05% / 48.45%)
4: Scrap Station - 4.30% - (50.10% / 47.80% / 52.10%)
5: GSL Crevasse - 8.60% - (53.80% / 49.70% / 46.50%)
6: Xel'Naga Caverns - 9.50% - (45.25% / 51.95% / 52.80%)
7: Xel'Naga Caverns 1.1 - 9.60% - (46.50% / 48.70% / 54.80%)
8: iCCup Pawn Re - 9.60% - (50.35% / 41.10% / 58.55%)
9: GSL Dual Sight - 10.10% - (46.00% / 55.05% / 48.95%)
10: Shakuras Plateau 2.0 - 12.60% - (43.70% - 53.20% - 53.10%)
11: Metalopolis - 12.80% - (43.60% / 51.65% / 54.75%)
12: GSL Crossfire SE - 12.90% - (56.45% / 44.30% / 49.25%)
13: iCCup Neo Enigma - 13.10% - (56.55% / 45.20% / 48.25%)
14: Backwater Gulch - 13.40% - (56.10% - 50.60% - 43.30%)
15: Metalopolis 1.1 - 15.20% - (52.60% - 45.90% - 51.50%)
16: Tal'Darim Altar - 16.80% - (51.75% - 56.65% - 41.60%)
17: Typhon Peaks - 19.50% - (50.30% - 59.45% - 40.25%)
18: Xel'Naga Fortress - 27.00% - (59.05% - 36.50% - 54.45%)
19: Shattered Temple - 28.50% - (42.20% - 43.55% - 64.25%)
20: GSL Terminus SE - 32.10% - (56.10% - 33.95% - 59.95%)

The formula I used basically added up all the % points off of 50% from each races Average Overall Win %.

Example 1: iCCup Testbug

Zerg Overall Win %: 49.80%
Protoss Overall Win %: 49.65%
Terran Overall Win %: 50.55%

50% - 49.80% = .20%
50% - 49.65% = .35%
50.55% - 50% = .55%

.20 + .35 +.55 = 1.1%

Example 2: GSL Terminus SE

Zerg Overall Win %: 56.10%
Protoss Overall Win %: 33.95%
Terran Overall Win %: 59.95%

56.10% - 50.00% = 6.10%
50.00% - 33.95% = 16.05%
59.95% - 50.00% = 9.95%

6.10% + 16.05% + 9.95% = 32.10%

Again if this method is wrong or there is a better (or even additional method) to test map's overall balance let me know how and I will do it

% Variance
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1: Scrap Station - 3.00%
2: GSL Terminus RE - 3.40%
3: Metalopolis 1.1 - 6.47%
4: GSL Crevasse - 7.93%
5: Xel'Naga Caverns 1.1 - 7.93%
6: Xel'Naga Caverns - 8.40%
7: Tal'Darim Altar LE - 9.07%
8: Metalopolis - 9.53%
9: GSL Crossfire SE - 9.53%
10: iCCup Testbug - 12.40%
11: GSL Dual Sight - 12.93%
12: Tal'Darim Altar - 13.13%
13: Typhon Peaks - 14.47%
14: iCCup Pawn Re - 15.60%
15: Shakuras Plateau 2.0 - 15.93%
16: Backwater Gulch - 16.33%
17: iCCup Neo Enigma - 18.27%
18: Shattered Temple - 23.00%
19: GSL Terminus SE - 25.47%
20: Xel'Naga Fortress - 26.33%

[image loading]

So that's that. Any thing you think I should add, remove, or even if I just made direct input errors let me know and I will fix it.

Here is the spreadsheet I put all the data into

Thanks for checking it out and it and I would love to hear your thoughts

Raelcun

United States3747 Posts

June 08 2011 23:46 GMT

What time frame is this from? One of the major issues I have with the win rates graph is it spans over too long a time.

Diamond

United States10796 Posts

June 08 2011 23:47 GMT

On June 09 2011 08:46 iCCup.Raelcun wrote:
What time frame is this from? One of the major issues I have with the win rates graph is it spans over too long a time.

Since retail. But most of the maps in the list are newer versions (Such as Metal and XNC 1.1), or are custom maps that are more recent.

monitor

United States2408 Posts

June 08 2011 23:48 GMT

Looks cool! Its nice to read it easier than going back and forth on sc2 international DB. You might consider adding page breaks to make it seem less daunting- the big letters seem really big and a bit hard to find haha.

Dommk

Australia4865 Posts

June 08 2011 23:49 GMT

Protoss:

...
20: GSL Terminus SE - 33.95%

0_o totally did not expect that. But I guess it coincides with what Alicia was saying about ZvP on some maps

Plexa

Aotearoa39261 Posts

June 08 2011 23:51 GMT

On June 09 2011 08:46 iCCup.Raelcun wrote:
What time frame is this from? One of the major issues I have with the win rates graph is it spans over too long a time.

Because this spans since retail it pretty much invalidates all the effort put into this

AndAgain

United States2621 Posts

June 08 2011 23:55 GMT

These stats always show a discrepancy between perception and reality. For example- Crossfire is supposed to be zerg's nightmare, yet they're doing quite well on it.

Diamond

United States10796 Posts

June 08 2011 23:55 GMT

On June 09 2011 08:51 Plexa wrote:

Show nested quote +

Because this spans since retail it pretty much invalidates all the effort put into this

Only Metal v1, XNC v1, and Scrap have been in since Retail.

Testbug, Tal'Darim LE, Terminus RE, GSL Crevasse, XNC 1.1, Pawn RE, Dual Sight, Crossfire SE, Neo Enigma, Backwater Gulch, Metal 1.1, Tal'Darim Altar, Typhon, Shak 2.0, XNF, Shattered Temple, and Terminus SE are recently released maps.

So if you don't want retail data, just ignore Metal v1, XNC v1, and Scrap.

Dommk

Australia4865 Posts

June 08 2011 23:58 GMT

Yeah...I don't think the overall win rate is a good idea for this... I.e Test Bug looks balanced for Protoss but in reality it is 43.7% one way and 54.6% the other.

I think a better idea would be to list the maps by total variance from 50% -- from lowest to highest

This would mean for Test bug it would be 10.9% total variance (for Protoss - 6.3% vZ + 4.6% vT) and Xel'naga would be 3.9% (for Protoss - 0.8% vsZ + 3.1% vsT)

By your method, form face value it looks like Testbug is more balance than Xel'Naga when it really isn't.

windsupernova

Mexico5280 Posts

June 08 2011 23:59 GMT

#10

+ Show Spoiler +

ZvT
1: Backwater Gulch - 66.70%
2: Xel'Naga Fortress - 62.50%
3: Tal'Darim Altar LE - 56.40%
4: Tal'Darim Altar - 56.40%
5: GSL Dual Sight - 54.50%
6: GSL Crossfire SE - 52.90%
7: Typhon Peaks - 52.80%
8: GSL Crevasse - 52.70%
9: Shakuras Plateau 2.0 - 51.70%
10: Metalopolis 1.1 - 51.50%
11: Scrap Station - 50.10%
12: GSL Terminus RE - 49.00%
13: iCCup Neo Enigma - 46.40%
14: iCCup Pawn RE - 44.40%
15: GSL Terminus RE - 43.90%
16: iCCup Testbug - 43.30%
17: Metalopolis - 42.00%
18: Xel'Naga Caverns - 41.30%
19: Xel'Naga Caverns 1.1 - 40.70%
20: Shattered Temple - 28.40%

Are this 2 different verions or is it a typo?

KimJongChill

United States6429 Posts

June 09 2011 00:00 GMT

#11

Wow, I had no idea shattered temple was so bad for zerg, but then again I'm also surprised by the Crossfire results, since I always hear about how bad it is for zerg. I guess it's good because the expansion are harder to defend for T and P, given the stretchedness of the map?

DirtYLOu

575 Posts

June 09 2011 00:01 GMT

#12

On June 09 2011 08:59 windsupernova wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

Are this 2 different verions or is it a typo?

He probably meant RE and SE, SE is the newest version.

Diamond

United States10796 Posts

June 09 2011 00:02 GMT

#13

On June 09 2011 08:59 windsupernova wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

Are this 2 different verions or is it a typo?

Yes there is SE and RE but I am an idiot and typed RE twice. Will fix now, thank you very much! Let me know any other you might see.

Ai52487963

United Kingdom136 Posts

June 09 2011 00:03 GMT

#14

On June 09 2011 08:51 Plexa wrote:

Show nested quote +

Because this spans since retail it pretty much invalidates all the effort put into this

I agree. Having data on a patch-by-patch basis would be more accurate as to current game balance.

Fugue

Australia253 Posts

June 09 2011 00:06 GMT

#15

Would it be useful to fold this into a similar format as the race balance graphs, to show win rates per matchup over time for a map?

As people say, it's difficult to trust the data when it's averaging everything since the map first existed.
Although doing a set of graphs for each map would be a huge post and a lot of work.

Still, it's interesting data. Thank you very much.

Wargizmo

Australia1237 Posts

June 09 2011 00:08 GMT

#16

Any chance of making this data only since the latest patch?

Gladiator6

Sweden7024 Posts

June 09 2011 00:12 GMT

#17

I had no idea testbug was that "balanced", I've always felt and in MLG also that it's pretty zerg favored.

edc

United States666 Posts

June 09 2011 00:12 GMT

#18

This is really cool. You should constantly update this.

Dagobert

Netherlands1858 Posts

June 09 2011 00:14 GMT

#19

On June 09 2011 09:12 eYeball wrote:
I had no idea testbug was that "balanced", I've always felt and in MLG also that it's pretty zerg favored.

That's why facts > opinions.

Diamond

United States10796 Posts

June 09 2011 00:14 GMT

#20

On June 09 2011 09:08 Wargizmo wrote:

Any chance of making this data only since the latest patch?

That would be insanely hard to go back and do now due to delayed broadcasting. I would have to go back and watch every NASL, IPL, and delayed broadcast ever to see which patch they played on.

Edit: I'm going to add in the race variance to the OP. Gimme some time.

Ertu

Greece686 Posts

June 09 2011 00:18 GMT

#21

Wow,this looks incredibly weird...especially on TvZ,I would swear that my Backwater Gulch is my best map for TvZ on the current rotation,with all the cliffs and the siege locations, and Forgotten Temple the worst,being so open wide.

These stats prove me dead wrong :O

Zamiel

United States211 Posts

June 09 2011 00:27 GMT

#22

This is a nice idea Diamond, but the skeptic in me would really like to see a column in the spreadsheet for sigma significance for each map.

Can Diamond/someone edit that in to the google docs spreadsheet?

Unfortunately, even with the addition of this transparency, the numbers will lack any kind of bearing to current balance (as Plexa mentioned).

vectorix108

United States4633 Posts

June 09 2011 00:34 GMT

#23

Whoa! this is really cool. I think I'll use this to choose maps to play in tournaments from now on

DamnCats

United States1472 Posts

June 09 2011 00:37 GMT

#24

On June 09 2011 09:18 Ertu wrote:
Wow,this looks incredibly weird...especially on TvZ,I would swear that my Backwater Gulch is my best map for TvZ on the current rotation,with all the cliffs and the siege locations, and Forgotten Temple the worst,being so open wide.

These stats prove me dead wrong :O

I thought the exact same thing lol. Gulch totally blows ZvT and I love shattered temple zvt.. weird.

xuanzue

Colombia1747 Posts

June 09 2011 00:40 GMT

#25

Scrap Station - 4.30% - (50.10% / 47.80% / 52.10%)

a lot of complains about this map, but seems really balanced.

Kelsier

United States31 Posts

June 09 2011 00:53 GMT

#26

17: Shakuras Plateau 2.0 - 20.00% - (43.70% - 53.20% - 53.10%)

6.3 + 3.2 + 3.1 = 12.6%, I think just a typo. Really nice data though. Interesting to see where facts and perception differ.

SCFlavor

United States82 Posts

June 09 2011 01:05 GMT

#27

Didn't know xelnaga is such a bad map for zerg only 45% overall. A map that is the most used and usually the starting map of clan wars.

Dommk

Australia4865 Posts

June 09 2011 01:10 GMT

#28

Sorry, I wasn't very clear Diamond. I meant the average of the variance, not the variance of the average.

Here is what it looks like when you take the variance first.

[image loading]

So yeah, that shows it a little bit more clearly. Scrap Station is a map that is somewhat balance, there isn't a big variation in win rates but Shattered Temple on the other hand has a very big variance in win rates between match ups.

Testbug seems balance if you take the average but if you check out the variation in win rates it is not that great, Xel'Naga by your averages is worse than Testbug but has considerably less variation in win rates

You could always get more specific but this gets shows the gist of it pretty well

Diamond

United States10796 Posts

June 09 2011 01:26 GMT

#29

On June 09 2011 10:10 Dommk wrote:
Sorry, I wasn't very clear Diamond. I meant the average of the variance, not the variance of the average.

Here is what it looks like when you take the variance first.

+ Show Spoiler +

Put that in OP

iNcontroL

USA29055 Posts

June 09 2011 01:28 GMT

#30

awesome information

very odd that shattered is SO bad for z's...

Diamond

United States10796 Posts

June 09 2011 01:29 GMT

#31

On June 09 2011 10:28 iNcontroL wrote:
awesome information

very odd that shattered is SO bad for z's...

Thanks <3

. Yea that surprised me too, really was the biggest shock when I was inputting the data.

PhiliBiRD

United States2643 Posts

June 09 2011 01:31 GMT

#32

according to your stats.

shattered temple is the worst ZvT map? that makes me doubt your statistics quite a bit

how in the world could zerg have an average of 28% win vs T on that map that is considered by most to be a Zerg map.

khanofmongols

542 Posts

June 09 2011 01:42 GMT

#33

how is zerg best against terran on Backwater? Small sample? I thought tanks were reallllllly good on that map, same with crossfire.

Dommk

Australia4865 Posts

June 09 2011 01:45 GMT

#34

On June 09 2011 10:31 PhiliBiRD wrote:
according to your stats.

shattered temple is the worst ZvT map? that makes me doubt your statistics quite a bit

how in the world could zerg have an average of 28% win vs T on that map that is considered by most to be a Zerg map.

Probably the same reason why Zerg has a great win percentage vs Terran and Protoss on Crossfire, the reason being there is more to this game than the fairly shallow analysis people tend to make.

Probe1

United States17920 Posts

June 09 2011 01:50 GMT

#35

We will all look at the stats and see what we want to see. For example I see shattered temple and think: Close positions skew the data in ZvT

Dommk

Australia4865 Posts

June 09 2011 01:56 GMT

#36

On June 09 2011 10:50 Probe1 wrote:
We will all look at the stats and see what we want to see. For example I see shattered temple and think: Close positions skew the data in ZvT

These are tournament games, I can only imagine the maps they are using have close positions removed, save Metalopolais because that should have games before people started the trend of removing close positions from maps

ehalf

408 Posts

June 09 2011 02:03 GMT

#37

Very very nice post. Numbers just are far more better than opinions.

cArn-

Korea (South)824 Posts

June 09 2011 02:07 GMT

#38

On June 09 2011 10:28 iNcontroL wrote:
awesome information

very odd that shattered is SO bad for z's...

my thought exactly ... how the fuck zerg have so bad win ratio on this, it's supposed to be ridiculously good for zergs, stats for crossfire ZvT are weird too

eloist

United States1017 Posts

June 09 2011 02:17 GMT

#39

On June 09 2011 10:42 khanofmongols wrote:
how is zerg best against terran on Backwater? Small sample? I thought tanks were reallllllly good on that map, same with crossfire.

Because any map that tanks are good on, mutas are even better on.

AndAgain

United States2621 Posts

June 09 2011 02:21 GMT

#40

On June 09 2011 11:17 eloist wrote:

Show nested quote +

Because any map that tanks are good on, mutas are even better on.

Tanks are generally good on small, tight maps. It's the opposite for mutas.

eloist

United States1017 Posts

June 09 2011 02:23 GMT

#41

On June 09 2011 11:21 AndAgain wrote:

Show nested quote +

Tanks are generally good on small, tight maps. It's the opposite for mutas.

That is too shallow of an analysis. What makes mutas incredibly good on maps like crossfire is that they can hover over ledges and rifts where marines can't catch them. These maps also tend to have a much shorter air distance between main/natural/third than ground distance so mutas can just go back and forth.

Why do you think an open map is good for mutas when their movement is not constraint by terrain but that of units that counter them is?

For tanks, you need to have enough space for marines to run around between them. They are pretty safe from banelings/lings regardless of the Terrain if you space them out well.

Diamond

United States10796 Posts

June 09 2011 02:58 GMT

#42

The stats are straight from TLPD. So unless TLPD is off they are legit

dimfish

United States663 Posts

June 09 2011 03:48 GMT

#43

Diamond, this is excellent! Please keep updating like you said. All of us mapazoids at least will be carefully looking at the outliers when we design maps.

Do you think it will be viable to keep this data separated by patch from now going forward? I've never tried to pull numbers from TLPD so I don't know what's there.

Randomaccount#77123

United States5003 Posts

June 13 2011 21:09 GMT

#44

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