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What WoL units/mechanics are uninteresting? - Page 39

Forum Index > SC2 General
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tyles
Profile Joined August 2010
United Kingdom509 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-04 08:08:45
June 04 2011 08:08 GMT
#761
1.Collosi
2.Collosi
3.Collosi
Tyles.772 Bobstar.223 I'm just disappointed they overhyped an announcement which would obviously cause a lot of backlash in the TL community. Sure they acquired huk, but they didn't have to rub it in our faces.
Joementum
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
787 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-04 08:32:21
June 04 2011 08:20 GMT
#762
On June 04 2011 15:08 ixi.genocide wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 02 2011 02:30 Falling wrote:
On June 02 2011 02:21 Eknoid4 wrote:
HT storm is incredibly hard to use vs good micro.


But it doesn't do much and it is actually quite easy to fill the screen with storms compared to BW. Hold t and start clicking. Obviously people don't want to get rid of smart-casting so storm's power has been nerfed. Compare it to the BW storm- storming mech actually put significant damage- 2 storms would take out tanks. Storming mineral lines took 1-2 storms rather than 3-4.

That's where I'd rather have power over spam minimal damage storm.

I actually wonder how armour effects BW and SC2's damage output. BW was 8 volleys of 14 damage. (112 damage). SC2 is 10 damage over ever half second. (80 damage) But BW maybe also has a bigger damage output thus overcoming armour a bit better?


2 storms do take out a tank in sc2, storming a mineral line only takes 1-2 storms if the opponent doesn't react, I would rather have the option to react and have more storms than the option to be totally screwed once the ht comes within about 10 range of the workers. One thing that I can't really look up is whether storm ignores armor, I thought that it did.

Also.... Someone else in this thread was complaining about siege tanks being less effective versus the new ai system. I would just like to point out that you are actually stupid. Like, literally mentally deficient. Units clump up more in sc2 so splash damage is more effective. WAYYYY more effective.


Tanks also don't overkill anymore either. Anyone that says tanks in SC2 are worse is a complete idiot. They're splash isn't as great, but unit clumping makes up for it as well as the smart targeting AI they have.

My 3 Units that I don't like very much:

1. Hellions - They are simply too cost effective against workers, especially with the advanced AI that lines up workers when they are running away. Either reduce the splash radius or fix it. It's not fun when one build can win you the game, even if you're prepared for it.

2. Sentry - For the same reason everyone else has said. I feel like FF is broken in it's current state. You shouldn't be able to spam one spell mindlessy and turn one battle from a win to a loss like that. Either Sentries need to have a cooldown before they can cast another FF or FF needs to be a channeling ability like the Phoenix's graviton beam. The channeling effect I feel is the best choice. You would actually have to think before you just spam FFs. I also hate it that whenever a Protoss army gets caught out of position, they can make a wall of FFs and just run away to a better spot. It's a very forgiving race when FFs are in play. If you had to actually sacrifice some of those Sentries to save your army, then it would be much more balanced if you ask me.

3. Medivac Dropship - What were you guys thinking combining a Medic and a Dropship, Blizzard? This makes drops so overpowered. Instead of only being able to carry 5 marines and 3 Medics, you can now carry 8 marines that can easily pick off Tech Structures before you can even save them all while getting healed after every stim! Hooray!
A marine walks into a bar and asks, "Wheres the counter?"
Bertyo
Profile Joined February 2011
United States29 Posts
June 04 2011 08:27 GMT
#763

- What 3 units in the game need to go into the redesign list?
Collossus
Stalker
Raven
- What mechanics do you find needing tweaks? or badly designed.
Forcefield and protoss tier 1 strength ( too weak )

IntoTheEmo
Profile Joined February 2009
Singapore1169 Posts
June 04 2011 08:38 GMT
#764
1 geyser to encourage gas play/macro

Hydralisks are by far the most uninspired unit in the game right now, useful or not they're just plain boring and slow.

I'm also unimpressed by the way the Phoenix is designed. Moving shots that require no micro with the ability to lift up units. Every time I see Phoenixes, I feel like leaving immediately, cuz then you're kinda forced to use Hydras, and well... what I said about Hydras earlier. Like in BW where Corsairs were superior to Mutas but could be beat with superior play, and you could move out without fear of Phoenixes slaughtering your entire Muta flock on sight.

MULEs are a poor concept that show Blizzard's inability to grasp the basic rules of Starcraft - the economic game. Giving one race with the most efficient mineral only unit the ability to manipulate their mineral count so drastically, imbalanced or not, shouldn't have found it's way into the game.

Strangely I have no problem with Colossi, even though they are just glorified Prism tanks.
MMOs kill APM. However Proleague plus BW Proscene music increase APM -> 100. 이제동 Fighting! Highest ranked Jaedong owner in FPL10 = clearly #1 Jaedong fan~! <- Keeping my sig from 2010
aZealot
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
New Zealand5447 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-04 10:19:15
June 04 2011 10:17 GMT
#765
Apart from whatever else I've said in this thread, the main point of which was small buffs to Protoss gateway units, I wonder if the Immortal should not return to being a gateway unit (as I believe it originally was, and should do in terms of lore being the old Dragoon from SC1/BW). It probably shouldn't be accessible directly from the gateway, but through an upgrade at Core and should certainly be at least a little cheaper than it is now (250/100!). The availability of the Immortal in reasonable numbers would help meet mass Roach/Marauder pressure while, more importantly, increasing Protoss small unit efficiency thus opening up more aggressive play styles for many Toss players.

The Robo bay could then just make Colossus, Prism and Observers (with the Colossus maybe available with 6 range; the Support Bay would be required for the range buff and other robo upgrades. It would be nice if they added the increased observer sight range upgrade from SC1/BW as well).
KT best KT ~ 2014
Daralii
Profile Joined March 2010
United States16991 Posts
June 04 2011 10:24 GMT
#766
On June 04 2011 19:17 aZealot wrote:
Apart from whatever else I've said in this thread, the main point of which was small buffs to Protoss gateway units, I wonder if the Immortal should not return to being a gateway unit (as I believe it originally was, and should do in terms of lore being the old Dragoon from SC1/BW).

This is correct. Originally, the immortal was attached to the cybernetics core alongside the stalker. The sentry was built from a robotics facility(the immortal is a piloted strider, the sentry is a drone, go figure).

What if the immortal took the sentry's place, but didn't have hardened shields or their bonus vs armored units(maybe make them 30+20 rather than 20+30?) until upgraded, and then warp gate was pushed back onto the twilight council/templar archives?
Fear is freedom! Subjugation is liberation! Contradiction is truth!
aZealot
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
New Zealand5447 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-04 10:41:01
June 04 2011 10:38 GMT
#767
On June 04 2011 19:24 Daralii wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 04 2011 19:17 aZealot wrote:
Apart from whatever else I've said in this thread, the main point of which was small buffs to Protoss gateway units, I wonder if the Immortal should not return to being a gateway unit (as I believe it originally was, and should do in terms of lore being the old Dragoon from SC1/BW).

This is correct. Originally, the immortal was attached to the cybernetics core alongside the stalker. The sentry was built from a robotics facility(the immortal is a piloted strider, the sentry is a drone, go figure).

What if the immortal took the sentry's place, but didn't have hardened shields or their bonus vs armored units(maybe make them 30+20 rather than 20+30?) until upgraded, and then warp gate was pushed back onto the twilight council/templar archives?


Thanks, I wasn't sure. The sentry from the Robo bay? That late in the game? I wonder what purpose it was originally meant to serve then? It cant have been gateway support with FF/GS that late.

I think warp-gate of some kind would still be needed early game to withstand pushes and all-ins but maybe it can be a defensive warp-in, call it a phase-in where units are teleported/phased from the gateway (with a different animation) anywhere within the psionic field of a Nexus (basically your base). This can later perhaps be interconnected between adjacent Protoss bases (rather similar to the Zerg creep) allowing defensive reinforcement of the Protoss through phase-ins. This upgrade should be available at Core level with what we currently consider Warp Gate Tech available at Twilight Council. Warped in units should also be more expensive than Gateway/Phase in units. Perhaps only the Warp Prism is able to skip this upgrade by being instantly able to warp in (more expensive?) units which should then also open up the possibility of harass and more variety from Toss play.
KT best KT ~ 2014
taintmachine
Profile Joined May 2010
United States431 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-04 11:00:33
June 04 2011 10:50 GMT
#768
1. reapers, colo, and thors need to be redesigned. the colossus is boring and stupid, but it's one thing toss can do to force unit compositions (corruptors/vikings) that don't roll gateway units. it's not great design, but any changes to the colo's effectiveness will require gateway unit buffs i think. the thor is a very strange unit that doesn't seem to have a defined role. the reaper is prolly the most underused combat unit. (*edited this section)

2. i think the anti-micro abilities are the worst abilities to have in a game like this. fungal growth especially is ridiculous because it disables and damages in the same ability. i'd rate forcefield as being as bad as fungal growth, but forcefield's uses become limited as the game goes on. it can be very boring to watch some of these abilities at work (esp. FF all-ins, see: july vs mc finals)

i think there's also probably too much splash damage in the game and too much reliance on splash damage to beat units like marines and hydras. i think this makes for boring games, especially toss games. it can be easy to tell when a fairly large and expensive gateway army is about to lose against a similar tier composition, because the toss player didn't tech to T3 in time.

3. can't think of anything graphically/misc atm

4. i'm not too excited about additional units/buildings
Perseverance
Profile Joined February 2010
Japan2800 Posts
June 04 2011 10:59 GMT
#769
1. Reaper
2. Immortal
3. Corruptor
<3 Moonbattles
decaf
Profile Joined October 2010
Austria1797 Posts
June 04 2011 11:11 GMT
#770
If they were to remove FF and colossi then they had to rework the whole race, because protoss is balanced around them.

I just want battle to last much longer and require more micro. Micro also should affect the game greater, a-moving is just too effin strong.
Also remove units that are just plain boring like corruptors and overseers. It's mostly the zerg race that suffers from boring units. Reaper needs a rework though and toss is just badly designed to begin with.
SKtheAnathema
Profile Joined September 2010
United States885 Posts
June 04 2011 11:13 GMT
#771
Redesign the iconic Zerg unit, the hydralisk. There is no reason for a giant snake with spike arms and the head of an alien from Aliens is a slow-moving pussy unit.

Corruptors, regardless of utility, are the lamest unit in the game. Phoenix can pick stuff up and shoot double beams while moving around and Viking are goddamn badass Robotechs. Corruptors are flying jizz with a lame spell and lame attack animation. Their only saving grace is that they transform into Brood Lords, a really well-designed unit.
chainheart
Profile Joined April 2011
United States24 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-04 15:33:34
June 04 2011 15:32 GMT
#772
2. Sentry - For the same reason everyone else has said. I feel like FF is broken in it's current state. You shouldn't be able to spam one spell mindlessy and turn one battle from a win to a loss like that. Either Sentries need to have a cooldown before they can cast another FF or FF needs to be a channeling ability like the Phoenix's graviton beam. The channeling effect I feel is the best choice. You would actually have to think before you just spam FFs. I also hate it that whenever a Protoss army gets caught out of position, they can make a wall of FFs and just run away to a better spot. It's a very forgiving race when FFs are in play. If you had to actually sacrifice some of those Sentries to save your army, then it would be much more balanced if you ask me.


FFs should be either destructible by targeting them or have certain abilities that destroy them. I feel they should only be a means of altering position for a very short duration if the opponent can effectively counter them in some way. This is coming from a Toss player, where even in Silver they are very easy for me to cast. It feels like I'm cheating sometimes because my opponents only two options are to commit and lose or attempt to retreat and still lose a good portion of their army.
rdr
Profile Joined June 2011
Sweden48 Posts
June 04 2011 16:04 GMT
#773
On June 01 2011 01:55 nvs. wrote:
Colossus.

It's the root of all SC2's problems.

>.>

Colossus isn't even that good when 4 vikings or corrupts hard counter it. just fly to the side and intercept and your fine, the root to the problem is that they suck.
rdr
Profile Joined June 2011
Sweden48 Posts
June 04 2011 16:07 GMT
#774
On June 01 2011 02:16 GoDLy MD wrote:
Why is the OP so biased towards terran...?

Becouse david kim is smarter then you.
Frequencyy
Profile Joined April 2011
United States344 Posts
June 04 2011 16:11 GMT
#775
I would hardly call concussive shells anti micro. They are tweaking it greatly too, without it marauders wouldn't be too useful, i mean they'd still do alot of damage but concussive shell is vital against stalkers and zealots. I feel like to make sc2 more challenging we shouldn't be able to have an infinite amount of units in a group, which would make it much harder. DOn't make it like 12 units per group but like maybe 24? They still have alot to figure out. I would love to see a mobile mech unit, and two cool bio units for terran. As for zerg, buff hydralisk, don't bring back lurkers, that'd be imbalanced because zerg already has good aoe units, buff hydralisks, remove the mothership, nerf colossus. Bring back arbiter, and reaver and I'll play protoss again
You will not do incredible things without an incredible dream
rdr
Profile Joined June 2011
Sweden48 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-04 16:26:24
June 04 2011 16:23 GMT
#776
Its funny to see now after a year zerg have finally learn to use infestors. Infestors are probably the best unit in the game by far, and i dont whant to change them because like them even if im not a zerg player. But one thing they could do is make archons or some other units immune to mind controll.
Hypemeup
Profile Joined February 2011
Sweden2783 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-04 16:29:41
June 04 2011 16:27 GMT
#777
Infestors are probably the best unit in the game by far,


A certain canadian said that they are 100% without a doubt the most powerful unit in the game.


Tanks also don't overkill anymore either. Anyone that says tanks in SC2 are worse is a complete idiot. They're splash isn't as great, but unit clumping makes up for it as well as the smart targeting AI they have.


Tanks are not even close to their BW counterpart. You might want to play the game you are referencing before calling someone else an idiot.
Nazza
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Australia1654 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-05 04:56:24
June 05 2011 04:13 GMT
#778
To be removed/replaced:
Planetary Fortresses. Static defense should be used sparingly, if at all. It might give map control, but it doesn't require micro (Grabbing SCVs and right clicking a PF is not micro), unlike spider mines. And seriously, using upgraded CC's to stop/delay an army? That's a bit silly, imo.

Collosi: Shuttle/Reaver micro was so much more exciting to watch. These things require little micro, and they can't be micro'd anyways. It's more on you relying on stalkers to focus fire the units that attack the collosus

Viking/Banshee: Splitting the wraith into two units? Why?

Thors: At least valkries could fly and were somewhat mobile. You can pick them up in dropships, but you might as well play bio.

Roaches: It's a good concept, but the stats.... It's basically a Protoss unit in disguise.

Warp gates: As people have said, eliminates defender's advantage. (also can't use your keyboard to macro)

Immortals: Amount of skill required to use hardened shields: 0.

Chargelots: Slightly more skill required. Slightly.

Reapers: Aren't ever used past early early game. I get and appreciate that you can use them for scouting, but I'd prefer if all units had a role that lasted longer than one minute.

Mothership: Glorified arbiter indeed...

To be tweaked:
Hellion: It's really slow. I find it hard to see hellions line up good shots just because it is slow. I would replace blue flame for hellion speed any day. It's better to see good micro from players than a ridiculous damage output.

Carriers: Old carrier micro doesn't exist anymore, and I really fail to see any reason why it got removed.

Warp Prisms: Not used enough. Perhaps they are too slow? I want to see storm drops yo.

Fungal growth/Forcefield: Anti-micro. You can't really do anything against these. Ironically, they are probably the best spells in the game because they can be used defensively and offensively. If anti-micro spells are meant to be in the game, it should be late game tech and counterable (SC2 counterparts to arbiters, science vessels, defilers)

Overseer: costs 100 gas. Acts as detector. Really poor spells. You only get these against cloaked units.

Raven: What kind of spells are these? For 200 gas, I get:
a 125 energy spell that might not even kill things (has to be researched)
a 25 energy spell that summons a turret
a 100 energy spell that blocks 20 particle attacks

Not exactly enough to warrant its use in standard play, considering you can now get two ghosts for one raven...

My Thoughts on A-Move units:
In BW, there is this unit called a hydralisk. It has 2 upgrades, one for range, and one for speed. It has no extra functions, except for morphing into a lurker. It is cheap to produce and easy to mass. It is, in a sense, the perfect A-move unit. It is used in the staple of ZvP. However, you NEVER A-Move this unit. Protoss had Psi Storm and Reavers. You have to storm dodge to get the most out of your hydralisks, and have to scourge the shuttles/move hydras out of the way to not lose your army . An A-Move unit ceases to be an A-move unit as soon as it becomes necessary to micro them.

TLDR: You should have to babysit your units. Game is more fun that way.
No one ever remembers second place, eh? eh? GIVE ME COMMAND
Nazza
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Australia1654 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-05 04:27:07
June 05 2011 04:26 GMT
#779


1. Hellions - They are simply too cost effective against workers, especially with the advanced AI that lines up workers when they are running away. Either reduce the splash radius or fix it. It's not fun when one build can win you the game, even if you're prepared for it.



What advanced AI?

Watch 0:46
No one ever remembers second place, eh? eh? GIVE ME COMMAND
Belha
Profile Joined December 2010
Italy2850 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-05 07:42:04
June 05 2011 07:40 GMT
#780
Is a very easy question: There could be many opinions about uninteresting mechanics, but the most OBVIOUS are all those cheap 1a units: marauders, roaches and collosi.

And also, the overall dps in the game should be slightly decreased, to make battles more interesting.
Chicken gank op
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