EPTOf course high templar storm drops are always nice vs T and Z. Typically dont have storm vs protoss.
I have seen a couple Colo drops on workers but have not done one in awhile.
Warp prisms are nice to help snipe tanks also. w/Immortals
Why Protoss Drops Are Rare (Warp Prism Analysis) - Page 15
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Sufinsil
United States760 Posts
Of course high templar storm drops are always nice vs T and Z. Typically dont have storm vs protoss. I have seen a couple Colo drops on workers but have not done one in awhile. Warp prisms are nice to help snipe tanks also. w/Immortals | ||
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weiliem
2071 Posts
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
The reason you don't see more warp prisms is just because of colossi and the fact that Protoss don't have a whole lot of reason to harass. | ||
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Irrelevant
United States2364 Posts
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GenuineOne
United States37 Posts
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Zaros
United Kingdom3692 Posts
Now as a protoss i can afford to seperate my army a bit more as i dont have to protect collosus and so drop become viable but to make them more viable i need to research the speed upgrade, so now i have to build a robotics bay 200/200 and then upgrade which i believe is 100/100. So not only do i have to go down a tech path that i dont particulary need, that building will also trigger mass vikings from a terran opponent which basically nulifies the drops. My solution would be to make the drop an upgrade from the cybernetics core so that protoss doesnt have to go collosus and drops to make an efficient tech path. | ||
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drooL
United Kingdom2108 Posts
Another point though, that is worthwile mentioning, is that the WP doesn't have any armor but is labeled as armored never the less. Thus it takes extra damage from vikings which makes it much more vulnerable. | ||
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Tumor
Austria192 Posts
Grubby showed a good usage during one stream session. | ||
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Ashby
Australia204 Posts
It has a SPEED UPGRADE... that's right a SPEED UPGRADE. With their speed upgrade they are extremely quick and a lot quicker than medivacs, which easily compensates for the one less armour and 10 less hp points compared to a medivac. I think the reason protoss don't use warp prysms is due to protosses main army potential composition being the most powerful of the 3 races and requires the least amount of micro. Beating a 200/200 army of zealot, stalker, sentry and colosus as terran requires so much micro to survive from the aoe of the colosus and the damage the zealots and the forcefields from the sentries. It gives terran a much higher skill cap overall but at the same time makes terran extremely hard to play macro games at the lower leagues. When protoss start using the warp prysm I think the race will get nerfed by blizz BIG TIME just like terran got nerfed not long after the game was released. AND no I don't think the game is Imbalanced I just think between the different skill brackets terran is much harder to play when the players skill level is low. | ||
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BronzeKnee
United States5217 Posts
Marines with stim (or even Marauders with stim) on the otherhand with their ridiculous DPS are cheap and low tech, and eat workers alive. As do Hellions. So they are great to drop. The best Protoss can really do is Zealots and DT's, both of which are vastly inferior to Marines and Hellions. Furthermore, Terran needs Medivacs for healing 1st, so they have the unit necessary to drop even if they didn't plan drops. Thus the availability of drops becomes much easier. To a lesser extent, the same could be said for Zerg already having Overlords (though they require upgrades). Warp Prisms are really only used for one thing, drops, since pylons can do their other job (creating power fields) cheaper and without cutting into valuable robo time. In fact the Protoss race doesn't have harrassment worker killers in general. In addition to Marines and Hellions, Terran also Banshees which eat workers. Compare them to Void Rays that take forever to kill worker (VR's are more building killers). You just don't get much out of drops with Protoss, still I use them frequently just to keep Terran players on their toes, but I long for a cheap, high DPS unit. | ||
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RoachyRoach
81 Posts
Although it wouldnt be all that great, I still think it would be cool to load up a probe and go drop a dark shrine in some obscure corner of the map, no pylon needed, dont even need power to finish construction. | ||
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beute
Germany197 Posts
On May 03 2011 23:45 Tumor wrote: a warp prism can carry alot of units with the warp in ability. u can pick up 4 zealots or stalkers and warp in additional units and *bumm* u have a strong little force in the middle of the enemy base. Grubby showed a good usage during one stream session. and when the enemy comes back with his main force you lose all the warp in units without beeing able to rescue them. terrans can pick up their drop pretty easily, they can do alot of dmg and come out unharmed. the medivacs heal the smaller dmg the "drop protection" forces or static defenses do and if the enemy comes up with a huge force, they just leave the base. zerg even has the same option, but considering that zerg units are generally just throw away units ,it's pointless. but they've the option to do so. they'll have more than just 2 dropships anyways... Now for protoss, once you warp in units, you will be A) unable to rescue these units, they're suicidal. you cant rescue more than your warp prism carries. B) you will be even more vulnerable for an attack, not only did you split up your forces, but you even used your damn warp in for some suicide attack. imho the warp prism is just good for one thing, and that is dark templar/high templar drops. and that is not even the strength of the warp prism, it's the dark/high templars strength to be devastating even if you drop just one of them... | ||
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jermo
Canada46 Posts
I use warp prism's regularly though. If you bring it with your army and use it as a proxy pylon, it's incredibly useful - especially against Zerg's. | ||
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RoachyRoach
81 Posts
On May 03 2011 23:55 Ashby wrote: And what does a warp prysm have that a medivac doesn't? It has a SPEED UPGRADE... that's right a SPEED UPGRADE. With their speed upgrade they are extremely quick and a lot quicker than medivacs, which easily compensates for the one less armour and 10 less hp points compared to a medivac. I think the reason protoss don't use warp prysms is due to protosses main army potential composition being the most powerful of the 3 races and requires the least amount of micro. Beating a 200/200 army of zealot, stalker, sentry and colosus as terran requires so much micro to survive from the aoe of the colosus and the damage the zealots and the forcefields from the sentries. It gives terran a much higher skill cap overall but at the same time makes terran extremely hard to play macro games at the lower leagues. When protoss start using the warp prysm I think the race will get nerfed by blizz BIG TIME just like terran got nerfed not long after the game was released. AND no I don't think the game is Imbalanced I just think between the different skill brackets terran is much harder to play when the players skill level is low. I dont agree that terran takes more micro.... | ||
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twiitar
Germany372 Posts
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freetgy
1720 Posts
HTs were pretty good, but are not as useful as before the nerf DTs are viable if your opponent is bad and doesn't build turrets in the end going for (early/mid) drops is pretty all-in as Protoss. and everything else is just flawed in their use Drop Zealots? SCVs run away Drop Stalker? is there a combo with less dps? Drop Sentry ? even worse Colossus? interesting but Problem Colossus lacks damage, it high dps of course but that due to splash so workers can run away. we just don't have the Units to use Dropharass to full potential, meaning getting free damage. Most times you will lose units, which is never good. Thats why Terran drops are so good, they have insane dps but also great mobility so you don't lose anything if your playing smart. if your opponent has similar army strengh and you go for drop harass it just doesn't work. If your opponent retreats and let himself contain, of course it effectiv , but if he is smart he will just push you, and cause you lack quite some fightsupply in your base you will die. | ||
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RedMosquito
United States280 Posts
I think the real reason some toss dont use warprisms is because they are too comfortable turtling to the late game. So it doesn't occur to them that they should be attacking their opponent while they're building their death ball. Good protoss will do both and its extremely hard to deal with. | ||
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Aristodemus
England1992 Posts
On May 03 2011 23:55 Ashby wrote: And what does a warp prysm have that a medivac doesn't? It has a SPEED UPGRADE... that's right a SPEED UPGRADE. With their speed upgrade they are extremely quick and a lot quicker than medivacs, which easily compensates for the one less armour and 10 less hp points compared to a medivac. I think the reason protoss don't use warp prysms is due to protosses main army potential composition being the most powerful of the 3 races and requires the least amount of micro. Beating a 200/200 army of zealot, stalker, sentry and colosus as terran requires so much micro to survive from the aoe of the colosus and the damage the zealots and the forcefields from the sentries. It gives terran a much higher skill cap overall but at the same time makes terran extremely hard to play macro games at the lower leagues. When protoss start using the warp prysm I think the race will get nerfed by blizz BIG TIME just like terran got nerfed not long after the game was released. AND no I don't think the game is Imbalanced I just think between the different skill brackets terran is much harder to play when the players skill level is low. That just isnt true, the protoss army requires alot of micro. A terran army and even a zerg army copes much better with just 1a than protoss. As for the reason i dont use warp prism, its because of its HP. That said, i dont think zerg have as good drop system as terran either. Four marauders in a medivac with stim is very good, it can be devastating (check out Kas or Demuslim style TvP). Zerg or Protoss just dont have this. Im not complaining its just a unique part of the race. | ||
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DARKHYDRA
United States303 Posts
As for drops, I think zealots are a good unit to drop. They're just a pain to deal with because it takes a bit to kill them. Once they start getting upgradea they get better. | ||
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Talin
Montenegro10532 Posts
On May 03 2011 06:39 `ChroMaTe_ wrote: 2. Cost & Production Value The Warp Prism costs 200 Minerals, not exactly cheap. Medivacs cost 100/100 and Overlords cost just 100, with the research to be able to drop costing 200/200, which is only a one time cost, so the more drops you use the more cost efficient the research becomes. However, where are these units made? Medivacs from Starports, which in most cases are going to be producing Medivacs during the whole game. Overlords from Larvae of course and are staple. However, the Warp Prism is made from the Robotics, taking away crucial time that an Immortal or Colossi could be building at. My point is that from the Protoss' perspective, making a Warp Prism even to start with is a choice that might come back and bite them later in the game. This statement assumes that the Protoss is required to use Robotics to produce Colossi, which although a popular thing to do currently, isn't exactly a Protoss strategy axiom at all. Warp Prism obviously has the highest synergy with Gateway units, especially high end Gateway units (Templar). This means that whenever Protoss aims to Warp Prism harass, the correct choice of main tech will almost always be Twilight. It leads to quick upgrades for the bulk of your army, and it leads to Templars which are the best damage dealers and the most efficient units to load into a Warp Prism. Colossi and Immortals are really not compatible with this style. If you want a more mobile, heavy harassment, all-over-the-map style, Robotics should be dedicated to Observer and Warp Prism production, and the money you would normally be spending on Colossi/Immortals should go to getting a fuckton of Gateways off of 3 bases, getting upgrades + Charge, and maxing on upgraded Zealot/Stalker/HT force. On May 03 2011 06:39 `ChroMaTe_ wrote: 3. Secondary Effect The Medivac can heal the drop units, increasing the cost effectiveness of the Terran units. Overlords just provide supply, and the Warp Prism can create a power field. That allows you to of course, warp in more units than you can have in the actual Warp Prism, but in conjunction with Point 1, the Warp Prism can get picked off some of the time and your units will be cancelled. Which brings me to the next and final point. I think the warp-in mechanic is misunderstood atm. It's not so much a warp-my-units-in-his-base ability, it's more of a self-reinforcing ability that Warp Prism can use in a convenient nearby location to "refill" the lost units and get back to harassing. Warping in anything while inside the opponent's base should be avoided at any cost. Warp-in mode makes the Prism very vulnerable and you're bringing in more units than you can load back up in the WP, essentially sacrificing those extra units you warped in. Protoss units are not 50 mineral worth Marines, you can't afford to warp in suicide squads. On May 03 2011 06:39 `ChroMaTe_ wrote: 4. Cargo Capacity All three cargo transports can carry a maximum of 8 supply worth of units. However, Protoss does not have a 1 supply unit other than the Probe. At most, our drops would consist of 4 Zealots, 4 Stalkers or a mix of both. Sure, the argument would be "Just make more Prisms", but take into consideration Point 2 and how that takes time from the Robotics Facility. Medivacs can carry 8 Marines, a scary drop, and Overlords can carry 8 Zerglings. The ability to only drop 4 units at a time appeals even less to the Protoss player and would once again, refrain from dropping. Terran drops are unmatched, I won't argue against that, but given the cost and harass efficiency of Protoss units, increasing Warp Prism capacity wouldn't help this much. DT/HT drops are much less risky and just as efficient in small numbers, and while 8 Zealots in the mineral line is certainly better than 4, it's not something that would completely change the way people feel about using WPs. Protoss drops are rare because for the most part, nobody feels the NEED to drop and it doesn't fit into most popular strategies today. That will change when other races force us to adapt. The same way Zergs adapted recently when they realized that bulking Roach/Hydra in a single ball and relying on Corruptors to kill Colossi is just a horrible way to play the game and no longer works against any competent Protoss, so they were forced to start Baneling bombing and Roach dropping. Protoss deathballs are an equally horrible way to play the game. It's just another of those "enjoy while it works" strategies, but eventually we will be forced to transition into playing a much more active style and then we'll need the Warp Prism no matter how useless or wrong it looks now. | ||
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