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I only got to see a little but I think the production quality was top notch and I just want to give some praise to the guys who made it happen. I know us nerds give a lot of shit to the NASL for having a 30 minute pregame show but I think the back story is important and having pro players that have interacted with the players in game and have some background potentially makes the series a lot more exciting.
On an unrelated note, if IGN's target audience is new viewers I am not sure how they can get them. I know they have a much larger reach with their website and that could potentially lead people to watch but I just feel like that is a rough market but an extremely important one. Good luck to IGN in reaching out, I am happy to see someone with the foresight.
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The reason why the production value needs to be high is to draw in new people.
They'll see it, think it looks cool, and latch on.
NASL on the other hand, someone new looks at it and thinks its not that important since not a lot of work/effort was placed into it. It's got a big dollar sign that has no representation.
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On April 22 2011 14:40 jiveturkey wrote:
The only thing IPL has over NASL is production value.
The casters aren't as good. The matchups aren't as good. They don't have the stat tracking, standings, win rates vs different races, player profiles, team profiles, etc...
I'm surprised people care so much about things like the background music and the wall behind the casters. Why is that more important than the infrastructure housed on the NASL website and the quality of the matches.
They have some hiccups because they have a less experienced production team, but that can easily and will improve with time.
This hype over IPL is just the spillover of the disappointed from NASL. People are just mad about NASL. Same reason people thought Dreamhack was greatest thing on the face of this Earth; it came after MLG Dallas.
Production value is very, very important to attract casual viewers. As are the quality of the casters. I find djWHEAT and TotalBiscuit to be excellent casters, I can't get enough of them, whereas NASL casters wear on me after a game or 2. Obviously your opinion on casters doesn't match everyone's.
I'm surprised people care so much about stat tracking, win rates vs races, player profiles, team profiles, etc. The games are what matters for casual viewers. Not everyone is as hardcore into SC2 as you are.
The fact that NASL has sucked isn't the reason people are appreciating IPL. Even if NASL didn't exist, I'd still be loving the high quality, slick transitions, and great casting. The player pool will improve in quality over time through qualifiers, and the ones they have now aren't exactly bad either.
If IPL conflicts with anything in the future, I'll probably be tuning into the IPL because it's excelling in making for a great spectator experience. Unless the matches elsewhere are something like MC vs IdrA or equally epic. ^^
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TB truly has the voice of an Angel who's auctioning off his wings.
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Maybe it's the VODs on IGN's site, but not showing the live caster just makes the production a bit impersonal. I like watching the casters in GSL, Dreamhack, MLG, etc. I hope IGN can show the casters.
Otherwise, the production is better than NASL.
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Definitely the best NA tournament i've seen. I hate to bash NASL since it does no good for e-sports but if they want to be the biggest tourny in NA they better step it up.
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On April 22 2011 15:49 ThaZenith wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2011 14:40 jiveturkey wrote:
The only thing IPL has over NASL is production value.
The casters aren't as good. The matchups aren't as good. They don't have the stat tracking, standings, win rates vs different races, player profiles, team profiles, etc...
I'm surprised people care so much about things like the background music and the wall behind the casters. Why is that more important than the infrastructure housed on the NASL website and the quality of the matches.
They have some hiccups because they have a less experienced production team, but that can easily and will improve with time.
This hype over IPL is just the spillover of the disappointed from NASL. People are just mad about NASL. Same reason people thought Dreamhack was greatest thing on the face of this Earth; it came after MLG Dallas. Production value is very, very important to attract casual viewers. As are the quality of the casters. I find djWHEAT and TotalBiscuit to be excellent casters, I can't get enough of them
Actually, production value is extremely important to pretty much any viewer. I also agree that TotalBiscuit and djWHEAT are phenomenal casters and seem to be getting better at casting and following the action in SC2 with practice. I only watched around 40 minutes of IGN today and it was the best produced stream I've ever seen. I have no idea why people complain about the lack of "analytical" casters, I was able to follow the 2 games I watched completely from start to finish, understand what was going on and follow the strategies the players were going for in both games.
Great job and I look forward to when I finish exams so I can actually watch the whole thing and enjoy the excellent production.
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Player pool is lacking. If kiwi or select don't win it, I'd be very surprised.
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IPL is going to set a new standard as far as production goes.
NASL has the better prize pool and players but the production is terrible.
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On April 22 2011 16:02 kaisr wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2011 15:49 ThaZenith wrote:On April 22 2011 14:40 jiveturkey wrote:
The only thing IPL has over NASL is production value.
The casters aren't as good. The matchups aren't as good. They don't have the stat tracking, standings, win rates vs different races, player profiles, team profiles, etc...
I'm surprised people care so much about things like the background music and the wall behind the casters. Why is that more important than the infrastructure housed on the NASL website and the quality of the matches.
They have some hiccups because they have a less experienced production team, but that can easily and will improve with time.
This hype over IPL is just the spillover of the disappointed from NASL. People are just mad about NASL. Same reason people thought Dreamhack was greatest thing on the face of this Earth; it came after MLG Dallas. Production value is very, very important to attract casual viewers. As are the quality of the casters. I find djWHEAT and TotalBiscuit to be excellent casters, I can't get enough of them Actually, production value is extremely important to pretty much any viewer. I also agree that TotalBiscuit and djWHEAT are phenomenal casters and seem to be getting better at casting and following the action in SC2 with practice. I only watched around 40 minutes of IGN today and it was the best produced stream I've ever seen. I have no idea why people complain about the lack of "analytical" casters, I was able to follow the 2 games I watched completely from start to finish, understand what was going on and follow the strategies the players were going for in both games. Great job and I look forward to when I finish exams so I can actually watch the whole thing and enjoy the excellent production.
I think the main stumbling block for a lot of people is the fact that the casters themselves are not professional players and thus often don't have anything to say strategically that is surprising to them. I feel like as I watch more games I have started to really get into casters like artosis, gretorp, and incontrol just because they tell me things I don't know.
Don't get me wrong I love DjWheat and think he is definitely one of the all time greats but the fact of the matter is he needs a color commentator. Totalbiscuit to me is just unbearable but that is personal opinion. The just need to get cocasters with these guys to make it legit as I am sure has been repeated a million times. The more I think about it the more glad I am that HD requested being partnered with Painuser. Basically a genius move that guarantees an overall more interesting experience simply because Painuser is just a stat king. He has such a solid understanding a focus on detail that he can reveal a lot to experienced viewers like me.
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On April 22 2011 16:07 mentallyafk wrote:
IPL is going to set a new standard as far as production goes.
NASL has the better prize pool and players but the production is terrible.
agree that the nasl has a better prize pool and players. i really feel that were still not getting the best games. people playing on cross server does still affect performance. Also these walkovers are kinda disappointing. I feel like nasl has made several promises and has failed to deliver on numerous occasions. i really hope nasl decides to re-think their approach and make some serious changes.
anyway, this thread is about IPL so i will stop ranting about NASL.
GOGO IPL!!!
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On April 22 2011 15:40 Zeke50100 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2011 14:36 Terranist wrote:On April 22 2011 13:35 Turgid wrote:On April 22 2011 13:26 Terranist wrote:On April 22 2011 13:16 Defacer wrote:On April 22 2011 13:10 Terranist wrote:On April 22 2011 13:01 sermokala wrote:On April 22 2011 12:56 darmousseh wrote:On April 22 2011 12:49 TotalBiscuit wrote:On April 22 2011 12:47 Terranist wrote:
[quote]
it does seem a little obnoxious, but let's be honest here. i watched the first day of IPL and you casted like you were selling starcraft 2 to a bunch of console gamers. i don't have an issue with that because you're bringing a bunch of people into esports but at the same time alienating those of us that really love it enough to stay up till 4 am watching live GSL - the "true fans" Not really. Some of you are alienated, but not all. The noisy few will always come out in opposition of play-by-play casting, but it's the silent majority that are more important. Every caster alienates somebody, it's not worth worrying about and in this case, the IPL was not aimed squarely at TL's demographic anyway, yet still managed to attract and SUSTAIN a significant viewer count from them, so that alone is proof the concept is worth pursuing. The negativity really is rather depressing if ya take it too seriously and it seems some people are more interesting in tearing down the efforts of others all in the name of 'true fandom'. A true fan would celebrate anything that moves eSports forward, I would think. I agree with total biscuit 100%, this kind of league put by IGN is the perfect way to introduce people to sc2 and it's entertaining to listen to. There are plenty of videos with game commentary as opposed to casting, but a tournament is supposed to be about hype and excitement. We can analyze the games later. Watch the MLB, during the season the commentators discuss the game, but the cast always needs someone to bring excitement. Once the world series hits, most of the commentating goes away and it's pure casting because people want to watch something exciting. The majority of people watching are not hardcore players, just ask day9. Good job total biscuit  mmmnmmmnmm I'm getting this werid feeling like we're getting into the same debate of husky vs day9 which really makes me :/ because I like husky and I feel like I'm going against him. just like the day9 vs husky debate, you can still be in both camps. everyone will however find a preference for one or the either. IPL is seemingly being presented merely as training wheels for real SC2. zero analysis, no player thoughts after games, just lots of 'violence' and graphical fluff with very little focus on strategy or tactics. IGN is clearly focusing on a different demographic that will hopefully funnel a ton of people into the scene the same way husky did. strictly judging after today, i would rather watch NASL for the most part. I prefer NASL as well, simply because of the caliber of play. I think the NASL will really start to heat up as the players compete for the first and second seeds and enter "must-win" situations. But I have to admit, there's a lot of little things that the IPL is doing well that the NASL should pick up on. Good production is all about the details. keep in mind that these games were played long ago in order to give the production team enough time to create these pretty overlays and the consequence is that the results are leaked and the entire league spoiled. i wouldn't dare open the JTV chat while watching if i bother to even keep watching. NASL has technical issues that will be ironed out over time but it is a fully functioning league that the purists can get behind and support. i really want it to succeed because they have the right formula when it comes to esports. Maybe I have access to different information than you but as a huge starcraft nerd(i loved those qxschool and stik casts and ancient day9 dailies where he never gets excited about anything) I think your complaints about their being fundamental issues with the IPL are more than just a little ridiculous. I'm not that big on the casting but regarding the games or the player pool or the prizes, have you even been paying attention? These were the dudes they could get out to the studio for the production on the test run. There will be actual qualifiers in future seasons which strikes me as something you SHOULD be supporting as a "true fan" because it promotes players who can demonstrably produce results; no subjectivity or guesswork is needed. The NASL system's qualifier system is extremely limited, even for the people it brings in in season 2. Regarding the spoilers, it's a major issue. This was pointed out to IGN.Alex on SomethingAwful and he had this to say: "The guest account thing where you can schedule times for the players and then go into the files and edit their names to the correct name is great if you're on the same kind of timetable as the TSL. We're wanting to move a little faster and provide more then 2 days of content a week, so it's harder to work that in. It's absolutely something we considered though, and may revisit that idea in the future. It's without a doubt the most secure way to hide results. We will likely be using cloaked maps though next time." spoiler is a massive issue. i find it completely unacceptable that the results for an entire tournament are leaked before the first game even airs. this would never happen to any tournament that takes itself seriously. what happened in IPL is entirely a fundamental error. IPL is also presenting itself wrong by making the players into generic nerds fighting each other like robots. the players themselves give no thoughts or input throughout day 1. no interviews, no discussions, only casters like TB and wheat typecasting them into something that casual gamers can relate with. as a spectator, i like to know more about how player 'X' would have reacted to situation 'Y' and if he regrets playing build 'Z'. that stuff is critical to not only helping people appreciate such a deep game, but giving insight into what makes these players so supremely talented. You haven't actually been on the IPL website, have you? Or have 80% of the videos just not shown up on your screen? Everything you're asking for is right there. Also, the spoiler thing is going to be avoided the next round. One round of spoilers against three walk overs in a week? I'll take the spoilers and just ignore the chat >.<
The ENTIRE tournament was spoiled, not just "One round." I'm sure they will fix it in the future though, and I really hope they do because I have little motivation to watch any matches now.
The production value is pretty slick, definitely love the Win and the stat screen at the end.
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yup, great production quality, good casters and some decent games.
I like the graphics and art and I think its so much better than NASL.
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Player pool seems lacking to make me watch it over NASL even though production quality is amazing. Once NASL figures out the sound and occasional bad editing I won't have any reason to even think about watching IPL instead. Also as much as I have problems with Gretorp's voice sometimes I prefer to have some analysis done. IPL is for different target audience than me, but probably much bigger one so they have high chance of success.
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On April 22 2011 14:40 jiveturkey wrote:
The only thing IPL has over NASL is production value.
The casters aren't as good. The matchups aren't as good. They don't have the stat tracking, standings, win rates vs different races, player profiles, team profiles, etc...
I'm surprised people care so much about things like the background music and the wall behind the casters. Why is that more important than the infrastructure housed on the NASL website and the quality of the matches.
They have some hiccups because they have a less experienced production team, but that can easily and will improve with time.
This hype over IPL is just the spillover of the disappointed from NASL. People are just mad about NASL. Same reason people thought Dreamhack was greatest thing on the face of this Earth; it came after MLG Dallas.
is "matchups aren't as good" code for "no koreans"? imo the best part of the IPL is that it is featuring players i know from the community but don't get to see much in other tournaments. not that every tournament has to be this way, but it's nice to see a tournament that features players who have such a strong presence in the NA scene
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On April 22 2011 15:20 dtz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2011 14:36 Terranist wrote:On April 22 2011 13:35 Turgid wrote:On April 22 2011 13:26 Terranist wrote:On April 22 2011 13:16 Defacer wrote:On April 22 2011 13:10 Terranist wrote:On April 22 2011 13:01 sermokala wrote:On April 22 2011 12:56 darmousseh wrote:On April 22 2011 12:49 TotalBiscuit wrote:On April 22 2011 12:47 Terranist wrote:
[quote]
it does seem a little obnoxious, but let's be honest here. i watched the first day of IPL and you casted like you were selling starcraft 2 to a bunch of console gamers. i don't have an issue with that because you're bringing a bunch of people into esports but at the same time alienating those of us that really love it enough to stay up till 4 am watching live GSL - the "true fans" Not really. Some of you are alienated, but not all. The noisy few will always come out in opposition of play-by-play casting, but it's the silent majority that are more important. Every caster alienates somebody, it's not worth worrying about and in this case, the IPL was not aimed squarely at TL's demographic anyway, yet still managed to attract and SUSTAIN a significant viewer count from them, so that alone is proof the concept is worth pursuing. The negativity really is rather depressing if ya take it too seriously and it seems some people are more interesting in tearing down the efforts of others all in the name of 'true fandom'. A true fan would celebrate anything that moves eSports forward, I would think. I agree with total biscuit 100%, this kind of league put by IGN is the perfect way to introduce people to sc2 and it's entertaining to listen to. There are plenty of videos with game commentary as opposed to casting, but a tournament is supposed to be about hype and excitement. We can analyze the games later. Watch the MLB, during the season the commentators discuss the game, but the cast always needs someone to bring excitement. Once the world series hits, most of the commentating goes away and it's pure casting because people want to watch something exciting. The majority of people watching are not hardcore players, just ask day9. Good job total biscuit mmmnmmmnmm I'm getting this werid feeling like we're getting into the same debate of husky vs day9 which really makes me :/ because I like husky and I feel like I'm going against him. just like the day9 vs husky debate, you can still be in both camps. everyone will however find a preference for one or the either. IPL is seemingly being presented merely as training wheels for real SC2. zero analysis, no player thoughts after games, just lots of 'violence' and graphical fluff with very little focus on strategy or tactics. IGN is clearly focusing on a different demographic that will hopefully funnel a ton of people into the scene the same way husky did. strictly judging after today, i would rather watch NASL for the most part. I prefer NASL as well, simply because of the caliber of play. I think the NASL will really start to heat up as the players compete for the first and second seeds and enter "must-win" situations. But I have to admit, there's a lot of little things that the IPL is doing well that the NASL should pick up on. Good production is all about the details. keep in mind that these games were played long ago in order to give the production team enough time to create these pretty overlays and the consequence is that the results are leaked and the entire league spoiled. i wouldn't dare open the JTV chat while watching if i bother to even keep watching. NASL has technical issues that will be ironed out over time but it is a fully functioning league that the purists can get behind and support. i really want it to succeed because they have the right formula when it comes to esports. Maybe I have access to different information than you but as a huge starcraft nerd(i loved those qxschool and stik casts and ancient day9 dailies where he never gets excited about anything) I think your complaints about their being fundamental issues with the IPL are more than just a little ridiculous. I'm not that big on the casting but regarding the games or the player pool or the prizes, have you even been paying attention? These were the dudes they could get out to the studio for the production on the test run. There will be actual qualifiers in future seasons which strikes me as something you SHOULD be supporting as a "true fan" because it promotes players who can demonstrably produce results; no subjectivity or guesswork is needed. The NASL system's qualifier system is extremely limited, even for the people it brings in in season 2. Regarding the spoilers, it's a major issue. This was pointed out to IGN.Alex on SomethingAwful and he had this to say: "The guest account thing where you can schedule times for the players and then go into the files and edit their names to the correct name is great if you're on the same kind of timetable as the TSL. We're wanting to move a little faster and provide more then 2 days of content a week, so it's harder to work that in. It's absolutely something we considered though, and may revisit that idea in the future. It's without a doubt the most secure way to hide results. We will likely be using cloaked maps though next time." spoiler is a massive issue. i find it completely unacceptable that the results for an entire tournament are leaked before the first game even airs. this would never happen to any tournament that takes itself seriously. what happened in IPL is entirely a fundamental error. IPL is also presenting itself wrong by making the players into generic nerds fighting each other like robots. the players themselves give no thoughts or input throughout day 1. no interviews, no discussions, only casters like TB and wheat typecasting them into something that casual gamers can relate with. as a spectator, i like to know more about how player 'X' would have reacted to situation 'Y' and if he regrets playing build 'Z'. that stuff is critical to not only helping people appreciate such a deep game, but giving insight into what makes these players so supremely talented. Why is the leaking of results a fundamental error? It was caused by negligence and to say it is a fundamental error means it will happen over and over again because it is due to the way they do things. If they use maps who hide results as well as not accidentally posting the results then it won't happen again. Was it a grave error? Sure it was. But it was in no way fundamental And actually the insights that you are asking for are in the website.A lot of players are interviewed in the website very professionally. For example, catz were interviewed about his cheeses and why he does it and does he think it takes less skill. A few other players were also asked about what they think of catz's unorthodox style. In the game today, + Show Spoiler +. By tying the interviews with the game, viewers can understand his mindset in doing so. I think that gives "insight to the players" Oh and i feel that Dreamhack was the best tournament ever. Awesome games , players, productions, casters and the best HOST ever. Regardless of how MLG Dallas went, praises will still be sung about DH invitational.
it's a fundamental error because they didn't have the foresight to think that people can look at match history and deduce what happened over that long period. playing the whole tournament so far in advance just to get a dumb overlay graphic for each game that makes people rave about 'production value' is a stupid error.
i do agree that dreamhack has always been run exceptionally well for a live tournament dating before SC2 and we had to use octoshape lol.
You haven't actually been on the IPL website, have you? Or have 80% of the videos just not shown up on your screen? Everything you're asking for is right there.
Also, the spoiler thing is going to be avoided the next round. One round of spoilers against three walk overs in a week? I'll take the spoilers and just ignore the chat >.<
you haven't actually watched interviews, have you? or have you noticed that the only function each and every one of those videos serve is to hype the league and introduce the players (that we already know). it is not analysis or discussion about the actual game but rather more fluff and promotion.
it's great that they shoot for mass appeal but it makes this tournament into training wheels starcraft league.
in regards to spoilers, the entire bracket was leaked!
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IGN's casting is far better than NASL's. No post game commentary... sometimes talking less is better, and IMO Gretorp and Incontrol have not learned to be terse.
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I was very impressed by IGNs maiden voyage. I'll keep coming back to watch it.
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I don't know about you but im very particular about quality and frame rate. If it's more attractive to the eye, I'll watch it. And if it's pleasing to the ears in quality, I'll listen to it. This is what the iPL has done that NASL needs to do if it wants to gain viewers. And as for the casters, people criticize casters without much more substance than : I want more analysis. I bet you if you put InControl saying the same exact things say djwheat was saying but incontrol just read it out, you would consider the analysis to be fine. People just want faces behind credibility and I think it's silly.
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Anyone else find the way the hd vods come up weird? I mean the sd version comes up perfectly fine, but when you click hd it loads another page in the small window the sd version comes up in. Also for me the next game wouldn't come on after the first when watching in hd.
Other than that, everything looks phenomenal. Great job IGN!
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EPT
