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Interview with SC2 Lead Designer Dustin Browder - Page 7

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
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duckii
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany1017 Posts
April 28 2011 16:49 GMT
#121
On April 29 2011 01:37 loveeholicce wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 29 2011 01:20 SKC wrote:
On April 29 2011 01:16 loveeholicce wrote:
On April 29 2011 01:09 GeorgeForeman wrote:
On April 29 2011 00:23 awesomoecalypse wrote:lots of intelligent things


Just wanted to thank you for giving a little bit of perspective in this thread. SC2 hasn't even been released for 12 months yet and all people can do is bitch. There hasn't even been one expansion. The game will change. New units will be implemented. And the metagame a year from now won't look like the metagame does currently. It's fine to think constructively about how weak some things are, but to think you know enough about the game now to say definitively that it's horribly imbalanced (a position lots of people in this thread seem to take) is absurd.


New units won't be implemented


New units will be implemented at expansions, I don't remember ever reading that this wasn't the case, and I'm pretty sure Blizzard themselfs said they would/could do that, I'm not sure where you got that information.


Then you read wrong...they won't be


Q. New units?

DB: Yeah.
http://gameaxis.com/exclusive-interview-with-dustin-browder-starcraft-2s-lead-designer-part-1/
Archerofaiur
Profile Joined August 2008
United States4101 Posts
April 28 2011 16:49 GMT
#122
Much of Heart of the Swarm will be talking about the story of Sarah Kerrigan, and many things will be happening to her, and she might be attacked quite a number of times too.


Oh no! :O
http://sclegacy.com/news/28-scl/250-starcraftlegacy-macro-theorycrafting-contest-winners
BLinD-RawR
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
ALLEYCAT BLUES51717 Posts
April 28 2011 16:50 GMT
#123
On April 29 2011 01:37 loveeholicce wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 29 2011 01:20 SKC wrote:
On April 29 2011 01:16 loveeholicce wrote:
On April 29 2011 01:09 GeorgeForeman wrote:
On April 29 2011 00:23 awesomoecalypse wrote:lots of intelligent things


Just wanted to thank you for giving a little bit of perspective in this thread. SC2 hasn't even been released for 12 months yet and all people can do is bitch. There hasn't even been one expansion. The game will change. New units will be implemented. And the metagame a year from now won't look like the metagame does currently. It's fine to think constructively about how weak some things are, but to think you know enough about the game now to say definitively that it's horribly imbalanced (a position lots of people in this thread seem to take) is absurd.


New units won't be implemented


New units will be implemented at expansions, I don't remember ever reading that this wasn't the case, and I'm pretty sure Blizzard themselfs said they would/could do that, I'm not sure where you got that information.


Then you read wrong...they won't be


uhhh of course they will.Its an expansion there are always new units in expansions.
Brood War EICWoo Jung Ho, never forget.| Twitter: @BLinDRawR
Azarkon
Profile Joined January 2010
United States21060 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-28 16:56:33
April 28 2011 16:50 GMT
#124
Well, if we're going to go by what pro players say...

Idra (Z): Zerg is underpowered

Nestea (Z): Zerg is underpowered

FruitDealer (Z): Zerg is underpowered

MC (P): Zerg is not underpowered

MVP (T): Terran is underpowered

Tyler (P): Protoss is not overpowered

Incontrol (P): Protoss doesn't seem to be overpowered?

IIRC, that's what I've read so far.
thebole1
Profile Joined April 2011
Serbia126 Posts
April 28 2011 16:53 GMT
#125
150mm strike cannons thors > immortal.


hahaha did you ever see that thor 250 mm canons kill imortall ?

also i didnt see stim pack maraders vs blink stalkers ( in dustin story this 2 should be equal metchup)
that stalkers conter maraders....

i yust dont like that dustin dont admit that his game now atm have plenty of problems...

if blink stalkers shoud be = stimed maraders / than dustin made that to work... simply it dosnt work now....

now game go this way for terrans everything is abouth steam pack....

for zergs everything is abouth fungl and banglings....

and for toss everything is abouth colloss and (now nerfed High templars)

masive dps need to be nerfed in my opinion simply becous game will have comebacks ...

simply if stimed MMM kill toss army that is gg for toss...
if zerg fungell Marines and do good with banglings that is gg for terran...
if toss live to made big army and come with 5 colloss blink stalkers and charg zealots that is gg for terran....or zerg....sry for my ENG
Lingy
Profile Joined December 2010
England201 Posts
April 28 2011 17:04 GMT
#126
I dont like how he talked about win% to determine balance, if anything that just proves that the matchmaking system works
Just my oinion on it though
Nice interview
Hydraliskuuuuhh
loveeholicce
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Korea (South)785 Posts
April 28 2011 17:05 GMT
#127
On April 29 2011 01:50 BLinD-RawR wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 29 2011 01:37 loveeholicce wrote:
On April 29 2011 01:20 SKC wrote:
On April 29 2011 01:16 loveeholicce wrote:
On April 29 2011 01:09 GeorgeForeman wrote:
On April 29 2011 00:23 awesomoecalypse wrote:lots of intelligent things


Just wanted to thank you for giving a little bit of perspective in this thread. SC2 hasn't even been released for 12 months yet and all people can do is bitch. There hasn't even been one expansion. The game will change. New units will be implemented. And the metagame a year from now won't look like the metagame does currently. It's fine to think constructively about how weak some things are, but to think you know enough about the game now to say definitively that it's horribly imbalanced (a position lots of people in this thread seem to take) is absurd.


New units won't be implemented


New units will be implemented at expansions, I don't remember ever reading that this wasn't the case, and I'm pretty sure Blizzard themselfs said they would/could do that, I'm not sure where you got that information.


Then you read wrong...they won't be


uhhh of course they will.Its an expansion there are always new units in expansions.


I remember they said in an interview like a month ago that adding new units would make the game feel too clustered so they won;t be doing it in multiplayer. I'll see if i can find the interview
상처받은 그대에 가슴에 사랑을 심어줄께요♥
Hikko
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1126 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-28 17:08:14
April 28 2011 17:07 GMT
#128
On April 29 2011 02:04 Lingy wrote:
I dont like how he talked about win% to determine balance, if anything that just proves that the matchmaking system works
Just my oinion on it though
Nice interview


If you watched the Blizzcon panels, they have solid data on equivalent level MMRs and win-rates for match ups, adjusted to ignore the 50% ladder matchmaking. They use that data, not the ladder working, to make their decisions, among many other things. They know the ladder matchmaking works, and they know how to ignore it.


On April 29 2011 02:05 loveeholicce wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 29 2011 01:50 BLinD-RawR wrote:
On April 29 2011 01:37 loveeholicce wrote:
On April 29 2011 01:20 SKC wrote:
On April 29 2011 01:16 loveeholicce wrote:
On April 29 2011 01:09 GeorgeForeman wrote:
On April 29 2011 00:23 awesomoecalypse wrote:lots of intelligent things


Just wanted to thank you for giving a little bit of perspective in this thread. SC2 hasn't even been released for 12 months yet and all people can do is bitch. There hasn't even been one expansion. The game will change. New units will be implemented. And the metagame a year from now won't look like the metagame does currently. It's fine to think constructively about how weak some things are, but to think you know enough about the game now to say definitively that it's horribly imbalanced (a position lots of people in this thread seem to take) is absurd.


New units won't be implemented


New units will be implemented at expansions, I don't remember ever reading that this wasn't the case, and I'm pretty sure Blizzard themselfs said they would/could do that, I'm not sure where you got that information.


Then you read wrong...they won't be


uhhh of course they will.Its an expansion there are always new units in expansions.


I remember they said in an interview like a month ago that adding new units would make the game feel too clustered so they won;t be doing it in multiplayer. I'll see if i can find the interview


From what I understand, they will remove units as they add more units to the game in order to keep things from becoming too cluttered.
♥
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States14220 Posts
April 28 2011 17:07 GMT
#129
3 month seasons wtf?
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
ALPINA
Profile Joined May 2010
3791 Posts
April 28 2011 17:08 GMT
#130
On April 29 2011 01:50 Azarkon wrote:
Well, if we're going to go by what pro players say...

Idra (Z): Zerg is underpowered

Nestea (Z): Zerg is underpowered

FruitDealer (Z): Zerg is underpowered

MC (P): Zerg is not underpowered

MVP (T): Terran is underpowered

Tyler (P): Protoss is not overpowered

Incontrol (P): Protoss doesn't seem to be overpowered?

IIRC, that's what I've read so far.


Yeah players not going to say their race is OP, but I am sure most of protoss pros gonna agree that PvZ is toss favoured
You should never underestimate the predictability of stupidity
flodeskum
Profile Joined September 2010
Iceland1267 Posts
April 28 2011 17:11 GMT
#131
On April 29 2011 02:05 loveeholicce wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 29 2011 01:50 BLinD-RawR wrote:
On April 29 2011 01:37 loveeholicce wrote:
On April 29 2011 01:20 SKC wrote:
On April 29 2011 01:16 loveeholicce wrote:
On April 29 2011 01:09 GeorgeForeman wrote:
On April 29 2011 00:23 awesomoecalypse wrote:lots of intelligent things


Just wanted to thank you for giving a little bit of perspective in this thread. SC2 hasn't even been released for 12 months yet and all people can do is bitch. There hasn't even been one expansion. The game will change. New units will be implemented. And the metagame a year from now won't look like the metagame does currently. It's fine to think constructively about how weak some things are, but to think you know enough about the game now to say definitively that it's horribly imbalanced (a position lots of people in this thread seem to take) is absurd.


New units won't be implemented


New units will be implemented at expansions, I don't remember ever reading that this wasn't the case, and I'm pretty sure Blizzard themselfs said they would/could do that, I'm not sure where you got that information.


Then you read wrong...they won't be


uhhh of course they will.Its an expansion there are always new units in expansions.


I remember they said in an interview like a month ago that adding new units would make the game feel too clustered so they won;t be doing it in multiplayer. I'll see if i can find the interview

They said that there would be some new 'single player only units' in HOTS, stuff like that bunker thing.

But that isn't the same as saying the expansions won't have new units. They obviously will, don't even try to convince yourself they won't.
IdrA: " my fans are kinda retarded"
PH
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States6173 Posts
April 28 2011 17:13 GMT
#132
Lol? Counters in BW were so much softer than in SC2. I was always one to more or less be on the dev's side hoping they'd fix things up and never really had a problem with Browder before, but the answer to that first question has made me lose all hope.

He has no fucking clue what he's talking about.
Hello
loveeholicce
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Korea (South)785 Posts
April 28 2011 17:27 GMT
#133
On April 29 2011 02:11 flodeskum wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 29 2011 02:05 loveeholicce wrote:
On April 29 2011 01:50 BLinD-RawR wrote:
On April 29 2011 01:37 loveeholicce wrote:
On April 29 2011 01:20 SKC wrote:
On April 29 2011 01:16 loveeholicce wrote:
On April 29 2011 01:09 GeorgeForeman wrote:
On April 29 2011 00:23 awesomoecalypse wrote:lots of intelligent things


Just wanted to thank you for giving a little bit of perspective in this thread. SC2 hasn't even been released for 12 months yet and all people can do is bitch. There hasn't even been one expansion. The game will change. New units will be implemented. And the metagame a year from now won't look like the metagame does currently. It's fine to think constructively about how weak some things are, but to think you know enough about the game now to say definitively that it's horribly imbalanced (a position lots of people in this thread seem to take) is absurd.


New units won't be implemented


New units will be implemented at expansions, I don't remember ever reading that this wasn't the case, and I'm pretty sure Blizzard themselfs said they would/could do that, I'm not sure where you got that information.


Then you read wrong...they won't be


uhhh of course they will.Its an expansion there are always new units in expansions.


I remember they said in an interview like a month ago that adding new units would make the game feel too clustered so they won;t be doing it in multiplayer. I'll see if i can find the interview

They said that there would be some new 'single player only units' in HOTS, stuff like that bunker thing.

But that isn't the same as saying the expansions won't have new units. They obviously will, don't even try to convince yourself they won't.


Well single player is kind of irrelevant atm, we're just talking about multiplayer.

Here's the interview I was refering to:
http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/710301/esports-interview-with-starcraft-2-game-director-dustin-browder-and-senior-esports-manager-joong-kim/

From this thread:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=192822

But you can imagine we do have some challenges ahead of us. We don't want to just add another three units to the game for this expansion, three units to the game for the next expansion. That would be a very bloated game for us at that point and the chances that some of those units would be duplicates of other units that already exist in the game in one form or another would be extremely high. So we're looking at the different solutions. We don't know for sure yet, but there will definitely be fixes and changes and various improvements to the multiplayer experience.


The implication seems to be that adding new units would make the game too clustered, bloated, etc. Of course they might end up modifying units or adding an ability or perhaps replacing a unit, you never know, but I highly doubt they'll do what brood war did and take the complete game and add more stuff to it. Besides, WoL is definitely a more complete game than Starcraft 1 pre- BW was.
상처받은 그대에 가슴에 사랑을 심어줄께요♥
Chaosvuistje
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands2581 Posts
April 28 2011 17:38 GMT
#134
So kerrigan will be attacked? Gee, I never saw that coming in a game that revolves around intergalactic space war.

To be fair, she probably deserves it. Imagine the hatemail she got when the artifact got her back to human and all the people that followed her blog and twitter were left without updates for like 5 years. There ought to be some lunatics that would be out to kill her for her non-updating.

The interview doesn't include THAT much news, but I'm very excited that there will be more CG in HotS .
akaname
Profile Joined July 2010
United Kingdom599 Posts
April 28 2011 17:45 GMT
#135
I want to make 2 points for those upset by this interview:
* dustin speaks English only I would guess, so this would have been translated and then back translated. This opens up even more opportunity for change in the tone and meaning. So don't take any specific lines so harshly.

* I am Protoss and I think Zerg are UP, but the very fact that July can reach the finals, and that we have 2 Zerg champs, indicates that the game isn't totally FUBAR. Yes there's probably room for improvement, Zerg are v hard to play, but it's not impossible to win as them.
There can be only none
hitman133295
Profile Joined April 2011
30 Posts
April 28 2011 18:07 GMT
#136
On April 29 2011 02:08 Alpina wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 29 2011 01:50 Azarkon wrote:
Well, if we're going to go by what pro players say...

Idra (Z): Zerg is underpowered

Nestea (Z): Zerg is underpowered

FruitDealer (Z): Zerg is underpowered

MC (P): Zerg is not underpowered

MVP (T): Terran is underpowered

Tyler (P): Protoss is not overpowered

Incontrol (P): Protoss doesn't seem to be overpowered?

IIRC, that's what I've read so far.


Yeah players not going to say their race is OP, but I am sure most of protoss pros gonna agree that PvZ is toss favoured

Not anymore until Zerg figure out how to use their Infestor. I've been watching IdrA's stream recently and his style has changed to very heavy infestor. And I have seen the success from it in both ZvT and ZvP, basically just infestor + broodlords = autowin in ZvT, roaches, lings in early game vs Protoss or infestor for FG in late game.
hitman133295
Profile Joined April 2011
30 Posts
April 28 2011 18:08 GMT
#137
On April 29 2011 02:04 Lingy wrote:
I dont like how he talked about win% to determine balance, if anything that just proves that the matchmaking system works
Just my oinion on it though
Nice interview

What should he do? Go to every LR on TL and hear the QQ from Zerg and Terran to determine the balance ?
Bleak
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Turkey3059 Posts
April 28 2011 18:21 GMT
#138
Whatever his methods or views about designing Starcraft 2 may be, I don't care. When I see this guy smiling, it makes me chuckle for minutes. He looks soooo funny and cheerful in his photos. He's a cool guy and doing his best imo.
"I am a beacon of knowledge blazing out across a black sea of ignorance. "
Attica
Profile Joined February 2010
United States277 Posts
April 28 2011 19:09 GMT
#139
Oh man, I think I died a little inside after reading this.
hugman
Profile Joined June 2009
Sweden4644 Posts
April 28 2011 19:14 GMT
#140
On April 29 2011 01:05 loveeholicce wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 29 2011 00:58 dtz wrote:
On April 29 2011 00:45 ChApFoU wrote:
I really find it hard to believe that ZvP stats at diamond and above are in the 50-55% range. If you want to have somewhat meaningful stats about the game you gotta ignore the inferior leagues where the concept of balance is very different : It's more about what is easier/harder to master than about was is deeply imbalanced and almost impossible to overcome no matter the skill of the players (granted their opponents are in the same skill range).

I feel the 200/200 deathball issue kinda fits into that 2nd category ... Time will tell but Blizz is very wrong if they think they can ignore the pros opinion just because there's pros and thus have a financial interest in the balance issues. They may be partial sometimes, but they are also the ones that have the deepest understanding of the game's mechanics.


Sure but the pros also have conflicting opinions. Which pros do they have to listen to? The loudest? The ones who complain the most? The most succesful?

They keep in touch with pros all the time with survey form and also e-mails/bnet. But they can't make impulsive. Browder said that he thinks that there might be imbalanced in some matchup but if the data does not support it, there is nothing he can't do. And of course he does not mean data in bronze-diamond when he considers the pro scene. Despite what we think, the dude is not a complete idiot.


He's an idiot on several things but I agree this isn't one of them. I believe ZvP is broken but when I look at stats recently (in nasl and gom for example) they just don't seem to support it to the extent I feel it's there. Just from that I can understand why theyre cautious to implement balance changes. Also from what I hear they do a fairly good job of consulting pros. like I remember yesterday on Sheth's stream he said dayvie (david kim) had just asked him to play on the PTR to test some of the 1.3.3 patches. On top of that we just got an infestor buff. I don't think infestors are good in ZvP at all but it would still be silly to say theres an imbalance without letting this patch play out more. As incontrol pointed out on state of the game, a few months ago Protoss was the weakest race. They still get nerfed twice, and now theyre the strongest O-o


Zergs do win games, but they still don't have an answer for the Protoss lategame. If you don't secure a game winning advantage in the midgame, or before, then your chances of winning fall off a cliff.
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